Warmas (EUW)
: Dude you talk about how oneshotting, and low time-to-kill is the problem then say "toplane is ok, bruisers are good". The two statements contradict each other, bruisers are the dedicated class of having Damage over time and Damage mitigation over time. They are the role that requires the most for the fights to be longer, Conquerer is the greatest example, It is the waystone that needs most time in combat to be worth it and it is the dedicated bruiser keystone. Tanks are garbage too as the damage is so high even they get oneshotted. Also an ADC main can't complain about getting CC-ed and dying along that time that's how there class works, you shouldn't get CC-ed having the extra range to position and sadly hyper mobility lately, but otherwise right that supports/mages got unreasonable CC time lately (probably to equal out assassin dmg). Also ADCs are very much not weak, they are getting picked on top/mid and bot in competitive for a reason. All in all though you make a point, my guess is that the meta is so toxic because as with the low time to kill more deaths will occur, while especially from a toplane perspective you have to make several trades to lower hp, wait for enemy jungler to leave your side of the map while your ADC died 3 times because they walked into a hook at which point they don't even care anymore.
I didn´t said, bruisers are good without an explenation. I added, that some of them, like darius and renekton (classified as fighters and NOT at assasins) are good, because they can act like an assasin (with less mobility and a bit more tankyness). It´s not unusual for a darius killing an enemy with just a W Q R in lategame, no additional basic attack. Sometimes, it is just W R. So this is high burst, same for renekton. Next, when you look up the healing values of conquerer, they are way lower now, than before the assasin meta (way more than just the factor of conquerer nerf) in my experience. I think conquerer is used, because it fits the playstile during lanephase much better, becaues as meele champion it lasts longer and you get closer on lane while CSing. That tanks are most of the time garbage is a point I already made clear, except for some hyper tanks like a fed orn, who is amlost unkillable -- even as adc, who should be the counter to this class. But IF a tank is so tanky that he doesn´t get killed by assasins, adcs won´t either for sure. Why I complain as adc about getting killed in one cc rotation is a huge number of earlygames, where you are killed during the time of one hook, without a gank. Maybe a hook should make lane really difficult, but it seems way too strong -- way too much coinflip. There isn´t even a jungler needed. Often you get killed in below one second, sometimes without seeing the enemy before. So there isn´t really counterplay. Also a 2/8 Zed, who isn´t the strongest champ atm, with a bad farm, can kill an adc who is in his team. Also adcs are not picked for their consistent damage in lategame but for being oppresive with their range in earlygame + competitive gameplay is not soloQ. And I don´t care if it´s ok in competitve, when my role sucks up to low diamond at least! Btw. Most adcs do care, but their option are not existant once they are hitten a single time. Do you know what i experience in game? Enemy: _got a hook champion_ My support: _stays back to not get hooked_ Me: _either get´s no CS or is very likely to die, cause my support get´s in high danger when pressuring_ _15 minutes later_ Me: _gets flamed by team, cause no items, because no CS_ Playing adc is shit atm, if you don´t play the 3 mainstream adcs (which are sometimes banned)
: its just not fair or fun when you fall behind.. turret plates, first blood tower, being denied farm, getting dived, feels like theres nothing you can do about it. Hence the current ultra high damage snowbally meta to basically shut out the other player from even playing the game, and that causes toxicity. Your opponent isnt just getting ahead, they are putting you behind, so much that you can't come back, or if you can it will be so difficult and take so long you might as well ff and go next.
I think, this is maybe seen to onesided: On the one hand, the turret platngs reward you with more gold, but on the other side, turrets are really more tanky as a result of those. Consider less damage in game by champions. Then turrets are more relevant, cause tower dives can´t be made this fast. As a result, turrets get destroyed much later. Only if you are playing really good as team. In this scenario it would be a very rewarding factor for a well coorinated team and in other cases it enables comebacks for a behind-falling team. So i don´t think turret plates are bad overall. Probaly the damage-overload makes them feel unbalanced.
FSRER (EUNE)
: This is actualy a good and in depth thread. **SEE RIOT, GAMEPLAY+ MATERIAL STILL EXSISTS** And honestly, as a Toplane main, I have to agree on all your points and honestly, If a Rioter came up and adressed these problems like you did, it would restore some of my trust towards this company but you see....**we care more about this game than they fucking do**
Thank you very much... Honestly i never know, if im just a crying adc, cause the meme exists and for some points it is true. Very glad to hear, that finally there is a point, where it´s not just me but a problem in the game :-)
: >So almost every role got some problems in the current state of the game: Caused by a domination of assasins (or better, champion who kill you in one combo in a short amount of time < 3sec) >Tanks: Assasins have high burst, but rather low dps over a long time, so a tank is either not tanky enought to survive the burst, or he is OP cause there is no consitant damage to pressure him. So you are either super OP when ahead or no champion when behind. >Fighters: Tend to be rather good, because some of them got actual burst potential, but their playstile is not the one of a fighter. At least those who are played (Lee Sin, Irelia, Renekton, ...) others like poppy are not seen these days. >Mages: Are good if they have burst like LeBlanc, Katarina, Syndra and so on. Controlmages with continues damage aren´t in a good position. >Marksman: Appart from MissFortune, Aphelios and Senna they are rather bad right now. So why are these 3 good?! Ahhhh - they have burst and oneshot potential. >Supporter: The champs are generall usefull, but it makes no fun, playing with someone on a lane who is mostly irrelevant because he is dead (yes, i play greyscreensimulator atm) Well you obviously have blatant adc favoritism, and it makes sense since you play that role. But understand this, ADC's are gigabroken, which forces other classes to be gigabroken in return to be able to keep adc's in line. What this game needs to go back to a functioning state is a complete rehaul of every single crit / on hit adc. Then afterwards we can lower the damages of the classes that are intended to counter them. Currently if an ADC doesnt get dived and instantly blown up they can mow through an entire team in seconds. Ideally ADC's need to become a caster like class that also has decent damage autos. IMO crit and / or AS should just be completely removed. In turn buff their AD ratios on abilities and slightly lower their cooldowns, in addition to replacement AD CDR items and more AD survivability options ( think stuff like zephyr ). If ADC's don't put out insane DPS and instead just become a mid range AD caster class then there is no longer a necessity for assassins and burst mages to be so far out of line. Also this allows tanks to do their job of tanking damage.
I see your problem in the comments, some adcs deal indeed too much damage. Imagine a full item caitlyn doing a headshot, she can oneshot people by an insane range. BUT i remeber very well that tanks with armor are a good counter to this burst, and even fighters like darius or poppy were really good to counter adcs in a teamfight, as they could pressure the enemy adcs really well. So maybe with more roles in the game, you can decide a fight with good teamplay -- a fight lasting longer than a few seconds, a really interesing fight, not a oneshot. But there are only assasins (and assasins-like adcs) oneshots in current meta. So indeed you problem is real, but i think the way of solving it, is not healthy for the game.
: My personal theory on why more players are being toxic (and I could be wrong, just a theory) is that they have figured out the automatic reporting system. I think it's pretty common knowledge these days what will get you chat restricted and what will get you banned. Saying things like N word, homophobic slur, kys, etc. will get you banned so it's rare to see these types of insults anymore (at least for me). Curse words in general like bitch will get you chat restricted. Otherwise being toxic in a way that doesn't involve common phrases like "you are trash" or "uninstall" will yield no punishment. (Even those phrases may not in all cases). So in essence the toxic community has evolved around the automated system and avoids cursing at you while still being extremely toxic. I think that the automatic system is fundamentally broken. For example we had a player harass our jg the entire game without cursing. Saying they are the worst jg in NA. Wood division, etc. We reported and nothing happened. Another game I'll admit I said bitch but not directed at anyone in particular. Something along the context of "let's fight it out, ending quick is a bitch move" - this was in ARAM. I got chat restricted.. which I would be fine with if those who are toxic but don't curse were equally chat restricted.
Maybe this is an increasing factor, but I don´t know if so many people are having fun flaming others. If flaming really increased (not the ones causing successfull reports), there must be other sources of frustration. But netherless, you are right, the automatic reporting system must be updated.
Rioter Comments
: Kalista jump/rend bug 6.20 (OCE)
Had the same Problem too, sometimes even the direction was wrong. It feeled ugly to Play her and was impossible doing anything great as you got sometimes random jumps and sometimes a jump was much too Long. I know how Kalista passive works, played her often before but this patch i thouhgt i would be just bad, hope this will be patched soon.

Glaukunur

Level 227 (EUW)
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