nelogis (EUW)
: Complexity trough Simple Design vs Complexity trough Complexity
I always say that. Old design is simply more healthy for the game. Because simple spells don't mean the champion is easy. And I am not saying that there can't be harder spells but they still need be understood easily. Look at jax, he has simple spells and not overloaded kit yet he is way more diverse than any of the new champion. He can be played top / jugnle / hell even mid If you want. And I don't even need to list so many different builds on him. On the other hand pyke has overloaded kit yet he's only viable as support and thanks to his last change he is now forced to build lethality. New champions are designed to just look cool and shiny but not to be healthy for the game. You can go watch old eSport games, the game were way more competitive with old champion design because their idea was good and fitted the game. So yeah, I absolutely agree with you that complex overloaded kit doesn't mean it brings anything good or new to the game, it's just to look shiny to new players who don't know what the game is about. The thing about old champions is that they are easy to understand but hard to master and learn their playstyle. It's just sad to see this game breaking it's rules and fundamental design thus killing it's value. At least there are still youtube videos thanks to which we can remember how good the game once was. I remember myself in the old days always defending League as a game in a lot of arguments because it has always been big part of my love and I loved everything about it (fun play, tryharding, eSport, cosplays, lore). Nowdays I can't bring myself to tell everyone that League is the best game ever thanks to what Riot has done to it.
Ventira (NA)
: Good, that means there's reason for people to actually exercise good obj control. These changes feel like Riot's (admittedly heavy handed) attempt to promote better teamplay rather then the assassin-stuffed burst-fest we've suffered under in S9.
> [{quoted}](name=Ventira,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NQARZX0r,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-11-21T17:42:39.227+0000) > > Good, that means there's reason for people to actually exercise good obj control. These changes feel like Riot's (admittedly heavy handed) attempt to promote better teamplay rather then the assassin-stuffed burst-fest we've suffered under in S9. I don't know about that. Burst in the game is still the same. Games didn't slow down a bit and the minions still have buffed movement speed and damage from the last season. It's literally the same bullshit meta we had last 2 years with addition of one team doing insta kills If game somehow goes long enough to let the elder spawn. So you basically can't punish enemy team for doing mistakes in teamfight when they have elder.
CapxBear (NA)
: Execute in general is not fun for anyone but the person doing it in all honesty.. But this elder shit just seems bugged at the moment, also doesn't it just make Pyke and other executes useless if their team has it?
> [{quoted}](name=CapxBear,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NQARZX0r,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-11-21T17:33:48.646+0000) > > Execute in general is not fun for anyone but the person doing it in all honesty.. But this elder shit just seems bugged at the moment, also doesn't it just make Pyke and other executes useless if their team has it? I have to disagree here. It's not fun even for person doing it. Everytime I got elder I am so frustrated that I insta killed enemy just because of the buff. I did my spell rotation and got enemy to 300 HP where he should have room to use zhonya to buy some time for his team but he didn't get to it because elder isnta killed him. I just feel so bad when I am winning even though I play like shitt and this buff absolutely negates you doing small mistakes that should be punished.
nGio (NA)
: I feel you op. I've been here since launch, and I too am older(wife, kids, career, etc). I'm at the point where border colors and game stress in a speed meta have absolutely zero appeal. I play with a group of buddies who I've been gaming with since Starcraft, and rgms are all we're interested in playing on League. With limited garbage time, I chose to play other games over spending another second in ranked, but I'll always stop back by for some URF or OFA.
> [{quoted}](name=nGio,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EZXasQ4j,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-11-22T20:53:26.340+0000) > > I feel you op. I've been here since launch, and I too am older(wife, kids, career, etc). I'm at the point where border colors and game stress in a speed meta have absolutely zero appeal. I play with a group of buddies who I've been gaming with since Starcraft, and rgms are all we're interested in playing on League. With limited garbage time, I chose to play other games over spending another second in ranked, but I'll always stop back by for some URF or OFA. I hate the current meta too but don't say things like "I am too old", "have family now". Family is literally your own preference and If you have one don't cry that you won't keep up with others who have League as first priority in their life.
Jikker (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Hypochondria9,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nLRemRgG,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-11-10T18:32:51.279+0000) > > I don't know how they prepared against FPX, but they didn't seem like the same team that beat SKT. Maybe FPX just kept getting better and better and G2 had already peaked or thought they were good enough already after beating SKT. > > I would never say it was scripted, but the balance decisions in the last few years have definitely been more embraced by Chinese teams than other regions. And that's the main reason it's a bit difficult to accept and feels so tempting to buy into the conspiracy. If G2 looked like G2 and got actually outplayed, I wouldn't be posting any of this. However, G2 looked like....anyone _but_ G2. And that's what's odd. They rarely have their mojo off, especially in high level competitive games and here they just looked like they grabbed whatever they wanted like it was a derpy norm or URF game. G2 did not come to play today and that's what's odd. The lack of applause in the actual Paris arena and the outrage both on the Boards and Reddit is kinda proving the point. For reference, last year Fnatic looked awful but they looked tilted so I was more upset at Fnatic for not playing properly whereas this year G2 looked very scattered and like they didn't know wth they were doing, not even tilted but just an uncaring team. It almost felt like they were half asleep or sick or something. If it comes out that something fishy was happening, I sadly wouldn't be surprised. I don't expect anything to come to light, but it wouldn't be a shocker as much as other years.
> [{quoted}](name=Jikker,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nLRemRgG,comment-id=000a0001,timestamp=2019-11-10T18:39:11.485+0000) > > And that's the main reason it's a bit difficult to accept and feels so tempting to buy into the conspiracy. If G2 looked like G2 and got actually outplayed, I wouldn't be posting any of this. However, G2 looked like....anyone _but_ G2. And that's what's odd. They rarely have their mojo off, especially in high level competitive games and here they just looked like they grabbed whatever they wanted like it was a derpy norm or URF game. G2 did not come to play today and that's what's odd. > > The lack of applause in the actual Paris arena and the outrage both on the Boards and Reddit is kinda proving the point. > > For reference, last year Fnatic looked awful but they looked tilted so I was more upset at Fnatic for not playing properly whereas this year G2 looked very scattered and like they didn't know wth they were doing, not even tilted but just an uncaring team. It almost felt like they were half asleep or sick or something. > > If it comes out that something fishy was happening, I sadly wouldn't be surprised. I don't expect anything to come to light, but it wouldn't be a shocker as much as other years. G2 did the same mistake Fnatic did. They fight a fire with fire. They play aggressive against the best region in aggression. G2 played more scaling picks in 3rd game where they had the best shot to win. Both Fnatic and G2 could beat them but they were too much influenced by EU meta and refuse to play for late game.
: Yeah the difference between today's Akali and Old Akali is that Riot just threw Akali to the sideline and didn't bother to touch her at all after they made it so she needed to auto for her Mark. Then they broke her again with the Assassin rework, but honestly it's been years since that day, and I can't remember what exactly went wrong :T.
> [{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=N1u8e6qU,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-11-10T18:49:37.602+0000) > > Yeah the difference between today's Akali and Old Akali is that Riot just threw Akali to the sideline and didn't bother to touch her at all after they made it so she needed to auto for her Mark. Then they broke her again with the Assassin rework, but honestly it's been years since that day, and I can't remember what exactly went wrong :T. New design went wrong. Champions are designed to look flashy and cool nowdays instead of being healthy for the gameplay. Old akali had a lot of burst since lvl 6 but she had more counterplay. I generally hate the reworks. Old champions haven't been shown in pro play not because they were badly designed but because meta was different.
: No. They're running out of ideas for traditional supports, and so they're making pseudo-supports that help more people get into the role.
> [{quoted}](name=WAZZZUP500,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=L8cR034r,comment-id=0016,timestamp=2019-10-31T15:12:20.396+0000) > > No. They're running out of ideas for traditional supports Good, no one forces them to make new champions. A lot of new champions seem random anyways. They should just wait for good idea and then add it even if it took 1 year. Who cares about new champions anyways? all the it adds is just another variable that makes balance harder. I used to be hyped for champion releases but nowdays it's just absolutely random without idea behind it. They either make copypasta champion or something that doesn't match the game.
: > [{quoted}](name=MOuHahaHAhahaaaa,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=L8cR034r,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-10-30T14:50:45.345+0000) > > There were times when a company decided that : > > The support role was there to protect the adc shield him heal him and poke a little bit to create a little bit of peel. > > Nowadays the role of the support seems to be slowly Going to be a second adc and second damage dealer. The main cause of the support role changing is because most normal support champs have been nerfed, and tanks are not useful as they once were. Riot does not think about random players. They only think about the pro players that keep there game going. Pro players will play one type of way, but many players don't play the same. So in the end they removed front line play style, and most of the cc that came with supports. Most players know riot won't care what random players think so players just pick normal damage roles, and off meta roles to counter the play style riot try's to enforce.
> [{quoted}](name=Ash Lockheart,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=L8cR034r,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2019-10-31T00:06:59.586+0000) > > The main cause of the support role changing is because most normal support champs have been nerfed, and tanks are not useful as they once were. Riot does not think about random players. They only think about the pro players that keep there game going. Pro players will play one type of way, but many players don't play the same. So in the end they removed front line play style, and most of the cc that came with supports. Most players know riot won't care what random players think so players just pick normal damage roles, and off meta roles to counter the play style riot try's to enforce. I think pro players actually prefer older meta because old meta was way more competitive. I think it's that viewers enjoy eSport more thus Riot getting more viewership because a lot of fans considered the games boring since they don't understand how macro, pressure and lane management in pro play works including things like building teamcomp and different win conditions. And champions killing each other is way more fun and understandable for majority of fans. For me pro play was always exciting and I can't describe how I enjoyed watching it. Now I consider it boring because everyone playing for early game advantage like there is no tomorrow isn't appealing to me. Pro gamers do a lot more mistakes now and it doesn't feel as pro as it used to be. I prefered controlled slow paced games where there was more fighting for vision control and players didn't let themselves being killed easily unless the jungler did very smart move with the laner's smart wave management.
Larriet (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Tomoe Gozen,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=L8cR034r,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2019-10-30T22:32:12.655+0000) > People saying that Pyke doesn't belong in the bot lane is a really narrow-minded opinion of what supports used to be years ago. And i am glad that everyone's getting variety. People who want to play nanny Soraka can still do that while i can play a something that fits my vision of what supports should be able to do. I agree with you on this. I play Enchanters, but I'm excited for more diversity in EVERY role. Pyke doing loads of damage is hardly an issue to me; if I get pulled by Blitzcrank it doesn't matter that he's a tank and not an assassin, I'm freaking dead. In lane, the two have pretty much the same outcome, and out of lane getting caught out by Pyke is no different than any other assassin, so I don't see the issue unless ALL assassins are inherently bad mid-late game. Senna's Recommended items also give her {{item:3114}} items, so I'm excited to play her using those, anyway.
> [{quoted}](name=Larriet,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=L8cR034r,comment-id=0004000000000001,timestamp=2019-10-30T23:40:05.800+0000) > > I agree with you on this. I play Enchanters, but I'm excited for more diversity in EVERY role. Why? do you like being dps? go mid or adc. Like playing tank? go top, jungle or supp. Do you like supporting your ally and providing utility? go supp or top (in the past). Why the fuck you care for diversity when you can literally chose the role that fits your playstyle?
Tomoe Gozen (EUNE)
: Everyone likes to do damage. I don't like to sit in the back and literally change the diapers of Marksmen who want to go full aggro without their heads attached. That being said, i prefer Zilean myself than Pyke but to each his own. People saying that Pyke doesn't belong in the bot lane is a really narrow-minded opinion of what supports used to be years ago. And i am glad that everyone's getting variety. People who want to play nanny Soraka can still do that while i can play a something that fits my vision of what supports should be able to do.
> [{quoted}](name=Tomoe Gozen,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=L8cR034r,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2019-10-30T22:32:12.655+0000) > > Everyone likes to do damage. > I don't like to sit in the back and literally change the diapers of Marksmen who want to go full aggro without their heads attached. That being said, i prefer Zilean myself than Pyke but to each his own. > > People saying that Pyke doesn't belong in the bot lane is a really narrow-minded opinion of what supports used to be years ago. And i am glad that everyone's getting variety. People who want to play nanny Soraka can still do that while i can play a something that fits my vision of what supports should be able to do. First sentence is absolutely wrong. I myself don't like doing damage or at least the damage that is currently in meta. Your comment is not wrong but it kills the point of clasees. Ever played wow? you simply don't play paladin as dps, mage as tank or even warrior as "support". Variety is fine but you shouldn't really play syndra on adc role or damage dealer as support. That's just byproduct of Riot focusing more on appealing to bad players rather than gameplay itself or players that actually know how the game works.
: No they're not. They merely accepting poke-y/carry-like champs as a category for supports. Riot is not to blame however. It was the PLAYERS who, with creativity, ingenuity, and balls to try out something different to win, made it happen. **AHEM** if I recall, this was a thing since Season 1 or Season 2 when TSM Xpecial played Annie support? Idr the true origins of this category of supports but certainly it has been happening for about as long as LoL has been around.
> [{quoted}](name=l Ryden l,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=L8cR034r,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2019-10-30T20:33:23.882+0000) > > No they're not. They merely accepting poke-y/carry-like champs as a category for supports. > > Riot is not to blame however. It was the PLAYERS who, with creativity, ingenuity, and balls to try out something different to win, made it happen. > > **AHEM** if I recall, this was a thing since Season 1 or Season 2 when TSM Xpecial played Annie support? Idr the true origins of this category of supports but certainly it has been happening for about as long as LoL has been around. Didn't know that players created pyke :O interseting...
: It's been so long that people have forgotten that champions used to be released and the players were supposed to come up with their roles and what they were good at. Truly a bad timeline that we live in.
> [{quoted}](name=Blue Shift,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=L8cR034r,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-10-30T20:15:18.537+0000) > > It's been so long that people have forgotten that champions used to be released and the players were supposed to come up with their roles and what they were good at. Truly a bad timeline that we live in. You should get more upvotes. I remember the times when Riot released the champion and people were trying him on different roles because they didn't know where he fits the best. Of course that Vi is not gonna be played as adc but is she jungler or top laner, people didn't know. Riot made the change and community + pro scene decided what fits the best for them. Riot is forcing too much everything now, both meta and champion's role. They literally forced high burst damage and fast paced meta. Current meta isn't something that evolved but Riot added more mobility, damage, golds per second, they buffed minion's movement speed and damage.
: > [{quoted}](name=MOuHahaHAhahaaaa,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=L8cR034r,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-10-30T14:50:45.345+0000) > > There were times when a company decided that : > > The support role was there to protect the adc shield him heal him and poke a little bit to create a little bit of peel. > > Nowadays the role of the support seems to be slowly Going to be a second adc and second damage dealer. Enchanters are still considered supports, but Riot has been trying to make the support role more "fun" for people who get autofilled to support from their main role ever since the release of Rakan. Flashy playmaker crying in boredom at the idea of afk healing their carry for 35 minutes? Hello Rakan Talon main gets autofilled to support? Welcome Pyke Marksman main gets assigned support? Introducing Senna ######I'm not sure what the plan was for Yuumi though. They created a support with the lowest possible skill floor while I imagine they were trying to make an enchanter viable for Pro Play, but many Rioters would likely agree that Yuumi's design is currently questionable and needs some refining to really deliver on what she was meant to be.
> [{quoted}](name=The23rdGamer,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=L8cR034r,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-10-30T17:29:30.344+0000) > > Enchanters are still considered supports, but Riot has been trying to make the support role more "fun" for people who get autofilled to support from their main role ever since the release of Rakan. > > Flashy playmaker crying in boredom at the idea of afk healing their carry for 35 minutes? Hello Rakan > Talon main gets autofilled to support? Welcome Pyke > Marksman main gets assigned support? Introducing Senna > > ######I'm not sure what the plan was for Yuumi though. They created a support with the lowest possible skill floor while I imagine they were trying to make an enchanter viable for Pro Play, but many Rioters would likely agree that Yuumi's design is currently questionable and needs some refining to really deliver on what she was meant to be. I would still like to have people trolling when they get support rather than Riot ruining the class. But since majority of community doesn't know how the game works how can people like me make a change right?
: I think it's less "Turn support into a damage role" and more "Make playing support more appealing to different players". Even though Pyke is quite controversial, it is undeniable that he has been a great success in offering a vastly different play style for players who don't like conventional poke, peel, and heal supports. And since support is still the least picked role in many regions, more diversity also helps to reduce autofilling, or at least make it less painful.
> [{quoted}](name=DerMangoJoghurt,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=L8cR034r,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-10-30T15:45:22.534+0000) > > I think it's less "Turn support into a damage role" and more "Make playing support more appealing to different players". > Even though Pyke is quite controversial, it is undeniable that he has been a great success in offering a vastly different play style for players who don't like conventional poke, peel, and heal supports. And since support is still the least picked role in many regions, more diversity also helps to reduce autofilling, or at least make it less painful. more diversity also fucks the point of classes but whatever. Seems like the game is doomed anyways unless season 10 does smth.
: Is Riot trying to change the support role ?
Riot is streamlining the game. Every role can carry now or has built in damage which is bullshit and absolutely kills the point of classes and roles which have been there from the beginning. Every new champion has overloaded kit with everything he needs. New champion design is horrible. I think the best example for old design and new design is jax x pyke. Pyke is only support and Riot literally forced him to build lethality because he scales with it (no idea why). And then you have jax that is old champion and his kit is simple but you can build him in almost 3 different types and you can play him on top / jungle either as split pushed in late game or second engager. You can build him dps or tank for teamfighting. Riot doesn't understand that their "cool" kits full of mobility and effects don't mean that the champion is good for gameplay. It's all based on the fact that major part of community is absolutely dumb and thinks that it's cool how all the champions are bursting each other in second and have tons of mobility but they don't see things like macro, wave management, that not every class is carry but you have front line, mid line, back line, dps, engagers, peel, utility. Imagine putting kog maw in hands of nowday's players, they would have no idea what do to because the champion doesn't have jump and burst damage. Just sad, I still have hope that Riot will bring back competitive side of league back though. Not even mentioning that the game used to be equally viable for casual players as well as tryhard players.
: > I enjoyed season 5 and 6 really a lot and I am happy that I could live through the best times of league. It's just so sad that new players won't be able to experience it because of people like you who don't understnad how the game actually works. I could make a whole article where I explain you macro, lane management and every part of the game but as I see it would be useless anyways since you are too narrow minded. Dunning Krueger effect at its best. You have nothing to bring to this conversation but ad hominem attacks and you entitled opinion of what was best based on your incomplete memories of the past. I could write books about macro, it's the common ground of the dozen of RTS I've played, some competitively. You are the one opposed to the changes because it means you have to learn again and again and you're afraid to get out of your confort zone, but of course I'm the narrow minded. You are already an elder in spirit, repeating "the past was better" and not wanting the world to change, because you only remember the good parts and you do not understand what's happening. I'm blessed with the capacity to remember the worst of the past seasons (And I can assure you there was a lot of terrible things) as I will remember the worst of the current season and the nexts seasons. That's your problem, you could write a whole article, you just have hard learnt knowledge and riots keep changing the paradigm in which we play. And adapting requires an effort. I know how to adapt, I know how to get the fuck out of a game I do not like anymore. Be like me.
> [{quoted}](name=Starcraft243ver,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=655oYE3q,comment-id=000a00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-30T10:09:17.633+0000) > > Dunning Krueger effect at its best. You have nothing to bring to this conversation but ad hominem attacks and you entitled opinion of what was best based on your incomplete memories of the past. > > I could write books about macro, it's the common ground of the dozen of RTS I've played, some competitively. > > You are the one opposed to the changes because it means you have to learn again and again and you're afraid to get out of your confort zone, but of course I'm the narrow minded. > > You are already an elder in spirit, repeating "the past was better" and not wanting the world to change, because you only remember the good parts and you do not understand what's happening. I'm blessed with the capacity to remember the worst of the past seasons (And I can assure you there was a lot of terrible things) as I will remember the worst of the current season and the nexts seasons. > > That's your problem, you could write a whole article, you just have hard learnt knowledge and riots keep changing the paradigm in which we play. And adapting requires an effort. I know how to adapt, I know how to get the fuck out of a game I do not like anymore. > > Be like me. I am completely ok with changes. I just want to keep the design that matches the game. The game is designed to be slow paced and not full of high burst and fast games. I would be completely fine with changes Riot is doing for season 10 If it was on old meta. Different types of drakes that change the map opens a lof of room for new strategies. It's just that they should keep good changes. When you would get different things / buffs from monsters in jungle when you smite them, was really good change for macro and competitive gaming. Yet they deleted it for the sake of "freshness". They could keep the change and add something else.
GreenLore (EUW)
: In all seriousness I think the thought process was actually more about giving her the ability to camouflage herself and allies, but because that was too op, the allies are shown as ghouls to the enemy team, giving at least away their location, while still being camouflaged. Granted I still fear that this ability will be unbalanceable the way it is, but the actual thought process isn't that complicated.
> [{quoted}](name=GreenLore,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HZbEEIRZ,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-10-30T00:33:53.461+0000) > > In all seriousness I think the thought process was actually more about giving her the ability to camouflage herself and allies, but because that was too op, the allies are shown as ghouls to the enemy team, giving at least away their location, while still being camouflaged. > > Granted I still fear that this ability will be unbalanceable the way it is, but the actual thought process isn't that complicated. It's that more of that Riot's new champion design team have fetish for having overloaded kits instead of just making simple kit and focus on the gameplay itself and what diversity she can bring. Yeah literally 0 just like pyke. Riot deleted pyke's smallest diversitry he had by forcing him to go full lethality. Look at jax, he has simple kit. P: bonus attack speed, Q: jump + dmg, W: dmg, E: stun + dmg, R: defense stats. And he can be played as full ad, hybrid, tank and combination of these while he can be either played as second engager or split pusher. It's not about having overloaded kit to have good and competitive gameplay. It seems like Riot replaced a lot of members in champ design team because they definitely forgot how the game works.
: tryhard is easy, is so easy that there is no reason to do that. People should tryhard ranked but there I just see trolls
> [{quoted}](name=Light of Madness,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EVmrfcNK,comment-id=00190000,timestamp=2019-10-29T17:00:55.692+0000) > > tryhard is easy, is so easy that there is no reason to do that. > > People should tryhard ranked but there I just see trolls Same goes for normals. People are literally tryharding everything but ranked. Which is absolute opposite of how Riot designed the modes. How can be people so dumb?
: Hem, - I do not watch pro scene, - I'm 28 years old, - I've played at grandmaster level and competitively on starcraft 2 - I've played and still play warcraft 3 - i'm casually playing LoL but still get D3 which is decent I think I was playing warwick in season 5, 6 and I was already killing the ADC in one rotation when I reached level 6, which is quite funy because one rotation for warwick was 2 spells back then : R and Q (ok I was using red smite and had red buff, but still.) So no you could not be more wrong but nice try, you deserve a pat on the back. Now my point of view is : Slow pace and less damages means more room for mistakes, which means the game is actually less competitive, even in chess you have a timer for your turns so you have to take relatively "fast" decisions. I'm not saying the damages are not a bit too high, I'm just saying they are not THAT high, I was able to one rotation my opponents with veigar in season 5 around the same timing, i'm saying that tank meta was not fun, i'm saying the juggernaut patch was not fun, I'm saying junglers powerfarming their feral flare was not fun, you tend to forget easily how bad some part of the previous seasons were. In a tank meta the ganks are less effective, so what do junglers do ? They pick drain tanks or tanks killers and they powerfarm, that's exactly what I was doing S5,6 with Warwick because I was in Canada playing on EUW, so I had a lot of ping, yet I still reached D3 with a 60% winrate with warwick so much for interactivity and skill.
> [{quoted}](name=Starcraft243ver,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=655oYE3q,comment-id=000a000100000000,timestamp=2019-10-29T10:33:00.412+0000) > > Hem, > > - I do not watch pro scene, > - I'm 28 years old, > - I've played at grandmaster level and competitively on starcraft 2 > - I've played and still play warcraft 3 > - i'm casually playing LoL but still get D3 which is decent I think > > I was playing warwick in season 5, 6 and I was already killing the ADC in one rotation when I reached level 6, which is quite funy because one rotation for warwick was 2 spells back then : R and Q (ok I was using red smite and had red buff, but still.) > > So no you could not be more wrong but nice try, you deserve a pat on the back. > > Now my point of view is : > > Slow pace and less damages means more room for mistakes, which means the game is actually less competitive, even in chess you have a timer for your turns so you have to take relatively "fast" decisions. > > I'm not saying the damages are not a bit too high, I'm just saying they are not THAT high, I was able to one rotation my opponents with veigar in season 5 around the same timing, i'm saying that tank meta was not fun, i'm saying the juggernaut patch was not fun, I'm saying junglers powerfarming their feral flare was not fun, you tend to forget easily how bad some part of the previous seasons were. > > In a tank meta the ganks are less effective, so what do junglers do ? They pick drain tanks or tanks killers and they powerfarm, that's exactly what I was doing S5,6 with Warwick because I was in Canada playing on EUW, so I had a lot of ping, yet I still reached D3 with a 60% winrate with warwick so much for interactivity and skill. I enjoyed season 5 and 6 really a lot and I am happy that I could live through the best times of league. It's just so sad that new players won't be able to experience it because of people like you who don't understnad how the game actually works. I could make a whole article where I explain you macro, lane management and every part of the game but as I see it would be useless anyways since you are too narrow minded.
: > [{quoted}](name=Get Outscaled,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=655oYE3q,comment-id=00270000,timestamp=2019-10-29T00:59:29.400+0000) > > Then you slept through season 5 Oh you mean the season on which, if you did not have a tank killer in your team you had lost in the champ select screen ? Yeah it was amazing. Oh hell no. It was the season of powerfarming feral flare junglers as well. It was not bad, but not good either.
> [{quoted}](name=Starcraft243ver,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=655oYE3q,comment-id=002700000000,timestamp=2019-10-29T09:31:28.660+0000) > > Oh you mean the season on which, if you did not have a tank killer in your team you had lost in the champ select screen ? Yeah it was amazing. Oh hell no. It was the season of powerfarming feral flare junglers as well. It was not bad, but not good either. Yeah because front line is fundamental of strong composition. Yeah good old time when you could have ward item as jungler but I guess it's better to have random fights just because you don't have enough vision. Nevermind, you better go play call of duty, that suits your mindset more. I bet you have never played chess either, too boring right?
: You really miss when we had 5 to 6 tanks every game ?
> [{quoted}](name=Starcraft243ver,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=655oYE3q,comment-id=000a0001,timestamp=2019-10-28T12:26:35.539+0000) > > You really miss when we had 5 to 6 tanks every game ? Yes because tanks make game more competitive generally. The part they make the most competitive are teamfights. Thanks to them you have actual construction of teamfight and they last longer which again makes more competitive teamfights and you have to actually show your skill at that part of the game as well. If you can for example position better in teamfight than your opponent you should be able to incease % chance of winning. But people like you are simply not smart enough to understand the actual gameplay so you whine in twitch chat that pro scene is boring because they just farm for a long time (I understand that young people like you have 5 seconds attention span) and nothing is happening (is not actually true but bad players view it like that). Nevermind, good luck in your soloQ games, don't forget to be happy when you smash buttons and by mistake kill someone because you don't really need to have spell rotations to make a kill in s9 right?
: > So since Riot is releasing new FPS game, could we get back our late game meta full of diverse compositions and champions on each role? When was this a thing exactly ? I'm only playing since season 4 and i've never seen a meta in which everything was viable.
> [{quoted}](name=Starcraft243ver,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=655oYE3q,comment-id=0027,timestamp=2019-10-28T12:21:21.896+0000) > > When was this a thing exactly ? I'm only playing since season 4 and i've never seen a meta in which everything was viable. Then you slept through season 5
LTK KoRo (EUW)
: that's why i'd rather have short games, since i play stuff like Kled or Lee sin. Some people like short games, others like long games, but point is, OP is talking like he knows opinion of 100% of the league players, which is obviously false.
> [{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=655oYE3q,comment-id=0001000000000001,timestamp=2019-10-28T10:25:15.332+0000) > > that's why i'd rather have short games, since i play stuff like Kled or Lee sin. Some people like short games, others like long games, but point is, OP is talking like he knows opinion of 100% of the league players, which is obviously false. I am not talking like I know opinion of 100% of players. I talk like I knwo what's good for the game. Even If it's late game meta, casuals like you can always play your picks in normals. If you are good enough on the pick, you can play it in rankeds as well since late game meta doesn't mean you can't play for early. If your goal isn't to make challenger, you don't really need to care about the meta. I just want late game comps to be viable strategy in soloQ as well as in eSport. Look what your bullshit meta did to eSport. It's good for kids who think that fighting is cool because their attention span is 5 seconds and they don't understand high level of gaming in league.
LTK KoRo (EUW)
: this argument totally works since right now games aren't snoozefests and outside of ~30 players on NA gameplay boards no one whines about them. Numbers are against you sweetie, since ranked playerbase is now at it's highest point ever. If you believe that game is no fun right now and you're 100% in right, why 3 milion people playing ranked on EUW disagree with you?
> [{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=655oYE3q,comment-id=00060000000200010000,timestamp=2019-10-28T10:15:27.087+0000) > > this argument totally works since right now games aren't snoozefests and outside of ~30 players on NA gameplay boards no one whines about them. Numbers are against you sweetie, since ranked playerbase is now at it's highest point ever. If you believe that game is no fun right now and you're 100% in right, why 3 milion people playing ranked on EUW disagree with you? It's more that people who agree with me already left the game and others don't bother talking on boards since they know it's not gonna help. Other 80% are casuals or low elo. There are about 10% of people in diamond and even a lot of them still don't udnerstand how eSport games work or generally how the game is actually played. You can see challengers doing common lane management mistakes when they push in the time they should freeze let alone understand that slower paced meta is more competitive and that game is not designed to support fast paced meta in balanced state (which is more of a game dev knowledge but that doesn't excuse anyone).
: Problem is everything with Riot is so extreme. If we have a slower meta then early game stops mattering. If tanks are relevant then you can't play assassins anymore. If ADCs get more agency early game then they 1v9 if they win lane. This company with all their "Data" can't find the balance between the extremes, so god damn mediocre.
> [{quoted}](name=Hayaishi2,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=655oYE3q,comment-id=0023,timestamp=2019-10-28T06:12:47.595+0000) > > Problem is everything with Riot is so extreme. If we have a slower meta then early game stops mattering. > > If tanks are relevant then you can't play assassins anymore. > > If ADCs get more agency early game then they 1v9 if they win lane. > > This company with all their "Data" can't find the balance between the extremes, so god damn mediocre. Assassins shouldn't be viable anyways competitively wise with exceptions of LB and kassadin. Early game will always matter since it adds more advantage and earlier power spikes meaning you have more % chance of winning even If it's late game meta. ADC should be able to kill whole enemy team with good positioning, strong front line and good peeling. That's what should be standart team comp anyways: DPS + front line and additions like peel, utility or mid line.
LTK KoRo (EUW)
: if you dont enjoy playing short games, go play age of empires or civilization this argument work in the both ways, if you think you're right because you and some shitbags from boards like 60 minutes snoozefests more, then well, you're wrong
> [{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=655oYE3q,comment-id=000600000002,timestamp=2019-10-27T18:20:33.821+0000) > > if you dont enjoy playing short games, go play age of empires or civilization > > this argument work in the both ways, if you think you're right because you and some shitbags from boards like 60 minutes snoozefests more, then well, you're wrong The argument doesn't work both ways because League was designed to have long games. Yes, you can play fast and short games in league but you would have to redesign whole gameplay, from lanes to objectives, which is Riot actually kinda doing. They are basically making whole different game. They should have just make another game because by some definitions you can basically say old league is different type of game than league now. League was at fine state, both competitive and casual gameplay. They should have let it be at that and just make patch with balance changes from time to time. I don't even mind change that much If it's reasonable but Riot isn't even changing the game anymore for some kind of goal, they just change it for the sake of change. Champion releases are absolutely random without any valid reason. Remember when jungle camps gave you bonuses when you smited them, that was good refreshing change to the game, guess what, they removed it. Why? Because change didn't happen in a long time and they had no idea what to do next so they just randomly removed the good feature.
Xavanic (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=KVbqbFsC8e,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=655oYE3q,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-10-26T23:33:23.142+0000) > > Why do you assume that everyone who likes fast paced games are children? Not everyone enjoys sitting through 50 minute losses. if you dont enjoy playing long games, go play an fps or smite
> [{quoted}](name=Xavanic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=655oYE3q,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-10-27T01:43:35.556+0000) > > if you dont enjoy playing long games, go play an fps or smite Literally my point. This is MOBA not FPS. That's why we have multiple games for different genres.
DNFVixen (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Get Outscaled,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=655oYE3q,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-10-26T21:25:39.119+0000) > > So since Riot is releasing new FPS game, could we get back our late game meta full of diverse compositions and champions on each role? All the players (children) who like fast paced games where teamfights last 4 seconds, tanks are dead thus teamfights have no actual construction and only 2 adcs are viable, can now go to FPS. Like really, why don't just all those players go to play overwatch or smth fast paced instead of supporting Riot in ruining League. > > Those fast paced games have bad influence on players too. Surrenders rarely happened in the past but now you have surrender votes from 15 minutes until the end of the game because everyone is giving up If they lose lane. Players are simply not caring because the games are fast and they can go another in no time anyway. I cannot imagine what would today's community do in 1 hour game. Players lost attention and their attention span is about 10 or 15 minutes. > > Now If I put all the hate aside, I think it would be really good move to satisfy players. There are still players like me who like diverse and long games full of long teamfights, even though a lot of them stopped playing league. So players like me would get to play those games and people who like call of duty type of games can go to play FPS. You simply can't merge all genres into MOBA. > > I wouldn't even care so much If Riot didn't force the meta so hard but They literally said that they want to make games faster and all the changes are supporting the fast paced games. They literally gave minions higher movement speed and damage over time because god bless If the game went over 30 minutes. I miss the old game length, leagues hight was seasons 5 and 6. I miss when you REALLY had to think when playing. This game used to have so much diversity but they have steadily removed the diversity and forced people to play only one way on every champion except a select few who can be played 2 ways. I remember back when there was many ways to play most champions. Look what they did to WW Nidalee and Evelynn they removed their hybrid stats. I mained bruiser Nidalee and I mained AD Evelynn but now I can't do either due to removal of hybrid stats. Hell a lot of my favorite YouTubers quit because the game is boring to them now and it isn't because of how long they have been playing they literally quit because riot made the game boring to them by removing diversity.
> [{quoted}](name=DNFVixen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=655oYE3q,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-10-27T00:32:10.669+0000) > > I miss the old game length, leagues hight was seasons 5 and 6. I miss when you REALLY had to think when playing. This game used to have so much diversity but they have steadily removed the diversity and forced people to play only one way on every champion except a select few who can be played 2 ways. I remember back when there was many ways to play most champions. Look what they did to WW Nidalee and Evelynn they removed their hybrid stats. I mained bruiser Nidalee and I mained AD Evelynn but now I can't do either due to removal of hybrid stats. Hell a lot of my favorite YouTubers quit because the game is boring to them now and it isn't because of how long they have been playing they literally quit because riot made the game boring to them by removing diversity. Exactly. I think too that season 5 and 6 were the best season ever. And it't not because of lost nostalgia since I play since s3. You are right in all your points about diversity. Remember sivHD making videos? Now that I think about it I loved how both the competitive and fun way to play were viable. So I could watch LCS to see high skill complex games and then sivHD to relax and laugh.
: Late game champs like {{champion:157}} can beat your ass in during first ten minutes thanks to bullshit like conqueror and eletrocute. I say runes are a major issue, and the lack of defensive items vs true damage
> [{quoted}](name=Tuition Fee,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=655oYE3q,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-10-26T23:25:46.445+0000) > > Late game champs like {{champion:157}} can beat your ass in during first ten minutes thanks to bullshit like conqueror and eletrocute. > I say runes are a major issue, and the lack of defensive items vs true damage I agree. I feel like it all started with rune changes. Riot just keeps adding mobility and damage to the game, making tanks in teamfights irrelevant even more. I am ok with champion having high damage but there needs to be counterplay. There used to be both tanks and dps viable, no idea how could Riot ruin that. But most of it is because of the new runes and new champion design.
: You make it sound like Riot made the game fast pace because it's what some players wanted & those players would be satisfied with the FPS. Maybe it's one reason, but there's another & likely bigger reason. Proplay. Isn't the main reason the game is more fast paced now because Riot want pro games to be more exciting? Unless the FPS game becomes Riot top dog in terms of Proplay, I don't see them slowing down the game's pace because people will still be watching LoL Esports.
> [{quoted}](name=N1C Jeddy017,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=655oYE3q,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-10-27T00:16:11.318+0000) > > You make it sound like Riot made the game fast pace because it's what some players wanted & those players would be satisfied with the FPS. Maybe it's one reason, but there's another & likely bigger reason. > > Proplay. Isn't the main reason the game is more fast paced now because Riot want pro games to be more exciting? > Unless the FPS game becomes Riot top dog in terms of Proplay, I don't see them slowing down the game's pace because people will still be watching LoL Esports. To be honest the viewership of eSport dropped a lot. EU LCS games used to have same viewership as worlds now. And generally the hype around eSport really decreased. Most of the games are 3:0. We used to have worlds finals basically 5 hours long which was hype af and now you have 3:0 that is at best 2 hours long together, not even that. I understand some people view mindless fighting 24/7 as really hype game. But for that I have soloQ, When I watch eSport I want to watch high competitive game where first kill is at 15 minutes because both teams are smart and don't do risky plays. Even casters seem like they are not even saying true feelings anymore, they are just trying to scream as much as possible to make anything look like hype.
Rioter Comments
: How is that any different back then to today? It's not like bad teammates just suddenly started existing post Season 5
> [{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4B3aZTp6,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-10-25T20:20:36.466+0000) > > How is that any different back then to today? It's not like bad teammates just suddenly started existing post Season 5 Better meta. More diversity in roles and compositions. Longer games and longer teamfights, not what short shitts we have now, freaking 4 seconds teamfights in 20 minute long game for kids that have 5 seconds attention span.
: Can we change the very dated Grivious Wounds indicater PLEASE?
: MORE EMOTE SLOTS!
Can't name less important thing than emotes rn.
: Make TFT Fixed Ratio of Champs instead of this RNG
> [{quoted}](name=SaltyPotatoJhin,realm=EUW,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=v2ZA5Ac2,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-10-21T04:12:33.547+0000) > > Hey, I wanted to say something about this and for the love of God put fixed Ratios for champs in the pool foir the player and not having it shared, that's when RNG comes into play I've been in games where I was forced into a comp, but I was confidant, but then found out someone had more star lvls then I did and I couldnt purchase any other champ because of how bad the traits are, even if I went to that champ comp I wouldnt get 2 star untill I'm nearly dead, it isn't right man > > Side note: This game mode isn't Autism Friendly either, in a sense we are handicapped because we like to stick to a certain object etc. > > YOU NEED TO FIX THIS S@%# Literally everyone who's too lazy to use math: "it's RNG based"
Manivia (NA)
: Being able to make use of bans that teammates don't use.
> [{quoted}](name=Manivia,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=KERiEGw3,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-10-20T20:55:27.988+0000) > > I'm constantly seeing that 1-2 people are opting to not ban any champions, which I feel like should be a team decision and not a ban gone to waste. Is there any way to make it so that if one person chooses not to ban, the team leader would be given an extra ban so that all 5 can be used by the team? Just a thought. That's why no one takes boards seriously. You care about such unimportant things it's unbelieveable.
: The "no option" really should not exist in Ranked. I cannot think of a single instance in which all five players did not have a second champ for a ban, unless they were explicitly playing for fun or doing a "no ban challenge". Just remove the option from Ranked play.
> [{quoted}](name=HonestJohnTheCon,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=KERiEGw3,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-10-21T01:21:47.637+0000) > > The "no option" really should not exist in Ranked. I cannot think of a single instance in which all five players did not have a second champ for a ban, unless they were explicitly playing for fun or doing a "no ban challenge". > > Just remove the option from Ranked play. Good, I will start banning singed then xD
EATARI (NA)
: There is an issue if there’s multiple people who just don’t want to ban anything that day. If the ban has to be passed on, then the banning phase could go on for up to 100 seconds if no one uses a ban. I think this might actually break the client as the two teams could be desynced in champ selection, or otherwise one team could be left twiddling their thumbs for 2 straight minutes. While it’s not likely to happen, it’s important to recognize the possibility. I for one, don’t want to be held hostage in champ select for 100 seconds because a group of 5 in draft pick decided to all pick none 5 times.
> [{quoted}](name=EATARI,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=KERiEGw3,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2019-10-21T05:07:43.366+0000) > > There is an issue if there’s multiple people who just don’t want to ban anything that day. If the ban has to be passed on, then the banning phase could go on for up to 100 seconds if no one uses a ban. I think this might actually break the client as the two teams could be desynced in champ selection, or otherwise one team could be left twiddling their thumbs for 2 straight minutes. While it’s not likely to happen, it’s important to recognize the possibility. I for one, don’t want to be held hostage in champ select for 100 seconds because a group of 5 in draft pick decided to all pick none 5 times. Don't worry, you won't get out of gold even with those extra bans.
: With extra bushes? Extra choke points? Choke points removed? MS buffs throughout the jungle? You think this is going to have a minimal impact on the game?
Game has too much mobility it's unhealthy. Riot: adds drake that gives you movement speed in parts of the map*
: Its sounds like boring and uninteresting gameplay. They might as well show my me teams history before game so I know when to dodge or not lol. The last thing I'd call league if legends is strategic
Yeah League is less strategic cause of idiots on forums who cry that pro play is boring because they suck too much to understand what's happening and their elo is probably equal to silver.
: Also for the spectator experience. Leads to way more unique situations which is more fun to watch than the same ol' same ol'.
Fun to watch for casuals who don't understand the actual complex gameplay and are probably under gold in soloQ. Which is basically majority thus it makes more money.
: > [{quoted}](name=Eleshakai,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=e0aZKe1Y,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2019-04-17T14:59:44.745+0000) > > While I agree with you about their old logo... the big problem with their new logo: There's nothing INTERESTING about it. It's entirely forgettable. > > A logo needs to have SOMETHING about it that stands out to be effective. Even the fist in the logo looks bored. Compared to logos like those below, I don't particularly see the case that it needs to be complicated or have some aspect that stands out and screams in your face to be effective. These are all logos of MAJOR brands, and they all go for sweet, simple, and modern. Riot's new logo mimics most of them, actually, in that it's a pictographic paired with simple text. https://www.upr.org/sites/upr/files/styles/x_large/public/201808/McDonalds-Logo.jpg https://www.logolynx.com/images/logolynx/5b/5bc63fc882d3fa02619c0a702a96c820.png https://1gew6o3qn6vx9kp3s42ge0y1-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/8867.Microsoft_5F00_Logo_2D00_for_2D00_screen.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b3/Taco_Bell_2016.svg/1200px-Taco_Bell_2016.svg.png https://www.gap.com/Asset_Archive/search/logos/Old_Navy.jpg https://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Square-Enix-H1-2019-01-Square-Enix-Logo.jpg
So you are simply telling us that Riot should just have another generic style logo that every other comany has nowdays. You say that Riot shouldn't be unique and should just copy what's popular, that's what you call a downgrade. But it's their decision after all. If riot whishes to lose all the magic they built up from the beginning just for the sake of "freshening" or "updating" design which is actually none of those (I already said it's a downgrade), they can go ahead.
: > [{quoted}](name=iMidg3t,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2J1vUbXp,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2019-10-10T10:33:24.429+0000) > > What if i want to play with my friends who are on EUNE? Should I just spit out 20 euros to transfer there and then spit another 20 euros to go back to EUW because I dont want to play on EUNE except couple of norms every now and then? > > Toxicity isnt caused by smurfing, its caused by toxic people. Sorry to say but it is toxic when you go to a game and know people are lower elo than u and just stomp. You basically made 20-30 minutes of bad game experience for 5 people just because u wanted to smurf. So it is toxic or at least selfish. When you play there are another 9 players who wants to have a nice experience, losing or winning and when a game is not fair like that you made a bad experience happen, you were toxic.
Nah, you are just bunch of nances who will always find something to cry about. New community of league is horrible. People use surrender successfuly 24/7 nowdays which happened to me 3 or 4 times in 2015. It just makes me sad what happened to gamers. Gamers used to try their best and invest a lot of their time into it. Nowdays you just spam as many games asap and you don't even play them because you spend your whole energy and effort on crying instead of trying to beat better players. Your whole mindset is "we lost because of smurf" and that's the end of it. And If you take losing the game as bad experience, you simply misunderstood how the game works. But you will probably cry about game balance If you don't meet the smurfs because god forbid If it was you just sucking and not something else.
: I actually like it tbh, its simple and white and could use some color but i think it looks clean and i like clean. Just my opinion though. EDIT: Before you reply to my comment or any of my other comments please take the time to read the original post and then reread my comment. This is about its appearance not how well it work or whether its useful or not. I am not saying I like the client, I just like the all white look. Thats my opinion. If you disagree with that, fine, but I am not talking about how the client performs in this comment because that it is irrelevant. You wanna talk about how shitty it is? Go ahead but start a new Thread and we can talk about it there.
That's really nice but don't you care that League is losing it's identity more with every design update? You don't look at client and say "yeah, that's League, what else could it be right". Look at the old client from 2013, that's where you are sure you are in League's client.

Get Outscaled

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