: That's entirely backwards. Sorry, but that's just not how it works. It's an enormous risk to spend time on a skin only a few people will actually buy. They don't have any obligation to promote champions people don't already like. Even after begging, hardly anyone bought Battlecast Skarner, Deathsword Viktor, Arclight Yorick, etc. The claims of a few people on that champ main's reddit don't even equate to the same number in sales.
> [{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=8PUJ8RBX,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2019-07-16T04:00:09.605+0000) > > That's entirely backwards. Sorry, but that's just not how it works. It's an enormous risk to spend time on a skin only a few people will actually buy. > > They don't have any obligation to promote champions people don't already like. > > Even after begging, hardly anyone bought Battlecast Skarner, Deathsword Viktor, Arclight Yorick, etc. The claims of a few people on that champ main's reddit don't even equate to the same number in sales. That's because everyone got his tastes. I love bc skarner, but i don't like vik aesthetic nor his gameplay. So what, Viktor mains should never expect a skin because of that? Is that progressive to you? However time and effort was put in vik deveolpement, as with any other champ. And it's unfair for riot to trash an entire playerbase because "their champ is not profitable enough". If riot doesn't care, and the small playerbase can't do anything about It, what will It be of the champion? Who can act to improve his situation? God? Fate? Excuse me but this way of thinking will only promote distance and negligence between riot and the small playerbases, i cannot see it doing anything good.
: Stop making threads asking for champs to get skins, and
You forget that it's riots responsibility to make certain champions more appealing than others. What you're asking Is unreal: immagine a thread telling people to buy skarner skins so skarner gets more. Why would you kai'sa player spend your money on a skarner skin, if you don't like the character, nor the skins. If people don't like the existing skins, most logical thing would be to ask for more interesting ones. The biggest demographic that would buy skarner skins would be his mains, and maybe a small number of people interested by them. A kai'sa skin bought only by his playerbase would still mean 30% of the playerbase, and more "outsiders" Conclusion Is that riot has to acknowledge that of 134 champions, some will be more profitable than others (check). It has to put apart its greedynees (hard pill to swallow, but prove me wrong, especially in these recent patches) and promote its own champions. Because good skins can be attractive, as buffs are
: Lobster Skarner skin
At first i was skeptical, but then i thought about something similar...Giant Enemy Lobner, or Deep Terror Skarner. spires are like ships floating when uncapped, and when skarner caps them they become wreckages on the bottom of the sea (map terrain), with strong, storm-like currents at the edge of the spire; W can be some kind of dark water surrounding him, or creepy looking coral reef E i don't really know...some kind of projectile tho. R could work like tentacles spawning from his tail and grasping the enemy
Rioter Comments
Globux (EUW)
: I, for one being an old Skarner player before masteries were a thing, think his kit at this moment does have a lot of the flaws named by you. The thing is just that, since you already stated it correctly, he´s used in pro play and that very successfully. Therefore we can say that it is also less his kit, but more the way you introduce the team and general mechanics to him. Coming from that I guess we can be sure to not see a rework any time soon, except fore maybe, like also said, a revert. This is, because Riot shifted a lot of things from older times back into the game that were a thing before the bigger class updates in general. These being a more streamlined and competitive jungle and clearer tendencies of runes / masteries. Skarner always profited from getting a wide variety of items in his kit, but since the reworks of the classes these have drifted away to more specific roles where he just does not falls into to. What I guess he need´s is, like you claimed, a more streamlined identity on his back and a clearer way of playing and building for casual players. He´s someone that always has been quite tanky and been focused on locking down, so I thing this should stay. but it also feels good when you become fast and dangerous when boosted by the crystals. What we need here then is a clear direction of one and the other one needs to fall more behind. Atm it´s like crushing to styles in one, which can work, but only if one becomes less significant and time consuming (collecting the spots e.g.).
> [{quoted}](name=Globux,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=7Zmn3Jst,comment-id=00310000,timestamp=2019-07-12T22:26:49.013+0000) > > I, for one being an old Skarner player before masteries were a thing, think his kit at this moment does have a lot of the flaws named by you. The thing is just that, since you already stated it correctly, he´s used in pro play and that very successfully. Therefore we can say that it is also less his kit, but more the way you introduce the team and general mechanics to him. > Coming from that I guess we can be sure to not see a rework any time soon, except fore maybe, like also said, a revert. This is, because Riot shifted a lot of things from older times back into the game that were a thing before the bigger class updates in general. These being a more streamlined and competitive jungle and clearer tendencies of runes / masteries. Skarner always profited from getting a wide variety of items in his kit, but since the reworks of the classes these have drifted away to more specific roles where he just does not falls into to. > What I guess he need´s is, like you claimed, a more streamlined identity on his back and a clearer way of playing and building for casual players. He´s someone that always has been quite tanky and been focused on locking down, so I thing this should stay. but it also feels good when you become fast and dangerous when boosted by the crystals. What we need here then is a clear direction of one and the other one needs to fall more behind. Atm it´s like crushing to styles in one, which can work, but only if one becomes less significant and time consuming (collecting the spots e.g.). oh a fellow skarner main, thank you for sharing your insight! for reference i've bene playing almost only skarner since the beginning of s4, and now i got 780k - ish mastery points (M7). i could go on with the flaws of his kit, crossing his Q being too empty in general, and surely not fit for a tank, his spires requiring an unjustified effort from your team to be kept, all the time that get's wasted to give new champions/vgus animations for capping the spires, and so on. the minimum he needs is a polish of his kit, something that gives him a field where he excels, (he only got this clear weakness of being kited, QSS, pop the shield to break the ms buff, etc), a niche: he's most successfully played as tanky character, but Q is just dps (not even sheen procs, since sheen items are hardly built anymore), spires give attack speed to make him the "premier objective controller". they did not succeed at doing so, and the attack speed feels just out of place. on the other hand most mains (me included) want him to be a damage dealer: some say a skirmisher, i'd say a juggernaut is more proper, interesting, and in line with his original concept. what set him apart from his counterparts is his cc, the spires were really not needed, surely not in set in that way. he got the weakness of having to work his way up to you in order to deal damage/cc, and he also got good scalings, let say that. what went wrong is that building damage on him makes him so squishy it's not even worth it. so maybe his passive could be something that gives survivability, and if it could be usable also in lane, that could be called a day for me. however juggernauts are not really popular in proplay, unless op, like was urgot some patches ago, so it's harder for riot to shift that way. Sorry for this parenthesis, but i was curios to see what do you think of it. I see we think alike, we agree on the fact that skarner managed to synergy with lots of items and runes, and this is also because you could say he scales almost with everything. but for how remarkable that is, this is not in line with riot's new philosophy, and him not being popular between the devs, only makes things worse, because it's harder to get a feeling of what he should be. one thing for sure, every long term update he receives should aim at giving him a clearer place in the roster. Another point we agree on is that he could become more interesting to more players with a GU. skarner sure has one of the smallest, if not the smallest playerbase, but almost all of it is made by people who played him for a really long time, got stucked to his character and gameplay, and made it work through the metas. new players hardly would have such dedication, being more used to new champions, who got much more agency and depht gameplay wise, and clearer niche to specialize into. the update could solve that, hopefully not making him exaggeratingly popular, but just increasing his playerbase by a 4% would be good. this could also mean he could get featured more in promo material, he could get skins more often. for how much hate they get, you're right also on the spires bringing up some good points. planning around them feels successful and rewarding, and refreshing as it also differs from the usual get to the carry/ult the carry playstyle. one thing i love to do in the river is to lure the enemy jungler into capping the spires, and then ambush him. they give you sustain, the give really alot of stats. but the tradeoff is heavy, playing in lane feels like a handicap, and keeping track of them feels unjustified for the importance they got, especially when that has to involve the whole team.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 12
Heya! Any thoughts on {{champion:72}} ? I get that he's played in lcs, but there are fundamental problems in his kit, which gets, more and more outdated, and makes him struggle as the rest of the roster gets updated (last example is the shield breaking mechanic being added on certain champions). It is also really hard to get developers thoughts on {{champion:72}} , which is kinda frustrating, so i'll try to guide the discussion with some particoular questions: ideally how do you see skarner? do you think he'll be better being a tank, locking down people and making use of defensive steroids (which is now his most successful build across the board), or is there a chance to make him into a unique and interesting juggernaut? "the predator that once it ran you down, it never lets go"? I'm asking these because i think one of the main things that made it hard to rework skarner, is that he's a generalist, and most of his mains are used to that trait. You might have seen his builds being switched from ad to ap, to tank, and so on, depending on what was better for the meta. But this also presents negative sides, because for how many things you can build him into, he won't excel at any of that: he might be a pocket tank, but proper tanks do the job better; he might be built inot a skirmisher, but proper skirmishers do the job better, etc. Also, this clashes with the concept of giving him particular strenghts and weaknesses, because again, it's hard to determine what skarner is right now. So will the rework aim at giving skarner a more definite niche? Also, is a revert, or a partial one at least, on the table, at least as a bandaid before the vgu? i know reverts are being handled with cautiously, but i think {{champion:72}} is a legit candidate to be looked at: sure the jugg update has his pros (shield finally scaling off of max hp%, jungle sustain, E feeling rewarding and satisfying to proc/combo with R, etc) but pre jugg skarner was what best incarnated the fantasy of playing skarner, without the problems from his spire passive. Thank You
: I feel your pain, friend of mine is a xerath main.
> [{quoted}](name=UmbraStar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ThssZX5E,comment-id=00250001,timestamp=2019-07-12T05:17:06.022+0000) > > I feel your pain, friend of mine is a xerath main. i mean gameplay wise the character is fine, we're just waiting for a skin since 1500+ days =p
Barkley (NA)
: Xerath maybe but skarner has been a meta pick for like 2 seasons.
> [{quoted}](name=Barkley,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ThssZX5E,comment-id=00250000,timestamp=2019-07-12T04:33:25.135+0000) > > Xerath maybe but skarner has been a meta pick for like 2 seasons. allow me to disagree. seeing him being picked occasionally by team liquid doesn't make him meta, as organized play is pretty much different from soloQ. Also his kit has certain parts cough*spires*cough*Q*cough which are not really fun and sure and not cohesive, and prevent him to actually have a definite place in the game, especially since more and more champions are getting mechanics in the form of CC/mobility/shieldbraking (soon) that fucks him up even more. literally the only people that somehow make him work are the people who mained him since seasons ago, and got tons of mastery on him, and even at that point is a struggle
: Nothing feels worse than loving a champion who isn't on Riot's favorite list
{{champion:72}} and {{champion:101}} main, do i need to add anything :p?
: Xerath Skin Concept
I can see it becoming a cool skin if black and yellows are well balanced
Kazekiba (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Shahamut,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PAEmlkjN,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-09T23:02:09.536+0000) > > Your point? Im not asking for jugger-snot Skarner. I want this current iteration destroyed. I want pre-juggeraut Skarner back. Skarner wasn't "Strong" 4 years ago. He literally tilted the entire balance of the game to the point of "If they lock in skarner, dodge or AFK it's over." 4 years ago. He was strong at the beginning of the season, and can potentially come back into pro meta, if tank items keep getting buffed. > HIS ULTIMATE DOES 20 FRIGGIN DMG AT RANK 1! Because it's a Suppression that lets him drag you into his team or under his own turrets? It's the single strongest ability in the game, being point-and-click Hard CC, a displacement, and having a long duration all at the same time. The damage doesn't matter at all. Reverting Skarner to pre-juggernaut patch would result in him being even more forgotten and useless than he is now.
> [{quoted}](name=Kazekiba,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PAEmlkjN,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-10T16:09:49.368+0000) > > Skarner wasn't "Strong" 4 years ago. > He literally tilted the entire balance of the game to the point of "If they lock in skarner, dodge or AFK it's over." 4 years ago. He was strong at the beginning of the season, and can potentially come back into pro meta, if tank items keep getting buffed. > > Because it's a Suppression that lets him drag you into his team or under his own turrets? > It's the single strongest ability in the game, being point-and-click Hard CC, a displacement, and having a long duration all at the same time. The damage doesn't matter at all. > Reverting Skarner to pre-juggernaut patch would result in him being even more forgotten and useless than he is now. He was not useless pre juggernaut, he simply was not as popular, because he was balanced and the only people playing him were actuaslly his mains. But he was fun, and going lane skarner didn't feel like an handicap match. he was discovered again by the pros when 4 years ago his rework made him broken. but he could still multistun, his ulti was the same. the main difference is that now he requires the whole team to mantain control of his spires if he wants to stay relevant through the game. He's outdated and needs a update
: Didn’t skarner literally just get changes like 3 months ago to benefit his clear and his invading?
> [{quoted}](name=SpaghettiVase,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PAEmlkjN,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2019-07-10T10:28:33.299+0000) > > Didn’t skarner literally just get changes like 3 months ago to benefit his clear and his invading? more like they bring his clear in line with the junglers. krugs were outside the spires, and that made them so unconvenient to clear either you ignored them, or spent alot of time to clear them
Shahamut (NA)
: When is Skarner going to get some love?
Agreed, Skarner needs at least a revert. What i love the most about skarner is the "run people down/ lack them and maul them" gameplay: It felt so rewarding being able to grind people down as you stuck to them. Now i only get to run people down (at times) but then i deal no damage, because his most successful build is tank, but obviously your damage is not that relevant. also small thing i guess but....I'D LIKE TO GO TOP AGAIN WITHOUT BEING IN A HANDICAP MATCH. I think a problem between riot and skarner might be what can they make him into: Skarner has always been a generalist, being good at different stuff, without actually exceeding at none of them, in a world where almost any champion exceeds at doing something. for example: he can be a pocket tank, but not as good as proper tanks; he can be a pocket skirmisher, but he gets so squishy it's not even worth most of the time; he can be a pocket ap caster (really niche), but proper ap champs just do the job better than him. This is why it's important to clear out his identity, and make him to excel at something. want him to be a better tank? rework his Q as it's just mere dps, rework the spires entirely, or at least to give something it helps in tanking/cc instead of 160% AS at lvl18 that feels kinda useless on him. Want him to be a better ad? give him some survivability, damage is ok, but even after steraks you're just so squishy. in my personaly opinion, he needs to be polished into a proper juggernaut, as running down people to lock them down and maul them is more of a juggernaut gameplay. rework the spires, and give him something he can use allover the map
: I would be glad if a rioter answers me this. Why do you refuse to give Skarner actual damage?
Agreed. You know, ad skarner kinda worked even after the sterak-trinity combo nerf, especially with the introduction of conqueror, which gave him some survivability before building trinity and sterak. what really put the nail on ad skarner's coffin is the nerf to conq. now going ad makes you so squishy even after those two items. so now the most effective way to play him is going tank But conq can't be buffed back ofc, So best thing woud be to compensate skarner's damage for the losses from steraks's scalingwith bonus ad. I'd probably go too for adding base dmg, which compliments with his tank builds.
: Varus and Miss Fortune were said to be HIGHEST PRIORITY for a VO Updates and then Lee Sin get's one
: Scorpions, especially big ones, aren't really all that venomous. They're better known for overpowering prey with their claws and powerful armor. Skarner fits better as a 'run down' Juggernaut, like Udyr or Volibear, that locks down and destroys a single target with his claws and stinger than one who focuses on envenoming enemies.
> [{quoted}](name=Variks the Loyal,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UpX0BEFO,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-07-05T20:37:03.109+0000) > > Scorpions, especially big ones, aren't really all that venomous. They're better known for overpowering prey with their claws and powerful armor. Skarner fits better as a 'run down' Juggernaut, like Udyr or Volibear, that locks down and destroys a single target with his claws and stinger than one who focuses on envenoming enemies. you're right, but still venom is a pillar of their hunting pattern. i'd love skarner to be shifted more into a rundown/lock and maul juggernaut. His kit already achieves that in a way, as that was his niche since his announcement. And that is also the feeling i get when playing him, and it's what sticks me to playing him. Crystal venom skarner achieved that. but more can be done to do so, as right now the most successful way to play him is as a cc tank bot, as he's too squishy to be built offensively. i'd like his vgu to finally make him into this predator that runs you down, sticks to you and mauls you.
Shahamut (NA)
: I have suggested many Skarner reworks/partial reverts, and Crystal Venom was a thing I used in them: Passive: Crystal Venom Every 6/5/4 attacks (levels 1/6/11) Skarner strikes with his tail, dealing X% of his targets max HP over 1.5 seconds. For the duration, a target inflicted with crystal venom is weakened, dealing Y% less damage. Q: Crystal Slash (Pre-juggernaut) Base damage plus bonus ad scaling, with additional magic damage while charged. Charges last 5 seconds and all fall off at once, can hold up to 3 charges, charges also grant MS/AS per stack. W: Crystalline Exoskeleton (NEW-ish) Skarner charges his body with Crystal Energy, granting him a shield, tenacity, and increased movement speed for up to 6 seconds as long as the shield holds. Skarner shield has a base value, scales with max hp and AP. E: Fracture (newish) Skarner fires a beam of crystal energy dealing magic damage and slowing all targets hit, marking them for 5 seconds. If Skarner auto attacks a marked target, they are stunned for one second and restore mana to skarner, increased vs champions and large monsters. R: Impale(Same-ish) Skarner imaples a target dealing damage/supressing/dragging etc. When the suppression ends (cleansed or duration ends) the target takes additional Magic Damage and is affected by Skarner's Crystal Venom. Very simple, but effective rework.
> [{quoted}](name=Shahamut,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UpX0BEFO,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-07-05T02:04:16.929+0000) > > I have suggested many Skarner reworks/partial reverts, and Crystal Venom was a thing I used in them: > > Passive: Crystal Venom > > Every 6/5/4 attacks (levels 1/6/11) Skarner strikes with his tail, dealing X% of his targets max HP over 1.5 seconds. For the duration, a target inflicted with crystal venom is weakened, dealing Y% less damage. > > Q: Crystal Slash (Pre-juggernaut) Base damage plus bonus ad scaling, with additional magic damage while charged. Charges last 5 seconds and all fall off at once, can hold up to 3 charges, charges also grant MS/AS per stack. > > W: Crystalline Exoskeleton (NEW-ish) Skarner charges his body with Crystal Energy, granting him a shield, tenacity, and increased movement speed for up to 6 seconds as long as the shield holds. Skarner shield has a base value, scales with max hp and AP. > > E: Fracture (newish) Skarner fires a beam of crystal energy dealing magic damage and slowing all targets hit, marking them for 5 seconds. If Skarner auto attacks a marked target, they are stunned for one second and restore mana to skarner, increased vs champions and large monsters. > > R: Impale(Same-ish) Skarner imaples a target dealing damage/supressing/dragging etc. When the suppression ends (cleansed or duration ends) the target takes additional Magic Damage and is affected by Skarner's Crystal Venom. > > Very simple, but effective rework. What would you like to achieve with that rework? what do you want skarner to become, and how will the rework achieve that?
Kanzler (NA)
: Specifically what I had in mind are various weapon poisons. Mind numbing to slow casting speed, crippling to slow movement, and deadly to do damage over time. These can be cycled through a venom champ as a basic ability to choose which poison you want.
> [{quoted}](name=Kanzler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UpX0BEFO,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-03T20:07:38.666+0000) > > Specifically what I had in mind are various weapon poisons. Mind numbing to slow casting speed, crippling to slow movement, and deadly to do damage over time. > > These can be cycled through a venom champ as a basic ability to choose which poison you want. Splitting between different venoms may be balanced, but It needs a particular kit to make it interesting and cohesive. Also skarner was the wisest and the strongest of the brakerns, so such power could allow him to change the effect of his venom. It depends on what we want him to be
: The weird thing with skarner is they made his 'venom' more of a magical crystal thing, like its not a true toxin it just mineralizes (is that a word?) what he stings, which is only seen during his E auto proc. His R has a beam dragging them that mineralizes his prey (on the outside of their body btw), meaning its not an injection of venom its more like a magical power. Would like them to put more emphasis on him being a scorpion rather than a being that happens to be shaped like a scorpion.
> [{quoted}](name=Tormentula,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UpX0BEFO,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-07-03T18:30:03.117+0000) > > The weird thing with skarner is they made his 'venom' more of a magical crystal thing, like its not a true toxin it just mineralizes (is that a word?) what he stings, which is only seen during his E auto proc. His R has a beam dragging them that mineralizes his prey (on the outside of their body btw), meaning its not an injection of venom its more like a magical power. > > Would like them to put more emphasis on him being a scorpion rather than a being that happens to be shaped like a scorpion. This Is what i'm trying to achieve. I think that could be a good thematic, and fascinating gameplay can be obtained. His claws could be used to actually defend himself, or to hold his targets. Scorpions also burrow and tend to set ambushes, so Imagine some mechanic that allows him to -properly- interact with the enviroment
Kanzler (NA)
: Rekt. Skarner has more of a crystal theme than venom. It would be interesting to see an assassin with a venom theme though. My first thoughts are that a rogue from WoW is a good starting point to ~~steal~~ get inspiration from.
> [{quoted}](name=Kanzler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UpX0BEFO,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-03T18:27:26.470+0000) > > Rekt. > > Skarner has more of a crystal theme than venom. > > It would be interesting to see an assassin with a venom theme though. My first thoughts are that a rogue from WoW is a good starting point to ~~steal~~ get inspiration from. I think Venom as whole Is more excting as a melee. And for sure that niche can be expanded. It's also cool to see skarner stabbing people with his stinger and inflicting DoT How does that Champion from WoW work?
SEKAI (OCE)
: https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steamcommunity/public/images/avatars/99/9947f5e81bfa9193c64455fc938c32ac3756dec1_full.jpg Unrelated, but here is Venomancer from the original DotA mod (uses I think a custom made Hydralisk (Starcraft) model).
> [{quoted}](name=SEKAI,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UpX0BEFO,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-03T15:32:00.271+0000) > > https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steamcommunity/public/images/avatars/99/9947f5e81bfa9193c64455fc938c32ac3756dec1_full.jpg > > Unrelated, but here is Venomancer from the original DotA mod (uses I think a custom made Hydralisk (Starcraft) model). I was talking about League =p
: Darius kinda does that although it's "bleed" instead of "venom"
> [{quoted}](name=Void Kaiju,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UpX0BEFO,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-07-03T15:42:41.686+0000) > > Darius kinda does that although it's "bleed" instead of "venom" They way It works can be different tho
: >the first melee venomous champion? {{champion:27}} Am I a joke to you?
> [{quoted}](name=Chembaron Yamada,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UpX0BEFO,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-03T15:13:20.383+0000) > > {{champion:27}} Am I a joke to you? Lol got it sry :p venomous means it's injected. Singed used poison, which Is inhaled, o injested The patterns are different
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Seba7290 (EUNE)
: New bio for Zilean and stories for Qiyana and Malphite
Imagine forgetting about {{champion:72}} like that lol
: Fuck Jungle
muting everybody on the team from the start of the mach improves massively the quality of the games
: How is Lux escaping nerfs next patch when she's near 100% pick/ban in GM+ games...
: You want to know what makes League feel so bad now?
can confirm it's all like this a year after
: Completely ignoring the other skins they gave to members of the "1000 days without a skin" club because "they're not Xerath." They're fucking working on it. Its June. Still plenty of time left.
> [{quoted}](name=4 Step Cadence,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=OIiNT2xg,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-06-18T21:06:35.737+0000) > > Completely ignoring the other skins they gave to members of the "1000 days without a skin" club because "they're not Xerath." > > They're fucking working on it. Its June. Still plenty of time left. it was 1500 days some weeks ago, but sure let's wait. he was a really popular candidate for both darkstar, and battleboss skinlines, and instead shaco and damn yasuo got the skins, the most improbable and forced characters for the skinline. and kai'sa got 6 skins a year. Understand that i felt the need to say something.
: I've been thinking if a sixth Kaisa skin profits more than a good Xerath skin would. Seems unlikely to me.
> [{quoted}](name=church arson,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=OIiNT2xg,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-06-18T17:41:58.113+0000) > > I've been thinking if a sixth Kaisa skin profits more than a good Xerath skin would. > > Seems unlikely to me. Thank you, however you have to factor some things however: given that the best xerath skin ever could be made, to you and me, and probably the other 6-ish % of the playerbase a xerath skin may be more appealing, and you can only hope that more than that amount will buy the skin. But to the 30% that picks kai'sa even the 7th kai'sa skin may be more appealing than the xerath one. And even if only 50% of the kai'sa player buys the xerath skin, that's already a better revenue from the whole xerath playerbase buying a xerath skin. This is how riot plans things, even tho it's not fair to the players, regardless of you and me thinking a xerath skin is cooler than the kai'sa one. Don't get me wrong, i'd be more than happy to see a xerath skin to be more profitable than kai'sa, but given the stats is a hard guess. Unless the skins team does an amazing and passionate job
Rioter Comments
: It means skarner will never be compensated for harsh indirect nerfs that ruined him (steraks being changed from giving base to bonus ad)
> [{quoted}](name=Tahminatrix ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z0WpqW11,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-06-17T22:06:59.616+0000) > > It means skarner will never be compensated for harsh indirect nerfs that ruined him (steraks being changed from giving base to bonus ad) that, and the conq nerfs kinda killed his ad builds, which were the most fun, and less dependant on the spires. yeah, probably he won't be changed untill his vgu at this point....and i'm not even sure when will that ever happen x)
: He still won't be meta in solo queue any time soon probably. His ult is his main sticking point for competitive teams that can actively play with it but for solo queue shyv does the same thing but isn't as team reliant.
> [{quoted}](name=Fear the Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z0WpqW11,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-06-17T19:57:57.504+0000) > > He still won't be meta in solo queue any time soon probably. His ult is his main sticking point for competitive teams that can actively play with it but for solo queue shyv does the same thing but isn't as team reliant. You're right with the ulti: after all, it's the really unique thing he brings between all the tanks used in competitive. that, and the ability to chain cc. i'd add the fact that the spires allow for a strong early in the jungle, like storng clears, mana sustain, faster roaming through the map. in solo queue he's harder to pull off, because as you said, by building him tank, you need the team to followup with their damage...and good luck with that below plat =p i'm less sure about shyv. she got less lockdown, and i think she's less tankier. also is she that dependant on getting dragons? but in the end, they both bring different things into the game, so it's hard for me to make a diefinite judgement
Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: I'm not involved in the details of individual champion work at this point to be able to talk about specifics when it comes to bugs. I'll occasionally have context on something and be able to respond, or the right person will be really nearby, but generally I don't have the details. In terms of non bug stuff related to Shyv I'll share stuff if we've got anything to mention.
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=PBPEGOHv,comment-id=002a0000,timestamp=2019-06-14T17:17:31.565+0000) > > I'm not involved in the details of individual champion work at this point to be able to talk about specifics when it comes to bugs. I'll occasionally have context on something and be able to respond, or the right person will be really nearby, but generally I don't have the details. > > In terms of non bug stuff related to Shyv I'll share stuff if we've got anything to mention. thank you for clearing this up! so to which developer do i ask an opinion/a thought about {{champion:72}} ? thank you!
: I don’t think Skarner is gutted. He has the best jg winrate plat+ (According to op.gg at least) and is even picked up by the pros. That being said his kit feels pretty bland.
> [{quoted}](name=Raven Redeemed,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=PBPEGOHv,comment-id=001400010000,timestamp=2019-06-14T16:16:27.757+0000) > > I don’t think Skarner is gutted. He has the best jg winrate plat+ (According to op.gg at least) and is even picked up by the pros. That being said his kit feels pretty bland. ouside of organized play he's too much team dependant, because he got little to no agency. He was ok with pre nerf conqueror allowing him to build AD, which wass also his most fun build, thus allowing him to effectively splitpush, and sustain throught fights. with conq nerfed, he's too squishy to build AD, so now he's built as a standard tank CC bot, but unlike most tanks right now he lacks the damage, so he needs the team to follow up on his engages/picks. Good luck with that below plat. Also, he cannot lane because of how much power he'd lose from the spires. This from someone who played almost only him from late S3, through all his reworks
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 14
Hello! Any thoughts on skarner {{champion:72}} and his spires gating him away from laning? thanks!
Tioym (EUW)
: What's the Plan for Akali. It's pretty rude to gut a champion and then not even respond to the people who play it.
> [{quoted}](name=Tioym,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=PBPEGOHv,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2019-06-14T15:34:19.000+0000) > > What's the Plan for Akali. > It's pretty rude to gut a champion and then not even respond to the people who play it. Well, welcome to the club {{champion:72}}
Xavanic (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Dyromic,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cO89Kven,comment-id=000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-14T09:27:23.427+0000) > > Juggernauts are immobile damage machines with no or very little CC in their kits: > {{champion:122}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:420}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:83}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:6}} see the problem this idea is, {{champion:72}} is a jugguarnaut and he has a decent amount of CC
> [{quoted}](name=Xavanic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cO89Kven,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-14T09:37:57.705+0000) > > see the problem this idea is, {{champion:72}} is a jugguarnaut and he has a decent amount of CC to add, id doesn't have the sustain nor the damage of the above: building AD will give up survivability, and viceversa
: Aw thank you xD
> [{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=fErnmvBi,comment-id=000800000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-14T09:05:45.778+0000) > > Aw thank you xD thank you =)
: If you think it's unnecessary to give him changes, then you're part of the problem. His ultimate is like Gangplank's. Sure, _on paper_ it deals more damage than Lux's. Hell, Gangplank's "deals" more damage if you completely ignore the fact people won't be standing in it the entire time. But over the course of a game, because it's more reliable and has half the cooldown, Lux's will deal more damage. In fact, it won't _have_ to deal as much damage, because she can end a game much earlier than Xerath can.
> [{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=fErnmvBi,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2019-06-13T23:51:09.419+0000) > > If you think it's unnecessary to give him changes, then you're part of the problem. > > His ultimate is like Gangplank's. Sure, _on paper_ it deals more damage than Lux's. Hell, Gangplank's "deals" more damage if you completely ignore the fact people won't be standing in it the entire time. But over the course of a game, because it's more reliable and has half the cooldown, Lux's will deal more damage. In fact, it won't _have_ to deal as much damage, because she can end a game much earlier than Xerath can. allow me to better word my thoughts, it was late and i was tired: let's start from the fact that since his rework, xerath is balanced, healthy, he's played consistently by a decent amount of players, has a winrate slightly less than 50% and has never gotten major changes aside from the mage class update. and it's remarkable that he retained these features through 6 years. this is one thing i'm convinced about. with that being said: can changes be done to him? Sure. increased mobility and target access, increased sustain, plus overall increase of damage output from almost all champions sure have made things difficult for the skillshot-reliant xerath. however lots of people who play him are interested in his playstyle, and most likely don't want his overall safety to be buffed. so best way to buff him is to better reward him at what he does good. some of his skills already do that: passive gives you double mana back if you successfully aa a champion; keeping distance while charging Q makes it harder for you to be jumped on, or it allows you for those cool snipes; W rewards you for being accurate, by dealing more damage, and a heavier slow, and sets up his combo; E stun duration scales with distance; R well...R gives you extreme presence across the map with it's range and potential damage, and comboing it with other's cc makes it deadly. if you manage to hit all of the rounds at lvl16 that's one carry down. i get that the way R rewards you with positioning it's a bit blurred beyond "if you position well and hit everything you'll surivive and deal tons of damage" (everyone knows you're not supposed to hit an entire barrage anyways), But it was supposed to be worked on shortly after the rework =/ So what can be done to buff xerath? in my way, these would be the options: - passive: "Every x seconds xerath basic attack restores x mana, and increases his abilities range or max mana or etc by x units, double stack for hitting champions." bonus stacks through the game, so It would be balanced to be relevant after laning phase. Or "every x seconds xerath basic attack restores x mana and After x seconds increases damage of his next abilities for x seconds" This would give relevance to his passive in the mid to lategame, where he can hardly proc it, while also not making him overbearing in the laning phase; Q gives a bonus if cast from max distance: be it damage (or penetration), be it cd refund, be it speed boos to reposition, be it max mana pool, etc; W is fine to me, something extreme i'd do, i would have to, would be to make it stronger if cast at major range, but that would mean reworking it so it loses the amped effect if it hits the center, and maybe it could be more difficult to use it to setup a combo, etc. E idk about it, maybe letting pass through minions, but that's just thrown out, the ability seems fine to me; R i'm unsure. what most people would like about R is to have more synergy with the rest of the kit. that would mean potentially reworking the ability, and tune the rest of the kit around that. several ideas were proposed in the past year, but i cannot remember any of them. also there there are major complaints about how hard it is to hit with it, but i've come to the conclusion to accept it as feature of the ability, and a proof of mastery. What would you do if you were to rework his R? what to just improve its synergy with the rest of the kit? Edit: to end, there sure are changes that can be done to improve xerath by a long way. but given his overall balanced state, and some champions needing attention more than him, i don't think riot will engage into tweaking xerath that easily, likely improbable if that means to rework parts of his kit. I'll probably write a post about this soon, after i'm done crusading for a decent xerath skin.
: Good ideas indeed.
> [{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=fErnmvBi,comment-id=0008000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-14T05:31:26.102+0000) > > Good ideas indeed. Yeah, i'm thinking about editing It in the post, and giving you credit
: It's not... every always says "oh it's hard because he's elemental there's not much they can do.." etc. Other champs aren't restricted by their default forms, so why does Xerath have to be? For example, malphite isn't always some crystalline rock like you would expect.. mecha malphite, odyssey malphite. Other champs can become elemental with skins (e.g. dark star skins). And even if you do limit him to elemental, can still do things like dark star or arcade as have been suggested many times. Riot just don't as it won't sell as much as some anime character like ezreal.
> [{quoted}](name=Muwatallis,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=fErnmvBi,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2019-06-13T21:35:31.041+0000) > > It's not... every always says "oh it's hard because he's elemental there's not much they can do.." etc. Other champs aren't restricted by their default forms, so why does Xerath have to be? > For example, malphite isn't always some crystalline rock like you would expect.. mecha malphite, odyssey malphite. > Other champs can become elemental with skins (e.g. dark star skins). > > And even if you do limit him to elemental, can still do things like dark star or arcade as have been suggested many times. Riot just don't as it won't sell as much as some anime character like ezreal. The main difficulty of making a xerath skin Is his model being 80% particles. My post however shows that several options are a available to make a skin for xerath. But i agree with your main thought, that a champion skin should not be limited by his base model.
: While thinking about it I came up with something else: _Magic Lancer Xerath_. Imagine his Q and W spells turned into magic lances thrusting and falling down respectively. It might sound goofy but I’m sure that with the right VFX it can be really good.
> [{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=fErnmvBi,comment-id=00080000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-13T18:37:23.938+0000) > > While thinking about it I came up with something else: _Magic Lancer Xerath_. > > Imagine his Q and W spells turned into magic lances thrusting and falling down respectively. It might sound goofy but I’m sure that with the right VFX it can be really good. I literally love spears and lances! His q could be a spear that stretches as j4's does (maybe he juggles with It as charging animation?) His w can work as you said E could be another type of spear, or a morning star. R could be javelins His armor could be like the Lancer zero skins, or made up with weapons and blades, like a moving armory
: It's not hard to make concepts for him. They'd make them, but people refuse to play him because he's just a less reliable Lux in pretty much every way: Instead of a damage-oriented passive like she has, he has an outdated mana-restore passive in this era where first-buy items grant 600 mana. In the same vein, he may have more AoE damage for clearing waves, but it's offset by his mana costs thanks to their refusal to adjust them and his passive for the modern game. His method of self-protection is a single-target skillshot stun that stops on the first enemy hit instead of a shield. And his ultimate requires a lot more setup and precision, and is far easier to escape. Nevermind the fact it can't be properly combo'd from his other abilities since it takes far longer than his CC lasts. For someone with unlimited arcane power, he sure doesn't show it by how slow and poorly put together his kit is.
> [{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=fErnmvBi,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-06-13T18:53:14.676+0000) > > It's not hard to make concepts for him. They'd make them, but people refuse to play him because he's just a less reliable Lux in pretty much every way: Xerath gets more effective range and raw Power for being less reliable. He's the true artillery champion, and i think he should be balanced that way, because that Is what xerath mains are looking for. > Instead of a damage-oriented passive like she has, he has an outdated mana-restore passive in this era where first-buy items grant 600 mana. His passive is what keeps most of his kit the way It Is now, but that is to give the enemy more windows to interact with xerath. Lux got his passive to pop with aa, xerath needs the mana. Sure champions got more ways to interact with him since s4, but i don't think he'll get his passive reworked. Right now he's balanced, and more champs need such attention right now. What would you change his passive into? I was thinking at something along these lines: "Every x seconds xerath basic attack restores x mana, and increases his abilities range/max mana /etc by x units" bonus stacks through the game, so It would be balanced to be relevant after laning phase. Or "every x seconds xerath basic attack restores x mana and After x seconds increases damage of his next abilities for x seconds" > In the same vein, he may have more AoE damage for clearing waves, but it's offset by his mana costs thanks to their refusal to adjust them and his passive for the modern game. > > His method of self-protection is a single-target skillshot stun that stops on the first enemy hit instead of a shield. Shield would be pointless unless we're talking about a huge value: once they jump on you, you're dead anyways. Xerath E is also a powerful engage tool. Normally you should play so safe that hardly you'll shoot It point-blank The way it's designed is to enforce both you strenghts and your weaknesses. > And his ultimate requires a lot more setup and precision, and is far easier to escape. Nevermind the fact it can't be properly combo'd from his other abilities since it takes far longer than his CC lasts. His ult however deals a ton more damage, and in late you get 5 rounds of It. Also range Is larger. I agree something should be explored to make It to better synergy with the rest of his kit > For someone with unlimited arcane power, he sure doesn't show it by how slow and poorly put together his kit is. I actually commend riot for releasing such a balanced and yet reasonable rework, looking at their latest trends. Can more be done ? Probably yes. Is it that necessari? Not really
Leetri (EUW)
: Worldwide he has a 5,5% pick rate, which is on the lower end but not bad. But it's also about how many of those players are willing to actually buy skins If only 15% of Xerath players buys skins (in general, not just for Xerath) you're making a skin for 15% of 5,5%, which is basically a guaranteed monetary loss for Riot. Say that 50% of all Ezreal players buy skins, that's 50% of 30,1% of all players. That's a gigantic number compared to Xerath, and basically a guaranteed monetary gain. However if 0% of Ezreal players buy skins, releasing an Ezreal skin would cater to 0% of 30,1%. A guaranteed loss even if Ezreal is super popular.
> [{quoted}](name=Leetri,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=fErnmvBi,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2019-06-13T16:24:10.394+0000) > > Worldwide he has a 5,5% pick rate, which is on the lower end but not bad. But it's also about how many of those players are willing to actually buy skins > If only 15% of Xerath players buys skins (in general, not just for Xerath) you're making a skin for 15% of 5,5%, which is basically a guaranteed monetary loss for Riot. Say that 50% of all Ezreal players buy skins, that's 50% of 30,1% of all players. That's a gigantic number compared to Xerath, and basically a guaranteed monetary gain. However if 0% of Ezreal players buy skins, releasing an Ezreal skin would cater to 0% of 30,1%. A guaranteed loss even if Ezreal is super popular. nice insight, got it. i understand these reasons, but not the point that in 1500+ days (more than 4 years, 4 seasons!) riot didn't make a xerath skin, to make 5-6 for kaisa, and 3-4 for ezreal, etc. the same champions got multiple skins in that window of time. it's too much time to justify this concept. That being said, most small playerbases got affectionated players, who stuck to the niche of the champion through the time. so it's likely that most of them will buy the skin...if it's good of course to end, 5.5%-6% pick rate out of 134 champions is pretty good to me
Sancre (EUW)
: Arcade Core Xerath, Glitched Boss Mordekaiser and Arcade Master Udyr
Jaspers (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Predatorator,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=AfT2TjLm,comment-id=00020000000000000002,timestamp=2019-06-13T09:47:32.353+0000) > > Riot balances the champions tho, sometimes to make them more appealing, you can't tell me there's no bias in there. Remember when Crit items were changed and Heimer started going bot because of Pro? His play rate went up. Received no nerfs or buffs during the time, just ADCs not popping him so easily. In that time he got his first skin in 4 years. Yet at the same time considering this. IF we truely do control who gets skins but what champs we play, why is it Zed only has 3 purchasable skins with 3 legacy. He rarely has below 10% play, is basically a poster boy for the game and will in a couple of weeks have as many skins to purchase in the shop as Kai'Sa does. Sadly, at this time 30% playrate wins out. Just more people are likely to buy a Kai'Sa skin, statistically.
> [{quoted}](name=Jaspers,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=AfT2TjLm,comment-id=000200000000000000020000,timestamp=2019-06-13T12:44:20.046+0000) > > Remember when Crit items were changed and Heimer started going bot because of Pro? His play rate went up. Received no nerfs or buffs during the time, just ADCs not popping him so easily. In that time he got his first skin in 4 years. > > Yet at the same time considering this. IF we truely do control who gets skins but what champs we play, why is it Zed only has 3 purchasable skins with 3 legacy. He rarely has below 10% play, is basically a poster boy for the game and will in a couple of weeks have as many skins to purchase in the shop as Kai'Sa does. > > Sadly, at this time 30% playrate wins out. Just more people are likely to buy a Kai'Sa skin, statistically. consider that zed has one of the highest banrates, so "you won't see him (and his skins) in the game as often" they also buffed him prior to his galaxy slayer skin. also see vayne, getting an unnecessary buff to his ult before getting a skin (and prestige edition) lux never going below 50% wr never sees a year passing without getting at least one skin the list goes on..
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Level 92 (EUW)
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