Mcmxcix (NA)
: > This is what her old bio was saying. Mistress of the black arts... She _was_ a witch, and she _should_ be a witch. She's literally named after the Arthurian famous sorceress Morgan LeFay... Coincidence, also the name itself it's an amazing one. >She went on Runeterra to learn dark arts. Which is magic. Which is exactly what make a witch...? She's a fallen angel, can you read that? AME DAMME, learning something doesn't make you IT. It's like me learning to swim and i'm a world class swimmer or a swimmer? no, i'm a regular guy who knows hot to SWIM. She's a Fallen Angel who learned dark ARTS.... .... .... (>.<)7
It's in no way a coincidence. Riot's always been rather careful with names. Her first name was Morgana Le. I don't believe it's a coincidence. First of all, it is Âme Damnée. There's an N. Being a fallen angel is not incompatible with being a witch. Also arguably, current Morgana has of fallen but the name. She never liked her power. She never felt the pride of being a celestial being. She says it herself "I didn't fall from grace, I leapt.". Morgana is less of a Fallen Angel than Aatrox. Aaaaand your example is counterable. Knowing how to swim makes you, by default, a swimmer. Not necessarily a good one, but still one. Now if you're a _master_ at swimming... Then yeah I'd expect you to be a damn good one. And Morgana was literally called "Mistress of the dark arts". Also... That's literally what a witch is? You can be of celestial ascendance and still be a Witch? If you've become a master at your craft (which, in this case is magic on a scholarly level)... You should be considered one. If you take that away from her, she becomes a weak, bad and uninteresting character who won't be able to match Kayle, who's been training for centuries, when the time comes. Maybe you like Morgana as a weakling, but I don't, and I sure hope she's been harnessing the powers of the world she loves so much
Mcmxcix (NA)
: Morgana wasn't a witch in her old story ... she was a fallen Angel aka Ame Damme, on which she went to find other source to fight her sister and her stupid goal aka "justice". Morgana wasn't evil in her OLD and she's not evil in her NEW lore either. Old Morgana had an amazing personality, the new Morgana has literally none, she's just a ????? and !!!!!!! towards Demacians and that's it, old Morgana knew what to say. Old Morgana had an amazing animation and concept, the new one is blatantly pathetic and she looks like an Adult Sex Toy, and let's not talk about her ... wings ... Tail?! Back to her old Lore, she fought Kayle due to the fact that she was a FANATIC and an Extremist to the point she smite her Sister 'cause she showed her other aspects of life and listen to reason, but hey ... "Justice" shall prevail. She's a Ame Damme and she caught a glance to the Shadow on which she took it 'cause it was Logical that Darkness ∅ Light and vice-versa(depends on the situation). Now let's talk about Kayle, her Old model was Ok'ish and i loved her old Full Plate armor ... now she's in a 70% Spandex and some lame ass Armor designed to show us what? Her old Lore was like in her Sister's case better than the new one and she didn't lack Personality like the new one ... now she's like GAREN but FEMALE. Her old dance was pathetic, her new dance is even more r%%%%%ed(don't you dare rito delete this post 'cause i use true words) than her old one. The only good thing about new Kayle is her Animation and Overall skins rework and that's it. Again, Morgana wasn't and will never be a WITCH, she's a AME DAMME and she was(STILL?) is amazing if they will revert her Model to the Old one. Kayle on the other Hand, she sucked backt then, she sucks now. Kayle old Abilities were amazing, you could play SUPPORT with her, now she's useless or little broken depending on the team composition. Morgana > Kayle, any day, any week, any other future reworks, the only thing will make me be displeased and i am displeased with her is her Stupid Passive and Her NEW ADULT SEX TOY MODEL in game + her ... wings? ... TAIL!?
> Morgana wasn't a witch in her old story ... she was a fallen Angel aka Ame Damme, on which she went to find other source to fight her sister and her stupid goal aka "justice". She went on Runeterra to learn dark arts. Which is magic. Which is exactly what make a witch...? "Driven by vindictive obsession, Morgana is a potent mistress of suffering and the black arts." This is what her old bio was saying. Mistress of the black arts... She _was_ a witch, and she _should_ be a witch. She's literally named after the Arthurian famous sorceress Morgan LeFay...
: I agree with everything you said about Syndra. I do understand why Riot would want to take her out of the Noxian invasion, and I think they did that in the most graceful way possible, but it does leave her in a massive vacuum as a result. A short story from her perspective would probably fix almost all of her problems in regards to her personality and goals, but in order to get her out of the vacuum, there's going to be more interactions between her and everyone else. Maybe the upcoming Ionian juggernaut will have some words for her? It might be small, but it would be something. As regards to Kayle and Morgana, I agree that Kayle needs a more positive portrayal. I think Riot was trying to aim for that, but ultimately fell short and just made her seem overzealous and cruel and downright unlikeable, especially compared to Morgana, who I think has a lot of sympathy from the narrative. But I don't really think Morgana's prime archetype is supposed to be a witch. She's mostly been a fallen angel, and I think she continues to uphold that archetype. Plus, if the story "Prayer to a Crumbling Shrine" is supposed to reflect what she really is like, then it shows that Morgana hasn't completely sworn off of magic? I guess that if you have no way to get rid of it, might as well use it to your liking? Also, I think it's been said that Morgana's magic is still celestial, just corrupted and darkened due to her rejection of divinity. I doubt she's using spiritual and elemental magic, and to be honest I hope that's not the case. I think that would be too out of place. To be honest, I don't mind Kayle and Morgana not showing up yet in physical form. It retains the fact that they have become legends within Demacia, and it builds up for the time they both eventually come back. My only issue about this is that we don't know exactly where the heck Morgana is. Kayle we know is at Targon, but Morgana is... wandering around Demacia? On the edge of its borders? Retaining secrecy? Secretly answering a selected few? It's unclear. Also, voted for burritos. I can't eat tacos without making a mess.
So since we agree on most point I'll jump to the disagreeing part... (and I'm sorry because it's something very important to me!) Morgana being a witch should remain (pun intended). I know it matters a lot to me. Because I really don't want a crybaby rejecting magic as one of my favourite characters - at least not when she originally was a powerful witch. I don't even think she fits the fallen angel archetype that much (Aatrox is a much better fit to be fair)? She always resented her powers, even if she wasn't that reluctant to use them before. I don't think making her use Elemental and Spiritual powers would be weird. By virtue of resenting her Celestial power, it would make sense for her to dabble in the more "earthly" magic? My main problem is that their story is largely going to a climax where they'll fight again. Kayle's been training on Targon. In plain and simple words she should be much stronger. If Morgana hasn't developped her witch side... Then she'll be powerless in comparison. I mean it could happen, but it'd be uninteresting to have a Morgana as a weakling imo? She's the one with glowing hands, she's even named after Morgan LeFay, if that's not screaming witch I don't know what does :/ All in all I just don't want Morgana to be a useless crybaby rejecting her powers when the time comes, you know? She's been growing angry and bitter at Kayle, knowing she would return. I think she would prepare for that? _________ Regarding where she is, she lives in the woods on the outskirt of Demacia according to Jellbug! Ah? I voted Tacos! But I'm biased because there's quite a Handsome Taco on our lore server ;)
: 2019 Lore Tournament - Day 10: Canticle of the Winged Sisters vs Snow Day
So I'll vote Canticle. Kayle and Morgana bias. But ultimately I find the story rather interesting. While it is a major retelling of their bios, it has such an eloquent and interesting use of words. My biggest regret is the lack of rhymes. But yeah I just love it. It's very different and I seem to have understood that it's not very appreciated. But I love it. > With chains she bound black feathers tight > And vanished through the mists of time. I just love that story. Admittedly I have a big bias but after reading it several times over... I just think it's a very good story, albeit very different from what we're used to having.
: I like the story of Syndra because it kinda cements the Ionia's total inability to deal with complicated matters. {{champion:134}} A child is abused and neglected by her own family, has a lot of negative emotions that lead to powerful magic, is handed over by her family to the first stranger willing to get them rid of her? She feels betrayed by her teacher because he lied to her and revealed that her temple was meant to be her prison until she dies of old age? Needs someone who would show her care and understanding in addition to discipline and self-control? Nah, let's just put her into stasis and make her go through her childhood abuse over and over again in her sleep to punish her for being so angry due to all abuse and neglect. {{champion:64}} A boy is talented and prideful? Okay, I guess making him do chores without actually explaining the dangers of pride and arrogance would suffice. Oh, he fucked up because we didn't explain shit? Better banish him, lol. {{champion:157}} A village idiot kills an elder, even though he was supposed to guard him and had literally no reason to kill him? Eh, who needs a trial and investigation anyways? {{champion:202}} A psycho who killed lots of people in the most sadistic and disgusting way possible has been caught? Let's send him to prison, where he will be enjoying a 3-course meal and painting/sculpturing classes. Yeah, it's not fair to all the people he murdered and their grieving families, but at least our hands are clean!
Yeaaaaaah that's true x) On the topic of Jhin, we were told that killing him might be worse than not doing so, so I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on that one. But yeah for the others... :/ Ionia needs to change. Hopefully a new Sovereign will arise and see that it does! :p
: i dont think that she wants to destroy ionia but am not sure , the last time i read syndra lore was when riot changed it to the dream pool thingy . as for her personality she doesnt give me the "am very angry" feel but more like "am power hungry and no one will stop me" , she just feels like someone who lost her self in the ecstasy of power and keep wanting more by whatever means necessary. but i agree her voice lines are short and a bit lacking in spirit i just hope they dont change it too much like what they did with aatrox (i still dont like his voice line)
Oh I don't think she does either - but it could very well go that route. Syndra is pretty much the personification of anger tho (I mean... She killed a whole island by throwing a tantrum, that's harsh). I'm not sure about power hungry, either? Her bio reads to me like someone who would have wanted to be herself, try and explore her own power, but she was denied that privilege. As for her VO... Yup. Well, I don't think they'll change it. Not anytime soon anyway. One can hope, but I don't think she's popular enough to have that?
: In my opinion the most glaring flaw in Kayle's character is her appearance. I just can't get over the armored leggings. Not that I dislike fit women in tight dresses, but in this case this attractiveness is extremely detrimental to everything Kayle is supposed to embody. Nothing speaks "ironclad justice from above" like a good old cameltoe. I guess a winged figure in an heavy, scintillating armor and an inflexible sentence coming out of a faceless helm is fine in order to deliver the concept, but doesn't sell enough skins...
I actually did think about making a part about visual designs but felt like it didn't belong here? Trust me, I could talk about Syndra and Kayle's designs for hours... Morgana's fine, at least!
GreenLore (EUW)
: Kinda agree with Syndra, though that always felt like a problem with her character. The way her lore builds her up, I feel like she should be a major player in Ionia, but she has no connections to anyone and her goals seem kinda hazy. I also think that Syndras fanbase might be a problem here. I've seen some people get extremely defensive when it comes to Syndra here on the boards, so I fear that Riot might hesitate to rewrite Syndra too much(or add a lot), because it'll likely end rubbing her fans the wrong way. Diana is the only champ that had such a zealous fanbase here on the boards and her new lore feels like it was made specifically for those, as it painted Diana in a way more positive light. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ When it comes to Kayle and Morgana I agree that their lores depict Kayle a bit too evil, but also that Morganas lore depicts her in a far too positive light. Yes her idea of redeeming criminals instead of killing them is actually quite noble, but so far her view isn't really depicted as a problem like Kayles. I do agree that Morgana doesn't feel like a witch anymore, but I'd argue that this isn't a problem, as Morganas primary archetype was always that of a "fallen angel", which she still has. Her being also a witch, was kinda odd and to be honest I feel like Riot could make a better witch-champ eventually. And yeah Morgana feels similar to Nasus in that she is apparently an immortal who spent the last centuries sulking and doing nothing until their sibling gets active again. I also wonder why Morgana has 6 wings even though she rejects her celestial origins, while Kayle has seemingly to work for her additional wings... Overall however I feel like the problems of Kayle and Morgana stem more from the fact that riot hasn't decided to continue their lores and not because of a fundamental flaw in their lore or character.
Regarding Syndra - I agree. I'm not familiar with the Syndra mains, mostly because of that. I personally really like her current direction, even though it is flawed. I do think she _should_ be a big player in Ionia's future. And I do think she will be, it's just that we're getting progression rather slowly (which is understandable given the whole lot of champions they have to work on)! _______________________ While I agree, I don't think that's quite true. I don't think making Morgana 'more evil' (for lack of better words) would do much, apart from making her less appreciable, and we'd just find ourselves with two unattractive characters. Making Kayle look better would be more interesting. I think that what I would have appreciated more from Morgana's lore is a better take on her killing Ronas. Yes, she protects her followers, but she hated him, she could have just imprisonned him, it would've been better to make this more apparent? On that however I disagree. I _loved_ Morgana for being a witch. And to me, it's a problem if she just refuses to use magic. I understand that you don't mind it, but it's personally one of the reasons why I loved Morgana in the first place. I understand why she resents her celestial origins, and how it can be interesting from a storytelling point of view, but it's really just annoying (again, at least to me), to have Morgana have that stolen from her imo. Another reason why I think so is because when Kayle comes back, she'll have trained for a millenia (at least according to the AMA). I fear Morgana will just be completely useless (whatever the story ends up being) if she isn't a witch anymore and refuses to use her own celestial powers next to her sister who's been training for years. About Nasus, I think they are somewhat similar, but Morgana's just been growing resentment towards her sister, which is a bit different from Nasus (and also why I'm hoping she'll have trained in magic because she knows her sister will come back) Regarding the wings, Kayle has her 6 wings currently lore-wise. I think the in-game thing is just for the sake of her gameplay, and I do think Morgana started with only 2 wings as well? I don't disagree with that, except on the Kayle problem that she isn't portrayed in a good enough light. Sadly, I feel like we won't get much for them in a while :/ I think we're gonna step away from Demacia after the Novella, which is fine, but well :/
: Back in the old seasons I played Kayle a lot, probably my #3 most played champion in the game. I always thought she had one of the coolest themes being somewhat of a protector or guardian of peace, punishing those who act against it with righteousness. The new Kayle feels more like a corrupt cop just going around beating everyone that doesn't kneel during an anthem. Her voice lines are so aggressive and ruthless and I was never really a fan of her anymore once I found that out. It is like 20-30% of the reason I don't play the new Kayle, I cannot stand her personality.
I feel that. I personally didn't care about Kayle prior to her rework, and I now really like her! I feel like she is more of a misguided protector than a corrupted one. She's trying to take over the mantle of her mother without any guidance... I still think she could use some more positive traits, though. I really like the dynamic Kayle and Morgana have, they need each other. They should complete each other. And I'll agree that it may feel unbalanced in what they can bring each other...
Rioter Comments
: I'm voting for Kayle just because fuck you Falrein
Ok? You've already jinxed a post of mine once, I've gotten used to it by now ;) Edit - You do realize I also main Kayle, right? So like, if her story comes out winning I won't mind :')
: 2019 Lore Tournament - Day 9: In the Fires of Justice vs Prayer to a crumbling Shrine
Woaw, I was mentioned in the post, what an honor :D Though I must say, this one's unfair. I love Kayle and Morgana so much. So... Let's see. First of all I'll say I loved both stories. I'm a bit sad we didn't get to see Kayle and Morgana's actual selves in their color stories but that's a separate issue. What I love in In The Fires of Justice is the biblical "Final Judgement" vibe it has. Kayle comes in to fight the corrupted king and his court. I especially loved that quote from the story - > ‘Can you undo your deeds of injustice, King?’ asked the Protector. ‘Can you unspeak your lies and unmake your false laws against fair and righteous judgment? No? Then there will be no redemption for you.’ Now in Prayer to a Crumbling Shrine, what I love is the final twist. It's easily predictable, but it's still cool imo. I liked the moral of this tale more, even though I preferred Kayle's burning everything vibe. My favourite part of that story must be - > ‘You defend him, even now,’ said the Veiled One. ‘The wretch has much to learn ere death's mercy lays claim. He alone must feel the pain he caused so he may never hurt another. You came here seeking understanding—its burden is now yours to bear.’ So... With that said, now comes the choice. I'm gonna go with Morgana because she was my first main ever? I wish I could vote for both but I can't...
: 2019 Lore Tournament - Day 8: Adaptation vs Message on a Blade's Edge
Oof this one's close. My vote goes to Adaptation. I liked the whole "reality rejects them" thing on Voidborn. Don't have much to say, I liked both stories, they do their jobs as color stories... Tomorrow's gonna be a hard one :(
: Can someone explain the twin shadows icon
Actually same... I see an old man with a beard...
: I can't believe you all are turning against Tamara {{sticker:sg-janna}}
I mean I was never with her in the first place. Bitch has more appearance than some champions smh
: 2019 Lore Tournament - Day 7: The Echoes left Behind vs The Whispering Doodad
So... The Echoes Left Behind. First of all, because I really like Kalista as a character, and I liked her portrayal in the story. I loved the little tidbits we got on the Black Mist, and Ledros... Well, let's just say he had it rough. Poor buddy. The Whispering Doodad was fun, I liked it. Again, a light-hearted story (written by Graham!) is always welcome. To be fair, I think the only reason I'm voting TELB instead of TWD is because of Kalista, because I really loved both stories.
: 2019 Lore Tournament - Day 6: Halfway Between the Stars and Earth vs For Those Who Have Fallen
Yeah okay look I know Fas (and probably half of the Boards) is gonna hate me but I'm rooting for Soraka. I just loved that story. It's calm and peaceful, it offers a nice change of pace. On a more personal note, I wasn't a fan of the writing style in For Those Who Have Fallen (no offense to Interlocutioner, the story is really good). It's a very good story, I just didn't have much impact on me? Maybe part of the problem comes from the fact that everyone was hyping up Pantheon and I was expecting something else? I don't know... Anyway, two really good stories, but I'm voting for Halfway Between the Stars and Earth!
: 2019 Lore Tournament - Day 5: The Harder Path vs Fit to Rule
: 2019 Lore Tournament - Day 4: Demacian Heart vs Turmoil
"A shield against the Darkness" **_Darkness is a gift!_** _______________________ Both stories are really good, to be fair. I am still gonna go with Turmoil. I like the light tone of it. And admittedly I do have an anti-Sylas bias, but that may be because I've been oversaturated with him and the fact that he's gotten quite some content for such a recent champion. Story-wise, both stories are interesting. But Turmoil wins it for me because it shows the good in Demacia, which is something a lot of people have complained about. Also my Anthony Reynolds bias, I guess? :')
: 2019 Lore Tournament - Day 3: The Recruit vs Trouble
I'll go with Trouble on that one! Because honestly duck Sylas... Seriously tho, I do think both stories are nice, and do their jobs as color stories. I just really like Annie's because... ARSON!
Terozu (NA)
: So Riot is actually considering Announcer packs, but they said something that caught my interest.
I am not sure, actually? I mean... Let's think this through. A Voice Pack would be like... a VO for a champion? Which is cool... But newer champions don't need those? Like what would they say? So you would give them to old ones... But paying for something other champions have had for free (reworks, I mean)? Don't get me wrong I would kill for a VO update on Syndra. But I am not quite sure what a voice pack would be? Champion Announcer Packs would definitely be amazing. But again the question that arises is "which champs"? Only the newer ones with an actual VO and an actual personality. Which is understandable. But a bit annoying if your champ is outdated. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, again don't get me wrong. I'm lucky two of my favourite champions are Kayle and Morgana. All in all... I don't know what to think about it. In a perfect world, everyone would get a shot at having a Voice Pack or a Voice Announcer for their main. But that's not how it works sadly :/
: 2019 Lore Tournament - Day 2: The Winterspike Road vs The Final Reign
Ngl I was very 'whatever' reading both stories... Not that they aren't good but they didn't leave a mark on me. I'm going with Darius on that one because... Idk, reasons?
: 2019 Lore Tournament - Day 1: What once Sailed Free vs Aftermath
Aftermath in my humble opinion! But hey I have an Anthony Reynolds bias so... :x
: How do you keep track of Bios Updates on the Universe website?
They were doing Patch Lore Updates but these won't resume until 2020 so until then, there's no real way apart from doing it manually. We do a pretty good job at tracking them [here](http://discord.gg/wxRnKet), if you're ever interested!
NemeBro (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Falrein,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=wRddEdZ0,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-11-12T18:04:53.186+0000) > > Well... That's actually interesting. I personally disagree, if only because even without the godlike beings, we still had much more powerful champions than others (take Syndra and, say, Vi). Though I understand your point, I think that it's important to remember that these godlike beings generally won't come across much weaker champions. Or, if you've read Silence for the Damned, human will can do wonders! > > Regarding Fizz, it's just a theory. I actually don't think it's true (who eats with a fork like that anyway?) > > Aurelion Sol is an actual concerning case given he's just a giant beast that isn't even on Runeterra and can't fit many stories on it. > > Overall I think, comparing a god to a mere mortal is a mistake if they aren't to ever meet, and even then you have mortals-ish with very potent powers (Lissandra, Syndra, Ryze, Vladimir)! The difference is that Vi, if Syndra was in arm's reach, would still be able to punch Syndra's head off. And in regards to other powerful champions, like the Ascended and some of the Voidborn, while very powerful they still operated on a personal scale and could feasibly be confronted by other, weaker champions, even if only outnumbered. Aurelion Sol and champions around his level are so incredibly powerful they could destroy the solar system all the other champions live in. What meaningful interactions can these champions have? It's comic booky bullshit and should have never been done.
> The difference is that Vi, if Syndra was in arm's reach, would still be able to punch Syndra's head off. That's a hard disagree from me again. First of all because we've seen instances with something like this happening and failing (Sirik tried to stab Syndra in The Dreaming Pool and failed despite Syndra being asleep during half the time). Secondly because it's too easy. I can tell you "Let Syndra or Lissandra get free hits on Ornn and they'll kill him" (which admittedly they could given Lissandra has already killed Spirit Gods and Syndra's powers are very handy against Spiritual stuff). > Aurelion Sol and champions around his level are so incredibly powerful they could destroy the solar system all the other champions live in. What meaningful interactions can these champions have? Again, A.Sol is unique and concerning. He is the only champion wielding this much destructive power. Others are pretty self-contained, even if way above mortals. It isn't a problem for Runeterra. It is a problem for him. They could just tell stories within the Celestial Realm to solve that issue, yet they seem not to want to. > And in regards to other powerful champions, like the Ascended and some of the Voidborn, while very powerful they still operated on a personal scale and could feasibly be confronted by other, weaker champions, even if only outnumbered. The Ascended ruled over whole Shurima. Mordekaiser conquered(ish) Valoran. The Darkin almost ended humanity. Kayle and Morgana's existence allowed Demacia to survive. I don't call that 'personal'? But K&M's existence doesn't lessen Lux's for instance. Yes they are more powerful but they aren't meant for the same storylines. And it's fine! Not everyone can or has to be a world-savior (or threat). There are different levels of impact on the world and there's nothing wrong with that. It doesn't take away the enjoyment you get from a story. Just because Kayle and Morgana are fighting above Demacia doesn't mean you can't enjoy Caitlyn tracking some villains down, or Draven killing people while being hot and sexy!
AIQ (NA)
: {{champion:134}} You hit the nail on the head with your own concerns. In addition to her relevance and motivation, Syndras purpose, why does she exist? All her enemies are dead and people she hated are likely dead. She could have a grudge against Ionia, which would be interesting. Perhaps along with Zed to shut down the island she could be a huge factor there. Ultimately I'm concerned because Syndra is on of Riots weird palce champions and Riot seems to do a bad job with them. {{champion:102}} They already broke her lore, the removal of her father and her mother attacking her for no reason is pretty weak writing. IMO. I hope though that with a rework comes her lore rework as well. Currently Shyvana does not fit into the Lux timeline very well, unless Riot make some weird changes. Then you run into the situation that why was the prince/kings most powerful guard absent as rebels were trying to kill him? I mean if Shyvana is there but hidden behind the "break in case of an emergency glass" since she's ya know... purple. Then why on earth is the king getting assassinated and J4 being forced to eat rats not a case to break that glass? I fear severely how they are going to tie this in or retcon Shyvana for a 4th time. {{champion:19}} Feels super good atm as a Zaunite, again though he is a weird champion and likely will get weaker treatment than say Akali in his lore. Would be cool to see him tied to Soraka again in someway, but that's wishful thinking. I just hope they don't try to make him into some sort of hero. He's a vigilante, but not a hero. {{champion:136}} Targon consistently becomes more OP, but Aurelion is... well a Star Dragon. He clearly is insanely powerful and likely the most powerful character to date. Does the Aspect ever become as powerful as Sol? What exactly prevents Sol from snapping his fingers on runeterra or mount Targon and dusting it? Clairty on his limitations is what I'm sacred of since I want them to make sense and not just be, "well because we are Riot." {{champion:131}} {{champion:89}} The dichotomy they share and rivalry is epic, and likely the most recognizable in league exempting maybe Thresh and Lucian. The void, it is very unexplored and makes little sense in some areas. Some people would just peek into the void and are corrupted. Even and ascended like Aatrox was corrupted, but Kaisa was fine living most of her life in a area filled with void creatures and obtaining a suit of pure void monster? The voids object (I thought) was to consume everything, why would the suit not want to kill Kaisa? It's still a void creature, and she is not using it to help the void. The void needs to be heavily explored, but I feel like it will not be the super scary and overwhelming place many think of it to be.
> {{champion:134}} You hit the nail on the head with your own concerns. In addition to her relevance and motivation, Syndras purpose, why does she exist? All her enemies are dead and people she hated are likely dead. > > She could have a grudge against Ionia, which would be interesting. Perhaps along with Zed to shut down the island she could be a huge factor there. Ultimately I'm concerned because Syndra is on of Riots weird palce champions and Riot seems to do a bad job with them. Well... I can't speak for other champions as, again, I mostly think about Syndra... But I can tell that my biggest _hopes_ for her would be **NOT** to ally with Zed in the first place haha. Mostly because I'd rather see her independant and be her own thing. On a more serious note, I'd really love her to _be_ the Dark Sovereign. To build her own faction. Ultimately, she was denied her potential because of what Ionia holds dear the most: Balance. She may be the only one who was forcefully denied her freedom and power, but surely there are people who are forced to restrain their potential. I'd like her to be the side that fights against balance so that people can live free of any boundary. It would be interesting in that balance is very important, so shattering it isn't necessarily good. But preventing individual exceptionalism because of that isn't either. She wouldn't be a perfect side, but she wouldn't be a bad side either. But that's just me :p ___________________ I agree with the rest of your points. Regarding Shyvana... One can only hope she'll have cool lore when she'll eventually get reworked!
: > [{quoted}](name=Falrein,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=wRddEdZ0,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2019-11-12T18:19:07.710+0000) > > I disagree with your point on Morg. She's not a whiny angry teen. Well angry, yes, but whiny? She does have a few edgy lines but overall she's still fine I think? > > She's still strong and powerful and badass. After all, in her early years she did "drive back her enemies in terror" and was called "The Sword of Shadow"! my biggest complaints with her is that she doesn't feel like a witch anymore, and that she hasn't done anything noticeable in the last 1000 years > > I can agree with the rest! Especially Zyra, tho it's still the beginning of her story so I think there's plenty of time! Her lore does say the growth isn't slowing... she aint angry shes ANGSTY big difference and yes shes whiny "She loves me, she loves me not, she loves me, she loves me not, she loves-----" and a lot of other things GENERALLY towards Kayle Sure her magic is still strong but she doesn't come across as powerful in her voice work anymore old morg was dope af "You too will know pain" fucking damn gurl okay i see you new Morg "LOOK WHAT YOU MADE ME DO" 'Uh scuse me, what did I make you do exactly?'
I disagree again. The "loves me, loves me not" is her joke line, so I think you shouldn't pay too much attention to it? It's not even directed towards Kayle specifically. A lot of her quotes are, yes, because she _is_ angry at her! And I think that's fine? And I also disagree on this one? I mean... All of her attack quotes 'FEEL MY PAIN!' or "I TOLD YOU TO REMAIN!" or "PAIN MUST BE FELT!". Her quotes overall give her a more interesting personality while keeping her "feel pain" side. It's just less present because she's more than that. As for the "Look what you made me do!" it's a reference to the fact that she rejects her celestial power and it's sort of like a "I was forced to unbind my wings because of you!" or something? Idk I like that line
Jikker (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Falrein,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=wRddEdZ0,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2019-11-12T18:26:14.035+0000) > > Mmh... That's actually interesting to discuss. They _have_ moved lore forward a bit (Demacia in particular). Looking at Jarvan, he's had a big character development (even if it's in what seems to be a negative way)! Regarding Ryze... My own theory is that he won't find them all. I actually even wonder if we won't see the Runes resurface... After all, they are buried under a forest of petricite, which absorbs magic... And there's someone who can actually see magic there... :p As for Shurima, do remember that Xerath won't let Azir restore Shurima so easily, so it's not so much about Azir not restoring Shurima but the outcome of their fight maybe? > > As for the Void invasion stuff... I get the fear. But I think, looking at the past, you can take solace in the fact that there is no need of a full attempt! Icathia happened and it was still just on Shurima, so I think there's a way to move champions like Kassadin and Malzahar forward? I mean that's just my take, I'm trying to see if I can reassure people on their fears :x Those were all just examples. There are other examples too. It's basically a generic fear of stagnation instead of moving forward because they don't want to change the champions too much. Imagine if a champion died or almost died. The closest we've gotten is GP, but that was during his rework and the event had some massive backlash. Will we ever get to see Nunu or Annie as teens or adults seeing where they go in life after their childhood (there's that thread on the Boards right now talking about Annie growing up to be part of the Black Rose for example)? Will relationships ever move forward in lore? Will rivalries be resolved? Attitudes changed? Sides switched? There's a lot of progression that could happen, but I only see Riot focusing on the past with the exception of Senna. There are lots of champions out there that we could have books written about as we follow them forward, but do we really want to see them mature, change, grow, or even die? It's an interesting conundrum that I worry Riot will never tackle.
Well I can't speak for others... But on my side of things, I've always expected Syndra to die at some point. Generally speaking, I'm always prepared for a character to die. And I think death is fine! So long as the champion has had an interesting life, I'm all good with it! If, for instance, Syndra dies in her next story... Well yeah, I might be disappointed. But I do think it's important to see characters mature and evolve and, eventually, die. I'd rather see my favourite champions die than become some nonsensical things! :p
: {{champion:266}} {{champion:82}} Riot barely progressing their lore at all or turning them into jobbers who can't make any progress towards their goals because if they managed to advance in any way it'd have drastic changes on the world (Unless they decided to redeem Aatrox or something idk). I know Riot isn't as afraid to put regions into peril anymore (like they are currently with Sylas' mage rebellion in Demacia), but we're talking one guy leading a rebellion in one region vs the two I listed whose plans are either to annihilate all life or conquer the entire world, which would eventually force everyone else to postpone their story lines to deal with them. Not to mention we have other world ending threats going on as well (the Void, for example), so these guys might have to wait a while before they can do anything significant.
Yeah, the fear of not seeing threats being developped is something. What I would argue is, these make plot hooks and storylines. Just because they want to destroy the world doesn't mean they'll succeed (and, let's face it, they probably won't). You can still tell stories about them! I'd also argue that just because they want to destroy the world doesn't mean the _whole world_ has to fight them! Mordekaiser was defeated by some tribes with the help of LeBlanc after all :p I may be wrong of course, but that's how I look at it! Just like how Liss singlehandedly took care of freezing the Watchers, even if at a great cost!
Wet Dryman (EUNE)
: I don't have any because Gragas hasn't been touched at all since a long time and nothing suggests that it will change.
: > [{quoted}](name=Falrein,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=wRddEdZ0,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-11-12T18:08:58.978+0000) > > 1. So your point 1 is like mine. You don't want them to be irrelevant (Ascended, I mean). Though my concern is that they would be over-relevant (leaving no place for other champions to do anything). It's the same concern I have about Irelia, her being so relevant that everyone else becomes irrelevant. Well, the Ascended ARE the big players of Shurima. I really wouldn't like Sivir or Talyiah suddenly being able to 1v1 an Ascended. Azir no shit is relevant asf. He is the Emperor. Xerath too (the rival one that is) > 2. On that one... I don't think that's a problem. It'd be one if Ryze was a big villain, but I'd assume most people coming for him are actually powerful (like Brand)? I can't think of any weak champion who would try and fight him for any reason? Ryze travels all around the world. Eventually he may run into one of the more popular champs and fight them for whatever reason (aka for example they wanna stop him from sacrificing a bunch of ppl so he could secure a World Rune to save countless more or some shit)
But then you find yourself with the opposite problem. Should Taliyah and Sivir be irrelevant just because Azir and Xerath exist? It's not about 1v1ing an Ascended, but about being relevant! Well, don't we all fear that popularity will vanquish our powerful mains...? Though in all seriousness, I _can't_ see that happen. Unless said-champ wields the Rune (which then would make sense), I think you can rest easy? At least that's how I feel, I may be wrong but that's not something I think can happen to Ryze
Jikker (NA)
: I don't have specific fears, but I do have a generic fear -- that Riot won't move characters forward beyond the little bit we know. They'll be willing to discuss their past, but not their future causing champions to stagnate. For example, we will probably never get to see the full attempt at a Void invasion, which stagnates the void champions and those associated with it like Kassadin and Malzahar. I also worry that they will not want to compromise a champion's current state to bring them to a different state for example, finally crowning J4 as king, Ryze finding all the world runes, or the complete restoration of Shurima under Azir.
Mmh... That's actually interesting to discuss. They _have_ moved lore forward a bit (Demacia in particular). Looking at Jarvan, he's had a big character development (even if it's in what seems to be a negative way)! Regarding Ryze... My own theory is that he won't find them all. I actually even wonder if we won't see the Runes resurface... After all, they are buried under a forest of petricite, which absorbs magic... And there's someone who can actually see magic there... :p As for Shurima, do remember that Xerath won't let Azir restore Shurima so easily, so it's not so much about Azir not restoring Shurima but the outcome of their fight maybe? As for the Void invasion stuff... I get the fear. But I think, looking at the past, you can take solace in the fact that there is no need of a full attempt! Icathia happened and it was still just on Shurima, so I think there's a way to move champions like Kassadin and Malzahar forward? I mean that's just my take, I'm trying to see if I can reassure people on their fears :x
: AHH excuse me for my stupidity, I just woke up not too long ago, lol. Your opener is was jusssst ambiguous enough and these lines in particular-- >Regarding Syndra, my biggest fear is that she'll be irrelevant. >My second fear is regarding Kayle and Morgana. Both of which I dearly love, and I fear one of them will eclipse the other.... And again, my biggest fear is that one of them becomes irrelevant next to the other. I was reading through a game-play lens. So i apologize. Can't think of any major story concerns off the top of my head, but I'm always down for a lore discussion!
: Don't go slapping romance on Celestial entities like {{champion:16}} Don't canonize {{champion:117}} x BS {{champion:45}} (she's too pure for that weirdo) Don't ruin {{champion:89}} by giving her the Morg update special STRONG BADASS > Whiny teen angst Let {{champion:25}} be a badass again whose independent from Kayle Make {{champion:143}} have more of an effect on the area she's in thats what i hope happens and doesn't happen
I disagree with your point on Morg. She's not a whiny angry teen. Well angry, yes, but whiny? She does have a few edgy lines but overall she's still fine I think? She's still strong and powerful and badass. After all, in her early years she did "drive back her enemies in terror" and was called "The Sword of Shadow"! my biggest complaints with her is that she doesn't feel like a witch anymore, and that she hasn't done anything noticeable in the last 1000 years I can agree with the rest! Especially Zyra, tho it's still the beginning of her story so I think there's plenty of time! Her lore does say the growth isn't slowing...
alekzu (EUW)
: 1. That LoL won't live long enough to tell enough stories. 2. They will keep giving popular/favourite characters more and more lore while the others will keep with bare bones. While some may tell me to have more faith in the lore team, all I can say is that the worst stuff happen when you expect them the least. So far the lore team has done incredible job and occasionally little "mistakes". It's up to time before they make a move with massive disappointment. Maybe they already have and I just didn't feel the impact.
> 1. That LoL won't live long enough to tell enough stories. This one hits hard. But given LoL is still doing good and they have other games on the way, I feel like I can rest easy with this one! > 2. They will keep giving popular/favourite characters more and more lore while the others will keep with bare bones. _Jealously stares at Lux_ Yeah this one I understand. And though I feel like that too, I think it's important to highlight that some less popular champions got a fair amount of stories. Xin Zhao, for starter, was a nice surprise. Kalista too, and Vlad as well (I'm including stuff that's in the book, sorry if it is spoiling a little). Actually another problem that can be highlighted is that there are so many champions already (and so many more still about to come), and it's really hard to tell stories for everyone, especially with the slow pace they are going at. I can't blame them, since I know it's hard, but still!
: 1. Shurima and Azir My fear is that its plot results in Sivir gaining some Mary Sue-ish powers, becoming Empress alongside Taliyah, and all the Ascended dying because of some cliche Disney thingy with "hurr durrr their time has past". Turning Azir into a tyrant just to justify Talyiah and Sivir becoming leaders, etc etc. That fear was lessened by the new Realms of Runeterra book tho, which has a story featuring Azir (Graham is as always an amazing writer and I hope that him and Anthony get to continue the Shuriman arc) 2. Ryze being defeated by a weaker, but more popular champion just to highlight the underdog for the sake of popularity
1. So your point 1 is like mine. You don't want them to be irrelevant (Ascended, I mean). Though my concern is that they would be over-relevant (leaving no place for other champions to do anything). It's the same concern I have about Irelia, her being so relevant that everyone else becomes irrelevant. 2. On that one... I don't think that's a problem. It'd be one if Ryze was a big villain, but I'd assume most people coming for him are actually powerful (like Brand)? I can't think of any weak champion who would try and fight him for any reason?
m0zz4r3ll4 (EUNE)
: Honestly, I dislike the addition of "Gods" to the game{{champion:136}} {{champion:516}} Not only do they feel extremely underpowered in the game, but their lore makes other champions seem weaker in comparison Examples: {{champion:105}} trident is just {{champion:516}} ´s old fork {{champion:136}} vaporizing {{champion:80}} for fun I still enjoy these 2 champs, but their "godlike" status overwhelms all the other champs
Well... That's actually interesting. I personally disagree, if only because even without the godlike beings, we still had much more powerful champions than others (take Syndra and, say, Vi). Though I understand your point, I think that it's important to remember that these godlike beings generally won't come across much weaker champions. Or, if you've read Silence for the Damned, human will can do wonders! Regarding Fizz, it's just a theory. I actually don't think it's true (who eats with a fork like that anyway?) Aurelion Sol is an actual concerning case given he's just a giant beast that isn't even on Runeterra and can't fit many stories on it. Overall I think, comparing a god to a mere mortal is a mistake if they aren't to ever meet, and even then you have mortals-ish with very potent powers (Lissandra, Syndra, Ryze, Vladimir)!
Ahris (NA)
: I hope riot wont make Ahri stay with Wu Kung. Like, Ahri wants to be a human and she chooses to stay with an animal????? Doesnt even make sense. Just make her be with no one lol. But ya, Wu has no connection with Ahri in lore, so I am assuming that Ahri and Wu relationship never happened.
Yup, so far they haven't even met so you're pretty safe :p
Lewanor (NA)
: Talon is now General Du Couteau. Talon itself doesn't exist anymore. Oh also, I'd be just disappointed if they made him into a generic assassin guy but that's not the end of the world.
Is that an actual fear? I don't think they'd go as far as to erase Talon... Again, I know it's probably an irrational fear, the best I can tell you is, it would be ridiculous in that General du Couteau and Talon can exist separately and create different story hooks, and putting them as one would only reduce these potential story hooks!
: Gee whiz, you're a regular mind-reader. Here are my two (or three) Big Worries: 1. Karthus. I'm worried that a lore "update" will scrap the part where he wants to help and just make him a generic Spooky Evil Preacher Guy. For me, the best part of Karthus' character is the vast chasm between how much he _thinks_ he's helping and how much he's _actually_ helping. I don't want him to lose that depth. 2. Rhaast. I'm worried about a potential "always evil" backstory when the dude finally gets, you know, a backstory. The point of the Darkin is that they _were_ decent people who then became terrible, not that they were terrible people who became worse. 3. Rhaast, Part 2. My biggest concern with Rhaast is personhood. I'll use Aatrox as an example. Aatrox is consistently referred to as a person, not a thing. A "he," not an "it." This in no way diminishes the evil of his actions, but reminds us that there's a person doing them. Rhaast, on the other hand, is mostly seen from Kayn's perspective. Kayn only knows him as a scythe. So to Kayn (and thus the reader), Rhaast is a thing, an "it". Instead of being a person trapped in a weapon, he's just a weapon. A thing that needs to be vanquished/dominated/controlled instead of a person who needs to be stopped. It's like a really, really bad take on the Venom symbiote. I don't want Riot to double down on that rhetoric, 'cause dehumanization is wrong no matter who you're doing it to.
Yeah, as we discussed, the first problem is about theme right? I feel ya. Not much I can tell you, I'd like to tell you "He's up to date don't worry!" but they did that with Thresh so... Well, that's not helping, but I'll agree in that Karthus thinking he's helping is actually interesting in his story! Better than "Well, he just wants to kill everyone omegalul!"! Rhaast... Is that a champion? :kappa: Well see I never noticed that part, which is why I asked the question in the first place. On your first point, I'd argue that "evil for the sake of evil" is something Riot is actively fighting against (yesterday still I saw Scathelocke say that just "being evil" isn't a good story/motive) so if that's any help... :x As for the second part... Well yeah. I guess it'd come to down to whenever Rhaast gets an actual backstory... While I don't think we'll see that in Zed: Zed, fingers crossed we'll get some info on Rhaast!
: They've messed with Taliyah so much already. They ruined her for mid lane. She just has so many bad matchups now because they gutted her waveclear. I hate playing jungle. All I want is Taliyah mid back. Every time a pro player picks her I get worried they'll nerf her again somehow.
Well I was more thinking about an in-lore context but I guess that works too...? :p
Rioter Comments
: New player and looking to learn about the lore, but where do I start?
Short answer? Start with whatever sounds good to you. Take a look at the champion section, and if someone catches your eye, just go for it. ~~Though start with Morgana or Syndra~~ If you're ever looking for some help, feel from to join the [Lore of League discord](http://discord.gg/wxRnKet), it's full of wonderful people passionate about lore who'll happily answer your questions should you have any!
Riot Pls (NA)
: Future Stories
I've said it before but - I'd love a story in which we get to see what the Spirit Realm is like around Syndra. What effects her magical fallout have on the Spirit Realm when looking directly at it (it must be pretty fucked up!) Not only do I think it would be very interesting as a story, I also think it would help her plot progression, gaining a better understanding of her power, how they work, and just how dangerous it is. I know it's so very specific and unlikely but it's just so interesting to me! _________ Another thing I would've liked was, instead of the Canticle of the Winged Sisters -which is a great story-, the story of Kayle and Morgana's fight. I imagine it is now too late, though I can't help but think there will be a rematch whenever Kayle comes down from Targon, and I really want to see that. Both to progress their stories, and to show what they've been doing for the past millenia (have they been training? Or just crying in a hut?) Generally speaking I would just love a story with both Kayle and Morgana!
: I wonder then, do you think theres 2 definitions and standards of justice, one for mortals and one for celestials? I wonder if true justice is impossible. It would explain why the mom is implied to be dead. Maybe the 2 parts of her, of order and compassion, didnt mix well inside her, and just erupted, causing her to "die".
I think it's more complicated than "Justice for Celestials and justice for mortals"... But fundamentally... Yes? The thing is, Celestials and mortals are fundamentally different. Going by Soraka's bio, celestials seem to want a perfect order. Everything, to them, is supposed to go according to a plan, a pattern. Mortals are all about creating their own paths and future, so I would say the visions of justice of both is quite different, which can be seen in Kayle and Morgana. Kayle is all about the action, she doesn't care about the motives, if you did something against the law (=pattern, plan), you must be punished. Morgana cares about the motives (why did you make that decision to do something bad?), and also forgiveness (let them make their own paths if they show a desire to repent) which applies more to mortals. However, nothing is perfect. Can you truly punish everyone who did something bad if they did it for the best of reasons? On the other hand, can you truly forgive everyone who desires to repent if they did the worst of things? ____________ I don't know about that, Mihira seems to have fought for months, so I think if anything happened to her it was because of something else? I truly have no idea, we lack info about her!
: But Morgana is justice as well. I do think the mother would be more stern and strict, but even so, I would love to see that small bit of compassion. Like imagine a Kayle who treasures human bonds, itd be amazing to see
Oh I know, Morgana's justice is just different than Kayle's. Both of them are in my top 3 of favourite champs. I don't really care about Mihira, we know so little about her. However, we know Kilam had to abandon her because he feared for the girls' safety, and she apparently never tried to come back to her daughters (and given the sword thing, she apparently knew where they were), so I'm not sure she was treasuring human bonds. Don't get me wrong, I understand your point and why you like it, I'm just against it because it would basically mean Kayle and Morgana are just failed, half-versions of Mihira, which would be really meh to me. I rather think Kayle and Morgana are unique (after all, they are half celestial and half human, that must mean something, right?), even though both try to reject one side of their heritage. Kayle and Morgana are meant to be better together. In every way. I rather think that together, they are a better version of Justice than the concept (and, to an extent, Mihira) could ever be. Both because there's two of them, and because they are both inherently celestial and mortal. But that's just me!
: Kayle and Morg are fragments of the aspect of justice
While Kayle and Morgana embody two different versions of Justice, we don't know if Mihira was the perfect blend between the two. Kayle seems to idealize her mother, who was the Aspect of Justice on Runeterra. If Mihira was the perfect balance between K&M's versions of Justice, why does Kayle still think the way she does? She went to the Celestial Realm. Regardless of whether she saw her mother, she very likely met Celestials. Which would include Justice. Kayle aspires to be as close to her mother as possible, so if Justice had told her that her mother was a perfect blend of K&M, she would probably try and be that. And she's not. That's conjectural but it makes the most sense. On a more general note, I dislike the idea. It kind of sounds like Kayle and Morgana are just pieces of Justice, and failed versions of Mihira, who would be a perfect character. I'd also like to point out an Aspect doesn't necessarily embody everything the concept is about. Looking at Twilight, Zoe and Myisha are two completely different personalities. Because Myisha was colder and crueller, she could do what needed to be done. I wouldn't be surprise if Mihira was more like Kayle, more stern in her task of stopping the Rune Wars. I rather think Kayle and Morgana are their own persons with their own views on things, and not just some bad, half versions of their mother...
: There was a time where we weren't sure how to best do these updates... To be honest, we're still not sure. There are some characters where, who they are in the lore, vs. what they sound like in game, has drifted for years and outside of a VGU where we definitively say "this is who the character is"... it's really hard to communicate and negotiate those differences. This is what killed the Miss Fortune VO update (not sure if you've seen that come up on the boards). Everyone at Riot is passionate about characters and their VO, though, which is why we keep finding opportunities even though we're not quite sure what best practices should be yet. I hope you enjoyed the Ashe update, even if it's not Cait.
> There are some characters where, who they are in the lore, vs. what they sound like in game, has drifted for years and outside of a VGU where we definitively say "this is who the character is"... it's really hard to communicate and negotiate those differences. This is what killed the Miss Fortune VO update (not sure if you've seen that come up on the boards). Pardon the intrusion, but may I ask, does the not having a clear idea on a character's personality make it problematic for this kind of update? I feel like VOs are amazing at depicting a champion's personality, and while I know the opportunities are really rare, we've had 3 VO updates this year, which does spark a little hope! But I am somewhat afraid that, assuming an opportunity arises, you couldn't seize it because you don't yet have a clear, established direction for X or Y character. I must say though, I am very thankful for the fact that you're trying to find opportunities like that. I am personally hoping to someday see Syndra get a VO update, and while I know the opportunities are rare and that it is complicated, the fact that you're trying your best is what keeps me hoping. So thank you for your work, really!
: The reason Kennen&Akali turns up there while Shen doesnt is because everyone in the kinkou has bascially ditched Shen to fight Noxus while he sat back and said "let nature take it´s course" more or less. Irelia? She was always a frontline fighter and Karma joined in on it. The place before the village where Ionian coalition met Noxus? It was the best place to actually fight Noxus and prevent the invasion from actually getting anything, for a few reasons. 1. By stopping the invasion early they prevent enemies from digging in and building fortifications which would enable them to do so much more. 2. They prevent defilement of their homeland (Important for them) 3. Home ground benefits. (Supplies,easy to rest, known terrain, ability to setup traps and their own defences) 4. Prevent enemies from resting and gathering supplies by plundering. So all in all it was not just a random battle on Ionia´s part, it was fairly well considered. However its not actually impossible that Syndra has some connection to either the Celestial titans or possibly even the Spirit realm and that the reason the landspirit did not kill her was to somehow nurture her into a powerhouse that could protect it. Which is also a hella farfetched idea given that it basically just tortured her but the entire thing about it not killing her if it hated her so much in the first place is also weird, it should't have anything to gain by just tormenting her and the risk was high. It´s really hard to guess what the Spirit was gunning for ._.
I disagree on the first part. Well, no we know about Akali, but I disagree about the Kennen part. I'd hate to see him just be a replica of Akali's lore "Oh no, Shen balance bad, me leaving". Which is why I like this take, he doesn't have to leave Shen, he can be there as an agent of the Kinkou. I know, I believe that's the point of Irelia in Awaken, showing her determination, etc, etc. _________________________ I can accept that I'm probably wrong on the whole thing, but I don't believe it was well-considered on Ionia's part. Noxus is sending such a small force to Ionia, even with Sion, it's still a small force and I assume Swain knows that the powerhouses in Ionia could take him down. Either the village is very important (more so than just for tactical purposes) which would prove my theory, _or_ this is just a diversion which would... Support another of my theories that Swain is looking for someone/something (Syndra? Kinkou knowledge?) to fight Mordekaiser, which admittedly is more likely. _______________________ As for the Spirit of Ionia trapping Syndra, I think the point of the Dreaming Pool was to help her change her course. It was obviously not a good way, but the dream and loop motifs associated together like this is common. The point, I believe, was to prompt Syndra into choosing to stay calm over choosing to give in to her anger, which she never did. It is not the Spirit's way to kill, or to torture. I believe the Spirit cares for all of the children of Ionia, but that it had no idea on how to handle Syndra and, out of option, tried to do whatever it could? It may tie-in to her powers, what they do and their (unknown) origin. I'm quite clueless on that one. Riot Syndra color story when? T_T
: You're insane, but I agree! (Neva said I wasn't insane)
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Falrein

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