Keiaga (NA)
: A tank has two jobs when they initiate. 1.)to survive 2.)to CC The major items always give the tank health, defenses, and maybe even some CDR which help with exactly that.
> [{quoted}](name=Keiaga,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f3AzspMA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-09-10T22:42:16.896+0000) > > A tank has two jobs when they initiate. > > 1.)to survive > 2.)to CC > > The major items always give the tank health, defenses, and maybe even some CDR which help with exactly that. This guy got it right and is downvoted to oblivion. > [{quoted}](name=boricCentaur1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f3AzspMA,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-09-10T22:42:44.745+0000) > > No. They need there kits buffed that is it. Tank items are fine well maybe we need more mr items but the rest are fine. Lot of jgs and top laners build them. This guy is wrong and is also downvoted to oblivion. This is one of the main reasons why LoL is fucked. A community that just loves to talk shit and downvote anything that's offends them or is too smart for them.
: > [{quoted}](name=DragonShea,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ciKaUGkF,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-27T22:40:02.631+0000) > > It is fair for one type of fighters to be tanky and have damage, they are called juggernauts and divers should be able to take a few hits but not as many as juggs or tanks, and no I don't want tanks to be juggs, their damage should be lower but in return should have good CC, utility or mobility. do you hear what you are saying? How the fuck is it fair for someone to do high damage and be hard to kill? If you and i were gonna fight irl do you think it's fair that i get iron man suit and a sword while you only get sword that can't even hurt my iron man suit? Obviously that's not fair so i dont see why you think juggernauts having both offense and high defense is fair. Because it's not.
> [{quoted}](name=overpoweredscrub,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ciKaUGkF,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-27T22:43:43.845+0000) > > do you hear what you are saying? How the fuck is it fair for someone to do high damage and be hard to kill? If you and i were gonna fight irl do you think it's fair that i get iron man suit and a sword while you only get sword that can't even hurt my iron man suit? Obviously that's not fair so i dont see why you think juggernauts having both offense and high defense is fair. Because it's not. Then you clearly don't understand the game, Look at Darius, Illaoi and Morde, they have high defensive and offensive power but they are weak to kiting or mobile champions. It's fair because they can't deal with champs that can dance around their killzone. Jugg having high damage and durability is fair, tanks having that **IS NOT!** Because that would lead to a tank meta were tanks have juggernaut or ADC/Assassin levels of damage which is something they should **NEVER** have.
: > [{quoted}](name=DragonShea,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ciKaUGkF,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-25T08:30:44.866+0000) > > I was thinking more in line of, fight a tank at a disadvantage and you'll die slowly. But tanks should have some 1v1 potential early on and have their damage fall off as they transition from the early to mid game. Some tanks should have some damage but people have it in their heads that even you mention damage and tanks, that they should be broken and OP. Being able to deal high damage and be tanky, that's what Juggernauts are for, not tanks. having damage reduction on tank items would make it difficult for fighters to use those items because they also rely on tank item to survive, just not as many as it's not their job to soak up damage for the entire team. Fix Tank damage and scaling and it will be fine. Well why are you saying it's fair for fighters to be tanky and have damage? The whole point I'm making is anyone who decides to build tanky, should have their damage reduced as a balance. It's never fair that a wukong can have both tanky stats and high damage and 1v1 a full offensive ashe. Wukong's job should not be to kill adcs or squishies. His job is to go in, soak damage, knock up 1-5 people. But you know that's not what wukongs do. They just go in and kill squishies cuz they are tanky but also do high damage. You may think it's fair for some champs to be tanky and have damage, but I don't and that's where we think different.
> [{quoted}](name=overpoweredscrub,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ciKaUGkF,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-25T17:28:43.630+0000) > > Well why are you saying it's fair for fighters to be tanky and have damage? The whole point I'm making is anyone who decides to build tanky, should have their damage reduced as a balance. It's never fair that a wukong can have both tanky stats and high damage and 1v1 a full offensive ashe. Wukong's job should not be to kill adcs or squishies. His job is to go in, soak damage, knock up 1-5 people. But you know that's not what wukongs do. They just go in and kill squishies cuz they are tanky but also do high damage. You may think it's fair for some champs to be tanky and have damage, but I don't and that's where we think different. It is fair for one type of fighters to be tanky and have damage, they are called juggernauts and divers should be able to take a few hits but not as many as juggs or tanks, and no I don't want tanks to be juggs, their damage should be lower but in return should have good CC, utility or mobility.
: why isnt armor reworked???
Cuz Riot has gotten sick of people complaining and decided to make the game their own way.
: Tank times are fine well not counting mr items. Like the problem is the champions are just bad that's it. Like a lot of champions use tank items and some tanks have been good recently meaning the problem is not with items. If the problem was items those champions would not build them. Like riot needs to buff champions like maokai or poppy and not just buff them but break them that forces people to play tanks and will change the meta. Like buff the damage early,lower the mana cost, things like that help them. Buffing items do nothing but keep the strong champions being strong.
> [{quoted}](name=boricCentaur1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ciKaUGkF,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-08-25T02:09:24.957+0000) > > Tank times are fine well not counting mr items. Like the problem is the champions are just bad that's it. > > Like a lot of champions use tank items and some > tanks have been good recently meaning the problem is not with items. If the problem was items those champions would not build them. > > Like riot needs to buff champions like maokai or poppy and not just buff them but break them that forces people to play tanks and will change the meta. > > Like buff the damage early,lower the mana cost, things like that help them. Buffing items do nothing but keep the strong champions being strong. As long as Early damage is decent as it's needed for trading and lanening. I think it's fine, just as long as it doesn't have high scaling. However Tank items are in a bad spot because they have poor item co-efficiency, so unless a tanks kit scales better with them, they would be looked into or at least get an update.
: > [{quoted}](name=DragonShea,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ciKaUGkF,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-08-24T23:03:55.634+0000) > > I think that damage scaling is key to controlling tanks's damage to ensure they don't end up killing everyone. Some Tanks should have some damage but not to the point they can one-shot. Look at {{champion:54}}, his ult does way too much damage and he has too much of his powerbudet tied to it. One way to make him more viable would be for his ult's range to scale with Armor like his passive now does, give him another 10% HP Shield+1.25% per champion hit and make it deal less damage overall to it more powerful and balanced. Lower the damage and AP scaling of all of his abilities apart from his W and make his E also grow in range based on size and armor. That would be my idea on making Malphite into a proper tank. Less damage, more utility to disrupt a team. > > You also have to remember that Riot focuses too much on damage being the main stat in the game so having tanks no longer deal insane damage is one thing, on the otherhand, damage reduction items would mess up tanks because they can't duel or win 1v1 and some tanks need to perform well as a duelist, even if they don't deal tons of damage, burst or sustain. I think if someone wants to build full tank, they shouldn't be winning 1v1 in a duel. They should be hard to kill, but not dealing damage and winning in a 1v1. That's my opinion. You don't need to win 1v1 at top, just farming and play defensive and be useful for team as a tank later on when being the frontline for teamfights, tanking baron, tanking towers, or providing crowd control to peel for your carries etc. Tanks dont need damage. If they need damage, they don't need to be tanky because having both is not fun or balanced. That's what the tank meta was. It was people building tanky but still having damage. I think attacks and abilities should not have high base damage and instead have scaling so that if you want to do damage, you need to build offensively. But if that isn't the case, then have defensive items lower your damage. Damage reduction will not mess up tanks because their job is not to duel, their job is about being a meat shield, providing utility, and crowd control. At least that's how a tank should work if they are going to be hard to kill like during the tank meta. Giving someone both high durability and high damage vs someone with just high damage but no durability is unfair.
> [{quoted}](name=overpoweredscrub,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ciKaUGkF,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-24T23:16:45.718+0000) > > I think if someone wants to build full tank, they shouldn't be winning 1v1 in a duel. They should be hard to kill, but not dealing damage and winning in a 1v1. That's my opinion. You don't need to win 1v1 at top, just farming and play defensive and be useful for team as a tank later on when being the frontline for teamfights, tanking baron, tanking towers, or providing crowd control to peel for your carries etc. Tanks dont need damage. If they need damage, they don't need to be tanky because having both is not fun or balanced. That's what the tank meta was. It was people building tanky but still having damage. I think attacks and abilities should not have high base damage and instead have scaling so that if you want to do damage, you need to build offensively. But if that isn't the case, then have defensive items lower your damage. Damage reduction will not mess up tanks because their job is not to duel, their job is about being a meat shield, providing utility, and crowd control. At least that's how a tank should work if they are going to be hard to kill like during the tank meta. Giving someone both high durability and high damage vs someone with just high damage but no durability is unfair. I was thinking more in line of, fight a tank at a disadvantage and you'll die slowly. But tanks should have some 1v1 potential early on and have their damage fall off as they transition from the early to mid game. Some tanks should have some damage but people have it in their heads that even you mention damage and tanks, that they should be broken and OP. Being able to deal high damage and be tanky, that's what Juggernauts are for, not tanks. having damage reduction on tank items would make it difficult for fighters to use those items because they also rely on tank item to survive, just not as many as it's not their job to soak up damage for the entire team. Fix Tank damage and scaling and it will be fine.
: I wrote a post about that recently. Yes I do think it's stupid that tanks who stack health, armor, magic resist still die in 5 seconds. I think tanks need to be a lot more durable but only at the cost of losing a lot of damage. There are some games where if you equip armor, it reduces that character's attack output. I think league needs tank items to make you very durable similar to during the tank meta, but as a balance, the tank item needs to reduce the amount of damage you dish out so it's not like tank meta where tank items just made you so tough but you still were able to do a lot of damage. That's why things like fizz and akali tank was good because the tank items made them durable but didn't reduce their base damage so they were hitting hard with only 1 or no offense items.
> [{quoted}](name=overpoweredscrub,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ciKaUGkF,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-24T20:57:30.825+0000) > > I wrote a post about that recently. Yes I do think it's stupid that tanks who stack health, armor, magic resist still die in 5 seconds. I think tanks need to be a lot more durable but only at the cost of losing a lot of damage. There are some games where if you equip armor, it reduces that character's attack output. I think league needs tank items to make you very durable similar to during the tank meta, but as a balance, the tank item needs to reduce the amount of damage you dish out so it's not like tank meta where tank items just made you so tough but you still were able to do a lot of damage. That's why things like fizz and akali tank was good because the tank items made them durable but didn't reduce their base damage so they were hitting hard with only 1 or no offense items. I think that damage scaling is key to controlling tanks's damage to ensure they don't end up killing everyone. Some Tanks should have some damage but not to the point they can one-shot. Look at {{champion:54}}, his ult does way too much damage and he has too much of his powerbudet tied to it. One way to make him more viable would be for his ult's range to scale with Armor like his passive now does, give him another 10% HP Shield+1.25% per champion hit and make it deal less damage overall to it more powerful and balanced. Lower the damage and AP scaling of all of his abilities apart from his W and make his E also grow in range based on size and armor. That would be my idea on making Malphite into a proper tank. Less damage, more utility to disrupt a team. You also have to remember that Riot focuses too much on damage being the main stat in the game so having tanks no longer deal insane damage is one thing, on the otherhand, damage reduction items would mess up tanks because they can't duel or win 1v1 and some tanks need to perform well as a duelist, even if they don't deal tons of damage, burst or sustain.
Rioter Comments
Rαy (EUW)
: Riot giving Annie more Damage/Mobility shows they are still clueless about League's biggest Problem
Riot just want mobility and damage in the game, if this keeps up people just want to spam damage over and over. It's clear Riot think that more damage is needed. Here is the problem, Riot don't understand that game needs champions that need to be durable and not die of the bat. I will say that they got the damage part right, they need to increase base defensive stats and buff tank items.
Bârd (NA)
: Why is Garen now more of an attack speed champion than Aatrox?
{{item:3153}} +{{item:3091}} + Conqueror = Insane healing. No seriously, He can heal up to half HP while having 3000+ HP, that's scary.
: Getting 50 armor/mr from his W was such a huge sink for his power budget, so as hilarious as it is getting that much for free, I am glad its going back to 30 so he can actually have some damage again The one big thing Ill miss, is ironically the Villian mechanic, but only for those situations when its a tank as the villian and get to see that massive 2k+ true damage execute while yelling DEMACIA
> [{quoted}](name=Jimmy Rustles,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0BUIuRJc,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-17T01:43:49.141+0000) > > Getting 50 armor/mr from his W was such a huge sink for his power budget, so as hilarious as it is getting that much for free, I am glad its going back to 30 so he can actually have some damage again > > The one big thing Ill miss, is ironically the Villian mechanic, but only for those situations when its a tank as the villian and get to see that massive 2k+ true damage execute while yelling DEMACIA 50 resistances and Good damage in exchange for range is fair in my books.
Bârd (NA)
: Why is Garen now more of an attack speed champion than Aatrox?
More AS -> more consistent damage -> less punishable downtime -> Better as a Freight Train Jugg.
: Dmg/mobility creep has become ridiculous.
Mobile champs are getting a HP creep and it's clear they will over take tankier champs soon.
Rioter Comments
Smyrage (EUNE)
: New champion/rework compromise
Unless you have a PBE medal or token that showed that you won X amount of champs or have % win rate. Then New/Reworked champs can fuck off from Ranked.
Galiö (NA)
: Galio is zero fun anymore
Should have stayed a tank/ap buster.
: Now you pay money to show off extra supposed masteries.
Great, Riot wants to scam people some more instead of fixing their game, no wonder people hate on them.
: Do tenacity runes even work? Are they placebo runes?
They need to reduce Knockback, bar certain displacement abilities such as grabs, hooks or throws.
YBaKunt (NA)
: Armor is extremely under powered. Lethalty is OP.
Too much Physical damage, too much armor pen and too little armor and anti damage items.
GigglesO (NA)
: The item is actually too good. ok Damage ok Defense Good CDR Still has Good Movement speed passive Good Armor pen Meanwhile Sunfire cape Ok defense Shit damage What else does sunfire give, oh right, nothing else.
> [{quoted}](name=GigglesO,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yPqT0Mvo,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2019-08-09T03:31:23.423+0000) > > The item is actually too good. > > ok Damage > ok Defense > Good CDR > > Still has > Good Movement speed passive > Good Armor pen > > Meanwhile > Sunfire cape > Ok defense > Shit damage > > What else does sunfire give, oh right, nothing else. Hey that gave me an Idea about Sunfire. What about it granting you a small shield up to 5% of your max HP or 12.5% of your Bonus HP when you deal damage with it's passive. That way sunfire would be more defensive focused. Don't know if that would be added to immolate or it should be sunfire exclusive.
: The Reason Tanks Aren't Played Often
Too much flat and %pen in the game, that's the issue on top of high damage.
GigglesO (NA)
: I miss Defense
If you want to deal with defense you have understand that raw durability needs to be looked into. Riot is scared of giving Tanks and some Juggs high base durability because they would be unstoppable. Well just look at how weak heal items and how close most champs are in terms of stats. Many mages are now close to melees in terms of HP and resistance are weak. Not only that but they also have to realise that. The reason why some tanks are strong is because they have actual defensive power behind their kit, shields, sustain and other means to prolong their lives in a teamfight. The devs don't like champs having raw durability, as in having 8000 HP and 400 resistance because they think that's OP, but have designed the game to focus decision making and avoiding damage, this means that tanks are not welcome because they can't get into fights unless they CC the fuck out the enemy team or peel or shut-down an engage. This is why damage and mobility has risen, because Riot want their game to be about flashy players similar to LCS, as well as them giving tanks too much damage when we just wanted them to be tanks, not bruisers in tanks armor. What should be done do deal with High damage is to increase the HP of all champs and then increase gains of defensive stats for starters. I may be a bandaid solution but it would give Riot more time to bring in better defensive items means to counter high damage champs. Not only that but also look at how many of the defensive Items are outdated and don't do their job apart from giving resistances, thats all good until they get shredded by anti-tank items. {{item:3065}} should be a HP granting and Regen boosting item instead of a MR defensive item for champs. MR Items should be reactive or grant a shield as active against burst or sustained damage like poisons Which {{item:3194}} does but needs to be stronger in terms of effect and defensive stats. As for Physical Items, well they are fucking abysmal, most of them are half-assed counters to AS and crit. {{item:3143}} may have gotten buffed but it's still not good enough as an item to deal with the raw damage there is, if anything it needs to reduce AS more from 15% for one second to 25% for 3 seconds, {{item:3075}} needs more HP and armor and the list goes on. I'll admit that damage Items are in a good spot and that should be nerfed, hell Riot does a good job with them. But the issue if that they don't know how to implement healthy defensive options without making champs OP or making tanks deal too much damage.
Cojak (NA)
: I think rammus is still niche, but overall a good example of what should be expected from a tank. Malphite is a cheese case for armor plus IBG and high ap ratios.
> [{quoted}](name=Cojak,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dEHz8H14,comment-id=000400010000,timestamp=2019-08-01T19:56:10.524+0000) > > I think rammus is still niche, but overall a good example of what should be expected from a tank. > > Malphite is a cheese case for armor plus IBG and high ap ratios. Rammus is good because he shuts down ADC's Hard. Sej and Zac are good because they can engage and CC their target while also having decent damage but it's their ults that can make or break a teamfights.
: Everything about Mordekaiser is OP
Morde needs slightly less durability, damage should stay but it's his W that makes him tough as fuck. Less durability = more chance to punish him, so he should get a nerf to HP.
: I agree, I only hope Taric gets a pass since he's a special case.
> [{quoted}](name=crippler38,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=JysHnHZd,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-07-29T20:39:15.051+0000) > > I agree, I only hope Taric gets a pass since he's a special case. Taric is cool, dude is one of the few aspects that are still himself. Leona and Diana are influenced by theirs while Pantheon was completely dominated until Atreus made him into a fucking joke by surviving a blow that killed a god and then defeating Aatrox. Afterwards Atreus-Pantheon is a human empowered by Targonian magic, similar to Morgana. Speaking of Morgana, Kayle seems to try and replace her mother as the Aspect of Justice so she may or may not become a true aspect without a body that will claim a host like the others.
Falrein (EUW)
: Who's more powerful - Ryze or Syndra?
In most fights I'd say Syndra would win because she's the mage equivalent to a berserker and wouldn't care about collateral damage. However Ryze is far more skilled and if he pulled all the stops, Syndra can kiss her sweet ass goodbye. It's more a case of conditions than power because Ryze is more powerful that he lets on I think and he has experience and restraint so it's hard to know just how powerful he is. He did manage to kill a Watcher which is an impressive feet.
Dasdi96 (NA)
: Tryndamere needs to be reworked really badly (one of the most toxic designs).
First of all, Trynda has a good escape and engage ability with his E, so he got OP mobility, second, he's an extremely binary champ, win lane and he's OP, lose and he's just gonna bot-push. finally, his ult wasn't that powerful in the past because damage wasn't that high so he didn't ignore as much damage as he does today, the meta has made his Ult OP because of damage creep so in a meta with less damage it's not that strong. the problem with Trynda is that he doesn't have any exploitable weaknesses apart from being melee and he deals a lot of damage so when he pops his ult he's free to kill anyone and then spin out and heal so he's pretty much OP in that sense of the word.
: How AP Bruiser items can exist
Riot doesn't have any real concept of stats when they made the game, so when things got more stabilized like the meta. They didn't account for AD champs having more means of dealing more damage and that AP champs didn't. Riot have to make special changes to Mages in order for those AP items to work or make bruiser items adaptive, which, may or may not ruin their itemization unless they have a kit made for it. Look at Morde now. He still builds AP items but that is because they health and health is worth far more than resistances in this meta so he can scale really well into the game, if they dont have HP they have mana and CDR. Either way both items and Kit needs to be fixed to fit a AP bruiser Identity but what would that be?
: An experience toplaners thoughts on the current state of League.
Ranged should have mosquito AD at the start of a match and then scale up better.
NY64 (NA)
: Which champions do you think truly deserve to have shield breaking?
{{champion:53}}'s ult, that was a good Idea, since he's gonna have more lockdown and touch of death moments with his ult busting shields. and it would be a hard counter to enchanters. {{champion:254}}'s Q dealing extra damage to shields, not insta-kill them. {{champion:2}}'s Ult making his AA's deal extra shield damage and his E ignores them.
Lovelle (NA)
: It's not just bruisers, mages and even assassins bring a wealth of utility/CC these days. If tank itemization actually scaled well it would help balance things out, but it doesn't. Thus, it's always better to pick a damage-dealer.
> [{quoted}](name=Lovelle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nPKsXcyR,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2019-07-18T20:45:41.485+0000) > > It's not just bruisers, mages and even assassins bring a wealth of utility/CC these days. If tank itemization actually scaled well it would help balance things out, but it doesn't. Thus, it's always better to pick a damage-dealer. Riot need to reinforce the fantasy of Wardens being defensive and protectors and Vanguards being tanks that engage and start teamfights.
JuiceBoxP (EUNE)
: The reason i think tanks are bad right now.
Tanks don't have any team impact, they no longer have what makes them relevant, No durability, Juggs are better because of their dynamic survivability and sustain. while not having as much CC but that isn't a problem because a small amount of CC is enough to insta-kill someone.
: Mord is RIDICULOUS now. Utterly ridiculous. Invincible? No. But no one, and I mean _no one_ can reliably stand toe-to-toe with him. You need someone EXTREMELY mobile like Qiyana to stand a chance.
> [{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zKkxoWHb,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-17T10:07:30.176+0000) > > Mord is RIDICULOUS now. Utterly ridiculous. Invincible? No. But no one, and I mean _no one_ can reliably stand toe-to-toe with him. You need someone EXTREMELY mobile like Qiyana to stand a chance. Or {{champion:67}} with {{item:3153}} and {{item:3124}}. She can sustain off him and roll around his Q and E with her own Ult. {{champion:23}} as well can turn the tables with his own ult and make morde his bitch inside his ult.
: Renekton is the cancer of top lane
Nerf his damage and heal, he got enough mobility to cancel most champs without getting hit.
Crashyy (EUW)
: 'Font of Life' rune is very weak.
Make it scale with level as well, that they ADC's can't really abuse it as they get gain XP slower than other classes due to duo lane in Bot.
: Riot's is nerfing ranged tops by making them progressively stronger levels 4 and up.
Riot doesn't want melees to have the extra stats needed to win fights by their own or have the sustain or durability to punish them. However Ranged making mistakes is something that should be punishable but I think their needs to be a better ranged VS melee dynamic.
: Anti mobility
Let Yoricks Wall catch people but force them to break the wall when inside.
: More reasons tank items suck atm.
Tanks should be unkillable if the enemy team doesn't build any tank buster items. Not be a free kill.
: Unfortunately, coming from you we have to just assume you mean you want to be tankier on juggernauts, with no downsides in place for them building tanks' items.
> [{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wE2Z2WxY,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-12T10:50:53.776+0000) > > Unfortunately, coming from you we have to just assume you mean you want to be tankier on juggernauts, with no downsides in place for them building tanks' items. Juggs would need a nerf if tank items are better, lower Armor scaling to ensure they build tanky afterwards because there's been a HP creep and they can't afford to have less HP grow unless ADC's can now chess and become unkillable with buffed tank items.
: I like this comment a lot it think it really gets 2 the core of the issue. Juggernauts are actively and dynamically tanky. Thier effective tankiness is dependent on thier own actions they have options/control/autonomy over how successful they are at thier ability to tank dmg/survive on the other hand, most tanks are incredibly passive in thier tankiness. They just build stats and then they lose the stat check fights bc thier tankiness isnt connected to skill/decisions/circumstance/teamwork and thus cannot adapt, rather its static and hits a ceiling hard. It feels bad 2 play tanks rn as opposed 2 Juggers bc no matter what u do u die in ways you don't have control over, tanks should feel unkillable when they build tanky and make good decisions, but they can't. I'd like to continue this discussion I hope I'm conveying my thoughts alright
> [{quoted}](name=FlameHalbrdOkido,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UwOkXPAQ,comment-id=00190000,timestamp=2019-07-12T17:50:15.832+0000) > > I like this comment a lot it think it really gets 2 the core of the issue. Juggernauts are actively and dynamically tanky. Thier effective tankiness is dependent on thier own actions they have options/control/autonomy over how successful they are at thier ability to tank dmg/survive on the other hand, most tanks are incredibly passive in thier tankiness. They just build stats and then they lose the stat check fights bc thier tankiness isnt connected to skill/decisions/circumstance/teamwork and thus cannot adapt, rather its static and hits a ceiling hard. It feels bad 2 play tanks rn as opposed 2 Juggers bc no matter what u do u die in ways you don't have control over, tanks should feel unkillable when they build tanky and make good decisions, but they can't. I'd like to continue this discussion I hope I'm conveying my thoughts alright That is true because tanks are just stats sticks and they need to have more control or defensive abilities to protect their teammates, it's not just about them surviving in teamfights but rather how their kits is designed in dealing with targets, Tanks should have outplay potential and but not have insane damage because otherwise they are just bruisers instead of defensive beast, tanks should never have high damage unless it's burst and it's under the right conditions to do so, Vanguards should have a bit more but lose utility that Wardens have. They are the engage tanks so they should have CC and Durability as their main priority with damage being a second. While Wardens should have Utility, CC and Durability. There is the problem tho, Riot's balance team and some players want to have damage be a priority for all champions even those that shouldn't have it. Let tanks at least have good base damage or the ability to stonewall and bully the enemy out of lane to last, because Top lane where some tanks go is all about stomping the lane and creating a snowball to tilt the other team into surrendering at 15, having tanks in the top lane that are viable will relive the pressure up there and prolong the game while also creating counters to the insta-kill top lane. But speaking of kits, tanks need to have reworks that makes them more viable and in control of their durability so they can last in lane. For starters, they should have low damage scaling from defensive stats and slightly better scaling from damage stats. They also should have be either niche or generalists with no proper strength. AD killers or AP killers or mixed and some with team healing or helping abilities. Some are good like {{champion:113}} {{champion:20}} {{champion:44}} and {{champion:12}} others need to have more control over their defensive kit and be less bruisery like {{champion:54}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:516}} And I don't need to talk about tank items because they are a disaster.
: Let’s look at why tanks are currently not of high value
Ok, then from a juggernauts perspective you have to look at how they've become successful in this meta despite the lack of strong tank items and more mobile melees dominating the game. Even though they are supposed to be as durable as Tanks and hit as hard as ADC's, many are now building 2-3 bruiser items when in the past, you should only get 2 max. One reason for this is because many of the strong juggs atm. {{champion:82}} {{champion:420}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:6}} have game breaking abilities and have sustain or defensive abilities that rewards them for going into fight and tearing shit up. They also build HP as well so they have the advantage of at least surviving a little longer than most to deal some damage to their target. In short, Juggs are now tankier than tanks themselves because they have better defensive abilities or sustain to keep them alive while Tanks despite building resistances are still getting killed because those resistances don't offer any real protection and durability towards things such as conqueror, overall High physical damage to the point that ADC's no longer build Armor pen to kill them.
: So umm Yorick can't summon maiden in Morde's Shadow Realm?
Yorick is boned when Hit by Morde's ult, it exposes a critical weakness he has, he's absolutely useless without ghouls or Maiden.
: Why are tanks the only role without a high impact item?
used to be {{item:3068}}+{{item:3065}} but right now armor items don't really have a high impact in the game anymore.
: Because armor is useless
> [{quoted}](name=HP Crookshanks,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MAgU5oOj,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-08T16:04:20.325+0000) > > Because armor is useless Or rather, Physical damage is too high.
: RIOT Cant Rework every single champion that u dont have fun to play against him . WTF ? Well its not fun to play against a lot of champions in the game that doesnt mean they are broken and need rework. Tryndamere has 51% winrate plat+ which is normal . not broken. u wanna know which champion is broken? {{champion:92}} is broken. and also Tryndamere has so many counters i cant even count which shut him down in laning phase . some of them : {{champion:223}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:75}} {{champion:266}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:68}} {{champion:106}}
> [{quoted}](name=jng dif victim,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oOHEeRP2,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-07-07T07:49:21.455+0000) > > RIOT Cant Rework every single champion that u dont have fun to play against him . WTF ? > Well its not fun to play against a lot of champions in the game that doesnt mean they are broken and need rework. > Tryndamere has 51% winrate plat+ which is normal . not broken. u wanna know which champion is broken? {{champion:92}} is broken. > and also Tryndamere has so many counters i cant even count which shut him down in laning phase . some of them : > {{champion:223}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:75}} {{champion:266}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:68}} {{champion:106}} If he had mana or didn't have a self-heal.
: Renekton's shield-breaking W is basically a giant "fuck you"
Only Blitzcrank should have a shield buster on his ult. Renektons is too much, instead, he should have someone I'd call "shield penetration" and it would redirect a portion of the damage done to shield targets directly to them. With 15%, a target with a 100 Shield and 100 HP would take 15 damage and the shield would take 85. and with 100% shield pen, you will deal full damage to the target even if they got a shield up. Renektons empowered W should bypass shields but not destroy them it would make {{champion:518}}'s ult and {{item:3053}}'s passive useless.
: Morde is awesome, and was not transformed into another Riven?
Aatrox needs a rework that makes his kit a hybrid of his old and current one. Q is now his 3rd Q attack and dashes a bit further. W remains the same. E is now his current passive but he fires two energy blades like his old E used to. Aatrox's actual blade can heal off all champions hit but only heals for 5% beyond the first champion hit. Ult: Q becomes Dark Flight. New passive - Warbringer: Aatrox now gains extra AS for 4 seconds when he displaces his target and is constantly refreshed when he's inside the AoE of his E.
: {{champion:23}} I’d imagine
> [{quoted}](name=Around999People,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WJOW0p44,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-06-07T04:46:19.687+0000) > > {{champion:23}} I’d imagine Yeah, trynda would mess up Morde.
5050BS (NA)
: So what champ will counter New Mord?
Anyone that can dodge his abilities or kite him. His kit revolves around bringing enemies close so he can crush them. Most other Juggs are screwed because morde is meant to be the king of all Juggernauts. that means that if you can dance around his Q and E or stall him doing his Ult he is ain't gonna last long. Ranged champs can deal with him if they can dodge his E and so can melees that can go in and then disengage such as {{champion:92}} {{champion:157}} and {{champion:58}}. Brawling with Morde is something only an idiot would do.
: Zera'Thul, really? Thats not anywhere close to the actual spelling.
> [{quoted}](name=GinoSoldier,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=AQltQYVL,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-06-03T16:04:00.664+0000) > > Zera'Thul, really? Thats not anywhere close to the actual spelling. FTFM
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DragonShea

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