Eunson (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=TrusTeemo,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=031Hd0po,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-05-25T17:50:24.292+0000) > > > The skill Gap is huge. A player with 7 games played and 9% winrate in the same game when the other team has Silver III and Silver IV players with 400 games played. I feel like a silver with 400+ games is at the same skill level as an iron player. The skill gap really doesn't change much. iron-Gold is the same. Plat is below iron-gold. diamond is meh, the game really starts getting skill gaps in D1+; everything else is basically the same.
> [{quoted}](name=Eunson,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=031Hd0po,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-05-25T19:30:04.874+0000) > > I feel like a silver with 400+ games is at the same skill level as an iron player. The skill gap really doesn't change much. iron-Gold is the same. Plat is below iron-gold. diamond is meh, the game really starts getting skill gaps in D1+; everything else is basically the same. Just because a dimaond player cannot tell the difference between iron and gold doesnt mean that there is no difference. Gold players generally tend to have far better mechanic, better decision making,are slightely more prone to teamwork and are better overall (duh) compared to even lower silver players. What you are saying here is the same as challengers who constantly make fun of diamond players becaue they themselves are far better. This shaming mentality needs to go. You can discredit people as much as you want but if you were to place 5 gold players vs 5 Iron players I think we both know which team would win. Same applies for diamond vs plats and challenger vs diamond.
: So is climbing based on skill or is based on whom you get as team mates?
I think you need to reformulate your question, because the current answer is both. And while it does take both skill and luck to climb the real issue though is that it is not 50-50 but more like 80-20 in favor of who you are queued with. What I mean by this is that bad players will still struggle to climb even if they get good teams because they dont know how to play around their team and make the most of them even if they themselves are behind (solo carry mentality). meanwhile a good player will know to chill and play safe if they have other winning lanes (so as to not be the reason the team loses) and will actually listen to and make good shot calling. So basically, while bad players cant really climb through sheer luck the problem here is that no matter how good you yourself are, there is no guarantee that you will ever climb because in the end you are just 1 out of 4 players and you have no control over whether ot not they play well or even listen to your shot calling. Hence the 80-20 Im talking about.
Nice Try (NA)
: Thank you for the memories Riot Games Im sorry i couldnt improve and be less toxic. (Please Read)
Not saying that you punishement is not deserved, because it is. But I do believe that imho the system should be changed so that Chat related toxicity results in chat related bans, while gameplay related toxicity (inting, trolling, afk) results in in-game bans. At least as far as permabanning someone goes that is.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Or, wait in the fog of war till the enemy carry gets low, jump over a wall, throw w at them, Wait for it to recall. Flash if the enemy jukes your w second cast to make it still hit them, flash in and q them. Like you can play without ult. But you won't 100-0 enemies in team fights
That's assuming the enemy has no vision around the map. The squishy target is for some reason both isolated while also being low. You having flash available while they do not. That's a whole lot of variables. In a typical 5v5 scenario that's not gonna happen. Jungle will be warded, the ADC will stick to his support and or Tank, the mage will have an hourglass ready, and the instant you get close enough to hit a W you are either getting cc'd to death or they simply walk away forcing your team to engage a 4v5 because you are basically irrelevant till next w or r. What Im saying here is not that Talon is a bad champion. Im just saying that he feels cluky af to play and has little to no outplay potential. Getting a kill on Talon is 90% about how bad the enemy player is rather than how good you are at the Champion.
: Talon is a polarized champ, too strong in some situations, too linear/weak otherwise. He needs TLC
As someoen who has like 900k on the champ I'd like to say that what the people commenting here cant seem to get is that Talon's playstyle can literally be summarized in : Do you have R? If yes all in, if no stay back. He is so reliant on his passive to deal any dmg that he ends up being completely useless against anything with any form of mobility (or cc for that matter) without his R. A typical no r Talon fight goes something like : Throw a W, hit the first half, the enemy dodges the second half, congratulations you have done your part and now have no follow up dmg so just walk back and try against next W. Talon is by no means weak, but some parts of his kit feel very unhealthy , very linear and very frustrating. He needs his passive dmg redistributed around his kit IMO.
: Let's say I play talon. W - 1 proc. R - 1 proc Q - 1 proc Automatic aa after q 1 - proc R recall triggered by Q - 1 proc Passive damage - 1 proc Second part if W - might not hit, maybe 1 proc. Total 6-7 procs in under a second.
Talon OTP here. That's basically you puting your entire burst combo on cd and the total armor shred only procs for the passive. Talon isnt an aa champ, once you have blown your load you have to disengage or else you get popped. Hardely abusable. especially since the build path is so bad, you have to sit on 15 ad till you finish the full item.
Fízz v2 (EUW)
: Why does it even have to "reward long range snipes" I wonder. Rengar can 1 click you out of nowhere, Talon doesnt need any skillshots to blow you up, Zed can oneshot with weq auto at 1-2 items, etc. But Fizz needs extr3me counterplay xd FeelsBadMan
> [{quoted}](name=Fízz v2,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=i1U0p0dl,comment-id=000c00000000,timestamp=2018-08-02T10:50:31.189+0000) > > Why does it even have to "reward long range snipes" I wonder. Rengar can 1 click you out of nowhere, Talon doesnt need any skillshots to blow you up, Zed can oneshot with weq auto at 1-2 items, etc. But Fizz needs extr3me counterplay xd FeelsBadMan Now, Now. Lets not pretend that Fizz even needs to land his ult to blow up a squishy lol Because we both know that he doesnt.
: ***
Gotta love how you basically ignored the issue at hand and decided to turn this into a git gud strawman. lol > Just got your ass kicked by Wukong... as Talon... lmao. Wukong don't need nerf, at most need a rework. ~~Just learn how to lane, and position yoursef. ~~ Why am I not surprised that the Wukong one-trick is saying this? Listen dear, Wukong absolutely does need a rework considering his braindead point and click kit, but until Riot decides to give him that what he also needs is to get nerfed because 100-0 someone in 0.8 second without any sort of advantage whatsoever and with only point and click spells is utterly ridiculous. At worse if he doesnt get nerfed he either needs to get his knockup from his R removed or his damage to shift from his other spells into his R to at least give people a fair chance at fighting against him instead of getting instantly deleted. The part about laning and positioning are completely irrelevant by the way because I never had to deal with him throughout the laning phase (mostly because Talon does not spend practicaly any time in lane at all as you should know if you play him) and because there was nothing wrong with my positioning, unless you can so kindly clarify. Moving on. > Talon can 100%-0 too without landing his whole spells. I play Wukong and Talon. Talon can insta Wukong easly. This is so false it is actually hilarious. for one, Talon cannot 100-0 someone without landing his full rotation unless you are actually ahead of them and they have no armor. And if we go with such a scenario then all assassins can 100-0 a squishy when ahead and that is not the issue here. To help you understand lets have a look at some other assassins : Diana, she can 100-0 almost instantly but in order to do that she needs to land her Q which is telegraphed and dodgeable, Zed can 100-0 Someone but in order to do that he needs to place his shadow and hit a double Q + spin + duskblade proc (assuming he is ahead and doesnt need to R) all of which are dodgeable, Fizz can 100-0 someone but he needs to land his R and jump on them, both of which are abilities that can be avoided, Talon needs to get 3 stacks of his passive on you then AA to proc his passive for a 3 second bleed, if he has no R he needs to land both parts of his W for the passive stacks which is dodgeable, and if he has R you can always use your mobility or cc to deny him the AA he needs to proc the passive after landing his spells. Clearely, none of the above mentioned asassins can insta pop-you with no possible outplay unless they are obscenely ahead. Meanwhile what exactly does wukong need to do to insta delete you? Just use his passive Q then press E on you and R, which will either insta kill you or let you live an extra second in which you are knocked up and cannot do anything to deny him the kill anyway. No Cc, no mobilily no nothing. Even worse still, he can do it FROM INVISIBILITY, and without having any sort of level, item or gold advantage on you. Where is the counter play in that? The answer is : there isn't unless you can actually facetank him. Now, lets prove you wrong on the Talon thing by going with a hypothetical scenario of a two item Talon Vs a two Item wukong at the same level. What options does the Talon have? in a direct face to face confrontation Talon cannot afford to engage, why? because of two reasons first Wukong can simply use his W once the Talon engages to have him waste his spells, in such a scenario and assuming the Talon went for the flower combo for the insta pop, the result is that he lost his R and wukong lost just his W, and second Wukong's R can stop Talon's Q denying him a stack of his passive and the AA he needs to proc it duje to hard Cc'ing him which will more often than not result in a dead Talon. So clearely, wukong is at an advantage if the Talon starts the engage. Meanwhile what options does the wukong have? in a direct face to face confrontation the wukong can simply 100-0 the Talon without too much worries because his entire burst takes less than a second to proc with point and click E + Q empowerd AA and if we assume that the Talon somehow survives the initial burst and uses his R invisibility to try and escape the Wukong can simply press R and rotate in place which will still kill the Talon who is invisible but not untargetable and who is sure to be at the very center of the rings the moment he R. Not to mention that the wukong can afford to dash towards the Talon to fake an engage then W away after baiting some key spells or R. Assuming we go for a surprise assassination from the fog of war : Wukong still has the advantage if he engages because of his invisibility and how fast his burst is. As you can see in the video I already posted posted, even though I noticed the wukong behind me and tried to get away he just insta one-shooted me in 0.8 second despite having no advantage whatsoever over me (if anything i was ahead, farm kill and assissts wise). Even if we assume that I had tried to burst him first he still could have stopped my burst with his W or R. Meanwhile, Talon cannot 100-0 wukong out of invisibility because if you R outside of his vision you have lost the first portion of your R damage and a passive stack, after which you will need to Q the wukong, W him and wait for your R to converege towards him and AA to proc the passive. This gives him more than enough time to W to safety or to burst you back faster. So clearely Wukong here has the natural advantage because not only does his kit offer less counter play, but also because it is so much faster than Talon and smoother thanks to the knockup. Not to mention that he naturallly has more armor thanks to his passive, but I've decided to turn a blind eye on thjis because the issue is more about Wukong's braindead insta one-shot rather than Wukong vs Talon in particular. > Its a low elo issue. Cause you have poor map control, map awarness, micro... Yes, absolutely, because we all know that map control and "micro" are relevant when you get 100-0 in less than a second, and we all know that map awarness is the issue when you still get 100-0 in 0.8 the instant the wukong flashed on you even though you knew he was there and tried to get away. This is just pathetic. > This BS. how can you flash ??? his whole burst is on an aa (sheen, shiv, DH). Wukong has only 1,5 sec invisibility, you see him coming Shaco's burst only becomes and issue if he gets far ahead or if you have no armor, otherwise he cannot insta pop you with no counter play and you will still have roughly 10-20% hp and sometime to react. With Wukong, it doesnt even matter that you can see him coming because he can still insta pop you in under a second even if you know he is there the moment he gets within range of you. > Tldr : learn to play. TLDR: Learn to take criticism and stop being so emotional just because someone complaing about your main. Lets call things by their names, a braindead champ is a braindead champ, no counter play is no counter play. There is nothing offenseive about that so drop the holier than thou attitude and the petty insults. ignoring valid arguments in favor of "lol low elo" doesnt give you any more credibility and If anything, that just makes you seem immature.
Rioter Comments
Spârky (NA)
: The way around this issue would be that if you position swap it still gives you the mmr for the role you got. So say you got bot like in your example and swapped with mid you would gain rank in your bot role still. That way after a few games even if you get your off role it wouldn't matter if you swap roles since your "off" role is similar rank to that of your main role.
That would basically completely negate the purpose of role specialisation to begin with (which they claimed to be making the game fair for players who get auto-filled to a role they are worse at).
: isn't it a skill match up {{sticker:sg-lux-2}} Diana doesn't automatically beat her just because she can cancel her ult. If anything kat has an advantage because diana is melee so she'll get hurt by kay easy while she's going to struggle to land her Q on kat unless she's on top of her.
> [{quoted}](name=RainbowIcee,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZkgO9oAE,comment-id=00080002,timestamp=2018-04-08T03:27:53.474+0000) > > isn't it a skill match up {{sticker:sg-lux-2}} Diana doesn't automatically beat her just because she can cancel her ult. If anything kat has an advantage because diana is melee so she'll get hurt by kay easy while she's going to struggle to land her Q on kat unless she's on top of her. Honestly doesnt feel like much of a skill matchup. Diana is my go to pick against most assassins. For Kata: Diana's E makes Kata's all-in irrelevant since you can cancel her R. They are both melee but if you can land the Q then diana's ranged poke is superior to Kata. Diana with bone plating her shieled and electro can both facetank kata and win any trade, especially if you land the passive empowered auto. Kata needs to shunpo close to her daggers to deal any damage which makes it easy to mark her with your Q. The reset from your R once you land a Q also means that Kata cannot go for short trades then shunpo out since you can just R to her to re-engage. Diana's assassin build one-shots far faster than Kata and with the extra tankiness from the shield means that you cant lose an all-in even if you dont cancel her R.
: Win streak loss streak
I had the exact same thing happen to me, though in flex. Was sitting at a 65% winrate on Quinn after a huge winning streak and suddenly the moment I hit my promos I went on a 8 games losing streak, putting me back to exactly 50%. You wanna know the weirdest part? The moment I hit 50%, the exact next game had nothing but high silver and gold players... and one bronze 5 player on the enemy team. Needless to say that was a free win. lol Look I don't want to doubt Riot. It is entirely possible that the fact that I am playing flex (mostly for fun) can screw over the accuracy of the MMR system. But having at least one high plat player/low diamond player in what should be silver/gold games literally everygame is incerdibly stupid and goes to show that the system as it currentl is incredibly flawed. I also understand that you should normally get 50% winrate once you hit your skill level, but this does not justify the streaks. If the system really worked as intended you would at most lose 2-3 games in a row before dropping to a level slightly lower than yours then winning again a couple of games before having a higher mmr than you deserve. And this repitition is what should cause the 50% winrate. For some reason though, it takes the system 9 wins in a row, to put you in a 9 loss streak which makes no sense. Unless MMR only changes after 9 played games and not each game.
: Kat is a pain to play against
{{champion:131}} : "No, No. Please come pick that dagger. I insist"
Azadethe (NA)
: @ Meddler: Is Riot going to address the collateral damage caused by their change to Ginsoo's?(Jhin)
> [{quoted}](name=Azadethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xNA1bcTI,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-04-07T21:01:37.288+0000) > So...... when and how do you plan on balancing it? Once he gets bored of abusing Varus to climb, probably. {{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}}
HarrowR (EUNE)
: I'll just leave this here for all those that say adcs can 2 shot you while being unkillable and can 1v1 anyone... Anyone show me a clip from your own game,not youtube gosu montage,of any adc doing what this Irelia did at 23 minutes of the game and i'll say they're strong https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCJQeHrgthE
Say Hello to my Quinn <3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB7PrDpmJvU
: > [{quoted}](name=Done25,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EYbUykIU,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2018-03-31T18:26:17.829+0000) > > Assassins are balanced...when they don&#x27;t get snowballed. A really fed Fizz can often kill via sheer brute force once he gets fed enough. This basically leaves whoever he wants to murder with zero counter play as they&#x27;ll be dead before they can retaliate. problem i hve with assassins, i made a talon go 0-4 in lane yesterday as ap ezreal, he rushed tiamat pushed in wave roamed bot an got a few kills off it. no matter how much i pinged warded or warned bot lane he was gone, they never listened and dumbass nami took iginite into a annie varus lane with a kha zix jungler and talon mid so they pretty much had no sort of peel outside of bubble. so they just got dived while i kept taking towers their failure sooner or later flooded into mid lane an now talon is 4-4 and still keeping up in cs cause of tiamat rush. and we lose cause no1 wanted to peel for the fed ezreal after i asssassinated 1 guy going for me normally talon, the kha zix just pressed Q and did 80% of my hp though my seraph embrace. I hate assassins esp ad ones. they brainless cancer that when ahead are unstopable and annoying an when behind sooner or later will get ahead due to nature of their bull shit kits all they have to do is find that 1 idiot on enemy team to go farm.
> [{quoted}](name=Its All Skillzz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EYbUykIU,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2018-03-31T18:30:35.022+0000) > > problem i hve with assassins, i made a talon go 0-4 in lane yesterday as ap ezreal, he rushed tiamat pushed in wave roamed bot an got a few kills off it. no matter how much i pinged warded or warned bot lane he was gone, they never listened and dumbass nami took iginite into a annie varus lane with a kha zix jungler and talon mid so they pretty much had no sort of peel outside of bubble. so they just got dived while i kept taking towers their failure sooner or later flooded into mid lane an now talon is 4-4 and still keeping up in cs cause of tiamat rush. and we lose cause no1 wanted to peel for the fed ezreal after i asssassinated 1 guy going for me normally talon, the kha zix just pressed Q and did 80% of my hp though my seraph embrace. > I hate assassins esp ad ones. they brainless cancer that when ahead are unstopable and annoying an when behind sooner or later will get ahead due to nature of their bull shit kits all they have to do is find that 1 idiot on enemy team to go farm. The issue with Ad assassins is that so long as they are against a team that has no tanks and CC to keep them in check they will be cancerous to deal with, but at the same time they are completely useless against a tanky team and CC heavy comps due to how squishy they are. And please. Assasin's do not snowball if they fall behind unless your team misplays. Tabi and Seeker's, 2 items costing 1100 et 1200 Gold can stop 5800 Gold worth of lethality, if an Assassin is doing alright and your rush one of these you have stopped their potential snowball, if they were behind you have effectively killed them off. People just dont want to rush defensive for some reason.
MirrorU (NA)
: Fizz is weak at the moment? Give me the number of your dealer. He's so weak that he has the 2nd highest win rate in master tier, 7th highest in platinum, 4th highest in gold. I seriously would love it if people like would do some research before spouting off BS that's not based in reality.
> [{quoted}](name=MirrorU,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EYbUykIU,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2018-03-31T18:42:31.724+0000) > > Fizz is weak at the moment? Give me the number of your dealer. He&#x27;s so weak that he has the 2nd highest win rate in master tier, 7th highest in platinum, 4th highest in gold. I seriously would love it if people like would do some research before spouting off BS that&#x27;s not based in reality. As an Assassin main I lol'ed @ Fizz being weak. That piece of trash can legit miss his ult and still one-shot a squishy just by dashing through and jumping in their general direction. Not fun, not rewarding, not skillful at all. Though I agree that some assassin's (AD assassins mainly) struggle. Though things should get better with the upcoming Tabi nerfs.
: Thats it!!! Im taking a break! Fix your match making!
If you think the usual matchmaking is bad never try playing Ranked flex lmao https://i.imgur.com/GeFltz3.png #Balanced
: @Meddler, happy holidays for you and the rest of hardworking Rioters. I want to know your opinion on Talon's current state. and why not give him Rengar and Leblanc's treatment? The damage is there, but it's not much satisfying playing with him, specially with the -15 Movement speed nerfs, his low range [Q] and narrow + easily dodge-able [W]. The compensation buffs were good, and kept him in the same spot, but he still deserves a little bit of love as in QoL changes.
I really wish they would mix the Old+New Talon Kits. Making it so that the the ranged Talon Q is a blink like his old E to give him better lane mobility and a way to outplay his opponents and dodge skill shots while the melee Q is his Old Q bleed instead of a crit. The hitbox and animation on the melee Q are really clunky and sometimes the opponent would leave the aa range before you could proc the passive due to that. If that isn't possible, then the next best option in my opinion is to give him some movement speed passive similar to Ekko. I feel that losing stormraiders has really changed the way Talon used to be played....
EyasHawk (EUW)
: 1) Repetition is very much a form of emphasis. 2) I have no grudge whatsoever against Meddler. Thinking that you need to have a grudge against someone to criticise their decisions is deeply flawed. 3) Rioters do not care about the boards. They even explicitely stated that the boards are just a minority. So sorry to burst your bubble, but you being overly nice to them really doesn't change anything. They care much more about Reddit. 4) I honestly have no idea why you even focused so much on Ahri. I have played against my fair share of Ahris to know how the champ works and what you are saying is that you take sudden impact on her because evrything else is garbage, not because the rune is abusable. Again, I'd like to discuss a real case of sudden impact abuse rather than continue this Ahri discussion that is ultimately irrelevant. 5) According to your reasoning there is no such a thing as evidence then, unless meddler himself explicitely states that he is biased. Again, this is deeply flawed. Too many coincidences is not a coincidence. 6) I really don't believe you are older than me. Or at least, you are not acting your age. Otherwise you would know that nothing good can come out of acting condecending towards someone trying to discuss a point. This conversation could have actually been a good discussion about how and why certain champions could be abusing the rune and what possible justification there is for the nerf if you had not acted the way you did a while back. If Meddler cared enough about the board community to come and reply to me I know how I would treat him properly. Furthermore you keep wasting both of our times by not letting the matter go even after I have stated that I have no interest in continuing the discussion and are actively trying to draw me in by antagonizing me. Again, anyone should be able to see that this is not going to go anywhere if you keep that attitude up.
2) The amount of thought I put into it consisted of me checking his match history expecting to see an Assassin hard carrying in one of his games. That's literally all I did, and exactly what I got lol 3) So does the amount of work actually done based on these responses that doesn't just so happen to also be on Reddi's trending page. 4) Literally all I said is that she cannot ABUSE the runemaking it problematic or warranting any nerfs... 5) I will say it again : Too many coincidences is not a coincidence. When assassins get gutted withing one week of being good while ADCs have been broken for literally half a year then there very clearely is something wrong here. Whether you want to admit that or not is ultimately up to you though. But I think we both know that if instead of champions the situation was atheists consistently being abused while religious people were given unfair life advantages under an religious kings rule's then you probably wouldn't just call the situation a coincidence. 6) I basically did that several posts ago. Didn't stop you from writing a several paragraphs post to reply to my one line lol
: > [{quoted}](name=EyasHawk,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GVfbTlnl,comment-id=000f0000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-23T02:32:59.602+0000) > > I love how you emphasis Rioter. So what you are saying is that I can use Ad hominem so long as I don&#x27;t target a Rioter? lol Emphasis looks like italics or bolded font. It doesn't matter who it is, you're targeting them unfairly. > Jokes aside though, you really need to chill. No need to take this personaly, or make it personal, Myself and others have worked our asses off trying to make Rioters feel welcome on the boards so that we can have more discussions and open communication with them about changes to the game, and now people like you come in here with your conspiracy accusations aimed at Rioters and jeopardize the whole thing. Coincidences happen, and just because it's possible for something to be connected doesn't automatically make it true. Don't dick up the boards for the rest of us just because you have a grudge against a Rioter. --- > no need for name calling, A conspiracy theory is still a conspiracy theory, maybe it was rude to refer to you as a theorist, but the fact of the matter remains, what you are suggesting is a conspiracy theory. It is based on conjecture and coincidences to suggest that a conclusion is true, without any hard evidence to support the claim. --- > no need to attack me based on what I believe or the champions I like. You misunderstood, I wasn't judging you for playing those champions. You play a select few champions most of the time, as such I would trust you as an authority on those champions. I would not trust you as an authority on Ahri. I was simply pointing out that you don't play Ahri so you don't know what's optimal on her. You haven't put the time into testing runes for her like myself and other Ahri players have, so you don't know as much as we do about her and her runes. Not a judgement or a personal attack, just a statement of experience with different characters. --- > You are basically accusing me of what you have been doing against me. Look, no one is above criticism and each of us is free to have an opinion. Insinuating that someone is biased is not an issue if you can actually provide evidence to back it up and in this case there is plenty, starting with the ardent censer meta, and the jinx buffs right when he picked her up, constant assassin and lethality nerfs when they are already strugling, nerfing static WAVE CLEAR instead of burst after months just to buff fire cannon and cutdown with ADC being allowed to wreck havoc for months unpunished without even a temporary solution till mid season etc etc You're confusing coincidence with evidence. I'm going to have to see a disgruntled employee or ex-employee who has solid proof that they were told to change something "because the higher-ups wanted it," before I'm willing to make direct accusations against Rioters. --- > Yes there very much is bias involved, Meddler is still a human. Everyone is biased. Whether it affects their actions or not is another matter entirely. Coincidence is no substitute for hard evidence. --- > Though i have no interest in discussing this with someone who would rather just take it personally and feel offended. I could not care less what sort of attack you make against Rioters, as I made clear earlier in this comment. Attacking Rioters personally with statements on the boards is an irresponsible and disruptive thing to do. I've been on the boards a lot longer than you, don't abuse the trust we've built with Rioters for your own misguided grudge. --- > I don&#x27;t blame you, we have all been there. Im 23yo so Im past that stage, I often forget that the lol community is not made up of just people of my generation. So I&#x27;d rather just leave it as that. Trust me, no one reads most random messages online, so there is no need for you to try and defend yourself from the evil stranger or villainize me in front of some imaginary audiance, just chill and have a good night. I'm older than you. Don't go implying that someone is young if you don't know them. As I said before, I've been on the boards longer than you, and you're attacking Rioters' reputation without good reason. Got problems with the company or their changes to the game? Great, come on in and advocate for the right changes. But don't turn it into some BS grudge party where you spout ad-hominems based on conspiracy theories against Rioters instead of talking about something productive.
1) Repetition is very much a form of emphasis. 2) I have no grudge whatsoever against Meddler. Thinking that you need to have a grudge against someone to criticise their decisions is deeply flawed. 3) Rioters do not care about the boards. They even explicitely stated that the boards are just a minority. So sorry to burst your bubble, but you being overly nice to them really doesn't change anything. They care much more about Reddit. 4) I honestly have no idea why you even focused so much on Ahri. I have played against my fair share of Ahris to know how the champ works and what you are saying is that you take sudden impact on her because evrything else is garbage, not because the rune is abusable. Again, I'd like to discuss a real case of sudden impact abuse rather than continue this Ahri discussion that is ultimately irrelevant. 5) According to your reasoning there is no such a thing as evidence then, unless meddler himself explicitely states that he is biased. Again, this is deeply flawed. Too many coincidences is not a coincidence. 6) I really don't believe you are older than me. Or at least, you are not acting your age. Otherwise you would know that nothing good can come out of acting condecending towards someone trying to discuss a point. This conversation could have actually been a good discussion about how and why certain champions could be abusing the rune and what possible justification there is for the nerf if you had not acted the way you did a while back. If Meddler cared enough about the board community to come and reply to me I know how I would treat him properly. Furthermore you keep wasting both of our times by not letting the matter go even after I have stated that I have no interest in continuing the discussion and are actively trying to draw me in by antagonizing me. Again, anyone should be able to see that this is not going to go anywhere if you keep that attitude up.
: oh god strawman, "the fact you're arguing shows you care too much", "the fact you disagree just shows how inexperienced you are" all in one comment
The fact that he got offended over my comment, started acting all condecensing called my reasoning stupidity and called me a conspiracy theorist while simultaniously accusing me of pulling a strawman where there was none then went on to check my profile just to know what champions I like is why I stated he is taking it too personally which is not the same as "caring too much". The fact that I am explicitely stating that i won't continue the discussion because he decided to be rude to me and and antagonize me is the reason why I made the age remark, which again has no bearing whatsoever over the rune change in itself and hence is not subject to agreement/disagreement at all much less a sign that disagreeing with me means that he is unexperienced. It is literally just me saying that I dont see why I should discuss the topic with you at all regardless of whetehr you agree or disagree since you can't have a respectful discussion. This is not an insult or something to be offended over. Being younger has never been that lol Gotta love the people who turn everything into a fallacy, while using them themselves. Must be nice to know I few fancy words to spam lol
: A "fun" discussion where you make baseless assertions about Rioters because you disagree with a change they are making? Yeah "fun" isn't the word I would use. Maybe I was rude, but frankly I don't care in this case. No way in hell is it okay to use baseless ad-hominem attacks to abuse Rioters when you disagree with Riot's ideas. > [{quoted}](name=HalcyonDweller,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GVfbTlnl,comment-id=000f0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-22T23:01:20.967+0000) > > Besides, I never said that these characters were broken. I was simply pointing out the characters most able to make use of Sudden Impact. _**If Riot thinks the Rune needs nerfs then it&#x27;s probably 1) because of abuse cases, or 2) because of the rune being too powerful in repeated or extended trades**_ that occur in under the 20 or so seconds of cooldown they put on the new iteration on the PBE.
> [{quoted}](name=HalcyonDweller,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GVfbTlnl,comment-id=000f000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-22T23:58:36.129+0000) > > A &quot;fun&quot; discussion where you make baseless assertions about Rioters because you disagree with a change they are making? > > Yeah &quot;fun&quot; isn&#x27;t the word I would use.** Maybe I was rude, but frankly I don&#x27;t care in this case. No way in hell is it okay to use baseless ad-hominem attacks to abuse Rioters when you disagree with Riot&#x27;s ideas.** I love how you emphasis Rioter. So what you are saying is that I can use Ad hominem so long as I don't target a Rioter? lol Jokes aside though, you really need to chill. No need to take this personaly, or make it personal, no need for name calling, no need to attack me based on what I believe or the champions I like. You are basically accusing me of what you have been doing against me. Look, no one is above criticism and each of us is free to have an opinion. Insinuating that someone is biased is not an issue if you can actually provide evidence to back it up and in this case there is plenty, starting with the ardent censer meta, and the jinx buffs right when he picked her up, constant assassin and lethality nerfs when they are already strugling, nerfing static WAVE CLEAR instead of burst after months just to buff fire cannon and cutdown with ADC being allowed to wreck havoc for months unpunished without even a temporary solution till mid season etc etc Yes there very much is bias involved, Meddler is still a human. Though i have no interest in discussing this with someone who would rather just take it personally and feel offended. I don't blame you, we have all been there. Im 23yo so Im past that stage, I often forget that the lol community is not made up of just people of my generation. So I'd rather just leave it as that. Trust me, no one reads most random messages online, so there is no need for you to try and defend yourself from the evil stranger or villainize me in front of some imaginary audiance, just chill and have a good night.
: > [{quoted}](name=EyasHawk,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GVfbTlnl,comment-id=000f000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-22T22:08:04.258+0000) > > Literally the only champion with a higher than 50% winrate among those listed is Ahri, who only has a 51% winrate. that&#x27;s hardly a nerf worthy winrate. If these champions are really doing so badly with a rune that is really so problemtic and prone to abuse then one can only wonder how bad they will be once they can&#x27;t abuse it. Not really. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}} _Ah yes, win rates - the very reputable stand-alone reason for arguing for/against nerfs._ On top of that you misrepresented my argument in an effort to make it easier to knock down. \*yawn\* You're in no position to be leaning on logical fallacies, mr conspiracy theorist. I'm not going to gratify that with any sort of discussion. > Ahri is an assassin, but that&#x27;s besides the point. You are missing the point here by focusing too much on the word assassinate. If you are playing Ahri and want to get a pick on a solo target then you are going to try and burst them as fast as possible, ideally in under 5 seconds. In this situation you can&#x27;t abuse sudden impact since you only get one proc. Alternatively, if you are trying to get a pick mid-team then you are also going to try and dash in, land your charm, burst someone then dash out as fast as possible, this also means that you hardly get a chance to abuse the rune since you must act as fast as possible (unless you want to get CC chained to death). The scenario in which an Ahri can just afford to dash once, then waiit 5 seconds then dash again to apply more damage doesn&#x27;t exist because the target will usually be dead by then or you yourself will be forced to disenagge on them if you can&#x27;t burst them. Not to mention that the fact that the rune can only be proced with your R is hardly abusable. I play Ahri more than you, Diana/Talon/Quinn main. Combined with other runes it becomes very useful to Ahri. It's a lot more useful than the other runes on that level. --- Besides, I never said that these characters were broken. I was simply pointing out the characters most able to make use of Sudden Impact. If Riot thinks the Rune needs nerfs then it's probably because of abuse cases, or because of the rune being too powerful in repeated or extended trades that occur in under the 20 or so seconds of cooldown they put on the new iteration on the PBE.
> [{quoted}](name=HalcyonDweller,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GVfbTlnl,comment-id=000f0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-22T23:01:20.967+0000) > > {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}} > > _Ah yes, win rates - the very reputable stand-alone reason for arguing for/against nerfs._ On top of that you misrepresented my argument in an effort to make it easier to knock down. \*yawn\* > > You&#x27;re in no position to be leaning on logical fallacies, mr conspiracy theorist. > > I&#x27;m not going to gratify that with any sort of discussion. > > I play Ahri more than you, Diana/Talon/Quinn main. Combined with other runes it becomes very useful to Ahri. It&#x27;s a lot more useful than the other runes on that level. > > --- > And here I thought we were having a fun constructive discussion. What a shame. Oh well, good night i guess.
: > [{quoted}](name=EyasHawk,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GVfbTlnl,comment-id=000f0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-22T21:51:12.728+0000) > > Irelia isn&#x27;t even live yet, there is no reason to nerf a rune because of a champion that hasn&#x27;t been released yet. there is no reliable data whatsoever to assume that Irelia will make the rune problematic. Realistically, she probbaly won&#x27;t even be taking it since precision/resolve or precision/sorcery offer far better potential synergy than a mere 10 lethality on a champion who doesn&#x27;t build any other lethality items. Like I said I don't think it is just because of Irelia. {{champion:103}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:157}} > Also, ahri does not abuse the rune. At best you can get 2 procs per R if you time your dashes well. Which is also very situational since no one is actually going to dash once then wait 5 seconds to dash again while trying to assassinate. Ahri is a pick/kite mage, not an assassin. Her range is shorter than most pick mages, but that's still her function. unless you absolutely have to spam R to escape, a smart Ahri player will space the ults out and only use them to reposition when they have to.
> [{quoted}](name=HalcyonDweller,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GVfbTlnl,comment-id=000f00000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-22T21:54:11.063+0000) > > Like I said I don&#x27;t think it is just because of Irelia. > > {{champion:103}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:157}} Literally the only champion with a higher than 50% winrate among those listed is Ahri, who only has a 51% winrate. that's hardly a nerf worthy winrate. If these champions are really doing so badly with a rune that is really so problemtic and prone to abuse then one can only wonder how bad they will be once they can't abuse it. Not really. > Ahri is a pick/kite mage, not an assassin. Her range is shorter than most pick mages, but that&#x27;s still her function. unless you absolutely have to spam R to escape, a smart Ahri player will space the ults out and only use them to reposition when they have to. Ahri is an assassin, but that's besides the point. You are missing the point here by focusing too much on the word assassinate. If you are playing Ahri and want to get a pick on a solo target then you are going to try and burst them as fast as possible, ideally in under 5 seconds. In this situation you can't abuse sudden impact since you only get one proc. Alternatively, if you are trying to get a pick mid-team then you are also going to try and dash in, land your charm, burst someone then dash out as fast as possible, this also means that you hardly get a chance to abuse the rune since you must act as fast as possible (unless you want to get CC chained to death). The scenario in which an Ahri can just afford to dash once, then waiit 5 seconds then dash again to apply more damage doesn't exist because the target will usually be dead by then or you yourself will be forced to disenagge on them if you can't burst them. Not to mention that the fact that the rune can only be proced with your R is hardly abusable.
: Nah, I still think you're making implications when there are none. The OP is way more correct than you, that Irelia could abuse it, and I don't believe them either. There are a number of champions that can use and re-use the rune too much as it is live - coming from someone who abuses it with Ahri.
Irelia isn't even live yet, there is no reason to nerf a rune because of a champion that hasn't been released yet. there is no reliable data whatsoever to assume that Irelia will make the rune problematic. Realistically, she probbaly won't even be taking it since precision/resolve or precision/sorcery offer far better potential synergy than a mere 10 lethality on a champion who doesn't build any other lethality items. Also, ahri does not abuse the rune. At best you can get 2 procs per R if you time your dashes well. Which is also very situational since no one is actually going to dash once then wait 5 seconds to dash again while trying to assassinate.
: Calling "bias" is a stupid assertion. Zed was on his team, people who are biased wouldn't try to ruin something they benefited from. And Zed doesn't even use Sudden Impact as efficiently as other champions.
Except that he isn't the Zed player so unlike with his main class of champions (ADC) the benefit is situation and outside of his control. That game he had a zed hard carry for him, in a future game a Zed might hard carry against him and that is not Ok. And obvioulsy Zed doesn't, but there are literally 0 sudden impact abusers that are problematic or impossible to deal with for everyone. Except maybe Akali who will get reworked soon.
: Did Sudden Impact just get gutted because of Irelia?
Sure, "Irelia". Im sure Meddler's last played game had nothing to do with this decision. :^) https://i.imgur.com/7NlhcU7.png
Different (EUNE)
: Bot is balanced, adc are the squishiest champs in the game you can totally focus them down and you ll be good. You don't have damage? then that means that they played well and you played bad so they deserve to win. You can't kill them since they have a support with them? then we are talking about supports also being really strong as they are clearly what prevents you from killing the adc and winning... so nerf supports?
> You don&#x27;t have damage? then that means that they played well and you played bad so they deserve to win. No, that just means that my bot lane played bad in general. In more specific cases it just means that I am playing an Ad assassin who gets 5800 gold worth of lethality countered by 1100 tabi, or alternatively, it means that im playing a utility midlaner who actually needs to have his bot not get smashed to function, or an Ap assassin who needs to smash lane just to be on part with an ADC items due to gold issues (less expensive items, more double kill oppourtinities) > You can&#x27;t kill them since they have a support with them? then we are talking about supports also being really strong as they are clearly what prevents you from killing the adc and winning... so nerf supports? I don't mind shielders in particular getting nerfed. But shielders themselves wouldnt be an issue if putting a shield on the adc didnt mean that they could facetank me then kill me before my next spell rotation with 3 aa. ADC-Supp (enchanters) would be balanced if a shield could buy the ADC enough time to disengage with the supp peel. That way getting on top of the ADC and landing a combo would help force him out of the fight not just have them facetank an entire assassin combo then heal to full hp with life steal and keep fighting like nothing happened. Now, I know this post may seem like a joke, but the ADC dmg issue is very real.
: Then you should have posted it in Memes & Games. Putting it in gameplay is just asking for people to get salty. I'm not salty, and I'm not an ADC main, but I do think that this post is counterproductive to mending rifts between groups / roles. That's just my opinion though.
Fair point. Though I didnt want to post it there because I genuinly believe that the reasoning behind Bot lane changes in itself is valid, and posting it in memes would make it seem as though the entire topic is a joke in itself. I guess its too bad people focused on the 3 word joke rather than the core of my post.
YokoNomi (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=EyasHawk,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=K6wN33Fy,comment-id=000200010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-22T17:08:04.380+0000) > > I mean, isn&#x27;t that why you have the picture and smiley for? Fair point. In the end it's usually at the mercy of the forum dweller's perspective, I suppose. I personally had no issue with it.
> [{quoted}](name=YokoNomi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=K6wN33Fy,comment-id=0002000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-22T17:12:14.107+0000) > > Fair point. In the end it&#x27;s usually at the mercy of the forum dweller&#x27;s perspective, I suppose. I personally had no issue with it. I got my giggle posting this, so i can't really say that I mind the downvotes. I finished hononer lvl5 last season and never got any sort of ban or chat restriction before so I know Im not a toxic player. I guess Im just too used to the meme-sque nature of reddit and that doesn't really work here (maybe age diffrence?). Shame.
YokoNomi (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=EyasHawk,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=K6wN33Fy,comment-id=0002000100000000,timestamp=2018-03-22T17:01:01.107+0000) > > I honestly have no idea what you are trying to say here. If people can&#x27;t take a harmless joke even though I expelicitely addeded a meme-y picture to the post to insinuate light-heartedness then that&#x27;s not exactly my fault. It just means that whoever got offended is easily offended. Text has no emotion. The crux of some jokes, especially somewhat offensive jokes, is the tone you bring with it. Just giving text with no emotion in a community that is use to toxic behavior is always a risk. That's all I'm trying to say.
> [{quoted}](name=YokoNomi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=K6wN33Fy,comment-id=00020001000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-22T17:03:48.112+0000) > > Text has no emotion. The crux of some jokes, especially somewhat offensive jokes, is the tone you bring with it. **Just giving text with no emotion in a community that is use to toxic behavior is always a risk**. That&#x27;s all I&#x27;m trying to say. I mean, isn't that why you have the picture and smiley for?
: It's so weird to me seeing all these people spamming that adc is the only role that matters, going into their match history, and seeing a different role in ever game doing the carrying regardless of whether its an adc, a support, a jungler, a mid, or... dare I say it, even the top laner
Im sick of ranked. You will only find normal games in my match history and these are usually played with a pre-made team and taken less seriously. If you are refering to kass, he is my brother and a 1million mastery point kass OTP, who is best friend with our jungler and gets free top camps while I help bot. lol Obviously a premade team has a better chance of winning when you have 3 premade carries working together. We still lose a decent amount of games when none of use influences bot, but I dont think that's bad because normals are played for fun.
YokoNomi (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=EyasHawk,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=K6wN33Fy,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2018-03-22T16:52:39.030+0000) > > That&#x27;s the joke. Why do you think I used the &quot;kill-me&quot; smiley? :^) The irony in making an insult a joke is that you lose the potential momentum the moment you insinuate that text carries the proper tone. In the end, it just works against you.
> [{quoted}](name=YokoNomi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=K6wN33Fy,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2018-03-22T16:57:18.993+0000) > > The irony in making an insult a joke is that you lose the potential momentum the moment you insinuate that text carries the proper tone. In the end, it just works against you. I honestly have no idea what you are trying to say here. If people can't take a harmless joke even though I expelicitely addeded a meme-y picture to the post to insinuate light-heartedness then that's not exactly my fault. It just means that whoever got offended is easily offended.
: > [{quoted}](name=EyasHawk,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=K6wN33Fy,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-03-22T16:35:54.078+0000) > > even if you do play like the garbage you are Aww, you seemed so altruistic at first. How disappointing.
That's the joke. Why do you think I used the "kill-me" smiley? :^)
Rioter Comments
iV0lt4GE (EUW)
: @RiotRepetoir, Couple of Questions regarding mid and Assassins.
Honestly, riot needs to rework lethality. I can't understand how anyone would think that it is ok that spending 1100-1200 gold on one defensive item rush (Tabi or Seeker's) is enough to counter 5800 Gold worth of lethality which AD assassins won't even get till mid game. As much as I Iove Talon as a champion, he has really been getting the short end of the stick since mid last season. First we had the ardent censer meta, where everyone was playing shielders support and utility mages mid (Like malz) making it insanely hard for assassins to function. back then Talon himself was fine, the meta just didn't suit him. Then we had runes rework and Talon lost his main keystone (Stormraiders) as well as the lethality runes, which was a huge blow but I thought we could make him still work since lethality items were buffed. Then we had the Targon meta, which made ADC pretty much unburstable for an Ad assassin who needs his R to function (long cooldown). Then Lethality items got nerfed again and the stopwatch meta started, which means that not only could people facetank you, but now they also got a free stopwtach to stop your lvl 6 snowball. Then stopwatch meta ended and right when I thought Talon could finally be good again, Riot introduced bone plating. And with duskblade nerf as of 8.6, and the upcoming locket rework it pretty much feels like the final nail in the coffin for Talon. Honestly, I have given up on the champ. Unless some huge changes are made to Ad assassin items or Talon is made into an AP champion there is simply no reason to play him when other Ap assassin's like Diana can one-shot just as hard while not putting your team at the risk of being full AD.
: I feel like current Tabis should have scaling nullify for Critical strikes, because blocking a mere 12% of a 600 damage basic attack wont save you if youre low HP _Unpopular Opinion_
Not to mention that the armor makes it too good vs Assassins and bruisers while being irrelevant vs ADCs.
xelaker (NA)
: For the love of all that's holy...
I made it to my Gold promos in my first season of play (s7) just by OTP'ing Talon mid. Your argument is invalid. :^) Seriously though, I understand that being an OTP can look bad. But so long as you actually know how to play the champion, have at least one back up plan and can play a couple of support champions it should be fine. In fact, being really intimate with the champion gives you the edge on the 95% of the games you play with them. Just be willing to dodge when needed. Don't be a douch and force a loss on your team just because you don't want to lose 3 LP.
Rioter Comments
: We could. We planned for 8.7 yesterday, and Tabi came up. I'm not sure what the end result will look like, but Tabi work of some magnitude should be on PBE next cycle.
Please do so, Im begging you, as an AD Assassin main (Talon), having an 1100 Gold item negating my 5800 Gold worth of lethality feels absolutely horrible. The passive is just overkill, especially now that Duskblade is getting nerfed. On a side note, is there anything planned for a phase rush buff? I miss taking stormraiders on Talon, and phase rush really doesnt feel good on him till around lvl 12-13 (which is when Talon starts falling off anyway), why was there a need to make the MS scaling unlike with stormraiders?
: You're not touching my core item when playing {{champion:44}} top, buddy.
As a fellow Taric Top I find your choice of taking Muramana over Seraph's outragous. Truly, Truly, Truly outragous.
: I don't know about all them, but I'm having a great time with League right now. I've never enjoyed it this much.
> [{quoted}](name=DarkKatalyst,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iqGjGa3R,comment-id=001c,timestamp=2018-03-13T04:04:29.071+0000) > > I don&#x27;t know about all them, but I&#x27;m having a great time with League right now. I&#x27;ve never enjoyed it this much. I mean, the fact that you are a support main in a meta were ADC&Supp decide the game may have something to do with it lol
: This is a game design choice to make optimal play and enjoyable play closer. They pick the range at which they think the game is enjoyable, and prevent players from using a less-enjoyable range just to achieve a tactical advantage. It's the type of feature that you might think could give you an advantage, but would ultimately just make everyone better (you don't get any advantage relatively) while everyone has less fun. Just because there are work-arounds doesn't mean they should make it an option, and if someone tells you to modify your game files that's potentially a way to get banned.
Your post is contradictory, first you say that this is made to stop players from picking a range that would give them a tactical advantage then go on to say that it wouldnt actually give anyone an advantage... That basically debunks the reasoning for why it wasn't allowed, according to your reasoning at least. I personally don't think the current range is the most enjoyable, and I find it unfair that people can have a larger FOV than me just because they can afford multiple monitors or an Ultra wide screen (because yes, these do increase the field of vision). Also, the entire point of my post is that it actually wouldnt give people an advantage, it would just be a quality of life feature so that you don't have to unlock and re-lock your camery every couple of seconds just to see what is going on a few units away: If you want closer camera you can have it, if you want farther camera you can have it. If anything it would allow each player to pick whichever FOV they think is best for their playstyles.
: That would be called Taric's passive takes kills, Redemption is bad on Taric, Taric's passive requires massive amounts of mana to sustain and archangel's staff is by far the most efficient mana item in the game, and Locket was my next item which you can obviously see since you were so keen to look at my build. I'll do some math for you to show why I take archangel staff over redemption using level 12 as a base. Taric's base mana is 890 at level 12. Q costs 110 mana to cast with 4 points in it (4 point Q is the reason I picked level 12 for example). Assuming Taric is comboing correctly with E,Q,W,Q,E,Q,W,Q,E,Q he can use his heal a total of 5 times with redemption and 15 times with archangel's staff. 4 charge Q scaling: 80 +80% AP +4% max hp With redemption: (80 + 0 + 80) x 1.1 = 176 With Arachangel staff (80 + 95 + 64) = 239 Redemption heals for a total of 250 at level 12. Oh look, just barely more than his Q with archangel's staff that has a ~3 second cooldown while comboing. How weird is that? Anyways, including the active he can heal for a total of 1130 before he is completely oom. With Archangel's staff, he can heal for a total of 3585 before he is completely oom. All of this math doesn't take into account that Taric will have greater effect from his runes and his E does more damage with archangel's staff than with redemption. Please do tell me which Taric is supporting his team more.
Taking a few kills is OK, it happens, its either kill securing or as an accident and there is nothing wrong with that. The issue though is when it happens 8 times in one Game... As for your question I dont play Taric, and I dont want to give misinformed opinions. What I can say though is that you are not taking into account the fact that redemption can heal the entire team (so that's 5 heals) and also deal damage to the enemy team **at the same time**. It doesnt actually need to wait 3 sec between each heal on a teammate. Regardless of that, your build should reflect the enemy strength, the fact that they have a fed AP carry means that you need to be building MR and shileds for your team, which is locket. Having more mana is nice for prolonged fights... But only if your team can actually survive long enough for a promonged fight to begin with.
: https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2737087006/209287161?tab=overview I had the opposite happen in my last game. I started 6/0/5 on support but my top and mid got destroyed so bad that it didn't matter. Once we started grouping there was absolutely nothing we could do against the fed Swain.
How do you actually expect to win when you take the kills as the support? Especially since you dont use it to build MR or locket/redemption for your team when there is a fed swain? You probbaly would have won if that Gold was put on the ADC or maybe midlaner rather than the support building AP...
: > [{quoted}](name=EyasHawk,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HANPIk9G,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-03-11T05:10:27.978+0000) > > I mean, Its not like a cloth armor (15 armor) costing 300 Gold can completely negate 1100 Gold worth of lethality (6-10 amor pen Dirk) and its not like a pair of boots worth 1100 Gold can counter 4000 gold worth of lethality or anything... Oh, wait, they actually do! Duskblade+ dirk give 18 and 10 lethality respectively, that&#x27;s 11 to 18 armor pen based on level for DB and 6-10 armor pen for dirk. So you get a total of 17-28 armor pen, Ninja Tabi gives 30 armor, effectively negating both. > > Additionally, if you happen to be an AP champion, you can counter 5800 Gold worth of lethality (Duskblade+ Ghostblade) just by getting the 1200 Gold worthy seeker&#x27;s armguards (30 to 45 armor when stacked). > > I agree that lethality was a bad idea, but not because it is OP. But rather because of how useless it is. The whole reason Assassin&#x27;s have been forced to rush Duskblade everygame is because of its passive proc which deals a huge amount of damage, not because of lethality which everyone can easily render useless with just one defensive item. Actually that is kind of incorrect because of how new armor pen works. With lethality being calculated last most people build % armor pen and then have so much lethality it negates most of the left over armor on everyone but the tank making your damage essentially true damage. It should go back to before where it was flat armor pen then % to make it less useful in the late game.
You obvious never played any AD Assassin, otherwise you would know that there is literally only one AD % armor pen item (last whisper) and which only works on Bonus armor, so basically if someone has 30 armor (Tabi) it would only give 10 armor pen against them for 1300 Gold (even worse than lethality items). No one is going to build that on an Assassin unless they are basically full build. Also AD Assassin's fall off extremely hard late game when everyone outscales them and get defensive items. Please stop spreading misinformation, the issue is not lethality but Duskblade proc. And the only reason we even need Duskblade in the game is because of how useless lethality as a whole is, and even then, it will get nerfed next patch.
: How many years before Riot realizes lethality is the worst decision they've ever made
I mean, Its not like a cloth armor (15 armor) costing 300 Gold can completely negate 1100 Gold worth of lethality (6-10 amor pen Dirk) and its not like a pair of boots worth 1100 Gold can counter 4000 gold worth of lethality or anything... Oh, wait, they actually do! Duskblade+ dirk give 18 and 10 lethality respectively, that's 11 to 18 armor pen based on level for DB and 6-10 armor pen for dirk. So you get a total of 17-28 armor pen, Ninja Tabi gives 30 armor, effectively negating both. Additionally, if you happen to be an AP champion, you can counter 5800 Gold worth of lethality (Duskblade+ Ghostblade) just by getting the 1200 Gold worthy seeker's armguards (30 to 45 armor when stacked). I agree that lethality was a bad idea, but not because it is OP. But rather because of how useless it is. The whole reason Assassin's have been forced to rush Duskblade everygame is because of its passive proc which deals a huge amount of damage, not because of lethality which everyone can easily render useless with just one defensive item.
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EyasHawk

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