Infernape (EUW)
: SoonTM Riot's working on it. When is anyone's guess.
> [{quoted}](name=Infernape,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=u9TXP3Kd,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-30T03:49:26.568+0000) > > SoonTM > > Riot's working on it. When is anyone's guess. Well, they promised it like 2 years ago. But then it's been radio silence since.. until they said they were bringing it out to coincide with Clash. But then Clash crashed and burned so.. but I mean.. ugh.
: Best support to one trick poll.
There must be a mistake. I don't see Zyra anywhere.
Rioter Comments
ßlameMyADC (EUNE)
: How often do you guys encounter toxicity in your games?
I make a point of normally playing early in the morning or late at night. You're much less likely to run into school-children. Which is what I think a lot of people forget, it's a game aimed at children, who can be very toxic. The worst people you can encounter on the rift at 1am are drunk or high people, who aren't really interested in having an argument. Hell, most of the time people play in silence, which I find quite refreshing.
: There's no point fighting it. Riot is FIRMLY in the SJW "Any speech is hate speech and you're scum for using words" camp. Innocent until proven guilty does not apply here. Context does not apply here. To Riot, you're guilty until proven innocent. They don't care about who started what, all they see is number of reports. People will say thats not true, but its obvious thats the way it is. Best thing you can do is mute all at the beginning of the match, don't even get involved. Riot is not on your side. They side with the trolls EVERY TIME.
I find "SJW" to be a very loaded and uncomfortable turn of phrase, but I really have to wonder what the hell is going on here. It's insane.
Ulanopo (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kumungu Queen,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=54T4EZ9n,comment-id=000400000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-07T00:09:28.002+0000) > > But at the end of the day, *both* are just racist. You can't quantify the amounts of racism in either sentence. Neither are acceptable. If by "quantify" you mean an objective measurement, no. People are capable of understanding relative harm, though, and it should be a consideration in how we treat people. > However, walking up to an African-American and saying "You are an African-American", which is sure, a little odd... It's still just a *statement of fact of origin*. There is nothing Racist about it. I wouldn't say it's a "little odd". I'd say it's **very** odd when someone injects race into a conversation for no particular reason, especially when it's between strangers and completely lacks context. Your use of "Spaniard" may have been benign from your perspective, but the use was unusual enough to merit a second look and the reviewer decided it probably wasn't good for the community. People keep pointing out that your chat restriction is out of the ordinary in that the normal response is a 14-day ban. I think you should focus more on that. It seems very likely the IFS flagged your chat for manual review and the Player Support Specialist decided to give you a lesser punishment intended to give you a firm warning that you shouldn't do that.
That seems unlikely to me. I think the conduct displayed on these boards. Is unacceptable. There is no way the system would flag me for a 14 day ban. It's impossible. It's not possible. It's absurd. I have not been racist. I have been verbally abused, taken the fall for it and now I have you guys trying to convince me against all rhyme or reason or sense at all that I am so secretly a racist I don't even know it. I will not have it.
rujitra (NA)
: Using the phrase “Spaniard” in conjunction with **multiple** insults, while not using it at all in other manners, makes it seem like you were using it as an “add on” to the insults you were using. You were told in the prior thread why you got the chat restriction. The support agent focused on something that wasn’t the primary reason, yes. **Nobody here can fix that**. It doesn’t change the fact that you still deserved the chat restriction based on other things.
What multiple insults??????????? They were toxic. They were Spanish. It is neither unreasonable, nor is it racist to call them a Toxic Spaniard. Which is the *one* and *only* time I added a negative word to the front of the national descriptor that is "Spaniard". There is obviously no correlation in anyone's mind between "Being Spanish" and "Toxicity". That's a really really big reach. Like what? Is it the second option then? That "someone is going to tell me that I lost my honour level, was chat restricted, was dragged through the dirt, and was treated like I'm some toxic subhuman scumbag without thoughts, opinions or emotions because I made a general expression about "any idiot" and called for a report one singular time at the start of the game." Is that the **final** conclusion that we're coming to here?
Ulanopo (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kumungu Queen,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=54T4EZ9n,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-07T00:00:41.316+0000) > > *How* can I have been **very close** to being racist?! Surely I am either a racist or I am not? There *are* shades here. Asking a person of color if they have any fried chicken recipes is a little bit racist. Saying all [N-word] should go back to the jungle they came from is a lot racist.
But at the end of the day, *both* are just racist. You can't quantify the amounts of racism in either sentence. Neither are acceptable. However, walking up to an African-American and saying "You are an African-American", which is sure, a little odd... It's still just a *statement of fact of origin*. There is nothing Racist about it. Please, please, please, please, please please please tell me you understand that...
rujitra (NA)
: If it was “zero tolerance” the Support person would’ve given you a 14 day ban. Zero tolerance things are given 14 day bans off the bat. What *I* think happened is that they were saying it was **close** to zero tolerance - you were **very close to** being racist with it, but it didn’t rise to that level. It was intended as a warning to you to not bring language/race into your insults in the future. That being said, that was not the primary reason you were punished, thus I feel they should not have mentioned it.
But I wasn't. *How* can I have been **very close** to being racist?! Surely I am either a racist or I am not?! One cannot be racist by degrees! I was calling a Spanish person a Spaniard! It's not racist...……………….. It's just what they are! There is no discussion to be had. There should *be* no discussion. I feel like I'm losing my mind that what is obvious to anyone *outside* these boards, is some complex forgone conclusion to everyone within these boards. Spaniard isn't a slur. It's just *the word* that a Spanish person is called! I didn't *bring* language/race into an insult because there was no insult!!! This is insanity. Sheer, utter, unadulterated insanity. And people keep saying that it isn't the primary reason as if everyone is "in the know" except me. But when I ask for them to please show me what I said that warrants a chat restriction?? Silence. Just go back to the Spaniard thing and how I'm allegedly a racist.
Ulanopo (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kumungu Queen,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=54T4EZ9n,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-05-06T17:45:13.028+0000) > > So here's an update on my support ticket. > > The thing that triggered the IFS was that I said a Zero Tolerance Word. Apparently I exhibited racist behaviour. Which slur did I use? > > Spaniard... I think the Player Support Specialist was pretty clear that it wasn't just the use of the term "Spaniard" that caused a problem. It was the context and tone that got you in trouble. Okay: All the Spaniards I met on my trip were super cool people. Not Okay: Ah, yes. The dirty Spaniards are ruining my games again. _(Keep in mind, I'm not saying you **said** that, just giving an example of how the word can be used inappropriately)_ I'm noticing the debate in this thread getting a little heated, but I'm going to leave it up because I understand and appreciate the OP's feelings. It would be helpful if everyone took it down a notch. Thanks.
The player support specialist was pretty clear that racism is zero tolerance and that my behaviour was racist and thus falls under the zero tolerance policy... It's insulting to everyone's intelligence if I keep copying and pasting that quote, so I won't again.. There isn't really any ambiguity here, it's simply what he/she said. The player support specialist didn't say anything about context and tone. In fact, I wish there *was* some discussion about context, because a very basic and cursory look at the context would make it obvious that I was replying to people who were speaking *in Spanish*. A little bit of respect towards the context, in my opinion, would go an absolute mile here. So there are really two scenarios here (3 if you can concede that perhaps the player support rep has made a mistake). Either I'm *actually* legitimately a racist and my account *should* be banned for two weeks because there is zero tolerance for describing the country from which someone hails (in which case, can I get sent on a Mars mission or something because the human race as a whole has collectively lost its minds), or I'm not a racist, and someone is going to tell me that I lost my honour level, was chat restricted, was dragged through the dirt, and was treated like I'm some toxic subhuman scumbag without thoughts, opinions or emotions because I made a general expression about "any idiot" and called for a report one singular time at the start of the game.
: He didn't listen in the first thread when people (including me) said a little more than that. What "help" do you think is warranted? He broke the rules, and the punishment was deserved. As others who have more patience than me have pointed out, he's probably deserving of a 14-day suspension for ZT. The whole thread is this - "Why did I get punished?" "Because you broke the rules." "But why?" "Because you were a jerk in game." "But why?" "Because you were flaming your team." "But why?" "Because you used Spaniards in a derogatory manner." "But why?" He's not willing to accept any help or understand that he was at fault.
I don't need to accept something because you say it, O' Great and Mighty Gatekeeper. The only thing I need to accept is the final decision made by Riot. Get rid of this over-inflated sense of ego you have. Hotaru changed his opinion later down that thread, but again, for a second time, you've conveniently passed over that. Rujitra I'm still discussing with.
rujitra (NA)
: I see how it could be a stretch, but I also see why they called it a racist behavior. They could’ve explained themselves better certainly, but the end result is the same - your behavior as a whole (even if we ignore the “Spaniard” comments) merited a chat restriction and that’s what you got. Unfortunately there’s nothing I or anyone here can do to make the support agent better at explaining it.
I respectfully disagree. I don't think it's close to reasonable to call it racist behaviour. I simply stated their nationality. That isn't racist. Calling someone a Spaniard, or an American or an Englishman, or a Scot, or a Frenchman, or Chinese, or Korean, or whatever is not racist. It is a simple statement of the country from which they hail. If we ignore the Spaniard stuff then the absolute only thing at fault here is "any idiot can see", which is a general statement not even directed at anyone. I respect your opinion, but I don't think it's correct. I'm starting to think that making a thread on the NA board to get the traffic that comes with that was a mistake, because there are obviously some cultural disconnects here regarding nationalities vs racism.
: He didn't listen in the first thread when people (including me) said a little more than that. What "help" do you think is warranted? He broke the rules, and the punishment was deserved. As others who have more patience than me have pointed out, he's probably deserving of a 14-day suspension for ZT. The whole thread is this - "Why did I get punished?" "Because you broke the rules." "But why?" "Because you were a jerk in game." "But why?" "Because you were flaming your team." "But why?" "Because you used Spaniards in a derogatory manner." "But why?" He's not willing to accept any help or understand that he was at fault.
"You need to accept that". No, I do not. Just as you do not accept when I told you I didn't want to discuss this with you and yet you continued anyway, I do not have to accept anything you say, especially when you continue to do so in such a disrespectful and dismissive manner. Hotaru also later says that the support agent has probably made a mistake, and Umbral Regent says that he's inclined to agree. But you conveniently have skipped over that. Again, if you look around, I've accepted a lot of point other people have made. Same in the first thread. I don't care if you have nothing against me. I don't know you. All that I know is that you are rude, and hostile. Ok, we'll see. I didn't realise I *could* report you, but thank you for the heads-up.
rujitra (NA)
: Could you screenshot the response from the Player Support and post it here? Right now, we are taking your word for what they said.
: He didn't listen in the first thread when people (including me) said a little more than that. What "help" do you think is warranted? He broke the rules, and the punishment was deserved. As others who have more patience than me have pointed out, he's probably deserving of a 14-day suspension for ZT. The whole thread is this - "Why did I get punished?" "Because you broke the rules." "But why?" "Because you were a jerk in game." "But why?" "Because you were flaming your team." "But why?" "Because you used Spaniards in a derogatory manner." "But why?" He's not willing to accept any help or understand that he was at fault.
It's taking a lot out of me remaining civil with you. Why you are continually allowed to do this on every single thread on this board by the moderators is a complete mystery to me. I'm not refusing to listen to anything. Maybe you ought to read before you start to speak. I am starting to wonder if your comprehension of the English language is lacking. Idk if you're trying to bait me into losing my temper with this utter idiocy or something to prove the point that "I really am toxic" or something, but honestly mate, just go to hell. This is pathetic. Go and read some of the other bloody replies. These boards need a block function so people can choose whether or not they want to deal with miserable people like you trying to spread their misery elsewhere. You know, and I know you know that my ticket with Riot is still open. Stop playing agent provocateur. It's fucking annoying, and as Silly Neeko has told you, is in fact against the rules on these boards.
rujitra (NA)
: Could you screenshot the response from the Player Support and post it here? Right now, we are taking your word for what they said.
: He didn't listen in the first thread when people (including me) said a little more than that. What "help" do you think is warranted? He broke the rules, and the punishment was deserved. As others who have more patience than me have pointed out, he's probably deserving of a 14-day suspension for ZT. The whole thread is this - "Why did I get punished?" "Because you broke the rules." "But why?" "Because you were a jerk in game." "But why?" "Because you were flaming your team." "But why?" "Because you used Spaniards in a derogatory manner." "But why?" He's not willing to accept any help or understand that he was at fault.
Are you ok? You never *tried* to help. You're acting like a jerk. You're now spreading false truths. It transpires your breaking the rules of the boards. **No-one** has said I deserve a 14-day suspension for ZT... Literally **no-one** I didn't break the rules. I wasn't a jerk in game. I wasn't flaming my team. I never used Spaniards in a derogatory manner. Even the Specialists have seen that. If you look through this thread, and the previous, you'll see plenty of examples where I have taken help and advice on board. The issue I have taken with you specifically is your condescension, dismissiveness, and the fact that you appear to take a little bit too much pleasure in others' misfortune.
mack9112 (NA)
: It has been said a million times here but you constinued to escalate the situation and became just as rude and toxic as the very people you feel attacked you. You want to argue the punishment is not directed against the correct toxic thing you said but in reality you where toxic stop point. You creatIng this post and arguing your punishment is you still deflecting that you are not to blame. Simply put you are exhibiting consistent toxicity game over game and this punishment is supposed to be a wake up call to change so do !
Except I never became rude, nor did I become toxic... Can you please show me the lines from my log where I was toxic and/or rude? "Simply put you are exhibiting consistent toxicity game over game" You don't know this, and I'm not.
: I believe what they are suggesting is that you make a support ticket and talk objectively about the word itself. Such as making a ticket for general inquiry asking "are there any circumstances as to which stating someone is a Spaniard be considered racist? If so, may I get an example?" Then if they say no, or if they give an example like "all spaniards must burn!" Type thing, then ask "if someone spoke spanish, and you called them a toxic spaniard, is that also in that catagory? If so, Might i ask why?" And then keep the conversation civil and as void of your own personal feelings as possible. It is much more likely to have a conversation. If they proceed to ask if it is for a ban appeal.... you can state that "it is an appeal of sorts, however that will come later possibly. Currently I am just wanting to know the rough standards on the word Spaniard in order to help me make a better compling arguement for the appeal."
That is a very sound idea Silly Neeko. Thank you very much. I will do that right now!
Hotarµ (NA)
: >or the chat restriction is in error, which is what I am claiming. If the chat restriction was in error, you should be escalated to a 14-day ban. That's how the zero-tolerance policy works. >Either way, the fault lies with the Agent, and/or with the IFS. Not with myself. Your behavior still warranted a punishment, as shown by me (again) referencing Silly Neeko's comment. You are not free of blame here, sorry.
Can you please post to me the exact lines from my log that you think were unacceptable?
: Then, that's a case of poor wording on the Support Agent's part more likely than anything. The potential for your behavior to fall under the zero tolerance policy is there, but the fact of the matter is, as Hotarµ has stated a couple times now, if you _were_ actually punished for zero tolerance behavior, your punishment would've been a 14-day suspension, not a chat restriction. Or, it could've been appropriate wording and they may have simply forgotten that aspect of the ZT policy. Either way, the fact remains, you would have gotten much worse than a chat restriction if you had been punished for a ZT offense. And, I'm gonna have to reiterate Hotarµ's words here, since you said that you want to talk about the word "Spaniard" and its potential as a ZT offense; > Either way, if you want to talk about the word and the context it should be allowed in, make a post without your assumptions of the punishment system and talk **objectively** about the word itself. If you wanna talk about "Spaniard" and the potential it would be deemed a ZT offense, do so, but continually arguing about your punishment and the punishment system is pretty much wholly beside it.
I understand. Partially.. I can agree to cease arguing about the punishment system Regent, but the word "Spaniard" and my own punishment are pretty firmly linked, and I don't see how one can be discussed without the other? The ticket with player support is still open, so surely discussion about my punishment is an ongoing affair so to speak?
mack9112 (NA)
: I remember your chat logs my man take the report and look at it as an opportunity to improve.
I **also** remember my chat logs my man. So please tell me to which part you are referring when you say I'm part of "the problem". I'm a little unclear on that.
Hotarµ (NA)
: That does not address or change what I said. Riot's zero-tolerance policy is that all racist, sexist, and discriminatory remarks result in severe punishment, in 99.9% of cases it is an instant 14-day ban. So logically it doesn't make sense for you to only receive a 10-game chat restriction if that was the case, because they want to treat all racism (and the like) equally. "_**...you would have received an immediate 14-day ban for using it, regardless of context. So either the punishment was an error and you should have received a more severe one, or the support agent worded their message incorrectly.**_"
So then the support agent is at fault somehow, and has either incorrectly worded the message as you have said, or the chat restriction is in error, which is what I am claiming. The punishment being in error and me needing to have received a more severe one is clearly not the case. So, either way, the fault lies with the Agent, and/or with the IFS. Not with myself.
mack9112 (NA)
: This kind of situation you should self reflect and recognize that you are a part of the problem and change your attitude.
Did you read the post? To which problem are you referring?
: _cough cough_
Yup, I'm done, I'm done. Just needed to get that one out of my system. He can continue to rage into the void if he wishes.
Hotarµ (NA)
: If Spaniard was considered a zero-tolerance phrase, you would have received an immediate 14-day ban for using it, regardless of context. So either the punishment was an error and you should have received a more severe one, or the support agent worded their message incorrectly. Either way, if you want to talk about the word and the context it should be allowed in, make a post without your assumptions of the punishment system and talk **objectively** about the word itself.
And I quote, for the second time: "I am afraid that the behavior detected falls under our **0 tolerance policy**. Offending other players through racism is unacceptable under any circumstance. This creates an extremely unpleasant experience to our players, even when not directed at someone personally. **[10:14] Janna: a spaniard…** Due to the negative attitude detected, a chat restriction was placed on your account, which has also caused the Honor level to drop and is currently locked. As a part of the Instant Feedback System, you can view your reform card in the client."
: > [{quoted}](name=Kumungu Queen,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=54T4EZ9n,comment-id=0001000100010000,timestamp=2019-05-06T18:59:39.485+0000) > > The reasons given for the punishment in the other thread are not satisfactory to me, especially given the response from player support. I am here to talk about the word "Spaniard" being a so called Zero Tolerance Phrase. It should not be. It is a mistake. It isnt, or you would have a 14 day ban.
Then player support should elucidate what exactly gave me the 10 game chat restrict, instead of solely drawing attention to my use of the word "Spaniard". This is a fault on their part, not on mine.
: And the overwhelmingly negative attitude of people who don't understand why they were punished is also annoying. Just remember - I don't need your permission to post or reply to threads. You are free to ignore me, but just as your chat log in game showed, you have to have the last word, to your own detriment.
Have you any self awareness? I've asked you to stop twice now, and yet here you are replying still. You keep making assumptions as if you know me personally. What is this "I have to have the last word" nonsense? *Again*, mate, take a note from your own playbook... You went on some long diatribe in my first thread, and here you are doing it again in my second. It only takes a cursory glance at your comment history to see that you spent an inordinate amount of time (multiple hours, every single day, dear god man, have you nothing better to do on a weekday sitting on here clicking refresh so you can argue and add to strangers' misery?) on this board winding people up and picking fights and adding literally no value to any discussion. I shall not be responding to you any further.
: > [{quoted}](name=Kumungu Queen,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=54T4EZ9n,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-05-06T18:55:37.671+0000) > > I'm going to keep pushing the issue. There is absolutely no way in hell I get a 14 day ban for using the word Spaniard. Do as you wish, just offering up advice, which is why I assumed you made the thread. Carry on.
I appreciate the advice. I didn't mean to be dismissive, I hope that translated across.
: Then simply state that they have made their opinion and it has been noted. Or just ignore comments that state "because its not my opinion that matters" because obviously they know their message holds no merit, so dont put any for them
Sorry. You're right. The overwhelmingly negative attitude of some of the users here is getting to me.. I apologise.
Hotarµ (NA)
: >It doesn't take a genius to compare my logs to the logs of anyone else on this board contesting a 10-game chat restrict to see that I'm not really comparable in any way, shape or form. I called for reports in the game once. Not continuously. There was no namecalling. I'm going to just redirect you to Silly Neeko's comment and your original thread as a whole, as the commenters there have already addressed your claims and explained why you were punished. I also shared my opinion in my original comment on this thread. >I can understand they are not on trial. But they should be. And they would be had you reported them. If you did, that's great, the system will review the game and see if anything was punishable. If you didn't, that's your responsibility as you didn't use the tools that were given to you. >If we're going to fall back on legalspeak here, this is a great miscarriage of justice. I can easily check their op.ggs and see that none of them have been banned for their behaviour. First off, no, you can't check who was or wasn't punished for a multitude of reasons. If someone is reported for toxicity, you have no way of knowing what punishment tier they're on. Hypothetically speaking, let's say you reported 4 players and every single one of them was punished. **However**, Player A never received a punishment before, so they just got a 10-game chat restriction _(or maybe they didn't even get punished at all.)_ Player B has had a 10-game chat restriction before, so they're escalated to a 25-game chat restriction. They can still play. Player C and D got a 14-day ban and permanent ban respectively, so they shouldn't be allowed to play anymore. Again, **however**, errors can occur and punishments can be doled out at later dates. Some scenarios require 1-4 games worth of chat logs to warrant a punishment upgrade, so instead of being given a 14-day ban, Player C remained at a 25-game chat restriction. So regardless of what someone else did or when they did it, **you have absolutely no way to verify if they've been punished at all.** >So 4 reports from premades clearly don't outweigh my 1 report, whatever the rhetoric repeated ad nauseam on these boards is. I am not a fool, nor do I suffer fools gladly. I would prefer not to be treated as a fool. Please forget the rhetoric and actually look at the case at hand. Right off the bat, [here's a quote from Riot Tantram](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/9VrUtrJo-being-solo-and-having-a-team-report?show=rundown) on the punishment system: >**Multiple reports do NOT increase the likelihood of flagging a game for review. One report is all it takes. There is no benefit to asking for others to report a player.** Let's support that further with [a quote from the Reporting a Player FAQ on the Riot Support website](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752884-Reporting-a-Player). >Do not ask other players in the match to report the offending player. **It only takes one report for our systems to review a game. Additional reports will not do anything for the offending player;** however as mentioned above, it could open yourself up to a report of your own; especially if you are derailing the match by constantly demanding reports of other players. And if for some reason that's not enough for you and because you claim to "not be a fool", why exactly would Riot allow multiple reports to have more weight than one individual's? Where is the logic in allowing groups of players to gang up on individuals and functionally run the game? Moreover, how has Riot gone 12 years in total without a single person acknowledging it or addressing the issue as it's brought up so often? ** Think logically.** It doesn't make sense and it doesn't benefit Riot in any way to allow multiple reports to carry additional weight as it brings up more harm than good.
The reasons given for the punishment in the other thread are not satisfactory to me, especially given the response from player support. I am here to talk about the word "Spaniard" being a so called Zero Tolerance Phrase. It should not be. It is a mistake.
: I'm not sure that the support agent was entirely correct in stating that your punishment was only because of the word spainard, if that is what the said. As mentioned above, a zero tolerance i.e. racism would have resulted in a 14 day ban. I'm not sure I would keep pushing the issue because if Riot deems it a zero tolerance phrase, fyi I don't, then the correct punishment would be an escalation to 14 days.
I'm going to keep pushing the issue. There is absolutely no way in hell I get a 14 day ban for using the word Spaniard.
: Clearly you did, since it's not my opinion that matters here. Riot saw fit to ban you, therefore **you did**. Perhaps it is you that should be quiet in games before you lose your account permanently.
Can you go away? You've said it yourself, ("it's not my opinion that matters here") your input isn't useful. It's bloody plain to see that I did not use it in a perjorative fashion. Maybe you should find something better to do than lurking in *every single player behaviour thread* sowing misery and acting so utterly condescending. I said it in the previous thread too. I'm completely disinterested in having some sort of petty argument with you.
: You used it in a negative context - thereby making it a racist (nationalist?) comment. You should avoid this kind of thing.
Be quiet, I did not, and you know I did not. Racism and Nationalism don't even *slightly* come into this. Don't start stretching and making ridiculous assumptions like that.
SirEnds (NA)
: I dont see anything wrong with Spaniard because its not derogatory in any way unless you were prefacing the word with a derogatory term such as "stupid, worthless, or other insulting adjectives but that doesn't mean I trust that you ONLY said that. (so if you want people to trust you then it would be smart to post your chat logs)
: If it was Blitzcrank Bot that replied it was a bot, if it was anyone else it is a human. I will agree that if the chat restrict was given because of just "spaniard" then they would also need to be chat restricting people for saying "american" "chinese" "korean" etc which I have seen with toxic infront and there be no punishment because it is not really being racist.... well in a way they are in a very loose definition of the word.... but it still seems odd.
It was not Blitzcrank Bot I'm afraid. I don't think I've ever had a ticket replied to by a Blitzcrank Bot. The response *seemed* fairly human, but I'm wondering if it was mostly prewritten.
Hotarµ (NA)
: >So I was reported for hate speech, by these 4 premades who had spent the game harassing me. It only takes one report to trigger a game for automatic review; multiple reports do not increase the likelihood of a punishment being administered. Even if that was the case, I can guarantee you it wouldn't extend to premades because they would single-handedly run the game. >Of course, there's no mention of anything they might have said to me. No mention of that at all. My unpleasant experience is completely irrelevant. Because _their_ behavior isn't on trial here, their wrongdoings don't justify your own. You've already been told in your previous thread why you received a punishment for this game, so I'm going to re-quote Silly Neeko here as they summed it up very nicely. > [{quoted}](name=Silly Neeko,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=lW4GAom3,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-05T01:25:28.951+0000) > > Few things here that all combined do lead to a valid chat restriction. > > 1) You started the game calling for reports. This is not needed and has been so widely stated that continuous calling for reports is punishable as well. Did it make you feel better or play better calling for the report? No. Did it antagonize even more? Yes. Were you meaning it to? Kinda. > > 2) there was quite a bit of name calling. > > 3) the system probably caught the "bitch" part and that is likely another additional part.... although it was not directed towards them. The system does not really distinguish that so much but it is a small additional part. > > 4) You kept talking to them. Mute them. If you mute them you can not see their chat and you can focus on playing the game. You can do this by pressing and holding tab, then at the top right of their little info rectangle there is places for muting pings and chat. Utilize it. Trust me, you feel much better when you simply leave it at "im muting and reporting you. Good bye." Edit: And regardless of my personal feelings on the matter, there was literally 0 reason for you to use the word "Spaniard" in any context. While it may not be as heinous as some other terms, it's just pointless to bring up someone's ethnicity/background while they're being toxic. You might have been _reported_ for hate speech, but if you were actually punished for it you would have received a 14-day gameplay ban, not a chat restriction, which is why I re-quoted Neeko's comment.
I remember what Silly Neeko said, and I took a lot of that good advice on-board. And I'm iterating now what the Player Support Rep said. It doesn't take a genius to compare my logs to the logs of anyone else on this board contesting a 10-game chat restrict to see that I'm not really comparable in any way, shape or form. I called for reports in the game *once*. Not continuously. There was *no namecalling*. I am saying that what player support came back with was an issue over the use of the word Spaniard. I can understand they are not on trial. But they should be. Not to mention that if calling for reports is an issue, I did it once, while they threatened me with it and called for it in all chat over and over and over again. If we're going to fall back on legalspeak here, this is a great miscarriage of justice. I can easily check their op.ggs and see that none of them have been banned for their behaviour. So 4 reports from premades clearly don't outweigh my 1 report, whatever the rhetoric repeated ad nauseam on these boards is. I am not a fool, nor do I suffer fools gladly. I would prefer not to be treated as a fool. Please forget the rhetoric and actually *look* at the case at hand. Edit: it's curious that the prevailing attitude here is almost *wishing*, and *hoping* that everyone gets punished as extremely as possible. Like I said before, the amount of schadenfreude hunting on this section of the boards is problematic. In a live chat with another Player Support rep, Dead Eye Colt or something like that, he said that he understood my frustration and that something obviously wasn't quite right, but was unable to act on it outside of the ticketing system. Or on the board's discord server when I brought it up, one of the moderators reacted with bemusement and confusion. But here? There is too much of this "I don't care about context or circumstances, you're guilty and everyone knows it". Guilty of *what*? Response to your edit: Si me están abusando verbalmente en español, y soy capaz de entenderlos… Entonces hay una razón para señalar que *de hecho* son españoles. No es "heinous" en absoluto. In fact it isn't even close to "heinous". It simply *IS* the word with which you describe someone from Spain. Perhaps you don't understand, as an American (oops I'm sorry if describing your nationality comes off as *racist* to you), but on the EUW server, we have Brits, Germans, French, Spanish, Scandinavians, Poles, Turks and so on and so on. People speak and therefore have to understand more than one language, as the server is not restricted to just one nationality. So actually, as is the point I'm subtly trying to make by switching languages, one's Nationality *is* actually relevant. Te lo preguntaré otra vez. Por favor, deja de tratarme como si fuera un tonto.
SirEnds (NA)
: I dont see anything wrong with Spaniard because its not derogatory in any way unless you were prefacing the word with a derogatory term such as "stupid, worthless, or other insulting adjectives but that doesn't mean I trust that you ONLY said that. (so if you want people to trust you then it would be smart to post your chat logs)
Toxic is the word I prefaced it with. But the response I got from player support indicated that my use of the word "Spaniard" was the issue. "I am afraid that the behavior detected falls under our 0 tolerance policy. Offending other players through racism is unacceptable under any circumstance. This creates an extremely unpleasant experience to our players, even when not directed at someone personally. [10:14] Janna: a spaniard... Due to the negative attitude detected, a chat restriction was placed on your account, which has also caused the Honor level to drop and is currently locked. As a part of the Instant Feedback System, you can view your reform card in the client."
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Kumungu Queen,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=lW4GAom3,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-05-05T02:54:19.735+0000) > > Yes, I've already admitted, in hindsight, I ought to have dodged it. > > "multiple reports don't do anything" - people keep saying this, but all evidence points to the contrary... Regardless, yes, I should not have called for reports. > > I agree with the first half of what you said fine, but I think I was about as positive as the situation allowed. You would have me say "thank you, more please" to incessant endless trolling and flaming? And it was a half hour long game. At 25 messages replying to what was again, I must stress *literally an entire team incessantly flaming me*. > > And actually you'll note there are two messages after I said "just play the game". Just 2, because I gave up on replying and yes, I focussed on the game instead. You ought to have dodged, or you ought to have muted, or you ought to have not kept responding... The punishment system doesn't look at what other people were doing to determine whether to punish your account. It only looks at your behavior. If you have 25 messages in a 30-minute game, then on average barely a minute goes by where you aren't harassing your team. You should've "just played the game" yourself from the beginning (since you didn't dodge).
Semantics I know, but everything I'm saying is a reply to something. I was not the initiator. So I don't think harassing is the the right word to use.. But thank you for the well-meant advice.
: I do understand your calling it a hostage type situation, I am just saying from my experience people in EUW it has been used quite a bit..... overused in my opinion.... but yeah, that was just a side thing there. Yes. You are using it in a form of slandering/degrading. Thus, you are trying to insult them by calling them toxic. Also, there was a few other things like saying "any idiot can say that" then the chat itself was a bit passive aggressive as well after the line i pointed out. It is not the reason itself.... but it was a contributing factor.
Again, is passive aggression punishable? In the face of a metric tonne of abuse and flame, surely "passive aggression" is a much more preferable outlet than simply flaming back, inting and trying to get the other 4 to ff as fast as humanly possible. I would also put forward that what you're interpreting as passive aggression is just simply sarcasm. Which again, is, or at least, should not be punishable.
: Why would you play out a game instead of dodging when you already plan on reporting someone? You then spent the entire time continuing that argument, including calling for reports (harassment, not to mention that multiple reports don't do anything). You literally didn't say a single thing the entire time that was neutral or positive and focused on the game (and no, telling teammates to "just play the game" when you're too busy chatting yourself doesn't count).
Yes, I've already admitted, in hindsight, I ought to have dodged it. "multiple reports don't do anything" - people keep saying this, but all evidence points to the contrary... Regardless, yes, I should not have called for reports. I agree with the first half of what you said fine, but I think I was about as positive as the situation allowed. You would have me say "thank you, more please" to incessant endless trolling and flaming? And it was a half hour long game. At 25 messages replying to what was again, I must stress *literally an entire team incessantly flaming me*. And actually you'll note there are two messages after I said "just play the game". Just 2, because I gave up on replying and yes, I focussed on the game instead.
: Not to say that the person is right about everything... but there is one thing they are right about. You can have honor progress slowed for minor toxicity things that do not actually warrent a punishment, these things do not show up in chat logs. However, they can be contributing factors to when there is a slightly more problematic chat log.
: > It's just counter-productive to go into a scenario assuming you know everything, with a closed mind that you're unwilling to let be changed. This is the smug attitude that got you punished in game. You can be negative without uttering a single swear. People don't want to hear your shit in game. I do not know everything. This isn't my scenario, dude. It's yours. And you're refusing to listen to people telling you that how you're looking at the situation may not exactly be correct. It's hard to admit, "I was the jerk," but again, let me know what Riot support says. I look forward to being proven wrong.
How is that smug? What was smug about what I said in game? Hell, even if it *is* smug, what's punishable about *smugness*. You seem to have a chip on your shoulder that needs seeing to mate. I'm really not all that interested in arguing with you. Again, have a very pleasant night. And while you're talking about smugness and condescension..: "It's hard to admit, "I was the jerk," but again, let me know what Riot support says. I look forward to being proven wrong." "and let them tell you the same thing" "and I assure you, you do" "There there, you didn't do anything wrong." "People don't want to hear your shit" Take some notes from your own playbook. Your manner of speaking is dripping with holier-than-thou "I know I'm better than you, and I want you to know it too".
: You will not always be notified about punishments. Even if the support ticket warrented a punishment, you might not get a feedback report. Trust me, check through player behavior and you will understand quick why the rules are the way they are, and that even for gameplay punishments they work out. The thing is though, you did not need to take the abuse. Muting them would completely remove the abuse apart from the gameplay, which just take the game to learn about your champion and read abilities etc. Lots of things you can do even in a game where there is a troll.
I was on fairly good terms with one of the community support guys. Chatted a lot over several months. Great guy, helped me through a really rough and dark patch in my life, but I suppose that's not relevant. Idk if he's still with Riot or not, but yeah, I'm aware of the various reasons that some information isn't readily available. Yes. I agree, and can take that point. In hindsight, I really ought to have just dodged and never played the game at all. It was obvious in the pregame already that it was going to be a (pardon my French) utter clusterfuck.
: I'm sorry, dude. What I think doesn't matter, what Riot's system has decided is what matters. You can use me as a placeholder and be angry all you want, but at the end of the day, you earned your chat restriction. Fill out a support ticket with them, and I'll gladly eat crow if they tell you that they made a mistake and reverse the decision. Have a good night.
I'm not angry at you. It's just counter-productive to go into a scenario assuming you know everything, with a closed mind that you're unwilling to let be changed. Likewise, have a good night.
: > 4 toxic spaniards, an afk adc, an enabling fizz, and a trolling soraka. Name calling. Also you were calling people toxic etc. Not saying the spaniards part is name calling.... but you were calling people trolls and toxic and etc which is a form of name calling. You CONTINUED talking to them. There is no need to do that. There is nothing constructive being said, there is not banter going back and forth, it is not enjoyable, so why do it? Mute them. Because yes.... CONTINUING for 10+ minutes will get you a chat restriction. Yes i know because that was the main reason I got my last one about a year ago. ____ Also, as someone who presses no on surrender votes nearly absentmindedly over the years.... and while I have played in your server I did not flame or badmouth at all, i just simply said no.... and there was constantly all this "hostage" talk that just makes me cringe. Im not holding anyone hostage, I am just wanting to play the game. If 4 people want to surrender at 15, i will respect that decision, but i will still say no. If they still all want to surrender at 20, then feel free. However my vote will still be no. I dont know what it is with the EUW server always feeling like they are some victims in a hostage situation..... but seriously, it makes me not want to play over there when mutual respect is not given about the surrender votes even. Your game was a bit different yes, but it seems to be way too common over there for my tastes.
I don't mean if the game is being lost I'm being held hostage. Whether we were winning or losing is quite irrelevant to that, and what you've said is absolutely fair enough. I play the game for fun, not to win. I don't even play ranked lol. What I meant was being kept in an unpleasant situation. My apologies if that didn't quite translate. Idk, calling someone who is toxic, is toxic? It's just calling a spade a spade no? I used no bad language, I wasn't aggressive. And it's just *one* line of what, in my opinion, is a bit of a stretch to call an insult..
: I explained why you were punished in the post about the chat logs. It does suck that it happened, but you did not simply keep it at variations of "Ok, report me if you want, I've done nothing wrong, the chat logs are checked and I won't be punished" like you said. There was additional things there. It sucks, but even when I was in a game with some jerks and the worst thing i said to them was "you are just a silly jerk"... possibly calling them a playground bully too? Not sure, but yeah. The problem is that i continued to talk to them instead of just muting the toxic people. No i do not have my chat logs, because I know what I did wrong. Ive also only had 2 chat restrictions over my entire time of playing (Which..... is quite a while). So yeah, it sucks, but its not the end of the world. Yes, I and there is quite a few others that do agree (even some of the Riot Support Team) that there should be less of an honor punishment for chat restrictions which they state is supposed to be more of a "hey, this isnt acceptable chat. Calm it down before worse things start happening" pretty much.... but it will take some time. Until then? Best i can say is chin up, chances are they have a 14 day ban if all that you said was true once someone takes a review of the game (which btw, when sending in a support ticket i recommend attaching a link to the match via the league site's match information to make it easier for them to get to the specific match).
*sigh* I'm not so fussed about the restriction. I don't talk all that much in game, so it's fine. It's just the honour removal.. Not that I even have any use for the rewards, as a one-trick, you know, I already have everything I want.. It's just on principle, it's upsetting to receive a whole bunch of abuse, but you think "I'll be fine - the oft-repeated rhetoric is that 1 report = 9 reports and vice versa". "I've done nothing wrong, so if the 4 premades all report me, it means nothing". But you get hit with a punishment, and you don't get the vindication of seeing an instant feedback report. Just get to feel wronged by some robot word detector. When I submitted the ticket I screenshotted the post-game and attached a rofl file. Is the link also necessary? Keeping in mind that it'd knock my ticket to the back of the queue I mean. And thank you for your kind and considered replies.
: The log is a **sample** of the behavior that led to the punishment. The system punishes based on consistency x severity. You are not **severely** toxic, but you're consistently toxic over multiple games. If you think it was a false positive, open a support ticket and let them tell you the same thing.
I added it to the original ticket. You're clearly one of the guys bluefire mark 2 was warning about. If it's a "sample", it'll show *other* chat logs. Not just one. There are *multitudinous* other threads I can go to here and see people with 2 or 3 or 4 (vastly) worse logs, so Riot clearly provide multiple if it's warranted.
: Few things here that all combined do lead to a valid chat restriction. 1) You started the game calling for reports. This is not needed and has been so widely stated that continuous calling for reports is punishable as well. Did it make you feel better or play better calling for the report? No. Did it antagonize even more? Yes. Were you meaning it to? Kinda. 2) there was quite a bit of name calling. 3) the system probably caught the "bitch" part and that is likely another additional part.... although it was not directed towards them. The system does not really distinguish that so much but it is a small additional part. 4) You kept talking to them. Mute them. If you mute them you can not see their chat and you can focus on playing the game. You can do this by pressing and holding tab, then at the top right of their little info rectangle there is places for muting pings and chat. Utilize it. Trust me, you feel much better when you simply leave it at "im muting and reporting you. Good bye."
1) Fair play. Ok. 2) No there wasn't? I didn't call anyone names? 3) That's what I suspect. Except I was directly quoting the midlaner, who said "Voy a troll a tu puta madre". 4) Is good advice. But not muting them isn't punishable. And under any other circumstances I would have quietly muted them, but they were going out of my way to troll me, and were actively keeping me hostage in the game, and also bad-mouthing me in all chat to the other team. There is a lot of stuff they said (which you *can't* see in the chat log) that I *didn't* reply to. Most of it in fact. Like I previously said, I was just trying to quietly get through the game until it ended and I could be free of the situation.
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Kumungu Queen

Level 106 (EUW)
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