Pika Fox (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Mustamaa,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2GKcQdkK,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-09-29T13:04:39.113+0000) > > "Its not that long dont exaggerate." 750 is VERY much considering the impact it has on the game, especially considering the amount of mobility his other abilities provide. and especially when you multiply it with 5, assuming you manage to execute your 4 first opponents. > > "Their cd-s at max rank and with cdr has maybe 1-2 sec difference. And if you think that's "next to no cooldown" then I think you never palyed against full build leona." i think i went under 5 sec on my build today. 4-6 sec anyways. it's not bad alone, but how it adds up on his overall performance is what makes this bad as well. > > "His E has 15 sec flat cd at all lvls." this one i didn't know. doesn't change the point though. the amount of cc and mobility is just ridiculous considering he's an assassin, not a tank. > > "How is that a bad thing lol?" you obviously didn't read the initial post at all. please read it so i can reply to something that actually makes sense. > > "And his ult has counterplay. You can dodge it, heal yourself somehow, be invulnerable ( , or shamps abilities like Fizz E, Sivir E, Noc W...)" it's ultimately difficult to dodge something you don't see coming, because his detect range is shorter than his ult range. 0,75 second activation delay is NOTHING, since people get caught in slow activating stuns like veigar's E or Viktor's W as well all the time. you do get the notification when he's near, but because of his movement speed bonus it doesn't mean much unless you are playing one of those few champs who's mobile enough to actually do something. > > you do realize how limited the counterplay methods you offered are? "heal somehow" for god sake=D if it just worked like that for most of the champs. buying zhonya's of course do work, but it's viable item for only handful of champions, and it still requires that you focus your play solely on the point you are standing to be able to ever react on him when he strikes. > > to me it seems like you just don't like rocking the boat so you feel important to speak for any decision your pet company has made regardless of what the decisions were. again, read the OP carefully again before going on rampage. "The amount of cc and mobility is rediculous considering hes an assassin amd not a tank" Umm.... Pretty sure most tanks have limited mobility, where as assassins have high mobility. And he pays for his cc with having extremely low damage for an assassin. Almost all of his damage is in a single skillshot with a long CD that can be dodged, making him useless for over a minute.
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2GKcQdkK,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2019-09-29T14:08:05.832+0000) > > "The amount of cc and mobility is rediculous considering hes an assassin amd not a tank" > > Umm.... Pretty sure most tanks have limited mobility, where as assassins have high mobility. > > And he pays for his cc with having extremely low damage for an assassin. Almost all of his damage is in a single skillshot with a long CD that can be dodged, making him useless for over a minute. obviously the point was to evaluate his mobility and cc combined, and the statement about him not being a tank was solely on his cc. i'm sure you got that. stating his damage to be extremely low is exagerrating alot. he's not zed or yasuo, but he still deals damage very well enough to deal with mages and adc's. but so i won't repeat myself, please read the OP. this is not a topic about reworking him from scratch.
: Completely ignoring the fact pyke had basically all this stuff and was shit if not played tank for the first season he was out, then in this season he was ok until people played him top. Pyke doesn't need a rework and his changes show that. If the amount of stuff in his kit was a problem it would of showed up in the past but no it didn't, pyke well assassin pyke has really only been complained about and played a lot because of the gold change. I can go over this post and point out how almost nothing you said makes sense. Like his e having no cooldown even though it's basically impossible for him to get it twice in a fight. Like you keep saying his ult is better Darius when it does less damage and pyke can't get it off without help from his team. There are so many other supports that do way more then Pyke ali,thresh, fucking yummi. Like how can his kit be overloaded if he only does like two fucking things in a fight which basically means all he does is focus someone down and in lane he plays like a engage support with less lockdown and more roaming.
> [{quoted}](name=boricCentaur1,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2GKcQdkK,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-09-29T12:27:53.359+0000) > > Completely ignoring the fact pyke had basically all this stuff and was shit if not played tank for the first season he was out, then in this season he was ok until people played him top. > > Pyke doesn't need a rework and his changes show that. If the amount of stuff in his kit was a problem it would of showed up in the past but no it didn't, pyke well assassin pyke has really only been complained about and played a lot because of the gold change. > > I can go over this post and point out how almost nothing you said makes sense. Like his e having no cooldown even though it's basically impossible for him to get it twice in a fight. Like you keep saying his ult is better Darius when it does less damage and pyke can't get it off without help from his team. > > > There are so many other supports that do way more then Pyke ali,thresh, fucking yummi. Like how can his kit be overloaded if he only does like two fucking things in a fight which basically means all he does is focus someone down and in lane he plays like a engage support with less lockdown and more roaming. "I can go over this post and point out how almost nothing you said makes sense." be my quest. "There are so many other supports that do way more then Pyke ali,thresh, fucking yummi. Like how can his kit be overloaded if he only does like two fucking things in a fight which basically means all he does is focus someone down and in lane he plays like a engage support with less lockdown and more roaming." two things? aside of his thresh hook and op ult, he's an extremely mobile assassin with ton of damage potential. unlike some assassins like nidalee who just has short dash, pyke dashes for average adc attack range stunning enemies on the path for 0,25 seconds, so your ability to work your way on the enemy damage dealers is decent even without your ult to deal damage even if your ult is on cooldown.
: > [{quoted}](name=HellWalker2,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2GKcQdkK,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-09-29T12:28:39.040+0000) > > yall bronzes ever heard of hard cc to stop him?{{champion:555}} {{champion:157}} {{summoner:4}} don't propose logical things to this boards they are a hivemind that down votes anything they disagree with.
> [{quoted}](name=DontGetGanksKEKW,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2GKcQdkK,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-09-29T12:42:09.302+0000) > > don't propose logical things to this boards they are a hivemind that down votes anything they disagree with. you do realize that cc'ing someone who's invisible 99% of the fight is quite difficult? he can literally blink out of the way of your cc on any location on 750 yard radius just to blink away again after global cd. he can be won of course and having pyke on your team doesn't mean you win the match - he's just way too powerful at his current state.
iMidg3t (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Mustamaa,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2GKcQdkK,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-29T10:47:05.053+0000) > > first off the most obvious one - his ult. the fact that it executes (negates 100% of your armor if low hp enough) instead of just dealing damage, it scales with your AD and it has ridiculous range, meaning that you can ult the whole enemy team even if they are scattered far away from each other - in a line retreating to base or all around the jungle - doesn't matter because the range is so long. and the fact that it resets every time it kills someone. darius has this same but with much shorter range and with zero mobility, so it requires very specific situation for him to be able to execute even two players in a row. and in difference to darius, pyke's R also acts as a teleport. could literally split it in two and still have a perfectly decent ult. Its not that long dont exaggerate. > second, his Q has next to no cooldown at max rank and full build. thresh with the almost identical Q has twice as long CD, with the exception that it will always hook you on the opponent, preventing you from using AA at the time. pyke can just enhance his dmg in a close combat with the Q without losing any precious time of his. Their cd-s at max rank and with cdr has maybe 1-2 sec difference. And if you think that's "next to no cooldown" then I think you never palyed against full build leona. > if this didn't already make him broken enough, let's give him a dash with short stun ability to cancel some cool stuff like MF or Kata ult, and some nice extra damage. again also with next to no CD at max rank. but most importantly, a nice mobility boost to further enhance his ability to kill everyone with his ult. His E has 15 sec flat cd at all lvls. > and finally, a freaking invisibility ability with sick mobility boost and heal, and with such low detection range that you can execute low hp players without them ever knowing before it's too late. Detection has the same range as Eve's and Twitch's stealth. Except you even get a visual warning and a sound warning when he's close, way before you can see him. > to summarize it, his every ability has perfect synergy with his ult, and the ult itself is beyond broken with no real ways to counter it, other than not losing any hp in a fight. if you'd remove thresh Q or R, darius R, singed R, urgot R, bliz Q or basically R from any champion you'd be left with the worst champion in the game, but remove Q or R from Pyke and you'd still have a totally decent assassin with great support capabilities. without his Q he would still be probably the top 1 assassin in the game, but at least we wouldn't see him as a support executing the whole team at once. Remove his R's reset feature and replace it with a on second cast-dash or just teleport for example, and he'd be totally fine already. How is that a bad thing lol? champ's spells having synergy with each other is good. if we will go by that logic lets remove darius's true dmg increase based on Hemorrage stacks. Or garen's true dmg on ult when targeting a Villain. Spells should go hand-in-hand with each other, otherwise champs would be dogshit. And his ult has counterplay. You can dodge it, heal yourself somehow, be invulnerable ({{item:2420}} , {{item:3157}} or shamps abilities like Fizz E, Sivir E, Noc W...) > I don't know enough mathematics to calculate a ability value to a champion, but without a doubt Pyke is worth 2 any other champions at his current kit. on the other hand i must say that Pyke is insanely rewarding to play because the kit is so unique and has so perfect synergy, and because he's difficult to play well with high skill cap - it's not that you'd have to rework him completely - the numbers just need to be nerfed drastically to make him worth a normal champion. right now he's worth too much even on average hands, and with the high skill cap comes even more impact on the game if you know how to play him right. The only thing that makes him viable is extra gold from ult kill and thats it.
> [{quoted}](name=iMidg3t,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2GKcQdkK,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-09-29T12:30:35.973+0000) > > Its not that long dont exaggerate. > > Their cd-s at max rank and with cdr has maybe 1-2 sec difference. And if you think that's "next to no cooldown" then I think you never palyed against full build leona. > > His E has 15 sec flat cd at all lvls. > > Detection has the same range as Eve's and Twitch's stealth. Except you even get a visual warning and a sound warning when he's close, way before you can see him. > > How is that a bad thing lol? > champ's spells having synergy with each other is good. if we will go by that logic lets remove darius's true dmg increase based on Hemorrage stacks. Or garen's true dmg on ult when targeting a Villain. > Spells should go hand-in-hand with each other, otherwise champs would be dogshit. > And his ult has counterplay. You can dodge it, heal yourself somehow, be invulnerable ({{item:2420}} , {{item:3157}} or shamps abilities like Fizz E, Sivir E, Noc W...) > > The only thing that makes him viable is extra gold from ult kill and thats it. "Its not that long dont exaggerate." 750 is VERY much considering the impact it has on the game, especially considering the amount of mobility his other abilities provide. and especially when you multiply it with 5, assuming you manage to execute your 4 first opponents. "Their cd-s at max rank and with cdr has maybe 1-2 sec difference. And if you think that's "next to no cooldown" then I think you never palyed against full build leona." i think i went under 5 sec on my build today. 4-6 sec anyways. it's not bad alone, but how it adds up on his overall performance is what makes this bad as well. "His E has 15 sec flat cd at all lvls." this one i didn't know. doesn't change the point though. the amount of cc and mobility is just ridiculous considering he's an assassin, not a tank. "How is that a bad thing lol?" you obviously didn't read the initial post at all. please read it so i can reply to something that actually makes sense. "And his ult has counterplay. You can dodge it, heal yourself somehow, be invulnerable ( , or shamps abilities like Fizz E, Sivir E, Noc W...)" it's ultimately difficult to dodge something you don't see coming, because his detect range is shorter than his ult range. 0,75 second activation delay is NOTHING, since people get caught in slow activating stuns like veigar's E or Viktor's W as well all the time. you do get the notification when he's near, but because of his movement speed bonus it doesn't mean much unless you are playing one of those few champs who's mobile enough to actually do something. you do realize how limited the counterplay methods you offered are? "heal somehow" for god sake=D if it just worked like that for most of the champs. buying zhonya's of course do work, but it's viable item for only handful of champions, and it still requires that you focus your play solely on the point you are standing to be able to ever react on him when he strikes. to me it seems like you just don't like rocking the boat so you feel important to speak for any decision your pet company has made regardless of what the decisions were. again, read the OP carefully again before going on rampage.
Rioter Comments
Avinychus (EUW)
: Is Pyke realy that op?
> [{quoted}](name=Avinychus,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=vc9cGNEh,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-02-12T19:03:44.999+0000) > > So ye I am a main Pyke and I have seen that Pyke is beggning to get many bans in low elow for some reason. I do not realy get that because people keep talking about that he's ult is soo op but I feal like they do not know what a Darius is or Time Watch, Sheild or heal. So I was thinking if it's only me who think that people take it too far by saying that Pyke is op? > > Bc I have been playing agaist alot of Pykes but I have never realy had a big problem with him. Ye he might be op if you feed him in early game but then late game he is not that op - Like have you ever seen a feed Zyra, Thresh or Yasuo in early game.. I think that alot of people take it too far just bc they forget that other champions have kinda the same ult as Pyke but it just looks defferint. > > - Is there something I can not see?.. short answer: pyke is totally broken. why? first off the most obvious one - his ult. the fact that it executes (negates 100% of your armor if low hp enough) instead of just dealing damage, it scales with your AD and it has ridiculous range, meaning that you can ult the whole enemy team even if they are scattered far away from each other - in a line retreating to base or all around the jungle - doesn't matter because the range is so long. and the fact that it resets every time it kills someone. darius has this same but with much shorter range and with zero mobility, so it requires very specific situation for him to be able to execute even two players in a row. and in difference to darius, pyke's R also acts as a teleport. could literally split it in two and still have a perfectly decent ult. second, his Q has next to no cooldown at max rank and full build. thresh with the almost identical Q has twice as long CD, with the exception that it will always hook you on the opponent, preventing you from using AA at the time. pyke can just enhance his dmg in a close combat with the Q without losing any precious time of his. if this didn't already make him broken enough, let's give him a dash with short stun ability to cancel some cool stuff like MF or Kata ult, and some nice extra damage. again also with next to no CD at max rank. but most importantly, a nice mobility boost to further enhance his ability to kill everyone with his ult. and finally, a freaking invisibility ability with sick mobility boost and heal, and with such low detection range that you can execute low hp players without them ever knowing before it's too late. to summarize it, his every ability has perfect syngergy with his ult, and the ult itself is beyond broken with no real ways to counter it, other than not losing any hp in a fight. if you'd remove thresh Q or R, darius R, singed R, urgot R, bliz Q or basically R from any champion you'd be left with the worst champion in the game, but remove Q or R from Pyke and you'd still have a totally decent assassin with great support capabilities. I don't know enough mathematics to calculate a ability value to a champion, but without a doubt Pyke is worth 2 any other champions at his current kit. on the other hand i must say that Pyke is insanely rewarding to play because the kit is so unique and has so perfect synergy - it's not that you'd have to rework him completely - the numbers just need to be nerfed drastically to make him a normal champion.
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Mustamaa

Level 62 (EUW)
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