Moody P (NA)
: Summoner Spells deserve an update
{{summoner:21}} {{summoner:3}} are so ennuyous
: truly unpopular opinion
ofc, gold and below are triggered by this and they're the majority
: > [{quoted}](name=Fire Blaustoise,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7vEvuEdF,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-01-18T13:42:01.380+0000) > > Unpopular opinion : bad players shouldnt concern about balance. > > Supports can already do it. Is that why people leaves the game to play other games?
Guess what ? they leaves but come back.
Elohaven (NA)
: Game is still garbage for most melee champions. It's only fun for assassins who use electrocute/dark harvest.
Depend on your elo. The more you climb the less fun it is for most assassins (by assassin i mean laners). Like Zed is judged broken in low elo, but we're closer of trash in high elo (as top and jungle im more likely to dodge if my mid pick zed). Your issue with Zed in low elo is you dont punish them during lane and low map awarness (like you can't rely on your bot lane to retreat when mid ping SS) Dark Harvest is trash for most.
LTK KoRo (EUW)
: Tanks item are pretty shit anyway
Yes and no. They are bad due to Conqueror and {{item:3020}} {{item:3916}} {{item:3135}}. But FluffyUnicorn talk about pre Conqueror when every top rushed {{item:3047}} . And bullied any top. So he's right, instead create this version of Conqueror, riot shouldve nerfed tanks and their items. Most toplaners begged for this.
: And then? What does fervor do if you don't hurt tanks? Like you guys keep talking for weeks on end about conq and bruisers despite you guys having zero clue what you talk about. Because shockingly you don't play toplane or even bruisers to begin with. If conq is removed bruisers go straight back to trash tier. Oh wait THE GOOD BRUISERS AREN'T EVEN CONQ USERS TO BEGIN WITH. It just lets kled, renek and similar champs stay relevant past 10 minutes and let them deal with tanks AS IT IS INTENTED. Irelia is broken because it's irelia and it's hilarious to me conq is now scapegoated for her being strong despite electrocute especially midlane being her best keystone for quite some time. But nono conq is the problem with the game obviously. Tanks cannot walk toplane and rightclick bruisers to death anymore, the horror. Let's remove 50 champs from the game so mao, cho, poppy can be mindlessly spammed again and autowin everything ever. That's the league we want zero interaction, zero mechanics, zero skill. Farm up and hope your botlane carries and this is where most of the conq circlejerk actually comes from. Armless ADC mains that cannot fathom they aren'T super broken anymore and that the problem with adcs is the current GAME ITSELF AND THEIR OWN LACK OF SKILL. Just look at the top ladder of korea how many adc mains you find and yes they do not play crit carries that has a reason and the reason is not conq. Too fast, too snowbally, way too much impact by the jungler especially combined with a competent midlaner.Hilariously oppressive supports but we rather close our eyes and pretend nothing happens when alistar, rakan destroy adcs in the lane. But somehow they cling to this illusion that if we just make tanks happen in toplane again ADCs will be all powerful again. Like do you guys even realize even with fervor bruisers weren't doing too hot toplane? And it was all maokai, nauti for months? And eventually poppy. The old rune tree atleast gave 7% armor pen on top of fervor combined with black cleaver it was SOMETHING. But that was even before bramble garbage, adaptive helmet and shit that remove bruisers from the game. Without conq an ADC with GA and tabis is basically unkillable. Same with fuckin mages who somehow got to get massive pen while being able to go tabis, seeker, not sacrifice any AP or CDR or anything AND ALSO GET HIGH HEALTH STATS ON TWO MAJOR ITEMS if they choose to.
>Like you guys keep talking for weeks on end about conq and bruisers despite you guys having zero clue what you talk about. > Because shockingly you don't play toplane or even bruisers to begin with. Only tanks players and non toplaners want tanks back. Most toplaners hate these non lane. Tanks current state is closer of what they should always be. Farm till ganks or team fight. And honestly, tanks aren't in so bad spot (Poppy, Sion, Maokai, Malphite, cho are more than playable). >If conq is removed bruisers go straight back to trash tier. Oh wait THE GOOD BRUISERS AREN'T EVEN CONQ USERS TO BEGIN WITH. Yeah, only Riven rules top (Jax will be nerfed... and he's not even top tier the closer of go to master. >What does fervor do if you don't hurt tanks? What will it change ?? simple, nothing. They're only parroting each other... like usual. You're downvoted, and most disagree for a simple reason : they want toplane to become botlane b*tch again. >Without conq an ADC with GA and tabis is basically unkillable. I really think tabi need another nerf.
: > [{quoted}](name=GayFluffyUnicorn,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0AUeWiM7,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2019-01-17T19:38:30.397+0000) > > And then? > What does fervor do if you don't hurt tanks? > > Like you guys keep talking for weeks on end about conq and bruisers despite you guys having zero clue what you talk about. > > Because shockingly you don't play toplane or even bruisers to begin with. > > If conq is removed bruisers go straight back to trash tier. Oh wait THE GOOD BRUISERS AREN'T EVEN CONQ USERS TO BEGIN WITH. > It just lets kled, renek and similar champs stay relevant past 10 minutes and let them deal with tanks AS IT IS INTENTED. Irelia is broken because it's irelia and it's hilarious to me conq is now scapegoated for her being strong despite electrocute especially midlane being her best keystone for quite some time. But nono conq is the problem with the game obviously. Tanks cannot walk toplane and rightclick bruisers to death anymore, the horror. Let's remove 50 champs from the game so mao, cho, poppy can be mindlessly spammed again and autowin everything ever. That's the league we want zero interaction, zero mechanics, zero skill. Farm up and hope your botlane carries and this is where most of the conq circlejerk actually comes from. Armless ADC mains that cannot fathom they aren'T super broken anymore and that the problem with adcs is the current GAME ITSELF AND THEIR OWN LACK OF SKILL. Just look at the top ladder of korea how many adc mains you find and yes they do not play crit carries that has a reason and the reason is not conq. Too fast, too snowbally, way too much impact by the jungler especially combined with a competent midlaner.Hilariously oppressive supports but we rather close our eyes and pretend nothing happens when alistar, rakan destroy adcs in the lane. But somehow they cling to this illusion that if we just make tanks happen in toplane again ADCs will be all powerful again. > > Like do you guys even realize even with fervor bruisers weren't doing too hot toplane? And it was all maokai, nauti for months? And eventually poppy. > > The old rune tree atleast gave 7% armor pen on top of fervor combined with black cleaver it was SOMETHING. But that was even before bramble garbage, adaptive helmet and shit that remove bruisers from the game. > > Without conq an ADC with GA and tabis is basically unkillable. Same with fuckin mages who somehow got to get massive pen while being able to go tabis, seeker, not sacrifice any AP or CDR or anything AND ALSO GET HIGH HEALTH STATS ON TWO MAJOR ITEMS if they choose to. Actually Bruisers/Mages/and few assasins are broken. I either as jugerrnaut/bruiser player on top lane don't see reason why to remove Conqueror,make it 10% true damage.Nerf it. ADC sucks cause everyone blown sh11t out of them. And yeah..stop buffing tanks/enchnater with damage..give them propper buffs like uttility/armor/resist/health.
>Actually Bruisers/Mages/and few assasins are broken. Some bruisers are broken. Unlike mages (on mid) they don't even dominate top, not like a whole. >ADC sucks cause everyone blown sh11t out of them. Adc dont sucks. Crit adc sucks (and not all of them).
: He complains of ever under the sun regarding this game. obviously eventually he will get it right. If I say it's raining outside every single day. I will. Eventually. Be right. that doesn't mean I'm someone you should trust with balance or meteo.
Can agree or disagree, but there arguments.
: > [{quoted}](name=Monstermushmush,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0AUeWiM7,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-01-17T15:52:38.238+0000) > > Wut? He says that conquerer is a mistake. So isn't he right? Yeah...right now. Back when he was complaining about the game needing a "fighter specific keystone that lets fighters beat tanks in lane", no he wasn't. Hash is the type of guy that will NEVER be satisfied. Even when the game's in the palms of his hands (for some reason), he does nothing but show how much of a baby he is.
> [{quoted}](name=chipndip1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0AUeWiM7,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-01-17T17:11:11.562+0000) > > Yeah...right now. > > Back when he was complaining about the game needing a "fighter specific keystone that lets fighters beat tanks in lane", no he wasn't. He never said this. He said something like "bruisers have no keystone". He was right, everything was designed for other classes but bruiser. Tanks were an issue, and will be again when conqueror will be nerfed, cause riot were to lazy to fix them at the time.
: Unpopular opinion: Assassins should never be viable
Unpopular opinion : bad players shouldnt concern about balance. >Supports should be able to defend their allies, but it isn't possible with the absurd damage the game has today. Supports can already do it.
Rock MD (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=D357R0Y3R,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KtyFHxBR,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-01-17T16:19:52.357+0000) > > The support role is just an other word for "carries without items" > that's what it is in season 9 > > alistar pyke gragas elise brand zyra all can almost 100-0 you at lvl 3 You mean like when Annie was meta for half a season? It was season 4 no less, the season everyone here seems to claim was Riot's last good season. You're being fucking dramatic. You might not like the season but this isn't anything we haven't seen before.
Dont know about season 4 tbh. This elise sup isnt an issue too, GRF just play their style and its cool. But yeah, supports are too strong. Like every ap supports (even tanks like Alistar are tbh) are a threats.
Galiö (NA)
: That guy made it to rank 1 in Korea on support Elise and subbed top. Kinda just BM'd the enemy team. He missed every flash/cacoon and still won lll
its not bm. He legit duo carry with Tarzan this game.
: Trust me, I've talked about this champion since nearly her release. The excuse that people have always made for her is that she's "high skill cap", but they completely ignore that riot actively mitigates this "high skill cap" requirement by making her objectively more powerful. It's the same bullshit excuse that people give for yasuo or lee sin. People just like their flashy OP champions with near infinitely high skill caps that give the players a handicap with their built in power. It makes for exciting gameplay that fulfills their power fantasy. Even if it's actively bad game design and unhealthy for the community and the game.
> [{quoted}](name=deadlychuck,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=y8ktKBsw,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-01-16T23:58:32.679+0000) > > Trust me, I've talked about this champion since nearly her release. > > The excuse that people have always made for her is that she's "high skill cap" Totaly agree... but this bs come from non toplaners and rivens mains.
: You know you can 100-0 her as well when she’s building lethality... right?
: Top lane and population
>Top lane at this point has become a even more disliked role than support, top lane talent is even more rare, as most people don't even know the most basic of concepts of how to teleport, and thus started taking ignite top lane. (which is terrible in team play) But what has caused this great exodus of top laners through out all the elos? > >I believe the answer is simple > 1-TP overly nerfd 2-Tanks are still useless if you aren't Sion or Ornn (sometimes poppy) its only a NA & Low elo things. And its not a sometimes Poppy (she's good. Period). Tp is still the best summoner for toplane... at least until jungler get hard nerfed. do you really list Jax as juggernaut ? and as good in competitive ? {{item:3071}} isnt even in a good state. >. With tanks being so heavily nerfd, we are simply removing half of the top lane player population from the role. Its not true. Tanks players aren't even half of toplane player population. They're clearly far of this... not only because their current state. >If we want top lane main population to increase, than we need to buff the other half of top lane player base that we have essentially completely kicked out of both solo q and in team play. No. If you want to increase it, you need to up top lane impact. It will happen when riot will nerf jungle and mid impact (supports still avoid nerfs). Conqueror is already planned to be nerf.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 16
>Viktor - Holding off on any nerfs at present, not currently convinced there's enough evidence they're needed. not enough evidence ??? just look at pro if high elo games don't convince you (if we are talking about Viktop). >Zoe - As with Mundo and Shen, we want to see where systemic changes (nerfs to Ignite and Oblivion Orb/Morello's) leave Zoe, then reassess both whether she still needs a nerf and where best to take power if so. Belief is both of those nerfs will hit her a bit more than the average user. Im more surprised you have no plan to nerf {{item:3135}} &{{item:3285}}
Anìmê (NA)
: Remove the ranged, targeted, hard CC on a basic ability and then we can talk. Same goes for Fiddlesticks.
Moody P (NA)
: Animation cancel double standard
Don't know why, they're inconsistent anyway... But i really think they should remove these animation cancel instead adding. Im a bit biaised cause i really hate lane against Riven & Renekton.
: > [{quoted}](name=Fire Blaustoise,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gAuyGgV6,comment-id=003300000000,timestamp=2019-01-15T23:31:32.501+0000) > > Heimerdinger/Zyra. > Brand/Rakan > Vladimir/Swain.Adcs being less then useless. > > > im not talking about "weird picks" im talking about every other laners coming bot every game like in ardent meta. > > > most of these picks aren't even so strong IMO. > Oh..u probabbly saw him...but when was the last time u saw TANK malphite? > > i dont remember saw him, and its cool tbh. > > Yeah, for botlaners its true. For top the issue is still there, it will be their time to have no agency around victory. I think the best way to balance the game would be nerf AP (and most supp), nerf jng (already planned), nerfing the on > > i can't see how. i think your memory tricks you. > > unless kassadin around lv16 there all kited easly and controled. They're not so good in high elo (around D1). They do nothing against thresh, Alistar, pyke or morgana. > > i agree. I think they need to nerf harder AP items, assassins are fine (i dont include leblanc as mages), I think sterak need nerf, same tita burst, grasp damage should be tunned down IMO You have no idea what the f u are talking. You have ZERO malphite tanks now.You have zero cho gaths,zac players. Yes,AP items need nerf,its brutal.Leblanc,Kassadins.How much chances ADCs have to survive more than 0.21 second? Duskblade needs nerf.Kha zix/Rengar,they're still nightmare for ADCs.0-10 kha zix will still one shot caitlyn/kogmaW/varus. Titanic needs nerf,grasp doesn't need nerf.Maybe nerf damage but double the healing proc..like from 5 to 10,and in exchange nerf damage. But yeah..make all runes that goes to deffensive shit...better buff conqueror+electrocute.. Lmao...NERF THE ONLY DEFFENSIVE RUNE.Nah...wont work dude. Nerf electrocute/conqueror.
Are you high ??? thats what im saying, i have ZERO malphite in my games. no tanks no ap. Duskblade dont need nerfs. Kha'Zix need nerf. Most assassins are weak. Grasp is too strong, you can ask every toplaners around D2, you take grasp on any champion its enough to fix his lane issue. Yeah, healing compensation would be good. >But yeah..make all runes that goes to deffensive shit...better buff conqueror+electrocute.. Grasp defensive ??? lel. Conqueror will be remove, electrocute was already hard nerfed. Maybe you should expend your pov, spamming enchanter totaly narrowed your vision.
: > [{quoted}](name=Fire Blaustoise,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gAuyGgV6,comment-id=0033,timestamp=2019-01-15T20:05:03.376+0000) > > They weren't hard to kill. They were impossible to kill before x items as toplaner. > > The issue of tanks meta is for toplane. When tanks are strong, the carry potential of top is low for obvious reason. Toplane impact is the lowest after adc atm already, no need to nerf it further. > In tank meta, all role play for bot, top play a farm lane (cause they can't kill each other unless one made the mistake picking a bruiser) until an action happen bot for a tp plays, mid shove his lane then go bot, jungle farm until bot got their spike. > > > Botlaners i think most of you forgot the botlane fiesta (with double tp from mid and top) > > > Tldr ; f*** tank meta {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}} Actually season 8 was biggest clownfiesta on botlane. Heimerdinger/Zyra. Brand/Rakan Vladimir/Swain.Adcs being less then useless. Bot lane is determined by wich jungler/midlaner will roam/gank more times Bot,etc.. In enchanter/tank meta... We atleast had GROUPING with ur teammates and making a 5V5 fight,that lasted 30 seconds. What the F we have now? Teamfight? Does that even exists? U mean jump over the 20 walls,oneshot everyone,and again jump over 20 walls and end game? U can't survive against Diana/Khazix/rengar/yi/ekko/kassadin/irelia/jax/talon/zed All u will have is grey screen,no matter how much damage u pump to adc numbers,they will remain one shoted little fellas Tell me when was the last time u saw malphite? Oh..u probabbly saw him...but when was the last time u saw TANK malphite? Yeah...u can't remmember,me neither.Cause offense is best deffense,so we have now full AP malphites that also will one shot you,so no reason for them to tank something,when they can just kill everything. Tank meta had counters (kogmaw,vayne,varus) and atleast it was way strategic,u actually HAD teamfights.It actually EXISTED.And kiteing as an ADC/APC it also existed.Try kiteing now jax/kassadin/rengar..lmao. We just need to remove this insane burst damage.And make teamfights great again.Actually we just need to make teamfights exist.Cus they're non existent atm.
>Actually season 8 was biggest clownfiesta on botlane. Heimerdinger/Zyra. Brand/Rakan Vladimir/Swain.Adcs being less then useless. im not talking about "weird picks" im talking about every other laners coming bot every game like in ardent meta. >U can't survive against Diana/Khazix/rengar/yi/ekko/kassadin/irelia/jax/talon/zed most of these picks aren't even so strong IMO. >Tell me when was the last time u saw malphite? Oh..u probabbly saw him...but when was the last time u saw TANK malphite? i dont remember saw him, and its cool tbh. >Tank meta had counters (kogmaw,vayne,varus) Yeah, for botlaners its true. For top the issue is still there, it will be their time to have no agency around victory. I think the best way to balance the game would be nerf AP (and most supp), nerf jng (already planned), nerfing the on > atleast it was way strategic i can't see how. i think your memory tricks you. >Try kiteing now jax/kassadin/rengar..lmao unless kassadin around lv16 there all kited easly and controled. They're not so good in high elo (around D1). They do nothing against thresh, Alistar, pyke or morgana. >We just need to remove this insane burst damage. i agree. I think they need to nerf harder AP items, assassins are fine (i dont include leblanc as mages), I think sterak need nerf, same tita burst, grasp damage should be tunned down IMO
: Fear of Tank Metas vs What We Have Now
> But you people STILL needed ways to "deal with tanks" because they were "really hard to kill, QQ!!" You got Conqueror. They weren't hard to kill. They were impossible to kill before x items as toplaner. The issue of tanks meta is for toplane. When tanks are strong, the carry potential of top is low for obvious reason. Toplane impact is the lowest after adc atm already, no need to nerf it further. In tank meta, all role play for bot, top play a farm lane (cause they can't kill each other unless one made the mistake picking a bruiser) until an action happen bot for a tp plays, mid shove his lane then go bot, jungle farm until bot got their spike. Botlaners i think most of you forgot the botlane fiesta (with double tp from mid and top) Tldr ; f*** tank meta {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
: TP Proposed Change
I would just change the channeling... i think 6 mn cd is good enough, tp is already the most used summoners in decent elo & high elo. giving a penality if the tp is canceled is great idea IMO (but i would had more than 1 min). As toplaner, i would love having the 3,5 sec channel back, but its unlikely to happen cause of competitive.
: The new Essence Reaver and Spear of Shojin on the PBE
>Shojin will be useless with no mana. No. Its not an items for adc. This item will be used on Riven & Renekton, they have no mana. Then as second to third item for {{item:3078}} users. Even Wukong will be able to build it after {{item:3142}} {{item:3147}}
Stunˆˆ (EUW)
: Master tier, win rates this week (only looking at champs with 100+ games): Zed - 65%, 146 games Talon - 70%, 100 games Kha'Zix - 61%, 500 games Rengar, 57%, 300 games Shaco, 58% 250 games If you think this meta does not favour burst AD assassins then I want some of whatever the fuck you are smoking edit: source op.gg (stats -> win rate -> master -> today)
no source, no comparaison to other class. Baseless and biased post.
: Why did you change Spear of Shaojin to make it work on hypercarries like [Yi, Jax]? Part of why Wukong won't get a rework is the introduction of Bruiser items that would make him viable/semi-playable as a bruiser and shift his playstyle from the BS assassin type. Why do you always have to fuck things up and give items more AS steroids?
it would change nothing for Wukong. Wukong is build assassin due to his kit. Previous spear would just make him tankier (like BS)... but would be more ennuyous for Wu cause other champ would be tankier and abuse it better (Aatrox, River, Fiora, Yi...). Yeah, they f*ck up with Wukong but this spear is better for Wukong. Regardless of Shojin version, you will build this item as third (or second ). So it'll change nothing for Wukong. Wukong issue is his insanely weak early (awful laning, bad clear, weak gank...).
Poske (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Fire Blaustoise,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=05wBTYZe,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-01-14T03:16:08.037+0000) > > No point but... the ones with counterplay have plenty more tools than old one. Like you can compare Wukong to Camille. There no reason to pick Wukong when reaching decent elo (was same when he was judged as op by low elos). Champs with low counterplay usualy are predictable. > > Wukong isnt strong btw (he's trash). Jax has counterplay. Udyr isnt strong too, too easly kiteable in high elo. Hate to be that guy but cammile is not really a champion you should think of when you hear counterplay I know on paper it seems like she has counterplay but in reallity she doesnt
I get your point.... and agree at least for her ult (its the only issue i have as toplaner).
Cloud273 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Fire Blaustoise,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=05wBTYZe,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-01-14T03:16:08.037+0000) > > No point but... the ones with counterplay have plenty more tools than old one. Like you can compare Wukong to Camille. There no reason to pick Wukong when reaching decent elo (was same when he was judged as op by low elos). Champs with low counterplay usualy are predictable. > > Wukong isnt strong btw (he's trash). Jax has counterplay. Udyr isnt strong too, too easly kiteable in high elo. If Jax times the jump+stun combo correctly what's the counterplay to that? I can't think of anything. With Udyr it's literally impossible to fail with your abilities because they never miss (maybe you might accidentally hit the wrong target sometimes, but you're always getting SOMETHING done when you use them). He can stay in his stances as long as he wants and most of them have fairly short cooldowns. And yea he can be kited, but he's also a split push monster. If you leave him alone he will destroy your structures. And good luck trying to punish him. He just runs away and it's a complete waste of your time.
>If Jax times the jump+stun combo correctly what's the counterplay to that? using your abilities and take distance cause his stun isnt insta unlike Renekton, Riven... >If you leave him alone he will destroy your structures. And good luck trying to punish him. Ofc, you need to know how deal with splitt.
: Exactly. This is why Wukong specifically should remain unviable garbage until he is reworked. It's 2019, point and click no counterplay burst should disappear.
no, they should make him viable again. When they nerfed him he was already weak enough against good players (granted in low elo where players still learn the game he was strong).
Cloud273 (NA)
: I feel like the more counterplay a champ has the more garbage they are
>So what's the point of playing champs with counterplay when there are champs with zero counterplay who are just as strong? No point but... the ones with counterplay have plenty more tools than old one. Like you can compare Wukong to Camille. There no reason to pick Wukong when reaching decent elo (was same when he was judged as op by low elos). Champs with low counterplay usualy are predictable. Wukong isnt strong btw (he's trash). Jax has counterplay. Udyr isnt strong too, too easly kiteable in high elo.
: > [{quoted}](name=Fire Blaustoise,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fIHZ3Jf2,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-01-12T10:27:44.694+0000) > > By using your brain and your free mobility to 2v1 instead 1v1 for no reason. Except JG is a 2v2 role with top/mid and a 3 v 3 bot.. The other 2 v 2 role has one role being strong in the early game Sup and one role strong in the late game ADC. But for some reason people think Solo laners should have an advantage over Junglers the whole game.
Jungle is a 2v2 role i agree. But top is a 1v2 role. Mid is like bot 2v2 role. >But for some reason people think Solo laners should have an advantage over Junglers the whole game. But here some jungler think its legit to have advantage over solo laner thanks to {{item:3715}}. Unlike solo laners, jungle decide when they take the 2v1 or 2v2. the choice isnt up to solo laner.
BigFBear (EUW)
: D5 MMR is top 3% of players. In comparison to other Voli Junglers even less. Where does high Elo starts in your opinion? Top 0,0001%? Saying that Junglers shouldn't be able to fight/win 1on1 against laners because "they doing jungle/pve half of the game" is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a while.
> [{quoted}](name=BigFBear,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fIHZ3Jf2,comment-id=0000000000010000000100000000,timestamp=2019-01-12T12:55:37.655+0000) > > D5 MMR is top 3% of players. > In comparison to other Voli Junglers even less. > Where does high Elo starts in your opinion? D1 ofc. How could you play with D5 and think its high elo ? anyway.... > Saying that Junglers shouldn't be able to fight/win 1on1 against laners because "they doing jungle/pve half of the game" is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a while. I mean he's right... His point is "Jungler 1v1ing solo laners shouldnt be the norm". When you are fed its okay. I dont even understand why you think its fair tbg. Its same like adc complaining about being 1v1ed by assassins & bruisers. As jungler your roles is to support your team (by support i dont mean in soraka style ofc) by bringing visions and numerical advantage. WHY SHOULDNT YOU BE ABLE TO 1V1 A SOLO LANER ? Cause you dont have same constraint to farm. Sure in some game you have ennemy jungler invading you and denying you... but its not the norm, and atm with the vertical jungling it dosnt matter (granted vertical jungling isnt a thing until high elo).
: Mark my words, Riot has just forced Nasus into the jungle and that’s how they’ll balance him
>However, I’ve been seeing a lot of high elo streamers playing and complains about how absurd jungle Nasus is right now and that makes sense Its a NA thing.... I saw some EU streamers playing him and they all agree the pick is still trash in jungle. The pick is too weak during laning (good luck against champion like Aatrox, kled...), weak gank potential, meh clearing, easly kiteable... When meta will shift (i think we'll be back into tanks meta sadly) he'll be okay tho... in low elo. >Don’t try to say “ugh but Nasus jungle is a totally hip and secret strat that has a dedicated following” because that isn’t true. Yeah... really hope they wont. I dont wanna dodge every time a mate pick him in jungle. Jungle is the role where you're recquired to be proactive. >He’s a top lane and that’s how he should be balanced. {{sticker:vlad-salute}}
: > [{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fIHZ3Jf2,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2019-01-11T17:47:36.538+0000) > > the jungle also gets the ability to farm with far more safety than any lane and influence the map with a sheer numbers advantage in 2v1 or 3v2 in bottom lane ganks On the other hand, even though they have more unmbers they have absolutely no combat stats to speak of, get less CS, get less gold, get less XP. Can be killed more easily in a 1v1. Cannot defeat a laner in a 1v1. Unlike laners, they cannot take any other summoners besides smite and flash/ghost(maybe) so they have no combat summoners and this was given BEFORE ignite was buffed. I like how you skip over all of the cons. Red smite is perfectly fine, you still have a damage advantage even when it is used on you. > > there's no reason you should spend any of the early game on par with a laning champion in terms of gold value from items. Why not? They constantly suffer damage in the jungle and this places them at a higher risk than other champions, particularly AP champs. The only champion who goes through the jungle without any damage at all is graves.
>The only champion who goes through the jungle without any damage at all is graves. {{champion:19}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:5}} {{champion:141}} {{champion:9}}{{champion:11}} {{champion:20}} {{champion:203}} {{champion:29}} {{champion:60}}
Hügö (EUW)
: Because how else do you want to have a chance against someone when your role is designed to be permanent behind?
By using your brain and your free mobility to 2v1 instead 1v1 for no reason.
BigFBear (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=GayFluffyUnicorn,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fIHZ3Jf2,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2019-01-11T17:40:20.351+0000) > > Because you don't lane? > > Because you play PVE for half the game? > > Because there needs to be a trade off for you not having to fight an actual opponent, being able to influence the entire map and control the most powerful neutral objectives? Rofl what a bullshit post. You sound like someone who doesn't have any clue about jungling at all. First of all. I played lane and I play jungle and lane feels way more PvE than jungling with all this last hitting and lane controlling. Yes ofc i clear camps as same you "clear" your minions, but this is just what you do on your way to the ganks. I mean Junglers should have the opportunity to farm gold like laners have or not?? Second: We "control" objectives because we "sacrifice" one summoner spell for Smite. Feel free to do the same. Only because we play on a different "lane" than you do, doesn't mean we should be less worth in terms of fighting. Actually we already have less gold and XP than laner. And btw. every good laner I able "to influence the whole map". In high Elo they do it all the time with roaming and TP. Maybe not so much in Silver.
>We "control" objectives because we "sacrifice" one summoner spell for Smite. Mainly due to redsmite being so strong you dont sacrifice anything. >Only because we play on a different "lane" than you do, doesn't mean we should be less worth in terms of fighting. He's right tho. He talk about solo laners (mainly talking about top). Yeah, jungler 1v1ing solo laners shouldnt be the norm for obvious reasons. >And btw. every good laner I able "to influence the whole map". This bs. >In high Elo they do it all the time with roaming and TP. Maybe not so much in Silver. You are plat, dont talk about high elo and above all dont get cocky.
Necroash (NA)
: Why Is Ornn Getting Nerfed Again?
>Why Is Ornn Getting Nerfed Again? Obviously cause he's op. Again this boards should stop focusing on wr
: He gave a % they are aiming at and they are most likely going to hit it with those changes so what's your point? That entire "LOL 5 AD" meme is based on the community being dumb, since that particular nerf that spawned it essentially removed Top lane Nidalee that was domination for a long time entirely.
> > That entire "LOL 5 AD" meme is based on the community being dumb, since that particular nerf that spawned it essentially removed Top lane Nidalee that was domination for a long time entirely. Nidalee ?? are you talking about this change ? >V4.17 General Attack damage reduced to 44 from 49. Attack speed reduced to 0.638 from 0.670. So... can we take in account this (on same patch) >Takedown Takedown Minimum AD ratio reduced to (+ 75% AD) from (+ 100% AD). Maximum AD ratio reduced to (+ 187.5% AD) from (+ 250% AD). Prowl Hunt Maximum AD ratio reduced to (+ 250% AD) from (+ 333% AD). And yeah many underestimate -5 AD... but most of time its not the case. I laugh at this change cause its not enough, same like the -5 ms was useless on Irelia but would be big on a champion like Wukong or Pantheon. You are clearly delusional if you think it'll fix anything. Remind of the ones saying Urgot was just strong due to Tonic Warp runes... guess what ? after nerf, he is still top tier. Just want to sound smart "it seems nothing for plebs, but its actualy a big nerf".
: It's actually big, there I said it where's my cookie?
{{sticker:garen-swing}}
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Fire Blaustoise,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fmbs8YXB,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-01-10T21:00:46.943+0000) > > really disappointed about this change... but at least it buff his clear (its the spell you max in jng) Not at all? you always maxed Q with j4 since 2011, when did it change? > > True... but i doubt it'll be enough for the high elo and competitive. And unless the meta change, i can't see her becoming thing (i can see her if game is slowed). It's still smart, maybe it's not enough but touching that part was necessary > > You will found some saying its actualy big. You will find people saying that Galio got gutted after his last buffs
> [{quoted}](name=D357R0Y3R,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fmbs8YXB,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-01-10T21:07:17.550+0000) > > Not at all? you always maxed Q with j4 since 2011, when did it change? nevermind, my mistake. my memory is flawed cause we start E. > You will find people saying that Galio got gutted after his last buffs i saw some on Reddit {{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}}
: the fact that you let jungle nasus even get a single stack is hilarious. invade him. kill him. its that easy. nasus early is trash and he cant 1v1 any of the meta junglers. all your jungler has to do is invade and counterjungle. its easier to shut down jungle nasus, than lane nasus. jungle nasus doesnt have the protection of a turret.
Just invade, isnt a good advice. You can't always invade (depending on your lanes). The best way to counter Nasus is to... play like a normal jungle : pressures, ganks, controle... In the end the pick is trash in decent elo. I advice you to dodge if you are paired with one. As jungler or laners having a Nasus is all but a bless.
: Here's your problem. You keep letting the game get up to 30 minutes or you're not using your early game advantage against Nasus to keep him down and then continue to keep him down after he falls behind.
Its not even an issue... Nasus isnt good during late.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: Trash nerfs, Trash buffs
> [{quoted}](name=D357R0Y3R,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fmbs8YXB,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-01-10T20:22:51.370+0000) > > https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net/external/4RxEKatM_m3al62sKBHVANCG6KH0WdRaMXPWNozWQh8/https/pbs.twimg.com/media/DwkK9FlXcAMZPb4.jpg%3Alarge > > {{champion:59}} nothing changed, moving on really disappointed about this change... but at least it buff his clear ~~(its the spell you max in jng)~~ > {{champion:63}} nerf to support brand, buff to AP brand alright I will take it. Not too soon. > {{champion:102}} only change that makes sense, buffing the part that makes you pick shyvana over other junglers, good. > True... but i doubt it'll be enough for the high elo and competitive. And unless the meta change, i can't see her becoming thing (i can see her if game is slowed). > > {{champion:6}} hahahahahaha, HAHAHAHAHA You will found some saying its actualy big.
: OP is acting like Leona is struggling or something. Stats don't lie. http://na.op.gg/champion/leona/statistics/support
Your stat take low elo (plat ) and group them to high elo (high diam). And even your link show she's okay at most. Leona don't need any nerf, nor nautilus.
HoR RooneR (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Fire Blaustoise,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=eNgeL1Rb,comment-id=006d0000,timestamp=2019-01-09T18:07:43.789+0000) > > You are blinded by her winrate. She's still too strong. > > > No need to be pro, in high diams low master she is ban worthy. Lol another cry ponny who dont how to play against her LMOA.... Pick against her poppy, jax, tham, shen and she can do nothing. She is not this strong anymore after nerfs she gets just ppl like you who dont how to play....
So you think you know how to play ? an hardstuck gold... okay
: I don't understand, how is Irelia such an urgent balance concern at a 46% win rate that you simply must nerf her yet again a patch before planned changes to her? I wanted to express my frustration with her rework in general. After looking forward to it for nearly 2 years after Sion's update showed me that champion reworks were a thing, Irelia at the time being my favorite top laner, the utter balancing disaster she's proven to be feels like a backstab that has left me so embittered that thinking about her anymore annoys me. She's flatly overdesigned, so good in the hands of pros that she has to be nerfed beyond the reach of ordinary players. When she was being reworked, so much focus was placed on making her fun to play that, as is the apparent norm with high skill champs, she's not fun to play against, hence her still high ban rate. You guys have promised changes to balance that, but we've seen this before with Ryze, Azir, Kalista, and others like them, and my hopes that you'll finally get things right this time are not good.
> [{quoted}](name=Raxistaicho,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=eNgeL1Rb,comment-id=006d,timestamp=2019-01-09T18:00:46.954+0000) > > I don't understand, how is Irelia such an urgent balance concern at a 46% win rate that you simply must nerf her yet again a patch before planned changes to her? You are blinded by her winrate. She's still too strong. > She's flatly overdesigned, so good in the hands of pros that she has to be nerfed beyond the reach of ordinary players. When she was being reworked, so much focus was placed on making her fun to play that, as is the apparent norm with high skill champs, she's not fun to play against, hence her still high ban rate. No need to be pro, in high diams low master she is ban worthy.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 9
Still no plan to address Wukong, the pick is utterly trash in decent MMR, dont even know if the pick is "on the strong side" (let me quote you) in low mmr. Is his wr the only thing you look at ?
Antenora (EUW)
: Jungle Nasus... He'll get 12 stacks from EVERY CAMP. 12 stacks from EVERY SCUTTLE.
I'll honestly dodge as usual, if i have a Nasus in my team. This champ is trash.
: imagine thinking that leona isn't strong ---- loving how half of this post is high quality and informative and the rest of it is "reeeeeee"
Cause you have a low elo pov (gold), but Op have high elo one (GM).
: Voli doesn't need a buff. He needs a VGU
The pick is trash. Ofc he need a buff. And yeah he need VGU.
FFrazien (EUW)
: I don’t understand why is {{champion:58}} getting buffed, he has solid win rates and I wouldn’t say he’s underperforming
He's not buffed for low elo. The more you climb, the less effective he is.
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Fire Blaustoise

Level 12 (EUW)
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