AhmCha (NA)
: I'm gonna be honest, games being shorter doesn't actually bother me
All those who want short games are missing the point that one team has to win in every game. This means that this team pushes at least one lane all the way through, including inhibitor and nexus turrets. With the current map size you can't have both short and non-snowbally games. Comeback mechanics that reduce snowball will slow down games, so you have to pick your poison.
: Too much League?
In previous seasons, when League was slower paced, I could play all day and not get tired. Right now, while it is faster and flashier, it is a bit exhausting at the same time. I went down from 6-7 (40-ish minute!) games each evening down to 2-3 30 minute games in s6 and almost stopped playing in s7 altogether.
EkyonKun (NA)
: I don't know why Zoe can even pluck random actives/summoners off minions at ALL. I mean, isn't she supposed to be some kind of spell thief? She should only be able to pick up actives/summoners of people who USED them. I usually don't have an issue with Zoe in lane, but I had an incident where two days ago, she randomly got ignite and immediately used it on me. Then she used a protobelt, into an immediate GLP. And not 30 seconds later, I got redemptioned in lane. Like COME ON. This doesn't feel like a trickster using my own abilities against me. It feels like I'm playing against a hacker who can just spam random abilities at their leisure. Actually I just remembered she had that Cyberpop Zoe skin...hm...
Exactly. Spell thief theme is fine, as it is predictable, and picking Zoe can be a strategic decision, which is always welcome in League. However, RNG doesn't go well in a competitive environment and should be fixed before next season (LCS).
GigglesO (NA)
: This game could afford to slow down...
Wanted to post a similar thread myself. This is what Riot should do for the next couple of seasons. Damage creep is insane rn.
Abibyama (EUW)
: *Rito buffs the turrets* **Thread 1** Turrets are so strong, that any dives are impossible, making this game stale and unfun **Thread 2** Undivable turrets cause behind teams to turtle and stale out the game making it unfunnily long and tedious **Thread 3** Holy fuck this wave clear meta so annoying. Ziggs vs Xerath every single game **Thread 4** Remember in season 7 how games were ACTUALLY fun? (Except Ardent Meta, gosh that was awful) Please buff towers so I can meme the hell out of it
While I think towers should be buffed at least some more, this is pretty accurate. Thank you for a good laugh, Summoner.
: Did you even read the other half of my reply?
Sure. I mean, I mostly agree, just wanted to add something from my experience. Apologies if it is not appropriate or if I've not made it clear enough.
darkdill (NA)
: Zoe's Sleep effect bypasses Morgana's shield, and can't be cleansed with Mikael's? No, Riot. NO.
I think the closest abilities mechanics wise are tethers - Karma's W and LeBlanc's E. So, if Morgana's shield can block the root part after the initial cast, it should also block Zoe's E, and vice versa.
: The problem isn't games being short, is the snowball
You can't have both fast and non-snowbally games on the same map with the same core system. For games to end fast one of the teams HAS to snowball. You have to pick your poison - long strategic games or snowball. Or, like you said, break the game completely by turning on URF mode permanently (which Riot has been doing slowly, kind of, since preseason 6). I, for one, am for longer games. If someone wants faster games, there is Twisted Treeline.
: well I knew by the fact that they're, I dunno, a mastery lvl 7 {{champion:107}} ? Or maybe the fact that the {{champion:107}} literally said "I wanna see an extremely fed {{champion:45}} " which then leads him to going into mid and dancing and then proceeds to give {{champion:45}} 13 FKN KILLS? Well, hey, it's just norms right? Not like you considered the fact that people don't want to play ranked for how toxic other players are.
I've got mastery 5-7 on multiple champions, but if I haven't played them in a long time or am tired I'm most likely going to feed. Just as example - my favorite champion is Lux, who is extremely skillshot dependent. If I feel great, I go to ranked, hit almost every spell, ult everyone left and right and swim in honors. In the opposite case I miss point blank Q's, misclick ults in opposite direction etc., and my plat border+mastery 7 played a bad joke as people started to flame me when I lost to silvers/golds.
: I'm tired of this shit happening every time someone's inting and then another player tries to defend them by saying "it's just norms, relax". {{sticker:sg-lux-2}}
Why are you so sure that they are inting? Normals are exactly the place to mess around with new champions and builds in a pvp environment, which means that their score is going to be terrible.
Durzaka (NA)
: I think pick rate is only calculated from games that the champion isnt banned in.
Normally it is not. So the maximum value of pick rate+ban rate is 100%
: Hey look, we got a neat little tower buff
This is a joke. They could double towers' hp, armor AND damage to champions and they still wouldn't be too strong. Wet toilet paper+300 hp is still wet toilet paper, and they even offset it with increased minion damage. For those who doubt it - just wait and see it yourselves.
Tortunga (EUW)
: While this would be amazing, I think it's extremely hard to create a fool proof system. Somebody can be 10/2 for example, but if he refuses to group and just runs around the map trying to get more kills, he might be a weakness to your team. While somebody that is 0/5 but groups up and be what the team needs might be a very valuable teammember, even if his score says otherwise.
Pretty much every tank. Tanks engage, then their task is to survive as long as possible, soak a lot of damage, while their team kills enemy carries. Most of the time it means that tank dies, so scores like 0/5/10 are fairly common, but that doesn't reflect importance of said tanks to the team.
: if they last 45-60 minutes then picking any late game champion is an auto win, and players who play early game champions properly will almost never be able to close out games. Snowball is a necessary mechanic in the game.
Depends on the definition of "late". If gold generation and snowballing are reduced (basically reverse preseason 6 changes), then super late game (6 items hypercarries) can mean 70 minutes instead of 40.
: You are just remembering wrong. The middle ground used to be 30-40 minutes with some games going longer and some being shorter. Just go look up old pro games or try to find old youtube videos of s1, s2 and s3. Although there was a few month long period in season 3 or 4 where the meta was waveclear mages that stalled out the game making the games closer to 35-45 riot decided they didn't like that and nerfed that strat.
Yes, 35 minutes used to be the golden standard, but it felt different. If some team managed to win in 25 minutes, I felt outplayed and admired their skill. 30 minutes was about right for a decisive victory without stalling and running around in circles. In s6 and this season I've seen 20-25 minute games left and right without anyone doing anything particularly impressive.
DarkRooster (EUNE)
: Honestly when we have massive virgin war against Dota 2 players, their argument is that their champions are free, all of them. So i expected that Riot will change it so we can get champions way easier, like half year or year normal playing and you have them all, and they did the opposite. This is really hard point Dota 2 virgins have and somehow Riot doesn't care. You can't make core of the game hardly buyable, make it easy to get and sell cosmetics.
You can, but it becomes a shitty mobile lootbox type economy with monetization that everybody hates.
: How will Riot avoid balancing champions around a specific keystone?
The only solution I could think of is to tune runes individually for each champion, but this would cause confusion. This is why I think the old system was better - it allowed practically infinite combinations to ACTUALLY fine tune champions for different playstyles. Some say that there was a single optimal combination for most champions anyway, but every patch after mere 3 ad nerfs a whole new meta is sometimes discovered (often in Korea) ("hey, these champions are actually good right now"). League was just too complex to grasp all possible combinations, and it was good. Those who did not want to bother could just use a single most common page, but there was room for variety and balancing that is most likely gone.
Phat Pat (NA)
: Why were mages so poorly compensated for stats?
Not going to comment on other points, but we did get compensated for 5 minion damage loss: this mastery is now built in for all champions. (source: official patch 7.22 notes)
130x (NA)
: ***
Pretty much on point, but I would argue that short and less snowbally games are not possible. Shorter games mean that one team hast to break inner, outer turrets, at least one inhibitor and nexus turrets, all that in a rather short amount of time. This very situation implies existance and prevalence of snowball mechanics. Long (boring for some) strategic games or huge snowball - it's impossible to get rid of both, and League designers should not cater to those who want it nice and easy.
: Is the problem that League games are too long for the type of reward given, or for the amount of reward given? Riot could increase the amount of essence given from level up chests to make each level up feel worth while, though I'm not sure how much that would end up being.
The system itself is not compatible with the spirit of the game... or at least with the game League used to be. We didn't really need many flashy lootboxes and unnecessary leveling, just a steady grind to buy new champions/runes. League has always been a more "serious" game for me - not something for loot whores who want lots of rewards and lootbox gambling, but something I can play for pure distilled immersive strategic gameplay.
: It works for Overwatch because those games are short
Exactly. I mean, before every new moba had to explain why it was worth playing over League/Dota and introduce some gimmick/feature to be at least somewhat popular, albeit still niche. Now we are in a situation where League is trying its hardest to be like HotS. So, if I want shorter games with lots of glitter and lootboxes, why don't just play HotS instead? Now League has to explain why it is better than HotS. Like, WTF?
: Thanks Riot.
I think Tencent is to blame here. Since their acquisition of Riot it all went downhill, starting from 2015. Games were becoming shorter, damage creep is more and more insane to make competitive more flashy. And maybe it is just another conspiracy but look how these new metas favor CN teams who love mindless aggression all game long. It is almost as if League is being adapted to them over the last seasons. Anyway, it's the same story as with many gaming studios. When they are young and small, they care about their products A LOT. But then a major publisher like EA or Activision comes along and twists all their new games to accomodate some bs like microtransactions and lootboxes that we see this year. It is more and more about just milking the playerbase while being careful enough to prevent exodus.
: Riot somehow managed to make the game MORE snowbally
Somehow? You know some s**t is going to happen when they compensate most ad champions for their loss of ad, don't compensate mr from old runes and introduce more damage with new runes. It's a snowball galore until most things are nerfed across the board (or not, then we are counter strike now with a new shiny adc meta).
: the major problem with with {{item:3157}} isnt the item itself it's the unique passive, and that fact its the ONLY ap + armor item. and the the price of the passive takes up a percentage of the gold cost if AD wants to build vs an ap heavy team while stil going a full damage build they can get {{item:3155}} /{{item:3156}} or {{item:3140}} /{{item:3139}} , and build {{item:3111}} (and although it is pretty niche {{item:3091}} technically works too ) AP just get {{item:3047}} and {{item:3157}} i literally had a game vs a FULL ad team.. where i bought {{item:3157}} and {{item:3047}} . and i STILL needed more armor i have ZERO option to choose that to give me armor and damage, i ended up going {{item:3116}} because health was my ONLY option we don't need some fantastic new op item, we just need some option that gives like 80ap and maybe like 60 armor, and maybe something like item CDR like {{item:2045}} has
Agree almost entirely, but I think that Item cdr would imply you build zhonyas as well. We are talking about a fairly brainless "buy and forget" option, similar to hexdrinker/maw. Not that we need to buff stuff like gunblade/archangels in the process, it would just end up being nerfed and becoming another niche item.
Sujiren (EUW)
: Can we add magic resist item, with no cdr, but more resists?
Just nerf physical damage so that tanks don't have to build 3-4 armor items+tabi to not be blown by adcs, which leaves room for only one MR item. Problem solved.
: {{champion:67}} *autistic screeching*
Funnily enough, as a support I see the least number of such pings from Vayne players. The most pings in my experience come from Tristana and Ashe players, in any meta.
: Infernals and elder.
Good catch about elder, somehow I missed that despite seeing the animation. Still, it factors for 18% ad maximum (so, about 100 ad), and in the next episode he has 512 without elder, still much more than I normally see on live.
Rioter Comments
: @Riot Either remove series or give us LP that we won in them after promoting.
At this point I'm all for removing promos (preferably temporarily) just for people to realize it's not what is holding them from climbing in any reasonable way. It is about mmr, not lp. You'll catch up in lp anyway if you win enough games and vice versa. So yeah, remove series, can't wait for a new excuse why people are stuck where they are, because it can't be skill, totally not.
Done25 (NA)
: Rammus used to be death incarnate to auto attack based champs. However, after several heavy handed nerfs, he's little more than a joke now. Malphite is still in a pretty good spot iirc. On demand initiation with good burst makes him quite strong against marksmen. His only downfall is the sheer strength of Redemption/Locket/Enchanters negating his burst. I don't think Sej was ever really anti AD. She got free armor, but that's not much. Her current version is more "Anti-burst" or "Anti-hp stacking".
Yes, imo all those tanks are decent, but all they can do in the current meta is survive to not get deleted instantly. I'm asking for a real hard counter like Galio is against AP (or maybe the better option is to nerf Galio's tankiness and compensate it elsewhere).
: > [{quoted}](name=Niaphim,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0y1HTBsV,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-10-24T11:48:30.838+0000) > > Not really. He can stack armor, but the stereotype that he counters AD teams is more or less a heritage from past seasons. He doesn't have percentage damage reduction and gets murdered like most melee bruisers. You know his armor triples when his ten percent health shield is on right? Well, what about rammus?
Just by the stats, Rammus is a better option right now, but I don't think he counters AD nearly as much as Galio does to AP. And personally I'm very annoyed by full AD comps running around unpunished all this season.
: Ummm, Malphite?
Not really. He can stack armor, but the stereotype that he counters AD teams is more or less a heritage from past seasons. He doesn't have percentage damage reduction and gets murdered like most melee bruisers. In a meta where ADCs are kings, and top and jungle are ad most of the time as well he only has 49.4% win rate. I remember in the past when AD champions got strong he got upwards to around 54-55%, just below Rammus at 56-57%%.
Rioter Comments
Kaìju (NA)
: I only enjoy Ashe, and I've tried every other ADC to mastery five or so.
But what about a completely different role/class?
: uhh if the game is decided in the fist 10-15 minutes... and laning phase takes up most of that 15 minute period... wouldn't that effectively make you winning lane, make you win the game? After all if you have more teammates that win lane phase, you have a bigger change of winning the game...
This is how it used to be - if you had more winning lanes you had more chances to win game - although still not guaranteed. However, right now except for botlane your lead is still a subject to throwing if you play top/jungle/mid. Only botlane can snowball so hard that it makes other lanes irrelevant - and it does. So what I want to say is in current meta you either make early game plays after winning your lane to secure bot lane lead or you survive lane to peel them later - and this will remain true until the botlane influence is nerfed.
Kaìju (NA)
: I agree, bu what could it give?
Bonus damage on spells (magic damage only) probably.
Seen (NA)
: This game is more about picks than skills
Your complaint has some substance, but the argument you are presenting is not very convincing. It was almost always like this. First of all, why are you considering first time yourself vs an enemy counter pick? If it's normals - ok, you are there to learn how to lane as said champion. If it is ranked, just stop first picking champions. Don't. It's bad. The only valid scenarios are either when you can play a champion adequately or when you main them. Second, laning is just one part of the game. You can't say lane=game, it's low elo mentality. I've seen so many "I won my lane but lost game, why Rito?" posts that it became annoying. All those players had horrible macro skills past laning phase and didn't see how it was their issue, only paying attention to their KDA in the laning phase. The game is about two main phases: laning and teamfighting/splitpushing. While some strategies may not be valid right now, some champions come online AFTER laning phase, so you basically need to survive your lane to become useful later. So it all boils down to the current meta and whether it allows to use different strategies or it is only hardcore snowballing. While the game is very snowbally and is often decided in first 10-15 minutes, I'd argue that this is not the case except for the botlane.
: For some dumb reason as well. Can't wait to sit at my tower and do nothing every time I lane against AD.
That is if you manage to pick a mage without getting flamed and reported... Welcome to the League of AD Legends.
: PSA to Riot. Items are not supports.
> Riot got rid of old items such as old herald and aegis because they said you couldn't visually see the buff This made me laugh actually. I remember they used almost exactly this very phrase to justify removing auras. But then we get PD, DD and Knight's Vow. Then also the keystone that redirects damage (forgot how it's called). Totally different and much more visible effects (/s), I see what you did there, Riot.
: no skill shot assassin
Normally you aren't supposed to beat an assassin as an adc without a substantial lead. Corki, with his mobility, can try to outplay some assassins, but not Akali. You do need peel to survive, that's the whole point of assassins vs adcs balance.
Xyzx (NA)
: because they generally call every team by their full name, it's a respect thing.
"Generally" - maybe, but certainly not always. For example, Royal Never Give Up is more often referred to as RNG, the only time I hear the full version is on the analyst desk, which is understandable, but in games it's almost always RNG.
Rioter Comments
: "This Season is the worst yet"
The problem is that for me personally at least, seasons 3-5 gave mostly positive emotions. Yes, the balance was not pefect. Yes, same picks in competitive, yada, yada. But still, when I learned about new changes, I was happy to see them go live. Seasons 6 and 7 often gave me quite negative reactions, sometimes reaching "WTF" levels of hilariousness. When I first played with 45% cdr, I thought it was a joke and a fun mode, but then I realized it was here to stay. Multiple broken and unfun stuff targeted at twisting the core of the game, shortening its length, making it more "flashy" - I can pinpoint exactly what I dislike in the current League.
: Just reduce the gold generation on Coin instead of the mana regen
The problem is the max range from which you can pick coins. It is so huge that it might as well not exist. I'd personally like it to be reduced significantly (basically to melee range). Right now the risk component in collecting coins is almost non-existent.
Zex (NA)
: "Dang Kayn carried hardcore desrves a S+"
Score itself doesn't mean much. Your score is compared to other Kayns' performance, so your **relative** performance is what matters. In other words, there are many Kayn players with good stats, which is an indication that he is probably fairly easy to snowball with.
Rioter Comments
reieisu (NA)
: oh, and maybe pings could be somehow included
Not sure it's a good idea. I mean, I'm usually pretty active with pings as a support, and to make sure my pings are noticed, I repeat them 3-4 times. Also if I'm pinging jungle missing (there are situations when it is useful) I ping question mark over a jungle segment for it to not be confused with my laner missing or even bm (and I don't ever bm with pings). On the other hand, those who bm with pings are usually pretty passive and only spam pings in bm situations, so it averages to a fairly small value over the length of games.
Durzaka (NA)
: >Back in season 4 and 5 I could shut down fed adcs even if I am 1 item behind them. I dont disagree AP itemization feels like garbage. But in what world should someone who is potentially down 3k gold be able to easily deal with the fed player by themselves?
ADCs are very squishy. They used to build something defensive in s3, but no longer do. I believe, it is fair to be able to kill the class you are meant to somewhat counter. On the countrary, adcs getting the best of everything is quite annoying.
: just like most champs who are immobile and skill shot cc abilities are subjected to being kited and cc/peel his over all win rate for plat plus on this patch is Cho'Gath has a win rate 50.47% for Platinum+ players. he is a strong champ but not broken and has weakness and can be beaten and as of this patch his damage break down per game is changed Physical Damage: 2634 (16.76%) Magic Damage: 9560 (60.83%) True Damage: 3520 (22.40%) Total Damage Dealt: 15715 he on average only deals 15k in damage that is fairly low and his ult/true damage is down to 22% of his over all damage out put while magic damage is 60%
Looks like he is a one trick pony - you just need to survive until the point when you can feast the enemy adc and end the game off that. Whether it is healthy design or not -- probably not, he is in line for a rework afaik.
: Wasn't sona instantly nerfed last time she was pro viable because it means she is blatantly OP
Kind of. She is incredibly predictable an easy to counter. The only fairly unpredictable combo is flash+ulti, outside of it she is too binary. Last time she was a real pick in the LCS (and still not really popular) was when she had 58% win rate in solo queue.
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