: > [{quoted}](name=IOnlyNeedOneShot,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=un90AXaZ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-12-15T18:18:20.377+0000) > > What I don´t understand are the three downvotes without a single word where or why I am mistaken. > > These are probably tilted midlane mains that feel offended rn. > > Or they don´t have enough time to comment. Which again would make no sense considering the fact they´ve had enough time to read through my post. > > {{sticker:sg-janna}} .. first of your being baised... yes some AP items are overtuned. but MORE "ad" items are overtuned does {{item:3135}} need 40% reduction? no it does not but to answer your question why is it higher than "AD's? becuase AD have a shit ton of other ways to armor pen you and armor past 10-15 min n the game is effectively worth absolutely nothing. as it wont do jack shit to save you. MR on the other hand.. WILL save you.. even in very late game excluding very few rare exception cases. AD also just much more pen much earier. as mostly take on to a item that also give very good other stats AP's item is {{item:3135}} had 70 AP... which for an ap item.. isnt very much at all the average AP on each ap item since season 3-4 has gone down drastially and the average AD has gone up drastically. and the only reason they even remains somewhat equal is becuase riot buffed {{item:3089}} from 25% to 40%... again making it a must buy. it also forces AP champsion to use TWO items slot {{item:3089}} AND {{item:3135}} to really hit hard and burst through tankier champions lategame. which severely limits out build. where as it used to be "u choose which u want" did they have lots of MR or little.. and u would base your choice now every champ in the game has scaling MR and every AP item has had it AP reduced and in return {{item:3089}} has it ratio nearly doubled.. this means. on the flip side. while neither AD or AP have good defensive items vs AD. the AD champs when fighting AD champs both acess they same items and while AP donest have much defenses vs AP either we do have more than we do vs AD and again.. still we have acess to the same items.. the difference is... when AD fights AP... AD has a SHIT TON of options to go offensive and defensive at the same time all of which have non overlapping unique passives were as the AP champs vs AD only has {{item:3157}} .. and that's it so while AD vs AD might and AP vs AP may have a bit more defne but still a small amount.. they are still evently matched becuase thy both have acess to the same items.. but when u take into account AD vs AP.. AD is going to always come out on top in itemization options. also keep in mind that of all the broken new items that have been added and everyone complaiuns about... how many have been AP vs how many AD? AD: {{item:3147}} {{item:3814}} ( although this was shortlived in its OP) {{item:3095}} {{item:3813}} afterit was buffed to 33% {{item:3094}} and its synergy with {{item:3087}} in season 6 and 7 {{item:3508}} {{champion:58}} top and how mnay have been AP? {{item:3107}} is kinda AP its support but actaulyl donest give AP {{item:3504}} this isnt even a new item... it was fine on release but they buffed it... and again it was the support aspect that made the OP adc's even worse. and somehow this items took the brunt of the balme even though it only made the problem _worse_... and wasnt the actual problem itself how many people do u see somplaiing about shit like {{item:3285}} or {{item:3907}} ? no one.. becuase they arnt even very good in fact the BEST "new ap item" is in fact not even full ap... its hybrid in {{item:3146}} the fact is every time a new AD item is introduced it always OP and while it may eventually be tones down. its still almst always remains an issue. were as the AP items... are just bad... save for a few exceptions just yesterday i saw a thread complaing that {{item:3100}} was too inefdcient for its cost... and i highly disagreed... it is an VERY effective item.. but then i lookd at {{item:3078}} and its damn near 100% effcient even wihout ETIHER of its VERY GOOD passives. AD items have better cost effciency they have better stats.. there are more options to build more ways.. were as ap items... whil;e not as limited as were had prevoiusly been.. still pales in comparison to AD items.
First off, yes. I am biased. Biased after several hours of playing this game while getting oneshot by a 2/12 Syndra that´s down 4 level and invested into 2 flat pen items while I have a completed Maw of Malmortius. Or getting oneshot by a 0/9 Veigar that barely had any stacks. Or a 2/6 Katarina that gets a quadrakill in a 1v4. I´ve been through it all. And I´ve grown to hate ap itemization and everything there´s to it. I actually feel like the amount of magic pen and armor pen isn´t a thing that heavily outweighs one another. For every Black Cleaver there is a Morellonomicon. For every Lord Dominiks Regards there is a Void Staff. For every Darius E there is a Karthus W. Or Evelynn E. Or Trundle R. It really comes down to which champions are getting picked. But my point wasn´t about champions, it was only about items. And it´s pretty safe to say that the AP ones are not only more popular but also performing better. Mr will and armor wont save you lategame? Are you sure about that? I honestly think a full armor rammus will survive a full ad teamcomp longer, than a full mr mundo will an ap one. And especially regarding assassins. If you can remember old Akali or Diana. They definetely still deal relevant damage to tanks. Now ask Zed/Talon. They´ll laugh at you. And probably feel bad afterwards. Overall mr might be more reliable lategame, however, as long as you build a void staff as mage, you´ll still cut through tanks as if they´re butter. Furthermore i dont really see the problem you have only being able to buy zhonya. This item has by far the most versatile and most gamechanging active ability and it is more than enough to deal with many situations. What are the items AD champs can buy when fighting AP? There´s Maw. This feels horrible to build as an ADC especially since it´s meant to be a bruiser item. I mean you can still very well go for it but it is far from optimal and you´d normally want to avoid it. And there´s Mercurial Scimitar. The problem with that is, its stats got nerfed so heavily, it ended up being even more cost inefficient than Zhonya is in the first place. And for the item part, all I can say is most of the AD ones make no sense or are barely ever played and to me it seemed you tried your best to sum up all non broken AP items and act like they´re all perfectly balanced to begin with.
: > [{quoted}](name=IOnlyNeedOneShot,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8HnHAuFT,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2018-12-15T18:15:06.814+0000) > > You´re trolling, right? Noone mentioned you have to type "I´m inting" or whatever in chat in order to be considered inting. > > Inting is **int**entional feed**ing** > > So the moment you plan on dying in order to assist the enemy, you´re inting. > > And no, not even dying twice a minute wouldt be inting as long as your lane opponent or whoever killed you while you tried your hardest. The only way to prove someone had intent is if they were to type it in the chat. So if it were actually required that intent be undeniable, then anyone would be safe by claiming it was a bad game, a dead mouse, a thunderstorm, a roommate watching Netflix, etc. But that isn't how it works.
All it takes is picking {{summoner:6}} {{summoner:1}} {{champion:20}} and collect some deaths. Trust me.
wolf jade (EUNE)
: 1 i do have. 2 why? why not just let all the players see if they want it
I obviously have no answers for that. I just tried to help you by finding a solution for your problem. Sorry for not doing so.
: Duuuuude i am not playing Worlds. Only one not viable pick there is Corki which I even 0lay sometines and he is not that bad.
I´m being deadass serious. If you want to play ADC atm, stay away from the champions I´ve listed at the top.
: Is this post a troll or something? > Which boots are arguably the best? Well what do you expect? Mages need very VERY much mpen. Which is found in two items, one of which is boots. However this has its own downsides, being reliant so much. They cant swap them. Sometimes you need extra protection or tenacity. However someone like ziggs cant do it. Rylais remains a pretty mediocre-bad item because of all the dashes around. And liandry reaches its max potential if you buy rylais. However lets say the enemy has dashes, rylais is pretty bad as an item. Void staff has more %mpen than the ad counterpart because of the inherit limitations that abilities have. Aka cooldowns and mana costs. Also void staff lacks varieties like gw in exchange of less %adpen. Roa is garbage in most champs because of how weak is early on. Its effects barring some champs are pretty bad on most mages. Glp is and might be bought because glacial exists. Otherwise its a pretty bad item. Why zhonyas is in the game? Because mages need a defensive item to help them survive some cancers like zed fizz akali talon etc. Ga also in addition of reviving you, it also gives you back half of your hp and mana ( i think) . Its stasis duration is also longer. It also requires no thinking at all and you dont need to act to activate it. Banshee's can be proced with ease by a stray ludens or stattik. Afterwards it goes into a 40 sec cd. In those 40 sec the mage has to play extremely passive in order to regain it. Also raw mr is useless without hp. So tank items still provide way better durability than banshees will ever grant. Also unlike malz's it blocks one spell while malz's lingers for .25 or so and reduces dmg by 90% in that time frame. Rageblade has this popularity because of its passives. Double hit specifically. Before the last changes the bonus ad (and ap) where useful. However still adcs buy it for the double hit. And its not a mage item. Its an on hit/hybrid item. You wont see a veigar buy it. Your example with morelo sucks because most mages have mana and need to rush a mana item in order to function. Yes until that level they will deal almost true dmg. Good however most of the times you can avoid the dmg from a mage. Also they can do it one or two times (their full rotation) without mana items. Liandry's burst? What? Hello? Sure it gives hp. Riot wants mages to be beefy for reasons that i will never learn. Seraph's takes A LOT of time to stack it. Apart one or two mages, they cant buy it because they dont have low enough cd spells to stack it in time. Also its active is fairly balanced. High cooldown AND mana cost unlike some items ad have (cough cough scimitar). Lichbane? Well ad have its counterpart. Sure not exactly the same but its bought by assassins and requires aa. Duskblade. Ludens gives infinite mana. My dear friend, go into the rift, pick someone like xerath and come back and tell me about that said infinite mana. Gunblade is a hybrid item. Mages (apart one or two) cant make use of it. Rabadons to multiple a mages carry potential. Just how ie multiples an adcs potential to carry. Only a small handful of mages can reach 1000 ap. And in order to do so you have to avoid buying low ap items. Such as banshees or zhonyas. Ap as a whole has higher numbers because of their limitation compared to ad since they have their aa that deal 100% of said ad. Atk speed also multiplies said dmg. Then there is crit.
It´s not a secret that flat Pen/ Pen in general is a damn good stat to have. I mean ADCs for example have more dps with IE + Zealitem + LDR than with 100% crit. So where are armor pen boots? Why should mages get access to an OP stat and noone else? *thinking emoji* Every attack speed scaling adc relies on Berserker as well. Mercs/Tabis have a lower winrate on all of them. But why do Sorcs have a 17.4% pickrate with a 52.5% winrate (which is by far the highest for any boots) and Berserker a 17.3% pickrate with a 51.0% winrate? Even on Ezreal is mpen better than cdr for example. With mages being the most popular class I literally have no idea where you have all your dashes from. And if so, even those spells have cd, you know? Malzahar E and you slow someone for an eternity. It´s not like there´s any way of dodging it, especially not with a dash. The next point you made, made 0 sense. Almost every AD champ has not only cds but mana costs as well. And in case you´re reffering to AP autoattackers, Kayle Corki and Azir want to know your current location. You simply cannot deny the spike you get from completing Rod of Ages and neither can you deny the fact that it scales very well, which is just not optimal this meta. Simply imagine games going 10 minutes longer again and TF etc. would easily be top tier again. We aren´t disagreeing in regards of Hextech GLP's strength. Your "skill" argument with Zhonya made me sick. This item has 0% skill impression and 100% brutal opness. GA might have -10% skill expression according to this statement, but who cares. In the end, what counts are facts. GA gives you 0 agency and doesn´t change the outcome of an engage. However if Zed ults you and you press Zhonya (**much skill such wow**) he cant even fight you no matter the amount of times he solokilled you in lane. And as I already mentioned, even ADCs sometimes buy it since it straight up outclasses GA. You mentioned Banshees lacks HP. Funnily enough, almost every other AP item tends to have HP for some odd reason nowadays. So you make midlaners into tanky burst per second machines. Which leads to frustrating gameplay for non-midlane players. Morellonomicon is easily a S+ tier item and noone can argue that. And since you said the point I made is bad because I chose a champion that doesnt need mana. Well. Let me tell you, Oblivion Orb only has half the cost of morellonomicon and already has the MPen. And it´s not rare that a Orianna or whatever has A Ludens, Sorcs, and an Oblivion Orb upon reaching lvl 11. Scimitar got nerfed into to ground until it barely gives stats anymore. So I have no idea why you´re comparing Archangels Staff with it. And like I already mentioned, it has the same problems and strengths Rod of Ages has. I love how you completely left out the pushing part. How well does duskblade do in regards of destroying turrets? That´s a lie right there. As long as you keep applying your passive you never and if I say never I mean **never** run oom as Xerath. You actually described exactly the problem I have with Gunblade by saying that. Kinda interesting how you compare the extremely strong Deathcap with the extremely underwhelming Infinity Edge. And many mages being unable to reach 1000 AP is simply not true. All it takes is Rabadons, 2 Infernals and maybe a Baron or a Mejai. I´ve even seen supports reach 1000 AP before.
: So does Annie, and Ryze, and Cassio, or any AP champ that can spam spells to gain more charge.
While that is true, Diana actually builds it first and it´s her best performing item by a mile.
wolf jade (EUNE)
: why cant you use all the champs/skins in practice tool?
Just create a PBE account, literally that easy.
: Spell binder failed as an item and only Eve build it.
{{champion:131}} disagrees with the title of the thread.
: Issue is with all three of those if someone is playing {{champion:236}} {{champion:202}} {{champion:119}} {{champion:21}} you will get smashed so hard in lane you will not be worth anything till 35+ min. which by then the game is over or your team is down triple inhib(most of the time).
And then again their lategame is mediocre at best and you could´ve played a mage in the first place. {{champion:74}} {{champion:74}} {{champion:74}}
: Why is overtuning/buffing mage items a thing?
What I don´t understand are the three downvotes without a single word where or why I am mistaken. These are probably tilted midlane mains that feel offended rn. Or they don´t have enough time to comment. Which again would make no sense considering the fact they´ve had enough time to read through my post. {{sticker:sg-janna}}
: I hate that moderators can blatantly lie. They don't deserve the title if they don't even know how things actually work. No, someone does not have to say in chat that they're inting to be considered inting. That's just plain false. It's mainly about their score at the end of the game. 18 deaths in a 40 minute game, while bad, isn't unreasonable. 18 deaths in a 20 minute game would be considered inting given the evidence at hand. And that's the main issue. Only the KDA can really be used as evidence.
You´re trolling, right? Noone mentioned you have to type "I´m inting" or whatever in chat in order to be considered inting. Inting is **int**entional feed**ing** So the moment you plan on dying in order to assist the enemy, you´re inting. And no, not even dying twice a minute wouldt be inting as long as your lane opponent or whoever killed you while you tried your hardest.
crazÿ (EUW)
{{champion:51}} {{champion:42}} {{champion:81}} {{champion:222}} {{champion:145}} {{champion:429}} {{champion:96}} {{champion:15}} {{champion:18}} {{champion:29}} {{champion:110}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:498}} **Not viable** {{champion:22}} {{champion:119}} {{champion:21}} {{champion:202}} **Don´t live up to mage standards and therefore not good enough** {{champion:236}} **Perfectly viable** lol
: Janna is probably one of the most unfun champion right now
Hold on just a little longer, there are {{item:3504}} buffs coming.
crazÿ (EUW)
: yeah 13 champions only 1 adc
It´s literally the meta. Don´t blame me, blame the balance team or someone else. I´m just stating facts. lol
crazÿ (EUW)
: he want adc champion lol
lol {{champion:236}}
Airbend (EUNE)
: I said it many times i will say it again.There is no clear identety to champions in this game.There is no clear tanks, assasins, late game carrys, or mages.Every item need to give you - damage, tankines, mobility and some bulshitt passive that multiple all that.For example, you can go full tank Veigar and still get 800 AP just with {{item:3089}} and hard af to kill.
Do you prefer the term AP itemization?
: How to win more as ADC
{{champion:74}} {{champion:50}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:45}} {{champion:99}} {{champion:115}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:30}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:99}} {{champion:236}}
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=BoilTheOil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nBrXPEWh,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-12-13T22:45:17.447+0000) > > -3 ad graves was a decent nerf i keep hearing that but honestly, i dont see how... so it takes him 1 more shot per camp? ok... he already has a knockback. and if Ad change that small is REALLY much better on him than every other champs because how his pellets work, then a item like {{item:1036}} with even 10 AD with much more more effective on him than anyone else so he would crazy OP. dont get me wrong when they deleted celerity rune and i lose my 8 extra AP i need to pounce at least 1 extra time per camp.. and this increase my clear speed by ~20 seconds but thats only even and issue becuase thats 20 more second of me taking damage as a squishy champ which already has a horrible clear {{champion:104}} barely even takes a hit becuase of his knockback. and has a stupid easy clear and he gets extra armor on top of that... so i really dont see how losing 3 AD was _that_ much. i understand the slower clear time.. but your not taking extra damage.. your not losing dueling potential... and you're not a champion that is easily invaded. i understand thats is a nerf but and becuase of his pellets it affects him . i still think you guys are making out to be more than it is. AND the fact that HIS NERF was actively directed at nerfing him.
I don´t know what you´re talking about. Graves literally lost 3% winrate and about 15% pickrate over the course of the post nerf patch.


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