Rioter Comments
: It’s not even about statistics It’s about how it feels to play a champion I want to play a long range AP champion. Yet, there Riot is perfectly fine giving too many champions insane gab closers. Why is a Camille able to dash nearly a full screen away, while still getting another gab closer from an ultimate you can’t walk away form Why give irelia gab closer easy access? Her Q can pretty much auto kill most caster minion. She doesn’t even have to wait for an opportunity. She can easily engage Why give them free true damage Playing Vel a Koz (I’m just picking Vel Koz but there are many others) does not feel either rewarding nor fun. Players are forced to play so scared that they have to hug the turret. And it gets even more frustrating knowing that those champions with hug mobility can tank turret shots with impunity. It’s ridiculous I’m on the verge of quitting It’s always the minority that gets screwed. I know Yasuo, Camille, and Yi, Lucian..etc are fun to play. Riot basically gave them all the tools to succeed. They are self reliant It’s a joke
> [{quoted}](name=xJLx MCHammer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7u7g2fE4,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-14T20:10:35.929+0000) > > It’s not even about statistics > > It’s about how it feels to play a champion > > I want to play a long range AP champion. Yet, there Riot is perfectly fine giving too many champions insane gab closers. Why is a Camille able to dash nearly a full screen away, while still getting another gab closer from an ultimate you can’t walk away form > > Why give irelia gab closer easy access? Her Q can pretty much auto kill most caster minion. She doesn’t even have to wait for an opportunity. She can easily engage > > > Why give them free true damage > > > Playing Vel a Koz (I’m just picking Vel Koz but there are many others) does not feel either rewarding nor fun. Players are forced to play so scared that they have to hug the turret. And it gets even more frustrating knowing that those champions with hug mobility can tank turret shots with impunity. > > > It’s ridiculous > > > I’m on the verge of quitting > > > It’s always the minority that gets screwed. I know Yasuo, Camille, and Yi, Lucian..etc are fun to play. Riot basically gave them all the tools to succeed. They are self reliant > > It’s a joke Because shit like Renekton can't function anymore. Renekton used to be the BAR for bruisers, now playing him can be infuriating. Try it, try being a Renekton main. You'll have the life kited out of you by champions like Gnar or Kennen, who not only have a ranged advantage, but also have high mobility and spammable cc. Then you move into teamfights and get kited out by entire teams. What people don't understand is that things like Irelia and Camille aren't overpowered, they've become the new bar - because if melee champions don't have hypermobility and lockdown in abundance, or extremely high split second burst, then they're frustrating to play and useless against anyone who plays properly.
Rioter Comments
Nankyoku (EUNE)
: You have a champion with hard CC, gap closer, huge damage, shield shredding, and sustain in one kit with high base stats and you call this thing balanced.
> [{quoted}](name=Nankyoku,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zWjEJEbZ,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-14T10:20:11.211+0000) > > You have a champion with hard CC, gap closer, true damage, shield shredding, and sustain in one kit with high base stats and you call this thing balanced. Irelia has true damage? _Where._ Better nerf the only two bruisers who are still competitive into the ground, right? Because God forbid that Bruisers are ever good. Meanwhile Shaco + WW been sitting at a 52-54% WR for the past 8 months with barely any changes. herp derp. Kai'Sa still dominating botlane basically since release. Janna, Morg and Nami sporting some of the highest wr/playrates in the game for multiple patches rn. But no, better nerf the only two champions in an entire class who can actually function decently.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=ExternalLink,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PIEH8lpd,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-05-28T14:37:51.869+0000) > > Despite this, neither champion has an absurd winrate. Irelia sits at 50% wr and Yasuo has a 47% winrate. > They both, however, have something major in common that is likely the cause of their extremely high ban-rate; > They're EXTREMELY good at countering ranged champions, and probably exist as the undisputed best when it comes to Melee Vs Ranged interactions. Yasuo can (when in a decent spot), do well against ranged champions from level 1, and Irelia is reliably effective at taking out ranged targets in teamfights. (She's always been good at it, but now she's super good at it and in turn, has sacrificed some of the skirmisher bruiser vs bruiser power that her previous iteration had) > > My theory; > The hate that Yasuo gets, dare I say it, is actually quite unwarranted. > The reason people hate Yasuo with such vitriol is because he disturbs an imbalance that has existed for years in League of Legends: > Ranged Champions hold an inherent and arguably unfair advantage over melee. > Yasuo and Irelia however deny this, as their hyper-mobile kits allow them to stick to a ranged champion like glue when certain conditions are met. > This requires the ranged champion to adopt an atypical playstyle to deal with them; > At lower levels, players might struggle with the mechanics or mindset necessary to play against these champs - leading them to cry Broken, Brainless or OPed. > At higher levels, while players can quite easily shift in playstyles, they might still resent the fact that they have been required to do so in the first place. > > Meanwhile Melees have been forced to deal with aids like Vayne top since time immemorial. /post You mean that site that has in its Top 10 Bans, a specially listed rate of 4.18% for LeBlanc Support?
> [{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PIEH8lpd,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-05-28T15:14:28.227+0000) > > You mean that site that has in its Top 10 Bans, a specially listed rate of 4.18% for LeBlanc Support? You're right, it should be top 2/3 spots, not top 4/5 since it's a duplicate. Still a point to it.
: you can kill someone 1000 times but if you dont get towers you wont win the game. On the other hand someone can die 1000 times but as long as they get towers they will win.
> [{quoted}](name=Afr0Sam,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EekB8bee,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-05-28T00:59:13.135+0000) > > you can kill someone 1000 times but if you dont get towers you wont win the game. On the other hand someone can die 1000 times but as long as they get towers they will win. Wrong. As long as they get the Nexus they will win.
Rioter Comments
: In what way are bruisers slighted by the existence of Ardent? In what way is _any class_ slighted by the existence of Ardent?
> [{quoted}](name=Sonic132,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kOnnXpGt,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-05-28T02:13:36.437+0000) > > In what way are bruisers slighted by the existence of Ardent? > In what way is _any class_ slighted by the existence of Ardent? Are you being SERIOUS? 'In what ways is any class slighted by the existence of another class having an overpowered, extremely gold efficient item.'
TheShinx (NA)
: now out of curiosity how the hell did you get it's 380.08% Gold Efficient? I would like to see the math.
> [{quoted}](name=TheShinx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kOnnXpGt,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-28T00:47:43.126+0000) > > now out of curiosity how the hell did you get it's 380.08% Gold Efficient? I would like to see the math. Pretty simple, I checked a database. Gold Value 60 ability power = Gold 1305 50% mana regeneration = Gold 250 10% cooldown reduction = Gold 266.67 10% heal and shield power = Gold 354.17 8% movement speed = Gold 316 Total Gold Value = Gold 2491.84 Ally Buff Value at level 1 10% attack speed = Gold 250 5 on-hit damage = Gold 125 Gold Value = Gold 375 Total Gold Value (1 ally + caster buffed) = Gold 3241.84 Ally Buff Value at level 18 30% attack speed = Gold 750 20 on-hit damage = Gold 500 Gold Value = Gold 1250 Total Gold Value (1 ally + caster buffed) = Gold 4991.84 Gold Efficiency* Ardent Censer item Ardent Censer is 108.34% gold efficient without its passive effects. Ardent Censer item Ardent Censer becomes 140.95% - 217.04% gold efficient if a single ally (and the caster) is buffed by its passive. Ardent Censer item Ardent Censer becomes 189.86% - 380.08% gold efficient if four allies (and the caster) are buffed by its passive.
Rioter Comments
: Another Yasou thread. (though actually not QQ!)
The real reason people don't like Yasuo? This is, and has been, a ranged dominant game for the past several seasons yet Yasuo exists as THE best champion at disturbing this imbalance from as early as level 1, while also scaling extremely while.
Rioter Comments
: People seem to have forgotten how utterly toxic the game used to be
Right now we have Kha Zix perma-stealthing through Jungle into your lane; Junglers hard camping lanes without falling behind due to catch-up experience; ADCs 3 hitting squishies; supports perma-shielding ADCs for half their health; AOE team heals; Baron turning normal minions into siege minions and siege minions into super minions; Jhin hitting over 2k AD with rageblade; Shaco and Warwick have managed to consistently hit a 52-54% winrate for over a year; Enchanters can currently negate the damage of entire teams to keep an out-of-place ADC alive; Bruisers didn't even have a keystone until a month or so ago; Tanks now have kill pressure in lane (and often over Bruisers at that, a Season 4 player would scream BS if he heard such news); Mages mana bar had basically become resourceless up until a couple patches ago; Lethality; Duskblade; Crit Items insanely cheap and achieving their synergy spike at one and a half items; Bruiser items the most expensive in the game while having some of the weakest synergy spikes; Baron deciding game; RNG drakes granting up to 24% AD/AP (compare that to Havoc, the pinnacle of the ferocity tree which gave a 3% damage increase); Keystones give insanely high damage (press the attacks 12% vs Havoc's 3%), every Jungler now has the lane access that once existed as the sole realm of mobile-junglers; and the list continues... Personally I'd take the latter part of season 4 or any non-cinderhulk/smitewick iteration of Season 5 over this crap.
: What you seem to not realize is that all of these "gimmicks" offer varying new strategies that need to be played around and considered. Keystones -- These offer windows of power that need to be used properly by the person with the keystone as well as the enemy. Some keystones emphasize this great, such as Conqueror, Fleet Footwork, Lethal Tempo, Aftershock, Guardian, Electrocute, Predator, and Phase Rush. Each one of these has a time slot they can be used and is signaled to both the user and the opponent, allowing for them to play around it. Should someone waste the window their keystone offers then the enemy can engage knowing the enemy is not at full strength. Some keystones, however, could really use improvement. These include Press the Attack, Grasp of the Undying, Kleptomancy, Glacial Augment, and whatever that middle one in Domination that no one uses is...Dark Harvest? These ones are more or less just there and don't have much opportunity to play around (could maybe argue for Glacial Augment with the part tied to item actives). Jungle Plants -- Every single one has a set of locations they can be, with indicators for when they will spawn (go on LoL Wiki it's well described there, about a 1 minute pre-spawn indicator) and have their necessary uses. Blast Cone is one that can be used to screw over and enemy or save yourself or an ally during a fight, used to jump over walls in the jungle to increase mobility, attempt to steal an objective, or some niche interactions like using it to hurt someone with Taliyah's E. And this can be played around by understanding when they are available and adjusting your play for such reason. These plants have enabled much greater variety in the jungle for champions and it is lovely. Honeydew plant can be used to heal up after a fight or jg clear, slow down an enemy chasing you, or even make the scuttler come to you so it's easier to secure. Scrying Plant doesn't have too many uses, but can be nice to help ensure from far away you aren't being invaded or have wards in your jungle, keep an eye on some key objectives, or check brushes without getting too close. But again, these are all things to be played around and need to be taken into consideration. Drakes -- The drakes I feel are a great addition to the game, each one has their own use cases (aside from Infernal, that one is a bit too generalized). Ocean can be used to play more aggressive or safe, knowing you can sustain a bit when out of combat, Cloud Drake makes for better roaming and feeling safe to back knowing you can return to the team faster, Mountain Drake let's you take objectives faster, allowing for potential split pushing pressure not there previously. FB Tower -- Causes teams to consider where to place pressure and resources to get that first tower gold, or protect their own tower under pressure. This could be done in a better way (especially with bot tower being the squishiest, makes for the need of too much pressure in bot). Baron -- Baron buff hasn't changed much over the years, and the changes Riot is making are definitely for the better by making its damage more AoE so that a single tank isn't enough to take Baron fast early on. It's still the same end game necessity to go against anti-siege comps specifically, otherwise the best teams would always just want an Anivia or Ziggs. Even then those two are still pretty effective vs. Baron minions, just not AS effective.
> [{quoted}](name=Frost Fae,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eTOu5dng,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2018-04-30T15:48:43.835+0000) > > What you seem to not realize is that all of these "gimmicks" offer varying new strategies that need to be played around and considered. > > Keystones -- These offer windows of power that need to be used properly by the person with the keystone as well as the enemy. Some keystones emphasize this great, such as Conqueror, Fleet Footwork, Lethal Tempo, Aftershock, Guardian, Electrocute, Predator, and Phase Rush. Each one of these has a time slot they can be used and is signaled to both the user and the opponent, allowing for them to play around it. Should someone waste the window their keystone offers then the enemy can engage knowing the enemy is not at full strength. Some keystones, however, could really use improvement. These include Press the Attack, Grasp of the Undying, Kleptomancy, Glacial Augment, and whatever that middle one in Domination that no one uses is...Dark Harvest? These ones are more or less just there and don't have much opportunity to play around (could maybe argue for Glacial Augment with the part tied to item actives). > > Jungle Plants -- Every single one has a set of locations they can be, with indicators for when they will spawn (go on LoL Wiki it's well described there, about a 1 minute pre-spawn indicator) and have their necessary uses. Blast Cone is one that can be used to screw over and enemy or save yourself or an ally during a fight, used to jump over walls in the jungle to increase mobility, attempt to steal an objective, or some niche interactions like using it to hurt someone with Taliyah's E. And this can be played around by understanding when they are available and adjusting your play for such reason. These plants have enabled much greater variety in the jungle for champions and it is lovely. > Honeydew plant can be used to heal up after a fight or jg clear, slow down an enemy chasing you, or even make the scuttler come to you so it's easier to secure. > Scrying Plant doesn't have too many uses, but can be nice to help ensure from far away you aren't being invaded or have wards in your jungle, keep an eye on some key objectives, or check brushes without getting too close. But again, these are all things to be played around and need to be taken into consideration. > > Drakes -- The drakes I feel are a great addition to the game, each one has their own use cases (aside from Infernal, that one is a bit too generalized). Ocean can be used to play more aggressive or safe, knowing you can sustain a bit when out of combat, Cloud Drake makes for better roaming and feeling safe to back knowing you can return to the team faster, Mountain Drake let's you take objectives faster, allowing for potential split pushing pressure not there previously. > > FB Tower -- Causes teams to consider where to place pressure and resources to get that first tower gold, or protect their own tower under pressure. This could be done in a better way (especially with bot tower being the squishiest, makes for the need of too much pressure in bot). > > Baron -- Baron buff hasn't changed much over the years, and the changes Riot is making are definitely for the better by making its damage more AoE so that a single tank isn't enough to take Baron fast early on. It's still the same end game necessity to go against anti-siege comps specifically, otherwise the best teams would always just want an Anivia or Ziggs. Even then those two are still pretty effective vs. Baron minions, just not AS effective. I personally don't believe that Jungle plants are strategical, they're more tactical and do in fact detract from more strategic play. For instance, decisions such as am I going to pick a Jungle who's good at circumventing wards and has strong lane access and play for an early lead, or will I pick a Jungler who's more gated in these aspects but scales harder/teamfights better. How will I route in my Jungle? Will I sacrifice placing vision to pick up a sweeper so that I can threaten lanes better? Am I paying attention to when the enemy wards and where they ward, or will I simply click on this little plant thingy and invalidate all such planning, both that of my enemies, and planning that I used to engage in and made Jungling more challenging. Drakes are straight RNG and I feel like that, in and of itself, detracts from any real strategical analysis that could be made in their defense. If there was a way to influence which Drake spawned then maybe you could more feasibly make such an argument. Also, you've literally just stated that Drakes 'cover weaknesses and amplify strengths'. You know another term for that? Generalisation. Generalisation is bad for player experience, people like distinction and it's necessary for the health of the game. Where Generalisation could be consider is good is the LCS, though. Scrying Plant is imo a cheap and easy way to light up the map. Vision should be something that is invested in, not something that you gain access to by slapping a plant real quick. I honestly hate Keystones. I hate everything about them. They've contributed to every kind of creep, distorted the strengths and weaknesses of classes, and made it easier to snowball, but harder to snowball well. What I mean by this is that when everyone does more damage, it's the person who does the most damage that is making the least of it. Reason being is that the person with the biggest lead will eventually hit a point where he's 'over-killing' people, which is a waste. Meanwhile his enemies do more damage to him, so they're effectively getting more out of their damage than the person who is ahead is. And just so we're both on the same page here, compare Havoc, the pinnacle of the old ferocity tree, that granted 3% damage increase, to Press the Attack, which grants a 12% damage increase as well as a burst of base damage. Consider further, that Press the Attack isn't even the strongest Mastery damage wise. Keystones such as aery, thunderlords, conquerers and comet will regularly out-damage it. I much preferred the old runes and mastery system which granted more nuanced, but still effective, and actually far more customisable strengths to the user.
: It's very hard to read your post, can you add a line of space between the paragraphs?
> [{quoted}](name=AquariusGine,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eTOu5dng,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-04-29T22:25:25.159+0000) > > It's very hard to read your post, can you add a line of space between the paragraphs? Done. :D
Rioter Comments
Bârd (NA)
: 1. Maokai has one of the worst laning phases out of all tanks, with no kill pressure to speak of unless he gets ganks or some idiot tries to towerdive him without a plan. It's all he can do to just farm up, and even for that he has to get the backline with saplings half the time; that's why it was such a huge nerf when they removed Sapling impact damage. 2. Maokai has sustain, but it's not just passive regen. He has to get in melee range to use it, leaving him open to harass. If his opponent keeps up the pressure, he won't be gaining HP from his passive. It's one of the best heals in the game later on, but trying to use it early if you're chunked will usually result in you getting killed or forced to back.
> [{quoted}](name=Bârd,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=goVad1sy,comment-id=0002000000010000,timestamp=2018-04-28T06:41:11.116+0000) > > 1. Maokai has one of the worst laning phases out of all tanks, with no kill pressure to speak of unless he gets ganks or some idiot tries to towerdive him without a plan. It's all he can do to just farm up, and even for that he has to get the backline with saplings half the time; that's why it was such a huge nerf when they removed Sapling impact damage. > 2. Maokai has sustain, but it's not just passive regen. He has to get in melee range to use it, leaving him open to harass. If his opponent keeps up the pressure, he won't be gaining HP from his passive. It's one of the best heals in the game later on, but trying to use it early if you're chunked will usually result in you getting killed or forced to back. > Tanks > Kill Pressure Wewewewewew. Bring back the Renekton-Bar.
: > [{quoted}](name=ExternalLink,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h0gIM8i0,comment-id=00070001000000010000,timestamp=2018-04-21T09:12:31.846+0000) > > Exactly, because it doubles down on the fact that most ADCs stat check their opponent and makes them even more obnoxious than they already are. > Or maybe we should just double the stats in every Bruisers kit instead? You dodged my question. Why shouldn't Supports be allowed to build stats like every other role? If the problem is adc, then address ADC or the synergy of roles.
> [{quoted}](name=ChaddyFantome,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h0gIM8i0,comment-id=000700010000000100000000,timestamp=2018-04-25T03:24:36.085+0000) > > You dodged my question. > Why shouldn't Supports be allowed to build stats like every other role? > If the problem is adc, then address ADC or the synergy of roles. Because supports should revolve around denying windows of opportunity or precision based applications of CC/peel to protect a teammate. Not just a 'lul look muh stats, watch me permanently shield muh ADC for half their health.' Or a 'look how tanky i am, watch me beat you with muh shield and bodyblock for my adc while taking no dmg cuz lul, so tanky.'
: I feel like LCS should just have its own game.
> [{quoted}](name=Dope Solo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A8imA2AV,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-04-28T20:39:44.541+0000) > > I feel like LCS should just have its own game. Give this man my money
Onotori (NA)
: Riven has loads of damage, mobility and CC in her kit on top of an AD scaling shield. Of course her shield is going to be weaker than a champ who does nothing but keep people alive, and can't really exist on their own.
> [{quoted}](name=Konotori,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EneiL83y,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-04-28T01:08:47.929+0000) > > Riven has loads of damage, mobility and CC in her kit on top of an AD scaling shield. Of course her shield is going to be weaker than a champ who does nothing but keep people alive, and can't really exist on their own. She's also squishy, has one of the worst health regenerations in the game, has to build damage to do damage, and is melee.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=ExternalLink,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h0gIM8i0,comment-id=000700010000,timestamp=2018-04-11T10:26:31.409+0000) > > New ones with more skill expression and windows of power (and counterplay) can be added. So Supports should just not be allowed to build stats, like every other role now? um.. Why?
> [{quoted}](name=ChaddyFantome,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h0gIM8i0,comment-id=0007000100000001,timestamp=2018-04-21T04:14:33.546+0000) > > So Supports should just not be allowed to build stats, like every other role now? > um.. Why? Exactly, because it doubles down on the fact that most ADCs stat check their opponent and makes them even more obnoxious than they already are. Or maybe we should just double the stats in every Bruisers kit instead?
Sasogwa (EUW)
: Think about one change that would completely destroy the meta as we know it
: New Irelia Vs Old Irelia
Personally, the one thing I don’t like about the new Irelia is how her Q has become such a loaded ability. In a 1v1 old Irelia should win.
: Meanwhile at Riot HQ
#BringBackMorello
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Leetri (EUW)
: He's not invisible :^)
> [{quoted}](name=Leetri,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X3lzVdol,comment-id=0001000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-04-19T13:00:26.056+0000) > > He's not invisible :^) Neither is Rengar. :^)
: Is anyone having fun?
Started playing Rengar again so I could run around instagibbing ADCs and Enchanter supports. Am having fun again :D
Rioter Comments
: The point is both feel terrible to play against regardless of how fun or unfun they are to play. IMO anything that one shots from invisibility is obnoxious.
> [{quoted}](name=Corrupt Bliss,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X3lzVdol,comment-id=00010000000000000001,timestamp=2018-04-19T06:39:44.884+0000) > > The point is both feel terrible to play against regardless of how fun or unfun they are to play. IMO anything that one shots from invisibility is obnoxious. So can we delete Twitch then?
Rioter Comments
: Bot lane it's not the problem. It's a consequence of a even bigger problem.
I made a thread titled 'Runes Reforged is Garbage and creates more problems than it can ever solve' about a week ago; https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/FYIHMWTn-runes-reforged-is-garbage-and-creates-more-problems-than-it-can-ever-solve?show=nested While I admit that the OP post read a bit like bad click bait, to my surprise a Rioter responded and said that it needed to 'be reframed before a Rioter or another member could even begin to approach the topic', which isn't exactly true, you can still tackle the point of something even if you find the format dislikeable or obnoxious. But, I obliged and reframed it anyways, and surprise surprise, he never replied again. I also can't help but shake the suspicion that some of the posters in that thread might have been plants. Someone literally hit me with 'show me the statistics' as the first reply. H-how am I meant to do that when Riot literally doesn't release such data?
: What if killing an enemy under baron buff gives you baron buff?
I disagree with it being a standard kill trade thing. What WOULD be cool though, is if getting a multi-kill against a team with Baron buff gave it to you. Double-kill at least, with the time on your baron buff extending for triple, quad, or penta kills.
: I mean does he even really counter them anymore though? {{item:3194}} helm is a viable option in any Bruiser built and effectively makes the game a 4v5 with how much of a threat Teemo would be.
> [{quoted}](name=Timely Voidling,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XVU9F8E8,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-04-13T21:59:37.670+0000) > > I mean does he even really counter them anymore though? {{item:3194}} helm is a viable option in any Bruiser built and effectively makes the game a 4v5 with how much of a threat Teemo would be. That's an item they won't get until they're far along into their build... The very premise of playing something like Teemo is that you aim to build enough of a lead early and deprive the enemy of enough resources so that your lead is either always maintained, or the game closes out before your opponent can begin to scale.
Salson (EUNE)
: Well on one hand, your points are spot on. The amount of dumbasess who think they can outright demand a gank is astounding. On the other hand, most of us complain about the frequency and intensity ganks. This is because both losing and wining trough Jungle pressure feels so pointless. When the enemy Jungler camps you, it's entirely possible to win with 50%+ survival rate. Dieing often feels like shit, but if the enemy Jungler has to gank you 7 bloody times to do so, you're still doing a good job. Your Jungler got 2 Drakes and your Bot lane is snowballed to hell so you now have 90% chance to win.....still feels like shit. On the other hand, setting up and coordinating ganks feels very much like you're playing Robin to your Jungler's Batman. And no sane person should be content with being someones sidekick. Some of us just want to play the bloody game.
> [{quoted}](name=Salson,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YwEQKHzE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-04-13T14:38:37.871+0000) > > Well on one hand, your points are spot on. > The amount of dumbasess who think they can outright demand a gank is astounding. > > On the other hand, most of us complain about the frequency and intensity ganks. > This is because both losing and wining trough Jungle pressure feels so pointless. > > When the enemy Jungler camps you, it's entirely possible to win with 50%+ survival rate. > Dieing often feels like shit, but if the enemy Jungler has to gank you 7 bloody times to do so, you're still doing a good job. > Your Jungler got 2 Drakes and your Bot lane is snowballed to hell so you now have 90% chance to win.....still feels like shit. > > On the other hand, setting up and coordinating ganks feels very much like you're playing Robin to your Jungler's Batman. > And no sane person should be content with being someones sidekick. > > Some of us just want to play the bloody game. In an ideal world your Jungler got 2 drake and is snowballed to hell... Most of the time as a Top Laner I'll see Jungle pressure focused on me, and my bot lane still losing. =_= Triple kill! Yea, tilt worthy.
: How to make your lane gankable -your jungler.
> [{quoted}](name=Shadowmender,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4xQjrNZy,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-04-13T04:58:10.313+0000) > > In response to the ceaseless complaining about not having ganks, here are some guidelines to make you more likely to get ganks. > > 1. Don't mindlessly shove your lane. When the only way I could ever reach your enemy laners is by diving them, you're not getting a gank, unless I'm far ahead, and relatively tanky. > 1.5 Oh. And you make your lane a juicy target for enemy ganks. But when there are 3 lanes doing this shit, it's kinda hard to know which free kill they are going to go after. > > 2. Have any sort of CC. Like any kind. Even a slow might be enough to blow your lane's flash. > > Thank you. Have a nice lane.{{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}} You could also walk through lane brushes and wait for the counter-gank or hard engage. But that requires actual foresight, prediction and strategical planning, so I can see how that might be a problem.
: i think irelia's actually the best vgu so far and I like her hard-scaling power curve
I like her rework (and I probably have close to a thousand old Irelia games under my belt), but her numbers do need adjusting a bit. Currently Irelia is pretty garbage at dueling, but in return is quite possibly the best Diver in the game (Scratch that, Camille is still better). However, PBE nerfs imply that Riot is planning on reducing her Diving power, and hitting her scaling a bit... This would feel acceptable if not for the fact that Irelia's early, and dueling power against certain champions, feels kinda trash. (Things like Nasus, which you could previously beat, basically steam-roll you automatically now) Give her a 100% AD scaling on her Q and i'll be happy though. I think it's the fact that her Q does less damage than her autos up until rank 3 that bothers me. I'd personally also kill for her passive to deal true damage instead of magic...but that's probably just a pipe dream at this point.
: > [{quoted}](name=ExternalLink,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FYIHMWTn,comment-id=00000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-12T15:39:41.022+0000) > > Now you're just circle jerking. lol. No you just can't admit you have no argument, only opinions
> [{quoted}](name=SkyeMoon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FYIHMWTn,comment-id=000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-12T16:12:19.335+0000) > > No you just can't admit you have no argument, only opinions I posted something new that has a less snarky tone, take a look bud. :)
: Reframing this so that a player, or a rioter could even begin to approach this as a topic would probably do you good. As it is right now there is a lot of opinion stated as facts. Saying your opening up a conversation is extremely disengenous if you take even a tiny look at the tone used here.
> [{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FYIHMWTn,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-04-12T04:05:25.763+0000) > > Reframing this so that a player, or a rioter could even begin to approach this as a topic would probably do you good. As it is right now there is a lot of opinion stated as facts. Saying your opening up a conversation is extremely disengenous if you take even a tiny look at the tone used here. What I'm saying is that Runes Reforged is a flashy gimmick. The flaws of the old (Prior to Keystones) Rune-page/Mastery system were blatant, Rune Pages and Runes were expensive, which gated choice and accessibility, especially for new players. There was nothing more painful than having to choose to buy a new Rune Page over a flashy new champion. The Benefits of Runes Reforged is that it's completely free - you can edit your runes in champion select (something that people were asking for for years), so being forced to buy new rune pages for champion or build path variation is now a thing of the past. The down side is that it's accelerated something that has been fatal to the meta and enjoy-ability of many games - damage creep. The final mastery available in the old Rune System's offensive tree was Havoc, which allowed for 3% damage amplification. Compare that to today's Thunderlord, which allows for 50-220 base damage + 50% bonus ad or 30% AP, and it becomes painstakingly easily to see why people on boards are constantly complaining about damage being too high. Especially when you consider that some other Keystones grant as much, if not even more damage depending on the champions kit. You could argue that that's offset by the introduction of runes such as Summon Aery and other defensive masteries. But now we've landed in a precarious situation where Runes Reforged now has a sizeable impact on the balance of the game. The old Runes/Masteries were important, yes, but very rarely so important that champions actually had to be balanced around them. Now, however, Riot has to embark on the delicate task of balancing champions, itemisation, and Runes Reforged all at once - because if one falls out of sync, you end up with things such a pre-nerf Klepto GP top. Another example of this is Bruisers, who fell out of favour massively and required a new Rune to be introduced just for them. (and even then, you can still argue that their needs still aren't being entirely met since, as I'm sure you're aware, the balance of Top Lane is still a much complained about issue) Or even champions such as Fiddlesticks who, with the jungle changes and Runes Reforged changes, simply can't function as they once could. He relies on sustain so the universal increase in burst, as well as the fact that there isn't really a rune that he truly synergises with, has left Fiddlesticks mains wanting. And this is just a focus on the Keystones, the secondary Runes are arguably even more of a problem. Runes such as Bone Plating, Second Wind, Mana Flow Band and Commencing Stop Watch have really only served to minimise the weaknesses that were imposed on them by the previous balance team while accentuating their strengths, but in turn limiting skill expression. For example, commencing stopwatch had to be nerfed multiple times because it negatively impacted on the meaningful choices that an early game champion, or early game focused role could make. I remember one Korean clip where a fight broke out at level 4 botlane with like 8 people involved,and nearly every single one of them used stop-watch and essentially made the plays made by the other teams meaningless. Similarly, with it, a champion such as Orianna could double-down on her advantage as a notoriously safe-pick, and effectively become immune to the engages of assassins such as Zed or Talon - with a single rune meaningful agency has been taken from them. Meanwhile Mana flow band for some reason allows Mana champions to spam their abilities without hesitation...so Orianna who was once gaited by mana now isn't, and is effectively pseudo-resource-less, now agency has been removed in two ways. Commencing Stopwatch removes the reward of targeting her health pool, while Manaflow band prevents you from fighting with her resource bar. I'm not using this as an example to specifically point the finger at Orianna as something that's balanced/imbalanced...but this kind of distortion of what should be meaningful strengths and weaknesses of champions/classes can be seen throughout Runes Reforged, such as certain runes negating the weak early that tanks traditionally should suffer from, which is honestly bad balance since such trends are not only frustrating to play against, but can also require for target nerfing of certain champions or items because they synergise too well, even though they are otherwise balanced. As for Kleptomancy, why Riot would introduce an RNG rune when they've historically had trouble balancing other RNG mechanics such as Dodge and Crit (Dodge was rightfully removed, and Crit has been complained about basically since its inception) is beyond me. I don't want to type anymore.
: > [{quoted}](name=ExternalLink,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FYIHMWTn,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2018-04-12T14:48:39.777+0000) > > If you don't like it, counter-act me. What you're doing is even worse, you're trying to claim that what I've said holds no validity simply because of the format that it's been presented in. Me screaming something is one thing, but you trying to be dismissive of what I'm proposing simply because I've screamed it is another. Dude even a Rioter called you out on your BS.
> [{quoted}](name=SkyeMoon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FYIHMWTn,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2018-04-12T15:08:07.137+0000) > > Dude even a Rioter called you out on your BS. Now you're just circle jerking. lol.
: It's the latter for sure. No "discussion", just "my word is law"
> [{quoted}](name=SkyeMoon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FYIHMWTn,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-04-12T02:36:28.632+0000) > > It's the latter for sure. No "discussion", just "my word is law" If you don't like it, counter-act me. What you're doing is even worse, you're trying to claim that what I've said holds no validity simply because of the format that it's been presented in. Me screaming something is one thing, but you trying to be dismissive of what I'm proposing simply because I've screamed it is another.
: Runes reforged is garbage and creates more problems than it can ever solve.
Forgot to mention Mana-flow band. Because obviously the reason for Mages having such a resource bar in the first place was so that it's downsides could be invalidated with a single Mastery, right?
: Do you have an indepth analysis of the stats now vs the stats with the previous masteries + runes? Are you just complaining for the sake of complaining? It isn't like the old masteries didn't have balance issues where you could just list them out and yell 'BS! OP! CANCER!'
> [{quoted}](name=Hethalean,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FYIHMWTn,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-04-12T01:00:12.110+0000) > > Do you have an indepth analysis of the stats now vs the stats with the previous masteries + runes? Are you just complaining for the sake of complaining? It isn't like the old masteries didn't have balance issues where you could just list them out and yell 'BS! OP! CANCER!' Bro I ain't doing that. It's a discussion. If you want statistics, go pull them up yourself. I've made an observation and opened up a discussion about it, that's about it. Not everyone is good at math, but I don't have to be a math whiz or a human calculator to tell you that Electrocute, on it's own, provides more damage than any singular aspect of the old rune/mastery system.
  Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Its a terrible build path tho and its counting on the champ having an AA within there combo.
> [{quoted}](name=Pink Leg Warmers,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A0TEhvdV,comment-id=000500010000,timestamp=2018-04-11T18:41:36.134+0000) > > Its a terrible build path tho and its counting on the champ having an AA within there combo. Really? Because at one point or another Lich Bane has been rushed on Fizz, Diana, Midalee and even Ekko.
: yeh its hard to compare it to {{item:3147}} , not that I'm saying ap assasins should get an item like this
> [{quoted}](name=Pink Leg Warmers,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A0TEhvdV,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-04-10T22:16:50.879+0000) > > yeh its hard to compare it to {{item:3147}} , not that I'm saying ap assasins should get an item like this Lich Bane is pretty similar damage wise tbf. And it's what a lot of AP assassins have been balanced around since time immemorial...huh...maybe that's where Riot got the idea from.
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