: They need to buff Lee Sin. Like....they need to buff him super hard.
lol jokes on you, I still can downvote it xD :P #Hacks
: ping "on my way" /= "I'm coming bot, keep your cc up and have kindred bait them"
and the "go away the enemy midlaner is coming" apperently means "stay where you are, and you get an icecream" In all seriousness, riot keeps giving me retarded teammates! Im not saying that in tilt, im 100% serious! look at my history! I have a 32% winrate with morgana in my last 20 games, but I have a 3,92 kda! wtf, how!? And no, I dont play for kda... Edit: In my last 40 games its a 44% winrate and a 3,87 kda
: actually its perfectly possible, just make a temporary discord voice chat with your adc
that doesnt help that much... I often ping them already, but they stay for example... its just that they are greedy guys and that was the reason why i lost my current game.
Awhegark (NA)
: How do you explain all the support mains in diamond then?. Would love to hear that one, smart ass.
a) got lucky, b) got lucky enough, c) duo with someone, d) just didnt have as many trolls, ints and feeding guys as me. Simple as that xD I was dia last season and I'm a supp main. I'm not saying its impossible, but you dont have enough impact as sup anymore. Adcs and jungler are the only guys who decide a match. And the odes are definitely not in my favor to get the ones that actually do something.....
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: She could have just used her own flash as well.
yeah thats obvious, but the keypart is that she didnt "collect" the flash bubble, she got the {{item:3152}} bubble, BUT she could flash again! So she had 2 flashes without picking up anything. and thats suspicious
: She probably collected another flash before the clip or something like that.
But she already flashed once, so she can "store" multiple flashes?! That would be absolutely ridiculous xD
: It appears that there are "summoner spell" bubbles on the ground whenever someone uses a summoner spell, and im guessing she can pick them up and immediately use them. Pause at about 45 seconds in and you can see {{summoner:4}} and {{summoner:1}} lying on the ground inside of a bubble.
Yeah I already saw that, Im talking about the fact that she flashed and then only picked up a {{item:3152}} bubble, the {{summoner:4}} bubble is still on the ground, she didnt pick it up. But she still could flash again. And thats what Im wondering about :D
nm1010 (NA)
: It is certainly going to be crazy xD I don't think they show her auto attacking without her bubbles on so its hard to tell to what extent it changes her autos.
She does seem to have normal AAs and the "bubble pop" thing seem to be like a xayah W or Ahri W projectiles, she does normal AAs, the laserbeam, vs viktor, and then the "bubble pop" projectile flies towards him, later when she still has 2 bubbles she AAs with a normal Laserbeam again, vik dies and the rest of the bubbles pop with doing anything. So it doest seem to be an enhanced AA, but some extra homing projectils
nm1010 (NA)
: If you slow it down after she autos a bubble pops and flies at whomever she autos. At least when I slowed down the fight on Viktor that is what happened, and yes she gets more bubbles after using a summoner. They could also enhance her summoners I suppose, but that could get really crazy really quickly.
imagen the chaos in a team fight xD bubbles everywhere! It replaces her AA using a bubble, but the projectile doesnt seem more powerfull, it feels like a xayah W, thats what im talking about ;D
nm1010 (NA)
: Oh god she can store them for some period of time xD That is the only thing I can think of at least.
Im a bit unsure because of the 3 bubbles around her, they go down to 2 at the first AA, but go back up after collecting the buble/flashing, assumingly the enhance something? For AAs, which I assume, the visuals feel weak, doesnt feel like an enhanced AA to be honest
nm1010 (NA)
: Literally just spent like 30 minutes analyzes the video to make the same thread xD She can also auto while moving, probably as part of the spawn 3 bubbles ability.
did you see that she flashed again at ~0:40 but didnt collect the flash bubble? I try to figure out how this is possible, she collected a {{item:3152}} bubble but not the flash bubble :/
: This was an actual play in-game so it's all above board. You'll be able to figure it out when you see her kit.
Damn it my theorycrafter senses are tingeling, I want to figure it out right now xD May I ask who animated the kick of the sleep bubble? Thats a 10/10 animation!
: The full story will be coming yes indeed, but you raise some interesting points about how kids dress in Runeterra and what region/s Zoe's clothes are from. I can at least confirm that Zoe dresses herself, so as you can imagine her style is far from typical. I think during development I repeatedly said to people 'You're American but you don't walk around wearing a stars-and-stripes baseball cap' just as I shy away from the wife beater, stubbies and thongs that are the uniform of [my people](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5f/f0/bf/5ff0bf2597cc322ea6388b1643aea065.jpg). You'll have characters like Garen that wear their faction's colours proudly, and others like Lucian who prefer their own style.
Can I slip in a quick question? Im trying to figure out how she works exactely :D at ~0:39 Zoe flashed, and shortly after that flashed again, but she didnt collect the flash bubble (she collected the {{item:3152}} bubble) a) it was a visual bug b) ups, we missed something there c) everything is correct as seen! EDIT:) btw. the kick of the sleep bubble looks pretty nice thematically speaking, GG to whoever did that, or as we say in German "GeeGEE!" ;P
: New Champ: Zoe, the Aspect of Twilight preview
Wait a minute! Look at 0:40! She flashed and didnt pick up the flash bubble!!! It was the {{item:3152}} -bubble but she still flashed again! I call hacks! Also, damn sleep (epic for ganks) and all this mobility, certainly a CertainlyT work... It wasnt really explained how her 3 bubbles work (at the start vs viktor). What do they? Doesnt seem to be a skillshot but p&c and 3 enhanced AA's? And I cannot see any "attacks" coming from her. Nether normal nor enhanced ones :/
Porocles (NA)
: Matchmaking doesn't consider blocked players. While it 's a great way to prevent potential harassment from a player, using it to block players from joining the same game could be incredibly abusive. There's likely chance that folks might use it negatively or to avoid players who had a bad game. In addition to blocking, make sure to use the reporting tool so we can review cases of negative gameplay.
Im honestly not so sure about the incredibly abusiv part, of course it can be "abused" to rule out "bad" players judged only by 1 game, but normaly people show there true colors in these matches. And I dont have fun playing with them again, nor do they have fun to play with me (assumingly). So it can happen that someone gets blocked because of their performance, I personally only block them if they are toxic, not because they played badly. So while I agree that there are cases of "abuse" possible, but to me the benefits outwage this by alot. And yes I will still report them too. Speaking it doesnt feel that impactfull to report them, I know they will evtl. get punished but it doesnt **feel** impactfull :/ So did you ever had a disscussion about blocking influencing matchmaking? Or maybe I could roll the ball a bit and you guys might look into it? Again, to me it feels pretty onesided in terms of benefits vs risks, and only in rare cases at dia+ could possible influence the "pool" of guys you can play with, the rest should be fine if you block a couple duzent of guys. (maybe this block could be a temporary 1 month block too, if you are concerned about the pool) Just thossing some ideas out at this point :P Anyway thx for your fast reply, you guys at player sup do an awesome job! Dealing with the frontend on this is surely not an easy task :P
  Rioter Comments
: all rotating modes should be played with a full premade if you want to win. Period.
Well, first: most of us are solos, lone wolfs in the savanas of the elo hell. Second, you can beat it with 5 randoms if you do it right. Why would you need to be premades?
Rioter Comments
: SHOCKER, THE META CHANGED TO STACKING CRIT FOR WARLORDS PROCS, BORK GOT NERFED, AND CLEAVER + BORK WAS NERFED! Have you watched a single fucking pro game in the last 3 fucking months. EVERY. SINGLE. MAGE. BUILDS. TORMENT. **Syndra, Taliyah, Orianna, Cassiopeia** Fucking shocker, GA doesn't give MR anymore. Another shocker, ADCs still don't build GA. Seriously, go check. Barely built in this meta. GA is bruiser item now, and thank fucking god. Games were boring when tank junglers just fucking rushed GA 2nd or 3rd. If Darius is "better than Cho'Gath" then why is Cho'Gath literally worth a ban in diamond compared to Darius who is basically a troll pick? Seriously, just ask yourself: Why is no one picking Darius and why Cho'Gath instead? Who gives a shit about Darius's R when he needs to charge it up, and who cares about his damage if he dies in 3 seconds? As you can see, not in a good mood.
I dont care about moods, facts dont change regardless of someones mood, so why bother? Just because the meta changes doesnt make an Item "shit". Its all about priorisation. If people would build botrk as 1st or 2nd item HP stacking tanks would be no problem. See if you are ill and there is a medicine for that, but you choose to do something else instead of taking the medicine its is completely your own fault. You have a problem and there is a solution to that, but if you dont do the solution you have no right to complain. :D Yes, they build it in proplay because they use their brain and choose the correct itemization! But not everybody out of proplay does this. Thats my hole point! Hey, I can only show you solutions to the "Cho is annoying" problem. GA is a possibly solution vs him and assassins. But back then you "lost" alot of power for the tradeoff of survivability, right now you only "lose some" power. And you dont see it in Proplay because people know how to peel and position! Yes, Darius is overall better, a stronger Champ, but Cho is a bulletsponge in teamfights. And thats valued in proplay right now, because in this adc meta you want to give your adc time to scale (which they do alot faster nowadays, bad decision in my book btw). And having a meatshield in the mid game is valued more than a better champion. So his popularity is only because of this "meatshield midgame for adc" from proplay copied meta. If the crit scaling goes down a bit people might build botrk again and then Cho will 100% not be a problem anymore. The ardense nerf on the pbe is a good direction, so we might see botrk back soon. Or just play fiora vs him and he will not be a problem... Try only HP stacking vs % truedmg xD
: BoRK is shit though. Every mage is building Torment. ADCs lose significant damage if they build GA. This meta, ADCs can't afford to lose damage. Darius also can be kited, has less CC, and actually takes damage. Also his nuke is for 600 AFTER 5 STACKS, not 1000 instant.
> BoRK is shit though. No, it is not. A couple of months ago it was even the GoTo rush item so you can deal with tanks in the midgame... > Every mage is building Torment. No not everyone is building it, but its popularity has gone up a bit. But again mages dont have the mana & cds midgame to kill HP tanks only with a liandries. And most arent supossed to kill those tanks this way anyway. > ADCs lose significant damage if they build GA. This meta, ADCs can't afford to lose damage. GA was MR and Armor only some time ago... It was actually improved for adcs/AD Champs. Also a dead 1 shoted ADC always does less dmg than an ADC who survives a Cho Ult, because of the GA... Im not advising you to rush it, but to consider it as ~3rd if you are bad at positioning and/or your team bad at peeling. > Darius also can be kited, has less CC, and actually takes damage. Also his nuke is for 600 AFTER 5 STACKS, not 1000 instant. I would need to go quiet indepth if we want to compare Cho and Darius accuratelly. So the short version: Darius is better. Has better CC, better laningphase, more reliable, more carrypotential and can heal up midfight. Also he can nuke up to 5 people and Cho only 1, but Cho is better as a bulletsponge.
: Out of curiosity, why do you feel like he is in need of any nerfs?
As someone who actually does the math on these things, let me explain why they feel like Cho needs nerfs: They suck at league and dont know what movement, itemiazition and % dmg is! xDD ___ **Ok, seriously now!** He is only "annoying" to play against because if he gets ahead or even, he becomes a massiv HP monster in the midgame. Where most people nether have the items nor thier spikes already. (A Tris with only an IE will not do much to a 4k HP Cho for 15 seconds+) So his "powerspike" is annoying to anyone without % dmg in their kits in the midgame. And they forget that {{item:3036}},{{item:3153}},{{item:3151}} and {{item:3026}} exist in this game. So its easier to complain and rage than to think and itemiaze correctly. The statistics also prove that he is only "good" but far from overpowered etc. others are WAY stronger! His kit is the definition of "outplayable" already. Ontop because he is a HP monster people waste their important cds on him, so the enemy carries can just clean up everything. Yes, his True dmg is a bit high, but normaly if it "one shots" you, he ether is feed or you look at a 60+min game. Or you made other mistakes like beeing in his easy to dodge Q... Complaining "tank dealing so much dmg...!" ..... Do you by chance know this guy {{champion:122}}?.... Cho can omnomnom 1, Darius can delete all 5. ____ **To bring it all together:** Yes, he might be a tiny bit annoying to play against, but so are 50+ other champs...... There is not a single valid argument why Cho definitely needs to be nerfed. **BUT** if you guys still consider that he needs some nerfs, I propose a powershift back to AP Cho! Lower HP scaling on his Ult for better AP scaling for example. Also would you mind fixing his Q hitbox? Its actual hitbox is a bit smaller than the visuals. (Compare the Q hitbox accuracy with Taliyahs W and you see a day and night difference! I can provide pics if wanted :D) Thanks for the attention, lets see how many people got triggered by my first sentence xD
: MSF Appreciation Thread
They are called "Höppelepöps" here in germany xD
Rioter Comments
Chermorg (NA)
: I just don't see how it's a good foundation - you have 27+3 variables that you throw into the first 10 minutes of the game that are for all intents and purposes completely random and unpredictable, making champions way too variable in early game strength. But I never liked runes to begin with - so maybe I'm a tad biased.
Theres more than just 1 problem here which needs adressing. First the comprimation to just 6 choices (7 if we count the tree bonuses) from ~60. Every choice in theory now has 10x more impact. Thus creating more extremes, ether it fits really nice or meh and that limits variety, aka "off picks" The other thing is the limit of choice. Our runes give you the option of counteracting certain matchups and to round up build with cdr or whatever you are missing/want or even double down on something. If these "countermeasurements" and "roundups" are hidden in certain runes the rest of the tree needs to fit aswell. And thats not always the case. Want early MR vs lane matchup, 45% max cdr, Attackspeed and Ad? Nope, sr not possible... Especially Mixed/Hyrid/offroles often have this problem, because they need a variety of stats. Flat stats are and will always be boring (except to theorycrafters like me :D), but they often are needed and you cant always make them look nice and interactive. "The Ultimate Hat" for example is basically extra cdr for your ult... This is also only a boring flat stat. But I havent seen a single complaint about that one. I can accept both, the current and the new system, but I'm certainly not fully happy with ether. Both could still use a bit of work.
: I dunno. I think it proved why some people think pro-play is scripted (poorly) sometimes. :P Like, seriously? FNC again? Could you at least pick a team that's more likeable and less arrogant next time Rito? NOTE: I do not actually think pro-play is scripted. Just... ugh FNC.
Even then, you must admit today was pretty exciting/nervewrecking, right? :D
Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 11
Regarding the basestat adjustments in combination of the new resolve runes Iron Skin, Mirror Shell, and Conditioning, doesnt the 3 armor/MR from Iron Skin and Mirror Shell feel extremely weak? (sup tanks get +20 base armor from the adjustments) and both also get outclassed by Conditioning by a lot. Just saying that you might want to take a look at them again, they also feel pretty lackluster :/
: Patch Chat with the Playtest Team - 7.20
____ While its not exactely champion related, what do you think about the new resolve tree in runes reforged? Especially the Trio: Iron Skin, Mirror Shell and Conditioning. And keep in mind this is only a personal prefernce question and not an "offical riot stance"! If personally view them as quiet improvable. My favorites so far are ether a __Early and scaling only against Armor__ *VS* __Early and scaling only against MR__ *VS* __Later and scaling, but a little weaker__ (a bit like the Hybrid Pen vs Solo Stats Pen runes) **OR** a __Early mixed__ *VS* __later and scaling mixed__ and we get a free runeslot for some more maybe more interactiv rune with this one. Example for **EarlySolo** vs **EarlySolo** vs **LaterMixed**: >Iron Skin: 6 armor + 6 armor and 10% armor scaling @10mins >Mirror Shell: 6 MR + 6 MR and 10% MR scaling @10mins >Conditioning: 10Armor and MR @10mins + 7% Armor and MR scaling @10mins. ____ What do you think in general and about the idea/s? Thanks for your time :D
: "Being Bad is the First Step to Not Being Bad"
The good thing about hitting rock bottom is that you cant fall any deeper.... And also: If you are good at something never do it for free!!! (beeing the worst at something in this case) Use these informations as you like ;D awesome, but weird, christmas gnar on fire -thingy! {{sticker:sg-shisa}}
: While I do not agree with needing more free pages, I up voted you for being such an entertaining writer. Best of luck with everything. {{sticker:vlad-salute}}
btw these stickers are pretty nice but who or what the hell is this? --> {{sticker:sg-shisa}} <-- ??? Oh wait I should have used this one in my "threatening": {{sticker:sg-jinx}} "Yuuk... " eh, I mean: "Cactopus -i" xD Hitting them with a little bit of psycho ;P This is quiet a bit more terrifing than that chrismas gnar on fire thingy! :'D
: While I do not agree with needing more free pages, I up voted you for being such an entertaining writer. Best of luck with everything. {{sticker:vlad-salute}}
While it breaks my theorycrafting heart that someone would say no to more and easier theorycrafting, I do tip my hat to you kind Sir! Yours is (sadly) a rather rare stance here on boards :/ But it makes me happy that you atleast felt entertained (dispite the horrendous grammatical mistakes, its 2 am here in germany and Im to lazy/not capable anymore to correct them xD)! The best I would bargin for is to get 20 pages, like mastery pages. But additonally a raised cap (double the amount atleast!) But since I know I'm a rather small minority I would hope to get 5 fixed and 5 free, + our "unlocked" rune pages (still remove the max 20 pages cap) Thats my goal with this thread :D
Rioter Comments
: We additionally nerfed his primary rush item with Righteous Glory going up in price by 150g. Made his lane less safe against certain match-ups with Bramble Vest costing 100g more in 7.19. I was tasked to investigate him further for 7.20 but gave the suggestion we hold off. As you can imagine it was a contentious proposal. But, his ban rate is dropping. His win rate certainly isn't out of line in my opinion. I'm pretty confident players will continue to find more champions to counter him as the systems favor him less. I think we definitely have levers to pull if we need to nerf him. Some of the directions I found most promising were as follows: 1. **Reduce the consistency of his crowd control chaining.** Probably would aim at an E duration nerf for this. 2. **Make his scaling less guaranteed.** He gets to uber tank status pretty easily with mostly minion Feasts. Easy-ish option would be to lower the number he can get from feasting low priority targets. 3. **Make him pay a higher cost for his damage. ** If he wants massive Feasts we could make him build more AP. This is a more dangerous direction as I personally don't think Mage Cho is a particularly compelling pattern but for someone building no offensive items he's probably doing too much damage. I'm sure we'll keep an eye on Cho'Gath in the next couple of patches and the next designer assigned may come to a different conclusion than I did. I'm not sure my reasoning will be particularly comforting for the OP but I wanted to allay any fears that we're ignoring Cho.
Well based on the statistics I can access he is not even that strong, he is only annyoing to play against because he can just stack a crap ton of hp early, which makes him very hard to kill in the midgame. (And alot of people forget about this{{item:3034}}{{item:3036}}{{item:3153}} ) And thats it... Im sure you figuered about the same. Also ChoGaths kit is already the definition of "outplayable". While I dont see any balance problems in him, if you decide to nerf him why not shift his power more to AP cho again?
: Worlds 2017 Drinking Game.
Dude are you trying to kill us? 1 game is enough for 90% to get wasted beyond recovery already xD
: Iron skin and mirror shield are just garbage, and are so awkward because they're early game runes that have a very weak effect that scales into late game, but then drops off again at full build when you can't use consumables. Having two of the same rune essentially just shows a lack of creativity. And combining them would at least be a step in making them okay. Personally, I think they should both be replaced with better options.
Some do have heals in there kit and possibly Grasp so its not "only" consumables, but the early game buff is still a joke.
Jackom1 (EUW)
: Well, the bonus is conditional on 20 health restored, which isn't a lot, but it's still implied that the champ using these runes has some degree of self healing. We don't know yet if self-regen counts toward this bonus, although i hope that it won't, otherwise the 20 health condition would be meaningless. Still, they could add that the runes work only on self healing, so no soraka shenanigans. That way, rammus and malphite (and galio for mirror shell) would be forced to take conditioning, since they lack any kind of self healing besides health regen. If they can't heal themselves in some way, they can't get either the bonus armor or the bonus mr (depending on the rune). Also, making the runes stats means that, in order to make full use of the runes, the champion must not only be able to self heal himself, but to do it consistently, at least in some windowed instances. Mundo comes to mind, and since he's also been made to better counter ap champions, him being able to full use MIRROR SHELL during the ult would be a good thing, and it would only be during the ult, since mundo's passive is counted as simple health regen. Also, both iron skin and mirror shell offer a much more dinamic gameplay: You have to heal yourself in order to get the bonus stats, but most melee champions need to go into melee to get any form of healing, which means that you can only make use of those runes if you commit to a fight. Not only that, but you need to fight those champions that this rune will eventually counter (there would be no point to fight a mage if you're going to stack iron shield). That to me sounds like healthy gameplay, because it is dictated by decision-making. Conditioning on the other hand is simply: don't look too hard for fights in the first 10 minutes of the game, then do what you want. You're getting only 6% bonus mr and armor anyway, which isn't a lot. 6% of 300 is 18... it describes itself. 10% of 300 is 30, now we're talking, kinda. But to get that 10%, you have to heal yourself at least twice in a 5 seconds window, during which there is a 99% chance that you're into a teamfight. Otherwise, chances are you've wasted a necessary heal. Additionally, if you take iron shield, for instance, it means that you're going to invest into armor, which will eventually leave you open to champions who deal magic damage. Again, counterplay. You don't have that dinamic with conditioning. I think that a 10% bonus behind the self-healing condition (now it's just healing in general) would be ok for both iron skin and mirror shell. Conditioning probably needs to go back to drawing board, since it provides no kind of dinamics besides take this bunch of free stats after 10 minutes. Conditioning could work based on the kind of damage you're currently tanking. "Gain 6% bonus mr for 5 seconds when you suffer magic damage. Gain 6% armor when you suffer physical damage. 10 seconds CD. Both bonuses have separate CDs and can be present at the same time".
In general most people think health regen is excluded from the "heal 20 Hp" condition, so the 5% (or uping it to 10%) is still not a reliable buff, execpt for those with heals. There could be some synergy with grasp too. Nevertheless all three are still pretty boring, but with the modifications you atleast always have a reactiv choice depending on the situation/enemy and not a "this one rune is always the best for me".
: > [{quoted}](name=Lord Desert,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XcEd2Htk,comment-id=00040000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-06T17:44:51.246+0000) > > Is this already with my modifications in mind or not? If you talk about the current ones, I 100% agree, they are rubbish and completely infirior to Conditioning, especially with the base stat adjustment! > The modifications on the otherhand should make it an actual choice no, i mean the way they are on the pbe/riots preseason rune page. theyre garbage.
ok, and what about my modifications? Are they atleast decent? or still pretty weak? The good thing is, I just shifted some stats and removed the weird potion part. So Riot can easily do that. On the otherhand its still boring as hell, but atleast better than the current runes xD
: That's what I'm most concerned about; if we *did* take away flat resistances in the stats, we'd need to replace them with something equally good. There's an awful lot of % resistance spiking going on in these masteries, and I'm not sure what we could replace it with that would be better. Maybe shields that scale with resistances, instead of just most flat resists? I don't know how that would work with true damage or what the trigger would be, but I feel like a little more creativity is needed. I think your changes are good, and I don't think the current masteries are necessarily weak, anyway. I just wish there was something more interesting going on there.
yep thats the problem :/ and sadly tanks stats are pretty hard to balance to be "fun/visual" for tanks, but also not beyond broken for others xD It often is a thin line between those.
: > [{quoted}](name=Lord Desert,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XcEd2Htk,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2017-10-06T16:56:35.987+0000) > > A 10%/10min scalingt is horrifing! I would agree to a 10% bonus @ 10 min and +2,5%/10 min ;D > > Your new suggestion feels a bit weak compared to then other two, or am I missing something? It isn't fleshed out or anything, but the idea of it is for characters that can easily recover their health and like to stick in battles. They'd get continually more resistances (with no cooldown) just from fighting. It could also be replaced with something like Fearless that procs temporary burst resistances against assassins.
We have something similar to fearless as a keystone already so they wouldnt make that again. But infight stacking, like fevor, but with resistances sounds pretty nice to me! It would also benefit tanks the most so its not as easy to abuse by others :D
Naqel (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Lord Desert,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XcEd2Htk,comment-id=000a00000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-06T18:45:45.575+0000) > > Then sadly no one would take Iron Skin for sure, Mirror Shell has some funny interactions with dps and burst, which would need to be sorted out first. 10 less physical damage(~15% of an AA for most marksmen) when there's merely 25% of your HP missing in a level 1 trade, that grows even further as you get more wounded and only really falls off in value once the enemy gets a BF sword is nothing to scoff at. That kind of early game reduction could be the difference between making it to the first back and death in certain matchups. And if is was allowed to apply to anything, and not just champions, it'd make for some really safe early jungle clears. There is ton of potential here for early power, without any other benefits. Mirror Shell is specifically short-lived no-cooldown because of those funny interactions. Suddenly the enemy mage has to think how they apply their rotation, or they lose a chunk of damage if they just try to dump everything at once.
I surely understand that and it is definitely not weak in the early game, but tanks still would not go for it. Tanks dont really care about the early game ;D Only in very, very bad situations/matchups. With the extra scaling it could be good enough even lategame to be picked by tanks. Mirror Shell is definitely good vs burst and dps but tanks normaly can take burst easily. Also not getting armor is not really good for tanks. So both can be usefull for tanks but might even be better off
: No. A) I think an early game rune should have no scaling at all, that defeats the purpose of it. B) There is no such thing as a 'full AD team'. Even champions who would seem to have entirely AD scaling kits deal magic damage, such as Garen's Demacian Justice and Zed's Contempt for the Weak. AD and AP are irrelevant, what matters is whether the champion deals physical or magic damage, and almost every non-mage is some mix of the two. Every mage is pretty much full magic damage, so you want MR. Versus a top lane bully I would rely on the new sweet 9 armor buff I've received, and take Conditioning because laning phase is not everything. I can outplay my opponents by dodging abilities or making smart trades, I don't need to out stat check them.
The problem is, tanks dont value the early game that much like you said here: >Versus a top lane bully I would rely on the new sweet 9 armor buff I've received, and take Conditioning because laning phase is not everything. I can outplay my opponents by dodging abilities or making smart trades, I don't need to out stat check them. There is no reason for tanks/tankier champs to pick an ONLY early game buff rune... (which is also pretty bado), if there is a scaling/lategame rune availabe. And thats is **excatly** the point why I gave the early game rune a scaling! But this scaling is also better! But its just for a single stat! Not both like Conditioning. Btw. with "AD or AP combs" I meant teams that deal almost exclusively physical or magic dmg. But this takes longer to read and write... A team consisting out of darius, lee, jayce, kalista and rankan is a "AD comb" or a team that deals almost no magic dmg. They deal some but you dont build aginst magic dmg. Atbest you opt for 1 hybrid tank item(MR and AR). Thats it. You dont need/want to get the +5% Mr. You would rather have 6 more armor in the laningphase, + 6 armor and 7% armor @ 10 min, than 10Ar&MR and 5%Ar&MR at @10 mins. So this trade off of beeing better in the laning phase AND being better vs a certain comb actually makes them decent a choice vs the allround package. Currentely absolutely no one will ever pick ether Iron Skin or Mirror Shell, not a chance! And thats what I wanted to change :D
Naqel (EUW)
: Oh, that's already in the post: > Iron Skin and Mirror Shell should both have effects that are completely detached from straight up stat boosts. So "C" I suppose, just the effects I suggest, no stats of any kind.
Then sadly no one would take Iron Skin for sure, Mirror Shell has some funny interactions with dps and burst, which would need to be sorted out first. The double scaling resistance stat would be to good for tanks to pass up. Exept if your Iron Skin would come with a 1/1.5/2 scaling at lvl 1/7/13. Then Tanks eventually might pick it up, but its only physical. But you also dont see this effect so it would be just another "stat". Your Mirror Shell is most effectiv vs Burst and long dps but the effectivness is hard to judge. There are potential situations, but the safe Ar and MR buff might be preferable for most guys :/ I wouldnt see that much of a problem by adding those on top to ether the current rune or my version, but as stand alone in the tank tree is a bit more difficult. But definitely not impossible! Dont get me wrong I still very much like your suggestions :D
Naqel (EUW)
: Anything that makes Iron Skin and Mirror Shell an actual choice to make is good. I like my ideas best of course, not just because they are mine, but also because they open the row to competition among non-tanks.
No, I meant what would the rune look like xD So for example: a) **Iron Skin:** 3 Armor + "Whenever you heal for at least 20 health or from a consumable's effect, increase your Armor by 5% for 3s." Reduce Physical damage received by 1 for every 2.5% of HP missing. b) **Iron Skin:** 6 Armor + 6 Armor and +7% Armor at 10 min Reduce Physical damage received by 1 for every 2.5% of HP missing. (Or other modified values) c)**Iron Skin:** Reduce Physical damage received by 1 for every 2.5% of HP missing. What would you like/suggest?
Naqel (EUW)
: Iron Skin and Mirror Shell should both have effects that are completely detached from straight up stat boosts. For example: -Iron Skin: Reduce Physical damage received by 1 for every 2.5% of HP missing. <- Very strong in an early physical lane, quickly diminishes in value as attacks become more powerful. -Mirror Shell: Gain a Magic Shield for 0.5 second after taking Magic Damage, equal to 10% of damage taken. <- Effectively a scaling MR boost, but one that can be played around by staggering the attacks.
Very nice, these are exactly the type of ideas I wanted to hear to make these crappy runes more interesting! Would you still go with my modifications ontop? Or maybe change them a little? Or with the current runes?
: > [{quoted}](name=Lord Desert,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XcEd2Htk,comment-id=000400000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-06T17:22:31.376+0000) > > This basically means that you will lose something, which was helpfull in the early game, after you sold the potions. It doesnt feel good, but it is acceptable. > The only thing now is: Would someone pick this? > We are in the tank tree so tanks must pick 1 of the 3 in the row, and other could pick it as a secondary. > So is it strong/good enough for &quot;tanks&quot;? Or would other classes pick this up? no one in his right mind would pick one of those 2 runes the way they are. if someone does, hes just bad at math. there is literally no competition between conditioning and the other 2 runes. its always conditioning 100% of the time. id rather pick inspiration secondary for celestial body to get some early game defense, or sorcery for nullifying orb than to waste a slot on iron skin or mirror shield. make the risistance bonus actually large enough to count at lvl 1-3 and people might want to pick it up to deal with their lane matchup. but not 3 to 5 points of resistance of which they later lose the 2 extra points.
Is this already with my modifications in mind or not? If you talk about the current ones, I 100% agree, they are rubbish and completely infirior to Conditioning, especially with the base stat adjustment! The modifications on the otherhand should make it an actual choice
: Conditioning is great. With the base stat adjustments no one needs a buff at level 1. Just never take the other two.
Yep thats exactly the reason why I buffed those too to have some advantages over Conditioning (small ones, but raised all tree also a bit up) Would you take one of those two with my modifications over Conditioning? When facing a Full AD comb? VS Darius or Renektion or Jayce toplane?
: > [{quoted}](name=Lord Desert,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XcEd2Htk,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-06T17:09:03.152+0000) > > I thought so too, also this potion/healing thing feels a bit weird, I can understand the intention to buff up in a fight but still the wording feels off. And I&#x27;m still not sure if this &quot;heal for 20HP&quot; could be done with normal HP regen, which would make sense for a 5% buff which becomes usefull only later. the condition is really only for consumables. i guess you could pull it off with {{item:2138}} lategame, but it would only be the 3 seconds from the initial activation. the potion trigger isnt even bad as long as it would be confined to the early game and then just give you the bonus at 10 minutes. youre basically going in with {{item:2003}} {{item:2033}} {{item:2031}} into a fight and youre good for the bonus. but at some point around midgame, you just want to sell your potion or not buy health pots anymore. the bonus just needs to become permanent then.
This basically means that you will lose something, which was helpfull in the early game, after you sold the potions. It doesnt feel good, but it is acceptable. The only thing now is: Would someone pick this? We are in the tank tree so tanks must pick 1 of the 3 in the row, and other could pick it as a secondary. So is it strong/good enough for "tanks"? Or would other classes pick this up?
Paroe (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Lord Desert,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XcEd2Htk,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-10-06T01:52:09.298+0000) > > I personally like those ideas, but they are pretty niche and become meaningfull only very late into the game and could be counters/focused only vs certain champs, like yasou. Knowing riot they definitely wouldnt go that route :/ > > Also these numbers are a bit high considering the current pace and other runes, they are atleast on keystone rune level. And I think Ghostcrawler just mentioned recentely that they would rather fix the root of a problem than just to make a counter to something (Was about an antishield mechanic). They arent exactly niche but theyre situational. Marksman hit their 'lategame' with IE/zeal item right now and crit is absurdly strong. Likewise if youre a tank in the mid lane then the penetration resisance would be super nice. If the enemy team has a lot of sustained damage (cass, ryze, corki, lucian, etc) taking the time-game damage reduction might be the best choice. But due to how tanks work, it will always depend.
It would be pretty nice to have penetration resistance, but only that from a rune is not good since it becomes usefull way to late into the game! Every rune ether gives something now or atleast somewhat "early" aka midgame. AntiPen would only be lategame relavant, or in some matchups, which riot wanted to avoid :/ I do agree that adcs hit their "lategame" way to early, which then requiers tanks and midgame champs to be effizent earlier which then increases snowballing even further. And down the rabit hole we go... The an AntiCrit rune is a way to go, but there might be better was to fight against this problem than a rune. The up to 20% dmg reduction is extremely strong, and the condition you added is definitely needed to avoid abuse, but even then it might be a bit to strong especially on HP stacking, but it could still work.
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Lord Desert

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