: Always tough to weigh in on these games where it's impossible to look into, as it's not a match you yourself have played recently. Could have been a bad game, but if you feel they were intentionally feeding, you should submit a support ticket.
> [{quoted}](name=Periscope,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=lh8Gk5Fl,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-12-09T05:24:08.891+0000) > > Always tough to weigh in on these games where it's impossible to look into, as it's not a match you yourself have played recently. Could have been a bad game, but if you feel they were intentionally feeding, you should submit a support ticket. riotgame's priority is language, this is due to tencent, and LOL they changed the ''about us'' description on tencent site, it used to say something about silencing people by controlling the internet..... now it doesn't {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}} https://www.tencent.com/en-us/about.html#about-con-1
: > [{quoted}](name=Miles The Man,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=6bAGvBJb,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-12-03T10:57:00.041+0000) > > You should take this to player support. Make sure an email was actually sent to you from them. I don't know Riot's official addresses. Yeah, I did so now thanks. Just thought someone here might know which ones are official riot adresses and which aren't (also to warn other players in case this is a scam that is being sent out to many).
> [{quoted}](name=Leopanther,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=6bAGvBJb,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-12-03T11:06:52.231+0000) > > Yeah, I did so now thanks. Just thought someone here might know which ones are official riot adresses and which aren't (also to warn other players in case this is a scam that is being sent out to many). riotgames is owned by tencent, and they are scammers themselves, so any mail from riotgames is scam .o.
SSG Elmo (NA)
: I refuse to change my username login.
got mine from before 2009, fascist riot is forcing me to change it... well i refuse, ill just troll hard till jan 1 2020 and quit lol permanently, heil tencent! right? hope tencent seizes to exist. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-rainbows}}
: > [{quoted}](name=DeathBurst,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2tZaTY50,comment-id=000600010000000000000000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-11-26T16:49:36.521+0000) > > Yeah, OK, so you admit there ARE two numbers and they are not ALWAYS the same. Cool, that's progress. > no, what i meant is that the system matches you with players above your MMR, if you win that proves your MMR level isn't correct, which is why your MMR can skyrocket with such fixed matchmaking, there are no 2 numbers, you get win streaks and lose streaks, this proves the system is constantly trying to force a 50% winrate, you win too much you will lose alot after, you lose too much you will win alot after. > That's circular reasoning. You say the matchmaking is bad because MMR always match Rank, but since Rank isn't always matched, it proves matchmaking is bad. Yeah, no it doesn't prove anything, because if you suppose your conclusion in the beginning, of course you conclude your conclusion in the end. > > Also, you just said yourself two lines above that MMR and Rank are not always the same in extreme cases. Is it really so hard to imagine that between the obvious extreme cases even you agree exist and the situation where MMR and Rank are perfectly aligned, there is also a middle-ground, where there is some noticeable-but-not-extreme difference? > > Alternative: MMR represents your true skill (as accurately as the system can measure it), and to "ensure proper matchmaking" you're always matched based on MMR, no matter what your Rank is. > you seem a little confused O.o, 1 its not circular reasoning, your MMR matches your rank, with saying ''your MMR doesn't match OTHER players rank'' i mean't that the MMS places you against players that have a significantly higher MMR than you, therefore you will see platinums in your silver games, the MMS at all times is trying to force a similar total MMR level between both teams. 2 i never said such a thing. (see above) 3 MMR = ranks, its simple, lets say that to be in silver rank you need to have an MMR of 1300-1500 and to get to gold you need an MMR of 1600-1800, based on your MMR you are placed between V and I before entering a new tier, they will always match your MMR with your rank, or the MMS will be an even bigger mess..... > No, the opposite, your Rank is lower than your MMR. And, as I said two times already, in the pop-up when you finish your Placement Series. Are you even reading what I'm writing, or just disagreeing on principles? > they never said that either.... they said that you can be PLACED in a lower rank with a SOFT RESET, meaning your MMR level will be matched with your rank, you need to win some to get back to your said MMR/rank. > That being said, if the difference can exist in one direction, it can obviously exist in the other one, even if it's rarer. Someone stuck at 0 LP in division 4 with a big losing streak will have a MMR below their Rank. > actually the MMR is pretty wide untill you hit platinum, iron/bronze and gold can queue with 3 different tiers, silver can be queued with 4 different tiers, MMR can't drop below one's rank, there would be no point to it either untill platinum..... its what the protection is for, why else would you be protected from dropping a tier? since the MMS still believes your MMR is within said rank, so its basically a MMR drop protection, your LP gain/loss is directly linked to your MMR, this becomes more evident at master tier. > The system is designed to match MMR to Rank... **in the end**. AFTER someone has done all their grinding. THAT is how they force you to play. It **starts** different, and yes, it is indeed designed to match... but **at the end**. NOT instantly, magically, at all times. Only in the end. Which is why it's normal someone with <50 games (still climbing, the two do not match yet) is matched with people from a higher Rank who have >400 games (climb has ended, the two are actually in sync). > you don't need to grind, the system places you based on behaviour in a tier and division, that matches your MMR level, it never starts different, you need to play 10 matches to get an MMR/tier/division placement O.o, the MMS however can match you against players below or above your MMR, but that doesn't mean your MMR doesnt match your rank, you will still gradually rank up, this coincides with the gradual MMR raise..... > Alternative: if you win too much, the system realizes you're better than it thought and updates its knowledge about you. It **was** giving you too easy games, so now it gives you a bit harder games that should be more fair now. > > It doesn't place you **too** high, it places you higher, hopefully at the right level now. > And it's not "to adjust winrate", it's simply for your *future* games to be fair. It doesn't care about your winrate. > no, you need to learn to read, my god, you misunderstand so much .-., riot litterally said that the MMS can match you with higher or lower ranked players based on a win or lose streak, the MMS isn't matching you higher or lower to make a fair game, but to adjust your winrate, it isn't 100% accurate though, https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752954-Matchmaking-Guide , riot beats around the bush there -.-, they purposfully state ''opponnets losing'' rather than saying ''you can be matched against lower tier opponents based on a lose streak'' the MMS is designed to force a 50%+-1% winrate for both teams, so yeah its designed to keep players at 50% win rate simply to pretend like the MMS is working just fine -.-, just like the fascist feedback system, its all so dysfunctional. > I mean, I don't particularly support OP.GG, which is why **I asked you what site you use**. > > But anyway, I'm not sure why you were matched with those Bronze. Sometimes the system just does mistakes. Honest, good faith mistakes. Is it so hard to imagine that Riot Games, the company that made spaghetti code into a meme, can make a match-making based on fair principles, and just a little buggy at times? > > Also, these guys were in a Duo, and as I already mentioned, Duo are matched higher, to compensate the fact they (should) have better coordination than random Solos. And they also have less than 20 games each. It's still a bit weird to have them matched with you, but it's not completely absurd. > lol its completely absurd, it makes stomp games, i'll spell it out for you : 1 player has no MMR and has to play 10 matches 2 player wins X consecutive matches in X tiers iron, bronze and or silver 3 player gets matched with gold players 4 player loses X matches in gold 5 player gets placed in bronze.... O___O how is that not absurd? > OF COURSE we can tell. If all your games are perfectly fair and you have a 50% chance to win each game individually, then you winrate overall will be 50%. > > Imagine a coin and you're playing head or tail. It's a perfect coin, with 50% chance to land on head for each throw. What will be your overall proportion of heads? 50%. Just like your winrate in a perfect system. wrong, even if you have a 50% winrate, if you win all matches your winrate is 100%, if you lose all matches your winrate is 0%, any between 0%-100% is possible even with a 50% win chance thats calculated by a system -.-, you can throw 100 coins, if all these coins hit tails you have a 0% winrate, even though you had a 50% winrate, the only way to get to a 50% winrate, is to win and lose a similar amount, this is rare actually so riot ''fixed'' it, with every match there is a winner and a loser, if you are on the winning or losing team all the time, it becomes pretty evident, you can't control the outcome with a fair match, but you can with unfair match making.
> [{quoted}](name=DeathBurst,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2tZaTY50,comment-id=00060001000000000000000000000000000000000001000000000002,timestamp=2019-11-29T16:50:21.835+0000) > > Yes, it's "possible", in fact, as I just said above myself, it's 1-chance-in-a-hundred-billions-billions-billions possible. That's not a typo, that's 3 billions in a chain. So no, it's not *actually* possible. if its possible its possible.
: > everyone thought the world was flat, only one man knew the truth, more often than not a single person is right, rather than everyone, so yeah its often the world thats wrong. That's a myth. Most of the scientific community at the time knew the world was round. It was shown by the Greeks a thousand years before, and opposition to Colombus wasn't about Earth being round or flat, rather it was about its size and where humans lived. See there, for instance: http://dhayton.haverford.edu/blog/2014/12/02/washington-irvings-columbus-and-the-flat-earth/
> [{quoted}](name=DeathBurst,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2tZaTY50,comment-id=0006000100000000000000000000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-11-29T17:09:29.517+0000) > > That's a myth. Most of the scientific community at the time knew the world was round. It was shown by the Greeks a thousand years before, and opposition to Colombus wasn't about Earth being round or flat, rather it was about its size and where humans lived. > > See there, for instance: http://dhayton.haverford.edu/blog/2014/12/02/washington-irvings-columbus-and-the-flat-earth/ lol not a myth, most people certainly believed the earth was flat, most sailers did, the church did, the common folk did, aristocracy did, and the scolars in those days were divided, they claimed he would sail off the earth, but he didn't believe it, just because about 2000 years ago it was ''allegedly'' already proven the earth is round, doesn't mean everyone knew, or believed it in 1400, i said ''everyone thought the world was flat, only one man knew the truth'' there is NO evidence that the ancient greeks knew the earth was round..... especially since nasa believes this, and they consist of pretentious mentally ill pseudo scientists, it appears leftwingers praise this fraud aristotle that couldn't even tell woman and men have an equal amount of teeth {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}, prior to him were many pilosophers but no scientists, its even possible the ancient egyptians already knew and had proven the earth was round, like i said there is no evidence that a round earth was proven in ancient greek, just mentionings of a ''spherical earth'', there is no evidence that people in 1400 actually believed in a round earth either, in contrary, there is evidence the church and pirates believed in a flat earth, not only that, its funny how you claim and others, that the majority of people in medieval times thought the earth was round, since the only ones that said so were the educated or scholars/philosophers, and i think we all know education was and still is for the rich......, heck and even so, its still unknown if all of them believed the earth is round, what you said and i quote ''Most of the scientific community'', thats not the whole world {{sticker:sg-ahri-2}} besides i was talking about juan sebastian elcano.
: > [{quoted}](name=DeathBurst,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2tZaTY50,comment-id=000600010000000000000000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-11-26T16:49:36.521+0000) > > Yeah, OK, so you admit there ARE two numbers and they are not ALWAYS the same. Cool, that's progress. > no, what i meant is that the system matches you with players above your MMR, if you win that proves your MMR level isn't correct, which is why your MMR can skyrocket with such fixed matchmaking, there are no 2 numbers, you get win streaks and lose streaks, this proves the system is constantly trying to force a 50% winrate, you win too much you will lose alot after, you lose too much you will win alot after. > That's circular reasoning. You say the matchmaking is bad because MMR always match Rank, but since Rank isn't always matched, it proves matchmaking is bad. Yeah, no it doesn't prove anything, because if you suppose your conclusion in the beginning, of course you conclude your conclusion in the end. > > Also, you just said yourself two lines above that MMR and Rank are not always the same in extreme cases. Is it really so hard to imagine that between the obvious extreme cases even you agree exist and the situation where MMR and Rank are perfectly aligned, there is also a middle-ground, where there is some noticeable-but-not-extreme difference? > > Alternative: MMR represents your true skill (as accurately as the system can measure it), and to "ensure proper matchmaking" you're always matched based on MMR, no matter what your Rank is. > you seem a little confused O.o, 1 its not circular reasoning, your MMR matches your rank, with saying ''your MMR doesn't match OTHER players rank'' i mean't that the MMS places you against players that have a significantly higher MMR than you, therefore you will see platinums in your silver games, the MMS at all times is trying to force a similar total MMR level between both teams. 2 i never said such a thing. (see above) 3 MMR = ranks, its simple, lets say that to be in silver rank you need to have an MMR of 1300-1500 and to get to gold you need an MMR of 1600-1800, based on your MMR you are placed between V and I before entering a new tier, they will always match your MMR with your rank, or the MMS will be an even bigger mess..... > No, the opposite, your Rank is lower than your MMR. And, as I said two times already, in the pop-up when you finish your Placement Series. Are you even reading what I'm writing, or just disagreeing on principles? > they never said that either.... they said that you can be PLACED in a lower rank with a SOFT RESET, meaning your MMR level will be matched with your rank, you need to win some to get back to your said MMR/rank. > That being said, if the difference can exist in one direction, it can obviously exist in the other one, even if it's rarer. Someone stuck at 0 LP in division 4 with a big losing streak will have a MMR below their Rank. > actually the MMR is pretty wide untill you hit platinum, iron/bronze and gold can queue with 3 different tiers, silver can be queued with 4 different tiers, MMR can't drop below one's rank, there would be no point to it either untill platinum..... its what the protection is for, why else would you be protected from dropping a tier? since the MMS still believes your MMR is within said rank, so its basically a MMR drop protection, your LP gain/loss is directly linked to your MMR, this becomes more evident at master tier. > The system is designed to match MMR to Rank... **in the end**. AFTER someone has done all their grinding. THAT is how they force you to play. It **starts** different, and yes, it is indeed designed to match... but **at the end**. NOT instantly, magically, at all times. Only in the end. Which is why it's normal someone with <50 games (still climbing, the two do not match yet) is matched with people from a higher Rank who have >400 games (climb has ended, the two are actually in sync). > you don't need to grind, the system places you based on behaviour in a tier and division, that matches your MMR level, it never starts different, you need to play 10 matches to get an MMR/tier/division placement O.o, the MMS however can match you against players below or above your MMR, but that doesn't mean your MMR doesnt match your rank, you will still gradually rank up, this coincides with the gradual MMR raise..... > Alternative: if you win too much, the system realizes you're better than it thought and updates its knowledge about you. It **was** giving you too easy games, so now it gives you a bit harder games that should be more fair now. > > It doesn't place you **too** high, it places you higher, hopefully at the right level now. > And it's not "to adjust winrate", it's simply for your *future* games to be fair. It doesn't care about your winrate. > no, you need to learn to read, my god, you misunderstand so much .-., riot litterally said that the MMS can match you with higher or lower ranked players based on a win or lose streak, the MMS isn't matching you higher or lower to make a fair game, but to adjust your winrate, it isn't 100% accurate though, https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752954-Matchmaking-Guide , riot beats around the bush there -.-, they purposfully state ''opponnets losing'' rather than saying ''you can be matched against lower tier opponents based on a lose streak'' the MMS is designed to force a 50%+-1% winrate for both teams, so yeah its designed to keep players at 50% win rate simply to pretend like the MMS is working just fine -.-, just like the fascist feedback system, its all so dysfunctional. > I mean, I don't particularly support OP.GG, which is why **I asked you what site you use**. > > But anyway, I'm not sure why you were matched with those Bronze. Sometimes the system just does mistakes. Honest, good faith mistakes. Is it so hard to imagine that Riot Games, the company that made spaghetti code into a meme, can make a match-making based on fair principles, and just a little buggy at times? > > Also, these guys were in a Duo, and as I already mentioned, Duo are matched higher, to compensate the fact they (should) have better coordination than random Solos. And they also have less than 20 games each. It's still a bit weird to have them matched with you, but it's not completely absurd. > lol its completely absurd, it makes stomp games, i'll spell it out for you : 1 player has no MMR and has to play 10 matches 2 player wins X consecutive matches in X tiers iron, bronze and or silver 3 player gets matched with gold players 4 player loses X matches in gold 5 player gets placed in bronze.... O___O how is that not absurd? > OF COURSE we can tell. If all your games are perfectly fair and you have a 50% chance to win each game individually, then you winrate overall will be 50%. > > Imagine a coin and you're playing head or tail. It's a perfect coin, with 50% chance to land on head for each throw. What will be your overall proportion of heads? 50%. Just like your winrate in a perfect system. wrong, even if you have a 50% winrate, if you win all matches your winrate is 100%, if you lose all matches your winrate is 0%, any between 0%-100% is possible even with a 50% win chance thats calculated by a system -.-, you can throw 100 coins, if all these coins hit tails you have a 0% winrate, even though you had a 50% winrate, the only way to get to a 50% winrate, is to win and lose a similar amount, this is rare actually so riot ''fixed'' it, with every match there is a winner and a loser, if you are on the winning or losing team all the time, it becomes pretty evident, you can't control the outcome with a fair match, but you can with unfair match making.
> [{quoted}](name=DeathBurst,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2tZaTY50,comment-id=00060001000000000000000000000000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-28T14:35:07.751+0000) > > You have no bloody idea of how probabilities work. > > No, you can't realistically throw a 100 balanced coins and get 100 heads. There is a one in 10^30 chances. > > No, it's not "rare" to get a close to 50% overall result with 50% chance for every throw. > With 100 throws, half the time you're between 47% and 53%. > With 400 throws, half the time you're between 48.5% and 51.5%. > > I give up, it's not the MMS that you need to understand, it's probabilities. > > No, I'm not confused. Yes, I do know how to read. And no, Riot isn't rigging matches. > > Have a good day. probablities are just that, guesses, they are not set in stone, its still possible to throw 100 coins and get 100 heads...... so even if you THINK throwing 100 coins ends up with a 50% heads and tails, it doesn't mean it will..... aka, just because its likely to happen, doesn't mean it will happen, lel believe whatever you want, riot is definitely rigging matches, and yes you are confused, and yes you need to learn how to read. have a good day too.
: > [{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2tZaTY50,comment-id=000600010000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-26T10:14:02.534+0000) > > normal and ranked MMR are seperate, you gained alot of MMR due to winning against high ranked players, this only proves the system is skewed...., your rank will have to match your MMR at all times to ensure correct matchmaking. The way I see it, i basically improved my level in Normals playing with and against stronger players (which didn't change my Ranked MMR). But playing Ranked again and winning easily made my Ranked MMR improve really fast, faster than any LP win could compensate for (and if you factor the fact that they say that after placements you get under-ranked, the difference was quite high indeed). I'm not sure that at that point queuing me with Bronzes when I am somewhat Gold level would be fun for anyone (I don't mind a stomp or two, but it would get me lazy quite fast ^^). Besides, it makes sense to have a (more or less) slight difference between MMR and Rank. The goal for Riot is to balance their games with estimated level (admitedly at least). The way that they estimate a player's level is through MMR. And if they want people to play a lot, they can't just put people at their exact level directly, because then there would be almost no progression. So the solution is to put players at a lower Rank, and reward wins and loses based on the difference between MMR and Rank. If you admit that MMR and Rank are not correlated, there is no issue with having Rank difference in a game, and you just have to hope that the MMR estimation is somewhat accurate (which is all that matters). Another way to see that MMR and LP/Rank are not directly linked is the fact that you can lose LP without losing MMR (by dodging games).
> [{quoted}](name=graindesable,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2tZaTY50,comment-id=00060001000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-11-28T07:43:15.570+0000) > > On that, wiki disagrees (https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Queue_dodging#Ranked_solo_queue_game_penalties , "You will not lose MMR for queue dodging"), as well as every single youtuber/streamer/you name it at plat+ ELO who make "How to climb fast" content, who all say as well that dodging won't make your MMR decrease. > Another proof that MMR and Rank are different is LP decay when you're Diamond+ : https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/League_system#League_Points_inactivity_decay > Relevant sentences : > "Falling at 0 LP due to decay will automatically demote the player. " -> It affects Rank > "The LP decay does not affect MMR. " -> Yet it does not affect MMR > try dodging whilst in promos, you will lose MMR because you LOSE a game, so yeah dodging makes you lose MMR, where did riot state dodging doesn't make you lose MMR? riot said win or lose increases or decreases your MMR, and a dodge is considered a loss...., rank = MMR, meaning it would be outrageous to be platinum and have a MATCHMAKING RATING for bronze O.o and vice versa, so its LOGICAL that rank and MMR are related..... or MM would be an even bigger mess .-. and if rank does not affect MMR, than i guess it won't matter if you are platinum or diamond or master or challenger from that point on..... i'm just saying.... you are being illogical, you litteraly say that a platinum can have the MMR of a challenger without being challenger {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}} no offense but the ENTIRE MMS is based on MMR not rank, your MMR is translated to a RANK get it? > At that point, it seems that everyone disagrees with you on the fact that MMR is the same as Rank, and if the world disgrees with you, it's not always the world that's mistaken ;) everyone thought the world was flat, only one man knew the truth, more often than not a single person is right, rather than everyone, so yeah its often the world thats wrong.
: > the only way to exceed your MMR [...] Yeah, OK, so you admit there ARE two numbers and they are not ALWAYS the same. Cool, that's progress. > MMR will always match rank in order to ensure proper matchmaking That's circular reasoning. You say the matchmaking is bad because MMR always match Rank, but since Rank isn't always matched, it proves matchmaking is bad. Yeah, no it doesn't prove anything, because if you suppose your conclusion in the beginning, of course you conclude your conclusion in the end. Also, you just said yourself two lines above that MMR and Rank are not always the same in extreme cases. Is it really so hard to imagine that between the obvious extreme cases even you agree exist and the situation where MMR and Rank are perfectly aligned, there is also a middle-ground, where there is some noticeable-but-not-extreme difference? Alternative: MMR represents your true skill (as accurately as the system can measure it), and to "ensure proper matchmaking" you're always matched based on MMR, no matter what your Rank is. > your MMR isnt lower than your rank ever.... where did riot state that? No, the opposite, your Rank is lower than your MMR. And, as I said two times already, in the pop-up when you finish your Placement Series. Are you even reading what I'm writing, or just disagreeing on principles? That being said, if the difference can exist in one direction, it can obviously exist in the other one, even if it's rarer. Someone stuck at 0 LP in division 4 with a big losing streak will have a MMR below their Rank. > the system is designed to match MMR to rank The system is designed to match MMR to Rank... **in the end**. AFTER someone has done all their grinding. THAT is how they force you to play. It **starts** different, and yes, it is indeed designed to match... but **at the end**. NOT instantly, magically, at all times. Only in the end. Which is why it's normal someone with <50 games (still climbing, the two do not match yet) is matched with people from a higher Rank who have >400 games (climb has ended, the two are actually in sync). > so if you win too much the system places you too high to adjust winrate Alternative: if you win too much, the system realizes you're better than it thought and updates its knowledge about you. It **was** giving you too easy games, so now it gives you a bit harder games that should be more fair now. It doesn't place you **too** high, it places you higher, hopefully at the right level now. And it's not "to adjust winrate", it's simply for your *future* games to be fair. It doesn't care about your winrate. > lel i checked it turns out the site is unreliable, I mean, I don't particularly support OP.GG, which is why **I asked you what site you use**. But anyway, I'm not sure why you were matched with those Bronze. Sometimes the system just does mistakes. Honest, good faith mistakes. Is it so hard to imagine that Riot Games, the company that made spaghetti code into a meme, can make a match-making based on fair principles, and just a little buggy at times? Also, these guys were in a Duo, and as I already mentioned, Duo are matched higher, to compensate the fact they (should) have better coordination than random Solos. And they also have less than 20 games each. It's still a bit weird to have them matched with you, but it's not completely absurd. > no one can tell. OF COURSE we can tell. If all your games are perfectly fair and you have a 50% chance to win each game individually, then you winrate overall will be 50%. Imagine a coin and you're playing head or tail. It's a perfect coin, with 50% chance to land on head for each throw. What will be your overall proportion of heads? 50%. Just like your winrate in a perfect system.
> [{quoted}](name=DeathBurst,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2tZaTY50,comment-id=000600010000000000000000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-11-26T16:49:36.521+0000) > > Yeah, OK, so you admit there ARE two numbers and they are not ALWAYS the same. Cool, that's progress. > no, what i meant is that the system matches you with players above your MMR, if you win that proves your MMR level isn't correct, which is why your MMR can skyrocket with such fixed matchmaking, there are no 2 numbers, you get win streaks and lose streaks, this proves the system is constantly trying to force a 50% winrate, you win too much you will lose alot after, you lose too much you will win alot after. > That's circular reasoning. You say the matchmaking is bad because MMR always match Rank, but since Rank isn't always matched, it proves matchmaking is bad. Yeah, no it doesn't prove anything, because if you suppose your conclusion in the beginning, of course you conclude your conclusion in the end. > > Also, you just said yourself two lines above that MMR and Rank are not always the same in extreme cases. Is it really so hard to imagine that between the obvious extreme cases even you agree exist and the situation where MMR and Rank are perfectly aligned, there is also a middle-ground, where there is some noticeable-but-not-extreme difference? > > Alternative: MMR represents your true skill (as accurately as the system can measure it), and to "ensure proper matchmaking" you're always matched based on MMR, no matter what your Rank is. > you seem a little confused O.o, 1 its not circular reasoning, your MMR matches your rank, with saying ''your MMR doesn't match OTHER players rank'' i mean't that the MMS places you against players that have a significantly higher MMR than you, therefore you will see platinums in your silver games, the MMS at all times is trying to force a similar total MMR level between both teams. 2 i never said such a thing. (see above) 3 MMR = ranks, its simple, lets say that to be in silver rank you need to have an MMR of 1300-1500 and to get to gold you need an MMR of 1600-1800, based on your MMR you are placed between V and I before entering a new tier, they will always match your MMR with your rank, or the MMS will be an even bigger mess..... > No, the opposite, your Rank is lower than your MMR. And, as I said two times already, in the pop-up when you finish your Placement Series. Are you even reading what I'm writing, or just disagreeing on principles? > they never said that either.... they said that you can be PLACED in a lower rank with a SOFT RESET, meaning your MMR level will be matched with your rank, you need to win some to get back to your said MMR/rank. > That being said, if the difference can exist in one direction, it can obviously exist in the other one, even if it's rarer. Someone stuck at 0 LP in division 4 with a big losing streak will have a MMR below their Rank. > actually the MMR is pretty wide untill you hit platinum, iron/bronze and gold can queue with 3 different tiers, silver can be queued with 4 different tiers, MMR can't drop below one's rank, there would be no point to it either untill platinum..... its what the protection is for, why else would you be protected from dropping a tier? since the MMS still believes your MMR is within said rank, so its basically a MMR drop protection, your LP gain/loss is directly linked to your MMR, this becomes more evident at master tier. > The system is designed to match MMR to Rank... **in the end**. AFTER someone has done all their grinding. THAT is how they force you to play. It **starts** different, and yes, it is indeed designed to match... but **at the end**. NOT instantly, magically, at all times. Only in the end. Which is why it's normal someone with <50 games (still climbing, the two do not match yet) is matched with people from a higher Rank who have >400 games (climb has ended, the two are actually in sync). > you don't need to grind, the system places you based on behaviour in a tier and division, that matches your MMR level, it never starts different, you need to play 10 matches to get an MMR/tier/division placement O.o, the MMS however can match you against players below or above your MMR, but that doesn't mean your MMR doesnt match your rank, you will still gradually rank up, this coincides with the gradual MMR raise..... > Alternative: if you win too much, the system realizes you're better than it thought and updates its knowledge about you. It **was** giving you too easy games, so now it gives you a bit harder games that should be more fair now. > > It doesn't place you **too** high, it places you higher, hopefully at the right level now. > And it's not "to adjust winrate", it's simply for your *future* games to be fair. It doesn't care about your winrate. > no, you need to learn to read, my god, you misunderstand so much .-., riot litterally said that the MMS can match you with higher or lower ranked players based on a win or lose streak, the MMS isn't matching you higher or lower to make a fair game, but to adjust your winrate, it isn't 100% accurate though, https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752954-Matchmaking-Guide , riot beats around the bush there -.-, they purposfully state ''opponnets losing'' rather than saying ''you can be matched against lower tier opponents based on a lose streak'' the MMS is designed to force a 50%+-1% winrate for both teams, so yeah its designed to keep players at 50% win rate simply to pretend like the MMS is working just fine -.-, just like the fascist feedback system, its all so dysfunctional. > I mean, I don't particularly support OP.GG, which is why **I asked you what site you use**. > > But anyway, I'm not sure why you were matched with those Bronze. Sometimes the system just does mistakes. Honest, good faith mistakes. Is it so hard to imagine that Riot Games, the company that made spaghetti code into a meme, can make a match-making based on fair principles, and just a little buggy at times? > > Also, these guys were in a Duo, and as I already mentioned, Duo are matched higher, to compensate the fact they (should) have better coordination than random Solos. And they also have less than 20 games each. It's still a bit weird to have them matched with you, but it's not completely absurd. > lol its completely absurd, it makes stomp games, i'll spell it out for you : 1 player has no MMR and has to play 10 matches 2 player wins X consecutive matches in X tiers iron, bronze and or silver 3 player gets matched with gold players 4 player loses X matches in gold 5 player gets placed in bronze.... O___O how is that not absurd? > OF COURSE we can tell. If all your games are perfectly fair and you have a 50% chance to win each game individually, then you winrate overall will be 50%. > > Imagine a coin and you're playing head or tail. It's a perfect coin, with 50% chance to land on head for each throw. What will be your overall proportion of heads? 50%. Just like your winrate in a perfect system. wrong, even if you have a 50% winrate, if you win all matches your winrate is 100%, if you lose all matches your winrate is 0%, any between 0%-100% is possible even with a 50% win chance thats calculated by a system -.-, you can throw 100 coins, if all these coins hit tails you have a 0% winrate, even though you had a 50% winrate, the only way to get to a 50% winrate, is to win and lose a similar amount, this is rare actually so riot ''fixed'' it, with every match there is a winner and a loser, if you are on the winning or losing team all the time, it becomes pretty evident, you can't control the outcome with a fair match, but you can with unfair match making.
: > [{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2tZaTY50,comment-id=000600010000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-26T10:14:02.534+0000) > > normal and ranked MMR are seperate, you gained alot of MMR due to winning against high ranked players, this only proves the system is skewed...., your rank will have to match your MMR at all times to ensure correct matchmaking. The way I see it, i basically improved my level in Normals playing with and against stronger players (which didn't change my Ranked MMR). But playing Ranked again and winning easily made my Ranked MMR improve really fast, faster than any LP win could compensate for (and if you factor the fact that they say that after placements you get under-ranked, the difference was quite high indeed). I'm not sure that at that point queuing me with Bronzes when I am somewhat Gold level would be fun for anyone (I don't mind a stomp or two, but it would get me lazy quite fast ^^). Besides, it makes sense to have a (more or less) slight difference between MMR and Rank. The goal for Riot is to balance their games with estimated level (admitedly at least). The way that they estimate a player's level is through MMR. And if they want people to play a lot, they can't just put people at their exact level directly, because then there would be almost no progression. So the solution is to put players at a lower Rank, and reward wins and loses based on the difference between MMR and Rank. If you admit that MMR and Rank are not correlated, there is no issue with having Rank difference in a game, and you just have to hope that the MMR estimation is somewhat accurate (which is all that matters). Another way to see that MMR and LP/Rank are not directly linked is the fact that you can lose LP without losing MMR (by dodging games).
> [{quoted}](name=graindesable,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2tZaTY50,comment-id=0006000100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-26T16:52:57.319+0000) > > The way I see it, i basically improved my level in Normals playing with and against stronger players (which didn't change my Ranked MMR). But playing Ranked again and winning easily made my Ranked MMR improve really fast, faster than any LP win could compensate for (and if you factor the fact that they say that after placements you get under-ranked, the difference was quite high indeed). > I'm not sure that at that point queuing me with Bronzes when I am somewhat Gold level would be fun for anyone (I don't mind a stomp or two, but it would get me lazy quite fast ^^). > > Besides, it makes sense to have a (more or less) slight difference between MMR and Rank. > The goal for Riot is to balance their games with estimated level (admitedly at least). > The way that they estimate a player's level is through MMR. > And if they want people to play a lot, they can't just put people at their exact level directly, because then there would be almost no progression. > So the solution is to put players at a lower Rank, and reward wins and loses based on the difference between MMR and Rank. > If you admit that MMR and Rank are not correlated, there is no issue with having Rank difference in a game, and you just have to hope that the MMR estimation is somewhat accurate (which is all that matters). > > Another way to see that MMR and LP/Rank are not directly linked is the fact that you can lose LP without losing MMR (by dodging games). any loss lowers MMR...... a dodge is considered a loss, MMR stands for matchmaking rating, this determines the skill level of a player, and so does rank..... both terms are synomyn to one another, they are the same, the thing is though that rank isn't counted but MMR is, basically your MMR is translated to a rank, so that players know their skill level properly, there is NO difference.
: > 3 your MMR level matches the rank 4 you win or lose matches and your MMR level drops or raises 5 this ensures your MMR is ALWAYS within the correct tier Except there are promo series, and demotion shields, and a lot of other subtleties like that that can prevent your Rank from following while your MMR is still moving in the background. Similarly, if you have a winrate very far from 50%, your MMR will climb faster than your Rank, and if you are, say, Silver2 with 65% winrate, you will already be matched in Gold3 games (meaning against AND ALSO WITH other Gold3 players) or something like that. And last but not least, Riot **tells you explicitly** when you finish your placement series that your Rank is set lower than your MMR to force you to play over the season and not just do your 10 placement games and never touch the game again for a year. **THAT's how they force you to play.** Not by forcing you to a 50% winrate with rigged matches. Just by adding on purpose a difference between your MMR and your Rank, and forcing you to grind to get your Rank back in sync. > not on my team, against me. CTRL+F doesn't choose in which team it finds the word. There isn't a single Bronze player in any of the last 10 games on the page I linked. I don't know where you are checking, but it doesn't appear on my side.... > how is bronze MMR close to gold MMR? It isn't. And again: I can't see a single Bronze. _____ But seriously. Forget the real system for a couple minutes. Imagine a perfect, ideal system, who can predict everything, who can guess who will AFK and all. Really, a perfect system. And in this perfect system, which always gives fair games to everyone, and never rigs anything in anyway, what will everyone's winrate be?
> [{quoted}](name=DeathBurst,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2tZaTY50,comment-id=0006000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-25T14:45:19.492+0000) > > 4 you win or lose matches and your MMR level drops or raises > 5 this ensures your MMR is ALWAYS within the correct tier > > Except there are promo series, and demotion shields, and a lot of other subtleties like that that can prevent your Rank from following while your MMR is still moving in the background. Similarly, if you have a winrate very far from 50%, your MMR will climb faster than your Rank, and if you are, say, Silver2 with 65% winrate, you will already be matched in Gold3 games (meaning against AND ALSO WITH other Gold3 players) or something like that. > > And last but not least, Riot **tells you explicitly** when you finish your placement series that your Rank is set lower than your MMR to force you to play over the season and not just do your 10 placement games and never touch the game again for a year. > > **THAT's how they force you to play.** Not by forcing you to a 50% winrate with rigged matches. Just by adding on purpose a difference between your MMR and your Rank, and forcing you to grind to get your Rank back in sync. > no, the only way to exceed your MMR in your current rank, is to be matched against higher ranked players and you winning, but then you'd most likely be skipping promos as well, MMR will always match rank in order to ensure proper matchmaking, and yet the matchmaking is bad ,o, , and the system actually places anyone on a winstreak higher than their rank btw as i stated before, this has nothing to do with your current MMR, your MMR will however be adjusted to your rank eventually, your MMR isnt lower than your rank ever.... where did riot state that? its simple, the system is designed to match MMR to rank so if you win too much the system places you too high to adjust winrate, and if you lose to much the system will place you lower to adjust winrate, its all to keep the 50% winrate and balance the MMR to the rank, its skewed :/ > CTRL+F doesn't choose in which team it finds the word. There isn't a single Bronze player in any of the last 10 games on the page I linked. I don't know where you are checking, but it doesn't appear on my side.... > lel i checked it turns out the site is unreliable, according to the site i went from gold IV to silver I to gold IV without losing O.o around 9-8 days ago today at 26 th of the 11th month, 8 days ago the varus and ezreal in the same team are stated as lvl 35 and lvl 37, but when you click on the varus and go to the match in his history you will see bronze, the ezreal one still says lvl 35 at that match O.o (i have a kdr of 1/5/14 as a zilean in that match. > It isn't. And again: I can't see a single Bronze. > _____ > > But seriously. Forget the real system for a couple minutes. Imagine a perfect, ideal system, who can predict everything, who can guess who will AFK and all. Really, a perfect system. And in this perfect system, which always gives fair games to everyone, and never rigs anything in anyway, what will everyone's winrate be? no one can tell.
: One way to see the fact that MMR isn't the same as Rank is the LP you gain/lose at the end of the games. Speaking from experience, i have played a bit in the early season after a long League break, and was placed in Bronze. And I more or less didn't play Ranked until about a month ago, because I wanted that free skin. And when I started back, after playing a lot in Normal with Gold/Plat friends, against Silver to Plat players, My level was likely around high Silver/Low Gold. So when I got back to Ranked, pretty early I got queued against low Gold players, even while being high Bronze myself. And wins would get me around 34 LP, with loses costing me 11 LP, because I had a MMR around low Gold, and a Rank at Bronze. So the game made me climb fast ... provided I was willing to play enough games (and when I say climb fast, i skipped promos to Silver, and got promoted directly from S4 to S2 without promos as well). And in the end, i got to Gold, with all my games in Bronze/Silver being played with and against S1 to G3-2 players, because that's what the game considered my level was (and since I got to Gold quite fast, I probably wasn't that bad in thoses games, and i carried a bunch of them as well, so it wasn't unfair to my teammates to be queued with me, I think). And quite naturally, the more I climbed, the fewer LP I would win (and the more LP I would lose when I lost games). But as long as your MMR is higher than your Rank, there should be a clear difference in LP between a win and a lose, which is to me the clearest **actual** proof (besides what they **claim**) that MMR is indeed different than Rank. Hope my 2 cents are worth something ^^
> [{quoted}](name=graindesable,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2tZaTY50,comment-id=00060001000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-25T15:23:06.238+0000) > > One way to see the fact that MMR isn't the same as Rank is the LP you gain/lose at the end of the games. > Speaking from experience, i have played a bit in the early season after a long League break, and was placed in Bronze. > And I more or less didn't play Ranked until about a month ago, because I wanted that free skin. > And when I started back, after playing a lot in Normal with Gold/Plat friends, against Silver to Plat players, My level was likely around high Silver/Low Gold. > So when I got back to Ranked, pretty early I got queued against low Gold players, even while being high Bronze myself. > And wins would get me around 34 LP, with loses costing me 11 LP, because I had a MMR around low Gold, and a Rank at Bronze. > So the game made me climb fast ... provided I was willing to play enough games (and when I say climb fast, i skipped promos to Silver, and got promoted directly from S4 to S2 without promos as well). > And in the end, i got to Gold, with all my games in Bronze/Silver being played with and against S1 to G3-2 players, because that's what the game considered my level was (and since I got to Gold quite fast, I probably wasn't that bad in thoses games, and i carried a bunch of them as well, so it wasn't unfair to my teammates to be queued with me, I think). > And quite naturally, the more I climbed, the fewer LP I would win (and the more LP I would lose when I lost games). > But as long as your MMR is higher than your Rank, there should be a clear difference in LP between a win and a lose, which is to me the clearest **actual** proof (besides what they **claim**) that MMR is indeed different than Rank. > > Hope my 2 cents are worth something ^^ normal and ranked MMR are seperate, you gained alot of MMR due to winning against high ranked players, this only proves the system is skewed...., your rank will have to match your MMR at all times to ensure correct matchmaking.
: No they are not the same. They usually remain close, indeed, because it would be stupid to have an Iron-like MMR and a Plat Rank, but they are not the same. Your own link says it explicitly: > While MMR is the number we use to determine your opponents, your personal progress is represented by the Leagues system. Here are a few familiar situations to illustrate the difference between your League and your MMR There is a difference between the two, because the two are not the same. There are two different things. All the rest of our disagreements come from that fundamental point, so I won't reply in detail to every line, but really, they are NOT the same thing. ____ A few stray remarks: > they could take MMR from a normal game and place them according to normal game tier in a ranked tier, if they lose they lose if they win they win, at least they don't screw up games whilst being placed WAY too high..... That's more or less what they do. Gold4 is just not that high. It's 50% of the playerbase, this year. > looking back, i see 3 unranked including that jhin where it says silver 3, and 2 bronze out of ten games I don't know where you're looking, but at this link https://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=Devilreaper%20XIII I see 3 unranked, including that Jhin that I *still* see unranked, and 0 Bronze in your last 10 games. CTRL+F "Bronz", I have 0 result. > no.... the matchmaking system creates a team with similar MMR as WHOLE, they do this basing off individual MMR, but in the end the MMR total is what sets the match. Of course, if the individuals are all the same, the totals are also equal. But having all individuals the same is a stronger constraint, and that's what's happening (excluding Duos). Again, from your OWN link: "it will look for other players whose numbers are close to yours". > an ENTIRE silver team opposing us with one gold IV player was, that was a clear stomp match from our side.... An "entire team of Silvers" (two Silver1 and a Silver2) with less than 50 games each who are still climbing, against a team of hardstuck Gold4 with 400 games each. Yeah, everyone had the same MMR. Not the same Rank, but the same MMR, because, once again: they are not the same thing. > rigged beyond a doubt [...] there simply is no other explanation. Yeah, there IS another explanation. MMR and Rank are not the same. It's a much simpler and believable explanation than Riot putting in place some elaborate scheme to rig certain matches.
> [{quoted}](name=DeathBurst,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2tZaTY50,comment-id=00060001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-22T12:54:38.774+0000) > > No they are not the same. They usually remain close, indeed, because it would be stupid to have an Iron-like MMR and a Plat Rank, but they are not the same. Your own link says it explicitly: > > There is a difference between the two, because the two are not the same. There are two different things. > > All the rest of our disagreements come from that fundamental point, so I won't reply in detail to every line, but really, they are NOT the same thing. > > ____ > 1 you start with a set number of MMR 2 after several matches the game ranks you 3 your MMR level matches the rank 4 you win or lose matches and your MMR level drops or raises 5 this ensures your MMR is ALWAYS within the correct tier 6 MMR = RANK, this is why iron can't join plat, the matchmaking system would have to match total number of MMR, so odd teams shouldn't exist period. > A few stray remarks: > > That's more or less what they do. Gold4 is just not that high. It's 50% of the playerbase, this year. > its not, they just drop you in randomly for testing and than rank you. > I don't know where you're looking, but at this link https://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=Devilreaper%20XIII > I see 3 unranked, including that Jhin that I *still* see unranked, and 0 Bronze in your last 10 games. CTRL+F "Bronz", I have 0 result. > not on my team, against me. > Of course, if the individuals are all the same, the totals are also equal. But having all individuals the same is a stronger constraint, and that's what's happening (excluding Duos). Again, from your OWN link: "it will look for other players whose numbers are close to yours". > how is bronze MMR close to gold MMR? we are talking 2 tiers back O.o > An "entire team of Silvers" (two Silver1 and a Silver2) with less than 50 games each who are still climbing, against a team of hardstuck Gold4 with 400 games each. Yeah, everyone had the same MMR. Not the same Rank, but the same MMR, because, once again: they are not the same thing. > there simply is no other explanation. > see above i explained MMR, it shouldn't have happened. > Yeah, there IS another explanation. MMR and Rank are not the same. It's a much simpler and believable explanation than Riot putting in place some elaborate scheme to rig certain matches. nope lol, riot wants to keep players around 50% winrate, keeping them longer in a tier so they end up playing more and longer, whilst preventing many players from hitting challenger, they don't want too many teams in pro play, the costs would exceed the profit that way, which is also why they added tiers.
: > you can't tell me 4 silver 1-2 and 1 gold IV players have the approximate same mmr as 4 gold iv and 1 unranked (mmr gold iv) players Yeah, I can tell that. I can go even further and tell you that, excluding potential duos in that game, everyone had roughly the same MMR. It's not just equal between the two teams, it's equal between all the players involved (again, excluding duos). A Silver2 with a good winrate and a winning streak can totally have the same MMR as a Gold4. > an unranked person shouldn't even have MMR yet They have to start somewhere. You need to start playing Ranked to get a rank/MMR. That's... not a hard concept. When someone goes into the Ranked queue for the first time, they need to be put *somewhere*. There's no way around it. > its easy to prevent unranked players from entering a ranked match with ranked players that aren't unranked Huh, no it's not! Because the pool of players entering the Ranked queue which are still unranked is super tiny, especially so late in the season. Do you really expect this Jhin to go into a match with 9 other unranked players? And to have to wait 2 hours in queue for that? > this happens about 5 to 6 times out of 10 matches in the least Of course not. Check your own history, take a paper, and actually count it down. I checked your history, and in your last 20 games, it happened 3 times. That's a quarter of what you claim. > and there are smurfs that affect it as well, aka matchmaking is a total mess and rigged as hell Being "a mess", **I could actually agree with you there**. Yeah, smurfs and duos are a pain in the ass, and they make for bad matchmaking. **But that's not Riot's forcing you to lose games!** The system is not "rigged", that's downright ridiculous. Being bad and ineffective is not the same thing as being purposefully malicious.... > he died once by his own fault and left...... once he saw how hard we were coming back, he decided to come back and profit And how in hell is that the fault of the **matchmaking**? You think the **matchmaking** predicted that Jhin would AFK? For real... > jhin was added to match the total MMR of the opponents Again, the system does not try to match the MMR of the two teams as a whole. It tries to match the MMR of every single player individually. Or Duos, but still, not the team as a whole. Duos get a bonus to compensate the fact that they have better coordination, so this Silver Duo had a Silver1/Gold4 MMR. Just like everyone else in that game. > and fyi jhin is silver 3 now, Rank and MMR is not the same thing. His **MMR** is equivalent to Silver1/Gold4. Once again, check his history: ALL his games are played with other Gold4 players. But he just finished his placement series, so his Rank is lower than his MMR. That's official, you even get a pop-up when the season start and everything, warning you that you should expect your placement series to put you lowers than the Rank you actually deserve (a.k.a your MMR). > riot contradicts themselves so hard in their explanation, so they strive for a fair match making where each team has 50% win and lose rate give or take, but scroll down and they state that the system places players that win or lose alot higher or lower than their MMR Are you referring to that part? "You’re winning a lot, and the matchmaker is placing you against stronger opponents." Because this is directly in the paragraph about "Here are a few familiar situations to illustrate the difference between your League [a.k.a your Rank] and your MMR". Players who win or lose a lot are placed higher or lower than their **Rank** (like this Jhin). But they are placed **at** their MMR, precisely because Riot wants to give fair matches. Everyone is always matched at their MMR. That's why it exists, that's its goal, that's what it's for. ____ ## MMR and Rank are not the same. Which is why Riot should just show us both, that would erase all this confusion like in your situation. They don't, and I disagree with this decision. But they still don't rig matches, that's ridiculous.
> [{quoted}](name=DeathBurst,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2tZaTY50,comment-id=000600010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-21T19:08:30.448+0000) > > Yeah, I can tell that. I can go even further and tell you that, excluding potential duos in that game, everyone had roughly the same MMR. It's not just equal between the two teams, it's equal between all the players involved (again, excluding duos). A Silver2 with a good winrate and a winning streak can totally have the same MMR as a Gold4. > no, your MR determines your position in tier.... the only way to get silver players in a gold matchup is if there are few players online, if a gold player or a silver player start a premade, or riot trolling hard to keep you around 50% winrate..... just an example but here goes : lets say gold IV players have 200 MMR and silver I players 190 MMR lets say you go into solo Q as gold IV, which means you should get matches with silver I/gold IV players since it shouldn't deviate too much, but solo duo is solo DUO, so if a gold IV player decided to queue with a silver V player with 20 MMR, the MMR rating will lower, which means the system needs to compensate and get an similar MMR rating for both teams lets say 1 team consists of gold IV players which means 200 times 5 = 1000 MMR, 200 times 4 + 38 = 838, which is not enough, so either the team with the silver player should get a teammate with higher MMR, or the gold IV team gets one with as low an MMR to match total MMR, this however isn't always happening, and even if its happening still causes unbalance. > They have to start somewhere. You need to start playing Ranked to get a rank/MMR. That's... not a hard concept. When someone goes into the Ranked queue for the first time, they need to be put *somewhere*. There's no way around it. > they could take MMR from a normal game and place them according to normal game tier in a ranked tier, if they lose they lose if they win they win, at least they don't screw up games whilst being placed WAY too high..... > Huh, no it's not! Because the pool of players entering the Ranked queue which are still unranked is super tiny, especially so late in the season. Do you really expect this Jhin to go into a match with 9 other unranked players? And to have to wait 2 hours in queue for that? > lel i didn't say that, that would be insane {{sticker:sg-kiko}} , no i meant that they could be given a rank prior to playing ranked based on their MMR in normal games for example, or riot needs to come up with a trial including bots to test the player in non ranked matchups, and compare their gameplay with all tiers, this isn't that hard :P. > Of course not. Check your own history, take a paper, and actually count it down. I checked your history, and in your last 20 games, it happened 3 times. That's a quarter of what you claim. > looking back, i see 3 unranked including that jhin where it says silver 3, and 2 bronze out of ten games, and than its possible that there are more players like jhin that were tiered after said match, so it shows a rank rather than unranked.... so im spot on.... > Being "a mess", **I could actually agree with you there**. Yeah, smurfs and duos are a pain in the ass, and they make for bad matchmaking. **But that's not Riot's forcing you to lose games!** The system is not "rigged", that's downright ridiculous. Being bad and ineffective is not the same thing as being purposefully malicious.... > oh i know but when smurfs and premades aren't the factor, and you get unranked players or a full team of bronze when you are silver 1 up against a full team of silver it sure as hell is rigged .o. > And how in hell is that the fault of the **matchmaking**? You think the **matchmaking** predicted that Jhin would AFK? For real... > no offense but he was unranked..... there was no telling where he would be placed in, he could've been placed in iron or bronze O.o, the matchmaking stretches and places players with a winstreak higher than they should be or with a lose streak lower than they should be, no it couldn't know he would go afk, but its obvious an unranked player might not be as competitive, they don't need to hold their current rank, since they have none..... meaning such a player behaviour is unpredictable.... > Again, the system does not try to match the MMR of the two teams as a whole. It tries to match the MMR of every single player individually. Or Duos, but still, not the team as a whole. Duos get a bonus to compensate the fact that they have better coordination, so this Silver Duo had a Silver1/Gold4 MMR. Just like everyone else in that game. > no.... the matchmaking system creates a team with similar MMR as WHOLE, they do this basing off individual MMR, but in the end the MMR total is what sets the match. > Rank and MMR is not the same thing. His **MMR** is equivalent to Silver1/Gold4. Once again, check his history: ALL his games are played with other Gold4 players. But he just finished his placement series, so his Rank is lower than his MMR. That's official, you even get a pop-up when the season start and everything, warning you that you should expect your placement series to put you lowers than the Rank you actually deserve (a.k.a your MMR). > that still doesn't mean he should be playing with tiered players..... riot could easily fix that, and jhin wasn't even the biggest problem, an ENTIRE silver team opposing us with one gold IV player was, that was a clear stomp match from our side.... > Are you referring to that part? "You’re winning a lot, and the matchmaker is placing you against stronger opponents." Because this is directly in the paragraph about "Here are a few familiar situations to illustrate the difference between your League [a.k.a your Rank] and your MMR". > > Players who win or lose a lot are placed higher or lower than their **Rank** (like this Jhin). But they are placed **at** their MMR, precisely because Riot wants to give fair matches. Everyone is always matched at their MMR. That's why it exists, that's its goal, that's what it's for. > ____ > > ## MMR and Rank are not the same. > > Which is why Riot should just show us both, that would erase all this confusion like in your situation. They don't, and I disagree with this decision. But they still don't rig matches, that's ridiculous. actually your MMR is the same as your rank.... MMR stands for MATCH MAKING RATING, it would be ridiculous to be in tier platinum I and be faced off against an iron V team..... MMR matches your rank, the higher you are the more restricted queueing and matchmaking will be, from iron to gold you can be matched with 1 rank lower and 1 rank up, from platinum plus its even more restricted https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/204010760-Ranked-Play-FAQ in practise i've seen platinum players in my silver games .o. the matchmaking is certainly rigged beyond a doubt, and i'm not the only one saying this, why do you think riot added the part that says : "While we know some matches may feel like stomps, we do try to make sure all teams have a 50 +/-1% chance of victory" https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752954-Matchmaking-Guide damage control and denial of a rigged matchmaking right there, ''trying to'' lel more like we can't be bothered to listen to players feedback about matchmaking because : 1 : lazy and or proud of it 2 : rigged matchmaking happening to keep everyone at 50% W/L, rate like they been saying over and over. there simply is no other explanation.
Cycera (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2tZaTY50,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-21T10:53:05.811+0000) > > they're doing this on purpose, for the 50% winrate, they could easily take average stats of each tier and compare gameplay to it to place someone. I mean, at least now I know it wasn't an accident. Still, I feel like three leagues ahead of me is a little much. I would cap it off at two leagues ahead of me if I was really doing that good (I lost most of my placements, so I wasn't doing great)
> [{quoted}](name=Cycera,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2tZaTY50,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-21T20:57:41.454+0000) > > I mean, at least now I know it wasn't an accident. Still, I feel like three leagues ahead of me is a little much. I would cap it off at two leagues ahead of me if I was really doing that good (I lost most of my placements, so I wasn't doing great) riots MMR system is contradictory, according to riot the system tries to even out total number of MMR, but if you are on a win or lose streak the system places you higher or lower, which means it litterally causes an unbalance...... so in the end its a loop, the system causes the win or lose streak and creates unbalance which causes a win or lose streak which causes etc.... its a domino effect that is completely unnecessary, they could just keep you in the correct tier and let a promo decide whether you should be higher or not, the system also places unranked players too high often since they might be on a winstreak, last time i had a full gold IV team with 1 unranked, we were up against a full silver 2-3 team with 1 gold IV...... i still don't get how we matched total MMR O.o, there are blocks that prevent lower or higher tier to enter your match unless there's a lack of players on, so its still possible but it should be rare according to riot, thruth is though that it just happens way too often .-.
IainG10 (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BJ03AAPZ,comment-id=0019,timestamp=2019-11-21T11:53:11.846+0000) > >while non mana champions/tanks and adc supports remain in lane 24/7 whilst being able to cast abilities..... Blitzcrank want s a word with you, along with any tank that has a suicidal moron as their ADC....
> [{quoted}](name=IainG10,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BJ03AAPZ,comment-id=00190000,timestamp=2019-11-21T13:16:23.221+0000) > > Blitzcrank want s a word with you, along with any tank that has a suicidal moron as their ADC.... lel been there done that, and best thing is, its always our fault never the adc {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}} but i meant that tanks don't require as much mana generally, so they can stay in lane regardless of the adc and get more/longer gold income, securing tower and stuff :P
: thats the point for the mana regin atleast. forces bot lane to play smarter and safer instead of mage supports brainlessly throwing every ability off cd and deal major damage if landed. i approve of this
> [{quoted}](name=Best Vi Earth,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BJ03AAPZ,comment-id=00190001,timestamp=2019-11-21T14:34:20.551+0000) > > thats the point for the mana regin atleast. forces bot lane to play smarter and safer instead of mage supports brainlessly throwing every ability off cd and deal major damage if landed. i approve of this go play support for once, you won't approve after some of the mage champions that aren't mana hungry, melee champions, rangers and non mana champions bully you out of lane, this is horrible for the support, for either you engage and get gold income or you wait until they engage to protect your adc, otherwise its 24/7 recalling..... this is not gameplay, champions that already spammed to no end never needed the cdr, champions that needed the cdr to engage somewhat can no longer..... this doesn't make anyone play smarter or safer, this is heavily crippling, either you lose lane, gold income or kdr, but you'll lose something..... and besides they lowered the damage on support items, and came up with a new assassin item once more to deal MORE damage..........{{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}} i don't approve of this at all.
: ima start going mana flow ban on zilean after these changes
> [{quoted}](name=Clapper of Asses,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BJ03AAPZ,comment-id=00190002,timestamp=2019-11-21T20:10:59.668+0000) > > ima start going mana flow ban on zilean after these changes already had it, still isn't enough :( that mana regen is essential throughout the game O.O
MickuPgBz (EUW)
: Please don't keep support items this way.
the constant deprivation of mana is more than annoying, and most casters build {{item:3285}} rather than {{item:3040}}, as a zilean i struggled in lane to keep the adc alive -.-, while non mana champions/tanks and adc supports remain in lane 24/7 whilst being able to cast abilities..... going {{item:3040}} on a zilean makes no sense... it will give you a lack of damage and its way too expensive compared to the stats luden give, going {{item:1052}} {{item:1027}} {{item:1052}} trumps going {{item:3070}} {{item:1027}} {{item:1004}} any time, and yeah 11 to 14 gold to 15 is not much, especially since it lasts longer rather then getting 22 gold per hit/minion/coin earlier by buying the upgrade....
: anyone else getting massive fps drops
> [{quoted}](name=HooliganGunner,realm=NA,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=O2HrrX9x,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-11-21T02:25:50.299+0000) > > Definitely not my PC. before preseason 10 my computer would run everything on ultra high and never lost a frame capping at 144. now i cant even run everything on the lowest setting without my framerate dropping to 60 every 3-4 seconds causing a big lag in game. Anyone else having this issue or know whats causing it yeah i have this too on occasion.
: By **definition** Challenger is the top 200 or whatever player. You don't need to rig people promos for that at all. People would stack up in Masters 0 LP, even if it worked as you think it does. But no, it just doesn't work how you think. Why would people necessarily climb without rigged matches? At some point you get matched with people just as good as you are, and you stop climbing. MMR isn't XP, you don't always get more the more you play. So at some point, your MMR in the system and your actual skills are equal, and then you can't go higher. Even in a perfect system not rigged at all. > (edit) in of my most recent matches i had a full gold IV tier team with 1 unranked player in there that went afk... how is that fair? we still managed to win because ... * First off, the system isn't perfect, and sometimes (rarely, but sometimes) errors happen. Good faith errors, not rigged matches. * Second, AFK are a totally different discussions. Yeah, AFK suck hard. But the system can't predict that. Getting an AFK is a terrible moment, but it doesn't prove the system is rigged. * Third, this Jhin was matched with you because that's actually his proper level. The fact that he's "unranked" doesn't mean he's a noob. Everyone is unranked before finishing their placement series. I will be unranked too when the next season start, and so will you. **Just have a look at his history**, and ALL his games have been in Gold4 MMR. So yeah, that was a fair match-making.
> [{quoted}](name=DeathBurst,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2tZaTY50,comment-id=0006000100000000,timestamp=2019-11-20T18:31:35.352+0000) > > By **definition** Challenger is the top 200 or whatever player. You don't need to rig people promos for that at all. People would stack up in Masters 0 LP, even if it worked as you think it does. > > But no, it just doesn't work how you think. Why would people necessarily climb without rigged matches? At some point you get matched with people just as good as you are, and you stop climbing. MMR isn't XP, you don't always get more the more you play. So at some point, your MMR in the system and your actual skills are equal, and then you can't go higher. Even in a perfect system not rigged at all. > how is that fair? we still managed to win because ... > > * First off, the system isn't perfect, and sometimes (rarely, but sometimes) errors happen. Good faith errors, not rigged matches. > * Second, AFK are a totally different discussions. Yeah, AFK suck hard. But the system can't predict that. Getting an AFK is a terrible moment, but it doesn't prove the system is rigged. > * Third, this Jhin was matched with you because that's actually his proper level. The fact that he's "unranked" doesn't mean he's a noob. Everyone is unranked before finishing their placement series. I will be unranked too when the next season start, and so will you. **Just have a look at his history**, and ALL his games have been in Gold4 MMR. > > So yeah, that was a fair match-making. lol i play since beta, and i can tell you when they implemented ranked, that is not how it worked, and it still isn't how it works, MMR is counted to a total number, so both team's MMR are equal, in order to even start a match, you can't tell me 4 silver 1-2 and 1 gold IV players have the approximate same mmr as 4 gold iv and 1 unranked (mmr gold iv) players, an unranked person shouldn't even have MMR yet, its easy to prevent unranked players from entering a ranked match with ranked players that aren't unranked, so yeah riot riggs the whole matchmaking, if this would happen like once or twice in like 50 matches i would agree with you, but this happens about 5 to 6 times out of 10 matches in the least, and especially in promos, the system should alter, and mmr should be determined from normal games, so when players want to enter ranked they have their rank based on how they perform in normal games, to prevent such rigged matchmaking, ofcourse there are also ranked players that take unranked players with them in a premade team to rigg the matchmaking, since matchmaking is based on total MMR level, and unraked players MMr is actually taken from normal games rather than getting a rank based on normal games before entering ranked, is why its rigged, and there are smurfs that affect it as well, aka matchmaking is a total mess and rigged as hell, and no that match with jhin was not fair, he died once by his own fault and left...... once he saw how hard we were coming back, he decided to come back and profit, jhin was added to match the total MMR of the opponents which had premade silvers in them, the only one that was gold IV was the zilean...... and fyi jhin is silver 3 now, so in what possible way was that match fair? it was rigged in our favor..... https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752954-Matchmaking-Guide riot contradicts themselves so hard in their explanation, so they strive for a fair match making where each team has 50% win and lose rate give or take, but scroll down and they state that the system places players that win or lose alot higher or lower than their MMR..... O___O which makes no sense, they don't go out of their way to say they actually do rigg matches, they just pretend like its normal to do so -.-
Cycera (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Jennifer17,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2tZaTY50,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-20T09:07:52.255+0000) > > i know that (for some reason) your first 10 ranked games tend to match you with higher people and then it balances, but not in such massive differences. thats just bs. oh well. Yeah, I've been told that too, but then when I mention it ended up being gold/plat I was matched with and against people were like wtf Other Bronze? Of course. Silver? Sure. Gold? Pushing it, but I guess a gold IV or sometimes III makes sense. Gold I, II, and low plat? Uhhh.....Riot ur high
> [{quoted}](name=Cycera,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2tZaTY50,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-20T17:05:02.810+0000) > > Yeah, I've been told that too, but then when I mention it ended up being gold/plat I was matched with and against people were like wtf > > Other Bronze? Of course. Silver? Sure. Gold? Pushing it, but I guess a gold IV or sometimes III makes sense. Gold I, II, and low plat? Uhhh.....Riot ur high they're doing this on purpose, for the 50% winrate, they could easily take average stats of each tier and compare gameplay to it to place someone.
: then how come im at 60 at 100 games :O
> [{quoted}](name=Konsequence,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2tZaTY50,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-11-19T11:04:45.406+0000) > > then how come im at 60 at 100 games :O i said around 50%, you spike between 40% and 60%, or you'd have to be a smurf, or a OTP abusing overpowered champions with a premade team lol XD
: They don't WANT to. They want to give fair matches to everyone, and when all your matches are fair, having a 50% winrate is a natural consequence. But it's not the goal, it's a side effect.
> [{quoted}](name=DeathBurst,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2tZaTY50,comment-id=00060001,timestamp=2019-11-19T15:06:27.042+0000) > > They don't WANT to. They want to give fair matches to everyone, and when all your matches are fair, having a 50% winrate is a natural consequence. But it's not the goal, it's a side effect. hahahahaha no....., they want to prevent too many players climbing to challenger, preferably keeping everyone around 50% win rate, ensures higher profits, and less leeching players (challengers in pro play). (edit) in of my most recent matches i had a full gold IV tier team with 1 unranked player in there that went afk... how is that fair? we still managed to win because one of their opponents went afk, and the player that went afk on our side suddenly came back -.-, matchmaking is so rigged, especially during promos.
: Riot doesn't really care about your winrate in and of itself. But if the average player could climb to their desired rank easily through dedication and then stop playing because they reached their goal, it would hurt their profit margins. Of course, Riot will never admit to fixing the algorithm in such a manner, because if they have no qualms with fixing tons of low level matches who's to say they won't do the same in Worlds to maintain customer engagement? If they admitted to fixing the algorithm I couldn't imagine their customer base would ever trust anything they do again.
> [{quoted}](name=MarshallgCqD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2tZaTY50,comment-id=00060002,timestamp=2019-11-19T20:40:37.241+0000) > > Riot doesn't really care about your winrate in and of itself. But if the average player could climb to their desired rank easily through dedication and then stop playing because they reached their goal, it would hurt their profit margins. Of course, Riot will never admit to fixing the algorithm in such a manner, because if they have no qualms with fixing tons of low level matches who's to say they won't do the same in Worlds to maintain customer engagement? If they admitted to fixing the algorithm I couldn't imagine their customer base would ever trust anything they do again. its only like this because tencent wants to keep making tons of profits, and no players wouldn't quit after reaching their goals, the only thing tencent is afraid of, is too many challengers.
Rezki (NA)
: Why am i getting unranked/bronze players in my gold promos?
riot wants everyone to be around 50% winrate is why.... {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-rainbows}}
Antenora (EUW)
: Tanks aren't as bad as people are making them out to be. They're viable and can win games.
> [{quoted}](name=Antenora,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ix1rnlss,comment-id=0024,timestamp=2019-11-08T11:38:11.305+0000) > > Tanks aren't as bad as people are making them out to be. > > They're viable and can win games. yeah, they don't realize we are in a damage/tank meta simultaneously, there are champions that can go 2-3 tank items and dominate with the same damage any other champion does, the only drawback is attack speed, but its not too big a deal, i mean, either you die in a split second by burst damage or it takes about 3 seconds with hard cc on your arse -.- top pick champions include tanks like, leona/gragas/nautilus/rakan/pyke and blitzcrank, 3 are hooks and 1 has hard CC stun, the other 2 have hard knockup/knock away CC and stun with utility, and the damage they can cause .o.
: There should be a report dodge button. You still take dodge lp loss, but at least get to report players who start trolling from queue.
> [{quoted}](name=Ambitious Minnow,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Acda78PL,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-11-07T20:26:57.666+0000) > > There should be a report dodge button. You still take dodge lp loss, but at least get to report players who start trolling from queue. that could be an option yeah, or like i said before, the option to unban the champion they banned whilst you had it on intent.
Rioter Comments
: Juggernauts have heals and shields tanks generally dont have self healing they are known for high cc. Most of these tanks listed are trash. Gragas not a tank gnar not a tank
> [{quoted}](name=RyzeRework,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ix1rnlss,comment-id=001f0000,timestamp=2019-11-06T21:48:47.013+0000) > > Juggernauts have heals and shields tanks generally dont have self healing they are known for high cc. Most of these tanks listed are trash. Gragas not a tank gnar not a tank well i don't consider NA gameplay significant though, its weird and illogical mostly, and all of them listed are tanks, gragas and MEGA gnar are definitely tanks, with high damage and cc, but yeah classifications are vague since riot killed that themselves, just look at gragas in the client high toughness, medium damage, medium mobility, low utility and high CC, hes an offensive tank, and if we look at gnar he has high toughness, medium damage, medium mobility, low utility and medium CC.... does that sound like a juggernaut to you? you contradicted yourself, they both have low sustain and high damage which riot considers medium.... {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}} and to think their ability to absorb damage is more significant than their ability to cause damage is {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}}
Cloud273 (NA)
: Buffing tanks directly is the best way to fix them
> [{quoted}](name=Cloud273,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ix1rnlss,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-11-05T22:16:21.327+0000) > > So, a lot of people are saying that tank items are weak right now, and while I don't disagree with this I don't think think buffing their items is the best solution. The problem with buffing tank items is that they get abused by bruisers (Jax, Udyr, Darius, etc) when they're strong (hell, we've even seen assassins build tank items when they're strong), and the real tanks in the game are still weak. Buffing their base armor/mr/health or scaling armor/mr/health is a better solution to this problem. Tanks will have the stats they need so they don't die in 2 seconds. majority of tanks can 1vs5... and you want to buff these monsters? gnar/gragas/leona/malphite/nautilus/nunu/sejuani/sion/braum/ poppy/amumu/zac/rammus/chogath/shen and tahm kench, what the game needs is a damage nerf on a lot of champions and a defense nerf on alot of them as well, some like yasuo and riven need ~~deleting ~~ their kits tweaked, and items need to be tweaked where they either give defense/hp OR attack/AP damage and crit OR attack speed, not both -.- atm you get nearly full tank bruisers or skirmishers with 2 or 3 offensive items that are tankier than the actual tanks @.@ absorbing way more damage.
: > [{quoted}](name=anatasjhsh01,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5teEQrzd,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-11-02T17:00:15.657+0000) > > Lee sin don't forget the knockback damage 21% of the main ult damage Ding ding ding. I love it when hypermobile bruisers can press QRQ and delete someone without even trying with only one actual damage item!
> [{quoted}](name=ChickenWrap,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5teEQrzd,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-11-02T17:08:24.279+0000) > > Ding ding ding. > > I love it when hypermobile bruisers can press QRQ and delete someone without even trying with only one actual damage item! moderators are suddenly getting woke, this has been said for years by players on the forums since 2012 {{sticker:zombie-brand-clap}}, all riot did in response was abandon the forums go to reddit and kept buffing and killing champions......
Aredethe (NA)
: I have a history of hypercarries with Zyra. On Three different accounts. As Jungle. As similar builds to this. You don't need Dashes when you run 526+ and can activate to 700+. https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-history/NA1/2237187975932352?champion=143 https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/3176067068/2237187975932352?tab=overview 33 KDA. I lost that match because of my team, not me. When 2 people are constantly dead, you can't build finish pressure.
> [{quoted}](name=Aredethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pY1Av0i9,comment-id=0001000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-24T17:54:08.395+0000) > > I have a history of hypercarries with Zyra. On Three different accounts. As Jungle. As similar builds to this. You don't need Dashes when you run 526+ and can activate to 700+. > > https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-history/NA1/2237187975932352?champion=143 > > https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/3176067068/2237187975932352?tab=overview > > 33 KDA. > > I lost that match because of my team, not me. When 2 people are constantly dead, you can't build finish pressure. all i see are fluctuations, no continueing trend of wins, whats the point of kda when you lose?, zyra is a control mage, your job is not to kill, but to control the flow of battle, that build isn't more effective than mine at all.....
: > [{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pY1Av0i9,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-10-22T08:46:30.807+0000) > > plant doesn't have alot of range, even riven outranges plant > plant does reduced damage if other plant targets the same champion > plant dies when stepped on > zyra needs an massive buff or other champions and items need a massive nerf. she has a 52% WR and climbing and you think she needs a buff? are you high?
> [{quoted}](name=Malix Farwin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pY1Av0i9,comment-id=000100000003,timestamp=2019-10-24T16:50:24.147+0000) > > she has a 52% WR and climbing and you think she needs a buff? are you high? are you nuts? first of all winrates are meaningless, and second off all zyra is simply not viable, that may be wood or bronze you're talking about, any higher elo and everything oneshots you.
Gabresol (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pY1Av0i9,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-10-22T08:46:30.807+0000) > > plant doesn't have alot of range, even riven outranges plant > plant does reduced damage if other plant targets the same champion > plant dies when stepped on > zyra needs an massive buff or other champions and items need a massive nerf. Riven has more than 575 range?
> [{quoted}](name=Gabresol,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pY1Av0i9,comment-id=000100000002,timestamp=2019-10-24T16:08:34.688+0000) > > Riven has more than 575 range? she has 900 range on her windslash, zyra flowers have 575 range, and its supposed to be her main source of damage -.-
iSennª (NA)
: Heimer tower one shot Zyra plants but it take 7 flower shot to kill 1 heimer tower... see how stupid it is.
> [{quoted}](name=Quinn Is Bae,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pY1Av0i9,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-10-24T10:58:12.668+0000) > > Heimer tower one shot Zyra plants but it take 7 flower shot to kill 1 heimer tower... see how stupid it is. its because they nerfed zyra to death, when 2+ flowers attack the same target, there will be damage reduction to the point the target will take the exact same damage as 1 plant attacking the target does -.-, so her passive is just as useless, since more flowers don't do more damage {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}
: Try building mobility then >.> https://blitz.gg/lol/match/na1/Illabethe/3180213783 Stop thinking that Rylais/Liandris are going to carry forever. Mobility Exists. Use it.
> [{quoted}](name=Illabethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pY1Av0i9,comment-id=00010000000100000000,timestamp=2019-10-23T10:11:30.027+0000) > > Try building mobility then >.> > > https://blitz.gg/lol/match/na1/Illabethe/3180213783 > > Stop thinking that Rylais/Liandris are going to carry forever. > > Mobility Exists. Use it. thats not the mobility i was talking about..... i'm talking dash/flash/jump etc, and zyra needs sorc shoes for penetration...... and mobility runes are more than useless on zyra as well :/ flashes still get you killed -.- on top of that she gets just like most champions oneshotted by assassins, bruisers and skirmishers, she does enough damage, she just can't get away, and can't keep champions inside her damage zone, due to too much mobility. and lol 1 match where an heimer fed you is meaningless {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}}, besides you still lost that match.....
pureMJ (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=7thHeaven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pY1Av0i9,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-10-22T08:59:55.063+0000) > > https://matchhistory.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUW1/4170421591/26377710?tab=stats > https://matchhistory.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUW1/4175856824/26377710?tab=stats > Feed like a boss still deals most dmg I said high elo. I don't think balance should be based on silver games.
> [{quoted}](name=pureMJ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pY1Av0i9,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-22T19:55:07.790+0000) > > I said high elo. > I don't think balance should be based on silver games. hey hey hey careful, i'm a beta player, there i choose to stay in silver since thats the most competetive, and it has the most players, gold+ sucks, too many whackjobs winswapping and wanting to finish games in under 10 minutes -.-, high elo has more trolls than silver and bronze combined {{sticker:sg-kiko}} and riot should most definitely balance based on silver, it has the most players, and has actual players that prefer to play the game, this ends at gold+ just saying.
: I'm sorry but if I got buffed, I'd be pulling 30+ kill games routinely. Right now, a good game gets me 24 kills.
> [{quoted}](name=Illabethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pY1Av0i9,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2019-10-22T13:20:37.491+0000) > > I'm sorry but if I got buffed, I'd be pulling 30+ kill games routinely. Right now, a good game gets me 24 kills. zyra used to be my main, but when riot amped up the damage and gave so many champions mobility and self sustain zyra just fell off.... she doesn't need damage, she needs mobility or a form of defense, right now shes a sitting duck, and most champions can easily opt out of her ult b4 it even does damage whilst they are rooted AND slowed {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}
: https://matchhistory.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUW1/4170421591/26377710?tab=stats https://matchhistory.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUW1/4175856824/26377710?tab=stats Feed like a boss still deals most dmg
> [{quoted}](name=7thHeaven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pY1Av0i9,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-10-22T08:59:55.063+0000) > > https://matchhistory.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUW1/4170421591/26377710?tab=stats > https://matchhistory.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUW1/4175856824/26377710?tab=stats > Feed like a boss still deals most dmg because she is squishy as fk, i never said she needed a damage buff, i said she needs an buff, i would prefer to see her get some mobility or a way to defend herself in this current meta, but they shouldn't touch her damage wise, in that sense she is balanced, she just isn't viable.
: Plant is ranged Plant got slow Plant appears every seconds Play Zyra as mage not summoner
> [{quoted}](name=7thHeaven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pY1Av0i9,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-10-22T07:55:21.013+0000) > > Plant is ranged > Plant got slow > Plant appears every seconds > Play Zyra as mage not summoner plant doesn't have alot of range, even riven outranges plant plant does reduced damage if other plant targets the same champion plant dies when stepped on zyra needs an massive buff or other champions and items need a massive nerf.
TrulyBland (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=VGTft0bU,comment-id=0000000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-08T11:06:07.128+0000) > > you do realize scripts are COMMAND PROMPTS right? therefor they COMMAND the server not the other way around. Oh boy… Command prompts are not called command prompts because they command **other** computers what to do. You can't just command another computer to do what you say; at the very least you can't do that by sending it information via a predefined protocol that computer has established. If you want to command another computer to do whatever you say, you'd have to hack it. Let me be clear so you get this: That's a crime. That's something you don't get banned for, that's something you go to jail for. Do you think anybody is stupid enough to risk jailtime so they win at a video game? >all a server does is store data and or send it to other devices, its basically just an highway, for god sakes Again: That's just not true. No matter how many times you say it, it's simply not true. The actual game runs on the server. The clients merely control the pieces and get to witness it. You have such a deep misunderstanding of the basic architecture here that I can't go into any more detail than just telling you to inform yourself. >you are talking about a bug here, not a script, if there were a script it would've been a command to load the runes back in again, making it possible to keep selling runes, the only issue is anticheat, as long as they find a way around it..... **A script can't do that.** It just literally can't. Please, just **please** stop bringing up anticheat. This has nothing to do with anticheat. This isn't a method by which cheating is detected, this is a basic architecture choice that **prevents** cheating. Not detects and then prevents it from being executed, but prevents it to the point where even trying to do something is literally impossible to do. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- I'll try it one more time to get this through to you, as rigorous and concise as I can possibly make it. After this, I'm out, since you are evidently just too stubborn to see how misinformed you are: You communicate with the server based on a pre-established protocol; a protocol established by Riot, just to be clear. You can't just tell the server to do random things. You can only communicate with it via this pre-established protocol. Third time's the charm: The server cannot - not will not, not doesn't want to, but **CANNOT** - execute anything that doesn't match this pre-established protocol. Obviously Riot will make sure that this protocol is based on pre-defined actions. Those actions will naturally be limited to the actions you, as a client, are in principle allowed to take. If your client is not allowed to do something, there are now two ways to prevent that, which I'll elaborate on the example of trying to attack a champion in two situations: A) The champion is in range, but in the fog of war. The server looks at the game state and realizes that you are not able to see that champion, ergo you shouldn't be able to try to attack it and simply ignores your request. This is a potential target. if this is bugged in some way, this **might** give you the ability to trick the server into doing something you are not actually allowed to do. B) The champion is out of range. The server doesn't look at anything. Why? Because there is no command for just attacking the enemy when it's out of range. The only thing you can tell the server is to **move into range and attack**. This gives you literally zero leeway. The server literally is unable to execute what you are asking of it, because it doesn't understand your command. Why does it not understand your command? **Because it's not in the pre-established protocol.** Because, again, as I've said, repeated and emphasized in my previous post: **Scripts cannot use methods that don't exist on the server.** ---------------------------------- The previously mentioned exploit falls into category A. You are in principle allowed to sell things, so a protocol for this action in principle exists. At this point the system has to detect any attempt to sell things you are not meant to sell. One could loosely describe that as "anticheat", even though I still wouldn't use that term for something this simple. One example of something you shouldn't be able to sell is things you don't actually own. That detection (hopefully) works as intended. Another example of something you shouldn't be able to sell, even though you do technically own it, is runes. That was something Riot overlooked and it resulted in an exploit that allowed people to get lots of gold for a comparatively small disadvantage. The vast majority of what you are describing in the OP and in the links you previously shared, however, falls into category B. There simply exists no way by which you can directly change your cdr, because… why would that exist in the protocol? When would you as a player **EVER** need to tell the server what your cdr is, or command it to set it higher?
> [{quoted}](name=TrulyBland,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=VGTft0bU,comment-id=00000001000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-08T12:08:55.024+0000) > > Oh boy… > Command prompts are not called command prompts because they command **other** computers what to do. > You can't just command another computer to do what you say; at the very least you can't do that by sending it information via a predefined protocol that computer has established. > > If you want to command another computer to do whatever you say, you'd have to hack it. > Let me be clear so you get this: That's a crime. That's something you don't get banned for, that's something you go to jail for. > Do you think anybody is stupid enough to risk jailtime so they win at a video game? > lol wtf are you talking about? a script leads to a command (when the conditions are met) that is send to trigger something, without a script it will never trigger, you don't need to hack other computers to send commands when the script already contains the right codes/pathing to said computer O.o the game is connected to the server so if you link the script to the game by bypassing anticheat you can send commands using scripts with the right codes to the server. > Again: That's just not true. No matter how many times you say it, it's simply not true. > The actual game runs on the server. The clients merely control the pieces and get to witness it. > You have such a deep misunderstanding of the basic architecture here that I can't go into any more detail than just telling you to inform yourself. > no the game does not run ON the server what actually happens is this : 1 the server contains data 2 your pc contains data 3 your pc sends data to the server through a client using scripts 4 the scripts on the server get triggered by your data and sends data back 5 you gain acces to riots pcs with limitations ofcourse 6 the game is loaded based on preset scripts on YOUR pc 7 so in the end the game runs on YOUR pc remotely accessing someone else's pc simultaneously that has said data stored. again simply for you, the server is a storage, your pc contains all the data to load the game, if the game didn't require you to access the server by logging in to use that data, you would've been able to play offline. > **A script can't do that.** It just literally can't. Please, just **please** stop bringing up anticheat. This has nothing to do with anticheat. This isn't a method by which cheating is detected, this is a basic architecture choice that **prevents** cheating. Not detects and then prevents it from being executed, but prevents it to the point where even trying to do something is literally impossible to do. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I'll try it one more time to get this through to you, as rigorous and concise as I can possibly make it. After this, I'm out, since you are evidently just too stubborn to see how misinformed you are: > > You communicate with the server based on a pre-established protocol; a protocol established by Riot, just to be clear. > You can't just tell the server to do random things. You can only communicate with it via this pre-established protocol. > Third time's the charm: The server cannot - not will not, not doesn't want to, but **CANNOT** - execute anything that doesn't match this pre-established protocol. > > Obviously Riot will make sure that this protocol is based on pre-defined actions. Those actions will naturally be limited to the actions you, as a client, are in principle allowed to take. > > > If your client is not allowed to do something, there are now two ways to prevent that, which I'll elaborate on the example of trying to attack a champion in two situations: > > A) The champion is in range, but in the fog of war. > The server looks at the game state and realizes that you are not able to see that champion, ergo you shouldn't be able to try to attack it and simply ignores your request. > This is a potential target. if this is bugged in some way, this **might** give you the ability to trick the server into doing something you are not actually allowed to do. > scripts don't exploit bugs, they send commands to the server, than the server simply replies. > B) The champion is out of range. > The server doesn't look at anything. Why? Because there is no command for just attacking the enemy when it's out of range. The only thing you can tell the server is to **move into range and attack**. > This gives you literally zero leeway. The server literally is unable to execute what you are asking of it, because it doesn't understand your command. Why does it not understand your command? **Because it's not in the pre-established protocol.** Because, again, as I've said, repeated and emphasized in my previous post: > **Scripts cannot use methods that don't exist on the server.** > > ---------------------------------- > and as i've said multiple times, all forms of scripting i mentioned are possible since they exist in the game, i explained to you, that people rip EXISTING scripts from the game, so the command and data exist, again what point are you trying to make? > The previously mentioned exploit falls into category A. > You are in principle allowed to sell things, so a protocol for this action in principle exists. At this point the system has to detect any attempt to sell things you are not meant to sell. One could loosely describe that as "anticheat", even though I still wouldn't use that term for something this simple. > One example of something you shouldn't be able to sell is things you don't actually own. That detection (hopefully) works as intended. Another example of something you shouldn't be able to sell, even though you do technically own it, is runes. > That was something Riot overlooked and it resulted in an exploit that allowed people to get lots of gold for a comparatively small disadvantage. > > The vast majority of what you are describing in the OP and in the links you previously shared, however, falls into category B. > There simply exists no way by which you can directly change your cdr, because… why would that exist in the protocol? When would you as a player **EVER** need to tell the server what your cdr is, or command it to set it higher? you have no idea what scripts are, or a server is...... so again scripts are lines of codes used to send commands, the server does not think nor does it send commands, nor does it restrict anything, scripts do, so the only defense against scripting is scripting, as for anticheat, it isn't just a preventive program, it can actually detect third party software running on your background...... so again, runes as well as items trigger gain in cdr, so if you have a script that can send a command to the server that increases cdr by fooling it by activating an item's/rune's stats, than the script inside the server provides you with it, its not rocketscience..... HOWEVER no one would do that since its not an instant gain of cdr, instead on the EXACT same server training matches exist, where you can adjust your stats and gain max CDR, so if that script gets ripped, they can send it to the SAME server to trigger it on said champ, it doesn't matter whether its a training game or not, all riot did was remove some limitations on the training game, so initially the script that allows you to adjust stats in the training match is simply not triggered in a pvp match, however the server does contain the data, and so sending a command from that script using the lines of codes can trigger the adjustment in a pvp match, so you can gain cdr, a way for riot to prevent it is by using anticheat to detect this thrid party software sending commands using scripts to the server during gameplay. let me ask you why YOU think pbe exists?
mack9112 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=VGTft0bU,comment-id=0007000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-05T08:50:14.247+0000) > > {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}} go google scripts or click on the links, which have been reported by me to riot already, so maybe these sites are down or will be down some time later, there are blogs that litteraly explain how riots anti cheat works, and how to get around it -.- i have provided evidence of this already. Please provide me the links
> [{quoted}](name=mack9112,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=VGTft0bU,comment-id=00070000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-08T18:25:02.410+0000) > > Please provide me the links i will not, riot will remove them and i will be punished if i do so again.
: If you dont BUILD DEFENSE Dont expect to not take tons of damage. Bull shit no Full tank Nautilus 60%'s any squishy champion building full damage without being 3 levels ahead. Yes it is balanced even if it were to happen because these champions are balanced on staying away and dealing tons (gimmie 70% of your hp bar from 2 spells on a mage or in 1.5 seconds versus an adc) of damage while being far and safe adcs even have the ability to heal damage they took despite their already safe position. the power of 300 more range is that strong and even more so coupled with speed to juke anything thrown at them. armor and magic resist will always only block a portion of damage while adcs and mages work on the philosophy that you block 100% of the damage that doesnt hit.
> [{quoted}](name=LordGeovanni,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JHA6AAyH,comment-id=0008000300000000,timestamp=2019-10-08T18:49:24.970+0000) > > If you dont BUILD DEFENSE Dont expect to not take tons of damage. Bull shit no Full tank Nautilus 60%'s any squishy champion building full damage without being 3 levels ahead. > Yes it is balanced even if it were to happen because these champions are balanced on staying away and dealing tons (gimmie 70% of your hp bar from 2 spells on a mage or in 1.5 seconds versus an adc) of damage while being far and safe adcs even have the ability to heal damage they took despite their already safe position. the power of 300 more range is that strong and even more so coupled with speed to juke anything thrown at them. armor and magic resist will always only block a portion of damage while adcs and mages work on the philosophy that you block 100% of the damage that doesnt hit. nautilus certainly takes away about 50 to 60% hp from any adc or mage, that doesn't have a shield, and no he doesn't need to be ahead of levels, we were equal level.
: > [{quoted}](name=ReportsR4Losers,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JHA6AAyH,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-10-07T05:42:12.989+0000) > > True damage and life-steal both need to go. Crit needs to be toned down. Towers need a buff. True dmg 100% needs to go. This is coming from a ayasuo main. The only champs that should do true dmg, are champs that had it built it. Lifesteal needs to be toned down for sure but not removed. Crit isnt the problem. Its that everyone does like 300 a regular auto with 2 items that makes crit broken. Towers need to have the plating without the gold or atleast like 100 gold or smth. A bit more resists too
> [{quoted}](name=KrypticBeing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JHA6AAyH,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2019-10-08T01:14:46.896+0000) > > True dmg 100% needs to go. This is coming from a ayasuo main. The only champs that should do true dmg, are champs that had it built it. Lifesteal needs to be toned down for sure but not removed. Crit isnt the problem. Its that everyone does like 300 a regular auto with 2 items that makes crit broken. Towers need to have the plating without the gold or atleast like 100 gold or smth. A bit more resists too towers need damage buffing, they are too weak, i see champions soaking up 5 to 6 hits and walking away with half health -.- killing champions under turrets pose no threat whatsoever, you're dead before the turret gets off a second or third hit these days :/
: Hasn't happened because it's a blind shot into the dark which doesn't address any actual problems, and is a half-ass blanket solution.
> [{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JHA6AAyH,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2019-10-07T20:12:20.327+0000) > > Hasn't happened because it's a blind shot into the dark which doesn't address any actual problems, and is a half-ass blanket solution. it would actually be closer to the solution, the damage in the game is just too high, it needs to be toned down till oneshots are impossible, but at the same time the defense on non tank champions that are actually as tanky or nearly as tanky as tanks need to be toned down as well, than items need to be tweaked to a point they no longer provide too many stats, towers need buffing damage wise, and certain champions like riven and yasuo need their kits tweaked so they no longer have no disadvantages.
: Although people like to say tanks do too much damage (when they walk up to them with no defenses built in melee range of their short range skills.) they woun't be able to farm if they get a damage decrease and not the mage i wont be able to farm cause ill one shot the wave half an item later and it would take me time to adjust.
> [{quoted}](name=LordGeovanni,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JHA6AAyH,comment-id=00080003,timestamp=2019-10-07T18:06:28.185+0000) > > Although people like to say tanks do too much damage (when they walk up to them with no defenses built in melee range of their short range skills.) they woun't be able to farm if they get a damage decrease and not the mage i wont be able to farm cause ill one shot the wave half an item later and it would take me time to adjust. yes because buying tank items on champions that need damage to be viable, just so they don't get 60% of their hp chunked away by 1 full combo from a lvl 5 nautilus with full tank build is normal...... in the meanwhile the champion building full damage can't even chunk 10% hp from that nautilus in a full combo *balanced* {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}
: > [{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JHA6AAyH,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-10-07T10:09:45.719+0000) > > that would create a bigger problem, atm damage and defense are the problems, they need to be nerfed on alot of champions, right now damage is too high, but at the counterside tanks/bruisers and skirmishers are too beefy, all they have to do is build 1 tank item and they are nigh unkillable, so adding more health will just make them more tanky :/ seen it on a mordekaiser, he went full ap first and had a negative score, he build 1 tank item spirit vissage, and suddenly was unkillable..... he just needed 3 items to get to there. I didn't clarify this well but I want mostly more health in the beginning with a tampering off scaling that is less on tanks and more on squishes. So squishes get a bit more more base health initially then it slowly tampers off a little bit in growth and max health for tanks at end game is down. What you said also makes sense but this is suppose to do the same thing. More initially base health to stop the insane burst early game that scales a little bit too keep up with runes somewhat.
> [{quoted}](name=ICldB3urLolliPop,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JHA6AAyH,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2019-10-07T16:13:25.426+0000) > > I didn't clarify this well but I want mostly more health in the beginning with a tampering off scaling that is less on tanks and more on squishes. So squishes get a bit more more base health initially then it slowly tampers off a little bit in growth and max health for tanks at end game is down. What you said also makes sense but this is suppose to do the same thing. More initially base health to stop the insane burst early game that scales a little bit too keep up with runes somewhat. than riot just buffs damage again so that assassins can keep oneshotting and the circle keeps on going :( its time they started nerfing properly, and stop buffing already.
: In what world? I’ve never bopped a Darius in lane only for him to come back.
> [{quoted}](name=Z3Sleepier,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JHA6AAyH,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2019-10-07T19:54:38.198+0000) > > In what world? I’ve never bopped a Darius in lane only for him to come back. as expected on NA {{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}}
TrulyBland (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=VGTft0bU,comment-id=00000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-05T08:57:43.562+0000) > >learn to read its a limited one, and in there it is stated that riot WILL find out unless you stick to the limit Riot will find out regardless. How do you expect them **not** to find out? This is the same thing as I've said before: If you want to actually be able to *use* this RP, the server needs to agree that this is the amount of RP that you actually have. Any process by which you convince the server of that fact is going to show up on their side, too. And since it would have to be a very specific exploit it would presumably just take a single query to find literally all the players who have ever used this exploit. > thats not how it works, the server knows nothing.... you do realize the server gets information from the scripts, the scripts tell the server..... No. That's literally the opposite of how it works. What do you even think a server **is**? Everything, where the champions are, what they are, the camps, the statistics, the gold, the entire history of what has previously happened, all of that is on the server. Your client simply **asks** for those things in order to be able to display them. I'm guessing for performance reasons it might sometimes not ask for those things if it can derive it from other information it already has. But what actually counts, what decides how far somebody's health bar goes down when you hit him with one of your abilities, what decides how much gold you get when you kill somebody, what decides what abilities you can level up next, **ALL** of that is decided by the server using the stats the server has. If the server looks at its stats and determines that you can't do something, you can't do it. Period. This has nothing to do with AIs, btw, this is very basic programming architecture. Everything that your program can do needs to have been programmed beforehand. So if you don't want players to be able to cheat themselves gold in a direct fashion, then literally all you have to do is **not** have a method that allows directly changing the amount of gold a player has. Scripts can't use what doesn't exist. Let me say that again, because it is important: **Scripts cannot use methods that don't exist on the server.** >because they didn't have more runes, was all.... Yes... and why didn't they have more runes? Because the server knows how many runes they have. And even if you tried to sell more runes than you have, the server would go "Sorry, you don't have any more runes". That's precisely my point. Those things happen serverside. What your scripts pretend to be going on clientside don't matter one bit if you cannot somehow make the **server** pretend the same thing. And that just isn't possible in the vast majority of cases.
> [{quoted}](name=TrulyBland,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=VGTft0bU,comment-id=000000010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-07T13:21:12.301+0000) > > Riot will find out regardless. How do you expect them **not** to find out? > This is the same thing as I've said before: If you want to actually be able to *use* this RP, the server needs to agree that this is the amount of RP that you actually have. > Any process by which you convince the server of that fact is going to show up on their side, too. And since it would have to be a very specific exploit it would presumably just take a single query to find literally all the players who have ever used this exploit. > you do realize scripts are COMMAND PROMPTS right? therefor they COMMAND the server not the other way around. > No. That's literally the opposite of how it works. > What do you even think a server **is**? > Everything, where the champions are, what they are, the camps, the statistics, the gold, the entire history of what has previously happened, all of that is on the server. Your client simply **asks** for those things in order to be able to display them. I'm guessing for performance reasons it might sometimes not ask for those things if it can derive it from other information it already has. > > But what actually counts, what decides how far somebody's health bar goes down when you hit him with one of your abilities, what decides how much gold you get when you kill somebody, what decides what abilities you can level up next, **ALL** of that is decided by the server using the stats the server has. > If the server looks at its stats and determines that you can't do something, you can't do it. Period. > > This has nothing to do with AIs, btw, this is very basic programming architecture. > Everything that your program can do needs to have been programmed beforehand. So if you don't want players to be able to cheat themselves gold in a direct fashion, then literally all you have to do is **not** have a method that allows directly changing the amount of gold a player has. Scripts can't use what doesn't exist. > > Let me say that again, because it is important: > **Scripts cannot use methods that don't exist on the server.** > all a server does is store data and or send it to other devices, its basically just an highway, for god sakes, but there could be scripts checking the data yes, but again they CAN be fooled.... scripts are written to send out commands, they also use pathing, actually this is where creativity comes in, bounties exist and you can have 5 times 500 bounty which is 2500 gold, + gold triggers from the rune + pyke gold + GP gold, so yeah it exists to get an instant of over 2500 gold per command send, however there is an script ON the server called anti cheat that can detect and shut it down, but the server itself doesn't do anything but obey, so everything i stated is possible to be obtained using scripts. > Yes... and why didn't they have more runes? Because the server knows how many runes they have. And even if you tried to sell more runes than you have, the server would go "Sorry, you don't have any more runes". > > That's precisely my point. Those things happen serverside. What your scripts pretend to be going on clientside don't matter one bit if you cannot somehow make the **server** pretend the same thing. And that just isn't possible in the vast majority of cases. you are talking about a bug here, not a script, if there were a script it would've been a command to load the runes back in again, making it possible to keep selling runes, the only issue is anticheat, as long as they find a way around it.....
: First started playing in 2015 and the difference is now that with most champs once you die the lane is basically over. From there on out you have to out macro them.
> [{quoted}](name=only luciano,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JHA6AAyH,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-10-07T09:05:51.694+0000) > > First started playing in 2015 and the difference is now that with most champs once you die the lane is basically over. From there on out you have to out macro them. tell that to darius^^ he just keeps owning the game no matter what.
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Devilreaper XIII

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