Adalvar (EUW)
: WHat about {{champion:141}} ? You said he was on the buff list, but the Shadow Assassin CD buff got removed. Why? It was awesome for S.A. playstyle. What is {{champion:141}} that could possibly make S.A. not a meme champion?
> [{quoted}](name=Adalvar,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=6lzjce20,comment-id=001800000000,timestamp=2019-03-27T17:33:27.932+0000) > > WHat about {{champion:141}} ? You said he was on the buff list, but the Shadow Assassin CD buff got removed. Why? It was awesome for S.A. playstyle. What is {{champion:141}} that could possibly make S.A. not a meme champion? S.A. Kayn memes look like this : S.A. Kayn : *breathes* Mages and Marksmen : *dies* S.A. Kayn rework when? :) It's Rhaast that's the meme now.
: Hey Meddler, … What in the name of the ice queen are THOSE NERFS?! I thought you said it would be targeted at pro play, this will not only ruin her laning phase even more (Stubborn me, playing w/o aftershock) but as you said, also hit her DPS later on. How am I supposed to play Liss now? Randomly go in with aftershock and self-ult combo, hoping that my team can finish everything off?? Are you trying to remove everything that has even a bit of skill expression? By the way, what about the fact that Liss buys corrupting + 2x dseal to sustain through the laning phase (by simply ignoring the enemy laner in combination with AS). I REALLY hope that when aftershock gets nerfed (it is NOT a healthy mechanic on Liss), that my precious ice queen will get some power back (and not the Riot special :^)). Oh, and one small thing I was wondering about, what do you think on the current power state of the passive?
> [{quoted}](name=Ivory Iceborn,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=6lzjce20,comment-id=0016,timestamp=2019-03-27T16:11:36.353+0000) > > Hey Meddler, > > … What in the name of the ice queen are THOSE NERFS?! I thought you said it would be targeted at pro play, this will not only ruin her laning phase even more (Stubborn me, playing w/o aftershock) but as you said, also hit her DPS later on. How am I supposed to play Liss now? Randomly go in with aftershock and self-ult combo, hoping that my team can finish everything off?? Are you trying to remove everything that has even a bit of skill expression? > > By the way, what about the fact that Liss buys corrupting + 2x dseal to sustain through the laning phase (by simply ignoring the enemy laner in combination with AS). > I REALLY hope that when aftershock gets nerfed (it is NOT a healthy mechanic on Liss), that my precious ice queen will get some power back (and not the Riot special :^)). > > Oh, and one small thing I was wondering about, what do you think on the current power state of the passive? Be happy she isn't getting the taliyah treatment. Ignorant fanatics tsk tsk tsk.
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=REFORMEÐ,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=6lzjce20,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2019-03-27T16:09:24.087+0000) > > Hi Meddler, > > Will {{champion:91}} be addressed with TLC sometime soon given the Season 9 changes impact on roaming as well as Tiamat cost increase and W nerf ? > > He is in a strong state and the rework was done really well, however lacks some of the edge and in combat nuance that other assassins have, especially late {{champion:103}} {{champion:238}} {{champion:107}} . Could power be moved around to help with this feel issue? > > Recent challenger streamer comments on the champ state: https://www.reddit.com/r/Talonmains/comments/b34v9m/my_opinion_of_talon_in_season_9_by_a_challenger/ As a champion , an assassin on top of it all, that lanes yet avoids laning ,it makes zero sense for talon to be good post early unless fed. As for everything else you mentioned, should only apply if he loses the ability to escape fights whenever he pleases.
La Bello (NA)
: https://youtu.be/lc5Cd4b5HWg please watch this video. When I look at this and see "50% AS back on shiv, IE being reverted so once again people crit becomes the hardest scaling build in the game" it just SCREAMS "oh shit just revert everything and go back to square one before everyone quits!". stop putting the bulk of Marksman power in auto's (like Crit Damage,pure attack speed items ect) but instead try reworking first the items THEN some marksmen themselves to be more ability reliant and scaling off total power rather than bonus. Give marksmen an effective curve like all other champions instead of having them be irrelevant whenever not fed or at 4+ items while making them much more "counterplay-able" allowing you to put more agency into kits and make them feel better even when behind in the arms race. I honestly dont think "LOOK GUYS WE REVERTED CRIT! MARKSMEN ARE MANDATORY TO EVERY COMP AGAIN OH JOY!!" is going to be good for your game in the long term. Its actually ridiculous that you've even supported this class for so long. I think no other MOBA has a "mandatory" ranged carry enforcement to the degree that League does and thats something you should work on fixing. "carry" options should come in all shapes and sizes. Not just Squishy and Ranged.
> [{quoted}](name=La Bello,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=oA7EoIrf,comment-id=01a5,timestamp=2018-12-23T00:37:28.143+0000) > > https://youtu.be/lc5Cd4b5HWg > > please watch this video. > When I look at this and see "50% AS back on shiv, IE being reverted so once again people crit becomes the hardest scaling build in the game" it just SCREAMS "oh shit just revert everything and go back to square one before everyone quits!". > > stop putting the bulk of Marksman power in auto's (like Crit Damage,pure attack speed items ect) but instead try reworking first the items THEN some marksmen themselves to be more ability reliant and scaling off total power rather than bonus. Give marksmen an effective curve like all other champions instead of having them be irrelevant whenever not fed or at 4+ items while making them much more "counterplay-able" allowing you to put more agency into kits and make them feel better even when behind in the arms race. > > I honestly dont think "LOOK GUYS WE REVERTED CRIT! MARKSMEN ARE MANDATORY TO EVERY COMP AGAIN OH JOY!!" is going to be good for your game in the long term. Its actually ridiculous that you've even supported this class for so long. > I think no other MOBA has a "mandatory" ranged carry enforcement to the degree that League does and thats something you should work on fixing. > > "carry" options should come in all shapes and sizes. Not just Squishy and Ranged. The reason we need marksmen as they are is because we need a class to actually deal with tanks. Their items are way too good and it's because they are designed as massive stat blocks unlike other mobas (HoTS for example) where tanks are tanks with active abilities mostly and less about raw. Shields , Armor buffs, Damage debuffs , CC, etc. Before marksmen get reworked the entire tank class needs a rework maybe minus Ornn. Also how op are tanks? A full MR rammus can solo kill Kai'sa. I as full mr rammus solokilled a kaisa. And not just once. ARAM is a fun place. Nice way to see just how broken tanks are. When you see that you'll beg for adcs to be as they are designed right now.
PhRoXz0n (NA)
: Crit Item Explorations
I am liking the changes however there are 3 I don't feel would be good. The 5k IE , will compare to the following build : {{item:1038}} -> {{item:1037}} ->{{item:3086}} -> {{item:1051}} ->{{item:3031}} , 50% crit, 5.1k gold , 15% AS , 5% ms, much better build path. And it's shit, takes too long to be active. Reverted is better imo. For {{item:3508}} the conditions doesn't seem feasible to trigger when hitting a tank. Which is sorta okey? Also too easy to trigger for Lucian. Doesn't seem like a good first item which would still hurt {{champion:498}} Thou early ult cd buff would be help with that? Would much rather see it as an alternative to IE and share the passive so you only build one , however instead of critical damage have it lower non ultimate abilities cooldowns by 1s? 5%? 10%? (okey 10% might a bit too stronk). maybe to keep it as an alternative bruiser make its crit gain be for ranged only but stronger cooldown reduction for melee. 1 item but two different functions depending on who builds it. Lastly {{item:3095}} , the Stormstrike version is for assassins and Caitlyn. This is an item i would rather have it be an item for AS focused carries like {{champion:96}} or {{champion:145}}
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 31
"Mid lane performance by contrast isn't out of line" ye its dead. cant waveclear , cant harass, cant sustain mana in lane cuz costs are too high across the board. {{item:1056}} is also a dead item. The last few mages in mid will disappear with the timewarp tonic change. {{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}} Glad too see how much you hate carry classes {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
: Yeah I really do not like the Stat shards shown here as it feels like it'll be too linear and focused on min/maxing. If you're going to go that route you need to give more options for damage dealers to pick from besides a single row of piss poor damage choices, and hot garbage for defensive choices. The current setup has an obvious downside but you aren't really fixing that, this only gives the illusion of choice for most champs and roles when in reality you will be even more restricted in terms of choice. The fact that picking Precision runes grants AA speed and switching to say Dark Harvest forces you to adjust to having higher AD but lower AS really feels like a good interaction to me, and I think you should sharpen this instead of going for a watered down version that will basically never change, you tried that already and Runes Reforged was supposed to be the answer, please do not go around in circles with this. You put the system in place and it seems really strange to me that you would only use it for a year and then take a step backwards for the next season as opposed to using the preseason to try and improve the current system that already offers meaningful choices; its just that those meaningful choices sometimes feel bad for particular classes particularly tanks and often new players don't like the idea of being forced to choose or fully understand the power of choice in a system like Runes. Is taking the choice away by forcing us back into running particular setups all the damn time that never change really the right choice? or wouldn't it be a better idea to try and sharpen the current identity of Runes and improve the impact of choices? Stat shards could be really nice in addition to the current system if you reduced the numbers from Runes and allowed for champs to double down or spread out a bit which would add a layer of choice and creativity as opposed to taking one away as is currently proposed.
> [{quoted}](name=Hungry Cancer,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=NPBRPjqf,comment-id=002c,timestamp=2018-10-23T19:05:15.896+0000) > > Yeah I really do not like the Stat shards shown here as it feels like it'll be too linear and focused on min/maxing. If you're going to go that route you need to give more options for damage dealers to pick from besides a single row of piss poor damage choices. > The current setup has an obvious downside but you aren't really fixing that, this only gives the illusion of choice for most champs and roles when in reality you will be even more restricted in terms of choice. > The fact that picking Precision runes grants AA speed and switching to say Dark Harvest forces you to adjust to having higher AD but lower AS really feels like a good interaction to me, and I think you should sharpen this instead of going for a watered down version that will basically never change, you tried that already and Runes Reforged was supposed to be the answer, please do not go around in circles with this. You put the system in place and it seems really strange to me that you would only use it for a year and then take a step backwards for the next season as opposed to using the preseason to try and improve the current system that already offers meaningful choices; its just that those meaningful choices sometimes feel bad for particular classes particularly tanks and often new players don't like the idea of being forced to choose or fully understand the power of choice in a system like Runes. > Is taking the choice away by forcing us back into running particular setups all the damn time that never change really the right choice? or wouldn't it be a better idea to try and sharpen the current identity of Runes and improve the impact of choices? > Stat shards could be really nice in addition to the current system if you reduced the numbers from Runes and allowed for champs to double down or spread out a bit which would add a layer of choice and creativity as opposed to taking one away as is currently proposed. Take defensive stat shards in hard match ups and offensive in easy??? If you are an adc ,say xayah ,into lucian (a particularly hard matchup) taking 10 armor(twice armor shard) would go a really long way than being forced into ad and as you can already outscale him
: Hey, any chance Vik might receive nerfs? He's currently 53% in top with almost 7% pickrate. http://na.op.gg/champion/viktor/statistics/top If you (doesn't have to be all of these, but they are in order of importance) remove the mana ratio from Q, revert the recent buff to his Ms buff on upgraded Q, lower the base damage on Q (lazer auto), and maybe up the mana cost it might send him back to midlane where he belongs, then can buff him for his midlane play (or dont and wait till he just becomes meta in the right way, instead of this current abomination). The cost lowering for his first upgrade was a buff to his mid, but the enabler to make his toplane play strong along with other buffs he got. I don't want the cost stuff to be reverted, but his Q needs to be peppered with nerfs to make it not an insta win in toplane.
> [{quoted}](name=Balterein,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=YbIFe8YL,comment-id=0064,timestamp=2018-10-19T14:57:42.081+0000) > > Hey, any chance Vik might receive nerfs? He's currently 53% in top with almost 7% pickrate. http://na.op.gg/champion/viktor/statistics/top > If you (doesn't have to be all of these, but they are in order of importance) remove the mana ratio from Q, revert the recent buff to his Ms buff on upgraded Q, lower the base damage on Q (lazer auto), and maybe up the mana cost it might send him back to midlane where he belongs, then can buff him for his midlane play (or dont and wait till he just becomes meta in the right way, instead of this current abomination). > The cost lowering for his first upgrade was a buff to his mid, but the enabler to make his toplane play strong along with other buffs he got. I don't want the cost stuff to be reverted, but his Q needs to be peppered with nerfs to make it not an insta win in toplane. make vik mid better and he'll leave toplane on his own. AKA gut all the antimages in mid aka all the assassins, irelia and kass.
FéliXXX (EUW)
: so you wont add lethality runes okay but then champs that are alerady bad like zed would be even worse so would you change them or their items? if so pls stop buffing zeds ult that ability is so ez to counter lower his w cd and/or gove him back his base dmg on w maybe lower than it was back then eventough that doesnt fix all the issues of the champ maybe he will be at least decent for those players on high elo(there is a lot of high elo players that like the champ but cant rly play him or they will suffer like laceration llstylish zedrinos or best zed kr)
> [{quoted}](name=FéliXXX,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=YbIFe8YL,comment-id=005e,timestamp=2018-10-19T01:57:25.936+0000) > > so you wont add lethality runes okay but then champs that are alerady bad like zed would be even worse so would you change them or their items? if so pls stop buffing zeds ult that ability is so ez to counter lower his w cd and/or gove him back his base dmg on w maybe lower than it was back then eventough that doesnt fix all the issues of the champ maybe he will be at least decent for those players on high elo(there is a lot of high elo players that like the champ but cant rly play him or they will suffer like laceration llstylish zedrinos or best zed kr) If Riot buffs any AD assassin it's like giving their kid cancer. Buffing AP assassins is like giving their kid AIDS. The class is simply way too unhealthy as nobody enjoys playing vs or with it. Only as.
Meddler (NA)
: Potentially, It's on our list of items that aren't in great states, as with Rageblade/Edge of Night it's something we're planning to look at, but wouldn't want to make any promises beyond that yet. As a side note this version of Essence Reaver was designed to be good for fighters as well as marksmen. Even on fighters like the ones you list though we're not really seeing it perform all that strongly. It's a reasonable choice at times, and will feel very strong when it really pops off, but doesn't seem to be out of line with other items they could be choosing instead on average.
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=YbIFe8YL,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2018-10-17T16:18:55.649+0000) > > Potentially, It's on our list of items that aren't in great states, as with Rageblade/Edge of Night it's something we're planning to look at, but wouldn't want to make any promises beyond that yet. > > As a side note this version of Essence Reaver was designed to be good for fighters as well as marksmen. Even on fighters like the ones you list though we're not really seeing it perform all that strongly. It's a reasonable choice at times, and will feel very strong when it really pops off, but doesn't seem to be out of line with other items they could be choosing instead on average. Yet it's a dead item for marksmen. {{item:3070}} {{champion:498}}
: > [{quoted}](name=Nascy,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=k0OgvRkx,comment-id=0039,timestamp=2018-10-10T17:52:44.615+0000) > > And when will 16 out of the 19 adcs stop having negative winrates in soloQ plat+? When supports stop trolling with unconventional picks and actually protect their adc. Also ad carries are not easy to play, it takes a decent amount of skill which players obviously have the lack of.
> [{quoted}](name=The Cane Master,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=k0OgvRkx,comment-id=00390000,timestamp=2018-10-11T01:53:35.970+0000) > > When supports stop trolling When the moon turns green , the sun rises from the west and NA wins worlds , then and only then supports will stop trolling. {{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}}
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 10
Until at least 10% crit is added back to Essence Reaver it will remain a useless item unless you make it so ludircously cheap it becomes a must buy for everyone. So questions. When are Essence Reaver and Stormrazor becoming ranged exclusives? Especially for Stormrazor. And when will 16 out of the 19 adcs stop having negative winrates in soloQ plat+? If you want mages in as bot carries shouldn't you balance them so adcs dont feel completly useless in laning phase? Heimer is already a zero interaction laner but in bot two laners are getting utterly bored instead of one. Swain and Vladimir sustain makes them impossible to ever kick out of lane. Almost forgot but when is Kassadin getting nerfed to the void? Playing singleplayer invincable farming simulator post 6 (post 1 if vs a mage) until 16 then decimate the enemy team isn't exactly entertaining for 9 of the players in that game. Probably not for the 10th either tbh but they are getting a win so I doubt they care.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: September 26
No dark harvest nerfs. No Essence Reaver revert. Midlaners still haven't gotten their better soloQ Taliyah yet. Xayah still a glorified cannon minion without Rakan. One item with ad crit cdr and mana is all she needs. Mages early game mana is still so bad talon is meta in sq. Seems like pretty disappoiting patch yet again. 12 in a row. Are you going for a record or something?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: September 12
Why are champions like kassadin , vlad and le blanc allowed to continue with their disgusting kits? And dont you think you've overbuffed kassadin when some talon players have started banning him? Will xayah ever get her essence reaver back so xayah players without a duo partner can play her reliably?
: Preseason Development Update 1
Everything seems fine but the earlier spawn times , don't really seem that alright. Minions first spawn at 0:35 , reach midlane at 0:57 and sidelanes 1:07. Anyone loading slightly slower or going afk for a minute while loading and missing the actual start of the game would actually get punished. Plus less mindgames of checking "Are they invading?" And also less opportunities to the invading team to screw up and accidentally get seen. Edit: On the bounty part I am really fond of the idea of objective based bounties. I assume they'll just increase the bounty for killing any one champion. However the decrease in bounty per champion might make farm lanes more preferable as less minions will be required to earn the same gold
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 29
Where is the Talon nerf? Q range reduced and lowered scalings so he gets punished if he rushes tiamat over lethality. Where is the leblanc nerf? 0.15s 100-0 aren't fun. Where is the fizz nerf? When are you going to make regular play midlane fun again by purging out all the assassins from there? When will you realize that every time assassins or tanks are strong people get more and more toxic? And lastly. When will tanks stop dealing so much damage? Getting 100-0 by a full tank sion in a never ending cc chain isn't exactly fun. The entire class dps per tougness is retardedly high. Or the malphite oneshots.
: Trundle doesn't need more nerfs... at least in SQ. Maybe entice him to build AD even more? He's already barely worth picking in SQ at any level. His Q got a massive nerf, Celerity got a nerf and he was among the biggest beneficiaries etc. I'm not sure any of those champions really need nerfs (definitely not in SQ) and perhaps pro teams just aren't experimenting enough. Gnar I can sort of see being an issue though. Keep in mind how often Worlds totally changes the meta once teams show up with new strategies and picks. "A diverse meta's good, but not as important as interesting matches (better low diversity and exciting games than high diversity and slow, uneventful play repeatedly)" I think it's important to realize that this is a twisted argument in favor of willfully unbalancing the game for the sake of an event. It's this sort of thinking that leaves champions dumpstered for months on end while others are perennially dominant or quickly brought back to snuff when they languish. This is a justification for blatant favoritism. I think the priority should always be objective balance and fair games. A good custodian of a game should hold gameplay quality and fairness above monetary interests for skins or more "exciting" matches. Those are external things which have nothing to do with game balance and yet here Riot is actually suggesting that it's OK to distort balance to make games more like they want. This is not a neutral mindset. I don't like this at all. It shows a wishy washy philosophy of balance with no overriding principles or objectivity. It's hard to trust a company when players see this and as a result, it's also harder to invest time in a game where you can't trust balance is being done in a completely impartial way. This is disappointing and worrying. Don't think people didn't already notice that the champions in the tutorial have been buffed to be above average... Ahri, Sion, Lux, Yi... doesn't seem like a coincidence. These sorts of arguments, as well as some Phreak made such as "it's OK to overtune a new champion because most players won't be good at them" are the death of a competitive game. Trust is erased extremely fast with such thinking. Just imagine someone playing a new champ on the PBE a lot because they know it'll be freelo and overbuffed quite soon. How is that not distorting the ladder? You have to have clear balance principles and make a commitment not to let balance decisions be swayed by money or other tangential factors (at least if you care about your game's longevity and the respect it garners).
Think about it in terms of gladiator fights. Would you rather watch two people with shields and spears poking at each other until one of them dies or a halberd user vs a dagger and a shortsword.
: But gnar has a 46 % winrate already... (ik pros can play him god like. But still)
Pre 8.8 tali was rocking a 47~48% wr
Meddler (NA)
: "Mid lane - While it would be cool to see Zed we don't have the room to buff him in regular play. " Or, to rephrase if unclear. No, no Zed buffs, even though it would be nice as a viewer to see him in Worlds.
It would NOT be nice to see him as a viewer in Worlds. Why? Because that means he'll see rise in regular play and if there is anything gameplay wise that increases toxicity ,it's assassins. The class needs to die. And so do tanks.

Nascy

Level 211 (EUW)
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