: That's because they don't actually that to deal with the problem. The last time riot had planned karma changes they canceled them since some of her players got mad at them since they hurt the play style they wanted and riot refuses to accept to fix karma a good amount of her players will be mad at that they do. Karma can't be a tank, enchanter, and a damage mage at the same time since that is how you END UP WITH SHIT LIKE THIS. Karma needs to be focused on one play style and not like 3. For example lux is mainly a burst mage but can be played as a enchanter but that isn't what she is balanced around.
Judging from what they did to Aurelion Sol, I don't think they care about what the champions player base wants.
Riot Pls (NA)
: Future Stories
It would be really interesting to learn more about Bard. I believe he's the only champion without a fleshed out story. I understand that he's supposed to be a big mysterious character, but given the story of Kindred, it's obvious that you can tell a compelling and interesting story, whilst also keeping the mysterious elements of the champion.
: His ID ban was lifted so any accounts that were verified to be his would stop being banned on sight he got nothing returned to him
I never said nor implied that he had any of his accounts unbanned or returned to him, just that he himself was unbanned from playing the game. I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy in how harsh Riot's banning system is, when they actively celebrate Tyler1 who says many of the same things to his team mates on stream.
: T1 did not get a single account unbanned
: > [{quoted}](name=Hard 4 Bard,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=sfRfvkUa,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-11-05T01:06:17.927+0000) > > Welcome to Riot games ladies and gentlemen, where Tyler1 can actively troll on stream playing tank Ahri adc and attack speed Ivern adc, verbally abuse his team and Riot rewards him by inviting him to co host certain official events and include him in the official 10 year anniversary video, but if you dare tell someone you're going to report him more than one time, you get hit with a chat restriction and locked honor for 2 months. :^) ...... right, nothing says I love you like being one of only two players ID banned.
Except they then unbanned him... and he was still toxic and then they praised him with rewards. I have literally nothing against Tyler, but if they're going to promote him and his stream, then they cannot ban the players who are doing literally the same things as him.
: Unfair punishment towards victims of dishonorable behavior
Welcome to Riot games ladies and gentlemen, where Tyler1 can actively troll on stream playing tank Ahri adc and attack speed Ivern adc, verbally abuse his team and Riot rewards him by inviting him to co host certain official events and include him in the official 10 year anniversary video, but if you dare tell someone you're going to report him more than one time, you get hit with a chat restriction and locked honor for 2 months. :^)
: They banned Dunkey for being toxic. And when he wanted to be unbanned to finish his [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjzgbZL12VI), they told him that it isn't going to happen because he is toxic. Since then, they have parted ways. I don't see them remembering him in good faith for what he _did_ compared to who _are_, right now. Tyler1 is the perfect poster boy for all the toxic players out there. Once a toxic player who went through 22 banned accounts. To now, someone who is minting money while promoting League of Legends on Twitch. Lots of people who _are_ or _used_ to be toxic may be on their way to being _reformed_ while watching their favorite idol on twitch. He is an inspiration for those who have anger issues and play League. It works because they want less toxicity, less reports and less of a headache. Can you imagine the number of reports they probably get daily?! All the work force required to sort this out? And you guys are forgetting one thing! The reason why Tyler1 got unbanned was not only because of the player support but because of that one Riot employee who was snitched out for calling tyler1 a _homunculus_ on discord. Its quite rare for Riot to otherwise unban toxic players, especially streamers. I guess, Tyler1 should be indirectly grateful to that ex(?) Riot Employee or else he wouldn't be here today. Famous on twitch? Yes. But on Riot events, Riot's 10 year anniversary or with increasing number of viewers on twitch? Nope! So, in conclusion. Unlike Dunkey who is still banned and not playing League at all, Tyler1 never gave up on trying to play his favorite game despite being toxic. Given, he was really lucky and that one unfortunate Riot employee ended up being mince meat for allowing him back in with a clean slate as a way to make up for what he was called by someone representing their company. He has since worked his way through and done his best to be as reformed as possible. I think that he did deserve it. He just loves the game.
> > Tyler1 is the perfect poster boy for all the toxic players out there. Once a toxic player who went through 22 banned accounts. To now, someone who is minting money while promoting League of Legends on Twitch. Lots of people who _are_ or _used_ to be toxic may be on their way to being _reformed_ while watching their favorite idol on twitch. He is an inspiration for those who have anger issues and play League. > What kind of argument is this? Tyler1 isn't reformed? He still regularly flames and trolls hims teammates live.
: > [{quoted}](name=Hard 4 Bard,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ctTQYfVa,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2019-10-30T03:08:47.500+0000) > > You're in a catch 22. Are popular champions because they get so many skins, or do they get so many skins because they're popular. I think there are so many champions that COULD be popular if given more skins. The champions were popular before they got skins (if you were to have been around / do research for patches before these champions had tons of skins like they do today). This is not a catch 22.
> [{quoted}](name=The23rdGamer,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ctTQYfVa,comment-id=000700000001,timestamp=2019-10-30T17:20:09.292+0000) > > The champions were popular before they got skins (if you were to have been around / do research for patches before these champions had tons of skins like they do today). This is not a catch 22. There is absolutely no way for you to know cor sure whether it is or not. Would Jinx have remained this popular for so long if she’d not gotten so many skins? Would Syndra have been as popular as Ahri if she had the same number of skins as her? Unless you’re from an alternate timeline where this is the case then there’s no way for you to know for sure
: I feel like riot is stuck in a positive feedback loop where all their cool new skins are for champions that are "popular", but really they sell skins because they receive all the new skins that are cool and have more effects. I feel like if they were to crank out skins for unpopular champions at the rate they do for popular champions they would make unpopular champions into popular champions.
> [{quoted}](name=Jeanne fan club,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ctTQYfVa,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-10-30T00:27:37.652+0000) > > I feel like riot is stuck in a positive feedback loop where all their cool new skins are for champions that are "popular", but really they sell skins because they receive all the new skins that are cool and have more effects. I feel like if they were to crank out skins for unpopular champions at the rate they do for popular champions they would make unpopular champions into popular champions. You're in a catch 22. Are popular champions because they get so many skins, or do they get so many skins because they're popular. I think there are so many champions that COULD be popular if given more skins.
: Huge skin potential for certain champions wasted, just because [yasuo] gotta be in every skin line
Arcade Yasuo is the most disappointing skin released in such a long time. Battle Boss skins make MUCH more sense on monster champions and both Vel'Koz and Xerath would fit the theme perfectly. Yasuo literally does not have the particles or model to convincingly make him look like he belongs in the skin line and he really doesn't. He just looks like a dark blue chroma.
: I main support. Didn't really like pyke all that much, hardly play him. But I get where you're coming from with this post. I'm really skeptical about her ult, the middle beam is just like Lux's and gives you time to move, but the like 150-200 shield is a bit much since it takes up an entire lane and then some. Her passive scales with AD so I'm hoping the ult is an AP scale and the rest of her abilities will be AD but generally speaking most heals scale with AP so she looks like a hybrid champ...which is a mess. Her E on the other hand is an entirely different beast, untargetable allies for 5-6 seconds from the video. In the hands of pro players or someone who knows what their doing can make her E extremely toxic just like Akali's shroud. But the cons are you can still hit them with abilities which is a bait to 4 people grouping in her mist. Can't really say much else about her, as I'm waiting for her to be released on PBE after maintenance. Definite ban for the first weeks until they get her scaling right tho.
Until she presses E and you can't shunpo on top of anyone. D:
Naalith (NA)
: Great, another interesting new champion that's gonna be deleted due to pro play
Qiyana to a lesser extent? She's just as problematic as a lot of the other recent releases. She has an almost 100% pick/ban rate at worlds this year.
Arakadia (NA)
: To be fair the whole point of skins is to do something different, especially considering Dark Star is an AU and skins don't have to follow main lore.
True and it's not unheard of for Riot to change a champion's thematic and switch it on its head for a skin.
: I like how riot is refusing to even talk about the real issue with this game
Which in turn promotes more toxicity. I personally believe that everyone suffering equally from a loss is what promotes toxicity the most from the player base. Oh, you went 12/0/11 in your game? 100 cs above your lane opponent? Roamed around the map and got several other lanes ahead? But your adc died once, typed ‘support difference’ in all chat then went afk, losing you the game? Well now you both lose roughly the same amount of LP, depending on MMR, and you just know that the adc player likely won’t get punished, if he doesn’t do this regularly, even if you submit a ticket to Riot support asking for a human to investigate the issue. Even third party websites such as OP.GG have developed a system which tracks each player’s overall impact on the game in relation to each other, but for some reason this is too hard for Riot? Guess they’re too busy farting in each other’s faces and releasing skins.
Violett (NA)
: When is Bard getting another skin?
Dark Star Bard may be a little contradictory to his lore, but at this point I’m willing to take anything for him.
Bevdog101 (OCE)
: Tips on countering Zed ult
What role are you speaking from? Zhonya's hourglass is probably the biggest counter to Zed in the game and any champion that can pick it up can easily counter his ult. Kai'Sa is the best ADC pick into Zed as she can reliably build this item without a significant drop in her DPS, not to mention her stealth and shield are also huge counters to the champion. Alternatively, exhaust is an extremely powerful rune at combating his all ins, so if you're playing support it might be a wise choice to take this rune, though beware this does come at the expense of a lot of early game pressure. A big part of Zed's ult is that it ALWAYS puts him directly behind his target, so if you have some form of CC, aim it behind the target for the highest chance at CC'ing him before he is able to assassinate his target.
: > [{quoted}](name=Hard 4 Bard,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=MxpQfTQQ,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2019-10-20T03:14:52.359+0000) > > This is arguably the most dynamic meta we’ve seen in many years and most likely the most dynamic meta we’ll ever see again. Mages in every role, adc’s going mid and top, Garen getting played in the bot lane. Sure it’s a far cry from what it was, but it miles above what is was last year. I'd agree with you in terms of champ viability and style of laning sure. But I'm talking about overall win condition. Like there was something so awesome about having 2 teams load into the rift, and you can tell just from their comps that they are going to be playing two completely different games. Like their methods/goals hardly overlap at all. THAT's what I want to see come back.
> [{quoted}](name=Whisper87,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=MxpQfTQQ,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2019-10-21T13:19:41.659+0000) > > I'd agree with you in terms of champ viability and style of laning sure. But I'm talking about overall win condition. Like there was something so awesome about having 2 teams load into the rift, and you can tell just from their comps that they are going to be playing two completely different games. Like their methods/goals hardly overlap at all. > > THAT's what I want to see come back. That’s very true. Every team nowadays is just to wait for one guy to land some CC and for the rest of the team to just dog pile onto that person. Rinse and repeat.
: Can we please have a dynamic meta again?
This is arguably the most dynamic meta we’ve seen in many years and most likely the most dynamic meta we’ll ever see again. Mages in every role, adc’s going mid and top, Garen getting played in the bot lane. Sure it’s a far cry from what it was, but it miles above what is was last year.
: > [{quoted}](name=Hard 4 Bard,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=ym1kAkLA,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-10-18T19:41:27.096+0000) > > Bard is more closely tied to Ionia than Mount Targon. Only cause we've only seen him there. I'd like to think he's been all over Runeterra averting the course of disaster.
> [{quoted}](name=mrmeddyman,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=ym1kAkLA,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-10-19T09:07:58.004+0000) > > Only cause we've only seen him there. I'd like to think he's been all over Runeterra averting the course of disaster. True. He likely has been all over Runeterra. Ionia is just the one that we 100% know about
Terozu (NA)
: ...How? He was introduced as a Targonian constellation. And comes from the spirit realms.
> [{quoted}](name=Terozu,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=ym1kAkLA,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-18T22:10:37.170+0000) > > ...How? > He was introduced as a Targonian constellation. And comes from the spirit realms. He was introduced as a constellation over Bard Mountain, a location in Ionia. He is a celestial, though his origins are largely unknown. We'd need to know if Targon represents all celestials or just a handful of them.
: well lets wait and see when they start touching up on Mount Targon again. I'm not in the same boat however. I'm loving and want more focus on Ionia and more specifically I cant wait to have more Ahri lore. Even if it's just an encounter, It would be nice to see her give them accurate directions in the Arcane anime because she happened to be traveling through piltover.
> [{quoted}](name=CourtWizardAhri,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=ym1kAkLA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-10-18T19:14:32.428+0000) > > well lets wait and see when they start touching up on Mount Targon again. I'm not in the same boat however. I'm loving and want more focus on Ionia and more specifically I cant wait to have more Ahri lore. Even if it's just an encounter, It would be nice to see her give them accurate directions in the Arcane anime because she happened to be traveling through piltover. Bard is more closely tied to Ionia than Mount Targon.
: Bard Wants A Skin
It genuinely makes no sense to me given the huge amount of mileage they got out of Snowday Bard. Not only was the skin super cute and widely regarded as the best Bard skin, but also where the Pengu and Featherknight Little Legend originated from.
: Riot Game Developers Don't Know What To Do With Karma. It's Their Fault Though.
It genuinely baffles me why they’re making so many skins for a champion they refuse to allow to be viable for more than 1 patch.
Jesi Oni (EUNE)
: Maybe because Jungler should farm jungle and occasionally gank instead of babysitting lanes occasionally farming? 🤔
> [{quoted}](name=Jesi Oni,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EcqG0XLA,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-10-16T12:55:18.332+0000) > > Maybe because Jungler should farm jungle and occasionally gank instead of babysitting lanes occasionally farming? 🤔 Huh? That's what I'm suggesting they do. Nerfing the jungle exp pushes them towards purely ganking.
Quáx (NA)
: Correct me if I'm mistaken (and frankly I might be). But I saw them say that they slightly toned down the krug camp and upped the xp on gromp so that jungle could hit 3 off of any side they started on.
> [{quoted}](name=Quáx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EcqG0XLA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-10-16T12:45:31.029+0000) > > Correct me if I'm mistaken (and frankly I might be). But I saw them say that they slightly toned down the krug camp and upped the xp on gromp so that jungle could hit 3 off of any side they started on. At first I was hopeful they were tweaking jungle exp to make farming more viable to an extent, however when they were talking about lane exp they said this: 'We’re increasing base minion XP slightly so solo laners level a bit faster, and we’re reducing the amount of bonus XP generated when allies share XP so bot lane levels a bit more slowly. We're also slightly decreasing jungle XP.' So it seems that jungle exp is getting nerfed as a whole.
Rioter Comments
: Aurelion Sol's play rate keeps dropping after (mini-)rework
The fact that Garen jungle is currently picked more than Aurelion Sol in the mid lane just goes to show how much they truly ruined this champion.
: “fIoRa iS GoNna bE bRokeN”
Her pick rate also improved drastically, which goes to show that a lot of the people playing Fiora likely don't know how to play her well enough offsetting what the buffs gave her. I believe most of the complaints against the Fiora buffs were not that they'd necessarily make her OP, rather that they're buffing a champion that so few people like playing against.
Dasdi96 (NA)
: Having a high skillcap is not a weakness.
This is honestly a worrying trend that is starting to leak into almost every single one of their recent champion designs. Making them obscenely hard to master, then acting surprised when they are weak in low elo and monstrous in high elo.
macspam (NA)
: It feels like the only viable junglers are pemaganking tanks
Perma ganking in general is the only way to play jungle atm and it's not limited to tanks. Lee Sin, Kha'Zix, Xin Zhao, Jarvan etc. all fall victim to this play style and it's honestly the thing that's ruining the game for me atm. Laning properly is almost impossible when you always have to account for a potential jungler coming and ruining your day and truly takes a lot of skill out of the game. The worst part is that it's a lose lose situation. Junglers hate the current state of jungle because they can't really carry themselves, they just act as a second support to get their team fed, whilst laners hate it because they can't really play aggressively and snowball a lead 1v1 (2v2 in bot lane's case) because the threat of a jungler is always imminent.
: Is there anything that The Watchers could be afraid of?
: New Bard/Zac skin?
It surprises me that Bard hasn't been given more skins considering how much money they made from Snowday Bard, with the Pengu emotes and Little Legends, that originated from this skin.
: [Lore Question] Which would be stronger, A targonian Aspect or Xerath.
It depends on the Aspect. Given that someone such as Aatrox could beat Pantheon, it’s likely that Xerath could too, but someone such as Zoe? I doubt it.
: Do you want me to list the other supports that can do that to?
> [{quoted}](name=boricCentaur1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NcyYFg5E,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-09-15T11:56:49.019+0000) > > Do you want me to list the other supports that can do that to? There are quite literally no other supports who can stealth and move away with this much movement speed and regenerate most of their health, but go ahead
Nasakeki (NA)
: My idea on how to make Yuumi more interactive and less "toxic"
This is what she needs. An actual update to her kit instead of straight up nerfs. Maybe make her W a toggle to greatly weaken her insanely safe laning phase and make her prioritise building mana if she wants to be the hyper scaling machine she is, kind of like Sona.
JTR0N (NA)
: the client is fixed
Just today I lost a ranked game because the client wouldn't let me lock in a champion. The client is far from fixed.
Zed genius (EUNE)
: Where are you trying to go with this?
> [{quoted}](name=Zed genius,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=EWuo8TlZ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-09-13T22:14:40.973+0000) > > Where are you trying to go with this? I’m assuming he’s in reference to all the insane buffs to flashy champions on the PBE. Champs like Vayne, Fiora and Riven are getting buffed in a blatant attempt to push these champions into pro play, however this is unlikely going to work as pro play prioritises safe champions above risky and flashy ones.
: when ARAM buffs/nerfs don't make any sense
and Kai'Sa gets a damage increase?
Nasakeki (NA)
: Just delete Yuumi, please.
She straight up needs game play tweaks, not just nerfs. She is going to reach a 20% win rate in solo queue before she doesn't become pick/ban in pro play.
Noraver (NA)
: Proposed Nami Tweak
Nami isn't a support that's supposed to be great at engages? She's already very strong with consistent heals, a damage steroid for her ADC and some good CC to help peel for her team. If her engage was godlike too then she'd just completely overshadow every other support.
: We knew how Kai'sa would turn out.
Kai'Sa's problem is literally not having any weaknesses. She is simply good at literally everything an ADC is supposed to do and even excellent in some areas.
: > [{quoted}](name=Hard 4 Bard,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Eqt05MuY,comment-id=00000001000100000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-09-09T02:27:33.001+0000) > > But, you do keep up with modern League, you have proven this. Are you expecting me to explain to you what a MOBA is as well? My replies are to directly answer you individually and are not in any way meant to garner any additional support what I believe in. My original statement already has received a fair share of up-votes (I posted something similar on a similar topic that has also garnered considerable support) whereas you've garnered almost exclusively down-votes, so it would appear taking advice on you on gaining support is much like taking advice from a fish on how to climb trees. If you truly didn't keep up to date with modern League at all, then you have no right to argue about the current state of champion design in League of Legends. > > It's extremely easy to see that champions such as Galio, Irelia, Sylas, Yuumi. Akali etc. were released in an overloaded state by how all of them have had considerable parts of their kit removed. Galio no longer gives resistances to his ult target or can flash during his W. Akali's lost her true stealth, sustain and stun on her ult come next patch. Irelia's W no longer reduces physical damage, her passive no longer does more damage to shields and her ult no longer disarms enemies. Yuumi's passive no longer restores mana. Sylas E now only gives a magic shield. These are just a few examples of recent champions straight up having massive parts of their kits completely removed due to how strong they were. Unless you wish to argue that Riot also hates these champions and they too want to see them gutted. Just go back and watch some of the newer champion spotlights and see just how few of them actually still make sense. > > Pro players are the best of the best. They play for money, a lot of money. Their livelihoods depend on them playing well and winning. They play the best champions and they play them to their highest ability. If a champion boats a 100% pick and ban rate in competitive play, then they are broken, no ifs, ands or buts about it. It appears YOU are in the absolute minority when it comes to this as Riot themselves also believe in this philosophy, as they ALWAYS nerf champions based around pro play, so arguing that they're not broken is a moot point. Also, your rule 34 argument is an actual logical fallacy, as League of Legends pro play is in no way related to, or is the circumstance, similar to this. > > I am going to assume you are trolling by this point, as it really doesn't take many IQ points to realise the correlation between ban rates and tilt. For what other reason would so many players perma ban a champion with a 42% win rate for? With such a win rate it's hard to argue that she's overpowered or that she acts as a hard counter to so many champions. If she truly hard countered so many champions then logically her win rate would have been higher. You aren't a counter to someone if you lose the game anyway. The simply answer is because she pissed people off. Sure, you'd probably win the game, but you wouldn't have any fun doing so. > > And I'd say that most people ban champions that they dislike playing against, rather than the highest win/pick rate champions (which would make the most logical sense if you're just aiming to win). According to U.GG none of the highest win rate champions or pick rate champions are also the most banned champions, which leads us to the logical conclusion that the majority of people DO ban the champions they dislike playing against. As a Bard OTP, I perma ban Yuumi. Not because she acts as a hard counter to me. Not because she has a high pick/win rate. Not because I think I'll lose to her 100% of the time, but because I utterly detest playing against her. > > Arguing with you is absolutely pointless. You are completely disregarding simple logic and asking for tests and 'proof' of correlations that simply can't be explained by one League player that doesn't have the time, nor patience to conduct an extensive survey to find the correlation between champion bans and tilt. The point of my original argument was not to do Riot's job for them, or to claim that I could do a better job, just that there are things Riot could do to reduce tilt from their end. this refusal to provide evidence and assumption that by petitioning you can bring about change is why people mock our modern approach to change. It is also one of the biggest reasons why gaming industries refuse to take advice from their audience because quite simply put - while 1 player doesn't have the money, the time, or the desire to conduct these surveys large corporate businesses do. It's fine to have an opinion, but until you justify your opinion as fact then it will only ever be an opinion - it doesn't matter how many players rally behind you. If a game company is paying a psychologist or some sort of community relations development group to find out what the community thinks based on surveys and algorithms then you're competing with that. the reason riot creates content is for monetization purposes first and foremost. That is the purpose of a business. The more profit can be gained the more will be gained. it's that simple. content licensing and digital content goes beyond the scope of what the law of supply and demand can rationalize. If their study groups deem it plausible for A over B in terms of consumer relationships or determine that A earns the same profit as B with less effort then the parent company is going to obviously go with the choice that gains them more profit for less effort. You're free to assume whatever you want, but if this is an attempt at undermining my argument by calling my character into question then that's a bit petty. There's nothing wrong with admitting that you don't know the truth when it comes to statistical values. There's also nothing wrong with expressing concern based on personal experience or feeling, but when you blatantly use examples that do not correlate and try to pass it off as fact that's concerning. --------------- tilt is described as: Tilt meaning gaming A gaming term that means a player is aggravated to the point of not being able to fully concentrate on the game at hand; instead, he is thinking about how mad he is; often tilted players will do aggressive and rash things. as per the wikipedia page it is also described as: Tilt Poker Tilt originated as a poker term for a state of mental or emotional confusion or frustration in which a player adopts a less than optimal strategy, usually resulting in the player becoming over-aggressive. Tilting is closely associated with another poker term, "steam". --------- wikipedia goes on to explain common causes of tilt Common Causes of Tilt The most common cause of tilt is losing, especially being defeated in a particularly public and humiliating fashion. In poker, a bad beat can upset the mental equilibrium essential for optimal poker judgment, causing frustration. Another common cause of tilt is bad manners from other players causing frustration which eventually leads to tilting. Though not as commonly acknowledged or discussed, it is also quite possible to go on "winner's tilt" as a result of a positive trigger: such as winning a unexpectedly, or going on a string of good luck. Strong positive emotions can be just as dizzying and detrimental to one's play as negative ones. Tilting and winner's tilt can both lead to the same habits. ------------------ This definition of tilt is the same as the one used in video game terminology. If we take this definition and apply it to league and relate how it is expressed in league then we can identify certain points that are to blame for players tilting. 1. losing - this is a game mechanic that is created by creating competition in a game where score or similar stats are tallied and compared. 2. public humiliation - this is a game mechanic that is attributed to online gaming. This can also be expanded upon to include public figures streaming or professional players playing live matches for entertainment 3. frustration - Frustration originates from feelings of uncertainty and insecurity which stems from a sense of inability to fulfill needs. If the needs of an individual are blocked, uneasiness and frustration are more likely to occur. - wikipedia 4. bad manners leading to frustration - this can be read as poor sportsmanship. or "abusive banter" - gg ez. and of course winner's tilt which is not worth explaining, but basically that's "scarred veteran" in a nutshell. ------------- so with that defined the points I want to emphasize are game mechanics. If league of legends is to remain a competitive moba then public humiliation and losing are going to happen. That's a fact. Riot cannot remove those 2 facets of tilt. And they've tried to reinforce the idea that it's okay to lose because that just means you can grow and do better next time. After that we have frustration which is caused by insecurity and uncertainty - this goes back to what I was talking about earlier when I mentioned that players create fears and those fears turn into phobias due to lack of knowledge or lack of skill. It's not poor design or a lack of balance that makes champions like akali receive their 100% ban/pick rates, but information overload that causes champions like Akali, like yuumi, like galio, like yasuo, like zed, etc. to be hated or scorned by the community. These aren't bad designs, but there's so much to learn and account for in a game that already has 145 champions, 200+ items, and 5 entire rune tree sets that people just freeze up and become frustrated when something doesn't make sense to them. New character, new feature? not even on PBE yet? someone automatically thinks it's busted. going beyond characters lets talk about the queue - people tilt in queue because they're UNCERTAIN of their teammates due to the mass amount of metathesiophobia in our general population.
I'm sorry, I didn't realise you were the head of the design and balance teams at Riot. I wasn't aware that you, as an individual, had the ability to implement all the changes that I suggested should I provide you with some statistics. Oh wait, you're not, and you don't have such an ability, therefore your argument is completely irrelevant in this scenario. I never stated my opinions as facts, however if the community rallies behind an idea, then it is wise for a company that relies on these players to adhere to what they want. That's simply smart business practise and given how League of Legends supposedly made 700 million dollars less in 2018 compared to 2017, now would be a smart idea to listen to the cries of the player base. Calling me petty for bringing your character into question is almost as petty as you insulting other people on the boards for their supposed lack of an ability to speak English. Tilt, in LoL, originates from many different aspects, many of which originate from the player. I've already acknowledged this - I said that Riot can probably never get rid of tilt entirely, however the point of my argument is that Riot also has to take some of the responsibility, as there are also things they can do to better prevent tilt and toxicity in their game - less overloaded champion designs, a better in game report system (knowing that someone who intentionally fed or trolled has been properly punished is probably one of the most reassuring feelings in the entirety of this game) and an autofill system with more of the quirks ironed out. I feel as though arguing about champion balance with you is kind of redundant at this point as the difference in our ranks paint a clear picture on who has a better understanding of the meta, especially as you're obviously completely deluded as to what determines balance in LoL. The fact you can sit here and claim that Akali and Yuumi are not fundamentally broken, despite all evidence suggesting they means continuing to argue about this topic is completely pointless.
: > [{quoted}](name=Hard 4 Bard,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Eqt05MuY,comment-id=000000010001000000000001,timestamp=2019-09-08T21:55:31.655+0000) > > If you keep up with modern League even in the slightest then you'll be aware of the current balancing nightmares a lot of modern champions are proving to be. As I stated, there is a long list of champions who've been released the past couple of years who have been regular visitors to the patch notes with both buffs and nerfs and still haven't found a way to exist in the game without being either over or under performing. I really don't care to find every single buff and nerf to each of these champions and I highly doubt you want to read through all of this so it seems like rather a pointless endeavor to partake in. > > However as a brief summary, champions like Qiyana and Yuumi have received nerf after nerf after nerf and are still sitting at an almost 100% pick and ban rate in competitive play, whereas champions like Galio and Akali have received buff after nerf after buff after nerf. If this doesn't prove that these champions are unbalanceable then I'm not sure what will convince you otherwise. In the past, assassins were balanced through their distinct lack of reliable CC and generally being single target focused. At best they'd have a single target CC ability that required some sort of previous set up (such as Rengar's E) or were tied to some sort of a delay (Fizz R or LB E). Riot's newest assassin, Qiyana, has AoE CC not only on her basic abilities, but also a game changing AoE ult akin to Orianna or Kennen. > > Whilst pro play is indeed different to solo queue, it's ridiculous to assume that a champion with a 100% presence in pro play is anything but broken. However this argument is moot, the community utterly hates the new Akali, you said it yourself. This proves my original point - that recent champion designs tilt the community. Akali certainly isn't the only champion where this is the case. Sylas, Yuumi, Irelia and Qiyana all have high ban rates, despite their abysmal win rates. What more proof do you need that suggests these champions tilt people? Let's assume that I don't keep up with modern league. if that is the basis of how you attempt to garner support then your argument is defeated before it even begins. The task of making points, backing those points up with evidence, and explaining how change should be best brought about falls on the shoulders of the person asking for change. There has to be something more. You don't have to give every example. Start with a single champion or a pair of champions and list some changes that you feel show how unbalanced a champion is. If you truly support your argument and want others to do so as well then there should never be a moment where you're like "this is pointless". Any amount of data that shows your side's point is worth at least including small sample sizes of for clarification. It's also unfair to your audience that is interested in hearing what you have to say to just assume that they don't want to. It weakens your stance. As for your brief summary - you listed galio, yuumi, qiyana, and akali as examples. you stated that these champions have received buffs and nerfs or just constant nerfs since their release and/or re-release, but if we look at what those patchnotes actually look like you notice that the amount of times akali has been patched since re-release is actually far less than her original. Or if we look at a champion like fiddlesticks who has not been re-released or received any major overhauls fiddlesticks during a single year received over 15 patches. And that was during a time when the game was wayyyyyyyy simpler. IF patch inflation was a thing that'd be about 20-30 patches a year or more. The fact of the matter is that new champions AND re-released champions need time to settle before they fit into the mesh like everything else and that comes from little tweaks and bug fixes. A patch doesn't indicate imbalance. A character could be 100% balanced and just not be balanced in the way that is desired at that time. Then there are also other factors that can affect whether or not something is balanced - for example the addition of a new champion. As stated above - the best way for you to prove to me or anyone that a champion is imbalanced is by creating a power budget and comparing that champion's power budget to similar champions. Bringing up the past is irrelevant. The past is the past. In the past there were 43 champions. Now there are 145. runes and masteries have changed, the map has changed, the item shop has changed. We're not trying to go back to the rose tinted wonderland of yesteryear. The point that you're trying to prove to me is not that the old assassins were balance. If I told you that older cars were better because they were made of steel and were cheap to own and easy to work on and that's why I think gas prices should go back to 10 cents a gallon you'd look at me like I was insane. This is the same concept that you've presented me. and finally to your last part about pro play - actually by definition it is literally insane to assume that every champion with 100% ban rate is automatically broken. Logically speaking it is impossible for a 1 to 1 equivalence just by simple law of probability. what you're presenting is known as a logical fallacy. So if your point is to argue that champion design is related to player interaction then allow me to play devil's advocate and ask you how? because you've yet to give a single reason why it's related. You've talked a lot about what you consider to be valid examples to base balance decisions on and you've also brought up the idea of pick/ban rates, but how does that determine player interaction? Why does akali not being liked tilt players? How are the ban rates related to the tilt rates? How are we to blame riot for their designs if it is the consumers who are the ones causing the problems? How can an artist know that their manga character is going to be used for illegal rule34? And why should that artist bear in the responsibility of someone else's actions that the artist had no control over?
But, you do keep up with modern League, you have proven this. Are you expecting me to explain to you what a MOBA is as well? My replies are to directly answer you individually and are not in any way meant to garner any additional support what I believe in. My original statement already has received a fair share of up-votes (I posted something similar on a similar topic that has also garnered considerable support) whereas you've garnered almost exclusively down-votes, so it would appear taking advice on you on gaining support is much like taking advice from a fish on how to climb trees. If you truly didn't keep up to date with modern League at all, then you have no right to argue about the current state of champion design in League of Legends. It's extremely easy to see that champions such as Galio, Irelia, Sylas, Yuumi. Akali etc. were released in an overloaded state by how all of them have had considerable parts of their kit removed. Galio no longer gives resistances to his ult target or can flash during his W. Akali's lost her true stealth, sustain and stun on her ult come next patch. Irelia's W no longer reduces physical damage, her passive no longer does more damage to shields and her ult no longer disarms enemies. Yuumi's passive no longer restores mana. Sylas E now only gives a magic shield. These are just a few examples of recent champions straight up having massive parts of their kits completely removed due to how strong they were. Unless you wish to argue that Riot also hates these champions and they too want to see them gutted. Just go back and watch some of the newer champion spotlights and see just how few of them actually still make sense. Pro players are the best of the best. They play for money, a lot of money. Their livelihoods depend on them playing well and winning. They play the best champions and they play them to their highest ability. If a champion boats a 100% pick and ban rate in competitive play, then they are broken, no ifs, ands or buts about it. It appears YOU are in the absolute minority when it comes to this as Riot themselves also believe in this philosophy, as they ALWAYS nerf champions based around pro play, so arguing that they're not broken is a moot point. Also, your rule 34 argument is an actual logical fallacy, as League of Legends pro play is in no way related to, or is the circumstance, similar to this. I am going to assume you are trolling by this point, as it really doesn't take many IQ points to realise the correlation between ban rates and tilt. For what other reason would so many players perma ban a champion with a 42% win rate for? With such a win rate it's hard to argue that she's overpowered or that she acts as a hard counter to so many champions. If she truly hard countered so many champions then logically her win rate would have been higher. You aren't a counter to someone if you lose the game anyway. The simply answer is because she pissed people off. Sure, you'd probably win the game, but you wouldn't have any fun doing so. And I'd say that most people ban champions that they dislike playing against, rather than the highest win/pick rate champions (which would make the most logical sense if you're just aiming to win). According to U.GG none of the highest win rate champions or pick rate champions are also the most banned champions, which leads us to the logical conclusion that the majority of people DO ban the champions they dislike playing against. As a Bard OTP, I perma ban Yuumi. Not because she acts as a hard counter to me. Not because she has a high pick/win rate. Not because I think I'll lose to her 100% of the time, but because I utterly detest playing against her. Arguing with you is absolutely pointless. You are completely disregarding simple logic and asking for tests and 'proof' of correlations that simply can't be explained by one League player that doesn't have the time, nor patience to conduct an extensive survey to find the correlation between champion bans and tilt. The point of my original argument was not to do Riot's job for them, or to claim that I could do a better job, just that there are things Riot could do to reduce tilt from their end.
: > [{quoted}](name=Hard 4 Bard,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Eqt05MuY,comment-id=0000000100010000,timestamp=2019-09-08T19:56:18.025+0000) > > Well look at the patch notes. Champions like the ones I listed have been in patch after patch after patch and are still proving to be massive balance problems. At her worst Akali sat at a 42% win rate with an 80% ban rate a close to 100% pick ban rate in competitive play. > > I'm not stating that the current autofill needs to be removed, just that the features I mentioned would go a long way in improving it and preventing people tiling over factors entirely out of their control. One of the most commonly upvoted comments on the boards is about removing autofill entirely and whilst I understand that's a poor option, I do definitely agree that Riot could do more to help make it more forgiving. > > I absolutely know that the players themselves are to blame for a lot of their actions, but I don't believe Riot is innocent in all of this. For years players have asked Riot to disable new and reworked champions in ranked for a few days, yet Riot hasn't listened and it's utterly infuriating. so... typically when trying to convince someone who believes there's nothing wrong with the way things are the person presenting the argument for change is tasked with providing evidence as to why that change is better. and as the person defending the "now" all that person has to do is just rebuttal and question the proposed change. ------------ so with that being said it is not my job to look at the patch notes. you should be capable of summarizing those patch notes to some degree in favor of your stance so that I can either agree or disagree. otherwise - if you don't care about the argument you're making enough to see it through then how could you expect anyone else to care at all? you mention pick rate vs ban rate with akali as your example. You say that akali had a 42% win rate with an 80% ban rate, but those numbers do not support your argument. What those numbers tell me is that even when akali is losing most of her games she's still getting banned. That doesn't tell me she's broken. that tells me that there is a bias in the community against akali. As far as her pick/ban rate being 100% - that still doesn't confirm her as being unbalanced because competitive play is very different from standardized play. If you're trying to convince me that akali isn't balanced then come up with a power budget for her champion class - assassin. And compare her power budget to those in her class. If her power budget is similar to those in her class then you will have something to bring to the table that is noteworthy. All ban, pick, win, and loss rates tell me is how the community feels about a champion. It doesn't provide any actual information about the champion's power budget. and I assume that when you're referring to balance you're referring to power budget. If riot released a skin that caused ashe to flash red;blue;white;red;blue;white;etc. at a rate of 7 frames attributed to 1 color and 60 frames per second for the animation that skin would cause people to have seizures. That champion would be disliked by a majority of the playerbase and would likely be banned 100% of the time because of the annoying skin. That doesn't necessarily mean that ashe is unbalanced, but a 100% ban/pick rate would exist until riot either fixed the skin or disabled the skin. okay here's another example. Zed Middle 50.09% 4.83% 3.99% 6.70 these numbers represent what zed's win rate, play rate, ban rate, and average number of games played by playerbase are. if we compare these to akali you get this Middle 46.44% 4.55% 4.85% 7.93 her numbers show me that she's losing more games being played less getting banned more and that players on average play her more than zed. but these numbers don't add up to what you're saying. if akali was overpowered then she should be winning more games than zed because she's banned more than zed right? she's also played by more players than zed too so where are the numbers to support that? -------------- okay so as you can see these numbers don't tell you any definitive causation in regards to balance. what these numbers allow is for an average player to guess at how beneficial it would be to pick up a new champion. These numbers are meant to inform players about the banning trends and then the potential for that champion to aid in a win. Ban/Pick is just that. A trend. Has nothing at all to do with balance. We know this because any time a new champion is released or an old champion is reworked the player base indiscriminately bans that champion without knowing if the champion is balanced or not. And ban/pick is more or less determined by onsets of phobias caused by fans and pros alike not having enough knowledge about the game to say why something is the way it is. We see it all the time where a professional streamer complains about a feature and explains it so vaguely or misinforms their audience and that snowball extends to the community as a whole. In the case of Tyler1 - and I only pick this player because he's easy to use for this example - we all know that Tyler1 was a Draven 1 trick. Ban/Pick rates could be used by Tyler1 to know if it is worth it to continue 1 tricking Draven or if he should pick up a secondary champion because Draven is consistently getting banned. If Tyler1 wanted an easy to use champion then Pick/Ban rates would not help him at all. That's where game knowledge and skill comes in. If a player knows the power budget that the average champion has in each role then that player can determine which champions are unbalanced through the most recent patch notes, but that player would need ample understanding of all of the champions and patch notes doesn't provide that for all ~150 champions. It only provides minor details and changes for that 1 group of champions. Professional players DONT always have that knowledge. Typically it's their coaches that have that kind of knowledge and even then it's not 1 person, but instead a team of people trying to analyze all of the most recent patch notes to spot a trend in the development of the game. This allows the team to practice with a composition that is less at risk of being adjusted mid-season. Pick/Ban/Win/Loss rates do not provide this information either. That would defeat the entire purpose of pick/ban rates and create circular logic. I ban this champion because another team banned this champion and so on. what typically happens is that each team picks the same 10-15 champions every game. this is because everyone believes the same 10 champions are the right champions to play for that season due to how the community and riot feels towards the rest of the roster. This is why there are upsets and attempts at varied strategies, but also we get a lot of higher pick/ban rates on a handful of champions. it doesn't necessarily mean those champions are unbalanced, but often what it means is that those champions are in fact balanced or the champions that are being balanced around. and then another team picks 10 champions that counters those 10 and so on. Each region has its own beliefs as to what makes a balanced champion or how to counter a specific champion and this of course impacts pick/ban rate on a professional level. And if a team wins then that doesn't necessarily mean that those champions aren't balanced because champions do not exist inside of a vacuum separate from their opponents. While team A might have tried to invade because it has helped their team bully their opponents out of the jungle early on Team B might have been expecting it and decides to set an invasion trap with some early game powerhouses and deep wards. And that can change the flow of W/L ratios drastically regardless of champs played. ---------------- all of this to say that W/L and P/B rates aren't valid reasons for balance - even on a professional level.
If you keep up with modern League even in the slightest then you'll be aware of the current balancing nightmares a lot of modern champions are proving to be. As I stated, there is a long list of champions who've been released the past couple of years who have been regular visitors to the patch notes with both buffs and nerfs and still haven't found a way to exist in the game without being either over or under performing. I really don't care to find every single buff and nerf to each of these champions and I highly doubt you want to read through all of this so it seems like rather a pointless endeavor to partake in. However as a brief summary, champions like Qiyana and Yuumi have received nerf after nerf after nerf and are still sitting at an almost 100% pick and ban rate in competitive play, whereas champions like Galio and Akali have received buff after nerf after buff after nerf. If this doesn't prove that these champions are unbalanceable then I'm not sure what will convince you otherwise. In the past, assassins were balanced through their distinct lack of reliable CC and generally being single target focused. At best they'd have a single target CC ability that required some sort of previous set up (such as Rengar's E) or were tied to some sort of a delay (Fizz R or LB E). Riot's newest assassin, Qiyana, has AoE CC not only on her basic abilities, but also a game changing AoE ult akin to Orianna or Kennen. Whilst pro play is indeed different to solo queue, it's ridiculous to assume that a champion with a 100% presence in pro play is anything but broken. However this argument is moot, the community utterly hates the new Akali, you said it yourself. This proves my original point - that recent champion designs tilt the community. Akali certainly isn't the only champion where this is the case. Sylas, Yuumi, Irelia and Qiyana all have high ban rates, despite their abysmal win rates. What more proof do you need that suggests these champions tilt people?
: > [{quoted}](name=Hard 4 Bard,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Eqt05MuY,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-09-08T15:03:16.638+0000) > > The issue of 'tilt' and toxicity is a complex, multi faceted issue and the blame can't simply be pinned on one singular target. The simple truth is most people aren't toxic and if you met them through any instance other than League, they'd likely be very nice. At the end of the day, no matter how much Riot does to phase out toxicity and negative behaviour, they will never be able to get rid of it entirely. That being said, there is a LOT of things Riot could do to greatly reduce these things, yet they do nothing. > > For the past 2 years, champion design has massively declined in quality and playing older champions against newer champions feels terrible due to how overloaded newer champions are. Champions like Yuumi, Sylas, Akali, Qiyana, Irelia, Aatrox, Galio etc. have never existed in a balanced state since their releases and yet they don't pause champion releases to properly adjust these champions and allow them to exist in a more balanced state, they just throw more overloaded champions at us. A few months ago they gave us a detailed plan for how they wanted to properly tone down how strong their new champions are and yet they haven't stuck to this rule at all. > > Autofill was certainly a step in the right direction and is miles better than the old 'pick order' philosophy we abided by, however it's far from perfect and there are many things they could do with this feature to help prevent tilt, but again they do nothing. There have been games where I've had 3 autofilled players whilst the enemy team has had 0. There have been games where our top laner gets autofilled, whilst they have a Riven OTP with 4k games. Games can quite literally be won and lost based on how poorly this feature has been implemented. Ensuring that all autofilled players are against other off role players, or even that each team has the same number of autofills would be a huge preventative measure in helping people remain tilt proof. > > This is just the tip of the iceberg of things they could do to help and I'm sure there are hundreds of other minor things they could do to help make League feel like a more enjoyable experience, however they prefer to spend their time shifting the blame onto the player base instead of constructing ways to help the situation. this is a well constructed argument with 1 flaw. you need some more examples. concrete example such as graphs or stats. for example - declaring that champion design has decreased is an opinion unless you can provide an example of what "balanced" would be like. the easiest way would probably to create some form of power budget and try to rationalize why a character like yummi isn't within that power budget when majority of champions are. arguing that the autofill feature is poorly designed, but then not giving an example of what a well designed system would be isn't really solving the problem - and while many players feel that this is a problem - an opinion of the majority is still just an opinion. I don't see it as shifting the blame on the playerbase. I think the playerbase is responsible for their actions and no amount of game mechanics can stop players from trying to purposely lose. that is what is known as consumer morale. And consumer morale is based on - as others have said - multiple facets with each set of facets being unique to each unique individual. You say that League is unbalanced and feels awful to play - just as many other do - but when asked why it feels awful to play or asked what would make league balanced the answer is never fully justified with logic or support. it's always just "do X because I think it's a good idea". And that type of criticism of anything isn't productive. I would love to be given my preferred role of mid every game. that would be just peachy. However, a study was done before autofill was rolled out. It showed how much or how little people enjoyed playing each role. What was found is that very few players wanted to play certain roles and those roles were dictated by time of day, time of week, time of year, and so on typically relating to patch notes. The one exception was the support lane. Support lane never got filled. Because the pool of support enthusiasts was so small in comparison to much larger pools like mid and of course that issue becomes a bit worse in higher elo. So autofill was added for higher ELO. It worked well enough to cut timers to about 5 minutes. some adjustments were made and to keep the game feeling universal it was added to all elo tiers. the bottom line is that even though it's not universally like by everyone it works and no one has created an alternative that works better and feels better.
Well look at the patch notes. Champions like the ones I listed have been in patch after patch after patch and are still proving to be massive balance problems. At her worst Akali sat at a 42% win rate with an 80% ban rate a close to 100% pick ban rate in competitive play. I'm not stating that the current autofill needs to be removed, just that the features I mentioned would go a long way in improving it and preventing people tiling over factors entirely out of their control. One of the most commonly upvoted comments on the boards is about removing autofill entirely and whilst I understand that's a poor option, I do definitely agree that Riot could do more to help make it more forgiving. I absolutely know that the players themselves are to blame for a lot of their actions, but I don't believe Riot is innocent in all of this. For years players have asked Riot to disable new and reworked champions in ranked for a few days, yet Riot hasn't listened and it's utterly infuriating.
: my thoughts are that your brainstorming has zero premise for any of the ideas. We can brainstorm all day, but the fact of the matter is that gaming communities are filled with people who have shitty personalities. it doesn't take a study to uncover the truth of the matter - no matter what version of esports we're talking about. And sure - we can blame a certain amount of that on game mechanics. As game mechanics are responsible for creating ways that players engage one another. HOWEVER, to say that game mechanics are the sole reason as to why people are shit in both body and mind in the whole of gaming communities is not only flawed, but downright ignorant of the nature of gaming communities as a whole. Gaming communities are sexist, perverted cesspools of social rejects looking for some idealized fantasy that gives them an outlet. With the added competition on top of that it's no wonder that the entirety of league and esports as a whole has fostered a list of abusive behaviors that is just accepted as part of the experience. -------- All to say that it's a shame. Gaming doesn't have to be about being the best or rubbing your opponents faces in the dirt. There's no need to make rape jokes, sex jokes, race jokes, and so on either to an opponent or to a teammate, but it happens and it happens so often that gaming has created a culture that embraces it instead of shaming those that do. We allow those kind of people to thrive here in our communities as "social outcasts" and gaming along with other digital art forms have been given a poor reputation worldwide because of it. -------------- I think acknowledging that we all deal with issues differently and trying to make the most out of a bad situation through humor and self-awareness is at least better than trying to ignore the truth. so to that I say... I like what riot did with the tilt video. it's an attempt to educate instead of making a crusade against those that ruin the experience for others. because at the end of the day we have 2 options. we can either remove everyone that tilts or we can talk about why people tilt and try to provide ways to prevent it on a psychological level.
The issue of 'tilt' and toxicity is a complex, multi faceted issue and the blame can't simply be pinned on one singular target. The simple truth is most people aren't toxic and if you met them through any instance other than League, they'd likely be very nice. At the end of the day, no matter how much Riot does to phase out toxicity and negative behaviour, they will never be able to get rid of it entirely. That being said, there is a LOT of things Riot could do to greatly reduce these things, yet they do nothing. For the past 2 years, champion design has massively declined in quality and playing older champions against newer champions feels terrible due to how overloaded newer champions are. Champions like Yuumi, Sylas, Akali, Qiyana, Irelia, Aatrox, Galio etc. have never existed in a balanced state since their releases and yet they don't pause champion releases to properly adjust these champions and allow them to exist in a more balanced state, they just throw more overloaded champions at us. A few months ago they gave us a detailed plan for how they wanted to properly tone down how strong their new champions are and yet they haven't stuck to this rule at all. Autofill was certainly a step in the right direction and is miles better than the old 'pick order' philosophy we abided by, however it's far from perfect and there are many things they could do with this feature to help prevent tilt, but again they do nothing. There have been games where I've had 3 autofilled players whilst the enemy team has had 0. There have been games where our top laner gets autofilled, whilst they have a Riven OTP with 4k games. Games can quite literally be won and lost based on how poorly this feature has been implemented. Ensuring that all autofilled players are against other off role players, or even that each team has the same number of autofills would be a huge preventative measure in helping people remain tilt proof. This is just the tip of the iceberg of things they could do to help and I'm sure there are hundreds of other minor things they could do to help make League feel like a more enjoyable experience, however they prefer to spend their time shifting the blame onto the player base instead of constructing ways to help the situation.
Abandon (OCE)
: @RIOT You cannot balance the new Aatrox for Pro Play and Solo Queue at the same time.
This problem isn't exclusive to Aatrox in all honesty. The same argument could be made for Akali, Irelia, Yuumi, Galio, Sylas, most of their recent champs really. It really goes to show how out of touch their design and balance teams are.
Win1Ocent (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Toþykachu,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FpzGTrO4,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-09-07T12:41:00.790+0000) > > It honestly appals me that Riot has created this extraordinarily toxic game state and is now sat here making jokes about it. There are so many infuriating things in League of Legends that Riot themselves could directly attempt to fix but don't even try at all: > > - Autofill is definitely an improvement over the previous 'pick order' system, but it by no means perfect. Putting 3 autofills on one team and 0 on the other isn't fair. Putting an autofilled player against someone who's played thousands of games in that role is not fair. Losing your 'autofill protection' status because you've played 2 games in your offrole also isn't fair. > > - New champions being eligible in ranked is also a cause of extreme tension. Sure, this individual may have played hundreds of games as this new champion on the PBE, however, most people don't have a PBE account and in turn have no idea how to play against this new champion. This is turn leads to one team getting frustrated over this mechanic. Either the team with the new champion gets frustrated watching this individual play a champion they have no idea how to use, or the enemy team gets barrelled over, as they don't properly understand how this new champion works. At least if they spend a few days only available in normals, it's on me if I don't know what this new champion does. > > - A decline in champion design - Don't get me wrong, new champions are hella fun to play, but that only tells one side of the story. A good champion shouldn't be obnoxious to play against. 1 person shouldn't get their enjoyment at the extent of everyone else's happiness. > > - No compensation for losing a game with afk's or trolls - It honestly baffles me how you can have an afk on your team for 30 minutes of the game and the game does nothing to offer any sort of compensation for this. No reduced LP loss, no loss prevented, nothing. > > There is so much Riot could do to make the game feel more enjoyable to play, but I guess making fun of people is better I guess. It's not often i take Riots side in stuff like this, but in this case i do defend them. I've played this game for 10 years now and over the years they have done a lot of things to try and counter the toxic players. This is a competitive game where people care and are forced to play with other players, no matter what riot does is gonna get the toxic players away. If you do find out in champ select that 3 players on the same team got autofilled, i am sure you could make it work with team work. Most of the time i believe players are using it as an excuse because they had a bad game. It is very unlikely though to get the scenario where 3 players on one team only are autofilled so i cannot see this as a real issue to toxicity. People are playing new champions in ranked every day, not just newly released ones, a player is gonna perform well if he can adapt quickly, and from my experience new champions are banned most of the time the first week anyway. Even if they would put in a 2 week ban on new champions in ranked i highly doubt toxicity levels would drop. A lot of X champions are annoying to face as Y champion. Blitzcrank is annoying for say Jinx, but as Ezreal he is no problem. Put a morgana support against Blitzcrank and suddenly the fun is gone for Blitzcrank instead of the ADC. No champion has only good match ups, if they do, they won't for long. Some champions are great in lane but fall off late game. A champions ability to shine relies heavily on what champions you are facing. Do you know what would happen if you actually got compensated for someone leaving the game? Players would do their best to force someone to quit, say the most terrible things to make them want to leave the game. What baffles me is why players are already being this toxic to other players, i've seen it a lot of times, someone does badly, they get tilted, players on the team join in and more or less forces to player to leave the game. IF you actually got loss prevented for doing what players are already doing, it would only increase the toxicity. Riot has done a lot. The report system is pretty good, a lot of my reports resulted in a ban or restriction. Getting honor is also required to play on the PBE, they've given rewards for good behavior, punished bad behaviour. It's a tricky issue that can't be fixed easily and will probably never get fixed in any game. The problem isn't the game, it's our ability to not give up or to accept the fact that sometimes the enemy team just played better. Don't get me wrong, i do believe you believe all this would solve the problems of toxicity, and i agree, they would solve it for YOU but not for most other players.
I'm not trying to argue that Riot has the ability to completely end toxic behaviour in LoL. just that there is a lot that they could do to help prevent it. I know that the things I listed are common complaints people have within the League community. A topic that asks for new champions to be disabled in ranked makes it to the top of the boards every single time a new champion is released/reworked, complaints about autofill show up quite regularly and I think everyone can agree that Akali, Irelia and Yuumi and champions with inherently toxic kits. The difference between people playing newly released champions and playing old champions for the first time is that it's not such a strain for the enemy team. Sure it sucks if someone on your team is playing Ahri for the first time, but the enemy team has had ample time to learn about how to play against Ahri and as such won't be left so confused when trying to shut her down.
: Statistically he's really only doing well in Master, and **only** there. And it's two number cleanups and 25 damage on his ult. You're trying to paint it like it's a massive buff when it's basically nothing.
> [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=99ds253A,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-06T12:49:55.541+0000) > > Statistically he's really only doing well in Master, and **only** there. > > And it's two number cleanups and 25 damage on his ult. You're trying to paint it like it's a massive buff when it's basically nothing. He is already the most picked jungler by far, whilst also being one of the most mechanically difficult junglers in the game, so of course his win rate is going to be below average. Buffing him is just going to further polarise the solo queue jungle even further. Your argument of "Strong in high elo, but bad in low elo" is also ridiculous. Akali is also doing awfully in low elo, so by your logic we should buff her too?
: If you are going to make this sort of video. At least change the unforgiving meta.
It honestly appals me that Riot has created this extraordinarily toxic game state and is now sat here making jokes about it. There are so many infuriating things in League of Legends that Riot themselves could directly attempt to fix but don't even try at all: - Autofill is definitely an improvement over the previous 'pick order' system, but it by no means perfect. Putting 3 autofills on one team and 0 on the other isn't fair. Putting an autofilled player against someone who's played thousands of games in that role is not fair. Losing your 'autofill protection' status because you've played 2 games in your offrole also isn't fair. - New champions being eligible in ranked is also a cause of extreme tension. Sure, this individual may have played hundreds of games as this new champion on the PBE, however, most people don't have a PBE account and in turn have no idea how to play against this new champion. This is turn leads to one team getting frustrated over this mechanic. Either the team with the new champion gets frustrated watching this individual play a champion they have no idea how to use, or the enemy team gets barrelled over, as they don't properly understand how this new champion works. At least if they spend a few days only available in normals, it's on me if I don't know what this new champion does. - A decline in champion design - Don't get me wrong, new champions are hella fun to play, but that only tells one side of the story. A good champion shouldn't be obnoxious to play against. 1 person shouldn't get their enjoyment at the extent of everyone else's happiness. - No compensation for losing a game with afk's or trolls - It honestly baffles me how you can have an afk on your team for 30 minutes of the game and the game does nothing to offer any sort of compensation for this. No reduced LP loss, no loss prevented, nothing. There is so much Riot could do to make the game feel more enjoyable to play, but I guess making fun of people is better I guess.
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Hard 4 Bard

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