: What if Aftershock was based on the user's % resistances?
That still would not help tanks much and just utterly kill the rune. Aftershock is not attractive for tanks because it gives them resistances, which they already have a plethora off between their base stats and items (remember, tank items were specifically tuned to be more resistance-focused in 7.9).
Bârd (NA)
: The state of Crit in league is a big part of why item diversity sucks ass.
Personally, I'd love it if Riot hard-capped champions at 2 Crit Items. As in, a player can only buy 2 out of these {{item:3031}} {{item:3508}} {{item:3046}} {{item:3094}} {{item:3087}} and then needs to flush out the rest of his build with other stuff. This would limit ADC's raw, unmitigated DPS to something more manageable (you know, like in the seasons before season 6) and allow for more build diversity. Of course, with this approach, one would need to make the three Zeal Upgrades also come in somewhere around 3300-3400 gold in power. ---- Moment, **3** Zeal Upgrades? What about {{item:3085}} ? Hardcapping Crit Items at 2 would allow a retooling of this item away from Crit Chance. Maybe turn it back into a pure AS item? Or give another interesting stat line? ---- Also, I'd make {{item:3071}} and Lethality mutually exclusive. As in, purchasing Cleaver hard sets your Lethality to 0.
: Hey here are my opinions on some stuff you said! I'm a gold player and mostly main support or jun so these are all just from that viewpoint. 1. Autofill / MMR I heard autofill is an issue for some people that like mid and adc, but those are sort of my least favorite roles so I can't really say too much about it sadly. I pretty much always get the primary role i go for. MMR on the other hand it is just so weird having a team of bronze peeps and on the enemy team just like 2 plats like, why? Skill difference shows every time. Also just like every inequality it always feels like the enemy is in the good spot. 2. Bans It's a bit insane with some stuff people get away with definitely. But it is also extremely hard to tell the difference between intentional and just being bad. If people got banned for being bad, half of us would be out xD I think the tribunal system would be a bit better for it, getting to see who pinged, who the person had muted, and what sort of situations they go into on a regular basis. Not really sure how the system works now, no one really does, but I think it would be hard to make something that takes all that into account. 3. CDR I love CDR. I get it's build on 75% of champs in the game (to 40%), and that currently it's a balancing factor. I do believe there should probably be a system overhaul for it, but it is kinda at the core of the game so much that reworking it would mean reworking the majority of the roster which I don't think will ever happen. Would be nice to have a bit more item freedom for some people but the fact it's a choice to build it or something else is nice. 4. Jungle So i have been maining jungle more and more lately, and I get that the rng gods need to bless you with a good team or you just kinda fail. I sort of see it a lot like playing a support that deals damage (Pyke) but on every lane with minigames inbetween. Objectives are a big thing in the game, early drags are awesome and i like playing the champs that can take it level 4. But even at that point you kinda need your team to make sure you don't get ganked while soloing it. As for gold / exp distribution, I don't know too much about it in all honesty so it's best left silent on me. 5. Problematic champions. Every champion can be a champion me and my friends just say "Really, f... gosh that stinks" (Riot overload i used good words pls no ban). Low skill champs seem to be your biggest issue and I completely understand. But the best thing about them is the champs with higher skill ceilings typically trump them once you know em. Good strategy and ganks can help them be less problematic overall. Some champions have combos that you just think, "How is this fair, what kind of counter play can I even do against this" and the fun fact is that most champs, builds, oppressive combos, have some sort of counter play associated with it! Sometimes it is associated with what champion you play sure, but team communication often helps. To my knowledge the only champ it's better to go against alone than to group up on is {{champion:420}} which in herself has counter play options.
> I love CDR. I get it's build on 75% of champs in the game (to 40%), and that currently it's a balancing factor. I do believe there should probably be a system overhaul for it, but it is kinda at the core of the game so much that reworking it would mean reworking the majority of the roster which I don't think will ever happen. Would be nice to have a bit more item freedom for some people but the fact it's a choice to build it or something else is nice. There's another aspect to that. With the broad availability of CdR, Riot can reasonably expect most champions to have between 20-40% in the late game. At the same time, CdR is actually harder to get than ever in the early game (pre-1000 gold). There's only 1 rune for it (Inspiration's Cosmic Insight) and the CdR stat shard, which only gives 5% CdR by level 9. This makes balancing cooldowns between laning phase and teamfight phase a lot easier.
: will aatrox get buffed in 9.19
Likely not. Earliest I'd expect buffs for him would be 9.20. I'd more likely expect more gameplay-focused changes at a later date, possible early in the next year (given that preseason stuff is coming up).
: Who would've thought than taking away the sole waveclearing ability from a champ almost 100% focused on early game snowballing would've had such impact? It's not like he was already one of the bruisers with the weakest base stats, or it's not like he was already getting bullied more and more by every other toplaners who get powercreeped every 3 patches or so. It's definitely not like he needed lane pressure to be able to do ANYTHING during laning phase! At least he is still a lane sitter with built in huge sustain, right? OH RIGHT! He can't do this anymore either, because guess what? Riot thought nerfing the in-lane sustain of one of the squishiest bruiser, if not THE squishiest bruiser in the game was a good thing!
> It's not like he was already one of the bruisers with the weakest base stats That's utter bullshit. The only stats Aatrox is not at least average in are HP regen (which is bad because of his manalessness and ability-based sustain) and level 1 base AD (60 AD, low for a melee champion...but more than compensated for by a whopping 5/lvl AD growth factor which leaves him #5 in level 18 base AD - and the only champions beating him also have a 5/lvl growth factor).
puśsý (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=ProfDrDeath,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f3AzspMA,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2019-09-11T06:28:48.737+0000) > > Yes please. > > ---- > > **What is the difficulty with giving tanks such an item?** > > There is a couple, from different perspectives: > > - Stonewalling of lanes: If tanks get too much power against their laning opponent, the lane degenerates. Proactivity of both sides of the matchup gets stifled, as the opponent cannot do much against the tank anymore and the tank can act more passively, relying on their teamfight power to carry the day. > An example for this situation would be if Warmog's Armor did not have its HP threshould restriction. If Warmog's Heart worked in lane, the tank would always have full HP, rendering interaction pointless. > - Abuse by non-tanks: I think most of the people here remember tank Fizz and tank Ekko in S5 or, before those, tank Renekton and the Renekton bar (there's no counter!) in S4. > > **Or, to put it differently, what does a tank Power Item need to have to go around the difficulties?** > > - Stat Binding to intended tank stats: Some time ago, Riot seperated tanky guys between being focused on resistances (true tanks) and being focused more on health (other tanky guys, i.e. Juggernauts). That is why Juggernaut items are generally giving a lot of HP with their AD, but not so much resistances. This would keep the tank item out of the hands of non-tanks > - Incentives for Proactiveness: To avoid the stonewalling problem described above. > - No offensive effect: This clashes with the previous point, but it is still important to prevent tanks from having too many offensive stats - otherwise, we'd be back at the "unkillable tanks oneshotting me" problem that led to tanks getting nerfs in the past. > - General power increase: The item needs to make tanks more, you know, tanks. It needs to give them more tankiness. > - Non-situational nature: The goal is to have an item that tanks can buy without having to pay too much attention to the game's general situation. > - Synergy: The item needs to synergize both with tanks' kits and with further purchases. Well, you could somehow gate the item behind a high gold cost (so tanks need bamis + a lot of gold), bad build path, and maybe add some threshold kinda like warmogs passsive to prevent Stonewalling
Maybe I should elaborate a bit more on it, since this morning I only had time to copy some passages that I wrote some time ago elsewhere. ---- The item should definitely have a high gold cost, somewhere in the 3000-3400 gold range - similar to the comparable power items like Cleaver, Blade, Essence Reaver and so. However, gold cost cannot be the only factor to gate it, as gold is something tanks are only average at amassing for themselves (in contrast to fighters and bruisers). Build path wise, I don't think that a tank power item should have a bad build path. Rather, I'd actually prefer it to have a good build path, similar to the other power items. A way to make the item focus on tanks would be to work with the Stat Binding I mentioned - true tank items are mostly focused on resistances over health ever since Riot made tank items more about Armor and MR back in Season 7 (Patch 7.9). However, a problem I see with tanks these days is the meager availability of Health or Pseudo-Health (Riot hit sources of those ever since Runes Reforged - Courage of the Colossus gone, Overgrowth changed to flat values, removal of the 100 HP runes, the aforementioned refocusing of tank items towards resistances...). So, an idea of mine would be to build an item around an effect like this: Unique Passive: Hitting an enemy champion with a CC effect (any CC counts, even soft CC) grants you a shield equal to 100% of your bonus Armor and MR for 3 seconds. Cooldown 20 seconds, reduced by 1 second for hitting enemy champions with spells or auto-attacks (1 second per spell or auto-attack). (Numbers obviously spitballed)
: Because riot hates tanks. They slow down the pro scene and the Koreans REALLY don’t like slow games. That’s the entire reason. Also this problem is also with armor.
> Koreans REALLY don’t like slow games Yet LCK has the slowest pace of all major regions.
puśsý (NA)
: What tanks need
Yes please. ---- **What is the difficulty with giving tanks such an item?** There is a couple, from different perspectives: - Stonewalling of lanes: If tanks get too much power against their laning opponent, the lane degenerates. Proactivity of both sides of the matchup gets stifled, as the opponent cannot do much against the tank anymore and the tank can act more passively, relying on their teamfight power to carry the day. An example for this situation would be if Warmog's Armor did not have its HP threshould restriction. If Warmog's Heart worked in lane, the tank would always have full HP, rendering interaction pointless. - Abuse by non-tanks: I think most of the people here remember tank Fizz and tank Ekko in S5 or, before those, tank Renekton and the Renekton bar (there's no counter!) in S4. **Or, to put it differently, what does a tank Power Item need to have to go around the difficulties?** - Stat Binding to intended tank stats: Some time ago, Riot seperated tanky guys between being focused on resistances (true tanks) and being focused more on health (other tanky guys, i.e. Juggernauts). That is why Juggernaut items are generally giving a lot of HP with their AD, but not so much resistances. This would keep the tank item out of the hands of non-tanks - Incentives for Proactiveness: To avoid the stonewalling problem described above. - No offensive effect: This clashes with the previous point, but it is still important to prevent tanks from having too many offensive stats - otherwise, we'd be back at the "unkillable tanks oneshotting me" problem that led to tanks getting nerfs in the past. - General power increase: The item needs to make tanks more, you know, tanks. It needs to give them more tankiness. - Non-situational nature: The goal is to have an item that tanks can buy without having to pay too much attention to the game's general situation. - Synergy: The item needs to synergize both with tanks' kits and with further purchases.
TehNACHO (NA)
: Ashe isn't the best example, given she's a Utility ADC and has some of the most unique strengths of the bunch. In other words, she does things that ADCs with mobility and ~~self peel~~ couldn't do. There's also the matter that half her kit being devoted to Utility makes it harder for her to be a hypercarry, so of course she's not a big deal damage dealer. [Anyway, just wanted to factcheck](https://champion.gg/statistics/#?roleSort=ADC&sortBy=general.totalDamageDealtToChampions&order=descend). Of the champions you mentioned, Kog'Maw ranks 1 for Damage, Twitch 3, where Xayah, Caitlyn, and Kai'sa rank 8, 7, and **15**. Kai'Sa actually underperforms Ashe (14) of all things in raw damage. Ezreal is the only oddity in this table. Otherwise, if we ignore the Utility ADCs for aforementioned reasons, immobile ADCs widely outperform mobile ADCs in raw damage.
Interesting facts. Especially since Kai'Sa's kit is literally just damage and ways to enable her to do more damage.
Meddler (NA)
: Preseason stuff is the limiter on this one. Once some assets for that are finished we'll be able to get some folks back onto this and another smaller rework that's also currently on hold.
That's good to hear. Since you mentioned preseason stuff, is there anything you people at Riot can already share?
: Eternals Feedback Thread: Set 1 Uniques
For {{champion:133}} : All three of them are cool. I especially like the Harrier damage counter. For the next set, I'd also like to see a counter for the distance travelled with Tag Team...err, Behind Enemy Lines.
: > [{quoted}](name=Metal Janna,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HW8ABzQI,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-31T04:30:19.359+0000) > > True that... > I wonder which hook support will be given the few seconds of CD buff they need to chain CC infinitely this time? my bet is thresh or pyke. Maybe a lux q mana and/or cd buff
Does your name reference 891 Riverside Drive?
: Kai sa an adc
She's not a mage - her auto-attacks are actually her main source of damage. She only has two damage- dealing abilities, and one of those has a rather long cooldown for a non-utility basic ability. She's an ADC, alright - it is just that the A stands for Auto-attack in her case. As in, Auto-Attack Damage Carry. ---- That out of the way, she could still use a bit of a nerf due to her popularity.
: {{item:3035}} in S5 has 40% BONUS ArmPen. Actually 35% Total Armor, more efficient vs every champ and op vs tank. Yes there's not armPen flat from runes, but neither armor. Also u can have letality,additional or true damage from new system. So much champ with true/%/Hybrid damage. Much more CDR for every class( except for tank) Less hp Just for tank item. So yes, u can build more Armor, but don't work aswell.
Wrong. Last Whisper was only changed to bonus ArPen in **preseason 6.** You're the second person that tries to tell me that BS.
: Lol you use things with super saftey and usually builing life steal with free excapes to justify defense not being bad. But sure why would defense be bad when you have on average 1400 less hp than older seasons 80 less armor 70 less magic resist as a full tank build and playing into champions like {{champion:122}} {{champion:86}} one ignoring your defense the other shredding it for the entire team and {{item:3071}} just need one a game not to mention {{item:3020}} {{item:3165}} {{item:3135}} {{item:3151}} {{champion:82}} {{item:3001}} {{item:3036}} {{item:1051}} {{item:3031}}
> 80 less armor 70 less magic resist Got a source for those numbers? If anything, compared to Season 5, effective Armor values have gone up. - Tank items were shifted towards more Resistances over HP. - Armor Penetration items are less efficient: - 35% ArPen on {{item:3036}} (2800 gold) compared to S5's 40% on {{item:3035}} (2300 gold) - 6 stacks a 4% on {{item:3071}} compared to S5's 6 stacks a 5% - No more 6% total ArPen from runes (stacking multiplicatively). - Total %-based Anti-Armor went from 60.5% (reducing Armor to 39.5%) to 50.6% (reducing Armor to 49.4%)
Moody P (NA)
: Defense isnt bad, tanks just get the worst deal
> Tanks used to have pretty generous amounts of health regen back when it was more readily available and was flat pen not % based. You need to replace "pen" with "regen" in this sentence. Otherwise, agree with you. The issue nowadays is that Riot pretty much gutted the availability of the primary defense stat (health) for tanks, both in the form of simply raw stats and sustain. Sustain in this context does not just refer to Hp5, either. Imo, Knight's Vow's sustain effect was a good thing for tanks, as it gave them a form of active in-fight sustain that is independent from them doing damage, but still tied to them doing their job efficiently. I'd love for Riot to introduce an item that only gave that sustain effect without the damage shift.
: You got a source on that actually happening?
Plot twist: The two AD champions were Kai'Sa and Corki.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 23
For the Banshee's/Edge of Night thing: One thing that feels really bad about Banshee's Veil is if it gets popped by incidential effects like Luden's Echo splashes. Could something be done with that?
Frısk (EUW)
: Changes to Eternals
- 225 RP or 3500 BE during Essence Emporium for each set of 3 Common Eternals. Common Eternals are the non-champion-specific stuff like Kills, Heals, etc. - 590 RP for each set of 3 Unique Eternals. Unique Eternals are the champion-specific stuff. These price points are rather reasonable. We need to remember that the thing we pay for with these Eternals is not the stat tracking per se, but the in-game call-outs and counters. ----- That being said, I still hope that Riot will make the out-of-game baseline stat tracking available independently of Eternals.
KazKaz (OCE)
: Why is Spear of Shojin still in the game?
Because Riot doesn't do meta-changing item additions/removals this late in the season. Spear is already stated to receive work during preseason.
: > [{quoted}](name=ProfDrDeath,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ze2Lmktt,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2019-08-19T20:07:25.687+0000) > > Resistances do work fine. In fact, there is less penetration nowadays than in the old seasons, when tanks reigned supreme. > > Let's compare Season 5 and Season 9, in the anti-armor department: > > Season 5: > > - {{item:3036}} / old {{item:3035}} : 40 AD, 40% Total ArPen - for 2300 gold > - {{item:3071}} : 6 stacks a 5% each, for a total of 30% Armor Reduction > - Masteries: 6% Total ArPen, multiplicatively stacking > - Total: 0.7 x 0.6 x 0.94 = 0.3948, or 39.48% Armor remaining. > > Season 9: > > - {{item:3036}} : 45 AD, 35% Total ArPen - for 2800 gold > - {{item:3071}} : 6 stack a 4% each, total 24% Armor Reduction > - Masteries Reforged: No passive ArPen left. Conqueror gives 6% conversion to true damage. > - Total: 0.76 x 0.65 = 0.494, or 49.4% Armor remaining. > > Comparing the two seasons, tanks nowadays have almost 25% more Armor after penetration than in Season 5. > > What about MR? > > Season 5: > > - {{item:3135}} : 80 AP, 35% total MPen > - {{item:3020}} : 15 MPen > - {{item:3136}} : Far less common, especially before Liandry's buff in 5.13 > - No on-hit %-penetration item. > - Total: 65% - 15 MR remaining. > > Season 9: > > - {{item:3135}} : 70 AP, 40% total MPen > - {{item:3020}} : 18 MPen > - {{item:3916}} : Virtually every mage builds this. > - {{item:3124}} : 15% total MPen on on-hit builds. > - Total: 60% - 18/33 MR remaining. > > Here, we are getting somewhere. Anti-MR tools are quite a bit stronger these days. > > ---- > > However, this still does not paint the whole picture. Resistances have always been multiplicative stats, and thus dependent on the primary stat they amplify - Health. > > And over the last few seasons, Riot absolutely **gutted** tanks' access to health and even pseudo-health effects: > > - Tank items were shifted from health towards resistances, as tank items are supposed to be more stat-bound to resistances (in contrast to Juggernaut and Fighter items, which are more focused towards Health). A good idea in isolation, fatal in combination with everything else. > - {{item:1401}} / {{item:1413}} went from 25% bonus health to 15% bonus health. > - The loss of Health-per-level runes (216 HP@18). > - Overgrowth was changed from a %-based increase (0.2% per 8 minions) to a flat increase (3 per 8 minions + 3.5% after a threshould value). > - {{item:3109}} : Tanks used this item to share part of their damage dealer's in-fight sustain, which was imo a good thing (rewarding teamwork and coordinated fights). The item was nerfed (mainly for its other effect of making the bonded partner less killable). > - Aftershock replaced Courage of the Colossus. This is another big one, imo. With tank itemization already focused towards more resistances than health, Courage's shield was a godsend for tanks' ability to, you know, tank stuff. Replacing the shield with additional resistances is way less optimal for tanks, since they already have a lot of those. > Conversely, Juggernauts and Fighters, with their Health-focused itemization, and other classes with access to lots of pseudo-health abused the hell out of Aftershock. > > Moreover, the game changed around tanks and their items, as well. Game pace accelerated (making first item spikes more important), non-tank first items became easier to itemize into, more well-rounded or play simply a lot stronger, and Keystone runes favour active instead of reactive play. Again, most of these things are good ideas in isolation, but have fatal effects if only part of the game systems are really changed around their fallout. You’re forgetting one massive element. At that time %pen was %bonus pen. Not total. And that makes a pretty big difference, and is a massive reason everything may as well be doing true damage at all times now.
Nope, that's why I am talking about Season 5. Last Whisper only became % bonus Armor-Penetration in Preseason 6, and was changed back to Total ArPen back in Patch 8.11.
: > [{quoted}](name=ProfDrDeath,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ze2Lmktt,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-08-19T18:45:25.701+0000) > > Yes, tanks lack a solid core item that makes them better at, you know, being tanks. Not Sunfire Cape (offensive) or Abyssal Mask (again, offensive item), but rather an item that gives like 10% CdR, some baseline resistances (30-35 of both MR and Armor) and some HP and/or pseudo-HP (like, maybe a shield that scales with bonus **resistances**, the key stat of tanks?). The resistances that don’t work? Or the ones that are reduced by 40% in every game? Or the ones that are highly inefficient to build?
Resistances do work fine. In fact, there is less penetration nowadays than in the old seasons, when tanks reigned supreme. Let's compare Season 5 and Season 9, in the anti-armor department: Season 5: - {{item:3036}} / old {{item:3035}} : 40 AD, 40% Total ArPen - for 2300 gold - {{item:3071}} : 6 stacks a 5% each, for a total of 30% Armor Reduction - Masteries: 6% Total ArPen, multiplicatively stacking - Total: 0.7 x 0.6 x 0.94 = 0.3948, or 39.48% Armor remaining. Season 9: - {{item:3036}} : 45 AD, 35% Total ArPen - for 2800 gold - {{item:3071}} : 6 stack a 4% each, total 24% Armor Reduction - Masteries Reforged: No passive ArPen left. Conqueror gives 6% conversion to true damage. - Total: 0.76 x 0.65 = 0.494, or 49.4% Armor remaining. Comparing the two seasons, tanks nowadays have almost 25% more Armor after penetration than in Season 5. What about MR? Season 5: - {{item:3135}} : 80 AP, 35% total MPen - {{item:3020}} : 15 MPen - {{item:3136}} : Far less common, especially before Liandry's buff in 5.13 - No on-hit %-penetration item. - Total: 65% - 15 MR remaining. Season 9: - {{item:3135}} : 70 AP, 40% total MPen - {{item:3020}} : 18 MPen - {{item:3916}} : Virtually every mage builds this. - {{item:3124}} : 15% total MPen on on-hit builds. - Total: 60% - 18/33 MR remaining. Here, we are getting somewhere. Anti-MR tools are quite a bit stronger these days. ---- However, this still does not paint the whole picture. Resistances have always been multiplicative stats, and thus dependent on the primary stat they amplify - Health. And over the last few seasons, Riot absolutely **gutted** tanks' access to health and even pseudo-health effects: - Tank items were shifted from health towards resistances, as tank items are supposed to be more stat-bound to resistances (in contrast to Juggernaut and Fighter items, which are more focused towards Health). A good idea in isolation, fatal in combination with everything else. - {{item:1401}} / {{item:1413}} went from 25% bonus health to 15% bonus health. - The loss of Health-per-level runes (216 HP@18). - Overgrowth was changed from a %-based increase (0.2% per 8 minions) to a flat increase (3 per 8 minions + 3.5% after a threshould value). - {{item:3109}} : Tanks used this item to share part of their damage dealer's in-fight sustain, which was imo a good thing (rewarding teamwork and coordinated fights). The item was nerfed (mainly for its other effect of making the bonded partner less killable). - Aftershock replaced Courage of the Colossus. This is another big one, imo. With tank itemization already focused towards more resistances than health, Courage's shield was a godsend for tanks' ability to, you know, tank stuff. Replacing the shield with additional resistances is way less optimal for tanks, since they already have a lot of those. Conversely, Juggernauts and Fighters, with their Health-focused itemization, and other classes with access to lots of pseudo-health abused the hell out of Aftershock. Moreover, the game changed around tanks and their items, as well. Game pace accelerated (making first item spikes more important), non-tank first items became easier to itemize into, more well-rounded or play simply a lot stronger, and Keystone runes favour active instead of reactive play. Again, most of these things are good ideas in isolation, but have fatal effects if only part of the game systems are really changed around their fallout.
: Every class has a blatantly op item except for tanks.
Yes, tanks lack a solid core item that makes them better at, you know, being tanks. Not Sunfire Cape (offensive) or Abyssal Mask (again, offensive item), but rather an item that gives like 10% CdR, some baseline resistances (30-35 of both MR and Armor) and some HP and/or pseudo-HP (like, maybe a shield that scales with bonus **resistances**, the key stat of tanks?).
: His old villian passive made each spin, his Q, and his autos do % hp true damage too. So, that helped kill tanks a _tiiiiiiiiiiiiiny_ bit.
Yeah, I know. However: > get to see that massive 2k+ true damage execute while yelling DEMACIA This still stays an achievable high point. Well, at least for 1.5k+ damage, that is.
: Getting 50 armor/mr from his W was such a huge sink for his power budget, so as hilarious as it is getting that much for free, I am glad its going back to 30 so he can actually have some damage again The one big thing Ill miss, is ironically the Villian mechanic, but only for those situations when its a tank as the villian and get to see that massive 2k+ true damage execute while yelling DEMACIA
Lemme tell you, his ult stays a true damage execute. So you always get your high point, just without having the tank as the villain.
: I don't understand how it took them 6 months to make a modified mission system. What the fuck have they been doing for 6 months if they literally just created new mission triggers, slapped a price tag on it, and called it a day? I mean, I could sort of understand if they had dropped a special chroma and emote and icon for every existing champion, that could take 6 months, but not making new missions. I don't buy it for a second.
Because it is not a modified mission system. Missions only track stats that the game already reports to the client anyways: CS, wards placed, towers destroyed, takedowns, vision score - all stuff that the client displays in the Post-Game Screen anyways. Eternals will track specific actions you do in-game in a champion-specific manner. This is actually new tech and new coding that is required there, and it needs to specifically set up and maintained for every current and future champion. Anyone who actually works in information technology nows how much work that is. Even more so when grafting the system onto an existing codebase instead of having it developed alongside said codebase. The alternative to purchasable Eternals would be an achievement system that tracks the boring old stats - you know, like that stats page in your profile.
5050BS (NA)
: Garen changes coming to the PBE.... Why play Urgot
Because he is ranged and has a dash? And the Garen changes are highly experimental?
: irelia is in a good spot lol
https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Irelia/Top/ https://u.gg/lol/champions/irelia/build That's debatable.
: The mark thing isn't that hard to balance, it just needs to not give her Q full resets. Also Tri needs to lose damage on Sheen proc (take it back to 175%)
Or 150%. Reverting the change from patch 3.10a, where it was increased from 150% to 200%.
: How about just turn her back into more of a bruiser (less damage more survivability) than this assassin fighter shit Riot tried making her into, which created balance problems out of the gate.
That's one of the intents of above change. No marks with E = 5-85 + 0.6 AD less burst in her combo.
Rioter Comments
Ahri Baka (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Ragnaveil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3PPRAA2L,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-13T13:29:59.337+0000) > > so you dont want the assassin class to be assassins then. I meant the assassin mechanics from Irelia when she dashes to you she ends up being behind you dodging skillshots easily That's kind of like old Akali Ult Why Irelia a non assassin champion ( that is supposed to be a bruiser ) got dashes and resets and those dashes make them behind her target ?
For me, the cardinal sin of the Irelia rework was giving her multiple ways to reset Bladesurge. That sort of mobility, combined with her ability to build fairly tanky, is what makes her such a balance nightmare. Yes, we Irelia mains always loved dashing all over the place with her Q - but not to the exclusion of everything else.
GilxeN (EUW)
: Hold your horses, there are types of CC which u cannot reduce, such as Knock ups, Knock backs and stuff. There is literally no counter play against knock ups, besides burning ur 4 min cd (Flash). CC is so overhelming it literally pisses me off, when they gonna add "Diminishing return", and get rid of useless tenacity.
Airborne CC usually is shorter than comparable stuns already, on account of not being reduced by Tenacity. In fact, a lot of knock-ups consist of the airborne effect with a short fixed duration and an underlying, longer stun (which is reduced by Tenacity).
: Champs you dont like. Champs you dont want your team to play.
Also, a lot of people (in this thread and in other places) mistake "Don't like to play against" with "is objectively overpowered at my level". For instance, Yasuo and Zed are commonly banned because people just do not like to play against them, not because they are reliably powerful. If people were banning champions that are overpowered at their level, you'd see a lot more bans on things like Jinx, Ahri, Janna, Fizz in Plat+, for instance.
: What One Change/Addition/Removal You Want From the Preseason?
Probably crazy idea: All champions are now limited to a maximum of 2 Crit items. Zeal Upgrades rebalanced to be in the 3000-3200 gold range. ---- The intent here is to limit the overall damage output of ADCs somewhat and incentivize/force them into more dedicated builds if they want to increase their damage output against tanks ({{item:3036}} {{item:3153}} ), squishies ({{item:3142}} {{item:3072}} ) or into utility and defense ({{item:3095}} {{item:3139}} ). Limiting Crit items to 2 also allows the individual items, especially the Zeal Upgrades, to be more powerful, as it prevents abusive triple combinations. This would mostly affect ADCs, but not the two champions that build crit at higher levels ({{champion:23}} {{champion:157}} ).
: What One Change/Addition/Removal You Want From the Preseason?
> Option 2: Teleport. Either the removal or changing of Teleport from a summoner to a purchasable item. Teleport offers way too much currently and that is why we see consistently in pro games 3 players per team taking it. It is pretty much given that Riot is going to do something with Teleport come Preseason. I cannot imagine them being in the slightest content with the current situation.
: Ezreal doesn't need buffs. He has plenty of scaling already. IBG is fine. It just needs ranged nerfs. Same with Trinity Force. Maybe nerf the CDR on TF.
Regarding CdR on Triforce: I think that they might remove Stinger in the item shop cleanup in preseason. If so, Triforce would probably build out of Recurve Bow...and exchange 10% CdR for some on-hit damage.
: Can we look at reworking Black Cleaver into a solo damage-booster instead of an Armor-Shredder?
Hmm. Cleaver itself is not a problem, imo. Rather, it mostly becomes problematic if it is combined with Lethality on the same champion. So, why not add the following passive to {{item:3071}} : Passive - Sets the user's Lethality value to a perpetual 0. This prevents abuse by Lethality-building assassins while keeping it as an option for Juggernauts that want to amplify their team's damage output.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 9
Will something be done about Teleport in Season 10?
Meddler (NA)
: The change we're most confident in is moving some rewards (gold/xp) from Krugs to other camps, blue buff side of things especially, so that early pathing isn't so constrained. Testing some other stuff as well but don't have enough confidence in it yet to be worth talking about.
Gut feeling is that this would make Krugs an afterthought camp again, after they bonus rewards were specifically put there to entice players to go for that camp. Are there any thoughts on that?
Rioter Comments
Crocele (NA)
: -3 ad
Would probably cost her between 1% and 2% winrate.
Antenora (EUW)
: Tanks as a class are meant to be most effective against Mages and Assassin's in the sense they can peel for their backline and make the Assassin's / Mages have to hit them. On the flip side, Tanks are meant to be vulnerable to consistent DPS Marksmen or Fighters.   My opinion on this is as follows **Mages and Assassin's should never be able to shred a tank.**
True, except in regard to DPS mages. Burst mages should not shred tanks. A way to dampen tank shredding by AD assassins could be to have completed Black Cleaver have the following: Unique Passive: Sets your champion's Lethality value to 0.
: Get ready everyone (Patch 9.15)
These buffs don't look too major to me. Vayne's buff is very conditional: Some extra damage in a specific use case of a long cooldown skill (20-12 seconds, always maxed last, and Vayne mostly doesn't buy CdR). Lucian's buff is a bit bigger, but only affects level 11+. On an ADC, that's usually somewhat later in the game. Given that his winrate is sub-50% (as a lanebully to boot), there's room for a buff - as long as he doesn't take over mid/top in competitive again.
: the state of riven
Source for those numbers? Your butt? Riven Top: [U.gg: 51.7% winrate, 10.7% pickrate.](https://u.gg/lol/champions/riven/build) [Lolalytics: 51.77% winrate, 10.4% pickrate](https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Riven/Top/)
Rioter Comments
Kirika (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=ProfDrDeath,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MAgU5oOj,comment-id=0032,timestamp=2019-07-09T06:02:09.534+0000) > > Because you can stack Crit Items too much. You get comparable damage from going 3-4 Crit items, and on top you get a lot of nifty bonuses like Energize proc, PD shield, ER mana sustain, Hurricane AoE... > > I wonder what would happen if Riot hard-capped Crit Items to a maximum of 2 per champion. I tell you waht would happen. {{champion:157}} {{champion:23}} would be laughing so hard into your face
Given that they where always balanced around having two crit items, I don't see the problem with those two.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: No ADC is building armor penetration, why is this not talked about?
Because you can stack Crit Items too much. You get comparable damage from going 3-4 Crit items, and on top you get a lot of nifty bonuses like Energize proc, PD shield, ER mana sustain, Hurricane AoE... I wonder what would happen if Riot hard-capped Crit Items to a maximum of 2 per champion.
: Why are tanks the only role without a high impact item?
Tanks don't really have a core item like the other classes, that's true. It is probably linked to different reasons, a few of which are: - Tank builds need to vary the most of all classes from game to game, given that the ability to survive the enemy damage output needs to respond to the exact ways said enemy outputs the damage - It is difficult to design a tank item that won't get abused by other classes - Offense, in the end, needs to outscale defense That being said, tank itemization felt worse and worse over the years, mostly due to how their competing classes (competing as in, slots in a team comp) got better and more convenient items. Build paths became easier, completed items became more powerful (compare release Death's Dance with current Death's Dance, for instance). So, it might be a good time to start discussing about giving tanks a core item that fulfills their power fantasy without being abusive.
: First off jayce needs to be turned into a sustained damage fighter, his disengage is fine if they reduce his burst and move it into a more sustained dps and bruiser style. Because it would give more time for a darius or someone to actually get in and fight, but would still allow him to have that duelist capacity. He needs a new mechanic and lower burst Teemo... needs lower power in his E and W at lower levels, a loss to his Q power and a slightly higher range, it would put him as a bot laner I wont begin to speculate on kennen because I'm not qualified, though it seems that he is coming up on the list of "Old ass champs that need some tweaks" Gnar... well I'll admit that gnar is an issue, Again I've not played him enough Urgot: I think he's alright, i've seen lots of urgots in all elos win and lose against melee matchups quinn: Idunno, make her a jungler at this point. Vayne: Swap her %hp damage to physical to at least allow some armor building Itemization: Protobelt for tanky champs, more anti-poke/anti-burst juggernaut/diver items. has to be unappealing for those who would abuse them.
{{champion:133}} : An idea for her would be: Make her E, the gap-opener, have longer CD to start with (like 22-18, up from 12-8). Reduce E's base CD by 4 seconds per rank in her ultimate. That way, at level 11, her E would have a CD of 14-10 seconds, and at 16, 10-6 seconds. That would make her more punishable in lane, as OP wants, while not destroying her important mobility tool in the later stages of the game. Moreover, it would put more of her in-combat power budget into her ultimate.
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ProfDrDeath

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