Oleandervine
(NA)
GelsominoKiller
(EUW)
Sett is 3/4 human, therefore an human appearence is appropriate. That said, more animalistic traits could have reinforced his origins. Him having some fur on his chest, while making his fur gilet an actual mane could have done all the difference in the world.
Overall I am not displeased with his champion design, with the biggest frustration point to me being his hairstyle. As a fighter, you don't want hair on your eyes; there is no justification for that.
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furret walcc
(NA)
I guess complaints are unavoidable.
You engage at lv3 with Lunar Rush expecting the same damage output Diana was able to do when Lunar Rush was her ultimate.
I tell you: ofc the damage is not there. Your lvl6 engage kill potential was your reward for having survived the laining phase as a melee, and you were committing your ultimate ability.
Now that her laining isn't a struggle anymore she must give something in return. It's only fair.
I am sure that with enough practice you can adapt. Surely it's much more proficient than crying outrage and "I will never play Diana again".
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Jaguar Påw
(NA)
GelsominoKiller
(EUW)
I agree and disagree.
Sett identity is that of a pit fighter, and you'd expect him to be a lot more rugged and blunt, like a Darius or a Braum. Instead he looks pretty and juvenile. Also, him being a grown up momma boi is quite unique!
That said, his attitude **is** trite, and his animalistic traits are minimal (this is justifiable because he's only half vastaya) but I don't mind.
What you have me on board about is that his clothing and hairstyle are at odds with his brawling and fighting spirit. You could argue that he runs the business and doesn't fight anymore, but it would like having an armorless garen pretending to be a knight anyway.
|
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KoKoboto
(NA)
GelsominoKiller
(EUW)
Ivern is quite a problematic champion.
He suffered a stream of harsh nerfs due to a short-lived dominance on proplay, and never regained basic functionality on many of his spells. For example, Daisy has an obscene CD and the durability of wet paper bag, and the brush CD is equally absurd. He was neutered and left to rot.
Ivern is also a most peculiar champion because of his unique jungle playstyle: he needs stability and viability in order to attract a playerbase. In other words "I won't invest a lot of time and resources in learning unique clearing/invading paths for a jungle enchanter if he's trash on top of being an unrewarding champion".
Playing Ivern also changes radically not only whenever Riot messes with his passive, but also with seasonal jungle changes. This only further exacerbates his unavailability as a common, immediate pick.
|
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Falrein
(EUW)
In my opinion the most glaring flaw in Kayle's character is her appearance.
I just can't get over the armored leggings. Not that I dislike fit women in tight dresses, but in this case this attractiveness is extremely detrimental to everything Kayle is supposed to embody.
Nothing speaks "ironclad justice from above" like a good old cameltoe.
I guess a winged figure in an heavy, scintillating armor and an inflexible sentence coming out of a faceless helm is fine in order to deliver the concept, but doesn't sell enough skins...
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Lighten
(NA)
The rewards are super mega bad, and we're not even getting them.
Us TT players were a meme and died as a meme. In the afterlife? A meme
|
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Pandemic Punch
(NA)
GelsominoKiller
(EUW)
I guess someone didn't manage to git gud enough to beat orphan of kos
|
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Lady Faceless
(EUW)
Good catch dude!
|
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we havent met
(NA)
GelsominoKiller
(EUW)
Well, release Mordekaiser was broken and reached similar stats, but was quickly nerfed.
Numbers were enough to put him in line. Will they suffice for Senna, too?
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WTBeGirl100EUhr
(EUW)
GelsominoKiller
(EUW)
I can confirm, it's just progress.
Don't know why this post has so many downvotes though
|
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Bianca Colt
(EUW)
GelsominoKiller
(EUW)
Of course! Senna will never surpass Soraka Heal Per Second, and given what Soraka sacrifices for it, nobody ever should.
But the heal per single cast of Senna and Soraka, accounting for Athene (Soraka will never stack it as safely and fast as Senna), is not that far . Soraka heals more still, but the point is that this albeit respectable difference isn't enough to justify giving up... the whole rest of Senna kit.
Senna has much, much more going for her compared to Soraka, which is very specialized and has glaring weakness and risks to take (good design). So, is it really an argument to pick her over Senna?
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Bianca Colt
(EUW)
GelsominoKiller
(EUW)
I feel like the average Senna players undervalue Athene.
Given how easily and safely Senna can deal respectable chuncks of damage, that item is fully stacked whenever Q is used, and that's +250hp per healing.
I just witnessed my brother playing a decently fed (2/1/7) Senna that had her ADC backing at 20% hp due to an assassin aggression. I said to him "heal the ADC". He was skeptical, but trusted me. The ADC was back at 75% hp, he canceled the back in disbelief and typed "wtf" in chat.
Don't tell me that's too far from what THE specialized healer Soraka can do.
|
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Mártir
(EUW)
I empathize with you, but at the same time I must agree that she's not exactly the champion I want to see in game. And no, I don't mean annoying and frustrating, I mean unfair and not balanceable.
I've played with Ezreal+Yuumi when she was strong, and I don't wish to repeat the experience.
|
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3ternalkarma
(NA)
Did I deny it anywhere in my post? xD
Riot learned through the years that permaslow is a strong mechanic that must be carefully implemented. This lesson is apparently disregarded with the new design team, that puts it on Aphelios without much thought. That's my point.
Ashe was made unviable for a lot of time because of her permaslow, and she was allowed to be strong only with her rework, that revolved around implementing a permaslow mechanic without breaking the power budget and creating weakness for Ashe that her opponents could exploit. If you take a look at Ashe's kit, it completely revolves around the permaslow.
|
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KFCeytron
(NA)
Does it matter, though? He's going to have that weapon sometimes.
Will the gameplay he creates in that moment be fair and balanceable? I don't have an immediate answer for that, not yet.
Let me exaggerate the concept with an example: champion X has a passive that says that your AA have a 1% chance of instakilling any enemy. You could argue that he's balanced for any other external reasons, and that 1% is a very small chance. But in the moment you take a trade with champion X and die randomly, was it good and fair gameplay?
|
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boricCentaur1
(NA)
I'm going to pretend that you didn't lash out pointless personal attacks. I don't really care.
You also didn't understand anything about my post. Not even the first sentence about it not being an Aphelios complaint.
Of course Ashe permaslow is better. She is balanced around having it. She was reworked around having it working in an healthy way for the game.
ASHE IS HER PERMASLOW.
And don't pretend it hasn't been a point of concern in the past. Ashe was made unviable for a lot of time because of it.
Honestly, half time through my response I stopped caring, so I won't comment on your questionable understanding of the concept of power budget or that part of "ranged permaslow is ok, but not on immobiles melees"...
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| Rioter Comments | new Comments | Views | |||
Fuhrer Usagi
(NA)
Man, I fucking hope you're right and consistent damage nerfs will suffice.
Because I think that Aphelios weapon combos are so cool! They remind me of some bullet hell spaceships game where combining different quirks for your lasers creates amazing situations.
But for as much as I love his kit I strongly doubt that cutting numbers will do anything. I hoped so with Qiyana, hope so with Senna and I will hope so with Aphelios.
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Linna Excel
(NA)
Genuinely forgot her. Added her back, but I am unsure where she belongs.
|
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Johnny El Rojo
(EUW)
GelsominoKiller
(EUW)
Demacia is isolationist in terms of foreign politics but welcomes people of all races.
As a matter of fact, Demacia was founded as a safe spot for all the refugees/survivors of the rune wars. Since the beginning Demacia was a mix of all races, and since the beginning the prejudice towards magic was there.
It's no wonder that race wouldn't have any meaning for a Demacian, but all Demaciana despise magic.
|
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ChickenWangss
(NA)
GelsominoKiller
(EUW)
Mordekaiser is simply very strong right now because of new conqueror synergy. This demands his opponents to build grievous wounds, treating him as a Mundo or a Vlad, and most people haven't caught up with that yet.
He's surely overpowered at the moment, but a rune is at fault. Changing his numbers will solve the problem but tie Morde's viability to conqueror state.
About the kit, the frustrating points are the lack of counterplay when ulted or permaslowed by Rylai, and that's it.
|
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Ebonmaw Dragon
(NA)
For Rammus, the possibility of him being an Ascended is hinted, and it looked like the most logical thing to me. I didn't want to further lengthen the post so I just put him there.
Udyr is a shaman who channels animal spirits, but stays (mostly) in human form, that's why i kept him out.
Genuinely curious about minotaurs... what is their origin? Are them yet another class of furries altogheter? I thought they were simply Vastayan.
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| Rioter Comments | new Comments | Views | |||
nelogis
(EUW)
This is a very smart post that I enjoyed reading very much.
My compliments.
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Kai Guy
(NA)
Any champion can be strong or weak depending on numbers and meta favorability.
Look at Garen: the most straight forward basic kit and yet he was stomping hard even in challenger after his buffs.
The fact that Jayce has been very weak in a specific period of time doesn't change the fact that **his kit** is problematic.
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Smyrage
(EUNE)
With {{champion:126}} , you can't do shit. There is literally nothing specific you can do in order to prevent what he wants to do to you. Even trying to dodge his poke is out of the question: either he misses or he hits you. You respect his power, that's all: Jayce overall is very oppressive and lacks counterplay for those very reasons.
With {{champion:60}} you must watchout for the cocoon, and have to keep in mind that she can repel (for stalling or towerdiving). She requires her opponent to think of her peculiar strenghts, yes.
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Smyrage
(EUNE)
Are those champions really complicated **to play against**, though? You're missing the point in my opinion. While correctly executing those champions on a micro or macro level might be complex or very complex, their counterplay is quite straight forward for the enemy.
Often a basic knowledge of their kits is more than enough to locate the immediate action required to play optimally **against them**.
With {{champion:11}} {{champion:141}} {{champion:105}} you might want to keep your spells after they use their invulnerability, for example, and that's it. There is almost nothing else that you have to keep in mind playing vs those champions.
With {{champion:134}} as her opponent you're not required to track her orbs in order to estimate her R damage output: the burden of knowledge is on the Syndra player and not on her opponent. As an opponent, all you have to do against Syndra is watching out not to be in line with her and an orb for a stun.
With {{champion:498}} diving in could be suicide if her ult isn't baited out.
Now, those are all examples of reasonable "burden of knowledge" for the enemy. My fear (for now, its just a fear) is that Aphelios will either require to be afraid and play around the **entirety of his arsenal all the time** or to study is kit in order to **distinguish which parts of his arsenal are effectively a threath at the moment**.
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Wulf Helhammer
(NA)
The point is the following:
- anyone who wants to play Aphelios is required to invest a lot of time in understanding his spells and their different effects. This is completely fine and up to personal choice.
- on the other hand, **literally everybody else** is required a similar investement in Aphelios' kit knowledge because of understanding how to play around him.
Example: Aphelios pulled out this gun, very visually distinct from his other 4 guns. What am I, his opponent, supposed to do? What do I expect? Will I be rooted, marked, damaged etc or will Aphelios deploy a turret so should I stop my aggression? **What is the shape of the skillshot that I should dodge next?**
Look, Qiyana is tolerable because her Q might have different effects but mostly remains a line short range skillshot. Whatever she's doing with her 2k19champ dashes is her stuff, what I know is that she's trying to get close to me. I have an idea of how to play against her. With Aphelios, I fear that the burden of knowing his kit won't be only on his devoted and invested mains, but on every league player.
|
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Hexs Fortune
(NA)
GelsominoKiller
(EUW)
Skins are a product. A product is paid in money by the customer and is object of judgement.
I utterly don't care - can't stress enough how much i truly don't - if Rioters are people. Everybody is people.
What matters is that they are professionals, and professionals should have standards, skill and qualification for they are expected to deliver a certain task. If they fail their task, they should be held responsible for it.
TL;DR: I won't refrain from saying my car is a chunk of junk because Joe who made it feels bad about my statement. If Joe is so sensitive, he can deliver a better car, next time.
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Sir Saltarin
(EUW)
GelsominoKiller
(EUW)
Senna is far from being mobile, but she has a good number of kiting mechanics.
Her E for example can protect her from ranged autos, and speed her up to escape. On top of good movement speed, her passive grants her bonus movement speed based on her target's, which compensates for the long AA windup.
It could be argued that such mechanics shouldn't belong on a champion with that many tools already.
|
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Tworie
(NA)
Imagine being so bad you're matched with ARAM bots MMR
|
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R0ses R Red
(NA)
Wow, I didn't know the situation was that critical.
In the good old days, when the best meme about the balance team was "better nerf irelia" and not the "+0.25s to Zoe Q CD at rank 5", stats like those would have triggered in Morello a knee-jerk giga Nerf reaction in the subsequent patch.
Now somehow we call this game "competitive" even though it is acceptable to leave a champion that strong for so long.
|
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Variks the Loyal
(NA)
GelsominoKiller
(EUW)
> [{quoted}](name=Variks the Loyal,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Ei406kfZ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-11-13T23:55:41.072+0000)
>
> This is how I feel about getting someone to play a Tank.
>
> It's like some people are allergic to game-winning utility.
Tanks are completely unviable in pretty much any role, in every elo.
Instead of pretending people to play tanks, pick a Maokai top yourself, vs a Renekton. The reason why everybody refuses to pick a tank will appear clear and bright to you.
Unless you're one of those individuals that classifies Darius as a tank, then there is no discussion to make
|
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| Rioter Comments | new Comments | Views | |||
Leetri
(EUW)
GelsominoKiller
(EUW)
I'd rather have those 200hp, thanks.
|
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ZephyrDrake
(NA)
Considering Riot hasn't touched TT in 5 years, the resources saved by removing it are literally zero. Also they could have implemented a data-driven approximate balancing, just like Aram recently.
The problem with TT is that it is perceived by a large portion of the player base as a mini version of the rift, and so they say they'd rather play the original.
|
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ilikecookies1
(NA)
I can't blame Riot for being cheap, because the anniversary rewards were very generous.
But surely I can blame them for valuing TT players (and Dominion too) next to zero.
As a company, you shouldn't be removing game modes people enjoy, albeit a small community. But if you're hell-bent on doing so, at least show some appreciation.
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Crescent Dusk
(NA)
GelsominoKiller
(EUW)
> [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5WNt42P1,comment-id=000000030000,timestamp=2019-11-03T05:24:27.011+0000)
>
> lol pick/ban. Check the latest worlds finals and she barely shows up.
Jesus Christ dude. At least look things up before writing that level of buffoonery
|
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Tomoe Gozen
(EUNE)
GelsominoKiller
(EUW)
Look friend, all assassins from behind suck hard; some more than others.
An assassin that when behind can still pull off a teamwide stun wombo with a single skill has it good.
Too good, actually.
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Nyarlathοtep
(EUNE)
> [{quoted}](name=Nyarlathοtep,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=busyHRis,comment-id=0005000000010000,timestamp=2019-11-02T00:27:28.719+0000)
> Thats even WORSE. So what riot attempts will lead to a situation where literally blitz will be a q bot. Because they will refuse to address his range (or cast time). Do you know why i hate blitz as a champ? Because if my team picks it chances are that he will miss everything and be a e bot. And instead of 5v5 it will be a 4.5v5.
This was true also before the range buff, though. Blitzcrank has always been a Q bot whose success depended solely on landing the grab. This is a kit-related issue that would still stand even if his Q range was nerfed by 100 instead of buffed by 100.
He can only grab, but at least now he's unmatched in grabbing a far away target, and that's a reason to prefer him over his competitors, in certain situations.
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Nyarlathοtep
(EUNE)
> [{quoted}](name=Nyarlathοtep,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=busyHRis,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-11-01T21:14:43.019+0000)
>
> No he didnt? His winrate was just fine. The problem with blitz is his sole design. You miss? You are more or less useless (for a supp) for the next x seconds. You land? Too bad for the enemy. The target is completely isolated and he cant do anything to avoid his probable death (apart qss the knock up and then dashing/blinking away).
He didn't "need" the range increase because of Blitzcrank underperforming, but he "needed" it because of fleshing out his identity as "the hook".
Before the nerf, he was sub-optimal in the sense that if you wanted to pick a champion with long range displacement, you were better off picking thresh, Nautilus or pyke, because they have much more to offer beyond their equally long hooks.
After all, getting grabbed by Blitz is worse, but Pyke's, Naut's and Thresh's hooks are pretty much a death sentence anyway, so it doesn't matter.
With this change Blitzcrank has an identity, something only him can do. I support Riot in trying to preserve this newfound identity by nerfing something around it. Nobody really picks blitz for his armor, or crazy hook damage, but for the hook they do
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Romans VI XXIII
(NA)
GelsominoKiller
(EUW)
OMEGALUL is the most appropriate response
You blame me for not reading nor comprehending yet you didn't notice I wrote "balanceable" too, in my post.
And I meant exactly what I wrote: you can't design an assassin and slap a AOE teamfighting hard-CC nuke as their ultimate like it's nothing. It will never be balanceable.
|
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iiGazeii
(NA)
GelsominoKiller
(EUW)
1) Her autoattack are slow, true, but they also deal bonus damage, speed her up, and have huge (and scaling) range. Overall I'd say her autos are different, but not weak whatsoever. This does make building attackspeed on her suboptimal, though.
2) Her bAD is tied with the mist, and that's a tradeoff. She gets free crit, but her crits deal less damage. This pushes her away from building crit items, but free crit is still free crit (at 25 minutes, she can reach 80% with one crit item) and there are other build options for her, like lethality or triforce.
3) Her Q is as dodgeable as a Lucian Q, and has huge range. The damage zone is not thin whatsoever, it's average. The mana problems and the big CD are a limitation only in the laining phase (that's good, but many many spells are mana and cd gated in the early game), while in the lategame the Q spam is absurd: she can Q every two autos, and its range scales with her attack range.
4) Fair point on the W.
5) Your statement doesn't really cut away a lot from her E power. While Senna's position might signaled, it's still team-wide camouflage with solid extra bonuses for those ones exiting the area. You don't know how many and which enemies are in there. Getting in there gives vision on the whole pack, but it is akin to facechecking a bush, can you afford it? Not always. Maybe several people were mistaken into thinking it was a moving, team-wide akali shroud, but the reality isn't so different: it's still an incredibly powerful, unique and versatile spell slapped on an already overloaded kit which promises nothing but balancing problems for the years to come.
6) Her ultimate has INSANE travel speed, and it is just as wide as a Lux R, which is the most comparable skill. Anything you can hit with a Lux R, you can hit with a Senna's R, roughly.
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Romans VI XXIII
(NA)
GelsominoKiller
(EUW)
LuL an hypermobile assassin with one of the strongest AOE teamfighting ultimates, balanceable and well designed.
Just like an Akali with a malphite ultimate
100% pick/ban in proplay since release
Nice meme dude
|
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Illabethe
(NA)
I appreciate you bringing your experience to the topic. It is very valuable.
I tend to be skeptical about PBE-driven conclusions though, especially considering Yuumi released with a 35% WR while she was probably already on the strong side.
On the topic of mist stacking, I have seen quite different numbers, and noticed that a lot of people struggle to figure out they can gain stacks from champions hit, too. I believe 85-90 stacks at 25 minutes will be the average for an experienced senna player, but that's a guess. Anyway, the numbers you reported are quite low, using as a source many Senna games on the web.
Remember, also, that this is not inquiring about Senna's state of power, for even the simplest champion can be turned OP with enough number buffing (coff coff Garen). This is about Senna having so much stuff in her kit she'll risk either completely crowding out other champions, or being completely useless (the Kai'sa problem); at the same time, being so overloaded she'll risk being too strong for the best players, and too weak for everyone else, effectively preventing the majority of the playerbase from enjoying her (the Aatrox problem). She might even release with terrible WR, but she would still be fundamentally flawed.
The attack delay is a good point, for it introduces a tradeoff somewhere that can compensate for something elsewhere. That said, while Senna's AA animation is longer than her colleagues, she gains Crit and range from mist collecting (I wouldn't say AD too because her bAD doesn't scale, apparently), and her autos deal bonus damage and grant her movement speed based off her target's. All in all, her autos are different, but not necessarily weaker (just like Jhin).
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Smyrage
(EUNE)
> Good work needs time.
Not years. Some iteration is allowable, but we're reaching non-sustainable levels: as new problematic champions are introduced, older problematic champions are yet to be fixed.
Example: {{champion:266}} is one year and half old, and he boasts a mind-blowing 40% presence in patch notes, meaning that he has been changed monthly, and sometimes those changes aren't light work. Aatrox is still an issue far from being solved. {{champion:246}} is very recent, and she's pick/ban in competitive with all over the top stats. Her story has just started, but she's going though the same road Aatrox, Akali and others are in. If we keep releasing balance nightmares at this rate, the work they need to be fixed will accumulate and bring disaster.
> Also by your reasoning Sona is overloaded as well, because her Q empowers allied champion AA and pokes, W heals and shields and E grants speed.
?
Every single Sona spell does **one** thing: damage foes, protect allies, mobility for allies, CC and damage for enemies. Can't think of a less overloaded champion.
> And dude, Zed might not be overloaded for you, but he is considered overloaded by quite many players for all the things he can do as an assassin.
Ah yes, the many things Zed can do as an assassin, sure, conveniently omitted. What are those? Because Zed used to be proficient at assassinating and splitting, but his splitting potential was nerfed in season 3. Zed's kit is tailored toward outplay potential and single target assassination, which are pretty by-the-book for an assassin. Never ever have I seen somebody complain about Zed being overloaded. Zed being overpowered, unmanageable, unfair, many times. Overloaded? Never.
{{champion:238}}
P: extra damage on autos
Q: damage in a line
E: damage in a circle
W: get some bonus AD, drop a shadow that mimicks your spells. You can swap positions with the shadow.
R: dash to an enemy that will take bonus damage after a delay. Drop a shadow on cast, works like W shadow.
Pretty darn straight forward my dude.
|
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3TWarrior
(NA)
No, Kalista. Exactly Kalista.
{{champion:429}} is forced to be reduced to the shell of a champion she is now exactly because of that. Which is sad, to be honest.
If I recall correctly, she was the very first (even before Azir) balance nightmare (i.e. a champion that requires one change every two patches and several years only to be either reworked or made useless).
In desperation, the balance team even resorted to giving her an unprecedented non-100% AD ratio on her autos, but to no avail.
Why you might ask? Well... if you decide to make a champion with unparalleled kiting potential with a dash every auto, you probably shouldn't give her hard-CC, very strong slows, and a reliable way to bring in your support for aid. When Kalista was released, her passive was unaffected by movement speed (only boot rank) and she was basically immune to slows. Oh, and she outsmites junglers.
|
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Smyrage
(EUNE)
> The thing is: mechanically complex champions are easier to balance
That's a straight up false statement. Let me bring some facts: {{champion:84}} {{champion:266}} **took years (YEARS!!!!!!!!) worth of iterative changes, mini reworks, and several mechanics removal to gain some semblance of balance.** To this day, on those champions the gap between high diamond+ players and everybody else remains immense. Even now, they're still a problem and a point of frustration for players, and more changes are to come. Those two are just an example, but of the most recent champions i listed above, many others fall in this same sad history.
When {{champion:62}} happened to be overpowered for a couple of weeks due to on-auto damage item stacking, **ONE SINGLE NERF was enough to put him in line and he stopped being a problem since that.**
So yeah, can't really condone such statement.
> Also those one dimensional champions you really like
Random assumptions about me. I don't like one-dimensional champions, I think they should be reworked to modern standards.
You're completely biased and reason by extremes, like any design that isn't Senna-level of overloaded, must be Garen-level of stat check. **There is a SUPER WIDE GAP IN BETWEEN that we should aim for. Or are we just pretenting that 70% of the roster doesn't exist**, and that I hum am a big garen fan coz he easy n simple senna bad cuz she complicated.
{{champion:238}} to me is an example of an extremely mechanically complex champion which doesn't happen to be overloaded.
{{champion:516}} is recent, quite straight forward, but far from being one dimensional.
|
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Moody P
(NA)
I agree. But we're not talking "interesting" here.
We're talking overloaded.
Aatrox and Camille (right now) are interesting, but not overloaded.
Senna and Kalista interesting, but overloaded.
Overloaded champions tend to be problematic and end up unenjoyable for everybody after a long and exhausting series of nerfs, changes, mechanics removals and compensation buffs.
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TheUrbanKitsune
(NA)
I'll play the devil's advocate here:
- isn't blitzcrank his hook?
While Senna has many other things going for her, blitz plays around his hook.
Remove the shroud from her, Senna is still a fully fledged champion. Remove blitzcrank hook, he's nothing.
That's why the point is being overloaded, and not the mechanic itself. Sure, a mechanic can be respected and played around, but when they become so many, it's pointless.
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GelsominoKiller
Level 164 (EUW)
Lifetime Upvotes