: It's been all over the ranked games I've played over the last day and a half, but I haven't really seen it in unranked, so it might be a tier thing. Lots of people are building demon sorcerers rn so it seems like it emerged to counter that. Also, I used two of them myself today and I can't be certain, but it certainly seemed like they were stacking.
Counter to gunslingers, the Ionic procs constantly because of Tristana and Lucian and ends up killing them. Ionic is on the cards for a nerf as it's overperforming.
: IT'S NOT ABOUT CLIMBING ARE YOU READING A SINGLE ONE OF MY POSTS? THE ACT OF CLIMBING ITSELF IS FRUSTRATING. AM I NOT ALLOWED TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THAT?
Yes I am reading your posts and all I'm seeing is entitlement. If you think climbing is frustrating (which it actually isn't, no promos, no troll team mates) that's because you aren't learning and too busy blaming everything on other factors other than the one constant You. If you aren't climbing, it's nothing to do with luck.
Nea104 (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Janna Me Fiddle,realm=EUW,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=WVlEXhUg,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-28T20:55:19.031+0000) > > You can plan for comps by looking at what your opponents have, how they're all positioning and what items they have. You can plan, but only statistically, and it's a pretty wide statistics (ie. RNG). Positioning means nothing, since you have 7-6-5-4.. random opponents. And when you get to the final duels, you cannot change your comp anymore; just minor changes in positioning, indeed, but since your opponent will likely do the same, and will move his troops until the very last second, it's still random. > Early looking can make a difference as to planning what comp you go and what you deny. Taking Aatroxes and Kennens out of the pool and holding onto them can deny power spikes for instance and even force them off of comps Yes, and still your actual composition will be strongly influenced by the cards you get. You can have some partial influence, but it's indeed very partial. > If you see a lot of folks using Assassins, you know to shift your positioning so your backline is protected, if you see a lot of glacials, you space them out, if demons, you put your least relevant unit to the front as bait. You plan against the majority and tech against the others later. No, it doesn't work this way: you space your guys in order to face glacials, and you randomly get an assassin opponent. Or vice versa. You can "plan against the majority", but it's still gambling in a major portion. Plus, don't forget that some combinations (Knights..) are awful, and other ones are broken. So you still are compelled to look for busted champs no matter what, and to skip others no matter what. (anyway, RNG- based still doesn't mean you can play it blindfolded :P)
> [{quoted}](name=Nea104,realm=EUW,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=WVlEXhUg,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-29T01:52:13.063+0000) > > You can plan, but only statistically, and it's a pretty wide statistics (ie. RNG). Positioning means nothing, since you have 7-6-5-4.. random opponents. > And when you get to the final duels, you cannot change your comp anymore; just minor changes in positioning, indeed, but since your opponent will likely do the same, and will move his troops until the very last second, it's still random. > Positioning can mean the difference between a heavy wipe or getting it down to the last unit. Mitigating loss (stalling) can be the difference between you getting to a power spike point or dying just before it. > Yes, and still your actual composition will be strongly influenced by the cards you get. > You can have some partial influence, but it's indeed very partial. > I've won games by grabbing 2 Aatroxes out of the pool and holding them, my team was strong enough to beat down the level 2 aatrox, had I left the Aatroxes in the pool, it would have increased the likelihood of the other guy getting Aatrox 3 and winning. Denying pieces is a legit strategy especially in the final 4. > No, it doesn't work this way: you space your guys in order to face glacials, and you randomly get an assassin opponent. Or vice versa. > You can "plan against the majority", but it's still gambling in a major portion. > It's how you stack that matters. currently one of the most effective position strategies is to line up with a disposable unit at the front and a disposable unit farthest away, your core pieces are in the center. > Plus, don't forget that some combinations (Knights..) are awful, and other ones are broken. So you still are compelled to look for busted champs no matter what, and to skip others no matter what. > > > (anyway, RNG- based still doesn't mean you can play it blindfolded :P) Knights are getting buffed, some Knights aren't actually too bad (Sej and Poppy are pretty solid, Garen is good if you're going nobles, Darius is good if you're going Imperials) the synergy itself is poor and the units are more a supplement to whatever comp you're looking toward.
: I am so fucking sick of people telling me to stop complaining about something I don't like and to just get good. >I will say you're both complaining about something that's completely in your control this is blatantly false. I cannot control the number of items I get at the start of the game. I cannot control the pace of my own game, only the amount of items that I get can. >Finishing top 4 is your RNG balancing measure. If you're having constant big swings in your games (1st/8th/7th/1st/8th) it's not RNG, it's your consistency. for the record, I do tend to finish in 4th, but that doesn't make getting rekt by a dude with 4 more items than you any less frustrating. Awful RNG feels awful, regardless of the place you finish in the game. I don't want to be battling against the game I'm playing, I want to be battling against the players. >Consistency carried me to Plat, I've had awful starts and scraped top 4 finishes, I've had games where I've had complete blowouts and come 8th (everyone has them, even GM players) but if you're consistent you will climb. this isn't about climbing, it is about frustration. >You don't see the likes of Phil Ivey bemoaning RNG in Texas hold em do you? ??? What kind of comparison is this? The RNG in texas hold 'em is literally built into the fundamental mechanics of the game, it would not be the same if you removed the RNG from it. But TFT would still be TFT if everyone was given the same amount of items. TFT would still be TFT if some kind fo pseudo-randomness to the matchmaking system was implemented, so you can't fight the same person a ton of times in a row. TFT would still be TFT if the carousel wasn't partially luck based.
Okay, you're complaining for complaining sake. There is drop protection in the game, if someone gets loads of items at the first creeps, they get gold at a later creep round. If you get only gold or one item, you get more items from drop protection at a later round. You play around what you get, you can't win every game so you play for top 4 as I've told you before. There are people in Grandmasters with 19% win rate, so yes, I wasn't going to say it, but it's blatantly you that's the reason you're bronze and not climbing. Now, either learn the mode or don't play because you'll never climb if you won't learn.
Nea104 (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Terozu,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=WVlEXhUg,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-07-28T18:36:58.947+0000) > > Tactics refers to proper positioning. > > So since positioning is literally the _only_ skill thing available, it works. You **don't and can't know** who are you gonna face(*), so you can't plan anything... Therefore, there's no tactics involved :P Only pre-made stuff. (*): in the very last rounds, when there are only 2 or 3 people left, you actually could plan something, BUT... your opponents are still gonna move their troops too, so it's still random / pre-made stuff ^^
You can plan for comps by looking at what your opponents have, how they're all positioning and what items they have. Early looking can make a difference as to planning what comp you go and what you deny. Taking Aatroxes and Kennens out of the pool and holding onto them can deny power spikes for instance and even force them off of comps If you see a lot of folks using Assassins, you know to shift your positioning so your backline is protected, if you see a lot of glacials, you space them out, if demons, you put your least relevant unit to the front as bait. You plan against the majority and tech against the others later.
: "RNG has no bearing on the game because everyone experiences the same RNG" "But that doesn't make the RNG less frustrating to experience" "Shut up you bronzie idiot"
It's not hard to rank check complainers. I won't pull you down for being Bronze or the OP for being Silver, I will say you're both complaining about something that's completely in your control and are likely just throwing because you didn't get what you wanted. like Hunters would in HS if they didn't get a perfect opening hand. Finishing top 4 is your RNG balancing measure. If you're having constant big swings in your games (1st/8th/7th/1st/8th) it's not RNG, it's your consistency. Consistency carried me to Plat, I've had awful starts and scraped top 4 finishes, I've had games where I've had complete blowouts and come 8th (everyone has them, even GM players) but if you're consistent you will climb. It's what people keep trying to tell you, RNG balances itself out, you'll have unlucky games, you'll have lucky games, the common factor is you and how you adapt to the hand you're given. You don't see the likes of Phil Ivey bemoaning RNG in Texas hold em do you?
: > [{quoted}](name=Janna Me Fiddle,realm=EUW,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=0JL7IMEr,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-28T19:21:54.170+0000) > > Trist is easy to deal with though because Gunslingers have several weaknesses: > > 1. Low late game agency. Slingers have terrible scaling compared to other comps, especially in regards to damage and health. They're strong early but weak late. > > 2. Focus on one hyper carry unit. Slingers are all about stacking the hell out of Tristana and praying she gets shrinks off, if she doesn't the comp dies, can easily be teched against by dropping a {{champion:53}}. Blitz is easily countered by good positioning, there are places he can never hope to reach. > 3. Extremely vulnerable to Ionic spark. Because Tristana and Lucians mana bars build quickly, they get off a lot of abilities, the more abilities they use, the more Ionic spark procs. Gunslingers have low hp and effectively end up killing themselves by constantly triggering Ionic spark. This is true and i played against it myself so i know its good, but you need at least 2 of them as i was able to brutally beat the few people i met who had just 1. > 4. Cannot deal with Yordle comps. Even with RFC on Trist by the time they start shrinking, Trist is alone because Kennen and Poppy have usually wiped the front line. Kennen and poppy basically dont do that much damage though? Phantom dancer+warmog+resistance item against the main damage carry and your frontline wont die against yordles because they lack damage.......hells the only time i see a yordle comp really do well later on is when they have a gold veigar. > It's why Slingers aren't getting nerfed but Demons are. Demons are much harder to counter than Slingers and are strong all game long. And yet gunslingers is likely the most played and powerful comp currently in play. Just look at the boards post i linked, was like 5 outa 7 or something running them, then it was a demon or a sorcerer if memory serves.
> [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=0JL7IMEr,comment-id=00050000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-28T19:37:30.515+0000) > > Blitz is easily countered by good positioning, there are places he can never hope to reach. > > This is true and i played against it myself so i know its good, but you need at least 2 of them as i was able to brutally beat the few people i met who had just 1. > > Kennen and poppy basically dont do that much damage though? Phantom dancer+warmog+resistance item against the main damage carry and your frontline wont die against yordles because they lack damage.......hells the only time i see a yordle comp really do well later on is when they have a gold veigar. > > And yet gunslingers is likely the most played and powerful comp currently in play. > > Just look at the boards post i linked, was like 5 outa 7 or something running them, then it was a demon or a sorcerer if memory serves. Kennen with Morellos, Poppys damage is greatly underestimated, the issue again, is Demon synergy being overpowered and manaburn proccing far too easily/often (as you just admitted, they're putting in Demons to get the demon synergy for the manaburn which is artificially making the comp stronger than it is without demon) It's also far easier to build double Ionic spark and a morellos than it is to get PD/WM/CLAW plus RFC/CB/CB. Edit: Also to note, play rate doesn't equal win rate. If 5/7 players are running Slingers, they will eliminate themselves by drawing from the same pool and gimping their build. Yordles are not as heavily contested with the exception of Kennen (because he's laughably broken right now) and you can easily get a single Trist early on just for synergy while building Kennen and Veigar as your carries.
: TFT just reminded me why I quit Hearthstone
> [{quoted}](name=5 Dollar Holler,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=WVlEXhUg,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-07-28T12:35:23.700+0000) > > It was so frustrating in TFT, being the winner of a game, and then the next game getting hosed with things like no items in the first three minion waves - all gold - and/or not getting your first 2-star from the 1-2 costs you're working on until after Krugs. The RNG is insane in its ebb and flow, and then I realized, hey isn't this why I quit Hearthstone and went to games more focused on skill than dice rolling? > > Making that connection is significant, in that now I can play normal League and throw TFT to the birds. Mate, if it was all RNG with my luck I'd be wallowing in Iron. It isn't all RNG, it's about planning, strategy and positioning, using what is available to you.
Barkley (NA)
: If you took this away from elise there would legitimately be no reason to buy her, though. This is the ONLY good thing about Elise. Everything else she does, someone else does better. Shapeshifter? Gnar is better. Shyv is better. Nidalee is better. Swain is better. Demon? Pick a different demon -- they're better. (Evelynn is probably just as trash) I wouldn't mind if they got rid of elise's extra damage IF they allowed her spiders to apply on-hit effects. But since her spiders don't apply on-hit effects -- this is kinda the only thing she's got goin for her, bud.
They apply Demon burn which is already incredibly strong. She's a one cost unit, one costs should not be performing at the same level as some 3 costs which Elise absolutely is because of the bonus player damage.
: > [{quoted}](name=Support Probably,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=0JL7IMEr,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-07-28T17:15:15.247+0000) > > I've seen more Elises in late game than Knights/Nobles/Tristana lately. Kassadin, no she doesn't compare to how good he is, but that's another thread. > > She's not trash. She's a one cost unit who has a 2-4x more chance to mana burn than any other demon. Even if she was trash, having her spiderlings do 1/3 of your MAX health at the end of the turn is not the way to balance her. You havent seen Tristana? With pirate/gunslinger or gunslinger/blade master being bascially the most broken teamcomps in existence as of now? https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/es/c/teamfight-tactics/kgfHRubL-current-state-of-high-elo-tft-in-20-seconds?show=flat As for not seeing any nobles and few Knights.....i mean yeah, you dont go for pure nobles unless you think you can pull off the 6 nobles (needs both kayle and leona) while knights kinda suck, always have sucked. You get Garen for the noble buff, Darius for the imperial, Poppy for Yordles and Seju for Glacials etc. As for her manaburn chance.....you realize that she has to transform to have a shot at doing anything right? But she is so garbage that she not only takes ages to do it, it doesnt even do that much. As for her end of the turn damage. A tier 1 upgraded to 3 stars will do 4 damage, then 4 more because she summons 4 spiders (bronze units) as a 3 stars or "gold" unit. Then 2 base damage from the winning legend. So she can, with all her spiders alive, do 10 damage.' Which is just short of 30% of the 30% you claim that she does.' https://lolchess.gg/guide/damage Questions?
Trist is easy to deal with though because Gunslingers have several weaknesses: 1. Low late game agency. Slingers have terrible scaling compared to other comps, especially in regards to damage and health. They're strong early but weak late. 2. Focus on one hyper carry unit. Slingers are all about stacking the hell out of Tristana and praying she gets shrinks off, if she doesn't the comp dies, can easily be teched against by dropping a {{champion:53}}. 3. Extremely vulnerable to Ionic spark. Because Tristana and Lucians mana bars build quickly, they get off a lot of abilities, the more abilities they use, the more Ionic spark procs. Gunslingers have low hp and effectively end up killing themselves by constantly triggering Ionic spark. 4. Cannot deal with Yordle comps. Even with RFC on Trist by the time they start shrinking, Trist is alone because Kennen and Poppy have usually wiped the front line. It's why Slingers aren't getting nerfed but Demons are. Demons are much harder to counter than Slingers and are strong all game long.
: > [{quoted}](name=Z3Sleepier,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=0JL7IMEr,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-28T03:57:15.609+0000) > > It's the upside of having an Elise, since there really isn't any other upside other than being a token synergy unit. Her spiderlings do mana burn. Isn't that enough? Like having 1-4 extra units running around burning all of peoples' mana and doing true damage based on the mana burnt is a massive impact alone. "But you need synergy for that!" So? She's a one cost that has a massive impact with the spiderling manaburn alone once she **gets ** the synergy, which is good enough considering she, once again, **IS A ONE COST**. She doesn't need to do 25 damage to players single-handedly on top of that.
Agreed. Even I think her spiderlings having manaburn is a little too much because of how strong Demon synergy is right now, they absolutely should not count toward player damage, nor should Daisy from Elementalist.
Cowseed (NA)
: Don't use aeo champs against krugs. Use high dps single target builds. Or use some defensive units like knights and 2 dps units positioned at the single krug.
Not neccessarily true, some AoE units can kill the Krug group before they can heal. {{champion:28}} is actually really really good at Krugs as her Execute kicks in at 65%, so if you got {{champion:104}} wittling their hp down, Eve will execute and kill them all without the HP reset or need for Red Buff.
: My GPs always fail me so hard. Often his barrels just miss completely and that's when he manages to live long enough to detonate. Aatrox is a way better carry right now.
Aatrox is getting nerfed Wednesday along with Demon synergy to bring him in line
Myrmiron (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kitsune Kawaii,realm=EUNE,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=tLVFLKXa,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-07-28T01:29:05.490+0000) > > Wait is Graves good? > I heard people calling him meme He's really good with red buff, also he doesn't need mana which makes him top priority vs Demons which are the 2nd strongest comp atm.
Blademaster Graves is pretty solid too if you can get a spatula and bow. I like to use him for Pirate Blademasters as it'll still mean I get 2 Gunslinger (GP and Graves with BM) which helps a lot while waiting for Draven and Yasuo to fill out the comp. Pirate Blademasters: {{champion:41}} {{champion:104}} {{champion:555}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:98}} {{champion:119}} {{champion:114}} + unit of choice, typically an Imperial. If you can get Aatrox 2* drop Fiora for him and look for Swain to finish the comp.
Myrmiron (EUW)
: The "Oh gee Riot, thanks for the free win @ wave 1"-starter pack
> [{quoted}](name=Myrmiron,realm=EUW,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=tLVFLKXa,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-07-28T00:29:53.996+0000) > > {{champion:104}} {{champion:18}} {{champion:236}} {{item:1057}} {{item:1043}} I see your free win and raise you End of Creeps: {{champion:555}} 2* {{champion:104}} 2* {{champion:41}} {{champion:114}} {{item:3190}} {{item:3153}} Actually had that happen once. It's disgusting how strong locket is early, then you get the luxury of Pirate gold to boot. Edit: Put blademaster on Graves and watch him go to town. Edit: Doubly, you'd have to get gold off first and second creeps, 3 items on final creeps (it's rare but it can happen), have a spatula and Pyke off Carousel, get an instant 2 Graves, get offered Two Pykes before the end of the creep waves and GP offered at the first head to head wave plus level to 4 with a throwaway Fiora for BM synergy.
: Idk, I feel like that's half the point of Pyke. He's a Pirate/Assassin. What are those two classes good at? Early/mid game. Pyke's early game is insane, but I feel like he falls of later and Pirates/Assassins definitely get outclassed by other synergies later.
Dunno why you got downvoted as you're absolutely right, Pyke is a strong early game unit that loses a lot of power as the game goes on, like Lucian is also a strong unit in the early/mid but drops off later. I dunno why there's also a suggestion of swapping Poppy and Pyke as Poppy is actually sleeper at the moment (hits like a truck, hard to kill, excellent synergy, charges her ability pretty fast, she's held back by the fact that Demon and Aatrox are overtuned to hell and will become one of the next "go tos" when Aatrox inevitably gets nerfed) If anything I'd keep Pyke where he is, he fills a niche which he does eventually get outclassed in, I'd more argue Zed needs to be 3 cost and Rengar 2 cost as Zed is currently the most cost effective assassin whom scales extremely well with stars/items, whereas Rengar....aside from the Synergy, he's a bit pants.
: In my experience, the best thing you can do is while building your team, try like hell to get 4 T2 units. I've never lost to krugs with 4 T2 units, even with zero synergy and no items. I actually saved some units specifically so that I could fight krugs a couple games ago. I used a T2 Garen, Warwick, Trist, Twisted Fate. It was cut close for sure. But with 4 T2s, you will almost always beat them if you position your units to focus the one on the right first.
In the current meta. Level up to 4 after third creep round Level up to 5 round before first Carousel, unless you already have a couple of two star units. Level up to 6 after second Carousel Econ to wolves. If you got what you need, Econ to next Carousel then level to 7, if you don't roll to get what you need and level to 7 at Raptors. The only time you wouldn't do this is when you're high rolling (already have several two star units that you can 3 star) in which case you don't level at all until you have your units. With the meta being as incredibly aggressive as it is, losing at Krugs shouldn't happen as you'll have 5 units, or enough two stars to do it. In case anyone is wondering why leveling is so aggressive at the moment You level for several reasons: 1. Availability of stronger units sooner, with Morgana, Kennen, Volibear and Aatrox being hotly contested, you want to get them coming up as soon as you can. 2. Getting the core of your composition as soon as possible, synergies help a lot, you'll have core units you're wanting and you'll want them as soon as possible. 3. Player damage mitigation, more units on the field means less chance of losing by large margins and less chance of taking a lot of early damage that can be hard to recover from. I'm seeing players even in Plat trying to use the econ strategy only to get eliminated before wolves, right now you shouldn't be trying to econ early unless you're doing high roll and that's entirely dependent on getting several 2 star units before the end of the initial creep waves. Econ only comes in now when you have your composition core and are at a place where you can mitigate/win fights more often than not.
: Are they actually nerfing player damage or are they gonna pull a fast one on us like they did with items?
SEKAI (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Wimbledofy,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=74iMb6Ey,comment-id=00010000000300000000,timestamp=2019-07-26T10:21:08.356+0000) > > chicken dinner was born out of pubg? That's definitely not true. Have you really never heard "Winner winner chicken dinner" before? It's the first instance of being used in a video game in modern era as far as I'm aware.
First instance in a video game would be UMvC3, Hawkeye says it as it's one of his famous comic book quotes.
: *yawn* You sound like one of those guys who starts every game with a two-star on round one...of course you love it. Some of us would like a mode that involves some skill, not just memorizing tables of champs and position charts.
Strategy and knowledge are skills. Sorry that you can't "outskill" with 3 buttons like you can on SR because Meddlers balancing is so bad he actually got everyone asking for Nerfmaster Sucktown to come back. I don't get two stars on round one, I'm usually the guy with the worst drops (3g 1 item) and 4 single stars, but because I ain't lazy and use that grey matter, I win.
: Agreed on every single point. Sure, the mode is still being tested. Sure, it's garbage. Every single point of this mode is RNG besides "match the things that are similar." It's toddler mode for all the little losers who couldn't even make it with the level of RNG in normal League.
> [{quoted}](name=Illegi Bill,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=4yHbsMql,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-28T00:16:56.236+0000) > > Agreed on every single point. Sure, the mode is still being tested. Sure, it's garbage. Every single point of this mode is RNG besides "match the things that are similar." It's toddler mode for all the little losers who couldn't even make it with the level of RNG in normal League. Whatever brings you comfort, guess your TFT promos didn't go well so you switched to a smurf account to blame the mechanics because you got no teammates to blame.
: they really do need to balance it more considering its based off items and economy
They are, they're nerfing player damage so you can econ safer if you have bad luck early, meaning you're in a healthier position when you get to the creep round when your drop protection kicks in.
: I'm a big fan of Blademasters myself. The past few times I played it, though, I had a really good run early/mid and then got screwed late due to never finding a Draven. It is what it is, though!
If you don't get Draven, swerve to making Gangplank your carry and drop a single Gunslinger in for the 2GS bonus, GP is sleeper and can absolutely decimate an enemy team by himself as his barrels do true damage. I recommend Seraphs/RFC/Gunblade or PD for him.
: This ENTIRE MODE needs taking away and reworking.
> [{quoted}](name=Azurereaper,realm=EUW,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=4yHbsMql,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-07-27T19:50:33.564+0000) > > There are too many hard counters implemented in this game. For a game of chance NOTHING should be a HARDCOUNTER for anything. Teams should be soft counters where you have the ability to build to defend against and become strong against that soft counter. > > Right now we have mana burn, this is an outright crippling ability to ability users. > > Glacial, puts an ABSOLUTE stop to most compositions, Yordles if the luck is with them can counter this only. > > Gunslingers, basically just counters ALL units when stacked with items due to hitting 4 units at once. > > Void, just deletes Knights/Nobles/Frontline. > > Dragons, immune to magic damage for the most part. > > Just pick a unit and their design is poorly done. > > Morgana, hard counters assassin teams. Etc > > Items also do this, Cursed Blade the ultimate counter to everything once built, yes its been nerfed, but on gunslingers or with certain item pairings its game over. > > > The game should be built on soft counters not hard counters, for different combinations. Let's see..... Demons are strong, sure, the burn is getting tuned down and in the meantime if they worry you so much, go for a manaless comp which they can't burn. Glacial is countered not just by Yordles, but by positioning. Their damage output is low compared to other comps so spacing out correctly will mean they can only freeze maybe 1/2 units while you deal with them. Gunslingers aren't all that great, they get beaten by many other comps because they are squishy, the trick again is positioning/target priority Void is a bad synergy, so bad that they are reworking it, it's literally worthless because the units it applies to don't do much damage anyway or are too low cost to make a difference when void would be useful. Dragon is getting nerfed to basically a free Dragonclaw for Shyv and Aurelion, they will still be strong against magic, but not immune. Morgana can be countered by positioning. Cursed blade isn't that great, good chance it'll get reworked though as it's either going to be overpowered or underpowered, no inbetween for that item. The game is built on soft counters, just because you don't know them doesn't mean they don't exist.
: So is Mord just a garbage version of AAtrox?
Weaker Aatrox? No Weaker Poppy? Yes They are both knights and have the same type of ability, the difference is the synergy. Poppy is a Yordle so a part of the 6 Yordle comp, Morde is a phantom so part of Ranger knights until you get Karthus.
: Which comp do you force every game, assassins or gunslinger pirates?
Plat here, Yordles or Pirate Blademasters have been my "Go To" comps this is namely down to how they are less contested yet strong in their own right and act as a counter to the meta comps (Yordles counters Demons as their high innate dodge makes it hard to manaburn them, Blademasters attack much faster than Gunslingers and are more durable with some potent AoE abilities, both are strong against Bruisers) Getting 3 Pirates is fairly easy now as well with the introduction of TF and it really helps you keep your economy rolling, especially during crunch moments where you need to look for quick transitions.
: In the last few rounds there are going to be rematches and ghost army shenanigans. It's unavoidable. But they can improve the matching logic to favor the least healthy person not getting slammed by the top guy 3x in a row while the dudes in the middle faff around with ghost armies instead of fighting each other. It's just a little too random right now. It would be helpful if Rito was less protective of their RNG vision for the game and introduced a little more reliability here.
They're already working on a change for this, so you won't face the same opponent twice in a row. This means endgame if you get ghosts, you'll get the real opponent next time.
: i agree it really put you at a disadvantage. i've seen people by round 2 or 3 have like 3 or 2 have items on one assassin pyke and 2 items on another champ like lucien. its like how the hell did you get those items so fast.
Then they get 3 gold off Krugs and 1 item off wolves. The game has drop protection, if they're loaded with items and you got nothing, they'll get nothing later and you'll get the drops.
: Just saying without items after 2 to 3 rounds just leave the game because you're not catching up at all.
Porglit (NA)
: "Oh look, I got 7 gold! That will definitely help me defeat that double rageblade vayne they have....."
Double rageblade Vayne? Rageblade is not very good and I'd be grinning ear to ear if they stacked Rageblades on Vayne. Now double morellos Kennen? That's something terrifying.
: incomparable. Hearthstone doesn't have items which decide the fate of games.
Hearthstone has several games where it's literally decided by top decking the right card or RNGing the right spell/effect. Let me ask you this. If TFT is so bogged down with item RNG, why do disguised toast and scarra regularly finish top 2? If RNG was so heavy, the law of averages would make that next to impossible. Because the game is about effective Economy management and strategy, not blindly rushing straight to the most Meta comp and complaining when you blow all your gold not getting it because everyone else is running it, but rather than accepting maybe you made a poor choice fighting over a limited pool when you could have swerved to a less contested comp and done just as well "I didn't get as many items as that guy" comes up. Sorry man, it's an excuse, there's a reason I'm seeing people run for Meta comps even with Phat items getting eliminated in bottom 5, it's because they refuse to adapt and switch leaving their economy completely in the drain and get outscaled by others that did adapt. There's a Verrrry good reason I typically aim for Demon Blademasters/Assassins/Sorcerers Because it's a strong comp that nobody is bothering to contest, they're too busy blowing all their economy rolling for gunslingers. It has allowed me to finish my placements at the highest possible bracket. Edit: OH and yes, I had 3 of my 5 placements with no item drop in the open rounds, I win by economy and using it to snowball, If I see a stacked up character, I position and build to counter it.
: Quite frankly, the devils' advocacy isn't really worth all that much. I'm pretty sure the vast majority of us are well aware at this point that top 4 is a win. It's just not fun to struggle when it feels like everything is rolling against you. The mode itself is not that fun. Quite frankly, it shouldn't have a ranked mode with how it is right now.
Fun is subjective. There appears to be a lot of people having fun, the boards are an echo chamber of discontent these days, so "Vast Majority" is a selective statement too. Given that its the number one streamed game for the 2nd straight week, has a particularly active Reddit and a busy Social media hashtag. I'd say evidence points to the contrary. Not to mention, if the discontent was that heavy, wouldn't we be seeing hundreds of upvotes on this thread by now? Now, I'm not saying the mode is perfect, not by a longshot, there's still major issues with balancing (Cursed Blade Gunslingers and Volibear comps come to mind) there's bugs that need rectifying (Raptors giving nothing, not even gold sometimes) and the Gold amount compensation for no item could do with tweaking upwards to better emphasize the economy advantage you're granted, but this attitude of "It's a failure because I don't like it" is completely and utterly wrong, there's plenty of evidence that it's wrong and it needs to stop.
: You're assuming that people will continue to play TFT when riot continues to refuse to listen to the community. There are other autochess style games out there. what's saying that they won't just, leave? Going from autochess to autochess is a lot less difficult than from moba to moba. IDC how many excuses you raise, "people said that about ____" "dominion didn't have a pro-scene" "it attracts a different market". People will not play a game if it's shit. People won't play a game if riot goes "we heard what you wanted, but we don't like it and we're going to change it." A game that is this heavily based on RNG will not be able to be competitive long-term. People will get fed up. DOTA Underlords doesn't have as much RNG as TFT does. I'm thinking about switching already.
hoganftw (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=gowwUb5m,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-17T19:23:59.516+0000) > > There is zero problem, because over many games the variance evens out and proper strat can get you into the top 3 over 50% of the time. And the key difference in 1st and 2nd and 3rd is usually item difference. Nobody plays this game just to reach top 4. I'd rather have the same chances as everybody else to get good items than be lucky in a few games and be extremely unlucky in others.
> [{quoted}](name=hoganftw,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=gowwUb5m,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-17T20:54:14.809+0000) > > And the key difference in 1st and 2nd and 3rd is usually item difference. _**Nobody plays this game just to reach top 4.**_ I'd rather have the same chances as everybody else to get good items than be lucky in a few games and be extremely unlucky in others. False statement considering top 4 is considered winning. Some of the most popular TFT streamers regularly emphasize how top 4 finishes are wins and should be treated as such. Also item count balances out over the duration of the match, if someone got 4 items early, later on they will come to a round where they get little to nothing. Not to mention, not every drop is useful to every comp, nor does everyone know what to do with the drops. I've seen people stacking cursed blades thinking it's a good idea....it isn't. because all the enemy team has to do is slip a Blitzcrank in, position to pull that unit and that unit gets dogpiled. I've seen people stack Shivs, also countered by ionic spark I've seen people try have several redemptions, countered by Morellos and Red buff. Everything and I do mean everything is counter-able. Fact of the matter is this, Items are great, economy is greater, if that 1g gives me early pirates and/or early interest, I'm in with a good chance of winning by using my economy to outscale them. Never underestimate what that single lowly gold early in the game can snowball into.
: I think TFT will end up more like NB than like dominion. Riot tries to keep the "quick, RNG based games" crowd's attention, fails, and then eventually retires the mode because no one plays it anymore. Instead they should focus on building and maintaining a consistent playerbase. You know, like a good developer would do.
TFT is probably going to be around for a while, it's attracted a lot of players that didn't care for SR, a fair few card game players moved over. It might not retain some SR players, but it already has a pro scene building, regular tournaments on Twitch between popular streamers, pros and retired former pros So yeah it's already 100% in a better place than Dominion, Dominion had a very small Tourney scene and failed to hook any professional interest. Edit: In fact, I'm pretty sure I remember "This will not last" posts about Dota2s Autochess when it first came out....guess that doom panned out well eh? Edit2: I'd also add that one of the big attractions of TFT is it attracts the 24yo+ player market, of which there is a lot of, players that don't have the twitch reflexes anymore for SR but still want to engage with the game in some capacity.
: So riot is already fucking up this gamemode
Okay, gonna play devils' advocate here as someone that regularly top 4's even with the "here have 1 gold and nothing else" drops Gold is by far the most important commodity in the mode. No Gold = No Exp push = No Units = No Rerolls = No growth. The first thing you need to note and make sure to repeat it to yourself "placing top 4 means winning", you are awarded LP for top 4, you lose it for bottom 4. So one player is on a roll, good items, good win streak, etc. No Biggie, just accept you aren't getting first place and play for second, if you get frustrated/angry every time you don't place first, then this mode isn't for you. Heck my last game I got dumpstered by someone running the recently uncovered Volibear cheese, he had tons of items, I didn't. Did I complain? No because as far as I was concerned, I had a rough early game, built carefully, invested carefully and finished second, because that's what I was playing for. I built to beat everyone else, I knew there was no way to beat him, only minimize loss damage against him. It's called Team Fight **_Tactics_** I understand the frustration with the 1g drop, I really do, but that 1g can be the difference between a very early interest bonus, or early pirates that can snowball your economy or just getting beat into a heartbreaking 5th place finish because you had no way to recover.
: Glacial is pretty mediocre. It's frustrating but not op by any means. If we nerf glacial but buff the champions this just buffs comps like nobles who run sej/ashe, buffs sej as a 1of unit which she does not need, etc
One of the highest success rate builds right and a direct counter to Wild Shapeshifters, simply because a glacial comp has everything. CC in bucketloads, sustain through Kindred and Kayle (nobody goes full glacial, it's 2 or 4 + 4 rangers) a beefy frontline in the likes of Sej, Braum and Leona (or Cho if you're going full CC) and plentiful damage without tons of items thanks to the 4 ranger passive. Glacials power is it turns what would be balanced comps into absolutely broken ones with only the requirement of any glacial + Sej Heck I tried a Morgana centric comp with a couple of glacials + Gnar, basically Sej would Freeze a group, Gnar would knock them back straight to Morg and Morg would ult killing them all. They definitely need to do work on glacial as it's too everyman.
: https://i.gyazo.com/864e9b3871b95b0ce7a517fe4426a730.png another example (I am the guy in first) The dude in 3rd was able to do well throughout most of the game by beating people up with 4 three-stars, but his comp was shit and he got clapped once people started finalizing their comps.
Wow, he really did break his economy badly, couldn't even afford a 7th unit.
: the one in 7th place had a gunslinger comp, 3rd place had an imperial comp. You just went wild shapeshifter which is absurdly more broken.
done the same thing with Pirate Gunslingers transitioned into Imperial Pirate Blademasters (using Tankplank as my frontline), Glacial Ranger Knights, Sorcerer knights, Imperial Guardians It's all about making the comp, based on what you get and what you see. The guy in 7th had a stacked up Tristana with RFC, BT & PD (they had RFC and BT from early game and had rolled relentlessly for 3 star leaving them with no economy), all I had at that point was a 2 Star WW with FH, a 2 Star Nid and a buncha random stuff, I checked what the other teams were using, what I had, what was being offered so econned and transitioned into wild shapeshifter. For the Record I didn't stack Spears on ASOL either, I hate spear stacking. Instead I built a frontline with Frozen hearts and gave Swain Redbuff and Ruunans, 3rd place panic swapped to Imperials after their full assassin comp got crushed by the guy in 2nd, they wouldn't have had a transition issue if they hadn't broke their economy fishing for a 3 star Kat and Trist. Economy management is super important throughout the early and mid game, if you break it, soon as someone counters you, you can't transition. Edit: Here's the result of Imperial Pirate Blademasters using Zed who is widely regarded as one of the weakest assassins. [Pirates](https://i.imgur.com/v4N1UhL.jpg)
Rioter Comments
: Big Brain idea that would make TFT more enjoyable and less cheesy
I'd just prefer them to remove the RNG stun from glacial and make it a slow % makes it a good counter to wild that way without the cheese of "LUL you got stunlocked to death"
: What was the comp they were fighting? Also full glacial isn't as good as glacial ranger knight phantom and it's harder to get imo.
Not to mention Voli and Braum are both pretty bad units in general.
: Glacial needs significant changes. Their teamcomp is too well rounded with having tanks and carries in their trait line, having reliable stun ultimates from Ashe and Sej and then a good chance to proc stun on autos, starting from just 2 Glacial units? A bit ridiculous. I’m also pretty sure the Glacial procs apply to all units on your team, even more dumb. Yordles bonuses at least only affect Yordles, spells don’t miss, and there’s an item for right clicks that makes their attacks not miss.
It does, a lot of folk will deny it though as they don't want it fixing. I've seen and had Draven proc glacial without a mallet simply because Sej and Ashe were on the field, it also has a busted interaction with {{item:3085}} and {{item:3748}} the spread attacks actually increases the chance to apply the glacial stun (again people are trying to deny this because they don't want the interaction removing) Currently it's core to a LOT of comps to run 2 glacial late just because of how easy it is to get stun procs off, not to mention, one ult from Sej or Liss/Ashe can outright win the game.
Orodruin (NA)
: That was extremely helpful, thank you. :)
You're welcome, I think a lot of folks underestimate how strong Morg is as a counter to Assassins as streamers tend to overlook her in favor of FOTM 4 wild + x The problem with 4 wild is while it's strong it is absolutely open to being countered by Assassins with a couple of strong glacials for AoE stun (typically Liss and Sej) the relative popularity of it also makes it difficult to full build into as everyone will be snagging the decent wilds (Gnar/Nid/Rengar/Ahri) It's why I honestly recommend Lulu over Ahri for Sorc comps, as she can really bring a lot of needed survivabilty to a sorc comp
: I've been crushing with Wild Sorcerer though. Throw a Karthus in there with good enough RNG to get 4 wild 6 sorcerer, and you win. It's not even a contest.
I have a comp in mind that beast wild sorcerers XD Pirate Blademasters (2 Gunslinger) with a stacked for tanking {{champion:41}} Build Dragons tooth + {{item:3083}} + {{item:3046}} Plank literally never dies and will get his barrel explosions off quickly. Try to get a {{item:3161}} on {{champion:555}} as he's there to stun the enemy comp up to hold them in place for the barrels Swap {{champion:104}} for {{champion:21}} when the opportunity presents itself Of course you also want {{champion:119}} and either {{champion:55}} + {{champion:238}} or {{champion:157}} + {{champion:122}} depending on the Imperial bonus flavor you want (Imperial is straight up broken let's be honest) The main bulk of the comp is to let GP soak the aggro while taking next to no magic damage from spells while Pyke stuns them up allowing GP to get his barrel explosions off.
Orodruin (NA)
: TFT Assasins ignore tanks in the back and go for carries.
Know who destroys Assassin Comps? {{champion:25}} Give her {{item:3285}} and make sure to have at least 2 other sorcerers, good cheap choices in {{champion:38}} {{champion:103}} and {{champion:117}} set her close by your rangers (just behind your tanks) and laugh out loud as the Assassins get one shot by her Ult. Lulus a great take as her Ult will keep your Rangers alive I'd honestly say Guardians are actually weaker than they should be right now, Knights do their job better, especially {{champion:113}} and a leveled up {{champion:122}} I wouldn't recommend going full on sorcerer into late game however, they're usually killed easily by Rangers, especially if the enemy have {{champion:203}} and {{champion:82}}
Anabiel (NA)
: A lot of suggestions I have from ~50 games of TFT. (warning, very long)
honestly, if they fix the feast or famine situation with item drops and perhaps look at glacial stunlocking (it's not fun to watch your comp get wiped because they can't do anything) the game would be a lot better to look into balancing (glacial skews a lot right now as it's currently the current "Go to" comp with most teams always taking at least Sejuani and either Ashe or Liss) As for the Aatrox thing, as a base unit he's weak....Give him a Titanic Hydra + Either spear or Rageblade and he goes insane. He's carried my team quite a lot because if he can ult quickly, he's absolutely capable of wiping an enemy team. Another unit that seems weaker than they really are is Morgana. Some units are more item reliant than others which is why the item issue is such a pain. Edit: Honestly, thinking about it, I'd just change glacials thing from stun to something else, RNG stunlock is in itself a broken concept. Perhaps slowing attack speed would be something better suited here?
: Ive been playing for 5 seasons and trust me conq and ER arent the only things making Riven broken. And I gotta say it really makes me angry when someone's argument "BUT THIS BEATS Riven so she cant be op", makes no sense , and I rly prefer laning against panth will will just spam some spears until he is oom rather than endless dashes and shiels and infinite damage
Asking for a champ to be straight up dumpstered makes me angry. The ER change will affect her, any planned Conq nerf will affect her, the Ignite nerf will affect her, the toning down of all damage across the board will affect her. See how it pans out first is what I'm saying, like we're doing with the MPen nerfs, Duskblade and Smite/Jungle Exp changes for Mages, Assassins and Junglers. There's a lot of changes coming, some of them will indirectly affect Conq fighters, others directly, Riven being one of them.
: Because a good Riven can 100-0 people during her CC duration. At least when she builds full lethality you could be like “yeah she’s glass cannon”. But usually she builds off-tank and still has absurd levels of damage and CC. Not to mention her shield scales with AD. She is probably the most unfun champ to play against outside of lane. Very few people can play her to her maximum potential so that’s why no one talks about her.
> [{quoted}](name=charge attack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=y8ktKBsw,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-01-16T23:05:20.527+0000) > > Because a good Riven can 100-0 people during her CC duration. At least when she builds full lethality you could be like “yeah she’s glass cannon”. But usually she builds off-tank and still has absurd levels of damage and CC. Not to mention her shield scales with AD. > > She is probably the most unfun champ to play against outside of lane. Very few people can play her to her maximum potential so that’s why no one talks about her. {{champion:80}} Riven is unfun to lane against you say? Hard to deal with? not if my click nuke spears free auto block, click stun and ludicrous lane bully status have anything to say about it! .... Pantheon wrecking her aside, Riven is mainly busted because of {{item:3508}} and Conqueror, she isn't {{champion:6}} levels of obnoxiously difficult to lane against with clear windows early on you can abuse. {{champion:58}} and {{champion:78}} also do a very good job of making her life hell too, even {{champion:75}} outduels her at 6 onwards namely because she can't deal with his Q spam and wither. I'd honestly hold off on wanting her directly nerfed and wait to see what happens with the spear rework (less stated version of current ER) and what Riot plans to do with Conquerer, especially with the rumors Conquerer will be entirely reworked losing the overbearing true damage portion. For now just use her counters whenever you see her and remember, if you're good with {{champion:114}} its a skill match up in which if you win, Riven falls away for the rest of the game.
: Nasus jungle is absolute garbage. Stop overreacting.
> [{quoted}](name=Blåbæret,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1i83Ubbq,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2019-01-12T19:09:13.188+0000) > > Nasus jungle is absolute garbage. Stop overreacting. If he's got laners that aren't stupid, he's going to farm in that jungle because invades will get collapsed on. If he's not stupid he'll ward carefully to keep eyes on the enemy jungle at all times allowing him to purposely play to avoid them If he's not stupid he won't inefficently wait for his Q on small monsters and use it on the big ones. 9.2 will take away a lot of invaders power, he's strong now but yes he can be managed by strong early invaders, those invaders are on the cards for a hefty nerf that will allow farm junglers like Nasus to rocket up the meta standings. But going "He's garbage" when he's very much able to play around it even pre-nerf when he can go Righteous Glory/Predator/Ghost/Chilling Smite/IBG to stick to targets and smack people around like nobodies business shows a very "I refuse to admit the meta is starting to turn" mentality. Look at OP.GG and note the current top 5 bot laners with the exception of Lucian are a very different top 5 to what we've had preseason, heck MF has fell to number 9 and Jihn out of the top 10. There's change coming, the sleepers are ready to take over, once the smite nerfs and jungle exp changes go through, farm junglers like Udyr/Shyv/Nasus will be very much back on the cards.
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Janna Me Fiddle

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