Emo Twink (OCE)
: Can Yasuo Get Some Removals like Irelia/Akali?
I still think the reason of all the bad talk about {{champion:157}} is because of his "E" SWEEPING BLADE YASUO "E" SWEEPING BLADE - [Give It Clarity](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/0798wIlN-yasuo-e-sweeping-blade-give-it-clarity) I dont play this game anymore but every time i think about giving it a chance again i remember this one champ and i open the minesweeper instead... [This](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/6g5ah6/i_want_to_explain_to_reddit_why_people_dont_like/) was submitted 1 year ago by Bkzkilla2 I will quote some lines: He said this about his Pasive: "His double the crit from item passive. I'm sorry straight bullshit this allows Yasuo to reach his power spike with two items. DOES NO ELSE REALIZE CRIT ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL DAMAGES IN THE GAME, the same mechanic that Riot makes sure adc's can not get till late game because of just how strong it is should not be able to just be given away for free." "This is a huge problem because even if you shut him down in lane it doesn't matter he just needs 2 items and he is just a strong as most champions with 3 or 4." "It makes you feel so bad to realize wow I shut him down and made him fall so far behind but since he gets double crit and 50% armor shred (That's right 50% armor shred from his ult for 15 seconds that's more than adc's get from Last Whisper items.) from he ult he will still do crazy damage. This begs the question what is even the point of shutting him down if it doesn't do anything? Ever other hyper carry champ is gated by needing a huge amount of gold and multiple items (Vayne, Kog, Twitch, Jax, Fiora etc) but not Yasuo he's get a free shortcut like were playing CandyLand over here because of passive that simple breaks item balance in the game." This about his Q: "I'm going to be honest here this ability isn't really an issue." About his W Windwal: "If this is thrown down in a teamfight the other team can not do anything." "...this ability stop's champions ultimate's (were talking champions whose kit's are balanced around there ult get fucked by one ability people like Rumble(yeah it stop's his ult) is a perfect example, sej ult, varus ult etc etc) just about anything from going through it, this ability single handily negates the adc existing in the game,..." "Yasuo's Windwall takes away whole champions kit's,..." His E Sweeping Blade: "So minions are in every lane where Yasuo is played and this ability allows Yasuo to just dash around like Disney on Ice when they are present. 6 minions show up congrats Yasuo now has 6 dash's." "This ability is a pain in the ass because there is also no clarity on it. You can't see the little cool down circle on the minion's only he can. How does Riot expect anyone let alone low elo players to remember which minions he dashed to first and keep 6 mental timers going, while having to look at the mini map and last hitting etc." "But wait there's more here each dash gives more damage to the next one, and guess where people try to stand behind in lane that's right there minions (who would have guessed this /s) So now it does even more to you because on his way to hit you with that drive by E it's like he picked up hollow point rounds just getting a little more free damage on you. Oh and the free passive shield gets to charge up every time he E's because he's moving so this is even more of hidden benefit to the ability." And His Ultimate Last Breath: "So again this ultimate has some good balance but one really stupid extra passive. This ultimate is gated by needing a knockup, so he either needs to stack his Q 3 times or somebody on his team needs to knock them up." "What isn't ok is the passive armor shred for 15 seconds after using it." Have a nice day
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: Riot's philosophy finally turned the game into dogshit after so much years
I enjoyed season 5 and 6. After season 7 this game became, some kind of adiction becouse of the amout of time i wasted playing it... and other reasons... But this game is runing for its doom at full speed, so one day there will be no riot games anymore and will not existe any league of leagens to play anymore AND I WILL BE FREE!!!! FREE!{{sticker:vlad-salute}}
: I expected a Nico Nico meme. http://pm1.narvii.com/6288/5e3e3073467a8c9bffaf235be186d67c0cceb659_00.jpg You disappoint me.
sry... {{sticker:sg-soraka}}
Manxxom (NA)
: Who will win
It's all about the skill
: Xayah and rakan seem to be beyond that. I always think they would much rather go on a long moonlit walk and then sit on a cliff overlooking an ocean and just sitting there in eachothers arms and waiting for the sun to rise as the colors it brings slowly spread across the land and sea.
Before or after the ** ?
Manxxom (NA)
: She is changing a part of her to copy the frog... her passive basically She can even become the kermit if she wanted to
I think it is a very usefull passive.
Terozu (NA)
: She is a minor!!!
She have an elastic throat... ...to sing! {{sticker:sg-ahri-2}}
: Don't you need a frog for her to get that?
Normally, it's skill based.
Rioter Comments
: Garen shouldn't be allowed to be this strong
> He's so overbearing with his silence + grasp proc. > If Garen goes ignite he has an insane amount of kill pressure more so than the average top laner that takes ignite because of Garen's R. I started to play this game before the juggernaut update. Before that update Garen was STRONG and he could do everything u say he is doing now. > With a kit a simple as his when he's this strong it isn't healthy. If its simple u need to conter play him. Mobility destroys him.
: If the topic is Yasuo and the downvotes are many, that just means I'm right. I do agree with the general consensus on towers and BE tho. BE is just designed to make you want to cash in that sweet instant gratification with loot boxes.
> If the topic is Yasuo and the downvotes are many, that just means I'm right. I had to log in to UPVOTE this thing. It makes no sense, It's retarded as hell. But its so funny!! {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
: I'll tell you why Wukong is getting nerfed again and why Yasusu is getting a major Buff
> but while doing so, they're buffing their favorite flashy champs which they worked "so hard on over the years". They worked and did a realy bad job. Yasuo its a failure of a champion (like Zoe and Kalista) . And they did not do nothing to making him fit in the game in a balanced state. They did a very incompetent job on Yasuo. Yasuo was added in 2013 and they did not bothered on making any champion modification. Even if it helps Yasuo players and opponents alike. I look at his [Patch History](http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Yasuo/History) and all i see is "BUG FIX" + "stat increase", this don't mean the champion is strong, it just means the champion have problems... it's shameful. Riot behaves like a big Yasuo funboy, so that ends up explaining a lot.
: So does this goes to show that favouritism exists?
Its Yasuo! This game is called the League of Yasuo Yasuo, Zoe, etc all those champions designed to be cancer and kill the enjoyment of the game. All designed by the same ~~idiot~~ genius.
Rioter Comments
: Something I noticed about Kayle's lore that I hope they actually apply to the update:
Pool Party Skin. Kayle in a bikini. Call her sister too...
Galiö (NA)
: I agree with current iteration of Nidalee. Previous she was more complex but you could have been very successful just throwing spears 24/7 lol. Either way I was just putting out a little of my thoughts since I sent speak of non Galio things too too often
{{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
Galiö (NA)
: Zoe isnt that complicated. You hit Q or you hit E then Q or you R to get an easier E off and then Q. I mean that's all a lil more complicated then just throwing a spear over a wall a few times until you kill someone but its similar (not the same) but similar.
In my opinion {{champion:142}} is much more straight forward and simpler to understand and use than {{champion:76}} .
Galiö (NA)
: A lot of Zoe complaints and comparing to Nidalee
{{champion:76}} was considered toxic because she could one shot (100 - 0) with one skill shot with a big range, with 100% safety and with no counter play. But you can't compare {{champion:76}} and {{champion:142}} . You cant use the same solutions that worked on {{champion:76}} to fix {{champion:142}} {{champion:76}} is a much more complex champion and was balanced improving some other qualities of her game while tuning down her one shot potential. {{champion:142}} was made with a kit 100% centered on landin her "q" with multiple combos and variations with the only objective of landing her "q" and score a kill, nothing more. She was created with a toxic design from scratch and she will become another {{champion:429}} type of champion; too strong (broken) or unplayable.
Anin777 (EUW)
: Dodge, you say? : https://clips.twitch.tv/EnchantingDullYamKappaClaus
> I bet you thought I needed to land my abilities to kill you The line said by the {{champion:142}} player in the end of the video is hilarious. {{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}}
Dasdi96 (NA)
: Can riot admit that zoe was a complete fucking failure of a champion?
They had a problem balancing {{champion:76}} because she was toxic and one shoted ppl with one skill shot... and they created {{champion:142}} with THE SAME PROBLEM {{champion:76}} had. {{champion:142}} is not a failure. She is the living proof Riot games forgets what is good and what is bad for the game. They fix things just to implement the same problem again after some time. They make the same mistakes over and over again and they never learn. So, they fixed {{champion:142}}. No one can complain about being one shotted anymore... now she does not need to land abilities to kill. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
: "jUsT DoDGe hEr AbILiTieS BrO"
> I bet you thought I needed to land my abilities to kill you They had a problem balancing {{champion:76}} because she was toxic and one shoted ppl with one skill shot... and they created {{champion:142}} with THE SAME PROBLEM {{champion:76}} had. So, they fixed {{champion:142}}. Now she does not need to land abilities to kill. Riot games in a nutshell.
: You and this video are completely accurate and reasonable, but a lot of shortsighted people that just hate the idea of ADCs being strong at any point won't even listen to what you're saying. Regardless of winrates and individual champions, the state of the game is such that marksmen have become largely obsolete and have little or no impact on the game, which makes them nothing but a liability. On top of this, Riot further increased the weaknesses the role already had. The ADC was the primary sustained damage source of the team. The tradeoff of being the best suited type of champion to carry was that marksmen: - Have little or no self peel - Are very squishy - Have less mobility - Are usually weak early - Need gold/items to scale more than levels - Are the most team dependent class in the game But the were still necessary for a team because they were the best at sieging and taking objectives, the best option against tanks, and the most reliable win condition in fights if well protected. Now they usually don't get the time or the laning phase to scale up to being that teamfight carry, they aren't needed to take objectives, are super weak early or on their own, and tanks get killed by the other damage carries about as easily. If a class of champions offer nothing uniquely vital to their team, but have a bunch of weaknesses and liabilities and need their team to hold their hand to do anything, why pick them over something that is more useful solo PLUS covers the former strengths of ADCs? THAT is why marksmen feel pretty bad to play right now. Sure, some specific ADCs are strong enough to still survive, a few sidestep the item issues with their builds, and a coordinated team can still make them work. But overall there are a lot of downsides to the role and almost no benefit, so the class is pretty gutted right now. But some people will ignore that and say it isn't a problem, cause they want to play Garen in every lane or some other nonsense.
: 1) I'm sorry but, going {{item:3155}} does not actually impact "core builds" It's just another build. There is an ongoing misdirection by "Meta players" That "Crit all" or "Lethality" is always the correct build path. But in fact..... there are MANY ways to build an adc, and they generally don't see a deterioration of farming rates, and see more success on the versus stage. Season 3-5, Life steal was more meta than Armor Penetration or Crit Rate. Players didn't prioritize crit until Season 6 Introduced Warlord's Bloodlust, and then modified it to give larger heals on crit. It was a secondary stat. And no. It does work. I generally run scores like 10/0/8 doing this..... even if a long range mage has an ADC in lane like {{champion:119}} . How? I take Legend: Bloodlines instead of Legend: Alacrity. Sacrificing a little attack speed growth for sustain bypasses the need for starting life steal versus big hitters, and your initial build items are usually something like a {{item:1038}} so the AD difference is trivial anyways. You're free to {{item:3086}} after Hexdrinker, and then go into finalizing items, but there is literally no disadvantage to interrupting your "core build" if it means surviving the trades, and keeping your lane healthy. (I've actually ended up my team's TANK as an adc by doing this, and ending 10/0/8, where I had most damage taken on my team, yet still had 0 deaths, and it was vs a Draven/Vel Koz. Did second highest damage, took most damage, and healed the most. Never had to recall because of "low HP.") Also, it's never about one item's micro advantages. It's about how they interact together. Nullifying Orb + Hexdrinker can absorb about 400-500 Magic damage early game, effectively putting adcs outside their damage capacity to kill at that time. Going Resolve runes somewhere in the build also sometimes helps, such as vs a {{champion:63}} , having Second Wind/Bone Plating. If you go full meta build vs him, he generally erases you. If you go these three things, he generally won't ever get you under half HP. Sometimes shaving off a few points of offense is worth it. for massive gains to defense. 2) You're cutting out a change between to local, immediate patches and trying to say that somehow a new results in no sustain. In truth they boosted the AD bonus from FF when they took out the Crit multiplier, which actually makes the rune more versatile. Now Lethality build Adcs can heal off of it. Granted, you don't want to use it on minions, but it still heals considerably. .3 of AD in most games makes it a 110 -ish heal on crit based adcs, but it becomes a 165 ish heal on Lethality based or life steal builds. Which is competitive with what it always was. And it being a "Nerf" doesn't mean it hasn't allowed people to bypass builds. It still heals considerably. 3) I guarantee I can beat your mages you listed every single time, and I don't main adc. Ziggs is the only pain, because he can cheap kill turrets, and is mana cheap. And I can still beat him. I will {{champion:222}} or {{champion:21}} them to death every single time. I've played for 5 years and have over 9 million mastery between my accounts :S.
Im happy that you still find success playing adc in the bot lane. I m having more success with some mages. Using a play style focused on poke and negating the farm as much as possible. With the objective to shut them down with lack of gold and lvl's.
: Why is your account level 20? There are very few mage champs who actually win bot lanes versus adcs in ranked. Smart adcs counter it by going {{item:3155}} , or getting Nullifying Orb, or starting {{item:1054}} vs high spammability or DoT mages. {{champion:161}} and {{champion:101}} can be pseudo irritating, but even they lose versus adcs of the same level in ranked. The reason adcs win is because they have sustain. The mages don't. Fleet Footwork builds, life steal etc ..... lets them outtrade mages in a poke fest. There's a FEW exceptions, like {{champion:67}} , but even if you shut her down early, she generally gets enough farm to eliminate the mage bots late game. Another thing REALLY important to consider is that by forcing a mage bottom breeds your team in weakness. It almost always results in 3, possibly four burst mages on the team, which means the other team which specializes in assassins, adcs, and tanks, easily can counter build them with {{item:3156}} {{item:3139}} {{item:3065}} {{item:3194}} {{item:3001}} {{item:3111}} and can usually completely ignore building items like {{item:3033}} {{item:3026}} because they don't have many serious sustain among mages (except enchanters/{{champion:8}} ) You might get away with it in Norms. In Ranked, you generally go 0/6 - 0/10 before you ever get an opportunity to do killing damage (Mid game an unfed mage suffers FAR more than an unfed adc)
> Why is your account level 20? I lost my head to many times. And then i lost my account... {{sticker:sg-soraka}} So i'm using other old accounts to play. ------------------------------------ I will pick some of your topics and i will give my practical opinion, i tried some of the thing you mentioned. If they rush {{item:3155}} they will delay their core build, their essential items and will just be more behind. Nullifying Orb does not prevent them to get poked and forced out of lane. The {{item:1054}} effect is nearly unnoticed. If an adc chose to buy any of the counter build items early u mentioned they will delay their core build, their essential items and will just be more behind. > The reason adcs win is because they have sustain. The mages don't. Fleet Footwork builds, life steal etc ..... lets them outtrade mages in a poke fest. Patch V8.11 Stats Base health increased to 531 from 515. Health growth increased to 88 from 82. Base armor reduced to 28 from 32. Base health regeneration reduced to 3.75 from 6. Base attack damage reduced to 57 from 61. Attack damage growth increased to 3.4 from 2.7. Patch V8.11 Fleet Footwork Bonus movement speed reduced to 20% from 30%. REMOVED: Healing being increased by 40% of your critical damage modifier when triggered by a critical strike. REMOVED: Healing being 60% effective against minions. Ranged healing against minions reduced to 20% from 30%. Heal AP ratio increased to 50% AP from 40% AP. ADC sustain is nerfed. They can't outtrade mage if they cant get the items they need. As a mage it's easy to prevent that they have the chance to farm, get gold and buy those **expensive** items. Making them irrelevant to the game since minute 3 Im not have problem vs adc playing Lux, Ziggs, Swain, Vlad, Brand, etc Even if i dont get kills in the early game, im more relevant and impactful than an adc till the game reaches minute 30 or 40 and by then the adc have their expensive items... but i can still burst them down with a good combo. The games don't reach the 30 or 40 minutes many times, so im not having that problem many times. I been playing adcs for 3 years so i can note the differences on them. They might not be dead because they can still shine in the very late game, but right now they are completely crippled and can't reach the late game if the opposition knows what is doing.
AmazoX (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Limrick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LwrAqwaf,comment-id=000d0000,timestamp=2018-07-10T16:07:35.093+0000) > > Uhhh, what? A champion being easy has nothing to do with how high they can take you up the ladder. Garen is undoubtedly easier than Yasuo, but you can't get to Challenger with him either. > > Also, what's with this attitude of "you aren't Challenger, so your opinion doesn't mean anything"? Garen is easy to play and easy to master. OP and a lot of people here are implying that Yasuo is a brain dead champion *IS* which half true for being easy to play but they don realise his hard to master, which validates my point that you actually have to give credit to the Yasuo if his outplayed you.
"Garen is easy to play and easy to master." Garen is easy to master ??? You dont play the same game we do...
Fízz v2 (EUW)
: About {{champion:119}} {{champion:145}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:81}} {{champion:498}} {{champion:110}} {{champion:202}} {{champion:21}}
Then if you are talking about 8 different champions you cant say "Well same goes for adcs. Like 12% pick rate 54-55% win rate Draven LUL" and be taken seriously. I find it funny when someone starts a conversation about a whole class of champions, people just pick those that are still seeing some light in the darkness that the whole class is. And even those, in my opinion, are not that great. No, i did not opened this discussion to argue about the faces you mentioned. I wanted to express my opinion about the whole class of adcs including Ashe, Caitlyn, Corki, Draven, Ezreal, Jhin, Jinx, Kai'Sa, Kalista, Kog'Maw, Lucian, Miss Fortune, Quinn, Sivir, Tristana, Twitch, Varus, Vayne and Xayah.
: Adcs are NOT dead. In fact nearly every nonmeta bot lane is a hyper feeding mess right now. Just because people are double laning mages doesn't make it viable. What it DOES mean is "Fill" is 70-80% Bot now instead of support. So non ADCs are getting filled as Bot, and they do not want to play adc, so they choose mages. None of this is actually empirical evidence of adcs being weak. In fact most still carry just as hard and more than the mage laners. What it is empirical evidence of: Adcs boycotting the role.
I am playing mages with heavy poke damage in the bot lane. I found it very easy to shut down adcs in the early game, nagating them the chance to farm safely. I understand that people are still adapting, but it is very easy to shut them down and make them irrelevant for the whole game. Im not opening this discussion to provide empirical evidence, i just found a video that expresses my opinion about the current state of adcs in a very simple way and wanted to share it.
Fízz v2 (EUW)
: Well same goes for adcs. Like 12% pick rate 54-55% win rate Draven LUL
Are you talking about adc's or Draven in particular?
Fízz v2 (EUW)
: "Only 32% of games have an adc on both team" -> adcs are dead how many games have had an assassin mid on both teams tho? two since season 4? lel
Yes. I had heard of that logic before. Assassin's are played in Mid, Jung and Top. I always saw them in games. I always saw them as a force to be feared. I always saw them having success when played right.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=MonarchVis,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R6Wl49ao,comment-id=00030001000000000000000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-01T12:09:47.622+0000) > > Ppl dont want the game to be always in the same way. Ppl dont mind the bot diversity and the new approaches to win games. > > Ppl are complaining because this was achieved by removing of the game ranged fighters that could build critical damage. Riot changed the game by destroying part of it. > > Ppl are coming back to the game because they like that change and people are leaving because they don't like that change. > > Riot should create a game were every champion they create and design can have a way to play, contributing to the game in a fair environment. But its always more easy to buff and nerf champions and enforce gamestyles or metas to their players than actually solve problems. > > Riot is just a small indie company... bot diversity lol go to champ gg and sort by play rate
This boards are claiming that there is more bot diversity now and different win conditions in game, centered in new duos in bot lane. So i'm just reaffirming that belief. I find % information based sites related with League irrelevant, i don't trust or need that information.
: Why is it that if a woman sleeps with 10 men she is a "hoe"
"'A key that can open many locks is called a master key, but a lock that can be opened by many keys is a shitty lock.'” I know it's an old saying... But screw it i like shitty lock's.
: > [{quoted}](name=MonarchVis,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0798wIlN,comment-id=001100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-04T19:21:14.705+0000) > > With all due respect (I have never disrespected anyone) I think you are complicating what for me is very simple. > > I apologize if somehow, I did not make myself understood, with what I tried to convey when I answered you. > > I am not creating this discussion with the aim of comparing abilities or mechanics involved. I created this discussion to talk about Yasuo"E" Sweeping Blade and how the use of indicators would help players to play with him and against him. > > I do not know what you consider as activation conditions. For me all abilities are activated by clicking on a button on the keyboard when they are available. They may not be available due to cooldown, range or very specific conditions. > > I fail to understand what this has to do with the subject discussed in the **top** topic, i never contradicted this reasoning. > > Again, i fail to understand what this has to do with the subject discussed in the **top** topic. I feel that I am not making myself understood or that i am being trolled. > > How can you reach the conclusion the just because Udyr stun dont have a visual indicator, Yasuo dash dont need a visual indicator in the targets he dashes to? > > _Udyr gains x% increased movement speed and ignores unit collision for y seconds, Udyr's basic attacks stun the target for 1 second._ This never was hard to understand for players playing with him or against him, this is a very straing forward ability that does no leave any doubts for the new and veteran players. > > _Yasuo dashes a fixed distance through an enemy dealing damage and marking them briefly_ **(only the Yasuo player can see the marks)**. _Yasuo can use Sweeping Blade multiple times in succession_ **(creating multiple marks on the targets he dashes to, each mark with a different cooldown)**. _The Ability says that when sweeping blade is cast on a target, the target will get marked for x seconds_ **(again, only the Yasuo player can see the marks).** _Yasuo cannot use Sweeping Blade on an enemy that's already been marked_ **(in low elo Yasuo players can abuse this ability because no one can track which targets he dashed to and no one can track how many time passed between those dashes). > ** > **Yasuo"E" Sweeping Blade does have a cooldown of 0.5 / 0.4 / 0.3 / 0.2 / 0.1 seconds which is pretty close to no cooldown outside of needing a target that isn't marked.** > **People find it difficult to know when he has an escape route and when he does not have one unless they use mental timers, which new players do not use.** > > Let me clarify. Im not insisting. I am trying to defend my opinion by being as clear as possible. The opinion i have is based on what i believe is true and what i believe is true is based on what i perceive as reality. I understand that you have your own opinion and I will not try to change it. We can only agree or disagree. In this discussion are ppl that agree and there are people that disagree with the idea i proposed, which is completely fine. > > If we are having difficulty understanding ourselves, i appreciate if you could express yourself better. I'm doing my best so you can understand the reason I believe my idea is good. > > You are free to have your opinion and I am not here trying to force mine on anyone. "How can you reach the conclusion the just because Udyr stun dont have a visual indicator, Yasuo dash dont need a visual indicator in the targets he dashes to?" It does have a visual indicator. I thought you told me you've played Udyr. The indicator is the same as Yasuo's..... The point of the ability comparisons was to show that different abilties can have similarities. When I said: When they clearly have similar mechanics and should therefore be consistent with each other visually. Of course the abilities don't work the same way. They're different abilities on different champions. However, they do work the same in regards to how activating them works. You told me I was contradicting myself. There is no contradiction. " Of course the abilities don't work the same way. They're different abilities on different champions. However, they do work the same in regards to how activating them works." If you play this game. You would understand why I brought up riftwalk and living artillery. I'm going to emphasize this line you said. "How can you reach the conclusion the just because Udyr stun dont have a visual indicator, Yasuo dash dont need a visual indicator in the targets he dashes to?" I suggets you go play some udyr. Or idk look at my infographic. The point is that Yasuo's e is not unique in it's per target cooldown mechanic and changing it's visibility to others would make it inconsistent with the other abilities that it shares this attribute with.
Not wanting to be rude, I'll ignore everything until the line below. The reason is simply because it has nothing to do with the discussion that I created. I do not believe in similarities between abilities, I always see them in the big picture. > The point is that Yasuo's e is not unique in it's per target cooldown mechanic and changing it's visibility to others would make it inconsistent with the other abilities that it shares this attribute with. I'll cut to the chase. I do not believe in this belief that you claim to be true. I have already made myself clear why, but I'll explain myself better: For me YASUO "E" SWEEPING BLADE does not share any attributes of similarity with other abilities, **for me Yasuo E is unique**. There are visual similarities to other abilities, which I consider to be irrelevant for this discussion. I understand your infographic but I do not consider it valid for this discussion. I'm going to emphasize this that i also said: "I have noted that you are insisting that i don't know how that champions you mentioned works. I don't know how you reached that conclusion but it is wrong. I have played and i still play those champions. Players don't have any problem understanding how they work playing with them or against them."
: > [{quoted}](name=MonarchVis,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0798wIlN,comment-id=0011000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-02T18:21:24.429+0000) > > You are contradicting yourself. > > Yes. Point out the contradiction. DO it. There isn't one. Do you think my statements are mutually exclusive? Do you believe unique abilities can't have the same activation conditions? Is the fact that Rift Walk and Living Artillery exist a contradiction? Are they the same ability? No. Do they have similar scaling mana cost mechanic? Yes. I'm actually in disbelief right now. Are Charm and Harsh Lesson the same ability? No. Do they both require mana? Yes. Are Udyr stuns and Yasuo dashes the same ability? No. Do they both require there to be no mark of cd? Yes. And you Insist they are completely unrelated. That's just being stubborn. I have not downvoted anything you have said yet. However, I feel the need to now.
With all due respect (I have never disrespected anyone) I think you are complicating what for me is very simple. I apologize if somehow, I did not make myself understood, with what I tried to convey when I answered you. I am not creating this discussion with the aim of comparing abilities or mechanics involved. I created this discussion to talk about Yasuo"E" Sweeping Blade and how the use of indicators would help players to play with him and against him. > Do you believe unique abilities can't have the same activation conditions? I do not know what you consider as activation conditions. For me all abilities are activated by clicking on a button on the keyboard when they are available. They may not be available due to cooldown, range or very specific conditions. > Is the fact that Rift Walk and Living Artillery exist a contradiction? Are they the same ability? No. Do they have similar scaling mana cost mechanic? Yes. I'm actually in disbelief right now. I fail to understand what this has to do with the subject discussed in the **top** topic, i never contradicted this reasoning. > Are Charm and Harsh Lesson the same ability? No. Do they both require mana? Yes. Again, i fail to understand what this has to do with the subject discussed in the **top** topic. I feel that I am not making myself understood or that i am being trolled. > Are Udyr stuns and Yasuo dashes the same ability? No. Do they both require there to be no mark of cd? Yes. How can you reach the conclusion the just because Udyr stun dont have a visual indicator, Yasuo dash dont need a visual indicator in the targets he dashes to? _Udyr gains x% increased movement speed and ignores unit collision for y seconds, Udyr's basic attacks stun the target for 1 second._ This never was hard to understand for players playing with him or against him, this is a very straing forward ability that does no leave any doubts for the new and veteran players. _Yasuo dashes a fixed distance through an enemy dealing damage and marking them briefly_ **(only the Yasuo player can see the marks)**. _Yasuo can use Sweeping Blade multiple times in succession_ **(creating multiple marks on the targets he dashes to, each mark with a different cooldown)**. _The Ability says that when sweeping blade is cast on a target, the target will get marked for x seconds_ **(again, only the Yasuo player can see the marks).** _Yasuo cannot use Sweeping Blade on an enemy that's already been marked_ **(in low elo Yasuo players can abuse this ability because no one can track which targets he dashed to and no one can track how many time passed between those dashes). ** **Yasuo"E" Sweeping Blade does have a cooldown of 0.5 / 0.4 / 0.3 / 0.2 / 0.1 seconds which is pretty close to no cooldown outside of needing a target that isn't marked.** **People find it difficult to know when he has an escape route and when he does not have one unless they use mental timers, which new players do not use.** > And you Insist they are completely unrelated. That's just being stubborn. Let me clarify. Im not insisting. I am trying to defend my opinion by being as clear as possible. The opinion i have is based on what i believe is true and what i believe is true is based on what i perceive as reality. I understand that you have your own opinion and I will not try to change it. We can only agree or disagree. In this discussion are ppl that agree and there are people that disagree with the idea i proposed, which is completely fine. If we are having difficulty understanding ourselves, i appreciate if you could express yourself better. I'm doing my best so you can understand the reason I believe my idea is good. > I have not downvoted anything you have said yet. However, I feel the need to now. You are free to have your opinion and I am not here trying to force mine on anyone.
: > [{quoted}](name=MonarchVis,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0798wIlN,comment-id=00110000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-01T11:54:18.247+0000) > > I appreciate the infographic. > > I believe that you are assuming that if an visual indicator looks the same, the abilities work in the same way and are gruped in a sort of group or family of "types of cd indicators". > > That way you are not considering the effects of the skill or the purpose of using the skill, you are not considering the champions's kit where this ability is inserted, you are not considering if it is an ability to do damage, cc or to increase mobility, you are not considering if players need the information of that ability usage or not... that creates a flawed belief. > > I have noted that you are insisting that i don't know how that champions you mentioned works. I don't know how you reached that conclusion but it is wrong. I have played and i still play those champions. Players don't have any problem understanding how they work playing with them or against them. Of course the abilities don't work the same way. They're different abilities on different champions. However, they do work the same in regards to how activating them works. If circle is there, abilities doesn't work on target. If circle isn't there, ability works and puts circle there. Circle lasts a certain amount of time. Therefor I expect there to be consistency in the visual representation of the circle. Are you still insisting on arguing that they have nothing to do with each other. When they clearly have similar mechanics and should therefore be consistent with each other visually. Should we have some stuns display the stunned visual effect and others not? Maybe nocturne fear should have the fear effect and ww's fear not have it?
> When they clearly have similar mechanics and should therefore be consistent with each other visually. > Of course the abilities don't work the same way. They're different abilities on different champions. > However, they do work the same in regards to how activating them works. **I feel that** you are contradicting yourself. > Are you still insisting on arguing that they have nothing to do with each other. Yes, **for me they have nothing to do with each other.** # Edited for a better understanding
: > [{quoted}](name=MonarchVis,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R6Wl49ao,comment-id=000300010000000000000002000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-29T11:53:56.662+0000) > > Its easy to reach the highest sustained damage? Its not easy and you need to work hard to reach there. > > Adc is the most weak role of the game in terms of survivability, generally the most dangerous late game adcs (crit users) dont even have the ability to duel properly or self peel, they cant be on 1vs1 situations in early game and suceed. In the early game they don't have any relevant damage and the build available to them is the most expensive. > > You only reach the highest sustained damage playing adc after u play 30 minutes of the game. > You are babysited in the early game because everyone can abuse you. > You have to rely on your team in mid game because one mistake and you die. > You SHINE in the late game and you FINALLY you can be considered to be self sufficient... after 30 minutes. And even after 30 minutes you can be deleted by burst damage if u miss position yourself. > > Riot did this. The players never wanted to make ADC an obligation to the game. > Riot developed that meta and designed many adcs to work in that meta only. > Now they are destroying the class they designed to work in the meta they created themself's. Yes and now riot is trying to make it so that adcs aren't required in every game and you guys are complaining and wanting it to go back to how it was. It was awful and stale and if they bring it back I will quit again.
Ppl dont want the game to be always in the same way. Ppl dont mind the bot diversity and the new approaches to win games. Ppl are complaining because this was achieved by removing of the game ranged fighters that could build critical damage. Riot changed the game by destroying part of it. Ppl are coming back to the game because they like that change and people are leaving because they don't like that change. Riot should create a game were every champion they create and design can have a way to play, contributing to the game in a fair environment. But its always more easy to buff and nerf champions and enforce gamestyles or metas to their players than actually solve problems. Riot is just a small indie company...
: > [{quoted}](name=MonarchVis,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0798wIlN,comment-id=001100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-29T19:25:56.769+0000) > > _Upon attacking a unit from behind, Shaco critically strikes them for 1.3 per total attack damage (+40% of ability power), increased to 2.0 per total attack damage (+40% of ability power) against monsters. Shaco can't Backstab the same unit for 3 seconds, affected by cooldown reduction._ > > **Udyr gains 15 / 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 % increased movement speed and ignores unit collision for 2 / 2.25 / 2.5 / 2.75 / 3 seconds. Udyr dashes slightly forward when attacking a target while the buff is still active, and only when he stuns the target.** > > **While in Bear Stance, Udyr's basic attacks stun the target for 1 second. This effect cannot occur on the same target for 6 seconds.** > > **The mana cost of this ability decreases with Udyr's level, down to 28 mana at level 18.** > > _Yasuo dashes a fixed distance through an enemy, dealing 60 / 70 / 80 / 90 / 100 (+60% of ability power) (+0.2 per bonus attack damage) magic damage and marking them briefly. If Yasuo uses Sweeping Blade multiple times in succession, the ability deals extra 25% base damage with a 50% bonus maximum. When sweeping blade is cast on a target, the target will get marked for 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 / 6 seconds. Yasuo cannot use Sweeping Blade on an enemy that's already been marked. > "We can't propose change to one and lave the others as is._ > > If you can't figure out the differences between this 3 abilities. I cant help you. > > Consistency on this matter is irrelevant. All abilities work in a unique way... there is no group or family of "types of cd indicators" > > That is the reason i created this dicussion, players should not have to track SWEEPING BLADE marks on minions, having to keep multiple mental timers going, while having to look at the mini map, last hitting etc. > > Annie always had a visual information saying when she had her stun ready, the visual upgrade was unnecessary and it only served to help low elo players to understand the champion... they do this type of visual updates to increase clarity of game on many champions. > > You can track Jhin auto attacks yourself. > You can track Annie stun yourself. > You just need to count and keep timers on your head for many abilities that riot choose to implement visual information. > > Yasuo SWEEPING BLADE is a unique ability with 475 of range and 0.5 / 0.4 / 0.3 / 0.2 / 0.1 cooldown. It can be cast multple times. > Its purpose is mobility and to increase damage. This is the ability he uses to gap close and escape. > Better clarity in it would help low elo players to understand the champion. Have you played these champs? I think if the cd indicator is identical visibly, it should function identically. You have clearly not played the champions I have brought up. I made you an infographic: [WOW!](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/370373947382038530/462610732903694347/infographic.png)
I appreciate the infographic. I believe that you are assuming that if an visual indicator looks the same, the abilities work in the same way and are gruped in a sort of group or family of "types of cd indicators". That way you are not considering the effects of the skill or the purpose of using the skill, you are not considering the champions's kit where this ability is inserted, you are not considering if it is an ability to do damage, cc or to increase mobility, you are not considering if players need the information of that ability usage or not... that creates a flawed belief. I have noted that you are insisting that i don't know how that champions you mentioned works. I don't know how you reached that conclusion but it is wrong. I have played and i still play those champions. Players don't have any problem understanding how they work playing with them or against them.
: > [{quoted}](name=MonarchVis,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0798wIlN,comment-id=0011000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-29T11:36:24.319+0000) > > Its not the cd of the ability that needs to be visible. Its the marks of the ability usage that needs to be visible. > > You are clearly confusing what i want and why i create this discussion. > > "How does Riot expect anyone let alone low elo players to remember which minions he dashed to first and keep 6 mental timers going, while having to look at the mini map, last hitting etc." > > You are clearly confusing what i want and why i create this discussion. > > We actually have this: > {{champion:1}} Stun > {{champion:245}} You know if he has ult or not if a clone is following. Not the same as seeing up-time, but functionally similar. The clone also pops up 4 seconds before Ekko can re-cast ult, so you get warned if you're fighting him. > {{champion:11}} You know if he has E or not based on the color/aura of his sword. > {{champion:421}} Tunnels. > {{champion:102}} Ult tied to Fury Bar. > {{champion:8}} Q > {{champion:202}} Crit Auto > {{champion:42}} Rocket ammo > {{champion:498}} Empowered auto amount > etc > > This was responded to Cu Chulame (NA): For all intents and purposes. The "marks" are Yasuo's dash cd's...... "You are clearly confusing what i want and why i create this discussion." Yasuo's e marks work exactly like Shaco's backstab marks and udyr's stuns. We can't propose change to one and lave the others as is. That would be inconsistent. All the other examples you have listed are not merely just cd's for a champions mechanic, they're VERY important things that riot chose to show via the gui. The point is it's not absolutely necessary to know Yasuo's minion cd's. If you want to know you should track it yourself. Notice with shaco backstabd yasuo dash and udyr stun, you can track it's availability because it needs to be used on the target first, the cd only mattes after it is already used on something. Annie stun and Jhin bullets are slightly different because when you fight an Annie or Jhin, you couldn't of reliably tracked them before hand. Let me try to explain this. Yasuo e and udyr e and shaco passive are a cd on a per target basis. If you get backstabbed by shaco, You have a general estimate on when he can backstab you again based on when he backstabbed you (Yes the cd is reduced by cdr) so there doesn't need to be a circle around you. When you're fighting an annie, there's no way to tell how many abilities she has used before hand so the visual indicator is required. Having yasuo's e as is would make it so there's at least still some skill expression when playing against him. I mean if you want to know Yasuo's e cd track it yourself, it's currently consistent with every other ability that shares this type of cd indicator. Even though you pretend they don't exist. Edit: Re-reading your post, it seems to me you don't understand why I brought up shaco backstab and udyr stun. Have you not played those champions? To clarify, the circle that counts down on yasuo's minions are not unique to yasuo. Shaco and udyr as well as other target specific cd's (other than talon cause of wall's irregular shapes) share that mechanic.
> " Yasuo's e marks work exactly like Shaco's backstab marks and udyr's stuns" _Upon attacking a unit from behind, Shaco critically strikes them for 1.3 per total attack damage (+40% of ability power), increased to 2.0 per total attack damage (+40% of ability power) against monsters. Shaco can't Backstab the same unit for 3 seconds, affected by cooldown reduction._ **Udyr gains 15 / 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 % increased movement speed and ignores unit collision for 2 / 2.25 / 2.5 / 2.75 / 3 seconds. Udyr dashes slightly forward when attacking a target while the buff is still active, and only when he stuns the target.** **While in Bear Stance, Udyr's basic attacks stun the target for 1 second. This effect cannot occur on the same target for 6 seconds.** **The mana cost of this ability decreases with Udyr's level, down to 28 mana at level 18.** _Yasuo dashes a fixed distance through an enemy, dealing 60 / 70 / 80 / 90 / 100 (+60% of ability power) (+0.2 per bonus attack damage) magic damage and marking them briefly. If Yasuo uses Sweeping Blade multiple times in succession, the ability deals extra 25% base damage with a 50% bonus maximum. When sweeping blade is cast on a target, the target will get marked for 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 / 6 seconds. Yasuo cannot use Sweeping Blade on an enemy that's already been marked. "We can't propose change to one and lave the others as is._ If you can't figure out the differences between this 3 abilities. I cant help you. > That would be inconsistent. Consistency on this matter is irrelevant. All abilities work in a unique way... there is no group or family of "types of cd indicators" > The point is it's not absolutely necessary to know Yasuo's minion cd's. If you want to know you should track it yourself. That is the reason i created this dicussion, players should not have to track SWEEPING BLADE marks on minions, having to keep multiple mental timers going, while having to look at the mini map, last hitting etc. > there's no way to tell how many abilities she has used before hand so the visual indicator is required. > Annie or Jhin, you couldn't of reliably tracked them before hand. > I mean if you want to know Yasuo's e cd track it yourself Annie always had a visual information saying when she had her stun ready, the visual upgrade was unnecessary and it only served to help low elo players to understand the champion... they do this type of visual updates to increase clarity of game on many champions. You can track Jhin auto attacks yourself. You can track Annie stun yourself. You just need to count and keep timers on your head for many abilities that riot choose to implement visual information. > it's currently consistent with every other ability that shares this type of cd indicator. Yasuo SWEEPING BLADE is a unique ability with 475 of range and 0.5 / 0.4 / 0.3 / 0.2 / 0.1 cooldown. It can be cast multple times. Its purpose is mobility and to increase damage. This is the ability he uses to gap close and escape. Better clarity in it would help low elo players to understand the champion.
: > [{quoted}](name=MonarchVis,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R6Wl49ao,comment-id=0003000100000000000000020000,timestamp=2018-06-28T08:48:44.152+0000) > > You think that everyone that deals damage have to make the same amout of damage? > You believe that all roles that were made to deal damage should do de same damage of an adc? > You think that all roles work the same way? > > > The game is made to provide you with champions with diferente roles, and inside those roles you can chose champions with diferent play styles. But you need to play inside the role, with the role strengths and weaknesses. > > In a game normally everyone have a purpose, and in league you can choose many ways to fulfil the purpose you want to fulfil. Some are better than others. > > In football terms: You can't have a "Left wing" or "Right wing" doing the same thing a "Centre forward/ Striker" does. You think ADC should automatically do the most easy and highest sustained damage of anyone and be required in any game?
> Easy? Its easy to reach the highest sustained damage? Its not easy and you need to work hard to reach there. Adc is the most weak role of the game in terms of survivability, generally the most dangerous late game adcs (crit users) dont even have the ability to duel properly or self peel, they cant be on 1vs1 situations in early game and suceed. In the early game they don't have any relevant damage and the build available to them is the most expensive. You only reach the highest sustained damage playing adc after u play 30 minutes of the game. You are babysited in the early game because everyone can abuse you. You have to rely on your team in mid game because one mistake and you die. You SHINE in the late game and you FINALLY you can be considered to be self sufficient... after 30 minutes. And even after 30 minutes you can be deleted by burst damage if u miss position yourself. > Be required in any game? Riot did this. The players never wanted to make ADC an obligation to the game. Riot developed that meta and designed many adcs to work in that meta only. Now they are destroying the class they designed to work in the meta they created themself's.
: > [{quoted}](name=MonarchVis,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0798wIlN,comment-id=00110000,timestamp=2018-06-24T21:44:12.350+0000) > > This is not about my personal skill. I don't have any problem facing Yasuo. > > I already responded to Hayaishi (NA) and will maintain my opinion about this: See the thing is. Why does it need to be visible? Why isn't every other cd visible? Should we make shaco backstabs visible to every player? Udyr Stuns? The point of the visual indicator on yasuo e is for his own use to know which minion he can dash through. There is ZERO reason why the enemy should get to know that as well. It's like every other cd. Do we have big bars above our enemies showing whether their ultimates, q's w's e's zonyas etc are up? I can make the same argument of "visual clarity" for those situations as well.
> Why does it need to be visible? Why isn't every other cd visible? Its not the cd of the ability that needs to be visible. Its the marks of the ability usage that needs to be visible. > Should we make shaco backstabs visible to every player? Udyr Stuns? You are clearly confusing what i want and why i create this discussion. > There is ZERO reason why the enemy should get to know that as well. "How does Riot expect anyone let alone low elo players to remember which minions he dashed to first and keep 6 mental timers going, while having to look at the mini map, last hitting etc." > Do we have big bars above our enemies showing whether their ultimates, q's w's e's zonyas etc are up? You are clearly confusing what i want and why i create this discussion. We actually have this: {{champion:1}} Stun {{champion:245}} You know if he has ult or not if a clone is following. Not the same as seeing up-time, but functionally similar. The clone also pops up 4 seconds before Ekko can re-cast ult, so you get warned if you're fighting him. {{champion:11}} You know if he has E or not based on the color/aura of his sword. {{champion:421}} Tunnels. {{champion:102}} Ult tied to Fury Bar. {{champion:8}} Q {{champion:202}} Crit Auto {{champion:42}} Rocket ammo {{champion:498}} Empowered auto amount etc This was responded to Cu Chulame (NA): > I think you don't understand what i'm after with this discussion, so let me try to be clear. > > I DONT WANT the cooldown of ANY skill of ANY champion. Displayed for all to see. > I DONT WANT the cooldown of "Q" "W" "E" "R" of ANY champion. Displayed for all to see. > > I want to be able too see the indicators of the use of the ability AFTER the ability is used. > > Nidalee gets to mark everyone she lands her e/q on and we can see a indicator > Annie gets a stun indicator > Jhin have a crit indicator > Xayah have a feather count and indicator > Twitch's poison symbol shows EVERYONE that they're marked > Lux marks EVERYTHING her spells hit > Darius gets to mark champions every time they bleed > Diana can mark everyone she hits her Q with > Graves have a bullet indicator. > etc > > Relax, i don't want to see when you have your ultimate ready or not.
: ***
You really love your grandma. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
: > [{quoted}](name=MonarchVis,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R6Wl49ao,comment-id=0003000100000000000000010000,timestamp=2018-06-28T08:21:11.444+0000) > > Are we comparing 1 ADC auto attack with an {{champion:45}} Ult? > > How many seconds do you want to survive vs a full build character that ONLY buys damage? > They were made to do damage. no? > > The counter play was delete them before they had the chance to deal damage. It still is. > > Late game damage on ADC is stronger now. > If they can manage in the early game they still can kill in 3 or 2 or 1 seconds (you choose). ... there is a different between champsions who is designed to be a burst mage one shotting you very quickly. anda class which is desinged to do sustained damage in a fight after all cooldowns have been blown.. bursting you just as fast. and before u say "veigar R" isnt a skillshot. of course its not.. veigar is a_ late game scaling burst mage_. if u let the game go to 50 min vs him.. he is GOING to 1 shot you. that is what he is DESIGNED to be. adc are not SUPPOSED to burst people. when they do so.. then its a problem...
Veigar can buy tank itens and still insta kill. Veigar dont need to be full build to insta kill. Veigar dont need to play 30 minutes of the game to start one shotting players. This does not apply only to Veigar, it applies to many champions with burst. ADC need to be full damage, need to be full build and need 30 minutes of game to reach the point he can "insta kill with burst" like u say he does. The only time one adc becomes able "to burst" just as fast as a burst mage or assassin is in the late game after 30 minutes of game when he is full build. Unlike burst champions, adcs are always more vulnerable at all times of the game. By the time one adc reaches full build at 30 minutes of the game everybody is full build, ADC build is the most expensive. Its not burst its all the damage itens combined. It is not burst, he still need to auto 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 times, but the AS is so much ppl think is burst... This problem of the late game insane power of ADC's was not solved, they can do the same thing they always did in the late game. Even better now, that riot is buffing their late game.
: They don't, the power curve varies case-by-case. Crit build ADCs have a early -> late power curve.
Those that were made to excel in the early game are stil viable and strong in the game. Those that were made to excel in the mid/late game were pushed out of the game.
: > [{quoted}](name=MonarchVis,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R6Wl49ao,comment-id=00030001000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-27T09:51:34.466+0000) > > _"MARKSMEN BRING THE PAIN" > "Ranged fighters, Marksmen are powerful but fragile. While they rely on their team to soak up damage, teams rely on them to deal it." > _ > _Definition by_ [LeagueOfLegends](https://play.na.leagueoflegends.com/en_US) > > Damage was the class _raison d'être_, they are hated and nerfed simply because ppl dont know how to play the game. > > People complain that they can die in 3 seconds for an adc, but this is true for any adc throughout all the game. > People complain that they can die in 3 seconds for an adc and so they should be nerfed and guted and deleted, but that only can happen at 25 or more minutes of game when an ADC is full build. It will be in a team fight environment and even then teams usualy have ways to sefely 100-0 any adc, they only buy minor forms of resistence. > > Sure there is peel but every team had a goalkeeper (support), defense(team peel) and striker (adc)... it was fair play. > > Riot should had tuned bot lane influence in the game without cripple class viability, but they failed on that, like they failed with Jungler like they are failing with the game. Yes and what about mid laners and multitudes of other champions whos main role was also damage and could never even come close to ADC? Conveniently ignore that I suppose. Have one tiny type of champ become the required and forced constant damage carry role in EVERY single game all the time. Such fun and varied gameplay. Glad riot is at least moving away from the stale "meta" this crap game has had for years and years.
> _MAGES SURGE WITH POWER > Aggressive **casters**, Mages seek to destroy opponents through a range of mystical attacks, spells and abilities._ > > > _FIGHTERS LOVE TO DUEL > A **balance** of power and defense, Fighters are born to brawl, preferring their bouts up close and personal._ > > _TANKS CAN TAKE IT > **Resilient** bruisers, Tanks excel at shrugging off blows that would obliterate lesser allies._ > > _ASSASSINS CRAVE THE HUNT > Masters of **precision**, Assassins are agile hunters on the lookout for the perfect kill._ > > _SUPPORTS HAVE YOUR BACK > Stalwart **defenders**, Supports **control** the battlefield by augmenting allies and locking down enemies._ > > _MARKSMEN BRING THE PAIN > **Ranged** fighters, Marksmen are **powerful** but **fragile**. While **they rely** on their team to soak up damage, teams rely on them to deal it._ > > _Definition by_ [LeagueOfLegends](https://play.na.leagueoflegends.com/en_US) > You think that everyone that deals damage have to make the same amout of damage? You believe that all roles that were made to deal damage should do de same damage of an adc? You think that all roles work the same way? The game is made to provide you with champions with diferente roles, and inside those roles you can chose champions with diferent play styles. But you need to play inside the role, with the role strengths and weaknesses. In a game normally everyone have a purpose, and in league you can choose many ways to fulfil the purpose you want to fulfil. Some are better than others. In football terms: You can't have a "Left wing" or "Right wing" doing the same thing a "Centre forward/ Striker" does.
: > [{quoted}](name=MonarchVis,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R6Wl49ao,comment-id=00030001000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-27T09:51:34.466+0000) > > _"MARKSMEN BRING THE PAIN" > "Ranged fighters, Marksmen are powerful but fragile. While they rely on their team to soak up damage, teams rely on them to deal it." > _ > _Definition by_ [LeagueOfLegends](https://play.na.leagueoflegends.com/en_US) > > Damage was the class _raison d'être_, they are hated and nerfed simply because ppl dont know how to play the game. > > People complain that they can die in 3 seconds for an adc, but this is true for any adc throughout all the game. > People complain that they can die in 3 seconds for an adc and so they should be nerfed and guted and deleted, but that only can happen at 25 or more minutes of game when an ADC is full build. It will be in a team fight environment and even then teams usualy have ways to sefely 100-0 any adc, they only buy minor forms of resistence. > > Sure there is peel but every team had a goalkeeper (support), defense(team peel) and striker (adc)... it was fair play. > > Riot should had tuned bot lane influence in the game without cripple class viability, but they failed on that, like they failed with Jungler like they are failing with the game. LOL 3 seconds? ROFLMAO!! sure maybe it would take you 3 seconds to kill a full tank {{champion:33}} or a{{champion:54}} as adc in season 7/8. or a 10k hp {{champion:31}} . belive me.. if it actually took 3 seconds for the adc to kill us... you would have seen ZERO complaints...
Are we comparing 1 ADC auto attack with an {{champion:45}} Ult? How many seconds do you want to survive vs a full build character that ONLY buys damage? They were made to do damage. no? The counter play was delete them before they had the chance to deal damage. It still is. Late game damage on ADC is stronger now. If they can manage in the early game they still can kill in 3 or 2 or 1 seconds (you choose).
: Not just because they do a lot of damage. Everyone does and still did. Just that the game centered around ADCs, they were the only mandatory class, they were starting to get to a point where it was difficult for even assassins to kill them, and (outside of arguably skirmishers) they were just outscaling and outclassing all the other carries. >Even a slight misstep in positioning got you CCd and killed, but because they do a lot of damage, suddenly they're overpowered and need to be nerfed. Hey this applies to mages too, but they have less dps, worse siege, are more risky, and have worse itemization. They only beat ADCs in terms of burst (not rly with crit), cc and waveclear. They're far worse carries. Don't get me started on Juggernauts. Almost the entirety of that class is always obsolete.
_"MARKSMEN BRING THE PAIN" "Ranged fighters, Marksmen are powerful but fragile. While they rely on their team to soak up damage, teams rely on them to deal it." _ _Definition by_ [LeagueOfLegends](https://play.na.leagueoflegends.com/en_US) Outscaling? Wasn't that their purpose? Outclassing? They always had their weakness and their strength. They always were 0% defence and 100% offence. They always had a horrible early game and exceptional late game... that's how they were designed to work. Now they have nearly no early game presence and they have an even better late game... You saw Jinx buffs in patch 8.13? Now her rockets can crit.
: > [{quoted}](name=MonarchVis,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R6Wl49ao,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2018-06-27T12:04:11.978+0000) > > Im sure the problem of ADC right now is not the lack of defensive options. > ADCs are struggling because riot nerfed their resistances and increased the gold of their itens. > They can't retaliate properly before they buy their core items. > > If you cant hold your graund as an adc in lane to farm and buy your core itens you can be pushed so behind that the game will end before you can catch up and be relevant to your team. > > You need to play lets say 10 or 15 minutes to have gold to buy the core items, one tower can be destroyed in 7 minutes. If you get pushed out of lane to many time in early game... you will have a hard time playing with one adc champion. Why i stopped playing ezreal with tears and just rush gunblade into lichbane deathcap, meta aint got no time for scaling you need damage and dominate your lane and be a threat early.
> ...meta aint got no time for scaling you need damage and dominate your lane and be a threat early. Precisely
HàrrowR (EUW)
: Some people already mentioned this,and i wrote a post about it recently,there's no rule that says you need to buy only full on offensive items,look at the LCS,even with a professional team,a dedicated support that is again a professional gamer that will follow you around and peel for you with the rest of the team,what do ADCs on those teams buy as their first and fourth item? {{item:3047}} {{item:3026}} Trust me,i always hated being one shotted or not being able to 1v1,although some ADCs are good at 1v1 and some aren't {{champion:67}} /{{champion:222}} , all ADCs can be built to not be squishy.. Like i always say i'd give up 25% of my damage for 25% more surviveability,but the catch is when you build items like {{item:3047}} {{item:3026}} {{item:3072}} as opposed to a full damage build,and i tested it,you lose around 15% of your DPS while being basically 40% - 50% harder to kill,when you factor in only resistances and shields,not even counting GA revive into that. Its basically a matter of preference,some times you'll maybe need that extra 15% dps to take someone down faster,or kill a tower/baron,but i realized that most of the time it pays off more to survive and keep doing damage than to die while being able to potentially do more damage. I mean since i started doing this build i had people chase me through my whole team trying to kill me,leaving me on 200 hp and then losing the game when i heal back up. Just try one game with Vayne with this build {{item:3047}} {{item:3095}} {{item:3046}} {{item:3026}} {{item:3031}} {{item:3072}} you basically have only 2 items that don't help your surviveability,i guarantee you you can 1v1 anything with this build and the difference is you won't kill someone in 4 seconds but in 5,but you won't get insta deleted so you can actually do the damage. Just remember,these are your friends {{item:3047}} {{item:3111}} {{item:3139}} {{item:3026}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3072}} {{item:3046}} {{item:3071}} {{item:3091}} ,you can fit at least 3-4 of them on any adc https://i.gyazo.com/d7d9e2ba0bdd4ae698ccfeca447cd287.png https://i.gyazo.com/9d7d6b8648240b2a5b037b4e8e39466c.png
Im sure the problem of ADC right now is not the lack of defensive options. ADCs are struggling because riot nerfed their resistances and increased the gold of their itens. They can't retaliate properly before they buy their core items. If you cant hold your ground as an adc in lane to farm and buy your core itens you can be pushed so behind that the game will end before you can catch up and be relevant to your team. You need to play lets say 10 or 15 minutes to have gold to buy the core items, one tower can be destroyed in 7 minutes. If you get pushed out of lane too many times in early game... you will have a hard time playing with one adc champion.
: Aatrox new rework doesent show up in his abilitys
When the champ is reworked, they don't update de skill information with the champion release. I noted the situation you described for almost all reworked champions.
: Patch 8.13 notes
Thank you for {{champion:222}} Buff. Crits on Rockets is awesome.
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MonarchVis

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