Lovesick (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Frontline Fury,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3RoU4EzJ,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2017-11-16T13:56:01.750+0000) > > He had an indicator before, too. What delay? There's no delay. If he gets to click on you from his ult, you die. Unless he is behind in which case you lose half your health, he dies and his team surrenders. There's no middle ground. His rework is a flop, almost as big as mordekaiser's. And yet you'd probably say that Rengar's previous iteration was even worse lel.
> [{quoted}](name=Lovesick,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3RoU4EzJ,comment-id=0000000000010001,timestamp=2017-11-18T13:36:38.040+0000) > > And yet you'd probably say that Rengar's previous iteration was even worse lel. Rengar's previous iteration was better. He was a fully-fledged champion, he had a large variety of item builds and playstyles. He could be played offtank, as a bruiser or even as a support. The problem is that once people discovered his interaction with crit, it was the strongest build available. While Rengar had the POSSIBILITY to play and be viable with many different item builds, crit rengar ended up being so strong that if you wanted to be competitive, it was the optimal playstyle. And rather than keep his old kit and fix the problem, they decided to rework him into a champion with no variety in gameplay, no variety in item builds - because riot thought the community only wanted crit rengar, they forced him into being crit rengar, removing all other playstyles and viable item builds. And by doing so, they ruined the champion completely. He is no longer fun to play. Not even his OTPs truly enjoy playing him these days - they are all in a constant state of frustration, even when doing well on him. He is not fun to play, but he is the only champion delivering that kind of gameplay. This is why a couple of us old-timers have been arguing for a partial Rengar revert similar to Kog'maw. Fixing the old issues would be extremely simple with today's technology - literally all Riot would have to do is give Rengar's Q the Camille treatment. Sadly, Rengar's playerbase is currently so small he's no longer worth putting resources into. Ironic, considering the reason his playerbase diminished in the first place is because of their massive flop of a rework in the first place. You can compare him to Khazix. Rengar's old kit was capable of going toe-to-toe with Khazix in a skill matchup for the sake of winning "The hunt is on!" - i have many fond memories of honorable duels in the middle of matchmade games agreed on by both teams performed in front of the baron pit. New Rengar has no chance against Kha'zix whatsoever. The only way Rengar can win is if he is fed or if his teammates all focus everything on Khazix while Rengar hangs back out of range.
: Repeatedly pressing Q and autoing with passive takes a lot of skill, especially for your average tank gameplay.
> [{quoted}](name=Cinquino Show,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wjh8B8Ju,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-11-17T21:23:56.642+0000) > > Repeatedly pressing Q and autoing with passive takes a lot of skill, especially for your average tank gameplay. The problem is that he has no tradeoff for either of this. The Q is massively overloaded, doing morbidly high base damage, possessing an extremely strong knockback that doubles as a mini-stun as well as heavily slowing whatever he hits. And it has one of the lowest cooldowns at level 1 of any tank class spells along with an extremely low mana cost for its power. Tl;dr Maokai's Q is extremely overloaded, being a jack of all trades ability with no tradeoffs. Dont even get me started on how his supposed antiCASTER passive has the strongest effect against melee basic attack champions.
: It isn't and he doesn't.
> [{quoted}](name=Glue In Ram Slot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wjh8B8Ju,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-11-17T21:18:29.638+0000) > > It isn't and he doesn't. Please mention one champion that can go even with him at level 1-3.
Kythers (NA)
: How can you say that with an Ornn icon?
> [{quoted}](name=Kythers,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wjh8B8Ju,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-11-17T19:35:35.704+0000) > > How can you say that with an Ornn icon? Because i'd rather use the Ornn icon i earnt from the Ornn missions a while back than one of the generic minion icons. Ornn, Maokai and Cho'gath are also literally the only top laners left in the game that can actually go tank and still exist in a match. But they can do so for all the wrong reasons - not because they are good tanks, but because they straight up out-base damage anything else in top lane. There are literally no champions that can go toe-to-toe with them. All the other top lane tanks (such as Nautilus, Galio, Poppy, Singed, Jarvan IV and Sion) were gutted to avoid them outdamaging everything without actually having to build into it. Meanwhile these three still build full tank and mindlessly spam their spells with no consequences. No need for mana management, no need for positioning and hardly any need for aiming - all you do is smash your face into your keyboard whenever your spells are off cooldown. I liked playing Ornn a lot. But then he got the completely unnecessary %Max HP damage buff and suddenly he takes no brains to play. He was fine on release - you just had to actually learn how to play him to succeed with him.
mack9112 (NA)
: But if you get caught out shouldnt the enemy be rewarded by killing you ?
> [{quoted}](name=mack9112,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JZxMuG3E,comment-id=00120001000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-17T18:00:26.903+0000) > > But if you get caught out shouldnt the enemy be rewarded by killing you ? Of course they should. The problem is when "caught out" means "enemy team is focusing you". If both teams are entering a 5 vs 5 battle, your team should not be forced to give up the fight because 3 out of 5 opponents turned their attention towards the tank. That's exactly what the tank is supposed to be doing - except currently even a full armor malphite is hard-pressed to endure attacks from two AD champions at the same time.
Rioter Comments
Kyndis (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Frontline Fury,realm=EUW,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=Xdsy5mGV,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-11-14T23:50:21.616+0000) > > Almost got my hopes up when i read "Xayah" and "Tentacle" > > Then i realized i dont actually want to see something so degrading about the character > > Then i realized this was in fact a bug report > > Everything worked out in the end. > > ######what a rollercoaster of emotions what.
> [{quoted}](name=Kyndis,realm=NA,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=Xdsy5mGV,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-11-16T22:04:18.828+0000) > > what. yes.
: obligatory fuck yasuo post
We're there again? Hating on Yasuo? What is this, season 5?
: I believe it's about time you stop catering to low elo
Are you for real? The game is being balanced with the middle elos in mind. Plat/Dia level.
: Is league dead?
What? Is this a rhetoric question or what? League is not dead and league is not dying.
B4NX (NA)
: I felt so hot and angry after my games
Its ok OP. I think you're hot too.
Lovesick (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Frontline Fury,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3RoU4EzJ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-11-16T11:44:29.728+0000) > > I think the problem is that while he is only remotely useful when snowballing, he has literally 0 counterplay when he is. A fed Rengar just deletes everything with 0 time to react and then walks off like nothing happened. 0 counterplay? But they added delay to his damage and a massive goddamn indicator lmao.
> [{quoted}](name=Lovesick,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3RoU4EzJ,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-11-16T11:56:45.560+0000) > > 0 counterplay? But they added delay to his damage and a massive goddamn indicator lmao. He had an indicator before, too. What delay? There's no delay. If he gets to click on you from his ult, you die. Unless he is behind in which case you lose half your health, he dies and his team surrenders. There's no middle ground. His rework is a flop, almost as big as mordekaiser's.
: Is Rengar busted? With only 47% win rate - ROFL
I think the problem is that while he is only remotely useful when snowballing, he has literally 0 counterplay when he is. A fed Rengar just deletes everything with 0 time to react and then walks off like nothing happened.
: Get your Worlds music right
Meh, i Zedd - Ignite grew on me. I didnt like it at first, but the more i listen to it these days the more it resonates with me. Legends never die is pretty cool too.
: It's amazing how I gotta work hard to do dmg, then I see ADC's right click for 600 crit.
Yeah its almost as if adcs only build damage items or something
Ebolol (NA)
: What's really the point of Kleptomancy, though?
Sustain. Gold. Pretty much those two. As a bonus the lack of counterplay will tilt the heck out of experienced opponents that knows what it does.
mack9112 (NA)
: Which champions top are you struggling to do well with ?
> [{quoted}](name=mack9112,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JZxMuG3E,comment-id=001200010000,timestamp=2017-11-15T14:01:57.533+0000) > > Which champions top are you struggling to do well with ? https://media.giphy.com/media/sUNqplVFtsctW/giphy.gif It's no longer about what champion you play. Its about what you can do when the opponents consistently outnumber you and Riot has finally removed top lane's ability to 1v2 other players.
: Low rank really? I am a platinum player. It does not mean I am 100% right nor does it mean you are just because you are diamond. You listed support champions as AP mages. Dont know if you are this stupid or just joking. ADC is the favourite . Even if supports got buffed this directly buffs the ADC as well. Why do you think there is a new 3-4 discussion each day about AD being busted?
> [{quoted}](name=OP Garen Support,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JZxMuG3E,comment-id=000000020000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2017-11-15T12:49:48.386+0000) > > Low rank really? I am a platinum player. It does not mean I am 100% right nor does it mean you are just because you are diamond. > > You listed support champions as AP mages. Dont know if you are this stupid or just joking. > > ADC is the favourite . Even if supports got buffed this directly buffs the ADC as well. > > Why do you think there is a new 3-4 discussion each day about AD being busted? Low rank is Diamond 3 and below. Diamond 2 and low master are the middle ranks. high master and challenger are the high ranks. Due to the majority of the playerbase being low ranks they do not realize just how big the impact of the supports are. They think the adcs are the ones that are busted. Thing is, once you see that 8/0 Tristana jump alone into mid lane and get 1-shot by the 0/3 Syndra, or get 1v1'd by the 2/0 Ornn, you'll quickly realize that the supports are the true masterminds behind the "adc meta". It's the huge amount of shields, attack buffs (both damage and attack speed) and large amounts of defensive crowd control that makes them so strong. Tristana is currently the Irelia of bot lane. Vayne has always been the riven of bot lane. Both snowball massively, both deal huge base damages and both have near uncounterable late games. That doesn't necessarily mean they are busted - they are supposed to be strong in the late game, after all. Their supports are the ones letting them reach that "late game" 8 minutes into the match.
Joseraph (NA)
: I couldn't sit through this post, it's way too long, but as a top lane main I think I can guess what you're talking about. Now, I'm only a filthy Silver5 pleb, but here's my advice; Play champions like Trundle, Garen, Irelia, Xin'Zhao or Jax, basically anyone fast or with a reliable dash that can abuse demolish. Win your lane and take first turret and shove to the tier two to get the jungler off the other lanes. Get your power spike item (Trinity Cleaver or Bortk for all of these) then go Tiamat straight into a tank item (Prefereably Thornmail or Visage, but Steraks works too) and commit to either taking turrets via split, or dive onto the adc every fight. Your gold is to generate gold and pressure by taking towers, or to attract 2+ people's aggro while diving the ADC. If you can't win lane, rush a defensive (Preferably thornmail) and try to dive mid and get their first tower with demolish.
> [{quoted}](name=Joseraph,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JZxMuG3E,comment-id=002c,timestamp=2017-11-15T14:44:39.385+0000) > > I couldn't sit through this post, it's way too long, but as a top lane main I think I can guess what you're talking about. > > Now, I'm only a filthy Silver5 pleb, but here's my advice; Play champions like Trundle, Garen, Irelia, Xin'Zhao or Jax, basically anyone fast or with a reliable dash that can abuse demolish. Win your lane and take first turret and shove to the tier two to get the jungler off the other lanes. Get your power spike item (Trinity Cleaver or Bortk for all of these) then go Tiamat straight into a tank item (Prefereably Thornmail or Visage, but Steraks works too) and commit to either taking turrets via split, or dive onto the adc every fight. Your gold is to generate gold and pressure by taking towers, or to attract 2+ people's aggro while diving the ADC. If you can't win lane, rush a defensive (Preferably thornmail) and try to dive mid and get their first tower with demolish. I was a Xin Zhao main. I climbed to Diamond V with him before he was reworked, then i switched to Ornn and Urgot until they got buffed. Thing is, i try to avoid "meta" champions because if you play a champion considered popular you'll get called out on being a meta slave every single time you do well. If i made a smurf account i could still climb to Diamond playing Xin Zhao top exclusively in less than a month. The thing is, once you get out of the lower ranks (plat and below) people actually know how to deal with cheesy triforce bruisers. They know what items to build, what champions to pick and more important how to play them. As an example, Xin Zhao usually cant actually build triforce in diamond. You have to go black cleaver if you want to do even a single point of damage without getting blown up by everything. Split pushing is also excessively hard due to opponent map awareness and their habit of collapsing on you in large numbers. If you are going even with your lane opponent you can't afford to split push as your 0/8 bot lane wont be able to defend without you.
: What are you talking about ? did you try playing Fiora ? or Vayne or an adc in top ?
> [{quoted}](name=Hikari Sakata,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JZxMuG3E,comment-id=002e,timestamp=2017-11-15T16:40:25.092+0000) > > What are you talking about ? did you try playing Fiora ? or Vayne or an adc in top ? "top lane main" > adc in top top lane in 2k18 lul the entire point of this post is to point how how horribly weak "original" top laners are - tanks, bruisers, slayers, etc. The fact you even suggest playing a marksman top instead of a tank proves just how warped the meta and the balancing has become.
: I mean... not really for me. I'm playing yasuo top and I end up as the best player on my team score wise consistently. Although other lanes are losing, I manage to not let tank tops shut me down and go for frequent ganks on losing lanes in order to help my teammates. I still think top lane is vital to the team and has a visible impact on the game.
> [{quoted}](name=ImCaptainUseless,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JZxMuG3E,comment-id=002f,timestamp=2017-11-15T17:30:57.470+0000) > > I mean... not really for me. I'm playing yasuo top and I end up as the best player on my team score wise consistently. Although other lanes are losing, I manage to not let tank tops shut me down and go for frequent ganks on losing lanes in order to help my teammates. I still think top lane is vital to the team and has a visible impact on the game. I often have the best score on my team as a top laner, but what does that even matter if i still consistently lose games? I'd rather go 0/8 if it meant i'd actually win for once. A good score wont necessarily help you win.
: You are right there is no way to have a proper discussion with someone who never thinks for himself and only demands statistical proof of the top 0,000001 % players. Ever since Riot started favoring AD champions the game is becoming worse each day. This is not my opinion it is a fact that many of us share. You hate mages thats your choice at least dont try to lie by hiding behind statistics made for pro players. Us noobs are the 99 %.
> [{quoted}](name=OP Garen Support,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JZxMuG3E,comment-id=0000000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-15T00:22:49.703+0000) > > You are right there is no way to have a proper discussion with someone who never thinks for himself and only demands statistical proof of the top 0,000001 % players. > Ever since Riot started favoring AD champions the game is becoming worse each day. This is not my opinion it is a fact that many of us share. You hate mages thats your choice at least dont try to lie by hiding behind statistics made for pro players. Us noobs are the 99 %. Favoring AD champions? That is a common low rank misconception - AD champions are just as strong as they have always been. You wanna know why marksmen have been going through the roof? Its because AD champions havent been getting stronger - AP champions have. {{champion:40}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:16}} {{champion:497}} {{champion:44}} {{champion:25}} {{champion:267}} {{champion:37}} Mage supports were finally given proper items and is at last, after all these years, considered "real champions" like every other class and role. And as the supports became just as strong as all other champions, it caused a gigantic upset in a meta that for years had been shaped around supports being near-useless ward bots barely worth killing. Suddenly supports have just as much impact on the game as every other role - which means their abilities balanced around being weaker than everybody else were suddenly stronger than everybody else. So no, AD champions are not being favoured. Supports are.
: This problem has come from what I've been screaming to Riot and the community about for years, which nobody wanted to listen. So I'll say it again. Bruisers have no place in moba's. They were made by design to be imbalanced and overpowered, but with high price items to be effective. Which is.. ludicrously stupid. The past seasons if you didn't put the majority of your focus on top lane, in most cases you'd lose, because once that top lane left, he'd steam roll everyone else without question, only time this didn't happen is if the enemy team steam rolled their lanes early and could fight 1v3 and win, but if that top lane won, they wont even be able to go 1v3 without getting thrashed. This was seriously unhealhty, unfun, and just a disgusting mess for everyone except top laners. Then they attempted to shift to duelers. and introduced champs liek Fiora who are designed to have virtually no flaws, or drawbacks that really matter or hurt her, with so many built in steroids that again if she wins her lane, GG. Almost nothing you can do to win again. Again, seriously unhealthy, unfun, and disgusting mess for everyone except top laners. So now you have 2 classes of champs that have no place in a game that is supposed to be"team" based. Now finally Riot, and the rest of the community are beginning to see what I've been saying since Season 2.
> [{quoted}](name=xMistressAthenax,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JZxMuG3E,comment-id=0027,timestamp=2017-11-15T07:04:31.630+0000) > > This problem has come from what I&#x27;ve been screaming to Riot and the community about for years, which nobody wanted to listen. So I&#x27;ll say it again. > > Bruisers have no place in moba&#x27;s. > > They were made by design to be imbalanced and overpowered, but with high price items to be effective. Which is.. ludicrously stupid. > > The past seasons if you didn&#x27;t put the majority of your focus on top lane, in most cases you&#x27;d lose, because once that top lane left, he&#x27;d steam roll everyone else without question, only time this didn&#x27;t happen is if the enemy team steam rolled their lanes early and could fight 1v3 and win, but if that top lane won, they wont even be able to go 1v3 without getting thrashed. > > This was seriously unhealhty, unfun, and just a disgusting mess for everyone except top laners. > > Then they attempted to shift to duelers. and introduced champs liek Fiora who are designed to have virtually no flaws, or drawbacks that really matter or hurt her, with so many built in steroids that again if she wins her lane, GG. Almost nothing you can do to win again. > > Again, seriously unhealthy, unfun, and disgusting mess for everyone except top laners. > > So now you have 2 classes of champs that have no place in a game that is supposed to be&quot;team&quot; based. > > Now finally Riot, and the rest of the community are beginning to see what I&#x27;ve been saying since Season 2. Of course bruisers have a place in the game. These are duelists, split pushers. Not only is it a unique strategic playstyle, it fills a distinct niché for certain players. Not all of us want to be the girl with the sniper rifle, the kid with the wand or the man with the giant shield - some of us want to be something in between. That's where the bruisers come in. Every single action game with classes has featured hybrids like these. Why wouldn't the biggest game genre in the world do as well? Some of the bruisers can also be considered, by extension, melee carries - similar to the marksmen, but in melee form. Riot has aptly renamed these "slayers" some time ago - sadly these champions naturally benefit from items designed for tanks and juggernauts, which makes them quite a lot tankier than they were supposed to be. But you know what? The worst offender in this case ( {{champion:39}} ) is up for a complete rework soon. https://i.gyazo.com/f2b634cc553367332d81d1425e07b631.png {{champion:114}} is ineffective when building defensive items, and "tanksassins" like {{champion:164}} and {{champion:11}} need to be quite a bit ahead to actually exploit their temporarily high defenses - bruisers' main weakness has historically been lockdown. This post was originally about the weakness of not only top lane as a whole, but most notably tanks. League of Legends has a sort of extended circle of life system for its classes. Bruisers (Vanguards {{champion:516}} , Slayers {{champion:114}} , Juggernauts {{champion:122}} ) < Assassins (Divers {{champion:102}} , Burst mages {{champion:7}} , Slayers {{champion:238}} ) < Marksmen (Artillery casters {{champion:110}} , Utility marksmen {{champion:22}} , Crit carries {{champion:67}} ) < Tanks (Wardens {{champion:89}} , Vanguards {{champion:111}} , Juggernauts {{champion:86}} ) < Bruisers. Utility {{champion:43}} and control {{champion:143}} mages are countered by marksmen, but do not fit into the spectrum due to countering all the other classes by filling in the weaknesses of their allies. The thing that sets league of legends apart from most other mobas is the extreme playstyle flexibility granted through item builds and rune setups. Take {{champion:67}}, for example - she is BOTH a marksman AND a slayer. Or within the same class, {{champion:42}}, whom also classifies as both a burst mage and an artillery mage while still being a marksman. Story time: Bruisers are infamous for being "OP" due to their extreme item build flexibility - {{item:3078}} wielders are most reknowned for this trait. These champions can build nearly every single item in the game and still function effectively. But they always had counterplay, to some degree. While your example, {{champion:114}}, is one of the champions that have struggled the most with balance issues, Riot has been sure to knock her down a peg every time she went too far. She recently got a buff because they went too far - due to her nature as a slayer, the balance between overbearing and useless is as thin as a straw of hair. And as we have time and time again seen from champions like {{champion:81}}, {{champion:126}}, {{champion:105}} and {{champion:51}}, even the smallest change to an item can have completely unpredictable effects on a champion's performance. Phenomenons like assassins with high AD scalings will suddenly be stacking {{item:3071}} due to a new mastery - a completely unintended interaction that was last seen in Season 2, that caused the creation of the unique passives we know today. Believe it or not, before the end of Season 2 every single item in the game could be stacked as many times as you had slots - which caused quite ridiculous results for a while before % HP damage was added to the game. You'd see champions build multiple {{item:3083}} as well as an item called Force of Nature that would grant them health regen above the 200s - and it was not out of combat-exclusive. {{champion:75}}, {{champion:36}} and {{champion:32}} were infamous for stacking {{item:3083}}. But that's besides the point. Bruisers do have a place in the game, and their primary counter is lockdown - stuns, roots and slows. The class creates a common ground between assassins and tanks, and suffers from the weaknesses of both their parent classes - namely shields, heals, cc and crit damage. If you fail to lock them down and they do manage to reach you, they deserve to be able to deliver their damage. After all, marksmen are allowed to do this from up to half a lane away. Granted, newer champions may have a bit too easy of a time getting on top of their targets - a result of supports gaining strength through support items. Riot has made the mistake of running with the philosophy "lets make counters for our counters", a cycle that will never end. As such newer champions can only get more and more ridiculous in their capabilities to keep supplying the game with unique gameplay that does not overlap with pre-existing playstyles. And while slayers like {{champion:114}} can be extremely overbearing without a proper counter present, keep in mind that a 2 / 0 {{champion:18}} can often 1v3 players on the enemy team with little to no counterplay, if given the same favourable matchup. Slayers like {{champion:114}} struggle against the same class of champions as marksmen do - assassins. {{champion:11}} {{champion:114}} gets completely demolished by high attack speed champions - aka slayer/marksman hybrids such as {{champion:11}}, {{champion:23}}, {{champion:157}} or slayer/assassin hybrids like {{champion:92}} and {{champion:164}}. She also gets completely dumpstered by vanguards. {{champion:516}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:33}} and battlemages {{champion:3}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:50}}.
iSpencer (NA)
: Why would you be upset about your top laner losing lane when you play other roles? According to you it doesn't matter which top laner wins the lane because they won't impact the game much anyway. If you're finding that enemy top laners are able to impact the game then maybe you should take a look at how they're doing it. Are they teleporting well and winning bot lane for bot? Are they manipulating waves well and going 3 levels up on the opponent they beat? Are they getting pinks and wards down in your jungle and ganking your squishy assassin jungler as he tries to do red with 1/3 hp? I'm a support main and I can tell you that it is easier to climb playing other roles (jg and mid I'm looking at you) if you're only slightly better than your counterpart, as long as you are better you will climb slowly. Even if you aren't 1v5ing the enemy team you are still contributing what your team needs to win.
> [{quoted}](name=iSpencer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JZxMuG3E,comment-id=0023,timestamp=2017-11-15T04:38:43.036+0000) > > Why would you be upset about your top laner losing lane when you play other roles? According to you it doesn&#x27;t matter which top laner wins the lane because they won&#x27;t impact the game much anyway. > > If you&#x27;re finding that enemy top laners are able to impact the game then maybe you should take a look at how they&#x27;re doing it. Are they teleporting well and winning bot lane for bot? Are they manipulating waves well and going 3 levels up on the opponent they beat? Are they getting pinks and wards down in your jungle and ganking your squishy assassin jungler as he tries to do red with 1/3 hp? > > I&#x27;m a support main and I can tell you that it is easier to climb playing other roles (jg and mid I&#x27;m looking at you) if you&#x27;re only slightly better than your counterpart, as long as you are better you will climb slowly. Even if you aren&#x27;t 1v5ing the enemy team you are still contributing what your team needs to win. Pretty words in theory, but in practice playing top lane means relying 100% on RNG to give you an even remote chance at playing the game past the laning phase. Either your team gets dumpstered and you have to accept defeat without being able to do anything to influence it, or you play on the back foot for 30 minutes for a small chance at a comeback. The problem is that even if i go 2/0 top, it's not enough to let me influence other lanes or do something such as 1v2 the enemy bot lane / mid jungle duo - i'm usually hard pressed to just defend my tower against the enemy jungler, who is pushing my lane every time i recall to base. Meanwhile, if i am jungling and my top laner goes 0/7 to the enemy Riven, that's another matter entirely. As jungle is not my main role, i am stuck playing champions similar to the ones i play in top lane (or perhaps even top laners brought into the jungle, in the cases of {{champion:516}} and {{champion:14}}.) and before the preseason i actually had quite a bit of success with these champions. But because of this i am not capable of competing at diamond level with effective super early game junglers. I often need to do a partial clear (4-5 monster camps) before i can begin ganking lanes, which means if my top laner is a weak player they'll have died two times by the time i obtain my double buffs. I am not good enough to carry games on my own in the jungle role. And as it is, even when i win with 50+ cs over my lane opponent i can no longer carry as a top laner either.
Rioter Comments
ChuShoe (NA)
: I just think it's so funny that your name is **Frontline Fury** It perfectly describes what top-lane can't do anymore unless they're hypertanks that have extremely high armor.
> [{quoted}](name=ChuShoe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JZxMuG3E,comment-id=0021,timestamp=2017-11-15T02:08:40.117+0000) > > I just think it&#x27;s so funny that your name is **Frontline Fury** > It perfectly describes what top-lane can&#x27;t do anymore unless they&#x27;re hypertanks that have extremely high armor. I appreciate the recognition. I wish i could still live up to my name...
: As a Darius main I feel the pain of getting camped and getting literally no ganks.
> [{quoted}](name=Kinnikuko,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JZxMuG3E,comment-id=001c,timestamp=2017-11-14T22:05:46.668+0000) > > As a Darius main I feel the pain of getting camped and getting literally no ganks. In my case it actually doesnt matter what champion i play. I get babysat regardless - mainly because i could even beat the majority of my lane opponents into the ground with something like {{champion:44}} top.
: I actually lost a game against shen, he pretty much carried his team~~. But then again its purely based on shen being stupidly op <.>~~ But I do get what you mean, as a mid lane main my impact can occasionally make me hate myself
> [{quoted}](name=Témptress,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JZxMuG3E,comment-id=001b,timestamp=2017-11-14T21:40:22.467+0000) > > I actually lost a game against shen, he pretty much carried his team~~. But then again its purely based on shen being stupidly op &lt;.&gt;~~ > But I do get what you mean, as a mid lane main my impact can occasionally make me hate myself Shen is one of the few tanks that are still "viable" - because he features, as mentioned other places in the most and comment chain, several extremely powerful steroids featuring free stats. He gains massive amounts of free attack speed, free bonus magic damage and a low cooldown shield on himself. The only tanks that are capable of transitioning effectively into the mid-late game are the ones that have extremely high base stats, such as {{champion:98}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:516}} {{champion:6}}. Only champions with high enough base damages to deal damage despite building full tank can be effective tanks these days. The main reason older tanks cannot transition is that they were all nerfed around the OLD sunfire cape, because it was providing them with so much free damage. Then sunfire cape's pvp damage was (rightfully) gutted, but the tanks were not given compensation buffs.
: another top/adc main here. the only time i feel i do something impactful in the game is when i play a brain dead champ like {{champion:86}} or {{champion:17}} , if i try to play my favorite champs like{{champion:122}} i can hold onto lane but lose later cause of the enemy is ranged or ..... or .... just nothing i cant catch them half of the time and the other its 1v2 cause of constant ganks
> [{quoted}](name=masterdomlo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JZxMuG3E,comment-id=001a,timestamp=2017-11-14T21:31:43.138+0000) > > another top/adc main here. > the only time i feel i do something impactful in the game is when i play a brain dead champ like {{champion:86}} or {{champion:17}} , if i try to play my favorite champs like{{champion:122}} i can hold onto lane but lose later cause of the enemy is ranged or ..... or .... just nothing i cant catch them half of the time and the other its 1v2 cause of constant ganks Pretty much. Your champion needs extremely high base stats to be even remotely useful as a tank. If you do not have multiple stat seroids (you need at least 2 steroids such as hybrid damage, attack speed, increased attack range, stuns, heals, slows or similar) you will not be able to transition into the midgame.
: this reeks of someone who probably wants darius buffs but everything you said is true. upvoted and approved by a top lane main
> [{quoted}](name=THE RlVER KlNG,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JZxMuG3E,comment-id=001d,timestamp=2017-11-14T22:49:27.620+0000) > > this reeks of someone who probably wants darius buffs > > but everything you said is true. upvoted and approved by a top lane main Darius buffs? Gods, no. While i do recognize Darius is super weak atm, i dont WANT him back on the top (heh) of the food chain. He's such an extremely unfun champion to play against. Good riddance i say.
Kyndis (NA)
: Xayah feather bug with Illaoi tentacles
Almost got my hopes up when i read "Xayah" and "Tentacle" Then i realized i dont actually want to see something so degrading about the character Then i realized this was in fact a bug report Everything worked out in the end. ######what a rollercoaster of emotions
mack9112 (NA)
: I don't get people I really don't. Top has always been the lone soldier lane. With the new runes and the ghost poro skill I really feel ganks are a thing of the past for me when I go top. Personally I okay champs like urgot , Cho or galio top and see alotta success. Mid I play velkoz , veigar , azir and never have problems winning lane. Jungle Zac sej and rek and I always contribute. People get mad that jungle is always ganking but isn't that the role of the jungler ? You gotta be prepared. Your lanes getting stomped doesn't that simply mean there laner was better than your laner. I hate people who lose a game and come on here to rant about how terrible they think the game state is. Take some accountability and recognize maybe you aren't playing as good as you could and get better. This whole community needs a hard reset.
> [{quoted}](name=mack9112,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JZxMuG3E,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2017-11-14T17:25:13.835+0000) > > I don&#x27;t get people I really don&#x27;t. Top has always been the lone soldier lane. With the new runes and the ghost poro skill I really feel ganks are a thing of the past for me when I go top. Personally I okay champs like urgot , Cho or galio top and see alotta success. Mid I play velkoz , veigar , azir and never have problems winning lane. Jungle Zac sej and rek and I always contribute. People get mad that jungle is always ganking but isn&#x27;t that the role of the jungler ? You gotta be prepared. Your lanes getting stomped doesn&#x27;t that simply mean there laner was better than your laner. I hate people who lose a game and come on here to rant about how terrible they think the game state is. Take some accountability and recognize maybe you aren&#x27;t playing as good as you could and get better. This whole community needs a hard reset. Yes, if you play champions with insane base stats like urgot, chogath,galio or maokai then you are somewhat ok top. If you want to play any of the other 130 champions in the game, however....
ntbcool (NA)
: I think its kinda dumb to make a rant about the meta right after riot changed a large portions of the game. Balance is trash, people have no clue how to play around the new stuff, and everyone is playing the game with a more lacks play style. All of this is normal and happens a lot during preseason, and will get much better as time goes on. It' s just to soon to make such general claims rn tbh.
> [{quoted}](name=ntbcool,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JZxMuG3E,comment-id=0019,timestamp=2017-11-14T20:31:38.051+0000) > > I think its kinda dumb to make a rant about the meta right after riot changed a large portions of the game. Balance is trash, people have no clue how to play around the new stuff, and everyone is playing the game with a more lacks play style. All of this is normal and happens a lot during preseason, and will get much better as time goes on. It&#x27; s just to soon to make such general claims rn tbh. But how will Riot know that top lane is suffering more than other roles if nobody tells them? If nobody ever complained about lack of balance, nobody would know about the problem. The way i see it the earlier i submit my cry for help the higher likelihood of other players like me seeing my message and spreading the word, bringing the information to playtesters and the balance team faster so they can look into it before they begin balancing the rest of the game around it.
: Inspirational Champion Quotes
I remember one from Zed that could be interpreted as critique towards certain aspects of religion, laws and society. «Tradition is the corpse of wisdom». Tradition is the habit of keeping up with outdated practices that once upon a time was sensible, such as in the middle ages not eating meat from pigs as they carried a lot of diseases and the poor would often eat them undercooked out of desperation. Today we have the means to turn the meat completely safe - yet multiple religions insist on outlawing the meat, out of tradition. The corpse of ancient wisdom, now rotted, out of place and malformed.
: > [{quoted}](name=Frontline Fury,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JZxMuG3E,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-11-14T05:58:16.986+0000) > > It&#x27;s as if the ranks below diamond are still playing league of legends in season 5. > > But at the very least, in low (and in higher, i presume) diamond the games are often decided before 10:00. Sounds like us low ranks are having more fun than the top ranks. ^-^
> [{quoted}](name=It Hertz When IP,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JZxMuG3E,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-11-14T13:10:22.363+0000) > > Sounds like us low ranks are having more fun than the top ranks. ^-^ You are. Enjoy it while it lasts...
: How do you increase your normals mmr?
You want to raise it? I want to drop it. Ranked games are literally easier to win than normal games because in ranked i can't get matched against master tier players and above. There is no such restriction in normal games.
: What playing Lethal Tempo Shyvana feels like
{{champion:77}} Welcome to the club {{champion:48}} Club? {{champion:53}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:254}} Go away!
: As a top laner main. These are the three things you need to do to win. Farm Win Lane (Getting kills and enemy tower) Roam If you do all 3 in that order then you should win almost all your games. Unless your whole team is doing bad or just not wanting to win. You can always win if you have at least 1 person who knows what hes doing and you do all 3 steps i told you. Edit: Lul @ all the low elo downvoting
> [{quoted}](name=Jayce Top Lane,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JZxMuG3E,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-11-14T05:25:57.579+0000) > > As a top laner main. These are the three things you need to do to win. > > Farm > Win Lane (Getting kills and enemy tower) > Roam > > If you do all 3 in that order then you should win almost all your games. Unless your whole team is doing bad or just not wanting to win. You can always win if you have at least 1 person who knows what hes doing and you do all 3 steps i told you. Note that: most of the games where i do win lane, my teammates lose theirs. This is because if the enemy jungler does not pressure me i usually beat my lane opponent into the dust - but this also means the enemy jungler is busy elsewhere on the map, such as in bot lane or mid lane. The problem in my recent matches since preseason begun is that even when the enemy jungler is babysitting my lane and i fall behind as a result, my other lanes will STILL lose - even with help from my own jungler. That means every single lane falls behind, despite the enemy jungler spending all their time in top lane. That sort of makes it feel hopeless. You can't really do any risky plays against a Riven/Xin Zhao duo, so the game is literally lost in early laning phase if your jungler dies or your bot laners lose lane.
: As a top laner main. These are the three things you need to do to win. Farm Win Lane (Getting kills and enemy tower) Roam If you do all 3 in that order then you should win almost all your games. Unless your whole team is doing bad or just not wanting to win. You can always win if you have at least 1 person who knows what hes doing and you do all 3 steps i told you. Edit: Lul @ all the low elo downvoting
> [{quoted}](name=Jayce Top Lane,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JZxMuG3E,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-11-14T05:25:57.579+0000) > > As a top laner main. These are the three things you need to do to win. > > Farm > Win Lane (Getting kills and enemy tower) > Roam > > If you do all 3 in that order then you should win almost all your games. Unless your whole team is doing bad or just not wanting to win. You can always win if you have at least 1 person who knows what hes doing and you do all 3 steps i told you. https://i.gyazo.com/fc4fe5487cb3f9a92f24594d480775c4.png That is kind of the problem. In the current meta you need to roam, win lane and then farm. Seriously. Both top laners were level 4 when bot lane's tower fell. I was jungling this game, so i could actually impact the rest of the map - but the top laners had no agency whatsoever. They just traded lanes as the bot laners switched to top lane, and then they kept farming. At the moment, bot lane is decided long before top laners have had time to even back once. So you either do a super early teleport to bot lane and try to change what's happening down there (thereby sacrificing your own lane and falling really far behind in both levels and gold) or you simply farm and let the bot laners decide how the next 30 minutes of the match is going to pan out. Of course, this is different in the lower ranks. On my smurf account (that is currently Platinum 3) the games are MUCH slower paced, and snowballing top laners can often 1v2 or even 1v3 opponents. It's as if the ranks below diamond are still playing league of legends in season 5. But at the very least, in low (and in higher, i presume) diamond the games are often decided before 10:00. Top laners have no impact whatsoever unless they play supports or hyper assassins like {{champion:84}}.
Anonagon (NA)
: -> he complains about tanks being weak what's his name /g-b/?
> [{quoted}](name=Anonagon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6MLRFzxU,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-11-14T05:05:42.633+0000) > > -&gt; he complains about tanks being weak > > what&#x27;s his name /g-b/? That's the whole point. I am no longer capable of living up to my name, no matter who, how or where i play. I've tried everything i can think of - nothing works. Everything bursts me. There's no such thing as a "front line" - there's just "throw cc whenever its off cooldown, whoever gets cced dies".
: Good thing PtA is garbage lmao
> [{quoted}](name=Face The Win,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6MLRFzxU,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-11-14T04:37:55.468+0000) > > Good thing PtA is garbage lmao Yeah, good thing it's being picked on literally every basic attacking champion in the game at Diamond 4+ -. The mastery has little impact on squishies - but on tanks it is literally the difference between life and death, victory and defeat. A 12% damage increase is brutal against burst mages and marksmen building hybrid damage items like {{item:3087}} and {{item:3124}}. They already have items like {{item:3036}}, {{item:3153}}, {{item:3151}} and {{item:3135}} as essential components of their item builds. I know the community wanted the tank meta gone, but i feel this is going way, way overboard... I've literally had more success playing supports in top lane than tanks.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Overwatch is a joke. You can now be banned for muting the toxic players on your team.
I guess refusing to communicate with toxic players is considered toxic behaviour. :^) Welcome back to league.
PrideSP (NA)
: The runes doesn't make sense
Some runes give you bonus damage while you are near full health, or while in the river. That’s all i can think of.
: give us back old runes and masteries
Sorry, they’re gone for good. These changes have been forewarned several months ago. They are here to stay, league is never going back to what it was. All you can really do is try to learn how the new system works, and practice in it.
Rainfall (EUNE)
: Is It Time For League Of Legends To Retire From E-Sports?
Even if your personal opinion applied to everyone, the E-sports scene is Riot’s main source of income. They wouldn’t survive a shutdown.
VanaQuish (EUNE)
: You do know that aery has cd, which is when it comes back to you, right? Hell if you want repetitive bonus dmg, comet is far better. Hell you can reduce it alot since your q is single target.
> [{quoted}](name=VanaQuish,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GjGZ4h5F,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-12T07:18:55.220+0000) > > You do know that aery has cd, which is when it comes back to you, right? Hell if you want repetitive bonus dmg, comet is far better. Hell you can reduce it alot since your q is single target. 1: Comet's cooldown is MONSTROUSLY much longer than Aery. You will be able to proc Aery roughly once every 4-5 seconds while comet features a 20 sec cooldown, which is reduced by a couple seconds every time you use your Q. In effect. Aery also procs on basic attacks, by the way. While comet's cooldown gets lower at level 18, at that point keystones barely matter anymore - not to mention vlad has no cc to help him land the comet.
VanaQuish (EUNE)
: summon aery+vlad HAHAHAHA
> [{quoted}](name=VanaQuish,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GjGZ4h5F,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-11-11T17:14:50.282+0000) > > summon aery+vlad > > HAHAHAHA Yes. Massive, repetitive bonus damage on a very short cooldown.
: AP damage extremely underwhelming as a Vlad main?
Perhaps you have to adapt your item builds. Personally i would recommend sorcery with summon aery, the ultimate hat, celerity/ transcendence and scorch with domination featuring taste of blood and ravenous hunter. Magic damage is actually UP across the board as players do not get as much magic resist as they used to before the runes were scrapped.
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Frontline Fury

Level 36 (EUW)
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