: Why not just revert early game Fiora buffs? Seriously?
The problem we have with most champs currently is about lifesteal. Keep her damage and kit, remove her lifesteal and see how that end up. Do the same with draven and twitch. It is so obvious that life steal should be toned down a lot or even replaced with hp or others form of defense.
: Can we eventually have a buff on Wit's end ?
Make it an ap + as item that compete with nashor tooth. Maybe that looks like brk for ap as guys. Maybe with a rework of spellvamp or any sustain (more balanced than life steal). Something that people like azir or diana would buy. Just like vayne or irelia buy brk.
: When it comes to mages, burst and artillery are pretty shit at killing tanks, and probably aren't even targeting you specifically, so any damage you do take from then is just random AOE/blocked skillshots. Battle Mages on the other hand, will destroy tanks with their {{item:3135}} {{item:3151}} {{item:3116}} . That's the entire reason for the existence of {{item:3194}} - before that item, battle mages would tear through 1 MR item tanks like nothing
Most people don't make a difference between let's say {{champion:7}} who is a burst mage that is totally not made to deal with tanks and {{champion:69}} or {{champion:268}} that have the dps to kill them almost as fast as a marksmen.
: mana is botlane azirs biggest problem besides actually making it through laning phase This guy made a really good guide for azir apc http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/platinum-marksman-azir-emperors-flurry-411816 He's an ad malz jungle main(one of the few remaining)
: yeah, i tried vladimir and it's the **exact** same, too much poke except that with vladimir it's not from lvl 1 to lvl 3, but from lvl 1 to like lvl 6 or 7
Well I went to the same conclusion and now I go ad runes on Cassiopeia when I play her bot to match their poke even if I play her ap. It might be just ad runes that are op.
: Everyday i use my 300 IQ to invent a new Botlane
Did you anything else beside ad melee bot? Like DPS mages.
: I don't really understand what you said, but they're complaining about it because it's extremely good on bruisers and ADC's. I would think that the bleed reducing more damage over a period while ADC's lifesteal most of it back up with the same item is considered broken.
I am just trying to say that I think the problem are the sustain and the damage and not the bleed effect that is a solution of the one shot meta. In others words, nerf the sustain and the AD, not the bleed passive as it is a good thing.
: "Lets just double the bleed effect from Deaths Dance"
Why are you all so focused on the thing that prevent the one combo you are dead instead of the ridiculous damage that marksmen deal while lifestealing so much all your damage?
: Spellvamp was a problem, but Lifesteal, Attack Damage Vamp and Damage turned into Bleed is fine.
Yeah I imagine they were too lazy to rework spell vamp into something balanced and now the same problem come with lifesteal.
: The solution isn't just longer games but you hinted at that already Objectives need to be better balanced, i like the drakes for example since it's a permanent buff thus very worth and more so if games last longer Games need to be longer ofc but early game powerhouses need a way to make their earlygame count, this is where drake like objectives come in, the ability to get an advantage the enemy can't just gain by stalling. which wasa problem in previous seasons because any sort of gold lead became less effective as time passed. New herald is a pretty decent objective too and could be tweaked for when towers are to be more buff as a means to break the turtle, similar to baron There are plenty of improvements to be made though but riot went into the right direction with those changes First turret gold isn't bad either it gives incentive to go and get that first turret down But the weakened botlane turret needs to go. Adc are indeed very polarizing they wield too much power as a class and need to be more in line with other classes. with good lategame options and good earlygame options and possibly itemization changes to tone down their absurd point and lick lategame damage but keep their strenght at shredding objectives to keep them valuable as a class when objectives get stronger Furthermore i think it would be better if some of their dps power got shifted into actual abilities you can outplay, dodge or block with a tank etc For losing some of their lategame power i think it would be best to buff their midgame and utility they could offer
I agree with everything. I really hope rito will move in this direction.
Rioter Comments
Eedat (NA)
: PSA: A Bleed is not Damage Reduction
Bleed is just strong if you can recover some hp while the passive ticks. Reduce the sustain on every items, reduce the tankyness of drain tanks.
: Funny, i can't remember GP getting buffs? Why should marksmen be allowed to exist early game ? Why CANT we nerf adcs early game but GP is still shit early game and has to scale like he always does? Why has one champ to suffer from that meta and adcs get a free out of jail card by buffs to their itemization?
You compare one champion to an entire class.
KayZet (EUW)
: I think the main problem here is just how much damage reduction an ADC can get currently... Deaths Dance 30% (that he would have to heal up tho) Phantom Dancer 12% Knight's Vow 12% we could also count the resistances that Windspeakers Blessing Keystone give as damage reduction here. Altogether an AD can get 54% damage reduction. He will still take some of that damage from Death's Dance but that's where the second currently too strong thing comes in: Heal and Shield amplification. Supports and support junglers can amp up their heals and shields by over 50% aswell not to mention that there is a good item, Redemption, that gives another heal to champions who already have heals and shields. Add to that, that AD itemization was buffed multiple times recently due to the ADC in 2k16/2k17 meme so that ADCs now have the ability to outdamage/outmitigate an Assassins damage. In my humble opinion the problem in general is that high elo/professional ADC mains cry too loud when Assassins are able to assassinate them and Riot listens to high elo/professional players. Nowadays it's not even "a good ADC can solocarry a game" anymore... it's just "the better botlane wins"
I think it is the opposite, they have too much damage from the defensive power available to protect them. As long as they are that strong, the game will remain the same.
: I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not. If you are, then you must be an adc main responding to all the hate they've been getting on the boards lately. If you are not being sarcastic, then you should know it's hardly been only 1 patch where they are "strong". Literally every other role has gotten their items made cheaper but at the cost of being less effective late game. Meanwhile adc's get items made cheaper or no change to cost but don't lose any effectiveness of the item regardless of if price was lowered or not. Furthermore, they get tons of new items designed specifically to make them deal more damage, heal/lifesteal more, attack faster, and survive more burst and sustained damage pumped out by the enemy team - both through items they buy (pd, dd, etc.) and through their supports (any heal/shield item, locket, knight's vow, probably missing something). It is utter stupidity - and on top of all this, many have gotten buffs. The clearly overtuned ones get the most minor of nerfs - if any other role were equally overtuned, the nerfs would be at least 3x as harsh.
I think it is wrong in general that they get more damage. What they gained with new items and changes is more survivability with defensive passive and lifesteal but the problem is they didn't loose any damage for it.
Jo0o (NA)
: As long as you're testing this shit out in norms, I see no problem. Breaking the meta is fun!
Well the problem is not really when you are trying it. The problem is when you have played it like 100 or 200 times and you want to play it in ranked because it is really strong. You can't really do it because nobody in your team know what to do with you and you may cause chaos in your own team because they don't understand what you are doing.
: > his ultimate is horrible especially against melee. I don't think it should keep pushing enemies after he used it. Maybe it should apply a huge slow on enemies going through it. His ult shuffle doesn't fit him at all too. Remove this mechanic please What? A large number of melee champions can ignore his ult because they have blinks.
I'd like to see the list especially compared to the number of melee champs.
: Azir Gameplay Update: Goals and Directions
I'll make an other post later but two things I want to say about azir: -his basic spells lack a "skill tester". Think something like draven Q or cass Q that empower her twin fang. Those skills are cool because it is a skill test between the caster and the target. Maybe his w should give him a small duration attack speed buff if he hit an enemy champion with it. -his ultimate is horrible especially against melee. I don't think it should keep pushing enemies after he used it. Maybe it should apply a huge slow on enemies going through it. His ult shuffle doesn't fit him at all too. Remove this mechanic please
: The amount of messages I receive from Riot tripled in the past 2 months. I got like 7-8 punished message. So Yeah Riot does care for "gg easy noobs" (or anything similar unsportsmanlike behavior) Fun fact though always the carried trash says gg easy, who contributed nothing to win just flame and fed hard all game. Since they do it quite often they are getting punished so feel free to flame all you want, we wont miss you if you get banned. So if you support insulting the enemy with gg easy after winning I assume you are that trash who dont deserve to play against other humans :)
It makes sense, it's the guy who did nothing and still win that think it was easy.
korg023 (EUNE)
: How would this fix him? This change would just make him useless. Only thing Pantheon can do is poke you down before all in , if you take away his poke ability he has nothing to bring you low in order to all in you.
Well if his q was a (more badass) skillshot, it would make his laning tied to skill and could be a bit less useless later with higher damage and poke.
: more marksmen justmeans more marksmen will be out of the spotlight when 3 or 4 stand above the rest and we have DPS in other classes {{champion:268}} {{champion:30}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:13}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:266}} etc. but none of them are mandatory because there's actually pros and cons to each and you need to think about comp for them unlike most marksmen
I main cassio bot and it's really strong.
: Why Has Riot Done Nothing To Draven Yet?
I think both draven and DD need some tone down. DD sustain is way too high while a good draven just deals a bit too much damage.
: I personally don't understand why spell vamp was removed outside of gunblade's omniheal while life steal gets to be on multiple big ADC items.
They were a bit lazy to work on it, I assume.
: How in the bloody hell would you make E a skillshot?
Indeed, it is a good question.
: Twitch is a lategame ADC with stealth so he can position around a team fight and ult. Rengar is a jungler who can use his ult to pick off targets around the map before team fights break out. Let's not forget the rest of their kits. Rengar's other abilities are strong. W is a cleanse, E is a high damage root, and his passive is a lot of AD. The rest of Twitch's kit is utter trash. Passive does no damage, W slow is miniscule, and E is only good if your opponents were stupid enough to let him attack enough without killing him.
It justs show that his bonus attack speed on Q and Ad on Ulti should be removed/hightly reduced for a stronger incentive for his poison with W and E (reworked as a skillshot?).
Zerenza (NA)
: Once again, it can't be a flat value, if it was her lanning phase would be even stronger against them. Then we'd see her built as an assassin to burst squishies instead of a melee carry to teamfight. She builds Lifesteal, Some Health, Damage and maybe one resistance item if she needs it and that's completely fair. A year ago, she was building full tank because her damage was way to high, and yes that was cancer, but she isn't doing it now because her damage was nerfed pretty hard since then, it's really the changes to Death's Dance and GA that make her so strong right now.
The first part make no sense at all unless I misunderstood. The fact that life steal is stupid is not only about fiora. DD is one example of life steal values being too high and especially once you build a lot of damage.
: I dont envy Riot.
I think (me the community) that you are right. Rito did everything I asked but I contradict myself everytime. They suck. Oh wait I am not one entity. It is hard to imagine that people think it is possible to please the community since the community is actually a lot of people with a lot of different opinions. They do a good job at making a good game while trying to do what "the community" want.
Zerenza (NA)
: Wrong they deal max HP true damage because if it was flat true damage, she would just burst, the fact she HAS to build full damage to burst now is proof of good design. It's not like she's building full tank and one shoting people, she's a tank shredder, the only reason she does so much to squishies is because of her Full AD build, a lot of AD=A Lot of damage. If anything lifesteal is the issue because she builds full lifesteal as well, and lifesteal has always been kind of teetering on the edge of balance. If at anytime someone who can build full lifesteal becomes to strong, the community goes absolutely insane. We should keep in mind, she hasn't been that strong until Death's Dance was buffed recently. Before she had a balanced winrate of 49% with a fair playrate because she's fun to play.
I agree so much, they should just rework life steal. I think it shouldn't be hp from damage but more a flat value (that scale per level). The current lifesteal mechanic should remain on one or 2 items as a low value unique stat. They should probably bring back spellvamp and make it work the same way so that it scale more with cdr than with damage (for spammers). Both stats shouldn't work with aoe unless an unique passive allow the mechanic. No matter what, lifesteal need a tone down in general.
: Then why would people buy IE. It would give 20% crit, and 70 AD, and nothing else. Sounds like a useless item buy.
I said remove but I meant change it with something less stupid
: "Sustained Burst Damage"
Seenan (NA)
: Anyone else excited for that 3 Doran's Ring nonsense to be gone?
They could have buffed the mana regen since you won't buy more than one now.
: If you change IE passive to mobility(which could you elaborate why? There's enough mobility in the game.Not to mention it's supposed to be ADCs damage item) they lose out of a high tier damage item. Crit is a stat the most ADCs buy and rely on.If you were to remove the passive that gives them additional crit from an item that is bought by nearly all ADCs,you have to put some portion of the crit somewhere. Not many ADCs would be ok with losing a portion of their damage,for moblity(which could be bought by BC or Trinity)
Well I said it should give bonus ms because marksmen like to kite but it could be a totaly different thing, it could be a bonus attack speed or armor pen or anything I can't think of. The idea is just to stop the ridiculous crit that they dish with just one auto (1k+ crits). The good part is that if we change the bonus crit damage on IE with bonus attack speed on crits that would make IE the big item for auto attacks reliant adc and essence reaver the big item for more casters marksmen.
: IDK. If we remove the passive on IE,this might lead to crit increase on other items,which then might end up wtih people buying multiple crit items. I for one think crit is the reasons why assassin fail to be viable in a healthy way in this game.If ADCs actually needed to put in time and effort to kill their targets,they might not push assassin out of category they're supposed to excel at.
Well the crit bonus damage would be changed not removed, it should be changed with some utility instead of damage (like a bonus ms that decay after a crit for example) that would balance it. Also I don't understand your reasoning with the others crit items.
: So how about reworking crit?
I hate the stat because it is (pseudo-)RNG but I think the real problem in balance is with IE. The bonus crit damage is just plain ridiculous with crit already increasing your aa by 100%. No need for an other stat that increase it further.
: Adc should respect the Damage of an Assassin not lifesteal all of the damage backup
yeah or maybe they should have some more utility and less damage so there is actually some gameplay when the assassin come in instead of I'm the assassin with 10 kills I roll my face on the keyboard and you are dead or I'm the marksmen with kills and lifesteal, I right click 3 times and you are dead while I sustain your damage.
: A Message from Somebody who Got banned for Cheating
Lol the number of times I was called a scripter when stomping as Xerath, now I get where it comes from. It's good that you try to remove that from the game.
: Remember when mana conservation used to be a thing?
The only champs that should be really mana gated are artillery or champs with low cd high burst.
: Nasus has completely lost his ability to carry late game.
The problem is that he is just about q farming and it is no more acceptable to be such a time ticking bomb and strong in this game. I expect from a champion to express skill. He should be updated​. For example, what I expect from nasus today would be a reduced damage for q stacks, his e would be a skillshot that he need to maintain for few seconds to apply the slow and his e to be more delayed but maybe to scale with his q farm. What I propose probably has a lot of flaws but it is just to say his kit is just too much centered around his q when nasus theme could offer much more to his gameplay.
: How to fix Fiora
What I imagined too is to change the flat regen from passive her proc into hp5 regen that do not stack. It would reduce her outstanding regen when she ult you and proc 4 or 5 times in a row her passive + her ult and life steal it is just too much regen. But that could be problem with lifesteal tho.
: So his E wouldn't proc his passive? That would completely gut him
I didn't mention it case laziness but it would procs it "for free" and actually be his only 100% reliable spell to proc his passive. A guaranteed proc for a gap closer, sounds like a trade off.
Rioter Comments
FNC Jinx (NA)
: Riot: Every time Lucian Gets out of Control
How is it a problem if a marksmen if played out of botlane ?
: @Riot When are you going to stop being so forgiving of adcs?
If it is too hard for mm to lane vs others classes that mean they will never leave bot lane dominance and we will never have lanes diversity.
: Death's Dance is complete bullshit
Dd damage reduction is ok, Life steal is not imo. Now that carries have access to more defense options, Life steal should be tuned down a lot.
: Can We Stop Using the Word "Free"
Lol we should say that X champion get his Q,W,E,R spells for free and also those free auto attacks that scale with free attacks speed. Free base hp and /level and Armor and mr. SO MUCH FREE STATS.
: Are we going to stop pretending Pantheon isn't a problem right now?
Seriously just some work on his Q spear (making it longer range skillshot ala nidalee for example) would make it both way more fun to play as and against.
: Can we give GP's barrels the Xayah/Caitlyn treatment?
Crit is fun right and so much interesting.
: #1 reason Yasuo is banned
IE crit bonus damage has to be changed
: Lifesteal is still a plauge of game balance
I wish spell vamp made a return and that both lifesteal and spellvamp were fixed value per level to remove the problems with stacking, snowballing and aoe for spellvamp. It would scale more with attack speed for auto attackers and cdr for casters.
: @Meddler you talked about making melees viable Botlane
I want to play cassiopeia bot, or adc or carry or whatever the name you want... there are too many trolls that stop me to play it even in normal its stupid.
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