: > [{quoted}](name=Jørgensen,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3vZNVo3A,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-04T20:49:07.892+0000) > > [Sure, here's a board post.](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/OZjuk1Xd-let-me-be-a-lesson-to-any-of-you-who-are-in-a-difficult-spot-in-your-life-right-now) Interesting. I've legitimately never seen this before. >As you can see, he got a reduction to a 14 day suspension. I think that's nice and he totally deserves that chance. But if it can pass for him, how can it not pass for others? I see that it could be abused, but I was told no-go so I just think it's kinda unfair that others get the chance. My guess from that post is that he had a very specific situation which he explained politely and in depth, and I'll also point out that we don't know the extent of the toxicity that got him punished, or the circumstances surrounding it. Frankly, I can't say more save that I guess, from this, that Riot's team is allowed to exercise some discretion in handling tickets, but avoids this as a policy because of how easily it can get out of hand.
I would like to point out on my first suspension ever I also wrote an in depth message to Riot but I was told no and there's no reason what so ever to behave a certain way. From mild to extreme causes, toxicity is not allowed. Which is completely fine, but those rules should apply to everyone and should not be able to "change in certain circumstances". So there I would say they took context into matter, but for someone like me it didn't matter. And that's why I say it should matter for everyone or no-one. Sorry if I sound salty about being banned and not given a second chance, of course I can't confirm if I deserve one or not. I just personally think I always have been given the middle finger from my worst offenses to my mildest. So seeing others being unbanned from whatever they've done makes the system seem flawed and unfair towards certain people.
Kei143 (NA)
: Let's have you look at things from another direction (if you are willing), and keep in mind I haven't looked at your logs and talking from a holistic point of view. Think of the punishments and behavior System as buckets of paint. Each time you get reported, the system checks for toxicity, if there is toxicity found, then you add some red paint into the bucket. Add white paint into the same bucket if no toxicity was found. Every game you play, it would increase or decrease the concentration of red, and if you pass a certain concentration of red, you'll get punished. Context doesn't matter cos everyone has their own buckets. If they were found to be toxic in that game, they would get red paint in their bucket. When you counter attack someone's flame, you are also contributing to the flame, so both you and the flamer will be found toxic, and both people get red paint in their buckets. Another example: In soccer, if playerA tackles playerB wrongly, and playerB gets up and pushes playerA, both will get a yellow card. If playerB wanted to get playerA in trouble, don't push back and just let the referees do their thing.
I get that, I am aware how the system works. My post is mainly to cast some light on the other side of the system trying to get some insight on how it is being the player who were issued a ban vs. the people who ban those guys. I am not saying all banned people are innocent or deserve a second chance etc. But sometimes, I feel like bans are issued too fast and people just look down on those who are punished. And that's mainly because context is not taken into account. But your comment was really descriptive and well written, I also appreciate the no-hate towards me because I stand out as a toxic person. So thank you.
: > [{quoted}](name=Jørgensen,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3vZNVo3A,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-04T20:20:42.356+0000)I do not see why some people suffering permanent suspensions should be allowed second chances and others get told "there is no way we will lift this for a second chance". Can you name *any* situation in which this has happened? The only times I am aware of this occurring are for bans that were incorrectly applied or unusual edge cases (a punishment somehow triggering from pre-suspension games immediately after a suspension ended). Legitimately curious here. > With that being said, I am decently okay with being banned. I am just trying to raise some awareness to context being an important factor and Riot shouldn't put things in boxes like so. Frankly, I fail to see how they can do anything but. Saying "context matters" means that Riot has to be the final arbiter of every case that is argued, and draw lines of when context is and isn't acceptable, and that's a hornet's nest no company wants to get involved with. Plus, as the old Tribunal showed, the *players* don't think context matters. Toxic behavior was invariably punished, regardless of the presence or absence of toxicity in the chat in question. That is why the current system was built the way it was -- the players showed Riot they didn't consider toxicity acceptable in *any* circumstances, so Riot accommodated that.
> Can you name any situation in which this has happened? The only times I am aware of this occurring are for bans that were incorrectly applied or unusual edge cases (a punishment somehow triggering from pre-suspension games immediately after a suspension ended). Legitimately curious here. [Sure, here's a board post.](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/OZjuk1Xd-let-me-be-a-lesson-to-any-of-you-who-are-in-a-difficult-spot-in-your-life-right-now) As you can see, he got a reduction to a 14 day suspension. I think that's nice and he totally deserves that chance. But if it can pass for him, how can it not pass for others? I see that it could be abused, but I was told no-go so I just think it's kinda unfair that others get the chance. I am not trying to create a sob story, but I have a hard time in my life as him. I just don't try and use it as an excuse and by saying that I am not saying he's just making excuses. Though as well as him, people have their own battles in life and I can relate to some of his.
: I guess too many permabans have blinded you to what being a civil human being is. Isn't that like a waste of money tho? buying or lvling that many accounts then buying skins just to end up being permabanned
Honestly, that response is nothing but just trying to pour salt in the wound. Calling me a non-civil human being in itself doesn't make you "any better than me" in toxicity if you're trying to act better for not having a permanent suspension on yourself. Of course I am civil, everyone can have a bad day and go out of line and I take responsibility for that. This example I posted is one of many. But this one I do not think I was any way out of line nor deserved a permanent suspension. Everything else, I accepted and moved on from. About skins, not really. I have enough money and I like League of Legends despite it all. I have no problem giving money towards development on this game and from what I see coming in pre-season I think everything is going in a good way. Besides I don't "collect" skins I only buy ones I really like which sadly are mostly legacy.
: > [{quoted}](name=Jørgensen,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3vZNVo3A,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-11-04T19:39:53.183+0000)I can agree with this to some extent, though context does indeed heavily matter which is the whole point of this board post. Then let me ask this question: why should there be exceptions made to the rule "treat other people respectfully?" Do you believe that someone being a rude person somehow means that you being rude back is suddenly the expected and respectable course of action? If not, why does it exempt you from the expectation of that behavior? >But I must say this one I cannot see any form of excessive bad behavior. The thing is that permanent bans aren't just for *excessive* bad behavior. They're also for *consistent* bad behavior and, if you had a 14-day ban previously, you *were* given a final warning. The permanent ban is for toxicity without reformation, not simply something reserved for the worst of the worst. I believe this is a common misunderstanding of the permanent ban -- Riot's stance is that *toxicity is not allowed*, not that *only serious toxicity is not allowed*.
I do not say there should be a change in when it's okay to treat other players with respect vs. not. I am just saying, I think it's weird that Riot takes context in to matter sometimes and other times not. I do not see why some people suffering permanent suspensions should be allowed second chances and others get told "there is no way we will lift this for a second chance". It's either, or - when I received my first suspension ever I also contacted Riot about it and was told that no matter how much I regret it I would have to create myself a new account because no suspensions are ever lifted unless they're wrongly applied. With that being said, I am decently okay with being banned. I am just trying to raise some awareness to context being an important factor and Riot shouldn't put things in boxes like so. And even if they do, just inform people that you're not safe even with a 5 man premade like I was told by the support. But thanks for the insightful comment, I appreciate it.
: > Jørgensen: just gonna mute, cant argue with idiots. > Jørgensen: bye nerd > Jørgensen: thats a sad life > Jørgensen: nah, its fun to trigger kids like him to make sure they get a ban Even assuming the context on everything you said was 100% accurate, that's no excuse for calling people kids, idiots, nerds, or calling their lives sad. >to this I responded no that I would rather keep talking to him (non-toxic) to keep him triggered so he would most likely get a ban for his behavior because it was seriously not alright. This is also reportable behavior -- intentionally trying to anger your opponents is unsportsmanlike behavior, and the system can often detect it if it's reported.
> Even assuming the context on everything you said was 100% accurate, that's no excuse for calling people kids, idiots, nerds, or calling their lives sad. I can agree with this to some extent, though context does indeed heavily matter which is the whole point of this board post. I just can't see myself or any other person being banned over responding to people who are extremely toxic. 1. Saying I was gonna mute because I couldn't argue with idiots was because of the enemy trying to provoke me alongside Xin. 2. Bye nerd was escaping certain death, there was 0 hostility meant and everyone even Xin knew that. 3. "That's a sad life" - This one I cannot defend and I take that one on me, but that's still one offense to a permanent suspension. > This is also reportable behavior -- intentionally trying to anger your opponents is unsportsmanlike behavior, and the system can often detect it if it's reported. I know that this is reportable behavior, but I think I must have phrased it wrong. I don't expect anyone to believe me or not, but I simply chose not to mute Xin because I'd rather have him keep going at me so he would end up being banned instead of taking this onto further games. It's not like I had a plan in my head to _get_ him banned. I just expected him to. I do take responsibility for my actions, I truly do which is also why I haven't had any complaints towards my other accounts. But I must say this one I cannot see any form of excessive bad behavior.
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Jørgensen

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