: What do you like and dislike about this year's Preseason?
Support changes are terrible as always and I miss klepto.
: I feel like support is in the strongest position it's been since I started playing the game. The champion pool available for supports has been blown wide open since Riot changed the support items this pre-season. The health / damage stats (including AD) items that scale FOR FREE allow for so many new champions to play the role and end up slightly weaker, if not just as strong as they would be in a solo lane by mid game. ... at least that's my experience. I've been bringing bruisers into support. For example, support Pantheon with Press the Attack or Conqueror has great all in potential. I also tend to play support Swain with Grasp of the Undying. He doesn't get to stack health off of it, but between Grasp, Second Wind and getting two or three procs of his passive every spell rotation (if you're good) that healing being amped up by Revitalize. I haven't actually played it this pre-season, but I've played support Bard with Electrocute before. His meeps make Q + basic attack automatically trigger it. Lux also triggers Electrocute with her passive. I also feel like Dark Harvest is always great for any poke support with an aggressive carry. And of course, there is always Glacial Augment. ..
> [{quoted}](name=Elite4Runner,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=cqf8q8sQ,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-12-04T14:55:31.683+0000) > > I feel like support is in the strongest position it's been since I started playing the game. {{sticker:sg-lux-2}} How? >For example, support Pantheon.... I've played support Bard with Electrocute before. {{sticker:sg-ahri-2}} Now I see. From my experience, I would say that the pool of viable supports has actually shrunk. Especially enchanters and tanks seem to be in a terrible state. Having more early gold in exchange for having a late-game option heavily incentivizes aggressive play as scaling supports can no longer get to the point where their superior scaling would be effective. With that, it´s obvious that lane bullies such as bard, bruisers, and hook-supports would fare pretty well in such an environment. Nevertheless, the idea that you are always on borrowed time as a support and that you will be stuck with 2 items if you don´t play balls to the wall and snowball is absurd to me. As a Bard main, it always seemed a bit controversial to go full ap instead of tank/ultility, a lot of players did go tank, but what back then looked suboptimal ( I simply assumed that the Bards that built tank were beginners ) can now only be described as sabotage. With the way, botlane works now, with turret plates, early support upgrades + gold for additional items, there is no excuse for not bringing a high dmg threat as a support and trying to bully as hard as possible.
: "support" design has been complete garbage lately
I would say they have been trying to open up the support role for the people who play regular league of legends (top, mid, adc, jgl) compared to the bastardized version support players play. To be fair, it takes a while to get used to all the things you are no longer allowed to do or have like gold, exp, cs, wave management, dmg, snowballing and overall carry potential, so it makes sense to introduce more support champs whom playstyles are reminiscent to those of real champs. in the light of Riot´s past efforts to prob every role into a high dmg-high mobility early game carry role, it is surprising that they decided to nuke supports back into the stone age, but maybe it was just to reassure the community that Riot is still fully committed to pigeonhole supports as the only team-oriented position, while every other role gets to play as selfishly as it wants. In the end, the one 1v5 penta wouldn´t look as fancy if there wasn´t a soraka spamming W and acting as a 7th item for the carry, so maybe that´s why we still need our good ol´ do nothing on their own supports. And maybe we can witness a renascence of enchanters, because who hasn´t missed standing back spamming shields/heals on cd and holding on to the one cockblock spell to counter engages while being hunted down by every assassin in the game, so thrilling. If Riot didn´t design their game so that dmg outweighs everything else maybe supportive playstyles wouldn´t feel like shit, but instead they just exacerbated the ancient problem of dps role being more popular than support roles by absolutely crippling support capabilities so that "flashy plays" which is just a roundabout way of saying insane burst and mobility are not interrupted. It is just baffling how much better it feels to play a supportive role in other games compared to here, where you are deliberately held down not only gameplay-wise but also through the lack of stats with the only balancing factor being that the opponent support is just as fucked as you are. When most players only stick to "true supports" when they are basically forced to and jump ship as soon as an alternative presents itself, then maybe it´s not the fault of the alternative, maybe it´s the role.
zed08 (NA)
: Most HATED Champion
Kythers (NA)
: I haven't noticed a difference in how strong I am as support this patch
my early impression is that you are more than ever enticed to go all in and focus on early domination of the lane. If you can keep the pressure up, snowball off your early "powerspike" and secure enough kill/assists throughout the midgame you will go even or even plus before the game ends. BUT if you were to focus around scaling and taking over the game in the long run or you are the one losing the lane this time then these changes are terrible as you basically can´t scale anymore past a certain point making comebacks impossible. personally I fundamentally disagree with the idea that one player should be denied the ability to scale. ( just add it on to the pile of key aspects of the game every other play gets to enjoy but supports are forbidden to participate )
: There's no support exclusive summoner that's somewhat detrimental to other users in the way smite can be, as far as opportunity cost. How would they pin items exclusively to support? By further restricting which champions can succeed in support or even other lanes by tagging items as champion exclusive? By receiving the "support" role? What if you swap with someone because you got autofilled? The problem is that Riot allowed supports to have a power fantasy (having gold and purchasing stats), and that power fantasy doesn't work. They need to be moved back to ward bots, have buffed base stats/damage (thus early agency that no other class has), and REMOVE the large majority of offensive stat scaling. In order for this to work, however, free damage from items such as Liandry's needs to be removed as well to prevent significant scaling on non-scaling champions (brand, zyra, etc). AP and AD were never supposed to be stats that were given freely to supports, and it has messed up the balance of every support, from enchanters to tanks, to even assassins and mages. ______________ People might not like it, but that's how supports are played in strategy games. You don't get massive utility (vision and other forms) without giving something up in return. If this happens, vision utility needs to be reduced from other roles, however. Look at a game like DotA. People don't mind playing support in that game. They have just as much agency as any other class, if not more at certain stages, but very often lack direct kill potential, or give something up in exchange for it. And you DON'T get gold as support. You get like 1/3 the gold of carries and spend the majority of it on wards. Riot needs to overhaul itemization in general and give each class of champions specific goals, and give items specific use cases instead of general stat buffs and universal damage increases. This game is going to die, at least to western audiences, and itemization is going to be the reason why, because Riot refuses to overhaul itemization and scaling as a whole. Go ahead and downvote me for saying it.
> [{quoted}](name=WoonStruck,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Osh22WzA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-11-24T21:36:39.491+0000) > > > The problem is that Riot allowed supports to have a power fantasy (having gold and purchasing stats)... - > They need to be moved back to ward bots,.... > well, that´s a way to frame the problem as the solution. As long as only one role has to make such sacrifices for the sake of "strategy" you run into a problem, especially when every other part of the game is geared towards the exact opposite. Good thing we have autofill. Imagine how long queue time would become if supports regressed to being ward bots again.
Trias000 (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=x8ETT2K8,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-11-22T18:02:55.370+0000) > > Did riot not understand that by adding AD support items, more types of champs might want to go into the "support" role? And in Lego Leggends we hate diversity and want to be meta slaves. So god forbid more types of champs go into the support role.
"lego leggends" so accurate {{sticker:sg-lulu}}
: New Support Items
You see, your first mistake was to think that Riot intended supports to have skill expression in the first place.
: Look on the bright side, fellow support mains
But don´t you get it? Your role is designed to be insignificant. The fact that supports were only 3-5k behind in gold and not 5-10k was the problem that riot finally fixed. Now you can go, set your 4 wards, and be a cc-bot for the real players. No scaling, no items, no agency just the good old bare-bones experience the support role is known for. bet everyone is going to play support from now on. I mean, you get 70% of an item for free. If that´s not a deal! /s In all seriousness, I am going through my list of champs to see who can be somewhat played top because I sure as hell won´t go anywhere near bot right now.
: Can we Please fixe camille interaction with yummi ? it Doesnt make any sence
What happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object? well, depends on which one has been released more recently.
: What enemy champ in champ select makes you die inside?
{{champion:8}} Just stupid when ahead and I have next to no control over if my top/mid feeds or not. Even when botlane feeds you still have a slim chance to lock down the fed adc, but good luck trying to lock down the sustained burst diving ap tank with lifesteal.
: So when will Wukong not be left in the gutter?
I thought they had already removed that item.
: Go take your money and fund another skin design team... Way too many champs in the game to be getting skins for them all on a regular basis, I wish people would realize that. If they doubled their skin output like everyone wants, without buying several more artists, then we'd never get another good skin again. There's more to skin than just looks and everyone cares about it all. You must consider the lore behind skins, if it was a long awaited skin, if its worth the price, make sure it's not too 'sexy' and not too 'ugly', blah blah if one little thing goes wrong the community goes into panic mode, these things take time.
> [{quoted}](name=e46 Fanatic,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=VtPvrLQk,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2019-11-08T20:37:34.749+0000) > > Way too many champs in the game to be getting skins for them all on a regular basis. There are irregular skin releases and then there is having to wait for half of league´s lifespan to maybe receive 1 quality skin. >I wish people would realize that. If they doubled their skin output like everyone wants, without buying several more artists, then we'd never get another good skin again. And I doubt anyone is even expecting Riot to support every champ somewhat equally at this point. The problem we are facing right now is that even throwing a bone to the less fortunate communities of unpopular champs has become too much to bear for Riot. And it´s in no way the community´s fault that Riot has oversaturated their own market in a goldrush of new releases. They wanted to always have something new to sell, fine, and now they have to face the consequences of a bloated champion roaster too. In the end, it´s their lack of foresight that backed them into this corner where they have to leave half of their roaster to just die while only really having time and resources for the top 30% best selling champs. personally, one decent skin for my main is all I have ever asked for and in nearly 5 year´s time Riot was apparently still unable to deliver on that. If that is not pathetic then I don´t know what is. At this point, I wonder why they even bother at all to release a skin this late. The few Zilean players I knew who would have appreciated a new skin are long gone, it won´t stop the backlash, and new players just stick to the yasuos, akalis and whatever is new. ultimately, it´s destined to fail which is probably the reason they are half-assing it into oblivion.
: I mean, that's fine with me. I play Sona all the time and assassins either dive me and waste their ult or focus a carry. Being an easy target doesn't mean the best target.
that sounds like fun.
: Bot lane: Supporting affairs
{{champion:350}} the epitome of enchanters and surprise, surprise most people hate her.
: > [{quoted}](name=CaptainAntiHeroz,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=4ZEGHvUa,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-11-07T13:26:55.146+0000) > > next thing you know they'll be calling for bees to stop existing because they make an annoying buzzing sound > > save the pandas kill the teemos thats what i say Naw bees can stay since they help pollinate plants and make honey. Fuck the wasp because they don't do shit but cause misery and they're annoying with their buzzing.
> [{quoted}](name=The Stripy Bag,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=4ZEGHvUa,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2019-11-07T20:37:38.255+0000) > > Naw bees can stay since they help pollinate plants and make honey. Fuck the wasp because they don't do shit but cause misery and they're annoying with their buzzing. But.... wasps pollinate too. {{sticker:sg-soraka}}
Rockman (NA)
: is hollow knight a good game?
No, it´s not. . . . . . it´s great!
: While a new Zilean skin would be nice, I would rather get a model update more.
> [{quoted}](name=LordForrest,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=VtPvrLQk,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-11-08T00:45:55.976+0000) > > While a new Zilean skin would be nice, I would rather get a model update more. the thing is, if Riot will only reluctantly release 1 skin after 4+ years, there is no way in hell they would spend resources on updating the base model and every old skin. But a man can dream....
: Forgotten Champions: Which champions have you not seen in months?
if I don´t play them: {{champion:432}} {{champion:26}} {{champion:427}} {{champion:1}} {{champion:115}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:44}} others {{champion:110}} {{champion:101}} {{champion:516}} {{champion:68}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:62}}{{champion:421}} {{champion:136}} {{champion:131}} edit: Jesus, the list just gets longer and longer
: Zilean Skin
great! Now we have to wait for next year to find out if the other years of waiting were all a waste of time or not. I just want to get over it at this point and Riot simply can´t stop teasing us.
Xplosion101 (EUNE)
: I hope this is bait. If it isn't, logging in just to downvote it is worthwhile.
how dare you! I would never waste everyone´s time like that! {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
Ehhhh (EUW)
: People get pissed enough when their main gets reworked, imagine the rage when they get deleted instead. They wouldn't remove champs, because thats stupid. The money and time people put in would be wasted. They are better of reworking instead of deleting.
But aren´t reworks just new champions designed to replace the old ones with the added benefit for players that they can keep their skins? And you have to see it that way. If you work on a champ and it turns out that the champ is unpopular your money and time were wasted right then and there. The question becomes do you want to continue wasting resources on something no one wants or do you cut your losses as fast as possible? I mean, dominion and co. have been deleted for a reason.
Rioter Comments
DeusVult (NA)
: Seeing the quality of all the most recent skins makes me sad for the champs that I play
{{champion:26}} is overall so outdated that every possible future skin is doomed to be subpar. Ofc, a complete overhaul is out of the question for a champ that´s not even worth making a single skin for. And that´s assuming the developers are even motivated to work on the said champ. Money aside, I get the feeling that from the 140+ champs artists at riot only really want to work on and have ideas for like 30.
: Marksmen really deserve more disengage, even if it's at the cost of their damage.
Weexazys (NA)
: Playing as and ADC has been the most frustrating, infuriating role forever.
ofc assassins get a pass because they are designed to be unhealthy. but no, it´s the supports who are the problem, by not picking soraka, lulu, or janna which we all know are the pinnacle of interesting and rewarding gameplay. If adcs had their way supports would be relegated to be ward slaves again with zero damage to not interfere in the adc dick-measuring contest in botlane.
: Could we end up seeing unpopular champs gain popularity through new game genres?
cynical me would doubt it. Taking my main as an example, old man zilean is simply a harder sell compared to samurais and ninjas no matter what genres they are competing in. You could force unpopular champs into the meta, but that doesn´t mean players will be suddenly interested in them beyond their effectiveness. And how we know riot, they will without a doubt focus on popular champions exclusively further cementing their spots in the limelight in the coming games just how they are doing it with league right now.
: Is AP Malphite not just incredibly unhealthy by design?
idk, I find that he fits perfectly well between all the other unhealthy nonsense we have to deal with. And malph as an assassin is actually pretty tame for today´s standards.
Rockman (NA)
: ah yes, an AP MF skin
I attack with silent magician
FLeXxZiz (NA)
: Nami Players Are Gay?
"there you are playing nami support and all of a sudden, you are gay." I guess you will just have to roll with it from now on.
Remus Wins (EUNE)
: All New Halloween Skins 2019
blitzcrank hands down, but mf´s skins ( not the prestige version ) looks great as well. Now, where is the zilean skin though? Do I really have to wait a full year to be disappointed?
: Are you dissatisfied with the state of the game in some way? What way? (Poll)
OP: offers a list of various different issues to choose from. Me: yes
Sihari (EUW)
: So RIOT... why exactly do we need a client to start the client now?
See! that´s what happens when you mock riot for only having one game. They got desperate and now we have to suffer the consequences.
: Life of a Support
One thing that really annoys me is when players completely disregard how often you have to bail people out of stupid situations throughout a game often dying in the process, to ensure that shutdown gold is not given out and carries have more uptime, just for the same players to turn around and being outraged about your negative kda. But that´s playing support in a nutshell, damned if you do and damned if you don´t.
FS Storm (NA)
: do you guys like autofill?
Support main: "what is this autofill you are speaking of? I don´t even know what a secondary role is."
: Annoyed? Want to troll? Want to avoid being banned? May I introduce: The Hypeman Troll Method
ohhhhh that is despicable...... {{sticker:sona-playing}} I love it! {{sticker:sg-syndra}}
: How did they make the new client somehow WORSE THAN THE LAST???
Remember when the word "update" didn´t have a negative connotation?
: Lore personalities are really interesting
the excessive rewriting just killed my interest.
: The reason a slower meta will always be better for viewership over a fast meta
I don´t believe Riot will ever slow down the game at this point. - it´s more appealing to players who can´t perform consistently - it´s more appealing to viewers with low attention spans - it´s more appealing to players with less time - you can always sell mobility as skill-intensive even in cases where it isn´t - mobility always looks flashy and entertaining ( the allure of dangling keys ) - hypermobil cancer ---> popularity ---> skin sales ---> ensured viability In the end, the few players that would prefer slower metas are just severely outnumbered and I don´t think the pro-scene viewership is much different in that regard.
teemotp (NA)
: well they buff toplaner without nerfing them so they can do it for a support nobody play
What would you say if they gave bard the teemo treatment and raised his shrine count to 5? this way you could spread them out more for escape routes, roaming, or to help out jgl/mid a bit more. right now, you usually have 2 right next to you (1 charging) and 1 you can place somewhere else, which feels very restrictive. It doesn´t solve the original problem, but it would play into his roaming and open up more possibilities for strategic shrine placement. + a quality of life change, so you can see how many shrines are still active (without having to hover over the ability), would be nice
teemotp (NA)
: the W of bard
As a Bard main, these requests for Bard´s W always make me nervous. I personally feel pretty comfortable with most of his power being located in the dmg and utility department than in healing. I get that having one ability that is so lackluster compared to all the others is annoying, but I fear that since he is not in a particularly bad spot at the moment, as far as I know, buffing his W would prompt riot to cut power away somewhere else and I don´t think moving power from the areas he excels to ones where he couldn´t compete anyway is not a good deal.
: Can Varus become a Darkin already?
hah, riot´s laziness has proven to be useful for once. {{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}} get to keep my old "generic" varus a little longer.
: #1 guy is always the luckiest.
it´s all about those {{item:1043}} {{item:1043}} {{item:1043}}
: Please sugest a good champ to otp
{{champion:157}} {{sticker:sg-syndra}} come to the dark side!
: {{champion:26}}
step1: promise a skin this year step2: let it be a victorious skin to circumvent low skin sales step3: ~~profit~~ no money wasted
: @Riot Here's an Idea I think everyone will love: Training Rooms
It´s a tragedy how useless the current "practice mode" is. One thing that I really miss is a 1v1 mode where you can practice laning and matchups with a friend. Sure you can go into a custom game, but having a tool to reset the game would be so handy.
: Almost every hypercarry has a good early. Kai is not special.
I partly blame the increase in lane sustain and the removal of runes favouring all-ins and making small trades over time pointless. People have always cited vayne´s effective range for example as a reason for why her early was called bad when her dmg was actually pretty decent and now disadvantages like that become less and less relevant as everything starts to revolve more and more around all-ins in botlane. Mage-supports nuke you out of existence with one rotation, hard engage supports still try to stun-lock you to death, and even enchanter are now geared towards stronger poke with added sustain. Not to mention that everyone takes ignite to ensure that you have enough dmg for all-ins. regardless of winrates, the way you trade with early-game bullies and late-game champs has changed tremendously compared to earlier seasons.
Hjelp (NA)
: These boards are too filled with repetitive negativity.
I liked tft and the new star guardian trailer. for me, the bad just heavily outweighs the good, makes it hard to keep a positive outlook.
Jamaree (NA)
: Watch Ducktales 2017
a modern reboot that´s good and that´s from Disney of all companies? colour me surprised.
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