Moody P (NA)
: Ahri is A tier at best and her winrate is inflated by her value as a safety pick
Curious. Can you explain the "inflated" win rate due to her being a safe champion? The ways I read it, her winrate is high because she's too hard to punish for how much she does, which makes her op, or she is picked more often because she's safe, but champs with higher pick rates should also have lower win rates. Idk if I'm understanding your point wrong though.
Manxxom (NA)
: "You should have not played with fire."
{{champion:115}}:KILLER QUEEN! {{champion:350}}: ゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴ {{champion:115}}: DAISAN NO BAKUDAN: 「BITE ZA DUSTO」
: Why custom announcers could improve the game.
Imaqtpie: First Blood! **"Nothing personal kid."** Hashinshin: Kill Streak! _"Unstoppable by the way"._ Cowswep: You have been slain! "I WAS IN ALPHA!" Why don't we have these?
: Most Underrated Skin Lines
One bittersweet thing about this post, is that if we do get these skin lines back, while it would be a breath of fresh air, I'm afraid Riot is going to ruin them by forcing the skin favourites into them. Even if people want an Elderwood Kindred or a Super Galaxy Xenomorph Rek'sai, Riot's just going to cater to the 3 or 4 popular champs, giving one the legendary and the other prestige and then MAYBE make a skin for the unpopular champ with chromas and a boarder.
: > [{quoted}](name=Amewe,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=v7vAvimJ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-30T20:38:10.430+0000) > > Kassadin next? {{sticker:sg-soraka}} pwease? Going by days without a skin for champions here's the top 10 first priorities... 1. Skarner (1556 Days) 2. Xerath (1556 Days) 3. Zilean (1542 Days) 4. Mordekaiser (1532 Days) 5. Rek'Sai (1496 Days) 6. Kassadin (1385 Days) 7. Vel'Koz (1216 Days) 8. Sion (1203 Days) 9. Nocturne (1182 Days) 10. Kindred (1161 Days)
> [{quoted}](name=Darkin Hybrid,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=v7vAvimJ,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-07-30T20:55:14.619+0000) > > Going by days without a skin for champions here's the top 10 first priorities... > > 10. Shyvana (1161 Days) Btw, Kindred got their last skin on the 2016 super galaxy event too, so them and Shyvana are tied.
: **ORNN** hasn't had a skin since release, 2017, and has **_one_ **skin. **REK'SAI** only has **_two_ **skins, and not since **2015 **as stated above. **VEL'KOZ, BARD AND KALISTA** only have **_three_ **skins, and none have had a new skin since **2016**. **A list of champs who haven't had a skin since 2015** *• Udyr • Skarner • Xerath • Zilean • Mordekaiser • Rek'sai • Kassadin* PROJECT: Vel'Koz, PROJECT: Kalista, PROJECT: Zilean, PROJECT: Skarner would've been perfect fucking skins. What the fuck Riot.
> [{quoted}](name=AFK at Keyboard,realm=NA,application-id=EBBIvmVK,discussion-id=tkETuJ5p,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2019-07-15T18:45:43.178+0000) > > PROJECT: Vel'Koz, PROJECT: Kalista, PROJECT: Zilean, PROJECT: Skarner would've been perfect fucking skins. > > What the fuck Riot. Ok, definitely not Project Vel'koz or Skarner, that would just be a waste considering the mechanical/Battlecast skins, but they do need skins.
usul1202 (NA)
: What's your 'it happened in a dream' skin?
2 main ones I've hoped for but won't get, because the champs are unpopular. [Kitsune Kindred](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/3vbluw/kitsune_kindred_skin_concept/) (Art made by JellyEnvy) Skin looks absolutely amazing and I really wish it'd be implemented in one way or another. It also gave me major Okami vibes. [Battle Boss Vel'Koz](https://i.redd.it/h3bggyijh3431.png) (Art made by Amuyopo) Considering this years Battle Boss ( and Arcade in my personal opinion) selection, I think it's needless to say that this would have trumped the real skins.
Haze97 (EUW)
: As someone who plays Renekton he didn't need any buffs. This one however fucks Riven up so I'll still welcome it.
I personally think that effect should be put on empowered E tbh. Gives the empowered abilities more trade off so you don't always just use W and then Q.
: "But My Build Doesn't Include QSS"
For all the people complaining about QSS being for AD champs, getting cleanse or timing zhonyas very well during the channel also work. Additionally, it is always possible to use stuns, silences or displacements, but you do need to predict it well. Worst case scenario, {{item:3102}} can stop any insta death realms, and force him or his allies to hit you first.
: @Riot; Allied minions are team-killers but we have a potential solution
While at first this sounds good, this has a few flaws. First, you could do insane wave freezing, by standing in the way of minions at the start of a game and cancelling their auto attacks when you force them to move. While wave control is important in league, this seems rather unhealthy for the game. Second, when going against matchups like Thresh, Morgana, Lux, Nautilus or anyone with a single target, skillshot spell that can end up with you dying, how would you be able to use your minions as cover, if they potentially walk away from you and leave you open? Alternatively, it could also be incredibly annoying if someone can just forces their wave toward someone. Not just because it can screw with skillshots, but imagine all the crap surrounding minion aggro. Finally, what happens in situations where someone at the start of their game stands by the minion wave as it's heading to lane, and stops them from even getting past the first few towers?
Pyrosan (NA)
: Would you like to see new champions stop being made and others improved on quality?
Maybe not completely stop making new champs, but certainly slow down with it. A new champ should feel impactful, get a loading screen (*cough* *cough* Yuumi) and have some login theme to go with them. Prior to release though, Riot should only drop a really short trailer or just a few images, and then show stuff off when the champ gets released, (similarly to Jhin getting the Vi, Sona, Garen and Zed teasers). Don't just give us a huge dump of champ info all at once, or you kill any possibility of hype. That way, skin distribution isn't such a nightmare and reworks for outdated champs can be done with some better quality. Additionally, they can have more time to work on those new champions instead of immediately releasing them in somewhat broken states.
FSRER (EUNE)
: But sell way less. And that is what that small million making indie company cares for. Money
> [{quoted}](name=FSRER,realm=EUNE,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=nauu5kqM,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-06-12T12:10:41.245+0000) > > But sell way less. And that is what that small million making indie company cares for. Money But even if they pick a popular champ, if quality decreases because of the forced nature, sales volume decreases. Less Money. Take a glance at the Yas main subreddit. Nobody likes the skin. https://www.reddit.com/r/YasuoMains/comments/bzn8mh/petition_to_trash_battle_boss_yasuo/ https://www.reddit.com/r/YasuoMains/comments/bzh16y/me_after_seeing_arcade_yasuo_in_game/ https://www.reddit.com/r/YasuoMains/comments/bziih7/battle_boss_yasuo_makes_no_sense/ If they want to saturate the game with skins for those champs, fair enough, but at least make good skins people want to buy.
: You said Yasuo/Ezreal/Lux/Kai'Sa right?
> [{quoted}](name=OtakuBurrito,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Efwcw668,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-06-11T20:42:24.920+0000) > > You said Yasuo/Ezreal/Lux/Kai'Sa right? No he said Miss Fortune/Ahri/Vayne/Caitlyn
: 3 cheers for the last balanced/non-toxic champion to be released by Riot Games.
: > [{quoted}](name=Terozu,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=PZ8MMHpg,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-06-07T06:50:26.545+0000) > > Okay look, if you're gonna mock this do it properly. > > {{champion:1}} So > {{champion:34}} you > {{champion:131}} control > {{champion:40}} the > {{champion:89}} elements > {{champion:127}} ? > {{champion:63}} Wow > {{champion:201}} how > {{champion:99}} incredible > {{champion:267}} ! > {{champion:20}} I'm > {{champion:163}} sure > {{champion:142}} no > {{champion:106}} one > {{champion:516}} else > {{champion:92}} in > {{champion:157}} the > {{champion:143}} league > {{champion:57}} can > {{champion:54}} do > {{champion:85}} that > {{champion:56}} one > {{champion:136}} ! wig snatched. (Also I was on mobile at the time so I only had the patience for those)
{{champion:27}} : Say you control the elements one more time and I'm gonna rub Bromine in your eyes lids.
koshkyra (NA)
: Exhaust is dead
I feel like they should revert half of the season 7 nerfs to it. They deleted the 30% atk speed reduction and the flat 10 decrease on armor and mr, but I feel like it'd be fair to get that atk speed reduction back and maybe make it scale with level.
: The problem I see is this: Most champions who stymie one category or another don't generally delete them ENTIRELY. Even if a champ counters minions, they minion champ can still outplay them. This one can't be outplayed. Then there's the fact the ult/kit also counters about 3 other categories of champs. Most minion counters do NOT.
Well, most of the champs with pets have some hard cc to disengage. Heimerdinger E, Zyra E/R, Elise E, Malz Ult, etc. If you can kite the grab by Mordekaiser, land hard cc and maybe use a zhonya, which these champs usually build anyway, you should be ok.
EdgeLady (NA)
: Yeah, I'm upvoting this. Dark Star is such a perfect opportunity to give skins to champions who haven't had them in a long time. Xerath, Rek'Sai, Vel'Koz, even Skarner could work. I know that Riot's trying to play it safe this year because of financial reasons, and I honestly think Karma is a better fit for Dark Star than Orianna, but like...come on. You should have given Shaco a Battle Boss skin for the Arcade event and done a surprise comeback champion for Dark Star instead. Come to think of it, I have a feeling that Shaco and Zilean might be the only champions with big skin gaps getting a skin this year. At least I can have a bit of hope for Santa Ornn come Christmastime. EDIT: By the way, I do want to clarify that I don't think these are bad choices for Event Horizon, but I'm particularly disappointed that **this** was the new Shaco skin instead of saving him for something even more fitting, and instead having a non-moneymaker champion with a large skin gap that **wasn't** already confirmed to be getting a skin this year. That aside, though, I do think that these will be good skins. I just wish that Riot would take a few more risks lately, especially given a couple of their recent choices for Battle Academia.
Agree with Dark Star {{champion:161}} {{champion:101}} {{champion:72}} , but Rek'Sai's effects already have a real Dark Purple colour on her default skin so I think Arcade/Battle Boss would be better for her, and if you want a more serious theme Mecha or Elderwood can work.
WardMyBüsh (EUNE)
: PBE Preview - Dark Cosmic Jhin, Dark Star Karma, Dark Star Shaco patch 9...
First Mordekaiser rework, and now these skins? This design team needs to stop smurfing.
: what champions are the best at cuddling?
{{champion:33}} if you're a masochist.
: > [{quoted}](name=%%%%bearTheBeast,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NTU8INGf,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-05-11T20:29:16.514+0000) > > Despite my post being downvoted, I think this concept as whole won't die down, because as it currently stands, Solo Queue doesn't take personal performance into consideration, which makes games feel somewhat less like a Solo Queue experience. > > Sure we're a team, and if one person loses, we all lose, so if you want to evaluate players on team performance as well, sure go ahead it's a MOBA. > > I may feel alone in this, but doesn't it sometimes feel like the game doesn't really measure your skill at all? If you play your lane effectively, but Bot lane fed their lane, because of a gradual cs difference and the enemy having more lane pressure, don't you also feel helpless at times? > > If you want to stop the enemy who has become increasingly more powerful through the course of the game, you need to win your lane and snowball and hopefully have teammates do about as well as you. > > But if I need to snowball on my own or 2v8 my games, why wouldn't I be evaluated on my own performance? when will people like you understand that stats mean nothing. The dude who is 0/9/0 that is constantly getting 3 people of the enemy team to come towards him is way more impactful than the guy who is 15/0/0 who just comes at the end of teamfights and last hit enemies. The tank/support who makes perfect iniations on the critical members of the enemy is more impactful than the guy who literally just gets kills after everyone protects them and does everything for them. Stats mean absolutely nothing. Playing for stats is the easiest thing in the world to do. It's not hard, it's not difficult and says nothing at all of importance.
K/D/A isn't the only aspect. Vision Score, Wards Placed, Wards Destroyed, Tower Damage, Towers Taken, Objectives Taken, Damage Dealt to Objectives, Damage dealt to Champions Damage Healed/Shielded/Mitigated, Damage Taken, Gold Earned. Just didn't list them all, because I'm not the smartest person, but I'm not completely stupid. If KDA was the only importance, the game would just be kill farming over and over again. Hell, KDA doesn't even have to be there as long as there are numerous other factors assessing my individual play and giving me LP to reflect that, to some extent. That's why KDA wasn't the only factor listed above. :/ It was so supports and Tanks like Maokai, Thresh, Alistar and Malphite can feel like they're good shot-calling and/or peeling actually means something, besides the one honor they get, because the team thought the Kai'sa spamming AA was what won. And, to be honest, I'm not sure how it's like on NA servers so I won't judge that, but on EUW, it takes a bit longer than First Blood for the game to be decided or for most of my teammates to give much input. Most people I see only start considering an FF once the first team fight is lost, or if the bot lane starts dominating.
Kanzler (NA)
: How many time does this dumb idea need to be shot down before you people get it?
Despite my post being downvoted, I think this concept as whole won't die down, because as it currently stands, Solo Queue doesn't take personal performance into consideration, which makes games feel somewhat less like a Solo Queue experience. Sure we're a team, and if one person loses, we all lose, so if you want to evaluate players on team performance as well, sure go ahead it's a MOBA. I may feel alone in this, but doesn't it sometimes feel like the game doesn't really measure your skill at all? If you play your lane effectively, but Bot lane fed their lane, because of a gradual cs difference and the enemy having more lane pressure, don't you also feel helpless at times? If you want to stop the enemy who has become increasingly more powerful through the course of the game, you need to win your lane and snowball and hopefully have teammates do about as well as you. But if I need to snowball on my own or 2v8 my games, why wouldn't I be evaluated on my own performance?
Rioter Comments
Nhika (NA)
: Despite all of the Vayne and Lucian buffs
While Lucian is on the weaker side, you're out of your mind if you think Vayne needs buffs, when she has literally zero counterplay late game. You can't build against True damage, she has insane mobility, freelo stealth because she exists, worst rageblade abuser, and picking her top has no counterplay at all, unless your jungler camps you. To make it worse for top lane, she not only gets movespeed towards you, which gets tripled when she ults, her tumble which has almost no cooldown later, her E is a disengage stun which basically means that Vayne gets to decide when she wants to fight.
: You have to remember that riot is a company, and skins is their main source of revenue on this game. As such, making skins for champions that few people play, and even fewer will buy, wont make them a lot of money. So the popular champions get more skins.
> [{quoted}](name=PhoenixFire18,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=zjY13WqM,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-05-04T17:34:24.131+0000) > > You have to remember that riot is a company, and skins is their main source of revenue on this game. As such, making skins for champions that few people play, and even fewer will buy, wont make them a lot of money. So the popular champions get more skins. All I'm reading and inferring is: Riot is business, but unlike other businesses, should never try and cater to any of their niche demographic. Since this niche demographic will not be as profitable as the mass demographic, due to lower sales volume and subsequently sales value, they aren't worth working for and other games/businesses can have them instead. This will allow us to reach an equilibrium where we have players who only play popular champions with many skins, and most of these players will be content for long periods of time. Honestly though, I'd rather Riot just tell me I'll never get a Kindred skin ever since it's not profitable enough, so I don't get disappointed that Lux gets an Ultimate, 3 Epics and a prestige skin before Kindred gets some damn chromas.
Verxint (NA)
: By % bonus HP I mean a bonus to HP that is a percentage of your HP. Since it's a percentage, it gives everyone the same relative increase to durability. For comparison, a flat 500 HP is much more valuable on someone with only 1500 HP than someone with 4500 HP.
No, it isn't. The only exception for this, is if you factor in resistances, like Armor and Magic Resist or any other extraneous variable. 500 HP is 500 HP, It won't take the enemy Zed any longer to kill that new 500 HP whether it's on the enemy Sivir or the Mundo. Comparatively? Sure, it would be better on the ADC Sivir, but from a mathematical point of view, unless the damage being done to you, **IS ALSO A PERCENTAGE **, they benefit exactly the same.
: Ryze, Aatrox, Jayce, Rengar, Graves, Cho'gath and Garen are played even less. They don't seem to be lacking skins though.
Ok , I agree with all except Ryze. His last skin was in 2016 (which was also an esports skin btw) , and he doesn't have a single epic skin priced at 1350.
Terozu (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=%%%%bearTheBeast,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Ow7hmb26,comment-id=000400000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-01T00:07:50.354+0000) > > Idk, Wukong seems more anime, considering he has am enchanted Bo staff, is based of the Sun Wukong Folklore which has oriental origin, tying into Dragon Ball/Z as well. Trained by an old Master (Master Yi), loves fighting and has a somewhat snarky attitude, but also the typical shonen protagonist vibe. > > Ezreal and Lux just sell better, because they're so generic and uninteresting they can fit any non-evil skin line. > Change my mind. Name a single popular anime with a monkey humanoid for the main character? Dragon Ball Z doesn't count since all he has is a monkey tail which was cut off. Wukong is from Japanese mythos, not from anime. His attitude is definitely animesque, but it ends there. Since everything else comes from Myth, (even the evolution from trickster to more respectful playful is from Wukong's arc in Journey to the West). Saying he's animesque is like saying Cassie is animesque since there's lamia anime.
> [{quoted}](name=Terozu,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Ow7hmb26,comment-id=0004000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-01T00:11:42.795+0000) > > Name a single popular anime with a monkey humanoid for the main character? > > Dragon Ball Z doesn't count since all he has is a monkey tail which was cut off. > > Wukong is from Japanese mythos, not from anime. > > His attitude is definitely animesque, but it ends there. Since everything else comes from Myth, (even the evolution from trickster to more respectful playful is from Wukong's arc in Journey to the West). Saying he's animesque is like saying Cassie is animesque since there's lamia anime. Since when were myths, completely unable to be comparable to modern anime? Fox spirits (Chinese) or Kitsune (Japanese) are both folklore and mythology, and yet people consider Ahri anime-esque? The personality, traits and attitude is literally what defines a character, not just their visuals. That's why Cass isn't anime, because her traits, personality and attitude is about Greek Mythology, and isn't anime because she is tactical and sadistic. Her personality and quotes reflect this, and whilst she does have a villainous demeanour, it's not nearly over the top enough for Shonen anime. Wukong does, as he is a part of many character archetypes in anime, almost a carbon copy of some Shonen characters, and you even stated it yourself, he is anime-esque. You're basically saying, if Wukong was the exact same, but human, he'd be perfect for this skin line. >Name a single popular anime with a monkey humanoid for the main character? Here's my response to that question: Name a single popular anime with a human in it, as a main character. Do you see how stupid that question sounds? There aren't many female anthropomorphic-goat-fallen-gods in popular anime, but that didn't stop Star Guardian Soraka, did it? And yet, Star Guardian Soraka is a respectable skin and pretty anime, if you ask me. The only thing Lux and Ezreal have over other champs is that they are generic, have high play rates, and can be put literally anywhere in a non-evil skin line, and be a safe bet for Riot. The fact that your question focused on what Wukong looks like and me needing to find a monkey humanoid, over finding a character that acts like him or shares abilities and powers or other interesting traits, only proves my point. **Ezreal and Lux just sell better, because they're so generic and uninteresting, they can fit any non-evil skin line. Change my mind.**
Terozu (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=DrCyanide,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Ow7hmb26,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-30T23:36:08.922+0000) > > ... No, he literally wasn't. He is far closer to Indiana Jones. > Ironically, this gross mistake on your part further proves my point. He's generic, and you inserted him where you wanted to insert him. > > Which is a fine reason to have her in Star Guardians. But it doesn't lend much of a reason for her to be in an anime tech academy setting. You realize, he was literally based on Urihara? http://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mczdvnDvkV1r84v8eo1_1280.jpg As in he was literally a blonde ~~Urihara~~ Ishida? With the arrogant attitude and magic energy bow? He even has the Hare Hare Yukai dance, from _another_ anime. And had a _Dragon Ball Z_ reference. The dude was based on Quincy from Bleach, it's where his entire kit came from. They decided to lean him more towards Indiana jones way later in development. Since Ezreal is designed to be a stock shonen protagonist, he is the one who it makes most sense to fulfil the stock shonen protagonist in a skinline. Since Lux is his love interest, why the heck would anyone else take the love interest spot? The two of them are the most animesque champs in the entire game, by a _significant_ margin. No one else makes as much sense as them. No on.
> [{quoted}](name=Terozu,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Ow7hmb26,comment-id=00040000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-30T23:41:23.388+0000) > > You realize, he was literally based on Urihara? > http://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mczdvnDvkV1r84v8eo1_1280.jpg > > As in he was literally a blonde Urihara? With the arrogant attitude and magic energy bow? He even has the Hare Hare Yukai dance, from _another_ anime. And had a _Dragon Ball Z_ reference. > > The dude was based on Quincy from Bleach, it's where his entire kit came from. They decided to lean him more towards Indiana jones way later in development. > > Since Ezreal is designed to be a stock shonen protagonist, he is the one who it makes most sense to fulfil the stock shonen protagonist in a skinline. Since Lux is his love interest, why the heck would anyone else take the love interest spot? > > The two of them are the most animesque champs in the entire game, by a _significant_ margin. No one else makes as much sense as them. No on. Idk, Wukong seems more anime, considering he has an enchanted Bo staff, is based of the Sun Wukong Folklore which has oriental origin, tying into Dragon Ball/Z as well. Trained by an old Master (Master Yi), loves fighting and has a somewhat snarky attitude, but also the typical shonen protagonist vibe. Ezreal and Lux just sell better, because they're so generic and uninteresting they can fit any non-evil skin line. Change my mind.
Sukishoo (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=%%%%bearTheBeast,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=XlxtQQFo,comment-id=001d,timestamp=2019-04-30T18:30:38.443+0000) > > {{champion:35}} {{champion:26}} : Am I a joke to you? Confirmed to be coming this year
> [{quoted}](name=Sukishoo,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=XlxtQQFo,comment-id=001d0000,timestamp=2019-04-30T20:28:11.811+0000) > > Confirmed to be coming this year Sure, they might, but it doesn't change the fact that Riot treats those champs like crap.
: Battle Academia Skins (Ezreal, Graves, Katarina, Jayce, Lux and Yuumi)
{{champion:203}} {{champion:35}} {{champion:26}} {{champion:13}} {{champion:72}}: Am I a joke to you?
Verxint (NA)
: Actually %bonus hp is just as good on squishies as it is on tanks. 5% more durability is 5% more durability.
But if a tank is 4500 in terms of durable and an adc only 1600 that 5% is 225 on the tank and only 80 on the adc.
iDarkWind (EUW)
: That sounds good on paper, but nowdays he brings CDR on runes + Cosmic Insight and his first purchases are components of Zhonya's and Protobelt's that have CDR ({{item:3108}} + {{item:3067}} ) and gets easy acess to at least 25% CDR + 10% from scaling runes + 10% from Transcendence at lv10. He invalidades his early game problems by doing so while buying Doran's shield against hard matchups so that he can stay back and only focus on farming and the enemy can't really punish him unless he makes a lot of mistakes. Overall, he's still a problem in mid lane too, it isn't only a top lane factor. He has got a pretty safe lane considering the monster he becomes mid and late game.
One thing to remember though is, you're not actually pointing out his weakness, which is all ins. You're talking about consistently poking him, which is what you'd do against a Garen. I mean, sure, poking does work, but as you yourself pointed out, Vlads will have to be really stupid to let that happen, and it's impractical since it's not his weakness. However, Vlad dmg is horrible early. Using a W more than once early or spamming E is never worth and either forces back, or puts huge kill pressure on the Vla player. Riven beats Vlad, because she can all in him easily. Fizz (when mid) beats Vlad, because he can all in easily. Irelia (sometimes if plays smart and starts corrupting potion) beats Vlad, because she can all in easily. All of Vlads counters in his lanes, just need high all in dmg and some form of mobility so they can reach him ( or any ranged match up really), then you notice that his cdr means nothing in all ins, until he hits that sweet 3 sec Q and E. Edit: Grammar
: How is vlad balanced?
Vlad is less op mid lane and way more op top lane, simply because him and other top laners (Cass or Kennen come to mind) can easily invalidate melee match ups with their range and move speed or cc. I might get downvoted for this, but Vlad DOES have a weak early game, BUT it's only way more noticeable when he's mid, since he'll have to use W more and E will be his only way to keep dmg high enough for all ins. Plus, you can actually punish him if he tries to do a non-empowered Q. At level 3, he'll have maybe 700hp? Maybe a bit more. W+E does 28% max together, so that's maybe about 200 HP he's losing, on his own accord. If you look at his mid lane stats, he's actually a fairly balanced match-up, even in high elo, and his ban rate comes from top lane abuse. Honestly, I think the problem is less Vlad and more strong ranged top laners in top lane. It would be really nice if Riot buffed items like Dorans shield or {{item:3211}} for melee champs like getting more HP back, or gave tanks and bruisers more ability or opportunities to get on ranged champs, so they're less oppressive in general, like adding a sort of Bork or Gunblade active on some tank/bruiser items that apply a small slow for a few sec, or something like that.
: It's the fact that it counters an entire classes of characters. If you're ranged you literally can't do anything as with this insta kill meta by the time the wall is down the fight is over.
But doesn't Rammus have the same thing, countering pretty much all adcs as well? Not saying Rammus is broken, but he stomps anyone who is AD or most people who are immobile for that matter, and can usually kill you before taunt is over if you at the late game or he got fed after some ganks. Hell, he doesn't even need minions to get to you, because of {{item:3800}} and {{item:3742}}. Take that along with the slow on his Q, taunt and stacking slow on his ult which can rack up after said taunt, and you cant run away well either once he gets onto you. Only reason he isn't banned as much is because Rammus is less flashy, and has a low pickrate, because of it. Think the issue (besides having an annoying lane phase if your ranged) is that so many people want to play Yasuo, which makes the rest of us sick and tired of Hasaki and Sorye ge- lose elo. But on a side-note, if someone says they main adc, I instantly take their input with a grain of salt, because they are arguably the most catered lane out of all 5 roles. Not saying, adc players shouldn't have an opinion, just saying you guys are kind of spoiled as is.
Feel Apathy (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Done25,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ni6RVgGq,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-04-19T13:01:56.217+0000) > > Hecarim becomes progressively weaker as the game goes on. So long as you don't lose the lane you'll have a good chance of winning the match. Not true. At 0 items he's okay At 1 item he's meh At 2 items he's insane At 3 he's unbearable At 4 he kill you if you're less than 2k hp & 100 armor within 2-3 seconds At 5 he'll outduel most champions, tank ridiculous amounts, self heal and provide AOE damage to chunk melees/backline.
Actually, one thing about hecarim self healing, is that the heal mostly comes from the backline carries (if you don't know what I mean, his W heals him for 30% of the dmg enemies take from ALL sources when in the circle, including his backline) . If you manage to have some teammates aggro the enemy backline and keep hec from getting within W range of them, Hec heals from barely anything in team fights, especially if he builds tanky and not Death's Dance. Also, I'd say he's only a good duelist during laning phase. He definitely loses duelling abilities later, at the cost of being a great engage and disruptor. Renekton, Jax, Nasus, Kled, Urgot or any real Juggernaut or bruiser can survive Hec and out duel him, given they are equal in terms of items, and play well.
: You think that delaying her damage steroid by more than double, significantly reducing the uptime on her movespeed boost, and increasing her mana costs to boot wouldn't delete her from the game?
> [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fM3dmZJG,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-15T09:23:32.377+0000) > > You think that delaying her damage steroid by more than double, significantly reducing the uptime on her movespeed boost, and increasing her mana costs to boot wouldn't delete her from the game? You think that the rate at which she acquires her damage steroid is healthy? Mfw someone thinks an S+ tier champ is going to get deleted, because they can't abuse her op abilities anymore. {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}
Dr Dog (NA)
: rek and yasuo arent assassins and kayn only is if your stupid and take the worthless form, kha zix is one of the most "in" assassins and not hard to hit with one cc spell and ruin late game because his "get out of jail free card" is a reset on kill and his engage and without his ult he cant even teamfight aka if he uses ult to get out of a bad engage hes worthless if you just start a fight after akali is very high risk ever since her true stealth was remove along with her diver-type playstyle and shes in a generally shit place rn zed is getting nerfed and has 2 dashes one of which is restrictive shaco doesnt take flash and has only his ult to keep him alive in a fight after his q is used to engage ekko is aonther assassin that you can just cc when he goes in a kill him before he ults out, even if he does it would be a waste if he couldnt kill anyone not to mention ekko is a shit laning phase unlike most assassins evelynn is basically ALL melee range with her ult as her ONLY escape shes very easy to deal with simply by throwing down a control ward in a fight and she basically worthless most of these are just petty hashinshin arguments because im guessing you lost to an assassin last game
> most of these are just petty hashinshin arguments because im guessing you lost to an assassin last game Leave Chadshinshin out of this :(
LAFFEN (EUW)
: PETITION FOR RIOT TO CREATE A "TRADITIONAL SKIN" FOR THE VOICE ACTOR OF NASUS WHICH HAVE PASSED AWAY
: > [{quoted}](name=%%%%bearTheBeast,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=XolE0uzJ,comment-id=000100010000000000010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-11T13:03:22.935+0000) > Your stupidly busted Riven is. Riven in 9.3 was @19 in terms of winrate at 50.8% What happened to riven @9.4? literally nothing she got vfx changes only @9.4 she moved to 1st and has been keeping top 3 win rate since What happened 9.4? @9.4 conq got reworked to ferver of battle + life steal + true damage in combat with champions Now this was the busted tier conq giving up to 75 adaptive force at 5 stacks @18 which got repeatedly nerfed for a few patches but she is still keeping a top 3 win rate? so what is happening here she got 0 buffs since 9.1 which was a minor health regen buff and 10seconds off of her ult now when you factor in the fact rivens often get 40-45% cdr at around lvl 7-9 thats a 5-6s cooldown cut on her R Nothing major What else happened for her to keep that win rate? you guessed it bro Nothing She got Conq and that made her from an average 50% win rate to the OMG RIOT PLS NERF RIVEN 54% win rate yes nerf riven please and last on comment from me on DD vs BT because your ignorance is outstanding You play fiora You hit Q on a vital at lvl 18 with 425 ad and lets say you only have DD as a life steal item 124 base ad + 301 bonus ad =425 ad (just for easier calc since the vital is @100ad increments) That would result in 16% max hp true damage lets say you are hitting a chogath with 4k hp at this point in the game that would be 640 true damage bonus and give her 115 hp from the vital The Q would deal 110+115%*301=456 physical damage lets say cho gath has 200 armor that would negate 67% of that physical damage equating to ~150 physical damage +640 True damage =790 Total damage NOW BT would life steal 20% from 150 damage and give you back 30+115=145 health back BUT DD would life steal you 15% from 790 = 118 +115 =233 health back which is better in terms of life steal? Now your argument about yasuo is fine sure but it's very very situational and only works for a very short time as the tornado if you have BT will most likely 1 shot the whole wave BT is an anti burst and poke item DD is an in fight sustain item these are your distinctions If you want to live through a fight you buy DD if you want to survive a fight you buy BT ie ADCs buy BT to not get blown up Riven buys DD to stay in your face and smash you
> [{quoted}](name=Ornndyr2k19,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=XolE0uzJ,comment-id=0001000100000000000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-11T13:56:15.099+0000) > > Riven in 9.3 was @19 in terms of winrate at 50.8% > What happened to riven @9.4? literally nothing she got vfx changes only > @9.4 she moved to 1st and has been keeping top 3 win rate since > > What happened 9.4? > @9.4 conq got reworked to ferver of battle + life steal + true damage in combat with champions > Now this was the busted tier conq giving up to 75 adaptive force at 5 stacks @18 which got repeatedly nerfed for a few patches > but she is still keeping a top 3 win rate? so what is happening here > she got 0 buffs since 9.1 which was a minor health regen buff and 10seconds off of her ult now when you factor in the fact rivens often get 40-45% cdr at around lvl 7-9 thats a 5-6s cooldown cut on her R > Nothing major > What else happened for her to keep that win rate? > you guessed it bro > Nothing > She got Conq and that made her from an average 50% win rate to the OMG RIOT PLS NERF RIVEN 54% win rate > yes nerf riven please > > and last on comment from me on DD vs BT because your ignorance is outstanding > You play fiora > You hit Q on a vital at lvl 18 with 425 ad and lets say you only have DD as a life steal item > 124 base ad + 301 bonus ad =425 ad (just for easier calc since the vital is @100ad increments) > That would result in 16% max hp true damage lets say you are hitting a chogath with 4k hp at this point in the game that would be 640 true damage bonus and give her 115 hp from the vital > The Q would deal 110+115%*301=456 physical damage lets say cho gath has 200 armor that would negate 67% of that physical damage equating to ~150 physical damage +640 True damage =790 Total damage > NOW BT would life steal 20% from 150 damage and give you back 30+115=145 health back > BUT DD would life steal you 15% from 790 = 118 +115 =233 health back > > which is better in terms of life steal? > > Now your argument about yasuo is fine sure but it's very very situational and only works for a very short time as the tornado if you have BT will most likely 1 shot the whole wave > > BT is an anti burst and poke item > DD is an in fight sustain item > these are your distinctions > If you want to live through a fight you buy DD > if you want to survive a fight you buy BT > ie ADCs buy BT to not get blown up > Riven buys DD to stay in your face and smash you Sigh. Dude I'm gonna make a short one now. Look man, Riven got indirect buffs, and benefited a lot more from Conq and shojin, than any other laner or jungler, with the exception of Jax. Not everyone got better by the same amount from the new item and conq change. Some champs do better ({{champion:58}} {{champion:240}} ), others do worse ({{champion:14}} {{champion:266}}), and few change roles ({{champion:120}} ). Unfortunately, Riven benefited too much. She's always been a bit of a strong champ in soloQ, by having a bit of everything and has similar problems to yas and having huge powerspikes, mobility, damage, mid/late game tankiness, permanent sustain after a few lifesteal items, and aoe. First it was with ghostblade, now it's with DD and shojin. She needs nerfs now, because it's unhealthy for SoloQ to an extent where it's not fun or fair, especially for a low skill floor champ. She doesn't need to be nerfed into the ground yet, just keep the champ under control give her some nerfs to bring down her presence. Honestly replying is becoming a drag, so this will prob be the last reply.
: > [{quoted}](name=%%%%bearTheBeast,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=XolE0uzJ,comment-id=0001000100000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-11T10:45:17.986+0000) > Yes it does, get out of here, Yasuo never builds Death's Dance, because it's worse in every way. Less Q healing, less aoe Q healing, less tornado healing, less auto attack healing, get out of here. Fiora builds DD, but she doesn't benefit from it as much as bloodthirster, since her Q will heal her more if she gets Bloodthirster. Fiora of course builds it anyway, since fioras love lifesteal. bruh are you incapable of understanding the difference between life steal and omni vamp?
> [{quoted}](name=Ornndyr2k19,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=XolE0uzJ,comment-id=00010001000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-11T11:25:48.969+0000) > > bruh are you incapable of understanding the difference between life steal and omni vamp? Are you incapable of understanding that omni vamp on DD is 1/3rd (normal single target attacks do 15% healing, but aoe only 5%) on Yasuo's aoe Q to normal death's dance passive, whilst bloodthirster retains everything? And the omnivamp, whilst it does heal on auto attacks, Bloodthirster has 5% more lifesteal. That's why yas mains never build it. His Q's are treated as basic attacks, but are still considered aoe after the first target hit, meaning the more units yas hits with DD, the less healing he gets as compared to bloodthirster. Once again, Fiora still benefits from bloodthirster a lot more considering all of her dmg, except her W and Ravenous hydra passive which is her only source of non auto attack damage. In terms of winning items, Bloodthirster has a higher winrate than Death's Dance, by a marginal amount. This doesn't mean she won't build both, it just means bloodthirster is stronger for her. More so she's a bottom tier champ anyway, so that still doesn't justify riven being op either. And while we're on the topic of DD, it's actually been optimised for adcs, since last season, it only healed physical damage, but now it heals physical, magical and true damage, meaning that hybrid carries adc's like kai sa, kog maw and varus use it even better. But they don't, because the item isn't op and isn't better than their adc items. Your stupidly busted Riven is.
: > [{quoted}](name=%%%%bearTheBeast,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=XolE0uzJ,comment-id=00010001000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-10T22:54:32.948+0000) > > Aatrox sucks in soloq, Only one tricks or new players are picking him and he's at a 47% winrate, idk even why you brought him up as abusing DD too well. Argument invalid. > ... what does win rate of a champion have to do with that champion benefiting from an item? DD heals from every damage source including true damage thats why YI can solo baron with ravanous hunter or dd because the healing from the true dmg is insane DD is a 4-5th item for bruisers on most you can't ignore steraks and triforce and usually you go either spear or GA 3rd Riven is the only one that can ignore everything and go DD spear straight because she scales from CD and AD only and these items give her what she wants while Jax camille for instance need atk speed and some health to not straight blow up again champion viability doesn't matter DD makes most bruisers unkillable at 4items+ BT is 80ad + shield + 20% life steal DD is 80 ad + 15% omni vamp + 10% cdr and + 30% potential damage reduction Bt is designed for ADCs to prevent getting 1 shot because of the health shield which is more valuable than the damage reduction since you may bleed out if you are not able to vamp it off Just because fioras Q and Yasuos Q apply on hit effects doesn't mean they should build BT instead of DD Red kayn is one of the best conq abusers dunno if you've never seen how a red kayn is played or should be played The champs i listed benefit a lot from the item but it's only good as a 4-6th item except for riven who can build it first and be fine due to her spammable shield The reason i don't want champ nerfs because of busted items is because when the items get nerfed or removed the champions are forgotten there are plenty of examples of Riot nerfing champions first and then their items ... Quinn with the multiple champ nerfs and then removing Triforce and Yomuus which were her main items and then leaving her without a build that makes sense for 2 years
> [{quoted}](name=Ornndyr2k19,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=XolE0uzJ,comment-id=000100010000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-11T08:41:23.921+0000) > > what does win rate of a champion have to do with that champion benefiting from an item? If you really don't know, it acts as an indicator to show, statistically, how strong a champion is compared to their counterparts, when using the same item. The winrate a champion has, in addition to the pickrate of an item shows how a champ can use certain items well, regardless of match-ups, game lengths and other extraneous variables. If a champ has a high item pool with each item having 45-55% pickrates on the items, it shows it doesn't matter too much which item is built first, thus they don't abuse an item. However, if a champion has a high pick-rate on an item, but a normal win-rate, it shows that the champion has a core item, something they need to be relevant throughout the game. Bork, DD, cleaver and Trinity are good examples of this. If many champions, all get this core item with a high pickrate, BUT ALSO have high winrates when they get the item, the item is op. If one champ outperforms everyone else, to a massive extent, by getting this item, and not many others keep up, the champion is op. Because if the champ has a high winrate and pickrate, it means their broken and abuse an item. If the champ has a low winrate and low pickrate, the item is a crutch so the champ isn't utterly useless and they can stay in the game. If there is a champ that uses the item and isn't op, and there is a champ that uses the item and IS op, than you nerf the champ that's op. Otherwise you make one innocent champ irrelevant. It happened to Kindred right after adc item rework, hence why they needed to buff her again. >DD heals from every damage source including true damage thats why YI can solo baron with ravanous hunter or dd because the healing from the true dmg is insane First off, Yi has a high winrate, and abuses rageblade for true damage, just like vayne. That's why he's strong. Yi's true dmg is on his E, WHICH ARE AUTO ATTACKS. Bloodthirster heals him on that anyway. Only reason yi's get DD over bloodthirster is because they prefer Q sustain, which isn't affected by the AOE heal reduction on DD, but still let's Yi's hit everyone in a fight. Plus, idk why your listing yi, a champ just as problematic as vayne in terms of true dmg, as a point to defend riven. Nerf his true damage on E, preferably that AD scaling, and you alreadly solve half of the problem. The other half is on rageblade which works in conjunction with his passive to make him do true dmg numerous times on every few atuo attacks. >DD is a 4-5th item for bruisers on most you can't ignore steraks and triforce and usually you go either spear or GA 3rd Riven is the only one that can ignore everything and go DD spear straight because she scales from CD and AD only and these items give her what she wants Yeah, that's the issue. Riven has everything to make her strong, from shield, to mobility, to aoe cc, aoe dmg, to sustained dmg, to burst dmg. She benefits from going full dmg and you can't play against it, if the riven has a brain. Also, if a champ needs to build an item 4/5 they aren't abusing the item then. Vayne rushes rageblade. Zed rushes duskblade. Riven rushes DD. Jax rushes Spear or trinity. (more trinity tho) They abuse those items hence why they are op and get them as soon as possible. But nobody else rushes them? Renektons usually get cleaver or ravenous before DD. I myself get shojin only if I am playing against an aggressive top laner who wants to engage fights a lot and I'll need that extra power-spike with my ult, otherwise I always get taimat first item, and build ravenous for wave clear. With your flawed logic, since everyone builds GA last item half the time, GA is op. But we all know it isn't, it's just practical or chamms have no other items they desperately need. >again champion viability doesn't matter DD makes most bruisers unkillable at 4items+ Dude, watch gameplay of the game in general, and you'll know just how wrong this is, as long as we aren't talking about Jax or Riven. Sure you can't 1v1 them anymore, but most bruisers are great duelists, so your logic is flawed here. Only time it doesn't work, is when the team bunches up, and take ravenous dmg, plus any AOE active. Also, grievous wounds can mess you up, considering {{item:3075}} {{item:3076}} {{item:3123}} {{item:3033}} {{item:3165}} all have it, and bring that healing right down. >Just because fioras Q and Yasuos Q apply on hit effects doesn't mean they should build BT instead of DD Yes it does, get out of here, Yasuo never builds Death's Dance, because it's worse in every way. Less Q healing, less aoe Q healing, less tornado healing, less auto attack healing, get out of here. Fiora builds DD, but she doesn't benefit from it as much as bloodthirster, since her Q will heal her more if she gets Bloodthirster. Fiora of course builds it anyway, since fioras love lifesteal. >Red kayn is one of the best conq abusers dunno if you've never seen how a red kayn is played or should be played He has an average winrate (50%) in general, picks it 50% of the time, and conq rune set-ups only have a 51% win rate. You don't what your talking about if you call a normal winrate, and pick rate, "abusing" it. >The champs i listed benefit a lot from the item but it's only good as a 4-6th item except for riven who can build it first and be fine due to her spammable shield So she abuses it, at least considering her win-rate, ban-rate and her pick-rate. >The reason i don't want champ nerfs because of busted items is because when the items get nerfed or removed the champions are forgotten See the thing is, I catch on to this crappy excuse. If you nerf the items, everyone will be weaker in general, meaning that whilst riven's dmg goes down, everyone else will as well. Meaning her win-rate won't fluctuate. She'll remain top tier and stomp all her lanes. All the strongest top laners are range abusers like kennen and vlad (which she can beat due to mobilty and cc, plus good sustain, maybe not as well with these hypothetical item nerfs) or other bruisers/juggernauts like kled. Your only defense to your argument, is that Riven may hypothetically become under-powered, which is a poor argument that is entirely baseless.
: > [{quoted}](name=%%%%bearTheBeast,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=XolE0uzJ,comment-id=000100010000000000010000,timestamp=2019-04-10T09:37:07.395+0000) > But let me ask you this. > > Why aren't there more death's dance and Spear abusers? Only popular picks I know unhealthily abusing DD (that aren't riven) are {{champion:120}} and {{champion:6}}. Hec got buffed recently because he did kind of leave jg a bit and DD was more of a crutch for him than anything and urgot himself got nerfed pretty hard after being busted. Why shouldn't Riven have the same happen to her? > > For spear, Jax actually needs some more nerfs and the other abuser is Renekton, who barely has a positive winrate. If there is a champ who does everything Riven does, but doesn't have a stupid pick-rate, ban rate and win rate, why shouldn't the champ be directly nerfed? beacause its abused mainly by exclusive physical damage dps champions draven is a good dd abuser for example aatrox, camille, darius, irelia, fiora, illaoi, red kayn, even yasuo benefit a lot from DD (i don't know why yasuos tend to go BT instead tho it's a mistake) Urgot plays exactly the same with and without items His atk speed is locked his movement is telegraphed his skill execution is set ie nerfing stats is a viable way of nerfing him since his playstyle doesn't change based on other factors but if his playstyle changes due to builds then nerfing those builds that are OP is the better choice This is how Riot dealt with Ezreal finally but it's also how they should have went about it at the beginning instead of chipping away at Ezreal himself another example Tank jax is disruptor and plays completely different than bruiser jax if you are fine with tank jax but not bruiser jax you shouldn't nerf jax but nerf the bruiser items that means it's not the champion that is strong but the items are strong as i said riven just abuses these items too well and thats why you see the stats but the champion riven is fine thats why i don't want riot to nerf Riven but to nerf her Build through spear and DD I don't like Riot nerfing champions and then eventually nerfing their builds because in that manner they just remove them from play entirely
> [{quoted}](name=Ornndyr2k19,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=XolE0uzJ,comment-id=0001000100000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-04-10T11:04:14.628+0000) > > beacause its abused mainly by exclusive physical damage dps champions > draven is a good dd abuser for example > aatrox, camille, darius, irelia, fiora, illaoi, red kayn, even yasuo benefit a lot from DD (i don't know why yasuos tend to go BT instead tho it's a mistake) > > Urgot plays exactly the same with and without items > His atk speed is locked > his movement is telegraphed > his skill execution is set > ie nerfing stats is a viable way of nerfing him since his playstyle doesn't change based on other factors > but if his playstyle changes due to builds then nerfing those builds that are OP is the better choice > This is how Riot dealt with Ezreal finally but it's also how they should have went about it at the beginning instead of chipping away at Ezreal himself > > another example Tank jax is disruptor and plays completely different than bruiser jax if you are fine with tank jax but not bruiser jax you shouldn't nerf jax but nerf the bruiser items > that means it's not the champion that is strong but the items are strong > > as i said riven just abuses these items too well and thats why you see the stats but the champion riven is fine thats why i don't want riot to nerf Riven but to nerf her Build through spear and DD > > I don't like Riot nerfing champions and then eventually nerfing their builds because in that manner they just remove them from play entirely Aatrox sucks in soloq, Only one tricks or new players are picking him and he's at a 47% winrate, idk even why you brought him up as abusing DD too well. Argument invalid. -------- Camille doesn't have a crazy winrate it being around 50 to 51%, and doesn't even build DD that often, argument invalid. ---- Darius sucks in general a bit and doesn't builds deaths dance that often either, argument invalid. ---- Irelia sucks right now with a 49% winrate, and tbh I have only seen irelias get DD as a last or 2nd last item, and even then rarely. ----- Fiora doesn't abuse DD as much as Bloodthirster, remember Q (it's similar to yasuo Q so it's a basic attack), AA, E and R are all boosted by bloodthirster, DD just improves her ravenous hydra (barely I might add) and W, so argument invalid. Hell she isn't even top tier or even an above 50% winrate. ----- As someone who plays Kayn a bit, Red Kayn is just strong in general, but he doesn't synergise with dmg items outside of Cleaver and DD, but I'll give you this. ---- Yasuo doesn't benefit from DD at all, except his puny E dmg, and his actual ult, so you were prob confusing DD's passive with Bloodthirster for a bit. Once again Bloodthirster for his Q and tornadoes. Argument invalid. ---- Draven...once again, doesn't abuse DD as much as Bloodthirster...sigh. He's only even strong though because, he counters vayne, sivir and twitch the hardest, who are picked a lot right now, plus the bloodthirster buffs a few patches pack. Argument invalid. ---- Sry, but I feel like you don't really know what your talking about the stuff above Urgot's play style didn't change due to buffs, it's because riot changed his W to a toggle at Rank 5 and gave the shield to his E, making him a walking deathtrap that was ranged and you couldn't kite without dying, basically a better darius. They changed urgot directly, because urgot himself is the problem. Just like riven herself is the problem. A disruptor, tank Jax, sorry, sounds like the dumbest thing. You don't take advantage of his passive or ult active in a tank jax. It just sounds like you Q, E and then hope for the best while you wait 8 seconds on E cooldown. Even so, yes, you would nerf (or in this situation rather change) Jax directly. If you want a disruptor Jax, Change ult active so bruiser jax isn't tanky, maybe give him tenacity or something? Idk, fill in this blank. Lower atk speed and AD growth Lower E cdr at rank 5 only. Also lower E dmg at all ranks, but increase range. Lower base damage on E considerably, but let E passive stack damage stack up to 200%. Increase Q range but also increase CD and lower AD scaling. That would turn current Jax into a more disruptor, and get in the middle of the enemy team, get rid of his dmg so bruiser becomes less viable, without hurting items or absolutely hard gutting his bruiser path, but still making it much weaker. This also emphasises his ability to disrupt the enemy team, whether a supp trying to peel for the backline or channel from an artillery mage. As you yourself said:"riven just abuses these items too well and thats why you see the stats". RIVEN ABUSES THEM TOO WELL (and Jax). Renekton and Red Kayn (he doesn't abuse conq or spear so that's fair at least) do a little bit not gonna lie, but not even on the same level as those other 2. Nobody else does, at an unhealthy level. The champs you listed either don't build the item, or still suck with it. Wanna know why? Because Riven is OP and the others aren't.
Rustypug (NA)
: unpopular opinion
{{champion:203}} because it's a 2-in-1. One has floof, and the other is such a heckin' good boy.
: > [{quoted}](name=%%%%bearTheBeast,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=XolE0uzJ,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2019-04-09T15:36:49.983+0000) > > What? How is it really easy then? Especially considering it's plat+ where my data comes from, this should mean that most people know how to lane fairly well. this is where your argument completely falls off a cliff At D1 laners become barely competent and junglers it's hard to say even in masters Everyone knows how to play against a tryndamere correct? stay at range kite his ult healing reduction armor try not to fight him with full fury easy correct? why do most tryndamere mains still win lane at min 2? and then completely shit on your top laner? it's easy to understand what a champion does playing properly around what he does isn't easy to execute always Riven has a fuckton of awful matchups thats why she is balanced the items she buys and at 40% cdr make her weaknesses no longer relevant Renekton still has his weaknesses regardless of the items but with spear he can comfortably penta in the buff duration as shown multiple times by the renekton otps TF blade still demolishes teams solo with Jax at 2-3 items you still don't understand that the items make them busted and not the kits because the counter play is known but the items remove that counter play
> [{quoted}](name=Ornndyr2k19,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=XolE0uzJ,comment-id=00010001000000000001,timestamp=2019-04-10T09:00:49.226+0000) > > this is where your argument completely falls off a cliff > At D1 laners become barely competent and junglers it's hard to say even in masters > > Everyone knows how to play against a tryndamere correct? > stay at range kite his ult healing reduction armor > try not to fight him with full fury > easy correct? > why do most tryndamere mains still win lane at min 2? and then completely shit on your top laner? > it's easy to understand what a champion does playing properly around what he does isn't easy to execute always > > Riven has a fuckton of awful matchups thats why she is balanced the items she buys and at 40% cdr make her weaknesses no longer relevant > Renekton still has his weaknesses regardless of the items but with spear he can comfortably penta in the buff duration as shown multiple times by the renekton otps > TF blade still demolishes teams solo with Jax at 2-3 items > > you still don't understand that the items make them busted and not the kits > because the counter play is known but the items remove that counter play To be honest, nothing you've said here is wrong, but you haven't disproved anything I've said either. Look, what your saying isn't right, but it isn't entirely wrong either. Yes, Riven, Renekton and Jax perform strongly against champs due to their strong itemization. None of them have gotten too many direct buffs recently, hell, Jax got nerfed sometime during the very start of the season if I remember right, so their buffs either came from runes being changed, their counters getting nerfs, or of course item changes. But let me ask you this. Why aren't there more death's dance and Spear abusers? Only popular picks I know unhealthily abusing DD (that aren't riven) are {{champion:120}} and {{champion:6}}. Hec got buffed recently because he did kind of leave jg a bit and DD was more of a crutch for him than anything and urgot himself got nerfed pretty hard after being busted. Why shouldn't Riven have the same happen to her? For spear, Jax actually needs some more nerfs and the other abuser is Renekton, who barely has a positive winrate. If there is a champ who does everything Riven does, but doesn't have a stupid pick-rate, ban rate and win rate, why shouldn't the champ be directly nerfed?
: 18% is fairly low ban rate considering the maximum is 200% that means that riven is getting through in 8 out 10 games that is a very low ban rate the high win rate is due to and only due to these 3 things spear conq and deaths dance nothing else all 3 of these are strong as fuck on anything that can use it effectively jax, renekton, riven, jax being the strongest since he reaches a 6 item power level at 3 items olaf and trundle are weak regardless of setup because they don't have good ways of fighting people consistently like the above 3 if you nerf spear and conq riven goes down a lot riven is fairly punishable in so many matchups as i said it's really easy and understood how to play against a riven executing on the counterplay is where people struggle thats why she has high win rate and low ban rate
> [{quoted}](name=Ornndyr2k19,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=XolE0uzJ,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2019-04-09T11:07:22.798+0000) > > 18% is fairly low ban rate considering the maximum is 200% that means that riven is getting through in 8 out 10 games > that is a very low ban rate > > the high win rate is due to and only due to these 3 things > spear conq and deaths dance > nothing else > all 3 of these are strong as fuck on anything that can use it effectively > jax, renekton, riven, > jax being the strongest since he reaches a 6 item power level at 3 items > olaf and trundle are weak regardless of setup because they don't have good ways of fighting people consistently like the above 3 > > > if you nerf spear and conq riven goes down a lot > riven is fairly punishable in so many matchups > as i said it's really easy and understood how to play against a riven > executing on the counterplay is where people struggle thats why she has high win rate and low ban rate 18% isn't low? For context, that puts her at the 15/16th most banned champ, which is not low. Low is something like Kindred and Xerath who comparatively both have a 1.6% ban rate. "Riven has a 17.8% ban rate. I don't know where that "Riven doesn't have a high ban rate" came from" That was literally the first line of my previous comment, and you insist Riven has a low ban rate. Seriously? High winrate being only to those 3 things? {{item:3812}} {{item:3161}} and conq? It's not her kit having twice as much mobility as say renekton? Or having almost twice as much cc as Jax? Both being some of the next biggest users, which you've mentioned? Or having a shield that scales with AD, meaning there is little to no sacrifice for her building full dmg? I just want to say it's stupid to balance two items and a keystone around a single champ, instead of vice versa, but fair enough. However, Renekton, at the time of posting this, will build all three of those things (Spear, DD and conq) and is sitting at a 50% winrate and a 6.6% pick rate and ban rate. Jax, albeit still cancerous, has both a smaller winrate and pickrate than Riven. (Jax is banned more, but ban rate doesn't matter if they both have absurdly high ban rates) Sorry chief, this should be a wake-up call that Riven needs some hard nerfs in the meantime, until she isn't busted. If she needs to be buffed later on, then Riot can buff her if she falls off too hard, but please nerf her. Also... "it's really easy and understood how play against a riven" "executing on the counterplay is where people struggle" What? How is it really easy then? Especially considering it's plat+ where my data comes from, this should mean that most people know how to lane fairly well.
: Riven doesn't have a high ban rate beacuse people know how to play against her whether they execute against her is another issue Akali had a huge ban rate when she had 46% win rate because people didn't know how to play against her but she was so weak that it didn't matter when she was actually picked When spear gets nerfed and if conq gets nerfed this will bring riven down Riven the champion has been balanced for a long time she just fluctuates hard due to other reasons
> [{quoted}](name=Ornndyr2k19,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=XolE0uzJ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-04-09T08:39:45.182+0000) > > Riven doesn't have a high ban rate beacuse people know how to play against her > whether they execute against her is another issue > Akali had a huge ban rate when she had 46% win rate because people didn't know how to play against her but she was so weak that it didn't matter when she was actually picked > > When spear gets nerfed and if conq gets nerfed this will bring riven down > Riven the champion has been balanced for a long time she just fluctuates hard due to other reasons Riven has a 17.8% ban rate. I don't know where that "Riven doesn't have a high ban rate" came from. Also just shy of a 54% winrate too with a 13.6% pick rate. https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Riven/Top/ Don not nerf Shojin and Conq, JUST ,because riven abuses it so heavily, being an actual low skill floor champ. Nerf the damn champ itself (Jax as well tbh), and you'll see that the only few who can actually do work with that set-up are Olaf, Renekton and surprisingly Trundle ( Kled sort of?), who aren't top tier anyway. The worst offender is prob renekton, but he at least has high cooldowns and fairly punishable pre 6. If you seriously think you need to nerf one of the only viable bruiser runes and an entire item, just so Riven herself isn't touched, you need to take another look at that champ. She has 4 gap closers, a shield, cc, and a build which freely lets her build cdr at no expense, meaning she can spam as soon as she builds her first item. Yeah, a lot of people who are at least gold elo can take care of a riven, doesn't mean it's a fun match-up or that she can easily come back into the game with great waveclear.
: {{champion:136}} {{champion:28}} {{champion:25}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:10}} {{champion:134}} {{champion:142}}
> [{quoted}](name=AngusBoomPants,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ePEOBpcW,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2019-04-03T07:44:11.429+0000) > {{champion:142}} This post here officer.
: And 2% ban rate. So shes broken yet nobody at any elo including competitive bans her. Why? Because shes not a problem when shes strong, why do you want nerfs for her exactly? She doesnt create nor warp a meta, she like nami/sona are champs that dont break the game when they are strong (and the later 2 have been very strong for years too btw yet nobody talks about nami 54% wr 18% pick rate). Its better for champs like that to be strong than something like lucian, when lucian is meta almost every other adc becomes unplayable and the meta becomes lucian vs the 1~2 adcs that can survive lucian (which is usually ezreal). OP is a lucian main btw, the second any adc can actually contest his champ its obviously cause its broken op and needs to be nerfed, only lucian is allowed to have a pickrate above 15% and wr above 52% for years straight.
> [{quoted}](name=Anime Fizz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UV6c4V9Y,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-04-01T22:54:23.902+0000) > > And 2% ban rate. > > So shes broken yet nobody at any elo including competitive bans her. > > Why? Because shes not a problem when shes strong, why do you want nerfs for her exactly? She doesnt create nor warp a meta, she like nami/sona are champs that dont break the game when they are strong (and the later 2 have been very strong for years too btw yet nobody talks about nami 54% wr 18% pick rate). > > Its better for champs like that to be strong than something like lucian, when lucian is meta almost every other adc becomes unplayable and the meta becomes lucian vs the 1~2 adcs that can survive lucian (which is usually ezreal). > > OP is a lucian main btw, the second any adc can actually contest his champ its obviously cause its broken op and needs to be nerfed, only lucian is allowed to have a pickrate above 15% and wr above 52% for years straight. Nobody bans jinx, because they're busy banning vayne, zed or yas. Jinx goes under the radar, because despite being kind of busted, we have worse offenders that have less counterplay or are straight stupidly busted, that riot refuses to nerf.
: Extremely Lewd Thread With a BIG, THICK Surprise Within!!!!!
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PedobearTheBeast

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