: Thanks! Glad you like the changes. :) As for Ziggs, I went as far as I could with his ult. Any flashier and it might start affecting gameplay. :p
I really dont like the new ultimate. The new one seems so, i dont know how to describe it, boring? The old one looks bigger, the mushroom bigger, and smokier. It feels way more like a huge Explosion.
: Little Demon Tristana won the vote!
What i would like to know, If the majority of the 100+ games Players would have voted for another Skin, would it count more? Since they are the ppl who actually play the champ and are more likely to buy a Skin in comparison to 1-4 game Players.
: That's the kind of reasoning that get's you Dota 2, while it isn't a bad game, puts the entire burden of knowledge onto the player alone. It's why League is so much easier to get into than Dota 2, because League doesn't expect the new player to need to know every single champion in the game just to play. Despite the fact that I can tell you every single champions Kit, I learned that solely from playing the game, not by reading every single champion. That's how League rolls, while it's tutorial isn't optimal, it makes sure the new player can figure out what to do just by playing.
It doesnt matter how many times you say it. You have to actually learn if visuals are tied to gameplay or not. You have to LEARN. If you dont, you dont know if Pulsfire does something or not when you see it for the first time. You can easily say "it doesnt mean anything" because YOU know. And i am not saying Nasus needs a visual indicator or something, but your Argument was " to show the player "Yo shit's getting real." But you have to activly do something to find out if its the case. A new Player wondering why Nasus suddenly oneshots you even though nothing changed will also be confusing, but thats okay, you have to learn it. Khazix gameplay also doesnt change at all. His abilities just get more dmg, longer durability but they stay same. Once again, Kayles visual are pretty clear with her wings already. It doesnt matter if she has a helmet, no helmet, a wizard hat or a bag on her face.
: That's the kind of reasoning that get's you Dota 2, while it isn't a bad game, puts the entire burden of knowledge onto the player alone. It's why League is so much easier to get into than Dota 2, because League doesn't expect the new player to need to know every single champion in the game just to play. Despite the fact that I can tell you every single champions Kit, I learned that solely from playing the game, not by reading every single champion. That's how League rolls, while it's tutorial isn't optimal, it makes sure the new player can figure out what to do just by playing.
Sorry, but the direction that is going is total BS. You act like everyone is a little child who is in need of holding their hands. If it is too much asked for the Player to look up some things, or read some numbers, then they probably shouldnt play the game at all. Not a single Person is going to know what a champ does and why because of one game, yet you write as if this should be the case. Nasus going to to oneshot after some farm, but he has no "Yo shit's getting real." visual change or any other visual indicator. You know what you have to do? Right, you got to click that champion and READ how many stacks he has. Oh my god, the player had to proactive do something. Clicking and reading to know if Nasus is going to whop his ass yet. Lets take Pulsfire Ezreal here. He also changes his visuals a lot. Yet his Pulsfire Skin isnt actual showing "Yo shit's getting real." He only just hit the next Level where you can Level up your Ultimate. Base Ez doesnt do that. So how is that visual clear for somebody new? He doesnt know whats going on. Does Pulsfire now shoot lasers out of his ass? Maybe he has an AoE Deathray which instagibbs. Who knows? Everyone. Everyone who plays the game for a bit and actually care for whats going on knows that Pulsfire Transformation doesnt mean anything.
: That's the kind of reasoning that get's you Dota 2, while it isn't a bad game, puts the entire burden of knowledge onto the player alone. It's why League is so much easier to get into than Dota 2, because League doesn't expect the new player to need to know every single champion in the game just to play. Despite the fact that I can tell you every single champions Kit, I learned that solely from playing the game, not by reading every single champion. That's how League rolls, while it's tutorial isn't optimal, it makes sure the new player can figure out what to do just by playing.
So having a different appeariance shouldnt stop you from knowing what a Champion does. Back to Khazix and Kayle. You want to know what the difference between them is? In the end it doesnt matter how Kayle looks like. She could be a fat pink blob, a flying puppy or a giant bag of potatoes. You can tell what she can do by looking at her lvl, which is right next to her healtbar: Lvl 6 - Waves after stacks Lvl 11 - Gains Range Lvl 16 - Perma waves Thats not true for Khazix since he can choose what to evolve. Therefor his visual are actually needed, which is in return not true for Kayle because you can read it already by her Level.
: > The helmet or lack of is absolutly NOT neccessary as indicator Once again, you're only looking at the argument of "The Helmet shouldn't have been removed at all, since it's not an indicator." It's not about helmet, it's about it being a toggle. More forms, different looks, add in more visual data that can confuse folk, especially new players. Not everyone is the same as us, hell, half the of gameplay is people bitching about champions they've never actually tried to play themselves. If that isn't representative, I don't know what else. And no, your examples don't work. The only form of Kai'sa you'll ever see, stays exactly the same. Nothing else on her changes, so even if her hood changes, it you're still seeing relatively the same Kai'sa every game. Kayle changes much more drastically, so her changes actually mean something, same as Kha'zix.
Sorry, but if you use new players as argument who basicly know shit(everybody of us did), then the best thing would be every champion being a stick man. Like i said, it is a learning issuse to know what a champion does.
: Once, again, you're ignoring the issue. Bringing in other champion examples doesn't work here, because none of them work the way Kayle does, none of your examples actually change along with their power. If anything, Kha'zix is a much better example, and I don't know why you didn't use him. Imagine if you could toggle any of his appearance changes when he upgrades an ability. That is visual information you need to know. Secondly, you're forgetting about new players, who are still trying to get into the game. Most people don't take the time to look through all 138 champions we have, they typically go with the first one that catch their eye. The goal is to create as much visual clarity that it shouldn't confuse the player about what's happening. When the entire purpose is that a champion changes, they should remain changed. It'd be the same as if you wanted a toggle to go back to 2 Wings as opposed to 3. You can stand there and debate whether or not the helmet is nessecary at all for that point, having two extra different versions of Kayle in the game, when each version already indicates that there's a power change, can imply there is two different powerups associated. It's not solely about the helmet, it's about the concept as a whole. When your champion is entirely based on having 4 different appearances to judge power level on, you should stick to those 4 appearances.
Thats my whole Point. The helmet or lack of is absolutly NOT neccessary as indicator since, i repeat myself, you got her wings changing as powerindicator on all her skins! Lvl 6 - Those "stripes" coming out above her butt Lvl 11 - Extra wings Lvl 16 - Glowing/Exalted/Colorchange This is absolutly on all her Skins. Her helmet changing is not. Compare Base Kayle to Iron Inquisitor for example: Wings changes - Both same/Yes Helmet changes - No So what shall player look out for. Right, changes of wings. Therefor a helmet toggle on/off can be made and should be made for OP reasons. Its just a nice thing for Kayle Players to make and does not create visual unclarity. For Khazix, i agree mostly on you. His claws/wings/changing Shell being toggleable would be a no go. They are a clear indicator of what he evolved. But his face gaining something like toggle visor wouldnt be one. Why? I KNOW what he does. If you dont know it doesnt matter how many things grow out of him. But to take that in comparison to Kayle it would be me asking to toggle her Wings from 4 to 2. THAT would be visual unclear and the remove of an indicator and creating confusion. For the matter of bringing other Champions in here not working. Ofc these examples works. You KNOW the dont change in power even they change in appearance. The question is why do YOU know it? Probably because you played quite a bit, looked it up, whatever. Why cant the same be true for Kayle? I know that at lvl 16 she has 4 Wings, she glows, she has extra attack Speed and true damage waves. If she has a helmet or not doesnt matter. Why do i know? I looked it up. I played her. I played against her. If its your first time against ANY champ, it doesnt matter how he looks or what glows or flashes etc. You probably wont know. Its also a learning issue.
: > [{quoted}](name=Velasan,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=2XgnihPt,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-03-09T02:09:48.630+0000) > > I think the point they were making is you know Kayle is shall we say "powered up" when the helmet comes off. It's a visual cue to the enemy playing against her that she has changed. > > If it were on a toggle then it wouldn't tip off the enemy that Kayle is more dangerous at that point in the game. > > Same way that other champions have indicators for when passive abilities are up that have game changing impacts such as Malphites granite shield or Anivia egg. > > It's not perhaps game breaking, but there's more to it than just a visual cosmetic. agreed. kaisas helmet indicates nothing therefor she was allowed a toggle
But how do you know if it indicates something? How do you find out?
Zed genius (EUNE)
: Kai'sa has a helmet toggle? I thought only Night Hunter Rengar had that mechanic wow
See, thats probably a big reason why Riot says: Nobody uses them. People dont know. Ofc there are a bunch that doesnt care, but if you create a character or a Skin with a toggle, inform the Players. In a Skin Spotlight, in the Champion Spotlight, ingame, when you buy the champ, when you buy the Skin. Make it obvious. And THEN see if People use them.
: Kayyy, but now you're just arguing that they shouldn't have removed the helmet at all. Your original argument is "Can we have a toggle", which means if there is a toggle, there's going to now be two different forms of Kayle going around games, sometimes the same game with the Kayle maybe turning it off and on. To the unassuming player, is there a different form they don't know about, cause now they can see up to 5 or 6 different forms (levels 11 and 16 Kayle), with the helmet. Some games they'll see it, some they don't, and not everyone is going to know Kayle has a toggle for her helm. You can say people should just learn, but visual clarity is a standard Riot tried to uphold a lot.
No, i dont say the shouldnt have removed the helmet at all. I am saying that the helmet is not needed as part of an inidication. You can see the levels ingame. You got her gaining extra wings. You got her changing color at lvl 16. Like i said, the same thing on every Skin. And yeah, you are right, this is an learning issue ofc. I once took a break from LoL, came back, many new Champions, some Reworks and i didnt know wtf Champ A was doing or what this glowing thing means or why does he look like that etc. etc. After looking it up it was no Problem. This game is about learning and you should read it up, try it out or take a look into it. For visual clarity as example Kaisa can toggle a helmet. Is the unassuming Player now confused because the enemy player toggles her helmet at lvl 6, 11 and 16 on purpose? Maybe. Maybe only for one game after he finds out it does nothing. Aatrox gained wings suddenly. Now they are gone. What is Happening? Nothing. Pulsfire Ezreal changes. Whats Happening? Actually nothing, he just Level up, you can see it right next to the Champion which lvl he has.
Velasan (NA)
: I think the point they were making is you know Kayle is shall we say "powered up" when the helmet comes off. It's a visual cue to the enemy playing against her that she has changed. If it were on a toggle then it wouldn't tip off the enemy that Kayle is more dangerous at that point in the game. Same way that other champions have indicators for when passive abilities are up that have game changing impacts such as Malphites granite shield or Anivia egg. It's not perhaps game breaking, but there's more to it than just a visual cosmetic.
Same answer to you as above, the wings are more than enough.
: I mean, the point stands, and you acknowledged it. The red wings being permanent is one way of indicating the power level of Kayle, so I don't see how losing a helmet doesn't also accomplish that.
Yeah, the wings are an if not THE indicatior and its the same on ALL Skins. So no need for the helmet since it is not the same and inconsistent.
: It's not about other skins keeping their helmets, it's about losing or gaining something in general. Those other skins have different ways of showing their changes as the game goes on. Imagine if people wanted to toggle between Kayle's black wings and Red wings, that'd be the equivalent of base skin Kayle and her helmet. It's not solely about the helmet, their reasoning. It's about the concept as a whole. And each skin has different ways of expressing that concept.
You talking about Iron Inquisitor here right? If so, sorry, but you are wrong here. Her wings get red when she is exalted. They stay perma red when she hits 16 because she is perma exalted. The indicator here is gaining wings per lvl up and changing color for being perma exalted at lvl 16. This is exactly the SAME for all of her skins, different colors ofc, but not unique for this skin. It is a good and obvious indiaction and through out the same for all her skins, there are not different ways of expressing, because that would be irritating for Players. The helmet gain/loss is not needed as indication.
: I personally think she should have one but Riot decided they won't, here's the statement from Riot August from the AMA > Will not be adding a helmet toggle. Understand where you're coming from, but Kayle is intended to CHANGE as the game progresses (both visually and gameplay wise) and giving people the option to remove those changes would go against that. https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/ayfxhw/were_the_rioters_that_reworked_kayle_and_morgana/ei11tfv/?context=3
Just more reason for me to ask more often and push Riot. His answer is just BS if you are honest. Judgement and Iron Inquisitor dont lose their helmet. AEW gains something. This reads like forcing their Vision through and that sucks hard.
Rioter Comments
: You can sometimes make tabbing faster by turning off "focus assist" in windows. Search for "focus assist" in your windows searchbar, and open your focus assist settings. Here is where things get tricky: Even if you have focus assist turned off, you still need to turn each individual setting off as well. One would think that if you turn the entire thing off that is the same, but for some reason it is not. You need to turn off every individual focus assist setting, or it is still partially on.
Hey! Totally forgot i made a thread here too. Problem solved already! My Monitor rate was changed from 144 to 60 for whatever reason. Changed it back, now it works. But thanks a lot for your answer!!!
Rioter Comments
: Riot support is a joke.
You got some proof for any of this or did you only came here to rant about it.
: Why does Lux not see more pro play?
God, i hope she never sees pro Play. She is fine as she is now, in a good state. Has her strengths, has her weaknesses, but once a champ gets constanty used in pro Play, you can bet on it every idiot Plays it and get nerfed eventually. For the why, yeah, skillshots only, dodgeable.
: > [{quoted}](name=Hellsing69,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=E96QMiR5,comment-id=000100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-27T21:27:08.790+0000) > > Thee left side down over her hipps/but is already fabric and not enceased Stone, therefore a coat, What are you talking about? The left side of her body is still pretty much encased in stone, you can see cracks in the stone as high up as her left side stomach area, and there are numerous cracks and crumbles further down the fabric down that entire side.
The shards around her belly are already flying around and are no longer on her. Thats even more proof thats fabric there already. And pls tell me where are cracks anywhere i marked it for you. I dont care whats going on way down there at the bottom. Like i said, i dont think the whole statue is fabric, but the spot i circled clearly shows that her dress goes way more down than her ingame model.
: YES! IT’S FINALLY BACK!
I voted Little Demon. Devil Teemo is already here and he needs all the yordles subordinates to spread fear and Terror. Mostly being a little %%%% that has global taunt, but fear and Terror...yeah!
: Trust me,you'll feel the 15% extra crit chance when he only has a statikk shiv as a crit item....
No Trynda is not going to build IE. And honestly, 15% more Crit at lvl 16 Mid-Late game. It doesnt change really much.
: True, her kit alone isn't good at team fighting, but since her builds are so synergistic with her, it elevates her into a very very well rounded champion. Wanna go assassin? Sure, just get dusk and Youmous. Want to go the infinity abilities? Go spear. She can build tank items, bruiser items and assassin items. Her build is so versatile it covers her weaknesses, so much. Tl;Dr: Her kit isn't the BIGGEST problem to her being strong and good at team fighting, it's her synergy with items and runes which make her stupidly strong and covers her weaknesses by a big margin.
I agree on getting rid of her Animation canceling. I think its a Problem balancing around. Do that first and then take a look at conqueror.
: Uh yes,giving Tryndamere a 50% crit chance at lvl 16 is a VERY VERY GOOD IDEA GUYS.
??? Maybe stop little children babyrage and state first whats happening? Trynd 50% crit Chance, where you get that from?
: > [{quoted}](name=Hellsing69,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=E96QMiR5,comment-id=000100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-27T21:27:08.790+0000) > > Thee left side down over her hipps/but is already fabric and not enceased Stone, therefore a coat, What are you talking about? The left side of her body is still pretty much encased in stone, you can see cracks in the stone as high up as her left side stomach area, and there are numerous cracks and crumbles further down the fabric down that entire side.
[https://imgur.com/a/DG9OH6y I was talking left Viewer side too, and i even marked it for you. No Stone, no cracks, fabric, one piece.
: Yes, negative opinions are the ones that'll get shared, but where are these negative opinions and backlashes over the fundamental redesign of the character with Morgana? What about w/ Ez? Nunu? There's some nitpicks that you can find, but nothing as deafening as the complaints about Kayle. There's the boards and subreddits where you can see the complaints be one-sided, but you can also go through [this tweet](https://twitter.com/RiotAugust/status/1097987114531119104) to check it out. If you told me that negative opinions are favoured to be shared and expressed at a rate of 15:1 I'd believe you, but getting up to 50+:1? You'd expect a stronger 'positive opinion' backlash if Kayle's design was fine. Kayle fits a niche as a female encased in a full suit of armour. We have Leona and Rek'sai... As a girl dressed in a way that leaves little to the imagination however... Allow me to introduce you to Katarina, Evelyn, Morgana, Ahri, Kai'sa, Miss Fortune, Akali, ...
This. You only see so much so much threads with Feedback and critics and so on if a bunch of ppl have an issue with whats going to get shipped out. @Sobx. This is not a phantasm of 10 People. If you would look it up like i said, you would know that. Doesnt matter if negative Feedback is shared more, there is so much disagreement here that has to have a cause. And really nice move, grabbing in the air and pulling bs like "I am the voice of the communty" out. "Ignoring my opinion". Like i said, look it up for yourself. browse through a bunch of different sites, and tell me pls one more time its "My Opinion".
Sobx (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Hellsing69,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=bgiFobM3,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2019-02-28T01:37:03.366+0000) > > Listen to legit Feedback? Nah > Idea Rito set in its mind and dont care about the opinion of those who shall Play/buy it? YES """legit feedback""" regarding completely subjective thing like preferred visual details of a champion. It's always easier to just claim your **opinion** is an example of "legit feedback", but disregard anybody else's, sure.
I dont talke about me, or one Person now. Pls, just look throug the boards, Lol Reddit or KayleMains Reddit. There are so many ppl that say the same regarding certain things. If you dont call it legit, i dont know. Its them that are going to use Kayle and her Skins. But good Job making it seem like i think I AM THE ONLY ONE AND NO ONE ELSE COUNTS, I AM GOD. Wouldnt be the first time Riot is like "fuck the community". Want an example? Twitch Spray and Pray. How long did that take again?
IPERFECTO (EUW)
: Judgement Kayle Particles
They said they are not going to change it, which is not understandable for anyone with eyes. But i wouldnt give up, eventually they pull out their heads of their asses and listen to Feedback.
GreenKnight (EUNE)
: I doubt any further adjustments will happen to her base skin. Riot wants to ship her current design, and people's opinions on it don't really matter for them.
Listen to legit Feedback? Nah Idea Rito set in its mind and dont care about the opinion of those who shall Play/buy it? YES
QMighty (NA)
: Yeah, that seems like a solid theory. They did say last year that the art teams were really overworked between doing Akali/Aatrox/Nunu/Ezreal all in a row (and as a result the latter three suffered in terms of skin quality) so it would make sense for 17-skin Morg and Kayle to get really shafted. Let's hope they learn from this mistake and don't try this again (looking at you, Diana and Leo)
They should delay it, or ship it but make changes afterwards. There is so much where Riot is definetly not listening. Either if its overwork like you mentioned and they want it to get done, or maybe a case of "But mu Vision". Honestly, i dont get why companies can just admit certain things or say Hey, maybe it comes a week or two later because we listened to you Feedback instead of coming with Price Tier answers which where disproved in three Posts. No ones gonna die and ppl like honesty and when they are listend to.
: > [{quoted}](name=Hellsing69,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=E96QMiR5,comment-id=000100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-27T21:27:08.790+0000) > > Thee left side down over her hipps/but is already fabric and not enceased Stone, therefore a coat, What are you talking about? The left side of her body is still pretty much encased in stone, you can see cracks in the stone as high up as her left side stomach area, and there are numerous cracks and crumbles further down the fabric down that entire side.
On her left side are no more cracks. If you look from the left shoulder down to her hips/butt and a little further, its all fabric and free of Stone, where are you looking at???
: > [{quoted}](name=Hellsing69,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=E96QMiR5,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-27T20:53:22.613+0000) > > Certain Areas, but not the ones i mentioned and Shows a fabric coat Near her upper torso yes. But below where her coat line is in the game is still encased in stone.
Thee left side down over her hipps/but is already fabric and not enceased Stone, therefore a coat,
: > [{quoted}](name=Hellsing69,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=E96QMiR5,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-27T20:34:04.275+0000) > > The left side goes down in one Piece and its NOT Stone there anymore. So yeah, it basicly goes against what you said and does not represent the ingame model. Viewer left is still very much encased in stone as you can see where it's cracking and breaking away in certain areas.
Certain Areas, but not the ones i mentioned and Shows a fabric coat
: > [{quoted}](name=Hellsing69,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=E96QMiR5,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-27T20:22:11.252+0000) > > It goes over her hips, down her legs. Where you see that ingame? > Edit: Also, you dont see a pointy end on her Shirt like in the splash, there it goes down both sides. Her coat doesn't go down her legs that we can see in the splash. Her viewer left side and back side is still encased in stone, some of which is not her actual garb, as I've pointed out. Her right hip DOES fit what we see in game, because her coat ends well above her mid thigh. As for the middle section of her shirt, that's clearly not completely visible in the splash, or it's still in stone. The seam down her front bends to the viewer left, which is still partially petrified.
The left side goes down in one Piece and its NOT Stone there anymore. So yeah, it basicly goes against what you said and does not represent the ingame model.
: > [{quoted}](name=Hellsing69,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=E96QMiR5,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-27T20:14:24.674+0000) > > [https://imgur.com/a/PRmS3PW > > Okay, here it is. Look from the sides of her top half how it goes down, in one Piece. There is no stop, or cracking Stone or anything else. This is ONE Piece. > And for the red circle: Where in the hell is that a lower wing from her? This is not enceased Stone. This is fabric. > She may not have the full coat, because like you say, the bottom just erases, but she has a coat and not just a Shirt. She's got a coat on in her model. I don't understand how your picture disproves anything I've said. And as you see in her model, her coat is solid down the sides, just like it is in the splash. https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/KMI_4eZRwdzvj6Sn3PrWGg6Mskw=/0x0:1600x667/1200x0/filters:focal(0x0:1600x667):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/14140047/silver_kayle_turnaround_1.png
It goes over her hips, down her legs. Where you see that ingame? Edit: Also, you dont see a pointy end on her Shirt like in the splash, there it goes down both sides.
: > [{quoted}](name=Hellsing69,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=E96QMiR5,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-02-27T17:35:19.611+0000) > > You can circle as many things as you want and think them out of it. She doesnt has a Shirt on like her ingame Model has. Look at her, from the Viewers Point, right leg and see how the fabric glides down to the left. Also look between her legs, and on her butt, also fabric there gliding down. > You want to tell me thats not fabric? And she does look like that ingame? Really? The "fabric" that glides to the left of her right leg from our view is one of her lower wings, and as I've pointed out, the stone fabric that her lower half is still partially encased is is nothing more than part of the decoration of the stone statue she was in. We know this is nothing but decoration (and not actually part of Kayle herself) because parts of those long flowing pieces of stone fabric have broken away in chunks, revealing nothing beneath them. It's the same instance with her sword, in that is has a flowing piece of stone fabric swirled around it that is shattering away from the blade - a blade that doesn't have tassels or any kind of cloth that's supposed to be wrapped around it.
[https://imgur.com/a/PRmS3PW Okay, here it is. Look from the sides of her top half how it goes down, in one Piece. There is no stop, or cracking Stone or anything else. This is ONE Piece. And for the red circle: Where in the hell is that a lower wing from her? This is not enceased Stone. This is fabric. She may not have the full coat, because like you say, the bottom just erases, but she has a coat and not just a Shirt.
: > [{quoted}](name=Hellsing69,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=qbAGMJdO,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-27T17:26:07.706+0000) > > Why ppl Keep bringing up Victorious Morgana? Maybe because you could see Judgement Kayle as the "first Victorious Skin". It was obtained by playing 10 games S1. Afterwards victorious Skins came. So i can see why they bring it up and i say its legit. You are the first person I've heard who considers Judgment Kayle as a precursor to the Victorious skins. I personally don't agree with this, because playing 10 games is something ANYONE can do, whereas reaching a specific rank is something that people who dedicate lots of time to mastering their champion achieve. Showing skill, as opposed to just cranking out 10 games, makes the Victorious skins far different from Judgment Kayle. > Human Ryze didnt get any particles was maybe because he doesnt need them. But pls take a look at Judgement/Silver Kayle, and tell me the golden Spell Colors dont look stupid. This is actually a part of your argument you need to be adamantly explaining. Your justification for particles on Silver and Judgment Kayle was that they're collector's edition skins. So the same, therefore, applies to Young Ryze. So if these skins truly were on some special level, he would have received particles, on account of the skin's rarity. But he did not. And Kayle's two skins have not. Therefore, your point that particles for these skins are essential doesn't have a lot of backbone to stand with - and this lack of precedence is therefore why I do not consider these skins having unique particles as something essential to fix before her relaunch. > > I know you dont state the rules. Still doesnt mean that ist right/or should be this way. What Riot says concering her helmet reads for me like another Developer <-> Player Twist aka "Muhhh, Vision". That's a fair thing to feel. But because Riot has set those rules about her helmet, that is why she can't a helmet toggle. Thus, it's something non-essential.
If i am the first Person you see considering Judgement Kayle as a precursor, you didt look very well in all those Kayle threads. Secondly, you are mixing two things up with the particles: First, you argued with Price Tiers. I said they dont have Price Tiers and are Special enough to get considered for VFX changes. Second you came up with Human Ryze, because he is the same category, but he didnt got any changes. Where i answered i go there after what Riot said,simplyfied, they do changes when the VFX Colors look bad, example Exiled Morgana. And Human Ryze doesnt look bad with the Colors, Silver and Kayle do, and if you look up in threads, lots of other ppl think so too.
: https://imgur.com/a/PMWRzsW I've circled some areas that indicate that the "flowy" parts of her outfit aren't actually parts of her outfit. She was encased in stone, obviously, and as you'll notice with the sword, the statue she was inside took some liberties with the sculpting of all of this excess fabric to make her more grand. The actual Kayle breaking out ISN'T dressed in flowy fabrics, she looks just as she does in game. We are given this indication by the fact that the larger areas of the stone flowy fabrics have large chunks missing and huge cracks in them, which means there is nothing actually beneath them that they were encasing.
You can circle as many things as you want and think them out of it. She doesnt has a Shirt on like her ingame Model has. Look at her, from the Viewers Point, right leg and see how the fabric glides down to the left. Also look between her legs, and on her butt, also fabric there gliding down. You want to tell me thats not fabric? And she does look like that ingame? Really?
: Silver Kayle's model is painfully disappointing compared to the splash art...
Not the first thread about it, not the last thread about it. Keep going!!! I totally support it to shange it frome her lame Shirt and give her a Coat.
: > [{quoted}](name=Hellsing69,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=qbAGMJdO,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-27T16:51:41.351+0000) > > Who decides what is essential? > For me it is, and browsing throug LoL Reddit and KayleMains Reddit it seems to be for a lot of other ppl. > > And because of the way how you obtain Silver and Judgement Kayle makes them special enough. There doesnt need to be a price Tier for them. > You can expect a CE Skin too be good looking, same for a victorious Skin. Look at Victorious Morgana for example, new VFX Colors, looks great. > There is no real standard for CE and other severely limited skins. Human Ryze didn't get ANY special particles, so this falls directly in line with previous work on CE skins. So therefore, it's all subjective as to what these skins need, especially since the people who actually own them are such a microscopically small portion of the population that plays this game. So therefore, they are not really essential. Victorious Morgana - why the hell do people keep bringing this up in comparison to Judgment/Silver Kayle? It is a Victorious skin, it is a ranked reward, not a collector's edition skin. It also had unique particles PRIOR to Morgana's VGU, and has retained unique particles AFTER her VGU, in the same vein as every other Victorious skin. It's a completely different animal in comparison to Silver/Judgment, and should not be compared to them. > > About the Helmet Toggle. It was part of her identity. Losing it as indicator of power? What are the increasing number of wings for? Why dont Judgement Kayle and Iron Inquisitor lose their helmet? Why does AE Kayle even GAIN some sort of facial armor? > Saying it is a indicator of power is just plain wrong. I don't set the rules here. I was stating what Riot has done. The wings increase, and her head changes. In the majority of Kayle's skins, her helmet comes off as she reaches her peak, so it IS used as an indicator of her power, whether you like it or not. That's not debatable. And Judgment and Iron Inq Kayle don't lose their helmets because it's impractical to their design, and as such, their helmets gain extra elements to indicate they're at their power peak, like the crown on Iron Inq. Same goes for AW Kayle, which, I should point out, is a legendary skin, and can do whatever it wants to reinvent the rules as long as it still has SOME indicator of her reaching her power peak - in this case, gaining the helmet.
Why ppl Keep bringing up Victorious Morgana? Maybe because you could see Judgement Kayle as the "first Victorious Skin". It was obtained by playing 10 games S1. Afterwards victorious Skins came. So i can see why they bring it up and i say its legit. Human Ryze didnt get any particles was maybe because he doesnt need them. But pls take a look at Judgement/Silver Kayle, and tell me the golden Spell Colors dont look stupid. I know you dont state the rules. Still doesnt mean that ist right/or should be this way. What Riot says concering her helmet reads for me like another Developer <-> Player Twist aka "Muhhh, Vision".
: > [{quoted}](name=Hellsing69,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=qbAGMJdO,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-27T16:33:23.489+0000) > > Silver Kayle and Judgement Kayle need VFX Color changes too. And give Silver Kayle the coat from her splash, she Looks pretty lame ingame in comparison. > Kayle helmet toggle needed btw. None of this is essential. Silver and Judgment don't have pricing tiers, as they are special circumstances, so what they actually need in terms of VFX is completely subjective. In regards to the "coat," if you study the splash, Kayle's outfit mirrors her in-game costume, as you'll notice that the flowy stone fabrics covering her in the splash are what she is breaking off of her as she comes to life. The lower left stone fabric in the splash has a big crack in it that indicates it's not actually part of Kayle's person that was encased in stone - it's like the swirled stone fabric breaking off of her sword, it was part of the decorative monument that encased Kayle. So she matches that splash if you actually study it, so she doesn't need anything added. And Kayle does not need a helmet toggle. The fact that she loses her helmet as she progresses in power is used as an indicator of her power in the game, so a toggle would be clutter and lose that clarification for others looking at her.
> [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=qbAGMJdO,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-02-27T16:41:19.352+0000) > > None of this is essential. Silver and Judgment don't have pricing tiers, as they are special circumstances, so what they actually need in terms of VFX is completely subjective. > In regards to the "coat," if you study the splash, Kayle's outfit mirrors her in-game costume, as you'll notice that the flowy stone fabrics covering her in the splash are what she is breaking off of her as she comes to life. The lower left stone fabric in the splash has a big crack in it that indicates it's not actually part of Kayle's person that was encased in stone - it's like the swirled stone fabric breaking off of her sword, it was part of the decorative monument that encased Kayle. So she matches that splash if you actually study it, so she doesn't need anything added. > And Kayle does not need a helmet toggle. The fact that she loses her helmet as she progresses in power is used as an indicator of her power in the game, so a toggle would be clutter and lose that clarification for others looking at her. Who decides what is essential? For me it is, and browsing throug LoL Reddit and KayleMains Reddit it seems to be for a lot of other ppl. And because of the way how you obtain Silver and Judgement Kayle makes them special enough. There doesnt need to be a price Tier for them. You can expect a CE Skin too be good looking, same for a victorious Skin. Look at Victorious Morgana for example, new VFX Colors, looks great. About the Helmet Toggle. It was part of her identity. Losing it as indicator of power? What are the increasing number of wings for? Why dont Judgement Kayle and Iron Inquisitor lose their helmet? Why does AE Kayle even GAIN some sort of facial armor? Saying it is a indicator of power is just plain wrong.
: Yes, it was worth it; the players who do own the skins, however few, will be satisfied with the updates. As someone who has played mostly Kayle over the past several years and does not own the skins either, I think that it would be extremely unfair to players who, in the case of Silver Kayle, supported the company when they were on the come-up and, in the case of Judgment Kayle, have a piece of history from the fledgling days of the game. I'm willing to bet that the majority of those players would not be satisfied with getting a half-assed border while having their skin seriously devalued (not in the monetary sense) the way that Championship Riven owners did. Furthermore, this really isn't about players seeing the skins in game; 99% of players don't really care about the skins other players use beyond perhaps the first sighting (and getting to see Silver or Judgment Kayle is more exciting than seeing commonly available skins, due to their rarity). This is about wanting the skins for oneself. Does it suck that many players weren't around back then and thus missed out? Yes. That doesn't mean that they should be brought back—that goes for a lot of things in life. The overwhelming majority of games with purchaseable cosmetics have permanent rares, so be thankful that League has incredibly few in comparison.
> [{quoted}](name=Old Father Time,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=AXY3wgmJ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-25T03:07:48.627+0000) > > Yes, it was worth it; the players who do own the skins, however few, will be satisfied with the updates. As someone who has played mostly Kayle over the past several years and does not own the skins either, I think that it would be extremely unfair to players who, in the case of Silver Kayle, supported the company when they were on the come-up and, in the case of Judgment Kayle, have a piece of history from the fledgling days of the game. I'm willing to bet that the majority of those players would not be satisfied with getting a half-assed border while having their skin seriously devalued (not in the monetary sense) the way that Championship Riven owners did. > > Furthermore, this really isn't about players seeing the skins in game; 99% of players don't really care about the skins other players use beyond perhaps the first sighting (and getting to see Silver or Judgment Kayle is more exciting than seeing commonly available skins, due to their rarity). This is about wanting the skins for oneself. Does it suck that many players weren't around back then and thus missed out? Yes. That doesn't mean that they should be brought back—that goes for a lot of things in life. The overwhelming majority of games with purchaseable cosmetics have permanent rares, so be thankful that League has incredibly few in comparison. As someone who owns Silver Kayle, i can tell you, i am fucking not satisfied with her ingame Model. Her splash is freaking gorgeous! Just look at it. And when you see it ingame its just lame. I said it so often in many different threads but i wont get tired of repeating it: Give her the coat, it just looks so good. What she currently has is a lame Shirt. Make her blume more silverish/blue instead of dark blue and change her VFX Colors from Gold to Silverish/Blue.
: Riot - Morgana and Kayle - Some essential fixes before they relaunch
Silver Kayle and Judgement Kayle need VFX Color changes too. And give Silver Kayle the coat from her splash, she Looks pretty lame ingame in comparison. Kayle helmet toggle needed btw.
333lom (EUNE)
: Here are my edits for Kayle's base visuals
OMG, thats nearly everything one can ask for. Get rid of that sword and she would be perfect.
Rioter Comments
: Kayle's Skins Should Have a Helmet Toggle
Okay guys, i asked RiotAugust just right now on his stream about it! First he said NO. Two reasons: 1. Because no one uses toggles or very rarely. Then he said he assumes so, because he didnt look it up, which is something he probalby should. He gave examples on toggles nearly never used like Old Aatrox or Kaisa Helmet. 2. Because Kayle transcends through the leveling and changes. So, i still think it wont happen, but maybe there is a slight shimmer of hope for it. Maybe he looks into it.
: If they did that which I doubt they would Riven would have to recieve the largest buffs this game has seen in years because she would be absolute trash.
> [{quoted}](name=Frosted Tips,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xpByIKn7,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-02-22T19:01:59.714+0000) > > If they did that which I doubt they would Riven would have to recieve the largest buffs this game has seen in years because she would be absolute trash. Yeah, but i absolutley think they should do it. A better Player should use his skills to set up the mechanics of a Champion and therefor be better than someone else and get rewarded for it. See Faker on Zed vs someone else on Zed. Knowing when and how to use a Champ, his abilities and make Plays accordingly to that. Not because there is something broken in the game, in this case Animation canceling on Riven and Riot doesnt fix it.
: @Meddler DO NOT nerf riven, nerf conqueror
Honestly, before they should touch Riven, they should remove her Animation Canceling and adjust her accordingly to that.
: Thoughts on Kayle Rework - Gameplay/VO/Skins
Agree on the VFX Color changes for some Skins, and changing some Colors in General on the Skin itself.
MDayR (NA)
: Same thing for Arclight Yorick
> [{quoted}](name=MDayR,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=VppE2rdu,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-02-21T22:21:15.567+0000) > > Same thing for Arclight Yorick Whats up with him?
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Hellsing69

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