: You’re not wrong that freezing is an option, but you also have to remember that normally freezing also involves you having your wave to work with. Because of the fact that he’s proxying, not only do you not have your own minion wave with which to initiate the freeze, meaning you have to body block the entire wave yourself, and he’s still getting farm and gold. His minions will continuously push into your tower or into you, slowly chipping away at your health or dying to tower prematurely and causing you to lose farm while also doing damage to said tower. Meanwhile, unlike if he’s in lane with you, you can’t punish him for not positioning properly or being too agressive. Usually, you have to rely on your jungler to dislodge a proxy, and that’s assuming they can depending on how they’re doing. I know a Singed Proxy is not the end of the world, but it’s also harder to deal with than you might fully appreciate.
first 5 levels you can have the tower tank at least half the minions, if you have a dorans blade then you will lifesteal most of that shit back anyway. Having your jungler just approach the proxying singed can make him blow his ghost or execute which means he needs to get back into proxy position/lose minions, to fuck up a proxy singed you don't even need to kill him, proxy has been purposefully targeted by riot for the last 3 years as something they don't want in their game, beafier minions, minions don't follow into the jungler, resistances are bullshit stats, so the proxying singed cant live through a random 1/0 lb comboing him due to the new runes being complete bullshit. I'm acutally amazed that given how hard riot has tried to turn this game into a boring kill minions in lane, aram, kill baron, kill inihibitor, kill nexus game without any viable alternatives, people still cry about someone trying to turn this product being designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator, into a strategy game.
: some work or buff on Singed?
If you want to get this done name the thread after some high popularity champion like "OMG PYKE BUG" should be the title, and then you tell them that actually you just want to get singed buffed and you will get a bunch of responses asking you "who is singed?" , but at least it will get more attention.
: He’s obnoxious, but I do agree he feels weak. I’d like to maybe see him not be able to proxy as easily (that’s literally the one thing every Singed I’ve faced did ever, and it’s both uninteractive when you’re ahead and borderline unfair when you’re behind), but he definitely needs some love. Maybe a tiny rework to his E so that it’s easier to land the root, more base armor/MR, something like that.
If you are behind and the singed proxies you, then what is your problem? You get to relax in lane and last hit everything. When you are behind and you are laning against fiora/riven, good luck touching minions. The reason people cry about singed proxying is because nobody understands wave management, if you freeze agains singed, the minions near your tower will be lost to him, if he stays to get them he cant proxy, if he leaves them he gets behind half a wave of exp every time he backs including the gank danger. I guess your average league player wants to shoot things at stuff all day to feel they are accomplishing something.
: True damage isn't supposed to be reduced?
It is supposed to be reduced but riot hires their designer from the special needs schools computer workshops.
Eedat (NA)
: Doesn't that completely defeat the purpose of true damage?
as it should, true damage is a bullshit stat, buy your fucking damage items like a true capitalist, dont just get it from riots desire to have you get to do all the damage you want from champion select.
: Remove Zoe from the game until you can come up with a better kit for her.
every reasonable post gets more downvotes than upvotes here, the demographics of this game are not the brightest
: Can we stop pretending that “Runes Reforged” isn’t great?!
If you call being chained to 1-2 keystones from the same tree "customization" then its fine. The old system actually let you "customize" your stats in runepages, masteries chained you to a keystone, but runes let you play with stats. The stat game has been removed, now all thats left is going to lolalytics.com/champion/your_champion_name scroll down, see keystone win rates, pick the one thats over 50% and you have fully "customized" your setup. The rune system is dead, I'm back to starcraft.
: Runes Reforged has made the game boring
I called this the moment the new runes were released. Maybe its because I'm a onetrick who had 10 runepages of which 7 were for cheesy play, but seeing the new system my inner child is dead, there is nothing to do with this boring stuff, you are chained to a small set of keystones, with a bunch of stats that make little to no difference if you swap them out for something else, but you cant abandon the stats, because they are better than what you get with any alternative keystone, so the current system is pretty much "pick one of the 2-3 keystones that work fairly well" , there is literally nothing to do with this stuff, I'm done with the game, I liked the game more when my champion was underpowered, but I actually had some stats to manipulate in order to gain some imbalance to play with.
: Base Health nerf... I wonder if Doran's Shield will be needed to survive lane now. Or if we still need Dark Seal to function as a champion.
> [{quoted}](name=Freezer Flare,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=hvpEAeq8,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-07-14T00:39:52.901+0000) > > Base Health nerf... > I wonder if Doran's Shield will be needed to survive lane now. > Or if we still need Dark Seal to function as a champion. q Base damage values got axed, so I'm thinking of starting with a dorans ring , proxying one wave and then getting refillable, and walking back to lane as if nothing happened.
Stocking (NA)
: they don't make you play the strategy that's intended they nerf strategies that are anti-fun to motivate people to play in a way that can win them the game without making everybody else in the game angry a good example is zerg rushing in SC it was incredibly fun for the person doing it but the person who has to deal with the zerg rush could never enjoy the game making it bad gameplay even though it was incredibly effective
whaaaaaa, I can't deal with singed proxying(I'm literally too stupid to just walk to lane with my first minion wave), whaaa , its no fun playing vs proxy singed, I'm supposed to be coddled from unorthodox gameplay, whaaaaa ! singed ran away from me! whaaaaaaaaa . Play singed kid, 70% if not more lanes counter you earlygame and outscale you to the lategame, I don't see these champions being removed from the game. Grow a sack. why the hell are you referencing strategic diversity in starcraft as a negative, you are clearly too stupid to realize why starcraft was the greatest e-sport.
: I see what you're getting at. I strongly disagree that heavy proxy farming has a place in LoL, but I do agree that we're overly strict on meta enforcement. We even do it in the client now with role select. Singed aside, it's a philosophical discussion that cannot be done without considering other ecosystems like e-sports. I have plenty of opinions, but am not equipped to offer you real answers. Ghostcrawler does lots of good Q&As here: https://askghostcrawler.tumblr.com/ if you want to try and get a better response (may already be one?). Don't mean to cop out of the conversation, but it's largely out of my realm of influence.
Is a strategy game still a strategy game if the developer made u only play the strategy they intended?
: I love/d proxy farming. I also understand why it sucks.
Playing against fiora also sucks, don't see anybody removing her from the game Kappa
: I actually like the general idea of proxy farming, and think it is an acceptable playstyle to some degree. I just understand why Riot may disapprove. I play some rts myself, and enjoy them. League isn't an rts though, it's a MOBA, a multiplayer online _battle arena_.
Did I call it an rts, I just mentioned my background. I find variety in strategic approaches as something good and find it sad that so many league players fail to acknowledge any validity to different approaches to the way the game can be played. Everything out of the ordinary seems to be something the community feels needs to be purged because its not standard.
Joxcab (NA)
: No need to be a dick when you completely missed the point. Proxy farming is undoubtedly an extremely toxic playstyle, particularly suicide proxying (although death gold value changes mostly killed it off). It might be fun for you, but it's not fun for the opponents. They're not going to remove it altogether obviously as it's part of his identity, but that shouldn't be the strength he revolves around.
They already removed it, your argument is invalid, try again.
: I think he didn't mean to remove it entirely/keep it completely unviable, just that it would be there as a situational strategy
given the changes of the past 2 years(minion pathing , potion changes etc) I'm not sure I believe that.
: I think it's that proxy farming is intended to be non-interactive, something not desirable in a competitive, team-based pvp game.
Playing singed vs teemo is also noninteractive if you get what I'm saying, removing proxyfarming just gives all the interaction to the opposing lane. The macro game of proxyfarming was super fun imo, also in the current meta there exist champions that can counter proxyfarming hard (yorick does not even need minions to push down towers, renekton/trynd can proxy if they want etc, there are champs that do better proxying than singed which is silly imo). Also walking into lane with minions has always been a counter to proxying however good the proxy was, if there is a champion in the minion wave you cant really proxy(at least in the first levels) So there is already by definition introduced a tempogame of keeping singed from proxying by denying exp etc, it might not be pressing your q button and getting instant dopamine feedback because you see singeds health bar go lower in lane, but it is still interactive and strategical. My overall point is that seeing the current champion releases and updates(talon running around with maphacks, camille, galio etc) I have gotten the feeling that most of the people designing the champions are way too focused on the instant dopamine feedback they get when they see a champion hit an ability(which makes sense, easy access satisfaction is marketable) that they are kind of unknowingly/(or as the comment I was responding to inferred) knowingly removing strategic depth from the game in favor of satisfying the adhd of the majority of people playing the game. *edit not to suggest literal mental disorders, just to point out that the decision seems to be made in the way most of todays multimedia applications are designed. And I personally, from a position of an rts player, don't agree that a strategy game should solely be designed around marketability.
: Some fun ideas. Don't think we ever want to go back to a world where proxy farming/split pushing forever is optimal though.
I'm sorry you have bad taste in singed gameplay. Proxy farming is fun as hell, maybe its just the appeal to adhd and wanting other champions to be able to spam buttons at you in lane that you find important.
: As a Singed main, he is countered by a lot of top lane champs... Singed needs a minor re-work... These new champs have so much mobility.
I think that instead of %max mana hp he should get %max mana hp regen, that way he gets most of what has been removed over the last 2 seasons back, he can build damage again, he can survive proxy better, he can be deceptively low hp but still have escape potential(in singed terms its outplay potential), He can survive teamfights better and he can lane vs poke heavy champions better.
: When is camille being nerfed?
Aaand another totally reasonable comment downvoted to hell, gj rito community, you people make me wonder, should everybody have reproductive rights, maybe eugenics is the way to go, I mean I know that much of the stupidity comes from bad parenting not genetics, but if you don't let dumb people reproduce they wont be able to do such a terrible job raising their kids.
: Does Camille ult really need to be unescapeable ?
Again a perfectly reasonable complaint gets downvoted to shit, gj riot community I hate the stupidity you represent.
JahacNoob (EUNE)
: Camille needs a hard nerf
Why is it so that every reasonable post made on riot forums either gets no upvotes or gets many downvotes, I am seriously worried for the future of humanity if such lack of intelligence is so wide spread, it seems to be the meta.
: she doesn't need a nerf she has really hard counters top lane {{champion:122}} {{champion:420}} {{champion:114}} (idk in the jg) but if you dont know how to counter her as a adc or something wait for her to ult you and use her e and kite her to death ez pz
you need to rethink your life choices since your comment implies that you spam camille every game, I feel sorry for you for not being able to play a fair game, maybe one day you will learn what a good match is.
groodle (NA)
: Camille
THE TRUTH HAS BEEN SPOKEN! edit: seriously doe, I know riot has a hiring policy for 13 year old boys but 50% of lane length of gapclose/escape + free stun + slow + shield + true damage + j4 ult with eliminated counterplay + zero cooldowns, I mean I get it MLG PARKOUR FAKER WOW LCS PLAYZZZZZZZZ, but the game is turning pretty stale, fire the guy who wants to make everything parkour in the game, i mean you guys might as well just eliminate all the walls from the game, because every champ already is flying around.
: Camille
Dear dumdum, singed is countered by 60% of common toplaners, educate yourself, don't hurt my brain with your lack of intelligence.
: Welcome to another edition of "You are a trash jungler because i lost lane"
I don't usually blame the jungler, one game I did get fukt by having the jungler make me help him do red after I closed all lagg inducing programs, I was singed with wrong masteries against a darius, arrived in lane 3 minions late(in other words behind a level for a full wave) he smacked me with his q a couple of times(which hurt more than usual because i went ferocity for all the yasuo/riven tops I see) the jungler tried to gank, baiting me to stay in lane too long, I died. Jungler tried to fix it with another gank, darius got double kill because their jungler saved the day. I didn't blame the jungler that much, but I do not like arriving late to lane vs one of the hardest counters while having the wrong masteries.
: @Riot please make Fiora's E use her crit animation.
free true damage, free heal, free crit, free dashes, free win
: Riven buff consequences
By the time riven reaches her buff zone she has been already nullified in lane and cant leave due to the pressure the opposing tank is putting on her tower, her lvl6 roam will most likely result in tower first blood for the enemy toplaner. I don't even mind dieing to a riven once or twice, get a sunfire cape and laugh, if i die three times , get zzrot instead, she will be my cleaning lady for the next 5 minutes pentakilling zzrot minions.
Aptest (EUW)
: I am not upset that yasuo is a successful champion. Successful meaning, people like playing him even if he is weak and they lose. I can say that I am slightly annoyed at how little game-play a _good _ yasuo player "permits" his opponent. And you can definitely put him in the list of "your opponent is not having any fun" champions. Alongside lulu of all champions. But this is not the point of this thread. There are a lot of yasuo QQ threads i can pollute if i really wanted to say "yasuo toxic waa waa waa". I am just annoyed at having the same champion appear all the time in just about every game. I guess i'll just ban him to have a varied game.
I sometimes feel ive played against yasuo top more times than some of the yasuos I've played against have played yasuo. The game has been designed around yasuo, irelia, fiora and gp (fioras nerfs made her kindof disapear, which I approve of) in this season I think, Its quite rare to see anybody else there, I'm personally quite bored with what the game has become. Normal games have like a 90% yasuo pick rate, I like to make fictional bets with my self about seeing yasuo in the next game I queue up for.
: Black cleaver, Titanic hydra, frozen mallet, dead man's plate, merc treads. Murder everyone.
The problem with this is that even though you are strong bavarian with a shield you will feel about as squishy as an adc fro 15 minutes even though your whole kit is built around being tanky. I guess my main issue is the %armor/mr thing while shen/poppy/nautilus/yasuo .... have shields in their kit that just give them extra hp. The thing with armor and mr is, that the more you get the less useful it gets, 100 armor-50% damage reduction 200-66% 300-75% so basically if you go for the suggested build you still sacrifice attack speed , ult and w, i guess if you use only w base values it kindof makes sense, but still the design feels intentionally gimped into being unbuildable, i mean the ap scale on his ultimate is basically saying"ples dont break meta, rito no like break meta" .
Calabok (NA)
: i'm not wrong. He was created to be support. Just like Goat girl and Thresh
adc thresh, adc thresh top, adc goatgirl, im pretty sure goatgirl can be played top.
: > [{quoted}](name=NahDogSolRahn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JqOAM6lo,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-08-27T18:27:29.486+0000) > > Leona, Blitz, Alistar or Naut would have been better to ask about, all of them are Tank primaries shoved into the bot lane for one reason or another. Naut shits on GP top, AP or tri force ali will delete most midlaners as well. They are very strong and tend to get nerfed because of it
Ye but they are still flexible , thats all I want, flexibility, if your games pieces can be used for multiple purposes you can improvise and make builds/strats or in other words have fun and play the game, not repeat the routine.
: How come Master Yi doesn't have hard cc on his kit. They brute force him out of the support role by not giving him some decent hard cc.
I could probably do more as a yi support than I could as everything else braum related. Thats not the point doe, compare braum to nautilus, you can play nautilus 3-4 different ways without too much variance in results, while you can only do one thing with braum, even doe both have on hit stun(braums is harder to proc), knockup ult(nautilus easyer to aim and build to do damage and....) both can tank for their adc, nautilus doesent have the shield but all his other abilities compensate for that. Now you see braum has the potential to be about as flexible without too many balance issues (the main problem is that he needs every stat in the game to scale with every ability, but lets sacrifice his ultimate, he still needs, hp, ad, as, armor, mr(lots of armor and mr for his w to make sense, lost of as to make his passive into a solo laning thing, lots of hp to make his q scale) you make one of these scalings the same with the other and you can invent different ways to play this champion without breaking the game. But riot is lazy and has castrated our frosty doorman into being the support that only gets played on the free to play week.
Calabok (NA)
: he was created to be support. so support he is.
How is this of any substance? I guess you are the type of player who picks a champion, googles his build and aims his q and tries not to get hit by other persons q and hopes to get the enemy nexus at the end of the game and is satisfied with whatever you were spoonfed to play with this champion. I mean not to bring in personal insults, but how does "braum was created to be support" answer anything about the design question? Take for example nautilus, who serves similar roles as a support....or hey you want to jungle with him, go ahead, or you want to go top, do it, want to go ap, it isnt the best, but the scaling exists, want to go on hit tank? That works too, want to go hp focused tank, fine by me... that is what I call flexible design, now take braum...you either build defencive stats and hp and hope your team uses your kit well or fuck off. That is bruteforced boring design. They could fix it so easily too its sad to watch, make his w give a shield instead of %armor/mr and braum becomes instantly buildable, just have to mess around with the scaling multipliers to balance stuff out. But no , that would give people something to think about, something to work with, we don't like people who think.
Rioter Comments
Djoc (NA)
: Blue Essence in new Hextech useless sense i have all champions. Also 50k useless IP..
I have gotten 2 skin shards for 2 champs I don't own, the system is rigged for me to invest, and I don't feel like investing into obvious baits.
: Always Unknown Error
same problem here
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