Kürama (NA)
: [Proposal] Twisted Treeline gameplay update, New game mode & More. @Riot, Mort, Meddler
agac4234 (EUW)
: why mute everyone?
Well I don't do it myself because I think communication via chat can actually be quite useful and improve your experience, and I don't get tilted by just a single remark (and in that case I mute the dude). But certain people can be really tilted or offended by even that one remark, that's why they choose to do it. Or sometimes they just want to focus on themselves and ignore the fact that it's a team game. People using "mute all" will not necessarily ignore the rest of your team though, that's a case-by-case thing. For all you know it's possible that the Draven didn't mute anybody but just didn't care.
jınxy (NA)
: This. In the past I’ve found that I can pretty much hit level 30 or close to it with a 40 wins boost and a time-based boosts. As opposed to, I dunno, 150-200 games with no boost.
Oh, yeah, I didn't think of that. I only have one account and I don't feel the need to create a smurf right now since I've only been playing for a month. Thanks for the answers guys !
jınxy (NA)
: WARNING: TFT Annihilates Per-Win XP Boosts
I know it's besides the point, but why would you pay 20$ to get more XP ? Experience is pointless given how terrible the level-up rewards are. If you want more BE, I suggesting investing this money into battle passes and buying champion shards with tokens. That's what I'm doing, and I can tell you if you play regularly it's by far the most efficient way to convert real money into BE.
: I think there's a lot to learn by playing from behind, I often see high elo players that can snowball a game when they have an edge, but seem to totaly go into hard inting mode when they are a bit behind early. As a veigar player i'm used to always play from behind and you have always ways of stalling a game, making picks for nothing exploit the errors of your opponents. Especially in bronze there's often a way to come back, trust me. So you should play every game until the very end because learning how to exploit the ennemies mistakes when you are behind is a nice skill to have.
Yeah I've read people say that it's way easier to salvage a game in low elo than in high elo, and that actually in high elo it's almost impossible because people just do little to no mistakes. And yeah it could probably teach me a bit, but to be honest I don't have too much time to play during the week so I prefer fun games, and I just don't have fun playing from behind. It's just a subjective thing. And if people don't want to surrender I still play these games to the very end anyway, I don't leave or go afk, so it doesn't change much I guess.
: Well, rip my lp too. :p I think I want to play but after two games I just close the client and never open it until the next day because I am starting to feel like two SR games are too much :/
Well to be honest you should have to dodge more than one game a day. I don't get toxicity in champ select that often, and troll picks even less. And if that's the case just don't play ranked. After work it's very rare that I play ranked because I just want to chill out, and I also rarely do more than two SR a day, that's a bit much. If you want to play LoL but don't want to tryhard, you could play ARAM a bit more often, it's much more relaxing. [And if you don't mind excessive RNG there is TFT too; I personally don't like it, but I can see why people think it's chill]
: > [{quoted}](name=Lemexis,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=BgucT2JG,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2019-07-08T21:27:16.794+0000) > > Yeah it happens sometimes, but to be honest even victory does not feel very good because of how tedious it was to achieve it, and because sometimes your teammates are so bad and/or just toxic and so you don't want to go the extra mile to make them win. Actually It feels way better to comeback rather than crushing your opponents from minut 1. And you seem to think you are making extra miles to make you ally win, leave this mindset behind you if you want to climb, the only reason you are doing the extra miles is so YOU can win. Most of the time the idiot with this mentality just want to punish ONE wrongdoer in their team, statting that "I dont want this [INSERT CHAMPION NAME] to win the game". Guess what ? They are 3 more people in your team, and maybe they are not the best players either, but they do not deserve that you remove any chances of winning for them.
Yeah the "I don't want to get that guy to win" is more of a edge-case, most of the time it's just that I feel like victory is so unlikely it's not worth it. In a way I have the mentality of an investor: if an investment (a game) is going badly, I'd rather cut my losses and go for another that might be better, instead of sticking to it to the end knowing it's much more likely going to make me lose money than to make me earn money. And I want to climb but I have a more long-term approach to it. I'm still at a very low elo (Bronze 2 right now), so the priority for me is not actually winning but improving. If a game is somewhat balanced, I feel like I can have more impact, I can attempt actions, see what works, what doesn't, where I fuck up, etc... However, if the game is very one-sided, then almost no matter what I do I just get destroyed, and it's very hard to learn from that because most of the time it's not due to a mistake on your part but just on the fact that the enemy is super fed. Now sure, if you win eventually it'll be interesting to analyze why the enemy team couldn't close the game, and what made this comeback possible. But it doesn't change the fact that a minute spent in a balanced game will teach me more than a minute spent in an unbalanced game (whether it was unbalanced from the start because of the matchmaking, or because it became unbalanced due to a terrible early game). And usually I just initiate the surrender vote, but I'm not the kind of guy who spends the entire game spamming "ff" in chat, and if people don't want to surrender then I keep playing - sure, I'll probably be a little less good because my morale is down, but I still try my best to make my team wins even if I don't believe it's possible. If only because at least I'll be able to learn a few things if I keep attempting plays, as opposed to just wasting everybody's time by afk-ing or inting or whatever.
: > [{quoted}](name=Lemexis,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=4Zjwn0x6,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-08T15:51:10.979+0000) > > Well you can't ban someone just for having a bad game, even if they end up as something like 0/10, same for off-meta build choices. > > However yeah maybe the flash to try and steal is trolling, and the fact that he banned your pick already says that the guy is a terrible teammate (and in that case I would have dodged but that's another story). > > But anyway, it's harder to detect trolls so it might require multiple reports unfortunately. I assume you already send a support ticket to report the guy, along with evidence of what he did ? If you report someone and then send a ticket it just says you already reported in game and that's the end of that
I can get why they put it in place, but it sucks, because it just means you'll have to just go straight to Riot support since the in-game option is so unreliable when it comes to trolling. Anyway, that's good to know, thanks
: I am back bro xD
I knew I was being overly optimistic with "in a week" :P Anyway, I hope you're more chill now. It pisses me off too when I have to dodge in champ select because someone else is toxic or trolling, but that's just how it is. Let's just be glad that at least we're not punished for dodging beyond the little wait time.
: I've won to many games in which 3 of my teammates wanted to surrender to let you ruin my games by surrendering before we can win. https://i.imgur.com/WGnsR18.png
Yeah it happens sometimes, but to be honest even victory does not feel very good because of how tedious it was to achieve it, and because sometimes your teammates are so bad and/or just toxic and so you don't want to go the extra mile to make them win.
: > [{quoted}](name=Lemexis,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=BgucT2JG,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-07-08T11:47:33.514+0000) > > Yeah I never left a game or went AFK but I'm actually contemplating doing it in this type of game. Maybe they should fine tune the system so that's past 20 minutes, only 3 people have to say yes for it to work if a certain number of criterias are met (like difference in kills over a certain threshold, same for difference in objectives, that sort of thing). > > And I also hate people with the "never surrender" mentality. Like, do they actually enjoy getting totally stomped without being able to do anything at all ? Do they enjoy wasting their time ? if someone plays like doodoo and then acts like a real asshole you'll bet your ass i will never surrender(1000% if they also start surrender vote). if you only play like doodoo, it'll depend on my mood and the state of the game. i'm a reasonable person. you make your bed, you lay in it. the enemy team can fight for their win. i'm not gonna give them an even easier time just because we had someone sorry on our team. also i main a late game 1v9* champion. * heavily depends on which champions are in that game, circumstancial thus.
Yeah but what about other teammates ? Why are you okay with punishing them because of that one asshole who spams surrender after running down his lane ? With this attitude, you'll also punish me, an innocent player, by forcing myself to play with this deadweight/annoying kid (because in my experience the people who flame the most are the ones who are 0/7 by 20 minutes). Like I always do my best to carry my team, but some teams are just impossible or super hard to carry, and I don't have the patience to wait until the enemy team makes many mistakes or one super costly mistake to try to salvage a win. It's just too tedious. I mean, you probably have a lot of free time on your hands, but I work all day so I can't waste everybody's time just to be petty.
Airmylez (NA)
: I've honestly lost all trust in your behavior management.
I'm just gonna repeat what everybody always says. If someone start showing signs of toxicity, mute them and report them. Hell even if I muted someone who was only midly toxic I'll report them because they probably said more toxic stuff after I muted them. That's enough, and that's all you can do. Maybe if you need to vent a little you can say ONE "toxic" sentence back to them, while carefully avoiding any instant-ban words, but that's it. It's a discipline to acquire. And if you can't acquire it, then mute all at the beginning of every game.
: For real? What is this mentality. Ah god! You know what? FUCK this game and fuck this community. I quit. I am never coming back!
Who cares what some random dude thinks ? Anyway, see you in a week.
Teh Song (NA)
: If you dodge, you deserve to be reported and punished more than the person who made you want to. Mute them, play the match, and report them after.
There are many valid reasons to dodge. Dodging should not be punished - the delay that you have to go through is already good enough to ensure people don't abuse it. If someone is already toxic in champ select, then you can be pretty sure they're gonna be an awful teammate, which means the game is probably lost already, so you should dodge.
: the trollers dont get banned
Well you can't ban someone just for having a bad game, even if they end up as something like 0/10, same for off-meta build choices. However yeah maybe the flash to try and steal is trolling, and the fact that he banned your pick already says that the guy is a terrible teammate (and in that case I would have dodged but that's another story). But anyway, it's harder to detect trolls so it might require multiple reports unfortunately. I assume you already send a support ticket to report the guy, along with evidence of what he did ?
Quazo7 (NA)
: Riot lets people with disabilities be spoken to like this and will do nothing?
That's probably besides the point, but I would really love it if you could get a major news company to talk about the issues of toxicity in League, it would be nice to get some publicity on it.
: Noob problems...?
Other people already gave you pretty good advice. I'd also add that being a regular on the Summoner School discord channel really helped me. It's a discord dedicated to educational content and helping people, notably noobs, get better at the game. You can also find partners and mentors there. Here is the link: https://discord.gg/tjQ7cfd
: It's very rare that i leave my games but sometimes it extremely justified.
Yeah I never left a game or went AFK but I'm actually contemplating doing it in this type of game. Maybe they should fine tune the system so that's past 20 minutes, only 3 people have to say yes for it to work if a certain number of criterias are met (like difference in kills over a certain threshold, same for difference in objectives, that sort of thing). And I also hate people with the "never surrender" mentality. Like, do they actually enjoy getting totally stomped without being able to do anything at all ? Do they enjoy wasting their time ?
: Why is there no punishment for people who play the wrong lane on purpose?
Well I do very much hope it is punishable, because that's griefing for me. I second the other guy, you should submit a support ticket. And you don't get punished for telling people to leave your game, it's probably because you harassed them and insulted them in chat. Even in this sort of scenario, you just have to get a deep breath, mute them, and patiently wait for the game to end so that you can report them. It sucks, but otherwise you'll just get punished yourself.
: Thank you Riot Games.
Well that's an encouraging post to read, and it's nice to see people go the extra mile to improve the game's community. Thanks and congrats ! I always report toxic people, troll, inters, but I've only received the instant feedback report once, so I don't even know if it's doing anything.
: Did I say it was difficult? No. It's **weird**.
It's weird but I'm glad he's doing it to be honest.
G0DeX13 (NA)
: Perma Ban for RGB fuzion ?
If what you're saying is true, then submit a support ticket to them and ask them why you got banned.
: > [{quoted}](name=Lemexis,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=59YfIKTE,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2019-07-05T19:17:16.357+0000) > > Well it's just empirical, usually when people say stuff like that it's also followed by stuff like "I'm sick of seeing minorities in my video games" and the like. > > I mean, it's dumb and it's not an argument I would use in a debate with an intelligent and educated person. But sometimes it can be cathartic to meet stupidity with stupidity. LOL. People have an entirely different problem if they care that much about the race/skin color of a character in a video game. Believe me. They are their own minority. It has to be less than 1 percent (if we are being that generous). I'll play a character if I like them. I don't give two craps if they are white, black or whatever. One of my main characters in League is a damn bear. League technically has one of the most diverse characters in popular gaming. I have yet to see anyone say like they won't play {{champion:163}} because she is brown. You need to step outside of the college campus and realize that most reasonable people aren't actually racist. Trust me. I have seen and experienced actual racism firsthand. The crap you think is bad in League is so whatever.
Well actually I didn't mean in League but in general. You very often see people on the internet complain about "forced diversity" because there is one non-white character in the casting of a popular movie, or just throwing racial insults just like that (I don't even want to repeat it because I could be banned for just including that in my message). And I actually don't know if it's less than 1% or something. The thing that makes it worriesome is that it's so hard to determine how many people actually think this sort of thing. But all I could say is that usually, mostly in comment threads all over the web, what starts as "I'm tired of being victimized as a white male" end up in stuff that is very explicitly racist. But then again my comment was just a rant and I admit that it was pretty dumb and that it used the same logic that racist people use, ironically ("if you're like that you're more likely to be this or that").
: > [{quoted}](name=Lemexis,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=59YfIKTE,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-07-05T18:52:14.504+0000) > > We all know that's not what the person said, and judging by what you're saying, I assume you're one of those white supremacists who get offended because in 2019 you can't call people the N-word anymore and you can't feel superior because of your race. > > I really hope you'll get perma-banned. Pff, that's pretty racist of you to lump together someone with a group and assume things. It's no different than you assuming any other person of a different group with their worst racial stereotype. It's hilarious people have to use mental gymnastics and blindly accuse someone of this or that.
Well it's just empirical, usually when people say stuff like that it's also followed by stuff like "I'm sick of seeing minorities in my video games" and the like. I mean, it's dumb and it's not an argument I would use in a debate with an intelligent and educated person. But sometimes it can be cathartic to meet stupidity with stupidity.
: Welcome to Bronze, where your support spam pings "?", asks how new you are, flames you, and abandons lane to go AFK farm jungle while they argue with the mid laner all because you missed _**a**_ skillshot.
That happens with every role to be honest. I once had someone say that he would report me for trolling, that he would record the video as proof and contact riot support to get me banned. Because I missed my ult as Urgot. And I didn't get any punishment obviously, in case you were wondering.
: YES, one of the reasons I stopped playing adc solo is because I constantly get these supports who hide behind me and don’t know how to pressure, just sit there afk and when I tell them how bad they are their only excuse is that my cs is low. Like yeah no shit the enemy adc free farms because you don’t poke and I get chunked out by the sona every time I walk up to get a cs. The best supports I’ve got we’re mid laners who got autofilled who at least know how to be more aggressive and actually use abilities to poke and help me cs under tower because they know how much damage minions take. I once had a soraka that kept using q on the minions every time she had it up, I asked her why she kept wasting her abilities on the minions and her response was “I’m poking”
Yeah, that's why in SoloQ I tend to play other roles, I mainly play ADC and support when I play with a friend. I'll still occasionnally play it in SoloQ, sup too, because they're still part of the game and enjoyable, but it really limits the fun to know you just can't rely on the other botlaner to do his job :/ And damn I never had a Soraka like that but that must have sucked.
: riot support confirmed you cant be racist towards white people
We all know that's not what the person said, and judging by what you're saying, I assume you're one of those white supremacists who get offended because in 2019 you can't call people the N-word anymore and you can't feel superior because of your race. I really hope you'll get perma-banned.
: How it feels playing support sometimes
Yeah, this pretty much. However, I don't know about high elo but in low elo, playing adc with in soloQ can be just as frustrating when you have a terrible support, like when they just chill out in the back and not do anything at all. I once had a Blitzcrank who didn't even try to land a single hook before level 6 or something, and who always stood near me or behind me. To be honest I would have preferred him to just be afk, at least I would get more xp during my 1v2. And don't get me started on supports who focus the enemy tank-support when you get dived.
: nobody top lane is gonna just farm solely, they will always try to fight, even into morde and tahm.
Why would they do that if it means they're most likely going to lose ? Isn't that stupid ? No matter the lane, if I'm in a very bad matchup I just suck it up and farm safely until laning phase is over, because if I try anything else I just end up dying.
: Mordekaiser is an absolute abomination.
I play Mordekaiser a lot and I can tell you the laning phase is far from an automatic win. Ranged champs are a very tough matchup, and a few melee ones like Jax or Darius too. And Kench completely destroys me in the laning phase - I'm guessing Mordekaiser's positive winrate against him is due to the fact that Kench is simply a "win lane, lose game" champ, as many people have said. So yeah, if your top ints to him it just means they play poorly and failed to respect the champ's power in 1v1.
: In order: Lulu/Pyke/Lucian/Shen or Zed/Kassadin/anything with an attack item. imo, at least, I think that's about what you want to look for. Pyke and Lulu are the most overpowered individual units at the start of the game, and though Nid is op af right now, she's also a dime a dozen in the shop later, so she's not as much a priority as Kassadin, who's a solo champ with his mana denial.
I'll look for these champs next time, thanks for the tips !
: Make the first carousel longer?
Same, maybe I'm just too slow but I need a little more time to think and figure out a good starting point.
: I got to say this by this rate if there 2 more new champions coming out, more champions will die
To be honest I wish they would stop releasing new champ, the pool is already way too big, it really hurts new player acquisition by making the game needlessly complex. Instead they should keep reworking old champs that nobody plays anymore. That way everyone is happy. New players have a reasonable champion pool to learn, while veterans can still enjoy the excitement of regular "new champ" releases.
: Deceptive pricing in the store
Classic decoy effect. Every scammy salesman uses that. I'm not surprised Riot is doing it as well. Damn, I'd be so happy if they could be bought by literally any other gaming company.
: League is the opposite of how your suppose to act
I've observed exactly the opposite, so that's very weird. How is insulting your teammates and harassing them helping ?
: Arcade event is the wrost?
I don't know, I'm mainly in it for the champion shards and the first pass I ever bought was the MSI since I'm new so it's still good for me. Although I am happy I bought a good stack of key frags last time.
Rockman (NA)
: what a savings!
Buy it ! BUY IT NOW !
BadboyUG (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Lemexis,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6HEEvf4E,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-06-27T07:53:59.962+0000) > > What I read is that you should dodge about one ranked game _a day_ > > And as many unranked games as you want obviously, just not many in a row or you'll wait a long time. > > I can tell you that if I was in your situation I would have definitely dodged. Thanks. I regret not dodging because I was miraculously winning mid vs Yasuo as bot was being schooled by Jinn, who then snowballed and came to feed on the rest of us. Our adc went to base and afk. I didn't even bother to report. I should have known better.
Well, now you _do_ know better and you'll dodge next time, that's what matters. If you want to know where I got that from, you should read that : https://www.reddit.com/r/summonerschool/comments/972lkf/a_detailed_tactical_dodging_guide_should_you/
: Why doesn't Riot ever take Toxicity/Flaming more seriously?
Oh they are taking it very seriously, but to be honest I'm not sure they can do more than they are already doing. Many members of this community are absolutely disgusting, and it's hardly Riot's fault. Just keep in mind that there are also good people in this game, it's not all bad.
BadboyUG (EUW)
: Should I dodge if someone trolls during Champ select? (ELO HELL)
What I read is that you should dodge about one ranked game _a day_ And as many unranked games as you want obviously, just not many in a row or you'll wait a long time. I can tell you that if I was in your situation I would have definitely dodged.
: If I recall it can be used to grant First win of Day.
To be considered as a win, you have to be among the 4 top players on the game, right ? I think I saw Riot said that's how it would work in ranked.
: I don't know WHY Why do I have to stop?
What does this have to do with teamfight tactics ?
: The fck enable Practice Tool, am I supposed to test items in ranked or waste my time in normals ?
They said they disabled it for some time because of the launch of TFT. Although I don't quite get why.
: shut up weeb *epic gamer moment dab*
Alright, so you're farming that sweet gamingcirclejerk karma, I can understand that :P
: TFT: This is war
I can't wait until summer is over so that kids go to school again.
: > [{quoted}](name=Lemexis,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Knvj51Wy,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-26T16:11:44.905+0000) > > Well it doesn't stop you from adapting your playstyle and playing around it. And sure you'll have higher chances of losing and dying, but again, just don't find that annoying and you're fine. You can still have fun, just choose to have fun dying or losing for example and you'll be fine. I realise how i contradicted myself. What i meant is that you can mute toxicity but there's no feature to nullify inting/trolling. Ignoring is only a mitigating factor. > It's good for you that you're not bothered at all by toxicity, but not everybody is that lucky, some people have issues dealing with that. What about people that have issues dealing with someone wasting their time in game or otherwise trolling?
Well it's quite different from what you said initially. I can't argue with the fact that you can mute toxicity but you can't "mute" inting or trolling. And people who have issues with others trolling should report the trolls, and Riot should do something about it. I was only trying to explain why your initial logic was flawed, I'm not actually defending trolls and inters. Toxic people should be banned, trolls and inters as well. Real inters, not people who just have a bad game.
: > [{quoted}](name=Lemexis,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Knvj51Wy,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-26T15:56:06.520+0000) > > And if you don't get annoyed by troll and inters then you'll have fun, so they're not a problem and shouldn't be reported. If a troll comes in my lane and ints my opponent 10 times, i could ignore the troll and not get annoyed, but my experience is still ruined because they enemy laner is fed and unstoppable when it wasn't my fault
Well it doesn't stop you from adapting your playstyle and playing around it. And sure you'll have higher chances of losing and dying, but again, just don't find that annoying and you're fine. You can still have fun, just choose to have fun dying or losing for example and you'll be fine. I hope by now you see why this logic doesn't make sense. We all play for different reasons, and because of that we are all annoyed by different things, and we don't choose that. So if many people are bothered by something, in that case toxicity, then it should be adressed, especially if it's not that hard to do so. So that as many people as possible can enjoy the game no matter what they value most. But you can't just tell people to not be offended by toxicity, just like I can't tell you so stop considering that your experience is ruined when someone hard ints in your lane. It's good for you that you're not bothered at all by toxicity, but not everybody is that lucky, some people have issues dealing with that. And there is no way to ever justify insulting someone for something as dumb as how they play in some game. For example, I don't feel the need to flame someone even if they do very poorly as long as they try their best, but if someone tells me it makes them so angry they feel compelled to be toxic, I won't tell them "just don't be angry", I'll send them toward resources on anger management, self-control, maybe give a few classic tips they might not know about (like changing the key to type in chat). Note however that there is a key difference here : the vast majority of people who play poorly don't do it on purpose. While people choose to be toxic. That's why being toxic should be punished, while playing poorly shouldn't (I'm saying that because I see many toxic people asking to report someone because they make mistakes).
: > [{quoted}](name=Lemexis,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Knvj51Wy,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-26T13:03:37.080+0000) > It doesn't matter if it has an effect in your game since it's just a game. The point of a video game is to have fun and why a majority of people play it...
And if you don't get annoyed by troll and inters then you'll have fun, so they're not a problem and shouldn't be reported.
Kýll4Joy (EUNE)
: Chat restricted for being nice ?
I'd say it's the spam that got you chat restricted. I find it a bit too mild to deserve a punishement personally, but I get why it triggered one.
: > [{quoted}](name=Lemexis,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Knvj51Wy,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-06-26T08:20:25.526+0000) > > So if I don't care that someone is inting or trolling in my games this is a non-issue as well and I shouldn't report them ? The only way to counter verbal toxicity is to ignore it and not get offended. You can ignore a troll/inter but they still have an affect in your game
Or you can counter it by banning people who are verbally toxic so people don't have to go through the hassle of muting people every game. As for trolls, you can choose to not get annoyed by the fact you're more likely to lose, it's the same. Nobody forces you to find toxic people annoying, and nobody forces you to find trolls in your games annoying either. It doesn't matter if it has an effect in your game since it's just a game. Don't get angry about the fact that a troll ruined your game, then it's not a problem, so trolling is a non-issue. What matters in a game is the enjoyment it gives you. If toxicity reduces the enjoyment of many people, which according to the high number of complaints it does (even if you mute them afterwards), then it's a problem. As bad as trolls and inters.
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Lemexis

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