Áery (NA)
: Procs off Thresh W, just saying also Relic Shield and Stoneborn pact.
thresh cannot rush ardent in any mean and if he does his W will have 24 sec cd anyway
: ADC with 335 movement speed early game ends up being faster than someone with 345 at like 10mins
Eedat (NA)
: There are other forms of counterplay outside of avoiding the damage if you get in range. By your logic {{champion:1}} has no counterplay {{champion:84}} has no counterplay. {{champion:12}} {{champion:28}} {{champion:9}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:10}} {{champion:90}} and many, many more have no counterplay since they can point and click damage/CC onto you right? Thats your logic correct? Good job proving the point of this thread through. Just a bunch of garbage points thrown together for a circlejerk.
> [{quoted}](name=Eedat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IXFtPhRJ,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2017-10-08T19:20:28.599+0000) > > By your logic {{champion:1}} has no counterplay {{champion:84}} has no counterplay. {{champion:12}} {{champion:28}} {{champion:9}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:10}} {{champion:90}} and many, many more have no counterplay since they can point and click damage/CC onto you right? Thats your logic correct? Yes all outdated af
Shyne (NA)
: Why isn't Sona played more?
> [{quoted}](name=Shyne,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AMThZxZH,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-10-08T18:37:09.059+0000) > > You can spam her heal except you can't without ending up oom
Penns (EUW)
: >outplay an ADC . >you died because you're bad https://media.tenor.com/images/cb89abffb06b3fabb69dfab551e3a0ac/tenor.gif
wtf pennssssssssssss since when u post gifs u so cool bro teach me
: It's not ADCs, it's you
> [{quoted}](name=i cant move wtf,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IXFtPhRJ,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-10-08T18:18:31.291+0000) > > Don't care if this gets downvoted. Every time I op.gg the op of a 'nerf ADC' post I see they're a silver top laner, assassin or support. > meanwhile imqt scarra and basically all high elo streamers claim this meta to be bullshit but ok xddd
Tortunga (EUW)
: No it's not. The adc get's a 'free' item as they don't have to buy it themselves. And ofc it's not a problem on any other champ; It gives AS and on hit damage, who benefits the most of those stats? A tank or a mage with 0.6 AS and 100 AA damage hits or an ADC with 2.0 AS and 600/700+ AA crits? Ardent censer is literally the 7th item slot for ADC's. Yes adc's are broken, but the item itself is as well.
no ardent gives as and magic damgae on hit and those stats are great on any carry, juggernaut skirmisher or marksmen the reason it's broken on marksmen is because marksmen are broken
Tortunga (EUW)
: Ardent Censer is still broken though, as it gives the ADC literally the stats of a free item. The 25% AS, 25 on hit damage and healing is worth like 2k gold. It's the whole reason why only hyper carries with AS steriods are seeing play; They get to their late game power so fast it's insane. But yeah even without them, ADC are broken. Their items are just to cheap for what they give, especially compared to the AP counterparts (If you can). Like {{item:3089}} vs {{item:3031}} ; Deathcap is 68% gold efficient, IE is 96% gold efficient from just pure stats. Both of the passives are somewhat equal qua damage bonus (30% extra AP scaling vs 50% extra crit damage), but as Deathcap has terrible stats on their own nobody in their right mind (except veigar) rushes it, while ADC seem fine to rush IE. Or {{item:3087}} {{item:3094}} vs {{item:3285}} . All three have somewhat the same gold efficiency without the passive (80-85%), but Shiv's/rapid cannon passive are much stronger then Luden's. You would need 2200 AP for the luden's passive to do the same damage as a Shiv's passive crit. Or {{item:3135}} vs {{item:3033}} /{{item:3036}}. All three have somewhat the same gold efficiency (around 65%), and all three gives exactly 35% penetration. But both AD items got a second passive on them while the AP ones doesn't. The only AP item that has roughly the same value compared to their ADC counterpart is {{item:3165}} vs{{item:3508}}. (If you would remove the mana from Morell as most champions with blue buff don't care about that, Essence is much better again). Every ADC item is just way to cost efficient for what damage stats they give, especially if you take in account that a lot of other items, especially caster ones, that give extra stats you don't care that much about, (like mana, mana regen, and health).
> [{quoted}](name=Tortunga,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WEvYQu5W,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-10-08T15:47:06.953+0000) > > Ardent Censer is still broken though, as it gives the ADC READ THE THREAD "it gives the adc" the adc is the problem ardent on any other champ is fine
: so you would say supports amplify it? ADC damage is OP, supports then proceed to make them more OP by giving them safety?
i'm saying that no matter what supports are just additional items to people, not only adcs but they are additional items that are only op with adcs but since adcs are busted the items of supports end up only giving their items to adcs
Penns (EUW)
: {{item:3508}} {{item:3031}} {{item:3085}} Xayah on 7.8: 9800 gold cost {{item:3508}} {{item:3031}} {{item:3087}} /{{item:3094}} Xayah on 7.9: 9400 gold cost + Shiv and rfc effects buffed and {{item:3086}} is 100 gold cheaper who wouldve thought that will happen hehe
{{item:3026}} 200 gold cheaper and gives ad now
Rioter Comments
HeresyHorus (EUNE)
: > Botlane Mordekaiser mains usually play with thresh/blitz I know that and i said it before ... No {{champion:53}} {{champion:412}} = fail {{champion:82}} anywhere. U still dont see the problem with {{champion:82}} ? {{champion:53}} {{champion:412}} make any melee work botlane thanks to their kits ... {{champion:53}} {{champion:412}} + {{champion:122}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:80}} for example is 100 times better than {{champion:53}} {{champion:412}} + {{champion:82}} .
i don't see the problems there are supports made for ranged champions like janna, and supports made for melees like thresh and blitz Mordekaiser can work with more than blitz and thresh, leona is an example except leona is garbage so i didn't list her since they played at world and archie still played bad on his own, he made bad decisions like teleporting 1v3 it's not mordekaiser's fault
HeresyHorus (EUNE)
: U know what is funny ? ... Even "weak" ADCs can still dumpster other champs in solo lanes or jungle even without abusing Crit items and from the very early game. Faker had his {{champion:61}} dumpstered by a mid {{champion:236}} _**again**_ in SKT vs EDG ... SKT won only cuz of {{champion:29}}. Also {{champion:82}} bot failed _**miserably**_ at worlds.
> [{quoted}](name=HeresyHorus,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ph84bkvT,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-10-08T10:11:17.531+0000) > > > Also {{champion:82}} bot failed _**miserably**_ at worlds. they played it terribly Botlane Mordekaiser mains usually play with thresh/blitz and build targon+go full mr pen this dude played with karma, built rylai that is garbage, and started with doran shield while he also tp'ed 1v3 botlane and died for a second time
: What if i told you ap items arent undertuned?
there is no way someone looks at rylai and luden and be "oh those items are really fine"
: Nice Meme, Tryndamere main. How do you outplay your point and click AAs? :^)
tryndamere unlike adcs is terribly cheesy and only works against low iq people
: They can't buff Merc's Tenacity or else Irelia becomes meta again
except irelia passive is non existent atm
: ADCs have the lowest base movement speed so it's part of their "weak early - strong late" scaling which I know, doesn't exist right now. But that's the idea behind it.
they don't have the lowest they have one of the lowest janna has 320 base ms unmounted kled has 280 ms
Raoul (EUW)
: Every ADC who cant abuse ranged Crit is literally a trollpick by now.
so who except lucian and kog do not build crit?
: It is, but the buff on a support isn't going to do anything.
: If at least 40% of the main page is filled with people who are tired of ADC Meta....
> [{quoted}](name=Tryce Maxwell,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oBElUha6,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-10-07T16:05:31.920+0000) > > > Speaking of mages, there used to be a time where mages were like the Rock to the Scissors. They outright destroyed your whole world, a few spells and you were done. Just flat out done. > and at that time , mages used to be shit in late game due to no cdr until riot plagued the game with cdr god bless
Rioter Comments
: The self buff is really only good in early 2v2 fights; it becomes useless later.
not only the self buff 35% attack speed+damage is retarded af on an adc
: > [{quoted}](name=GayFluffyUnicorn,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=i6WuV0Ez,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2017-10-06T23:49:34.024+0000) > > I always love the logic that because on thing is broken the other CAN NOT BE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE be broken as well. I mean, when someone tries to point to something as the primary factor, I'm going to point out what I think the real, underlying issue is. Does that mean ADCs can't be strong without supports? No. Does that mean Boards as a whole needs to stop being so head in ass about supports? Absofuckinglutely.
the boards never said supports are balanced in fact except enchanters mains everyone knows about coin and ardent however, when it comes to the adc role i can't help but see some people trying to tell me that adcs are fine when they are one dimensionally rulling the meta Lul
: Winrates dont always accuratly show champs. Blitzcrank counters janna, but most players dont have the skill level required to make it an obvious counter.
> [{quoted}](name=CrisisEchoes,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d57hOFc4,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2017-10-06T11:10:44.091+0000) > > Winrates dont always accuratly show champs when it's 54% win rate and above 10% pick rate yes it is
: I wonder why Riot hasn't fixed this item yet despite people complaining about it for about 2 months now.
Lost R (NA)
: There's already such an item. It's called Righteous Glory.
glory doesn't give movement speed to allies
Rioter Comments
: Anyone else a big fan of seeing Twitch R and melt entire teams in worlds
: This is what happens when people let tanks get strong, and in accord to the people's wishes and complaint about Tanks being weak, we now have Seju, maokai and cho leading the charge by facetanking everything and a little extra. Or a ton extra.
cho has 50% win rate maokai has 50% win rate sejuani is not the standard balance of all tanks atm
Rexxiee (NA)
: Azir is kind of completely broken atm
> [{quoted}](name=Rexxiee,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eyjtJRo9,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-10-05T21:01:19.978+0000) > > > Nerfs when? next patch according to meddler you're welcome
Rioter Comments
Poske (EUNE)
: Mordekaiser is far from being ever tier 5 pick He becomes tier 2 pick when paired with blitz tier 6 with anything else
you do realise EUW morde mains playing him bot in high elo have over 70% win rate on him on hundreds of games? how is that EVEN CLOSE to be tier 2?
Penns (EUW)
: do you prefer ranged assassins that are also tanks {{item:3190}} {{item:3504}} {{item:3107}} {{item:3109}} {{item:3072}} {{summoner:3}} or just assassins? hehe
why are you putting ardent censer in the explination of adcs being tanks?
Rioter Comments
: assassins meta made tank meta, tank meta made assassins meta, tank meta+assassin meta made peel supports meta
: Why is this downvoted? This is true as it gets. Especially if you pick {{champion:202}} or {{champion:236}} .
: Rejoice Rakan players. Rakan will have the highest base AD next patch
Maokai has, and will still have the highest base ad in the game at lvl 1
: > [{quoted}](name=MagÊ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aj2uZEP4,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-10-05T10:23:56.400+0000) > > Mordekaiser Q cast time is fixed and cannot be improved by attack speed Since when they made such change? I've looked in the wikia and in Surrender at 20 and there is nothing.
since if you play morde you realise his Q cannot be improved by attack speed and the bar of cast time when you hit Q is always the same
: Champions that should get attack speed buffs
> [{quoted}](name=YumaS2Astral,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aj2uZEP4,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-10-05T07:33:50.477+0000) > > 1) {{champion:82}} (due to way this Q works, if you have more AS, you get to hit his Q faster, which is why some people run AS runes on him) > you should thank riot then, since they removed a noobtrap Mordekaiser Q cast time is fixed and cannot be improved by attack speed and what people take on morde is MR pen+armor/hp per lvl+AP on both quints and glyphs
Rioter Comments
Jie Chen (NA)
: Bot lane meta is probably the worst it has been in years.
weren't you playing in duo with 41noob in season 4? well in season 4 it was the same meta
: His base HP went up by 5 at level 1, and about 60 at level 18. Now again, look at the HP other champions have now. It also doesn't make sense why he only has 25 armor now, while being made of armor, AND also being a juggernaut. Squishy supports and ADCs all have more armor than a dude in armor. I also didn't see anyone losing MR on the PBE either, or at least those weren't documented.
his hp went up by 90 at lvl 18 his base hp went by 5 because you don't care about it mordekaiser has the strongest 2v2 in the game, he's the only champion that can dish out more than 800 damage in a fight at lvl 3 and half of that in AOE let alone that marksmen will deal less damage to him while he will deal more damage to them with the minus 4 mr that was repeated a lot of time by rioters in dev corner, and that leads to a more powerful mordekaiser 95 more hp at lvl 18 is not nothing on a champion like morde, the champ by default that shields constantly (depending on his hp) heals and keep dealing damage you need to understand that +95 hp IS NOT THE SAME thing on morde than on alistar who doesn't give a fuck about that and 95 more hp + 5 more armor in early game is definitly as good as other champions, especially since that going from 20 to 25 armor is not the same than going from 25 to 30 armor (the later is worse damage reduction wise)
: Look at his "buffs" compared to every other champ right now. Runes gave us +12 armor, but Morde is only getting +5 now
what rubick (master tier morde main) told me morde is getting 3 stat buffs while other champs are getting 2 stat buffs he's getting hp/lvl and base hp buff, however since he plays bot they decided to buff his base armor while reducing a bit the buff he got from hp also, hp is way stronger on morde than any other champion in the game due to his shield scaling of hp and that without forgetting that everyone is getting -4 mr which means he will deal more damage
: What about Aatrox and Irelia who are blatantly left out of the bruisers +5/+10 buffs? Keep in mind, while Aatrox was buffed, he's still not even close to good at all.
irelia got buffed aatrox is played in high elo by toplane mains like Gob GG and they think he's good now http://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=gob+gg and he's got 10 victories 2 defeats since the buff For now
: I believe GP will get something for his passive (which has a Bonus AD ratio), but not his Q (which has a Total AD ratio). The reason Total AD ratios aren't getting the base damage bump while Bonus AD ratios are is that champions are being gifted some Base AD alongside runes (to offset some of the reduction from the loss of old runes), which will work toward their Total AD ratios naturally, but not their Bonus AD ratios.
: I love how people say we lack proper AP items for Morde to really be a Juggernaut
mordekaiser should be a juggernaut played bot lane after VGU, while not having a toxic solo lane
: Yeah they shouldn't have. Look what happened to Corki in pro play as soon as he got some changes.
: Lee Sin is getting overbuffed again on pbe...
No reasons Xd its not like his ult has 200% ad ratio which is a different ratio from wukong Board at its finest
: {{champion:101}} "550 is long ranged? Amateur"
lmao Let's see who's meta atm Twitch Kog Trist cait 550 range xd only one with 550 range is vayne that has 20% pick rate
: > [{quoted}](name=MagÊ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZypHeI2T,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2017-10-04T08:52:08.276+0000) > > when they could kill you at lvl 3 > kek except they still can today 8) a lulu can just e q auto you, proc thunderlords, and apply ignite or something
thunderlord is not taken on lulu you didn't need thunderlord in s2 lulu did way more damage on AA Q and E (that dealt a base of 280 damage at max rank) Nunu E had retarded base damage and slowed AS making an adc unable to trade with him taric isn't a damage threat anymore, all he does is stunning and that's it. Old taric bursted you down and then punched the shit out of you with old passive+AD steroid on ult Alistar also did more damage on his base spell+passive+ult giving free ad Sona could remove 30% of your hp with a bolt of Q Soraka was a meme and janna janna shield gave 20 ad at lvl 1 and wasn't removed if shield got destroyed, making any adc unable to trade with her overall, adcs also used to have lifesteal quints that were broken instead of ad+attack speed and that made support role way funnier than shield/heal bot that is nowday so don't try to manipulate people with the support role, just because they bought wards doesn't mean they were worse than now
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