GigglesO (NA)
: Why tanks don't exist
The main problem for me is that she did almost 2k true damage in 3.47 sec This is burst.....
FireDrizzle (EUNE)
: Rengar top is disgusting and op
You cannot lane vs a champ that has zero kill pressure out of brush or when you are under tower? You don’t know the match Up? Regnar is the only champ that let you atleast safaly farm under tower, something rare these days.
Yenn (NA)
: Watching Rengar 100 to 0 my ADC in 0.2 seconds, before my abilities even reach him, feels amazing
People forget how effectives Tabi is against rengar. Just having tabi is enough to survive the burst, then kit him to death. Pls try it.
: Wanna fix adc? Its simple
If you are and adc, you have to relay on your team/support. Adcs aren't duelist class. The day adcs will be selfish, you will see only them in game, expecially knowing the disparity in lane in a melee vs ranged matchup. Even tower range isn't studied to help melee to farm safely...
VI Radio (EUW)
: Riot destroying Jungle role once again
I totally agree with you expecially on dragon: with the old one ,which used to give gold, you needed skill in order to trasform that gold in a lead (right items and a good teamfight); this new one it's total rng and the idea behind elder dragon is terrible for a competitive game based on snowball: you take this buff (no problem doing it because these dragons are week af, even warwick can solo them lv 4) and even a support can hurt like a track thanks to true damage. You don't need the skill to trasform the value/potential in effectiveness/real power, it' like Math! Now my number is bigger and easier to used so I won. Another porblem here is the fight with dragon: if the team who is fighting the dragon is the one who is winning, more luckly will be also the one who will take it for several reasons: 1 higher smite 2 general stronger team 3 dragon is too easily tankable You should no be able to regen or life steal on dragon and dragons should deal a good amount of aoe damage to all team( maybe reduced if all members are there to do it) so you give a chance, a little possibilty for the other team to fight for it because now if your bot is losing, you have no access to dragon. Dragon should be the card that makes you shuffle the deck and not another way to snowball with just braindead numbers.
SKZsZ (NA)
: yasuo needs to be lesser buffed b/c he is op
Dude....dude..... Windwall in an adc meta, you can't forget it..
: Rylai should have less AP, but significantly more HP and a stronger slow
Maybe if perma slow would have a counterplay, An item to ignore it, But all I see is no gameplay in Malz clicking E on me slowing until my death without the possibility to reach him or escape.
: Assassins shouldn't be able to just 1v2 freely. Stop asking for it.
Another problem that must be considered here is selfish adc: now many adc get mobility and a lot of m speed from items, while many assassins get problem reaching the target if you are not zed or akali; rengar? 1closegap, ekko? 1, talon? One plus stealth but he get no way to stack to the target or a possibility to get out, so basically an auto from an adc with mallet and a shield and as assassin you are f***ed. There is not possibilities if I jump in with rengar and cait, lucian, xahaya, vayne dashes away running with 450 m speed or more, lifestealing all the opener in 2autos. So if I get the 1shot I have done something, in all other scenario I'm just an happy meal for enemy carry. Riot shouldn't release champs like {{champion:498}} because her R basically breaks the fragile chain between assassin adc support making always situations like : omg I got 1shotted so hard that I couldn't react; or I'm an assassin and I feel useless because everytime I reach the enemy carry, he is untouchable plus there is the point and click support with no animation or cast time. Riot should decrease assassin damage increasing by a lot their mobility because now in this meta a lot of bruisers(irelia fiora) ,fighters (melee carries like yasuo)and even adcs (vayne tristana ) have similar or more mobility than assassins being tankier.
: Waveclear work for 8.6 or later
Do you what to make harder to clean a weave? Perfect! Start nerfing all ranged base ad, nerf this overturned item called statik shiv (which give aoe burst to a class who should be designed to deal dps and not more magic damage then a mage). The problem is that When an adc takes statik shiv, the interaction ends: just a double proc or a single critted one and all lane is clened. Instead from the point of view of melee the last hitting it's already pretty hard thanks to creep block and dangerous position that you have to take to farm as melee.
: I'd rather deal with a teemo than something that I see for a split second than die to it because duskblade is a thing. Oh yeah Can't outrun it either. he just yomuus and ult directly onto the bully target until the adc has enough of it and leaves the match entirely
> [{quoted}](name=MaxDarkwill,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fovZwNLE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-02-24T07:15:25.449+0000) > > I'd rather deal with a teemo than something that I see for a split second than die to it because duskblade is a thing. Oh yeah Can't outrun it either. he just yomuus and ult directly onto the bully target until the adc has enough of it and leaves the match entirely Imo duskblade and lethality items in general scale bad with rengar because he lacks of base damage. Instead {{item:3087}} gives you more mobility and a burst/split damage that isn't countered by tabi and , moreover, crit items scale for definition(even crit soraka can kill squishy in 3 auto)
Cryo00 (NA)
: I kinda feel like the old one (AOE Q) had more counterplay, cause the Q requires like 0.5-1.0 seconds to actually do the damage. The new one just clicks on you and you die before you can do anything. So....idk.
> [{quoted}](name=Cryo00,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Lg41RAjA,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2018-02-24T09:31:56.548+0000) > > I kinda feel like the old one (AOE Q) had more counterplay, cause the Q requires like 0.5-1.0 seconds to actually do the damage. The new one just clicks on you and you die before you can do anything. So....idk. Assassins need a secure font of damage, because they are fighting against champs like {{champion:498}} {{champion:67}} that are faster, safier and got more mobility and utility than rengar. You also have to fight against {{champion:40}} {{champion:117}} that can cc/peel you without any delay. If you have all your damage in a long animation that is also a skillshot, you basically care nothing You can't ask for counterplay on assassin's damage if what you are fighting doesn't have it (point and click 700 k crits, point click 2 sec polymorph, point and click shield that give y ad and make your life steal stronger for this, click to be untargetable even if you are snared+ aoe snare, stopwatch...the list of adc's and support's things Without a counterplay is very long)
Uhh Sure (NA)
: Rengar Winrate Patch 8.4
I think he is fine. Lethality items scale in a bad way because he lacks of base damage, but his late game is a nightmare if you aren't vayne/lulu/janna or {{champion:498}} . So it's fine. Moreover you have to considerate a lot of people are using it thinking he is a monster, omg oneshot....experienced players are winning 57% of the times.
GripaAviara (EUNE)
: 1250 1 Q damage with 3 items = jungle AD item, infinity and a critical atts item Tell me what champ can do that with those 3 items in 1 spell that is not even ulti and has a low cooldown
> [{quoted}](name=GripaAviara,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nNc65uYF,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2018-02-23T23:24:38.134+0000) > > 1250 1 Q damage with 3 items = jungle AD item, infinity and a critical atts item > > Tell me what champ can do that with those 3 items in 1 spell that is not even ulti and has a low cooldown every adc can do it in 2 autos and from a safe range.
AD Yuumi (NA)
: Rengar changes bugs and feedback thread.
Guys pls leave constructive comments. If Renga is too strong explain why. From my point of view, the damage, specially early game, seems ok (you lose a 1v1 vs lee) and you still got some form of Hyperscaling late thanks to crit items.
5050BS (NA)
: Ban or Pick any team that has him wins. Its that stupid.
> [{quoted}](name=LordTulkus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k6plgqEA,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-02-22T03:12:35.465+0000) > > Ban or Pick any team that has him wins. Its that stupid. Which is the problem for you?
: > [{quoted}](name=Hópe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gao5gcEI,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-02-03T02:52:33.001+0000) > > In top lane if i pick Quinn Shen Maokai and select others I promise you i will make an impact in the game. Just because you suck doesnt mean i do. Yeah good luck solo killing their fed adc with a frontline when all you can do is lock people down while you get dwindled down due to the ridiculous damage in the game now. We've gotten to the point where malz can ult a hyper tank and a team can burst them down. Adc mains I swear. They've remained the most important role for years and are the only role that is one class all the time and is absolutely required and they still complain. You've got iboy literally doing 50 percent of his teams damage on Caitlyn in their last lpl game an adc most adc players even cry about being weak. Absolutely ridiculous.
> [{quoted}](name=vgamedude,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gao5gcEI,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2018-02-03T02:58:29.869+0000) > > Yeah good luck solo killing their fed adc with a frontline when all you can do is lock people down while you get dwindled down due to the ridiculous damage in the game now. We've gotten to the point where malz can ult a hyper tank and a team can burst them down. > > Adc mains I swear. They've remained the most important role for years and are the only role that is one class all the time and is absolutely required and they still complain. You've got iboy literally doing 50 percent of his teams damage on Caitlyn in their last lpl game an adc most adc players even cry about being weak. > > Absolutely ridiculous. I completely agree
Bârd (NA)
: Zoe needs one change
She needs bigger boobs ....SARCASM....
Mcemc (EUW)
: Proposal to remake Mecha Rengar recall
http://images.goodsmile.info/cgm/images/product/20131127/4139/27239/large/e5a59741458b51fab09b171792b3b436.jpg So many possibilities...
Rioter Comments
PixelzGr (EUNE)
: New Rengar and Graves skin
Of course this was too hard http://images.goodsmile.info/cgm/images/product/20131127/4139/27239/large/e5a59741458b51fab09b171792b3b436.jpg
Seen (NA)
: New Xin feels awful to play
Exactly the same thing that I feel with Rengar. This sweep thing isn't cool, is perfect for counterplay, but it's not viable in a game where 3/4 of your targets have a way to repositionate. It's ok on a tank like Seju, but It's not on dive/assassin champ.
: There is a good reason why AD are crowding out AP champions in mid lane
Then, You Know, Mages have death time between cds, adc don't, but they got also more burst.
: Who are your favorite assassins?
Mine is {{champion:107}} from S3...... {{item:3070}}
: Twitch needs an attack speed growth nerf and his stealth duration reduced by 2 seconds at all ranks
detection range changed from 500 to 600 in order to give counterplay (base aa range is 550)
: Do Xin Zhao's new animations bother anyone else?
It's just another rengar's q and ,You know, rengar's q is shit.
: With Xin Zhao reworked W being a Rengar Q, PLEASE, PLEASE
You know, there is sense in sweeping with a spear There is sense in sweeping with an hummer with a chain ({{champion:113}} 's weapon) I can't find the sense in sweeping with a knife Rengar's q is ugly in animation and concept and now it isn't even in unique(like old q used to be even if with an easier concept)
Rioter Comments
: Rotating Game Mode Idea: League of Legacy
I really want to play Rengar just released again , I miss him so much. Or even Ap yi, he was so relaxing
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 18
Adc are outperforming the other classes through the ability to stack life steal and damage that allows them not to pay for many positioning errors and not to play with their team (they do not need it). The life steal should be unique passive common to all objects.
kargish (EUW)
: It's absurd that RIot has allowed this to happen for so long. Rengar suffers while Twitch is around.
Twitch lacks of counterplay. He will always have the advantage of first auto thanks to his detection range and extra auto's range. Rengar's r is just a joke. One of the worst of the game. Too many times is better avoid to use it to keep the surprise effect.
: Rengar can 100 to 0 you from level 6 with 1 full item. Twitch needs at least 3 or 4 items. So hum, if you add that fact into the mix, that's suddenly much more fair.
> Rengar can 100 to 0 you from level 6 with 1 full item. this isn't true
: You pointed out the difference yourself: fat burst _in late game_. So many people complain that Twitch is a better assassin than any other assassin in the roster, but they often forget that these other assassins can start assassinating people way earlier. Look at Talon. That guy has the highest first blood rate in the entire game. His damages are high even early in the game and he can kill targets snowballing. For Twitch to really assassinate someone himself, he needs a pretty big amount of items. He can't pull that as early as true assassins.
> For Twitch to really assassinate someone himself, he needs a pretty big amount of items. He can't pull that as early as true assassins. rengar's q at lv 1 does 45 damage......this good early like a true assassin
Skorch (NA)
: I have 1 Gripe with this comparison. They have to be taken at face value on balance versions. Basically, for the abilities to be compared Rengar is an assassin for the comparison since its what he was designed for, and twitch is balanced for the comparison and Twitch is slightly overtuned right now. SO with that in mind. Assassins kill potential are usually mostly tied to their ultimate cooldowns, this is so that they cant 100-0 you with EVERY rotation of spells. And ADCs usually have some sort of reposition or movement ability to help them survive. With that in mind the comparison becomes a bit fairer. Rengar is SUPPOSED to be able to 100-0 you when he has ult, while twitch is SUPPOSED to use it to sneak up on people in duels/help him escape/etc, he ISNT SUPPOSED to be able to kill your team in 3 autos. Thats a balance issue not an ability issue. So with all that in mind the abilities are, while similar, slightly more balanced since you are comparing an ADC to an Assassin.
> [{quoted}](name=Skorch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lXYnMFVn,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-06-13T08:02:20.532+0000) > > I have 1 Gripe with this comparison. They have to be taken at face value on balance versions. Basically, for the abilities to be compared Rengar is an assassin for the comparison since its what he was designed for, and twitch is balanced for the comparison and Twitch is slightly overtuned right now. SO with that in mind. > > Assassins kill potential are usually mostly tied to their ultimate cooldowns, this is so that they cant 100-0 you with EVERY rotation of spells. And ADCs usually have some sort of reposition or movement ability to help them survive. With that in mind the comparison becomes a bit fairer. Rengar is SUPPOSED to be able to 100-0 you when he has ult, while twitch is SUPPOSED to use it to sneak up on people in duels/help him escape/etc, he ISNT SUPPOSED to be able to kill your team in 3 autos. Thats a balance issue not an ability issue. > > So with all that in mind the abilities are, while similar, slightly more balanced since you are comparing an ADC to an Assassin. The problem is that Twitch turns out to be a better assassin then rengar is even for the reliability of his damage: you can not use flash to dodge twitch's aa, but you can just dash out rengar's q and rengar has to go in
: > [{quoted}](name=Inquisitor Kane,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=30kJwF2L,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-05-24T18:56:49.528+0000) > > And Diana who is AP assassin is Diver too, while Fizz and Ekko are assassins :-D If you can get back out you are an assassin, if you are trapped you are a diver.
> [{quoted}](name=Binxy Prime,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=30kJwF2L,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2017-05-24T19:42:02.770+0000) > > If you can get back out you are an assassin, if you are trapped you are a diver. Sure back out {{champion:56}} {{champion:24}} these are still assassin for Riot.
FKLANA (EUNE)
: Riot was asked "Is Rengar going to remain an assassin or a bruiser/skirmisher after the rework?"
{{champion:114}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:56}} these guys are considered more assassin then {{champion:107}} .......no guys, I'm out.
: Man, I hate that Riot just ruins champions like this without any regard for that champion's player base. I can't speak on actual statistics, but from my own experience Rengar has been picked consistently less and less ever since his rework. Before the rework, Rengar was a semi-common pick that I saw quite often. But now, I see a Rengar like once every 2-3 months. It feels like hardly anybody plays this champion anymore. How is that a success? They legit just dumpster so many champions like they did to Azir that it's not even funny. Maybe if Rengar's pre-rework state didn't have to be dumpstered by the balance team, maybe that's a sign that it was a more healthy playstyle for the game.
> [{quoted}](name=Blakiepug,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QvccgZ5U,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2017-05-25T15:03:55.085+0000) > > Man, I hate that Riot just ruins champions like this without any regard for that champion's player base. I can't speak on actual statistics, but from my own experience Rengar has been picked consistently less and less ever since his rework. Before the rework, Rengar was a semi-common pick that I saw quite often. But now, I see a Rengar like once every 2-3 months. It feels like hardly anybody plays this champion anymore. How is that a success? They legit just dumpster so many champions like they did to Azir that it's not even funny. Maybe if Rengar's pre-rework state didn't have to be dumpstered by the balance team, maybe that's a sign that it was a more healthy playstyle for the game. If you see Rengar a common pick again with this kit, it's because they buffed his number to be idiot-proof and this is a shit design. This is why now rengar appears 1 every 1-3 months. He isn't fun and his numbers aren't so good after 5 or more nerf in a raw.
: 1 armor item would fuck old Rengar up and he had to be ahead to oneshot you. He had no cleanse and no AOE damage. Now, you basically oneshot someone if you're even in terms of golds and levels, it even works when a bit behind. And if you're ahead, armor is useless against him. So yeah, old Rengar had more counterplay, sorry for you
> [{quoted}](name=TheThrillOfHunt,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QvccgZ5U,comment-id=00040002,timestamp=2017-05-25T08:39:49.223+0000) > > 1 armor item would fuck old Rengar up and he had to be ahead to oneshot you. He had no cleanse and no AOE damage. > > Now, you basically oneshot someone if you're even in terms of golds and levels, it even works when a bit behind. And if you're ahead, armor is useless against him. So yeah, old Rengar had more counterplay, sorry for you I really don't think oneshot with old rengar would be possible with these 'new' items {{item:3047}} {{item:3102}} {{item:3026}} {{item:3046}} {{item:3812}} {{item:3190}} being so popular
KnifeCat (OCE)
: In response to Stattik, on Rengar
You guys are still playing Rengar and this is what you got. You should stop playing him and let drop his pick rate into oblivion, so maybe the smart Stattik will understand that none likes Rengar gameplay. The problem here is that Rengar is no more an assassin and the problem is not his scaling, but his kit, just look at his ultimate, it is the worst ultimate of the game after pantheon's one.... The main problem is his inconstancy: if the enemy walks toward you during your jump, you are gonna miss your rotation; r is litterally playing against you in a way in which several times is better avoid to use it; w still miss the sense, it's broken but not for an assassin and still I can't understand why I should waste it if I want to do a rotation after going in. I used to play Rengar from the release and I realize that playing him in this state will just make riot fell like everything is good, but it's not. I AM NOT HAPPY WITH RENGAR CHANGE (expecially q, old one is better) AND I 'LL NOT WASTE OTHER TIME AND MONEY IN THIS GAME. I'm sure many have bought the new rengar's chroma pack, bhe guys, was a mistake....it was like: well rito you are doing good, take my money!.
FKLANA (EUNE)
: So Rengar got bonetooth rework because of dynamic kit changes like increased leap range...
The funny thing is that Rengar's leap went from 600 to 725, kindred from 500 to infinite.
Kadius (OCE)
: How to get in contact with a Rioter to help move Rengar in the right direction?
The things I want from a Rengar's rework are: 1 secure font of damage if I have to jump in the middle of 5 ppl ready to peal and with an high mobile carry (too many time I missed my q just because the enemy dashed, get a m speed boost, or simply walked towards me when I was jumping) 2 don't waste my w to do my job. 3 something that make me feel skilled when I use my r and not a random crit 4 Do not make rengar's r a worse version of twitch's q (warning, range in which you can be seen and clicked)
Rioter Comments
: Riot Please Reconsider/Take an Objective Look at the Rengar Rework
I want just to say that if you have to go in the middle of 5 ppl to do your job: First I don't want to waste my w to gain stacks Second I want a secure font of damage. I can't rely on a .4 sec cast time to try to kill an enemy which is pilled and mobile {{champion:67}} {{champion:51}} {{champion:236}} or on a random crit.
: Except you lose damage by building a tank item, the active scales of health, making it even less slot-effective, and the active has a pretty long CD for Assassins.
> [{quoted}](name=TheHappyReaperz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J8FEM3rk,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-05-02T00:13:13.328+0000) > > Except you lose damage by building a tank item, the active scales of health, making it even less slot-effective, and the active has a pretty long CD for Assassins. You don't understand the point. New item will be something like a new mobile zhonyas: go in, full rotation, item ability to tank and still deal little damage without wasting your skills, 4 sec and go with another rotation. This will happen expecially with fizz
: @Fizz Enthusiast , Sorry I got into a game right as this was posted so I'm getting to it 45 minutes late (Probably an hour by the time I'm done posting). Thank you. I was figuring he would get hit with the nerf bat too hard. I'll link my original post: [Here](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/Y5wTqAQw-meddler-andor-heimerdinger-team-for-710) Where I talk about what can be done. I made a Heimerdinger guide over a year ago that's still strong and the best for him. Give it a read to see my thoughts on him in laning. [Here](http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/s6-14-top-mid-heimerdinger-the-revered-inventor-of-lp-70-469381) Initial impressions is it looks like it's a **LEAP** in the right direction. A lot of what I mentioned to shift some power is incorporated (Lower Turret Recharge, Lower CDR on W/E while adding some damage). I had an 80% win rate last season from P5 -> D3 with 200~ games as Heimer. That number fell to 65% and ending of D5. > Heimer is generally more performant the lower MMR you go (or worse the higher you go), meaning that when Heimer is "viable" in higher MMR's, he will > usually be absolutely destroying lower MMR. > In this sense, it is desirable to inject some skill into his kit to allow him to be more viable in higher MMR without breaking lower MMR. That's the reason I stated my Win %'s. Heimer is strong in the right hands. I understand wanting to make him easier for people. Now I'll discuss the changes: > Passive: Hextech Affinity (P) > Moves 20% faster around turrets (SR turrets and his own turrets) - 300 range. This will piggy back into the Turrets but some of the power (in terms of how much to be shifted to each ability) that Heimerdinger had was that he healed his turrets when around them. Turret health is low early and will die to random minion attacks. (I think the Minion AI needs to be looked at as they will sometimes target the turret over creeps). > Turrets > Base damage down with double the AP scaling late game. > 3 Charges at all ranks and a 20 second recharge rage > Beam attack tripled+ (but abilities will have recharge on beams I see this as a good enough approach. I personally would like to have the bonus (50%) damage that melees get to the turrets removed if they are going to have the damage cut in half. Heimerdinger won't be building a lot of AP early at all. (Even mid lane he has to go Rylai's first or Morello). With their damage effectively neutered until you get 3+ items I would like them to live a little bit longer (they already die fast if people actually attack them, **ESPECIALLY** early). I don't see any mention of the beam damage? With the beam attack being increased and you having to rely on hitting spells to charge it (because that's pretty much the gist of the matter there), is the beam damage being increased or staying the same? Would it be possible to have a faster cooldown on his turrets? Since we are staying with that as his core/theme then I feel that a 20 sec recharge (12 sec with 40% cdr, which you would probably never do) is still high for late game. I'd like to see an 8 sec (with 40% cdr) late game recharge rate. The main thing being even an 800 health turret dies REALLY fast late game and not being able to use them neuters you, ESPECIALLY if you are behind. > Rockets > Mana down, scaling CDR > Charges 20% of nearby turrets You have 5 rockets that come out. (Each additional is 20% of the first). What happens if the beam is at 80% charge, and all 5 rockets hit? Will it now be at 80% again? (100 ->20% ->40%->60%->80%) What if it **JUST** fires? Will it immediately fire a second? Are all 5 rockets coding seperately so that I will not lose a 20% charge on a point blank rocket? I like the rocket change, the scaling and mana cost really gives him poke for mid lane again and MIGHT make him competitive to meta champs (Mind you take a look at that post because he still has a lot of hard counters for turret gameplay). Being able to only put one point into Q for 3 charges and work around my W/E is very nice and opens up more playstyles. > Grenade > Hitbox increased slightly > Flat 12sec instead of 18 > Full beam charge on champion Is the hitbox increasing the slow/aoe? Is it a STUN charges turrets to full beam? I think you could probably make it so that a STUN charges all beams rather than the AOE. The aoe is rather simple to hit and seems like it would be too strong. > Upgrade!!!! > Lots of talk I'll just discuss. So I think one of the misconceptions everyone is having is that the H-28Q Apex Turret (The UPGRADE!!! R/Q) is stronger/used more than it is. Pretty much the only time I use R/Q is like this: - Still in laning phase and drop to have a 4th turret/slow/damage during a jungle gank 1v2 - Dropping to harass/take first turret - When Canon minion is taking turret aggro, drop so it last longer, zones and does damage. - Doing baron at 20 minutes - Tanks aggro and does a lot of early damage so 3 turrets + me and another can duo it. - Solo'ing Elder Once I am out of laning phase I very VERY rarely drop my ultimate turret. It dies to smite + a couple of attacks. It can be moved (Sion E, Syndra E). Rocket damage should NOT be increased. If anything a very minor drop off in damage would work for it. If enemy has no MR a stun + RW will kill most carries. > Big Grenade I separated this because I feel it should be talked about more. Increasing the damage and the aoe is BAD. I personally really love it but it will be overtuned. I pretty much engage/disengage all fights after laning with my ultimate grenade. It's what makes him shine in team fights. (Kiting through Heimer turrets isn't beneficial late game in higher ELO because they die super easy and are outranged by ranged ADCs). While it is true it consumes your E cooldown it SHOULD. It's an AOE slow + stun. I feel that probably 50% of Heimerdinger power and 80% of his teamfighting late game is R/E. You can Slow + stun someone with your ultimate grenade. Adding more AP ratio makes it stupidly strong. I think the base damage increase is fine but if everything else stays then the AP ratio can NOT be increased by that much.
> > While it is true it consumes your E cooldown it SHOULD. It's an AOE slow + stun. I feel that probably 50% of Heimerdinger power and 80% of his teamfighting late game is R/E. You can Slow + stun someone with your ultimate grenade. Adding more AP ratio makes it stupidly strong. > > I think the base damage increase is fine but if everything else stays then the AP ratio can NOT be increased by that Much Upvoted for this reason: riot keeps making the same mistake over and over again: big damago on aoe plus CC IS THE WORST THINK YOU CAN MAKE for heimer's balance and skill cap. If you want to raise his skillcap you should not make him a RE bot late game( no matter what I'm going to deal 1k aoe plus high slow or stun). Instead make easier to understand where the enemy will be stunned for the following bounce after the first one, making something like Zac's e landing indicator and maybe increase the spell utility introducing a fast blind effect (0.50--0.70)on player like quinn's q if you are watching in heimer direction ( a flashbang) or simply increase the duration/stun range/ number of bounces
KnifeCat (OCE)
: Rengar's ult should be renamed "Thrill of the zoning"
I really can't find an ultimate worse then Rengar's r. Maybe panth's r......fellsadman It's not even a camu%%%e, twitch's one it is, but Rengar can easily been seen even 2 sec before jump and he has the stupid 4k range warning indicator. Without the crit, which is really random and super hard to hit in teamfight with all dashing supports, will be worse then kha's e. Moreover, god bless w....if you want to do your job, you have to waste your w in order to get stacks. WELL DESIGNED! Land an qq combo against a carry with a dash, it's just inconsistent. But damage is high so bruiser Rengar can successfully engage even without killing the adc
Rengooo (OCE)
: What you say is quite true, but went completely unnoticed by Riot when they were reworking him. They essentially fixed some problems but made a whole lot of new ones by giving him even more tools, just to try and preserve the assassin in him. I really don't think hes in any better of a spot now than he was pre-rework, and in the process of reworking him his kit changes have tilted 90% of Rengar mains because they are so wildly different (and feel horrible to use / clunky). Personally I think they should just revert his rework and put a few measures in place to prevent his abusable aspects (e.g. making it so his Q can't crit which was a alot of where the one shot issues were coming from), and leave him like that until they are ready to rework him again. This would at least please a lot of Rengar mains, in stead of leaving him in his current state until they rework him again, which I think they will because he still has far to many broken aspects to his play (see all his nerfs post rework as evidence).
> [{quoted}](name=AesirIV,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kBUuoc5H,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2017-04-23T07:44:16.475+0000) > > What you say is quite true, but went completely unnoticed by Riot when they were reworking him. > > They essentially fixed some problems but made a whole lot of new ones by giving him even more tools, just to try and preserve the assassin in him. > > I really don't think hes in any better of a spot now than he was pre-rework, and in the process of reworking him his kit changes have tilted 90% of Rengar mains because they are so wildly different (and feel horrible to use / clunky). > > Personally I think they should just revert his rework and put a few measures in place to prevent his abusable aspects (e.g. making it so his Q can't crit which was a alot of where the one shot issues were coming from), and leave him like that until they are ready to rework him again. > > This would at least please a lot of Rengar mains, in stead of leaving him in his current state until they rework him again, which I think they will because he still has far to many broken aspects to his play (see all his nerfs post rework as evidence). Old q never critted, just the aa portion that could do that
: Rengar doesn't really fit the Assassin "meta" that Riot is going for, with delayed damage. He also doesn't really fit thematically with being an Assassin. Rengar, was, and still is, too a degree, about jumping in, out of stealth, and inst-gibbing a carry as fast as possible. Which is unhealthy. Its no fun for a carry to be deleted without any time to react, and its no fun for Rengar players to be shutdown half of their games, to allow for the games were they can insta-gib squishies. That resulted in Riot trying to delay Rengar's damage, by making his Q no longer instant. However, that really was just broken, especially with the buffs Bone-tooth gave. Realizing that slowing his burst, but giving him more damage wasn't healthy, Riot nerfed him. Still, he wasn't fair to play against. Part of that, is his kit. Rengar has no escapes in his kit, its all about diving in. He also has hard CC, something you don't see normally in Assassins. Leblanc is the only real exception, but she is half-mage, so that makes up for that. Thematically, Rengar has some bad fits. For example, his old passive. It used to be that you could stack it off killing the same person over and over again, which Riot changed, partly because, it just didn't feel like you were a hunter searching for the strongest prey. You were more just beating up the weakest link, over and over again. Then there is the Assassin play-style with hunters. It can be argued that hunters are stealthy while taking down prey, but the dip in, dip out, is not how hunters work. It is much more thematically fitting for Rengar to be a Diver, than an Assassin. To summarize, Rengar's current kit and thematic don't fit the Assassin role. He will likely never be balanced as an Assassin, and it is pretty likely Riot will either rework him to be a better Assassin, add an actual escape, remove the CC, or up his base stats, change his damage a tad, and make him a Diver.
> [{quoted}](name=TheHappyReaperz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kBUuoc5H,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-04-23T06:07:38.885+0000) > > Rengar doesn't really fit the Assassin "meta" that Riot is going for, with delayed damage. He also doesn't really fit thematically with being an Assassin. > > Rengar, was, and still is, too a degree, about jumping in, out of stealth, and inst-gibbing a carry as fast as possible. Which is unhealthy. Its no fun for a carry to be deleted without any time to react, and its no fun for Rengar players to be shutdown half of their games, to allow for the games were they can insta-gib squishies. That resulted in Riot trying to delay Rengar's damage, by making his Q no longer instant. However, that really was just broken, especially with the buffs Bone-tooth gave. Realizing that slowing his burst, but giving him more damage wasn't healthy, Riot nerfed him. Still, he wasn't fair to play against. Part of that, is his kit. Rengar has no escapes in his kit, its all about diving in. He also has hard CC, something you don't see normally in Assassins. Leblanc is the only real exception, but she is half-mage, so that makes up for that. > > Thematically, Rengar has some bad fits. For example, his old passive. It used to be that you could stack it off killing the same person over and over again, which Riot changed, partly because, it just didn't feel like you were a hunter searching for the strongest prey. You were more just beating up the weakest link, over and over again. Then there is the Assassin play-style with hunters. It can be argued that hunters are stealthy while taking down prey, but the dip in, dip out, is not how hunters work. It is much more thematically fitting for Rengar to be a Diver, than an Assassin. > > To summarize, Rengar's current kit and thematic don't fit the Assassin role. He will likely never be balanced as an Assassin, and it is pretty likely Riot will either rework him to be a better Assassin, add an actual escape, remove the CC, or up his base stats, change his damage a tad, and make him a Diver. It's not fun for the carry who builds no defensive items. It's interesting to see that assassins have to build at least 2 defensive items to try to do their job, while a carry can't build a defensive items if he is playing against a class who counter him. You know they changedthe Ga for this reason, so there is no point to keep this delayed burst from a non steath ultimate.
: Rengar still good?
44 damage lv 1 with your base q. Have fun.
kargish (EUW)
: A message from all Rengar mains
I'm just sad. E-sport will destroy this game
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N3mO06

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