Tomoe Gozen (EUNE)
: >A lot of his problems is in his itemisation. He has none aside from going full AP Let's first define what a Juggernaut and Skirmisher are. Juggernauts are tough melee champions able to both take and deal big damage but lack the reliable way to gap close to their targets. Skirmishers are duelists who have tools to go into the fray and have sustained damage to last in the battle but lack the high-end damage burst to take down high-priority targets. So they're not assassins but they want to fight anyone who approaches. And they usually have to have some tools to sustain themselves too. "AP Bruiser" itemization is kind of a wide classification. Currently, there are no AP bruiser items in the game. However, you do have items that can serve the same purpose, depending on which stats those tankier, AP melees need. Sylas is never going to become tanky as Morde. And expecting that he'll work with the same items isn't going to work either. RoA isn't an AP bruiser item either since Anivia, Ryze or Annie aren't. They are scaling mages who have to pay a lot of mana for their skills and usually take some damage. Scaling AP champions are not AP bruisers. If we want to preserve Sylas' Skirmisher class, all we have to do is follow the guidelines of what their general dos and don'ts. His passive, in my opinion does need more damage, if he's to fight like one. So Riot giving it a 3rd stack increases the damage he deals but it takes more time to dish it out. They're not pushing more damage in less time, which is a defining trait of assassins. **His Q** gets more damage on the explosion but reduced damage and scaling on the initial hit. Shorter and lesser slow. But this way, it still promotes extended skirmishes to allow the second explosion to happen instead of putting that power into his initial hits. **His W** is an interesting case. That's way more base damage + scaling while base healing has been reduced until level 5 and heal scaling is a bit up. However, under 40% of his HP, he doubles the healing. This is great for a sustain ability but that added massive damage boost makes it a nuke. Again however, the mana cost is doubled on every level so it's freaking expensive. Likely not spammable. **His E** is also pretty strong on a first glance. Damage gets a big boost but he loses the shield entirely. AP scaling 100% with more than doubled base damage and CD reduced by 4 sec on lvl 5. So far, the idea here is that Sylas would build "bruiser-ish" items and that he'll scale pretty well with them. However, what happens if he goes with full AP and starts to instantly kill his targets with this damage?
To say the third charge on passive actually means anything is ridiculous. There is precisely no reason you'd ever use the third stack, with no auto resets they'll expire before you actually clear through three stacks of passive. Giving him a third passive stack is like putting a garnish of parsley on a cow-pat: you're still not going to eat it. Currently his passive does precisely nothing in terms of damage and making it do a bit more wouldn't push him in more of an assassin role, it would just give him a passive that does something. A third stack doesn't help that. The full AP thing is a massive problem. He's balanced as sort-of a bruiser with the rest of the changes (Even if the AA reset and animation cancel removal makes him a lot less fun) but the 100% AP scaling on E2 is confusing and harmful to the rest of his kit.
: They want the gigabusted unbalanced Sylas again that needed changes almost every single patch last season Maybe this change works, maybe it doesn't. But it's worth the try.
No we don't bud. We don't want a 90% scaling full shield and an ult on a 9 second cooldown because that was absurd. Our champion got permabanned and permanerfed and that was awful. We just want him to be a decent, mechanically complex bruiser (basically AP Riven or Camille), like he's actually supposed to be. Not some shitty anti-mage/BTEC Kassadin (like he is now), not a linear assassin that oneshots you by landing E2 (like the PBE changes make him). We just want our champion to be a mechanically complex bruiser, with all the strengths and weaknesses of one. And the existence of champs like Camille, Lee Sin and new Diana prove that isn't hard to do.
Madra (NA)
: 280 + 100% AP scaling. Is Riot serious? And he can heal off of minions? Confirmed: training wheels back on. You may not like these changes, but they seem like pretty inflated numbers.
As a hardcore Sylas player I concur. He's definitely going to be stronger (although on the PBE it doesn't look like he can heal off minions after people are actually testing it), finally in a spot where he's neither broken nor dogshite. But the problem is that rather than being the AP bruiser he should be, his E2 is disgustingly absurdly stupid so he'll oneshot you building full AP while his passive doesn't do anything and his AA resets and animation cancels are gone, reducing his skill floor. If you ask me, they should buff his passive single-target damage and keep the AA resets and animation cancels in his kit but not buff his E damage at all, then he'd be in an ideal spot to balance him around being a bruiser.
: You know I just realize there is no point to this. I mean I want him to be a Bruiser/Skirmisher as much as the next Sylas player but Riot ain't gonna listen. It's not like they go onto the Boards much these days or try to listen to feed back unless maybe it's on a really popular champion. What's the point in voicing discontent when they are gonna do it or not based off of if they feel like it. Not like most of them even play the game let alone Magical All for One.
There might not be a point, but I wanted to add my voice and those of the people I've discussed this with anyway.
: How much is enough guys?
As a die-hard Sylas lover from Day 1, I feel you hard. Sylas has suffered from a fractured identity from the start, and that's only harmed his balance. He has the kit of a bruiser but the play style of an assassin and that's caused so much grief when balancing him. I think that's the case with a lot of these champions: Galio had poorly mixed aspects of a bruiser, tank and mage, Akali had assassin-level burst damage with bruiser-level sustain and cooldowns, Yuumi had the healing of a Soraka and the lane presence of a cannon minion. I feel like Riot's just toying with us Sylas players at this point. Our preference for a bruiser build is well-documented, and yet they keep pushing for various assassin builds that make no sense with his kit and that will be further impossible to balance. Look at his soon-to-be-abandoned and sorely-disliked antimage identity: added on to give him more counterpick potential but just ended up killing the champ stone dead. Look at his current PBE changes as well: who asked for his resets (one of the most classic hallmarks of Sylas's gameplay up there with his ultimate) to be removed in favour of the hilariously overtuned 100% AP scaling on E2? Not to mention how awful his passive is... It just feels like Riot's idea of what a champion should be and the players' idea of what it should be couldn't be more different. Just look at what happened to Aurelion Sol!
Rioter Comments
: This seems to be a Galio situation all over again tbh. High base damages, high scalings, and alot of built in defense (the hp changes alone put him at the highest base hp in the game at level 18, a whopping 2480, which was previously held by Galio at 2466). Of course, I don't play sylas and part of the hp increase is probably to counteract the loss of the shield, but those numbers are kinda nuts.
He just totally lacks role identity. He's got the kit of a bruiser (the heal and shield) but the numbers of an assassin (lots of AP scaling, reliance on CDR-heavy burst mage items like Luden's and no % health damage or defensive health scaling). What he needs is to be firmly ensconced in the bruiser role with a kit of low-cooldown, low-individual impact abilities like Riven that synergise with his passive to make him less reliant on 40% CDR so that ROA will be an attractive first item like Diana or Swain, with a mixture of AP, level and health scalings to make sure he gets rewarded for building AP-tank and not for building full AP.
: I always thought Sylas was supposed to be built off-tank so he could survive in a fight longer.
In an ideal world he would be, but there's absolutely no reason within his kit for him to build anything but AP. His dependence on 40% CDR pushes you towards building Luden's Echo since it gives you so much CDR, and his heal and shield both scale with AP and nothing else. That's probably the single biggest reason Sylas has been impossible to balance: because the rewards for him building full AP are too good and the rewards for him building AP-tank are too bad. If Sylas was balanced like a bruiser and had a reason in his kit to build health (e.g. his heal or shield scaling with bonus health) we probably wouldn't be in this mess, but the obstinate refusal of Riot to entertain abandoning an assassin playstyle in favour of a bruiser-y one means that isn't happening.
floo (EUW)
: To be fair, he is probably the champ with the most mechanics in 1 kit (after aphelios now? idk) He has a shield, heal, 2 dashes (1 conditional), execute damage, 2 kinds of aoe, knock-up, slow and his R makes him even more of a generalist. It's not that I find it great to remove mechanics from champions, but newer ones just get more and more things pressed into 4 abilities and a passive, that at some point they have to lose something. Aatrox, Akali, Yuumi, Irelia, Zoe, now Sylas and I wouldn't be surprised if Senna and Aphelios follow soon. They all lost quite a lot of things in their kit to make them less oppressive over all other champions. What I'm trying to say is, he is such a generalist, that in his current form he has to have weak numbers or is just broken otherwise. They approach it exactly from that perspective, buff him in numbers but take away what makes him problematic.
Camille has two dashes, a true-damage nuke, 2 auto attack resets, AOE and magical % health damage, healing, a health-scaling shield, a stun, a movement speed and attack speed steroid and an AOE slow. And she's one of the best-balanced champions in the game who almost never needs balance changes (there was her release and a brief time where she was too good in the jungle but that was only very brief and didn't need much to nerf her out of it). The problem is that they don't seem to know where they want Sylas to be. They need to decide on whether he needs to be a bruiser or an assassin and balance him for it: right now he's a bit of both and it's hurting his balance and champ identity. Is he a bruiser? If so, why does he build full AP and not AP-tank like Swain? Where is his health scaling and % health damage? Is he an assassin? If so why does he have a burst heal? Why doesn't he have an escape? How is his ult supposed to benefit an assassin playstyle? What needs to be done is Riot needs to put their foot down and say "This champion is a bruiser like Camille or Vi and we're going to tune his numbers like one" and give him low-damage, short-cooldown abilities with a mixture of AP and health scaling so ROA becomes an attractive first option like Swain or Diana. Then, and only then, will they sort Sylas out.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 4
With Sylas in his current state (just a worse Ekko in pro play and utterly annihilated in solo queue to the point that even the best Sylas players are struggling to get to 50% WR on him), when can we expect him to actually be sorted out? I've read about Yuumi changes for the pre-season in a prior reply, but I'd like to know about Sylas. Are there plans to find a role for him to settle into and therefore balance around? If so, which one/s? What about his build path? It can't be healthy to have a champion with the kit of a bruiser building full AP, that'd be like Yorick being balanced around a Duskblade build. Change after change to balance around professional play has made this stunningly unique and tremendously fun champion pretty much unusable for everyone else even when you know what you're doing. You've made champions with overloaded kits like Camille, Lee Sin and Vi fit into the game before, I have every faith that you'll be able to make Sylas work too. I think I speak for all us Sylas mains when I ask: what's the plan going forward?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 20
Hello Mr The Meddler Man, I speak as a representative of those of us interested in Sylas. What is your end goal for Sylas? Do you have an intended role/roles for him to fill that his kit will be balanced around? And does the potential development of AP bruiser items (such as the Rylai's changed spitballed for preseason) impact how you are balancing Sylas now? We don't want Sylas to be a top-tier pick-or-ban gamebreaker, we just want our boi to be in a playable state and currently he really isn't. Any thoughts you'd be able to share?
: I definitely wouldn't call it "just another reason to hate on things". A lot of people, myself included. Are tired of seeing gay things on tv, social media, and now games.... I can't seem to escape gay things. It seems like everywhere I go it's getting shoved down my throat more and more slowly by the lgbtq community. If you wanna be gay that's fine but why is everyone pretending like it's a norm everyone has to be open to? I was looking forward to maining her but after hearing what she says I don't want to be exposed to that kind of stuff every game. You were raised one way, I was raised another.
Just interested to know... why would you consider gay people something you need to "escape" from? Is there something scary or threatening about them that makes you want to escape their presence?
: NOW COMPLETE - [Q&A] Ask Ivern's Creators Anything!
Where do the jungle monsters go when Ivern rescues them? And how do they feel about being rescued?

Neverm0re

Level 217 (EUW)
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