Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 20
Maybe shift some of Veigar's power to help him survive the laning phase at a cost of his late game? Like remove the CDR buff he got long time from getting stacks and give him some kind of mana refund and increase AP ratio of his Q to 0.7?
: Aside from removing him completely, which would be preferred, I think he needs a full rework that doesn't involve 400 dashes and a bullshit baby cage. But your idea sounds bad if only because it seems like Riot would need to be able to code properly to implement it, which I'm not too confident they can do :^)
> [{quoted}](name=Namenloses Licht,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=166lGlTm,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-06-20T06:36:21.902+0000) > > Aside from removing him completely, which would be preferred, I think he needs a full rework that doesn't involve 400 dashes and a bullshit baby cage. But your idea sounds bad if only because it seems like Riot would need to be able to code properly to implement it, which I'm not too confident they can do :^) His kit is fine tbf, he needs a bit of changes to make him feel less clunky, but overall he's okay, unlike other control mages, he only has 1 cc ability, sure it's powerful, but the rest of his kit is kinda shit compared to that, because of how a big part of his power budget was put there. He has 1 ability that doesn't do really do anything by itself (it's extremely easy to dodge if you aren't locked in an animation). Yes, I agree that playing something like Yasuo, Zac or Sylas into him can be a pain for the Yasuo/Sylas/Zac player, but Veigar is absolutely useless into 85% of the other matchups, if you are an ADC, you should never get into his range without being out of position, if you are a tank, you should get some MR so you can just ignore him, if you are a bruiser, get Legend: Tenacity and Mercs and just walk through his cage, if you are an assassin, just bait out W Q or the cage and kill him. What I'd like is making the cage a slow + grounding effect for 0.75 AP ratio on Q and mana refund. If we were to remove it entirely, his W needs a rework on top of that, it's a joke of an ability without the cage, also probably increase his range if so, because he'd much, much more vulnerable early than he already is.
: Missing Shaco Chroma
LPP chroma, only available via codes.
: I've had a blast playing the little evil guy as a support this season. Honestly I feel his scaling should be nerfed a little like they did with the thresh souls because even as a support it's possible to scale into mid game and wombo the squishies. I also think they should tweak his wall animation and speed up the fading so it vanishes completely once the duration is up, because even while it's fading it can still stun and that's super deceptive if you don't know about it. If you're having trouble with him in mid practice that last hitting with his Q to take advantage of his passive and take note that rabadon's death cap works wonders for a power spike if you've farmed his passive up well. On the flip side of full AP I've been running a glacial augment build for mobility advantage. When rushing twin shadows/hex and you can waddle to the enemies to your hearts content and trap them in your wall. The items give decent Ap, mana, and CDR and you can follow those 2 up with a deathcap still. Don't forget to grab that magic pen if they're getting tanky!
> [{quoted}](name=SlyTheFoxx,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=V3tOZqoq,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-06-08T13:37:52.326+0000) > > I've had a blast playing the little evil guy as a support this season. Honestly I feel his scaling should be nerfed a little like they did with the thresh souls because even as a support it's possible to scale into mid game and wombo the squishies. I also think they should tweak his wall animation and speed up the fading so it vanishes completely once the duration is up, because even while it's fading it can still stun and that's super deceptive if you don't know about it. > > If you're having trouble with him in mid practice that last hitting with his Q to take advantage of his passive and take note that rabadon's death cap works wonders for a power spike if you've farmed his passive up well. > > On the flip side of full AP I've been running a glacial augment build for mobility advantage. When rushing twin shadows/hex and you can waddle to the enemies to your hearts content and trap them in your wall. The items give decent Ap, mana, and CDR and you can follow those 2 up with a deathcap still. Don't forget to grab that magic pen if they're getting tanky! Well, people aren't quite the best in elo where they don't punish you for lack of mobility, range, squishyness.
Spotty (NA)
: why did they nerf veiger so much??
Veigar is bad in D+ and always has been except the one time when Spellbook was a thing which made his weaknesses not as bad as they are. Dw, Veigar will never be good until they rework him which I doubt it'll ever happen lel.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 7
So.... When are we reverting Veigar's W change which gives him CDR for stacks for better early game or more consistency?
: Veig's ult should be a skillshot
If we'd buff the reliability of his other spells like reducing delay of cage with R rank or making Q P&c again then maybe but otherwise no.
: My opinion on Patch 9.10 based off of Surrender@20
They probably won't nerf Yuumi because her AP ratios aren't an issue lel.
Galiö (NA)
: Passive changes are ok.. The Q changes are ok... I liked the MS steal also however... Not a big fan of the W changes... even with how 'boring' it was. Edit: his lack of bonus armor is going to hurt his thornmail synergy and his damage with E. And dramatically less tanky in a meta where tanks are slowly trying to be brought back up This can shoehorn him more into AP Q max malphite... but the ratio was dropped This sounds more painful than helpful
> [{quoted}](name=Galiö,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=WpJn3mE8,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-05-03T17:53:20.050+0000) > > Passive changes are ok.. > > The Q changes are ok... I liked the MS steal also however... > > Not a big fan of the W changes... even with how 'boring' it was. > > Edit: his lack of bonus armor is going to hurt his thornmail synergy and his damage with E. > > And dramatically less tanky in a meta where tanks are slowly trying to be brought back up > > This can shoehorn him more into AP Q max malphite... but the ratio was dropped > > This sounds more painful than helpful I feel like it's a nerf to his poking and gives him more damage over in extended fights with his W? At least that's what I think these changes are supposed to do, but I don't think it's good since so many bruisers would just beat him due to the presence of Conqueror anyway. I'm not really keen on these changes.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 3
I guess Veigar is gonna be left in the dumpster until 2021 at least.
: New Champ + Veigar
? XD? You can't say a champ infinitely scales since no games go on for an infinite amount of time. Even if he has 100000000 stacks it's still a "finite" amount of stacks. It seems like a nice combo since she'll get a nice portion of AP but that's about it.
Taimi (EUW)
: Well, ok. I still think it should not work like that, but if it is intended than so be it. I am neither good in the game, nor a game designer. So what do i know, right? But I do think they should make it clearer for everyone that this is an intendet feature. Because by just reading her abilities, one has to assume it is a bug. But thank you for your information.
This interaction is one of the reasons why I hate playing against a good Fiora, she'll just jump over your stun and beat you up.
: IS THERE Any Challengers in RIOT BALANCE TEAM ?
I don't think there's a Rioter that's higher than D2/1 in the balance team.
: Guardian Angel buff
Uh.... 0.75 seconds but not 3. Three is just too much.
: comps with non situational mobility anyway, cause you can still very well shit on a kled/yasuo/irelia with it.
Just go Klepto against Yasuo and farm the living crap out of him. Kled? Not really due to his ult. Irelia? Eh, maybe.
: I swear Glacial Augment is a fun as hell rune
It works into immobile comps, but let's be real, it doesn't do that much into comps with lots of mobility.
: Only?! Zhonya's is legit one of the strongest items in the game. ADs hardly have any choices that are even close to as good as Zhonya's and Banshee's
People really overestimate Zhonya's.....
Star WoIf (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Iron Four Veigar,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=BE56qAN1,comment-id=000a0000000100000000,timestamp=2019-04-05T18:13:37.204+0000) > > As someone who pretty much NEVER builds Zhonya's unless I'm forced to (Zed), I'd be fine with them reducing the invulnerability duration to 1.5 and increasing the cd to 180 as a trade of giving the item like +20 armor and like +5 AP. Honestly, the item is already disgustingly efficient and that's just the seeker's armguard component, I think it doesn't even need a compensation buff and it'd still be viable even if they made those changes to it. But being honest its a pretty unhealthy item. Damage, Resistances, CDR, Amazing active. Just my 2 cents
I mean, personally I'd just prefer an item that gives like 60 AP, 60 Armor and like 200 hp without anything else attached to it for 3000 gold.
J Eevo (EUNE)
: Lotsa thoughts and questions as I've thought a lot about this before: {{item:3030}} - Can't remember when I saw last anyone build it, and there's a dilemma I imagine - On one hand it'd be good to have viable branching paths for lost chapter - Luden's become way too common nowadays with the nerf to archangel so you could still try to push it in this style, on the other hand users of older glp prefered it to be the survi/HP option and you DID mention a lack of ap bruiser items so you could just try backtracking on it and having it be the hp/ap item again, Thoughts? {{item:3802}} branching path In general is pretty lackluster considering the context in which it was introduced of this choice you get to have after you get it - now it's luden's 90% of the time, and if you're ryze or cassio you get archangel, seems pretty lame. Same could be said with {{item:3086}} options, the choice is pretty bland, though it has a different problem - the items are really samey, and that's kinda lame, any thoughts on how you'll aproach this? {{item:3153}} and {{item:3124}} Being the definitive purchase of a LOT of champs because it's like a one item that has everything you want in life. Bork is the one I actually find the more offensive as it's theoretically an anti tank option, but you literally just build it every game regardless of the targets you'll be hitting because it's just so good and synergises so well with everything, Are we gonna get some decoupling like with {{item:3151}} comes to mind where it had mpen and %damage, with now it being two separate options? perhaps some new on hit item, and a separate anti tank item instead of the amalgam of good options that is bork? >Unhealthy items, meaning items that massively reduce or remove counterplay against a champion Uh, anything to do with {{item:3161}} like fringe cases of "permacounterstrike Jax gets to ignore adcs for 30 seconds"
GLP is picked up if you run Glacial (rarely) and by Veigar if he's running Electrocute or Phase Rush. I feel like if they just made it's bolts go through targets and explode by the end once again, it'd be fine.
: > [{quoted}](name=Iron Four Veigar,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=BE56qAN1,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2019-04-05T17:46:37.357+0000) > > Duskblade is way more unhealthy and Seeker's is completely fine as the only armor option for mages that also needs to be stacked to be effective. I agree on Stopwatch, although it's more unhealthy on assassins rather than mages. Zhonya is really weak without it's active, I really dislike Zhonya's because it breaks AP divers (Sylas, Kassadin, Akali, LeBlanc) but mages with it are FINE. Duskblade is not cost efficient (~91%) and offers little compared to the complete package that is seeker's armguard, which is ~94% cost efficient unstacked, up to ~151% when fully stacked (5 waves). This item offers a huge tempo swing, and is enough to negate a full lethality item early game. The stasis effect is fine, if it is locked behind an unfavorable build path like it used to have in the past (chain vest + 1600 gold needlessly large rod), which punished the early rush, especially with mana being much bigger of an issue for mages early game back then. Now it's the complete package with CDR, AP and armor with one of the strongest defensive actives, and a comfortable build path for early game. Mages are disgusting due to how their items are basically good all around rather than good at specific areas.
It isn't cost efficient but it's unhealthy due to the fact that it favors instantly bursting the enemy, detecting vision and allowing you to remove it on a fairly short cd (90 seconds). I never said broken or way better than mage items, it's just simply unhealthy.
Koranza (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Iron Four Veigar,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=hORFL8n0,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-05T18:04:53.495+0000) > > Nope, you'll never reach Gold 5, I'm sorry friend. :/ wtfff why???
> [{quoted}](name=Koranza,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=hORFL8n0,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-04-05T18:12:12.027+0000) > > wtfff why??? You simply can't, it doesn't exist.
Alzon (NA)
: I mean, look at Rumble’s build for a good example. He gets pretty beefy just by building straight damage purely because he doesn’t need CDR. Imagine if Rylai’s built out of Fiendish Codex and had 10% CDR, RoA gave 10% CDR at full stacks, and the Haste items only granted 10% CDR each. This way, mages are more incentivized to build HP early and aren’t forced into rushing Luden’s every game. Also, Rylai’s becomes more attractive as a support item. I feel like Zhonya’s and Banshee’s overlap, actually. Both are used more for their unique effects than for their stats. Hell, if it weren’t for their ults, no one would need to upgrade Seeker’s into Zhonya’s against Talon or Zed. This should change. Power needs to be removed from these two items’ unique effects and put back into their raw defenses, defining them as AP-resistance items instead of AP-stasis/spellshield items.
As someone who pretty much NEVER builds Zhonya's unless I'm forced to (Zed), I'd be fine with them reducing the invulnerability duration to 1.5 and increasing the cd to 180 as a trade of giving the item like +20 armor and like +5 AP.
Koranza (NA)
: Will I ever get Gold 5? I'm a trihard and I need some KFC......
Nope, you'll never reach Gold 5, I'm sorry friend. :/
Alzon (NA)
: They’re stuck building the same things not because there are a lack of options, but because the options are typically inferior. Moving CDR around would be the easiest way to fix this, IMO.
Actually, there aren't any AP items that give armor or MR outside of Banshee's and Zhonya's/Seeker's. Okay, Athene's exist but come on, it's not really a mage item. EDIT: Ofc, there are items like Abyssal Mask but in the current meta and after the nerfs, they are just severely outclassed by their raw AP counterparts and underwhelming due to the lack of offensive stats (your damage really goes down if you build Abyssal Mask instead of Banshee's for example).
: {{item:3157}} is pretty unhealthy. {{item:3191}} is too cheap for what it does and {{item:2423}} shouldn't even exist. Nothing like having mages, tanks, adcs bruisers all have a get out of jail free card because {{item:2423}} builds into an item for everyone.
Duskblade is way more unhealthy and Seeker's is completely fine as the only armor option for mages that also needs to be stacked to be effective. I agree on Stopwatch, although it's more unhealthy on assassins rather than mages. Zhonya is really weak without it's active, I really dislike Zhonya's because it breaks AP divers (Sylas, Kassadin, Akali, LeBlanc) but mages with it are FINE.
: Item Shop Cleanup
Also, can we add more diversity to armor/MR items for mages? As of now, we only have Zhonya's and Banshee's as our defensive choices.
: Item Shop Cleanup
Any examples of items you want to remove?
Monlyth (NA)
: What if every skill had the same cooldown regardless of level?
Lvl 1 5 sec cd Q ayyyy, but honestly, it would lead to some strange situations, like Pyke with his Q on an 8 sec cd at lvl 1. Vlad using his Q much more often to trade/sustain etc.
Mortdog (NA)
: Summoner's Rift balance changes coming Patch 9.8
> Veigar: +133.7 stacks of Phenomenal Evil at game start Lit
: Matchmaking is Completely Fucked and I Hate it.
: Cat vs Dog
It'd be low quality though :/ Especially that we've got some quality skins and an VFX recently making Bad Santa and base looks so nice. Model wise... eh..
Rustypug (NA)
: mordekaiser rework voiceline ideas
Don't touch the pure boi Veigar D:
Moody P (NA)
: The new ult has shifted him from "I kill mages well" to "I kill anyone well given enough time." This is not very valuable; there are plenty of champs who can get to kill anyone with much less time required to be relevant, and often provide other/better overall utility than Veigar. I would also say its more frustrating than before as it removes Veigars issue of poor target access; previously he could only get max damage on an enemy mage that usually out ranged him. Now it's anyone who Veigar wants to ult he can probably kill easily, and the only issue is whether or not he's wasting his ult on them at that point. It doesn't need to be a direct revert but I think some mechanic that at least returns the niche is the best thing you could do. Even if that required some extra steps I would say it would be a net positive. I actually have M7 on Veigar myself; I used to play mid lane before season 5 and he was in my top 3 picks. I would be very interested in him becoming strong again.
The thing is, after 20 minutes Veigar's R always overkills people if they're below 50% hp, sometimes if you're very fed it can kill people up from 75% hp which is like 100-105% AP ratio, ofc after the change your AP would probably go down by about 90-100 at 25-30 mins but his laning phase would be better. I pretty much never get the full damage from Veigar's R (usually it's about 120% which is just like before the change) and most of the time it overkills a squishy by anywhere around from 600 to 700 damage. So no, bringing back his old ult wouldn't be necessarily healthy with the damage creep we currently have.
Moody P (NA)
: Killing mages is not an issue.
Not mages. Look, 155% AP worth of damage to anyone (old R had 120% AP ratio against everyone + it scaled off 80% of enemy's AP), combined with the current powercreep of damage items would make his R just one shot absolutely any squishy at 20 minutes with his R.
Moody P (NA)
: His R should be reverted to scaling off of enemy AP. It gave him a noticeable niche as an anti carry pick who punished the 800-1k AP mages for their glass cannon builds. Without that niche Veigar relies too heavily on just being high tuned himself to be worth picking. Classic burst mages like him and Annie are obsolete in season 9 so adding an extra caveat to give him value is much needed.
The issue is that it'd go back to Veigar one shotting people with R by just going Predator and Luden's. 120% AP combined with 35% AP via Luden's and Predator would make his R deal a crap load of damage, so I don't think it's a good idea.
: So basically you want to revert Veigar? :P
That's basically it except the R and E but oh well. Oh, and his Q is still a skillshot.
: Any thoughts on the current state of the length? I'm normally not one to complain about short games but the majority feel over by 20-30 minutes. This hurts scaling picks pretty badly imo.
Over by 20-30 but decided by 8-10.
en2que (EUW)
: Riot pls... Pull the bounty "changes"
Picking Veigar is already inting though.
: [Gameplay] Pantheon ignores Event Horizon
It happens with some dashes, not sure why, probably because of the 10 years old code on his abilities.
: Yasuo, Veigar, or Leblanc?
LeBlanc, Veigar is way too easy to punish if your opponent knows how he works.
JuiceBoxP (EUNE)
: Fix your broken game, Riot
The hook examples are the effects of lollipopping (at the end of the hook it turns into a circle and seeks the nearest champ.... Don't ask why) the Draven one is just broken hitboxes...
: Can we go back to the trinity mages? Make them ultra strong again and let them dominate mid
: Abyssal mask magic damage radius
Veigar doesn't build it, sometimes I get Abyssal Mask just to get some MR because of all of the other items are absolute crap or I just dislike them (Banshee's against assassins is useless, Spirit Visage can be an option but I don't really like it even though it has synergy with Ravenous Hunter and Taste of Blood, you can't use Adaptive Helm effectively because you have to be consistently damaged by somebody).
: Veigar needs some tough love from Riot
I agree that Veigar needs changes, but it's more about nerfing his late game (removing the stupid W cdr buff) and buffing his early game. Another option would be to give him more consistency but that would probably require him to be reworked again. Veigar as it is now is BAD, the only thing that he has going for him is the 2800 gold spike with GLP and then later on Rabadon to support his mid game by a large margin, but most of the time, games are decided before he even gets 4k gold. He has no lane priority, does absolutely nothing till 6 and even then he isn't really a threat till lvl 11. IF Riot wants him to make him a late game champ, he needs some SERIOUS changes, without returning power to his cage or making his abilities more consistent, he'll never be that amazing in the late game as for example Kai'Sa or Viktor or anything like that. He has always been a mid game champ ever since he was released only maybe being pretty good late game during the preseason 8 meta where everything slowed down and we had spellbook which helped him survive the laning phase.
: I would personally change Veigar's kit a little but with mostly the same concept. P - Take 20% of your current HP & exchange it for 20% mana Q - Gain 1 stack per minion killed & steal 1 AP from the enemy champion if you hit them, (can only be proc'd every 120 seconds.) W - Same E- Remove stun, anyone in the E gets their max HP reduced by 3,5,10,15,20% (lvl) anyone who leaves gets slowed by 20% (enemies inside of the E will have their damage increased by 10%) R - Keep R the same but instead of AP ratio & execute at lower hp targets make it scale off of how many Q stacks you have increasing the ability to execute. His current passive isn't really crazy so putting something like hp/mp swap would make it have more risk with more rewards His Q pretty much would be the same but the ability to steal 1 AP from an enemy could grasp his him being more of a mid lane mage that wants to kill everyone. The E has a lot of neat things but also at a price since lore states he has habit of helping people by accident debuffing the enemy and buffing them at the same time could be neat. R making it scale souly off of Q stacks means if they dont know how to farm it'll take them longer in the game to really shine leaving more counterplay for early game.
So....... make him absolutely useless?
Juice (EUNE)
: Once you get to high elo (plat 4+) you will realize what I'm talking about
? This account is P1 with 80% wr? I never said that Vayne needs nerfs, it's just that your arguments make no sense. (Btw, plat players are disgustingly bad.)
Juice (EUNE)
: Riot, if you nerf Vayne I am quitting the game
> Vayne is hard to play, players who have dedicated enough time to gain a positive win rate with Vayne should be rewarded Stats say otherwise > Vayne has 1% less win rate on top than she has as an ADC in bot lane, what does that tell us? That tells us that ADCs are underpowered compared to top laners (just think about it) ? A champ that isn't intended to be in that role has lower wr than in it's main role? What a surprise > There is always gonna be an OP champ in any role, why shouldn't it be Vayne ? Why should it be? > Vayne is the most fun champion to watch competitively and on streams because of her consistent ability to 1v5 (Riven comes close second) I disagree wholeheartedly. > Vayne depends on the support, that's why I always have to duo with my 1 million mastery points Thresh partner No shit that ADC's rely on their supports early, they have to balanced around that > Vayne is squishy, so even tho old tactic of pink warding her doesn't work - the other time tested method of countering any overpowered champion still works - you should just CC her JUST CC THEM :^) > She is popular and sells skins Many people own the prestigious Vayne skin Irrelevant > It's difficult to condemn people into the wall sometimes So? > She can be outplayed if she dives 1v2 I think it should be the other way around, she should be the one trying to outplay rather than the duo > She only has 5 escapes (Tumble, Condemn, Heal, Flash, Botrk) Bork and Heal aren't really escapes but for the love of God this is more of an argument against your point. > Her invisibility doesn't last as long as Twitch's invisibility But it's up every 1.2 seconds and gives you a damage boost for the next auto > Her W doesn't deal the same amount of damage as other executes such as Garen's R It's much easier to proc, does % max hp damage and can shred tanks with Guinsoo's > It's easy to missclick with Vayne when you have high APM most advanced Vayne players have ? > Vayne has the potential to 1v5 at any given moment, but it doesn't always work out No champ should be able to 1v5 at any given moment, only if they're significantly ahead and in a hands of a very good player. > She has a short range (just look at Tristana and Caitlyn aa range and then tell me again Vayne is OP?) She makes up for it with mobility and DPS. Anyway, I assume your post was meant to be sarcastic but it didn't work out bud.
: How is Conqueror doing after the nerfs? Edit: Anything planned for the jungle?
Just make another rework for the jungle by giving them more gold and xp in the jungle and remove scuttle crab.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 15
Can we remove the band-aid CDR on Veigar's Dark Matter and give him +10 damage on Q and some base stat buffs?
: > [{quoted}](name=Iron Four Veigar,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Pen4n0ri,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-03-15T13:38:35.548+0000) > > {{champion:45}} .... I suffer from anxiety and depression Sarry to hear that friend :(
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Iron Four Veigar

Level 43 (EUW)
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