Update: the change went through on pbe and now it works just like most of the other dashes. Still the same on live though, doesn't look like riot listed this anywhere

Umm fizz q has the automatic auto as well so I don't know what your point is. If you're using fizz q or qiyana e to escape you're going to enter a mc right after which will cancel the auto command. All this does is make her better to play for people with high ping like me.

Qiyana doesn't have a automatic auto attack after casting e if she's in range. Fizz q has it as well as a lot of the other assassins dash abilities so it's pretty weird.

Premades screw over normal matchmaking.

> [{quoted}](name=RoG Seraph,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=lKETvyVE,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-12-08T20:55:53.398+0000) > > Teaching them right from wrong and how to be respectful. Kids these days are disrespectful as fuck because their shitty parents let them get away with anything they wanted. I watched a girl yesterday that couldn't be any more than 12 or 13 tell her mom to fuck off. > > And as far as in game children I either have to put up with their crying, trolling, or spamming all chat about fucking my mom and shit. Eh the in game thing isn't really a parenting thing imo, I think it's more of a internet thing. I've known people that act like angels when their parents are around but as soon as they're not around they become completely different people. Also kids can be influenced by other people, not just their parents. But yeah a lot of parents should put in a lot more effort. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}

> [{quoted}](name=The Real Mugatu,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Ramt9mki,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-12-08T00:21:50.462+0000) > > I haven't been playing this week but are champs (namely {{champion:84}} and {{champion:55}} ) actively building both items? > > Theoretically it comes at a decent cost to them (not being able to buy more ap). I mean DD costs 3.5k gold, why go dd when dcap is 100 gold away with a way stronger power spike. Doesn't even look either of them are building gunblade and dd together unironically from statistics.

> [{quoted}](name=Tomat0H3ad,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NwaBE8WO,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2018-12-06T12:04:03.479+0000) > > They don’t. Then thI complain when Burst mages are bursting them down. I mean, least burst mages have counterplay. When Veig uses his combo, he’s open for 7 seconds. Someone can start a group fight knowing that. Burst mages don’t have any dmg out of their main combo. Assassins tho, like Talon. No skill needed, low CD, snowbally, high af mobility, and escape, an engage, a forgiving ultimate, and not to mention the abi,it’s to build pure AD, unlike mages who need to build AP and mana. A lot of mages literally only build one mana item, and if it's more then one, it's usually a roa seraph users lol. Things like Ahri only build ludens and Zoe even though she builds lich bane, you could remove the mana from it and it wouldn't make a difference to her.

> [{quoted}](name=II Shiro II,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Y9UyER3H,comment-id=007a0000000000010000,timestamp=2018-12-02T05:57:56.564+0000) > > You actually confirmed that I'm being trolled. There is no way someone who is Silver 5 and only plays ARAM would tell me 'girls only play casual games' is a tired stereotype. I'm sorry you guys got me. I admit this was a good prank. Idk what you're going on about, rank isn't relevant to anything on this section of the boards. Anyway he was correct to an extent since it is true that woman usually aren't as devoted competitively in games. Which isn't a bad thing, could just mean they have lives, who knows. Though op did mess up by generalizing.

> [{quoted}](name=Raoul,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=rLxavEXW,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2018-12-01T14:13:10.024+0000) > > Wow, this is a bunch of BS; but hey, the LoL community is really into sexualising women, so you have your own little echo chamber here to tell you that its totaly ok to make women in gaming nothing but hyper sexualised barbie dolls. > > And guess what, the same squad will come and downvote me, but I dont care. Ironically the people complaining about this are the ones claiming the characters are nothing more then sexualized barbie dolls. Literally this was never an issue up until recent years were the idea of wamen being too sexualized in video games became a noted a thing. Heck who even are the HYPER SEXUALIZED girls in lol other than {{champion:21}} {{champion:28}}

> [{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Y9UyER3H,comment-id=0050,timestamp=2018-12-01T12:11:14.830+0000) > > Obviously I agree that unnecessary sexualization should be removed, because it doesn't thematically fit some characters, but I don't really get the complaints on some champions mentioned, it just look like you want to cover as much as skin as possible even when the current design are not really harmful in female representation > > Like, Caitlyn is not really depicted as a cop in modern sense (The Officer skin line is what Cait and Vi would be if they were truly traditional cops in modern universe - and yes, those skins are clearly oversexualized on purpose - ), she has more of a weird late'800 british-like renegade law enforcer vibe that I think the current design actually nail. Some small details could be modified here and there, like adding shoulder straps to hep support her dress, but overall she is fine (p.S. and Headhunter Caitlyn is superior to Pulsefire, imho) > I don't like the redesign concept posted here with the mantle and the leather trousers, as it honestly make it waaay to visually similar to someone like Vayne that has a different character/fantasy as the night(vampire) hunter > > Taliking about Ashe, her trope is not the one of a DnD ranger, so she shouldn't dress like one, that's pretty simple. The concept art is fantstic though, so that traditional ashe could really be used for something like a traveler/wanderer/secret mission skin line, where she try to hide more her identity by covering herself in a fur coat to go unnoticed while stopping in some tavern. > > Nidalee is totally fine as she is, she shouldn't dress like Neeko because she has a way more wild and aggressive personality and clothes are a visual way to just refelct that character in game > For her and Janna, it looks like you are concerned more about clear jokes (dance/lines) than their current canon representations as characters...and, for istance, I think that while Janna current art is not offensive, something in between current model and the conceptproposed by you would be even better than the current one (like if yoou take out the sleeves and shorten the cloth "tails" that starts from her hip she would be perfect because she would just be, well...cooler) > > I could go on (like, how the hell can Syndra being considered oversexualized and not just a traditional evil mage trope?), but I honestly feels like the very bad offenders are way less than most people complain about, not counting the characters that have certain desgin on purpose like Evelyn and Kata and they are very well known: > - Miss Fortune, the biggest offender > - Ahri, not much because of her visual design, but just because it fits too much with the stereotypes on asian loli with the charm thing going > - Leblanc, even though the problem is not how she is portrayed as character but actual minor visual details > - Zyra, which is imho too much of a copycat of Batman's Poison Ivy and that is unnecessary for the character > - Elise, that honestly overlap with Eve from a visual point of view and you didn't strangely mention > > Maybe Orianna or Akali could be added even though they do not seem to offend anyone Ori is a definite no, though I don't understand the Ahri line, Ahri isn't even a loli so how would anyone ever eden correlate her with whatever Asian loli stereotype you're talking about. Even with the charm I never had the idea of a loli coming to my head, can you explain what you meant a bit more? And I mean that out of curiosity.

Majority of this comment section just serves as more proof to not try to take the boards seriously.

I mean, whenever I go to the boards it forces me to the na boards, I figured that this was just the global thing, didn't even know separate boards for regions on the boards even existed.

> [{quoted}](name=NemeBro,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WFdMXn8H,comment-id=0003000000020000,timestamp=2018-01-21T06:45:53.665+0000) > > Ahri deals more damage in the average game than Vayne does, and a considerably larger portion of her damage is true damage, statistically speaking. And that's only because ahri has more room to do damage and poke with her spells one of which is aoe. Vaynes damage out shines ahris by miles once she has items.

> [{quoted}](name=The Minion hunt,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WFdMXn8H,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-01-21T01:20:41.455+0000) > > many champs deal much more true damage then vayne btw, Cho, Camille, Zoe, Ahri. Ahri. Lol...

Could just be your mom :^. Yeah I haven't heard this, I can't say it never happened but maybe you could be imagining things, I feel like other people would've already mentioned it on reddit or something. Sounds interesting though

> [{quoted}](name=Vexiconjz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oW9Fo5t3,comment-id=000c0000,timestamp=2018-01-16T23:11:31.037+0000) > > Is there no place for people who play for fun and dont fixate on HOW u need to place urself in this situation and that... what to do when and where... i mean its a game after all its not chess im not trying to outsmart my enemies with great placement and exact builds meant to counter- Nonono... i just want to have some goddamn fun and i dont mind being demolished once in awhile but its at the point where its 24/7 rn... and i dont imply that i wanna play with braindead people nor do i wanna play as a zombie but things could be abit more casual imo... Yeah lol is a game, a competitive game. You know how when you play chess but are still thinking about where to move your peices even if it's a for fun match? That's lol. You outplay your opponents and add pressure to the map in lol to win. Like I said earlier, people go to normals to practice new Champs and stuff, that doesn't mean that a plat player is now going to start playing like he's bronze. I mentioned rotating game modes and aram earlier, because those are more casual. And they're pretty fun which is why I recommended trying them. Because match making can't do anything if you don't want to try to get better or tryhard. If not the rotating modes and aram, I don't know what to tell you other than try new games and see how they are, I like to play overwatch when I'm tired of lol. Who knows, maybe if you play a few more games, your MMR Might go down and you could find easier opponents

Eh, not really, you're fighting other unranked players along with low silver/bronze, maybe you just make a lot of mistakes or are caught out of position or not warding correctly. You're not being matched against plats/diamond or something. Maybe you should try to go into games more confident instead of saying you just suck or something. I think you made a mistake of playing ranked, the season just started, I doubt matchmaking for ranked would be good this early. Matchmaking can't really control it your opponent will try hard or not. Also some people practice or try new Champs in normals too. Lol is a competitive game, so no figure it'd be this way. You should try playing arams or the rotating game modes, I didn't play on summoners rift pretty much the whole time poro king and snow urf was up, aram is also surprisingly fun too despite being random imo. Also try playing solo lanes like mid or top, adc and support is a duo lane, which takes teamwork

> [{quoted}](name=The Soulforged,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=6UiuiqqL,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-01-15T17:52:57.499+0000) > > On that note, can we also slightly increase cd in between dashes? Will make her feel a bit more manageable to play against and can lead to more buffs. No. Please don't ruin the ability that makes ahri fun to play or pick into other mages. I can imagine her dash being like early game Katarina. Her ult doesn't need any touching

Try walking out of Lane 0/5 and see how much you can do as Katarina/akali.

Silver/bronze players flame teammates for feeding all the time. In my last game as ahri, /all chat was just people from the enemy saying "report mid". My fiora game too... Some akali games as well.. Happens in a lot of games that somebody stomps Lane and this is just in normals, the for fun mode. It didn't happen as much when My normal MMR was matching me with golds a few patches ago

> [{quoted}](name=Trollmanship,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fyGAKzVu,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2018-01-15T11:38:08.924+0000) > > Yo guys, I don't think the problem is "wtf syndra is so weak"... no, the problem is, like the OP stated in the title of the thread, _**damage in this game is too fucking high.**_ > > Do people honestly enjoy a game where the first person to get an advantage in lane is able to simply one-shot their opponent for the rest of the game? How do you fix it though? Me killing my laner or being killed means they now have gold advantage and level advantage if they shoved in the wave. Meaning I lose if it's a state check battle. It's not enjoyable but that's how the game is, I don't see how they can fix it without making major changes to lol. But I'm not creative so eh.

> [{quoted}](name=sixdogman,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UTA3hAXP,comment-id=00110003000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-10T06:00:39.154+0000) > > No, you took someone to 50-25% of their health. > > No you don't, because everyone is doing less damage, so unless your position is terrible or you failed to track enemies cc you don't die either. > > Except that when the ADC is at 25% HP they can't get in range to use their BT without dying. Or if they have a healing support it took the impact of two champions (ADC and support) to match your own. > > No it doesn't, their damage patterns are allowed to be faster if they aren't 100-0ing people. The assassins CD also go down so that it takes two rotations to kill someone. Assassins use their natural mobility to get in and out and knowing when to go in and when to go out shows mastery of assassin champions, and knowing how low you are allowed to be around an assassin gives the other side an expression of skill as well. Both sides get to play in this scenario, as opposed to assassins 100-0 people where only one side gets to play. > > ????? She built sunfire gunblade into full tank. She couldn't make good use of iceborn's mana, so she's an exception as she's the only manaless assassin and couldn't use the overtuned item. > > lol. Try again yourself, you have no idea the history of this game. Why would you play an assasin when it takes 2 rotations to kill an adc. Literally makes no sense, they just group and now you can't do anything because you can't kill anybody if you jump in and you'll instead just die. Playing a damage dealing class only to not have enough damage to kill someone sounds dumb.

> [{quoted}](name=Hydroxlic,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=qu8EBZ7h,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-01-09T01:04:38.887+0000) > > The best part of all this is when people claim he's "reformed" I decided to click his stream to see if he was and first thing out of his mouth is "Maybe if this Annie turned off her monitor she would play better". To me this isn't really reformed, sure so far he isn't running it down mid like before but so far this is just turning a 180. It's only a matter of time before hes back to his usual self. > > Edit: And after ever kill he says "fucking bitch" really stellar reforming there. To be fair, these streamers can say whatever they want as long as they're not typing in chat. Imaqtpie calls teammate monkeys sometimes but not in chat, and he's not toxic.

Eh I just suck at playing top and split pushing, unless I'm playing tanky Champs. Maybe I should just play meta top laners. My normal mmr has bombed ever since I decided to play top, back to mid until I get matched with mostly golds it is.

Second season is better, I though the first season was Meh

> [{quoted}](name=Poske,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=l5oe5Xcg,comment-id=000c000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-05T18:42:00.381+0000) > > I would suggest kassadin and annie against her Kassadin/Jayce/malzahar/fizz Are all good. Malzahar is a bit tricky since she Cann still kill you pre 6. Annie works only if you're really holding on to that stun which requires you to not use spells

I mean, the new runes were practically designed for her, everything in domination and precision has good synergy. Other than that, her skill damage remained the same, all that changed was the runes. Wouldn't be surprised if she was nerfed again soon since she is under riots watch

> [{quoted}](name=DoktorKaiser,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oBUc7I5Y,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2018-01-04T11:32:04.389+0000) > > All you said is true and then in the end wtf. Assassins are probably the most broken class in the game right now, all of them - Zed, Talon, Kata, Fizz, Akali, Diana are beyond fucking broken, not saying that anything else you said isn't true, everyone has the assassin damage right now, but assassins themselves always have super mobility and low resource cost, if any at all, making them impossible to deal with especially if you are playing a mage. I'm pretty sure assasins winning against immobile mages like karthus or something is working as intended. I don't think they're broken, all they do is damage. Akali and other assasins don't have a use if they're behind other than cleaning up a fight if enemies are very low. I don't get too worried when I'm behind as ahri in comparison to when I'm behind as Katarina because I can try to land good charms for my team even if I can't one shot anybody.

> [{quoted}](name=OilegibtKoile,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=YilqLYkZ,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-12-22T23:01:26.526+0000) > > "SHEN ULT?????????????" is my favourite xD Yeah when someone gets baited into a 1v5 and die to blame our shen top for not ulting when they were dead anyway

> [{quoted}](name=TheFallenShaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mPFKT6q7,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-12-23T09:13:26.773+0000) > > He out damaged your team, bc your team and you are low skill. You can dodge everything Orrn does, save his ult. Which usually isnt worth a flash. learn to dodge. > > > By dodge I mean attacks not game. Being yall let a slow low range champion out damage you and your team, I had to make sure that was clear. You can litterly just walk away from him, side step/ run behind his w. He's truely a free kill early and free kill to anyone who builds lord dom, and bork later. Learn item build counters. You will never get better using the cookie cutter builds off champion gg, because you don't understand why they are built when they are built. And correction on the counter build. just noticed him starting thornmail late. {{item:3153}} {{item:3036}} {{item:3111}} {{item:1053}} + what ever gold is left Though that should be plenty esp if you have doron's blade left over for the added healing. Build the second vamp secptor into hydra or deaths dance. Also phanton dancer will actually reduce the damage his thorn mail inflicts on you, same with the treds though if your illioa then a simple deathsdance and lord D should be enough with your cleaver. Ornn doing a lot of damage doesn't mean that everyone on the team just sucks. Also it's not really a good idea to go around calling people low skill.

I only hate the RNG in her spell theif system. Some games you'll Lane against her and she'll pull simple things like flash and cleanse, other games she'll start pulling gunblade, teleport and redemption/heal.

I do feel bad whenever I dodge in arurf when my teammate got fizz. I don't enjoy when people dodge either, or someone gets syndra or something that people want to play and reroll instantly. AR does piss me off but I've been pretty lucky and got my main a lot with (lethality) caitlyn. But I'm sure some people get trash every match.

Sona is banned since rito said she was too strong in urf. Which is annoying because I'm seeing things like syndra and duskblade twitch anyway, would be fun to at least play sona and be OP.

Her laning phase is okay, I think you can play around her daggers if you respect that she can "extend" the hit box. Honestly, it's when she's ahead or it's hit late game that she lacks counterplay. If I'm fed gunblade>e>r>thunderlords is enough for the kill. She has counterplay if she's not too ahead but she had ways to cover up your options like ewqre, you'd try to walk out of her ult but end up walking on a dagger proc or try to avoid it and spend more time taking Her ults damage. Unless you flash anyway.

Release ornn was fine imo. Then he got his W buffed and started doing damage... I was actually having a bit of trouble understanding why my top laner and jungler were having their hp bars chunked by him when he had no damage items. I do dislike this whole thing of tanks having very high base damages.

Yep, my net was always consistent until the B patch, I've been seeing lots of lag spikes and even fps drops. But it is hard to tell how much of the ping issues could be on riots side.

I went on a winning streak (I was fed I'm all the games) quite a while back and was always at a 45-50% kp. Then idk what happened, I start seeing play and diamonds in my games and pretty much all my stats go down. Maybe if I lose more game I'll go back to playing with only silver/bronze. I even started playing aram because I don't want to Lane against more people with 800k points on their main when I first time a champ or something.

> [{quoted}](name=Frontline Fury,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IlypZOyn,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-12-09T05:28:12.353+0000) > > «Not high enough elo» meanwhile nobody above diamond 5 ever loses to akali because she’s a predictable one trick pony that relies entirely on matchup and stats to stay in the game. > > She’s a garbage champion above plat elo. Very easy to counter. > > Just checked your rank. Why is a gold V player talking about high rank? You’re practically just a silver player with a shiny ego, its not like you actually know what high elo looks like. http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=mlgbbłade Seems to pull off akali past diamond 5. Also your comment didn't really do anything except make you look like a douche.

Why even build it when you can tank turret shots if you were planning on being tanky anyway. Ohm looks like it's just a a waste when the active isn't needed to tower dive

> [{quoted}](name=GayFluffyUnicorn,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XfME8t4P,comment-id=000400000001,timestamp=2017-12-07T17:23:31.510+0000) > > kat is the most broken solo Q champ for an entire season. > And all she gets is a love tap to her E Maybe they could lower her damage and make it scale, but that dumb since she wants to get fed early. I don't really have any idea, though for one, it'd be nice if mid and low elo players stopped wal on her daggers in Lane

> [{quoted}](name=Ahris,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=zLsOG6dK,comment-id=002b,timestamp=2017-12-06T17:29:05.684+0000) > > Can you guys buff Ahri? She feels so trash to play compared to other midlaners. > > Or revert rework or to rework her W. > > And for ADC, when are they going to receive a meaningful nerf and not just supports getting hit everytime? Adc's item is way too cheap for having the strongest late and also a great early and mid game. > > Right clicking role should NEVER become the greatest source of damage in any game. This is free damage we are speaking. Potential to do it from 800 range with rapid fire every 2-3 seconds? Ahri was nerfed for having damage on a 350 range ability which is a much weaker and less reliable auto. > > When is this favortism going to go away? She was already indirectly buffed in the runes update. Very strong poke with aery/comet and scorch. Average winrate and fair play style + damage, I'm pretty sure rito feels she's in a pretty good spot. If you hate being out damaged or something... Just play an actual ap assasin like Kat or fizz and not some hybrid and delete people with much stronger rotations.

> [{quoted}](name=Paleo Electro,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aUg3aA8f,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-06T08:12:53.278+0000) > > I'm not disagreeing with you on the importance of movement speed. Nor do I disagree that boots are a must buy on EVERY champ except Cassio....... > > ......and MF. > > I'm not saying buying boots on her is a bad thing, it's just not necessary. Her W allows her to get back the full amount of movespeed it gives after she takes damage. Yes, it's not that great in kiting, but even with boots, MF sucks at kiting. She simply isn't built for it. She's built to chase down opponents, and burst them down, and her W helps with exactly that. Add in the items she normally builds (Yomuu's and Cleaver), and she's nearly impossible to out run unless you're Hecarim or Yi.......and that's without boots. > > Essentially, she has built in Mobi boots. Does it take a little while for her to get to those Mobi boots? Yes, but with just a rank 1 W, she has a better movement speed bonus than Swifty Boots. > > And I'm not the only one who doesn't buy boots on her. You could buy armour or Mr boots... Which give ms plus useful passives... For 1100 gold. I don't know which streamer is giving this info this time but unless it's late game and you just want to sell your boots.... Getting Mr, armour or swift boots doesn't seem like the worst idea when they let you negate some armour or magic pen.

> [{quoted}](name=Blackstone01,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sxuxp7oH,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-05T02:05:49.576+0000) > > It's 46.39% in plat and above. It's also the first patch where everybody and their mother bans them out, including normals, so nobody really knows how to play as or against them. Laning against Zoe is usually a straight forward experience, really the only thing about Zoe I don't like is the W RNG either giving her weak summoners or very strong actives/summoners (teleport, gunblade, redemption/heal), things like flash and barrier are easy to play around.

> [{quoted}](name=Nasuuna,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dpLMJlWl,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2017-12-05T00:19:39.452+0000) > > if they are rank 7 with like 35k mastery, they probably know what they are doing > > > > rank 5-6 (before they made it cost retarded amounts) with 80k mastery, I'd just ban it away from them Yeah but I'm sure not everyone bothered to upgrade the mastery at that time, I have random mastery 6 tokens that I didn't use before they did the Be merging nonsense and still haven't.

> [{quoted}](name=Ahris,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AaacEkfA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-11-17T04:02:24.624+0000) > > {{champion:103}} > > Many play her but saw no one who mastered her. Ahri Is cool and all, but not top 10 worthy.

I type /mute all every time I play a new champ. Idk why, everytime I first time a role or champ I get flamed, doesn't matter if I go 600/0 or 0/2000

> [{quoted}](name=4NoxiousHours,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Egxmb1Hc,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-11-15T21:33:37.219+0000) > > Hey I don't blame ya, I think the Noob term is more of a old gamers thing than new ones. Since there are much more new terms to annoy someone in game. Noob is still used in literally every online game a play. It's not a old gamers thing. It's used along with new terms.

I don't like playing adc or support because I feel like I don't have as much control because it's played with another person, which means lots of miss communications and just bot Lane being unable to shut up after dying once. I like adc Champs and support champs to but I don't like duo laning. Pretty much can't enjoy those roles unless it's a premade.