: Except for part 3.
Almost like you're having 4 weeks to complete the missions.
: If you're not just overexaggerating I want to know what that Leona did, because Zyra is a pain train for a melee engage champion like Leona.
https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/current/platinum/plus/champion/Leona/counters/ In the match-up against Zyra, Leona wins due to the fact that Zyra is so squishy - if you hit her, she just dies.
: ***
Except that build doesn't cut it against tanks.
: you forgot to add ryze rework to the 'altogether later'
Jikker (NA)
: The reason was to stop people from downvoting threads without even reading them causing many to get lost in the sauce simply because they didn't like the title or poster. By having to go into a thread (like on the old forums) more effort is required which means many mindless downvotes are not given as often. We can definitely take this feedback into consideration.
It's a good thought. Unfortunately, it needs to be combined with a bit more control from the side of the moderators regarding certain spammy posters. For instance, take Yenn's complaint posts (sometimes, you have 5-6 on a single page if sorting by new) over at Gameplay or the occasional mindless thread spammer.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: December 13
Can you say whether the following lists are accurate? Patch 7.24b: - Aatrox buffs - Cassiopeia buffs - Corki nerfs - Graves buffs - Jayce nerfs - Katarina nerfs - Kayle changes - Kayn buffs - Kled buffs - Leona nerfs - Miss Fortune nerfs - Renekton ~~bar grand reopening~~ buffs - Teemo nerfs - Yasuo buffs (could you please remove his tower dive safety net in exchange?) - Lethality nerfs (good) - Giant Slayer changes - Tiamat and Titanic buffs - Manaflow Band, Scorch, Sorcery Set boni nerfs - Resolve combination changes Patch 8.1: - Brand passive changes - Heimer changes - Xerath nerfs - Forbidden Idol lineage changes - Predator changes Altogether later: - Olaf's changes - Grasp's tested changes returning as a new keystone - moar runes Or is anything in the wrong category?
: @Riot About The Grasp Change and Revert
Too high a scale for 7.24b and needs more testing and iteration. Also, possibility that the mechanic is better suited for a new Resolve Keystone, leaving the existing version of Grasp intact.
: The statement of "only a few people play him" is actually quite incorrect. He's one of the more popular champions, who also happens to dedicate the most time to mastering him. We did a really cool (in my opinion) blog on appeal vs stickiness (breadth vs depth) of champions which might be of interest to you! You can check it out [here](https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2017/11/champ-popularity-mixing-math-art/)! The charts halfway down would likely be of interest in particular! He's a champion that stands the test of time in regards to popularity even when he's weak. Meaning that the number of people playing Yasuo before/after preseason is probably actually roughly equal, only the version they're playing after is far weaker. This translates to more games with a Yasuo in them likely translating to a stomp for the team with a Yasuo on them, because even when they've mastered the champion over hundreds of games, they're "reward" is still losing over half their games, which bucks the trend of what you would expect from a mastery curve.
Hello Maple Nectar, if Yasuo turns out to be too strong after these changes (or at some other point in the future), could you think about removing his ult placing him out of tower range as a nerf? That mechanic feels utter bullcrap to play against, allowing him to towerdive you with impunity.
: jayce has been fundamentally out of line since he was buffed to no longer need tear
Jayce essentially has the issue that he is an artillery-type caster in ranged form, while also obviously having the advantage of range into melee matchups, and on top has the ability to both all-in well and deny all-ins in melee form. I think that he'd be a lot more healthy to play against if he simply lost the knockback on melee E, with the freed power being redistributed into other parts of his kit.
: -3 ad on Vayne on patch 5.20 was a much memed about change IRT how useless it was. That change resulted in 2.5% drop in winrate (if that's the metric we'd choose here), and curbed a fair amount of the outcry against her at the time. Taking 5-15 damage away from a full build is actually a lot more impactful than you might think, especially on a class of champions that relies on their auto attacks (primarily) for damage. This tactic coupled with the gold increase would be effective - but it would also likely leave only a few marksman as considered viable (Ezreal, MF, Varus, Kog etc).
That's certain true, and is a case I quite remember laughing about the Board's and reddit's analysts prediction after the fact. However, a valid point OP makes is the fact that the Zeal items are quite (a bit too, imo) cheap since the changes with the Tank Update in midseason. In fact, IE + 2 Zeal items is the cheapest 3-item core combo of all damage dealing classes. This could heavily contribute to the feeling of snowballiness and the game slipping out of control if bot lane screws up.
: I feel like half the "issues" with the runes would be solved if you could choose the stats you got
: Kog'Maw drops two Dark Harvest orbs upon death
Have you posted this in Bug Reports, too? If not, please do.
Dormidon (EUW)
: Darius finally returned to ~50% win rate
Grasp changes will not be in 7.24b. Rather, they'll be in 8.1 at the earliest.
Azadethe (NA)
: I think people get carried away going by average win rates on any champ at any time. They include averages of players with low game counts and high game counts, where in reality the only count that should be considered is that of consistent players with 50-200 games on a champ, because they generally know what they are doing. From what I've seen so far: Morgana feels much more vulnerable as Support and Mid. You can't reliably get enough sustain from lane champs to compensate the loss of Spell Vamp, especially in the early game. Clench positions where Morg would have got out, now she dies. However, 16% of the Morgana population has migrated to Jungle, where she has been working fine for most of Season 7 and now. Her Clears used to struggle, but now by level 6 she's pretty much sustaining like any other jungler. And, unlike any other jungler, she has a nice snare she can cast without really fully getting in a lane, which makes her ganks really strong. I played Morgana jungle in Season 7 and literally had a 100% win rate with it until about 4 days before the season ended, because I've been playing Morgana since Season 4 and I just don't die. But because of this, i can't really give an opinion on balance. Morgana has her counters, especially if they can make her miss Q's. She does feel pretty squishy compared to old Morgana given current runes, but overall I'm still somewhat happy with her. I die more often because I can't overstack AP and tankiness at the same time anymore, but I generally still get good kdas. Personally, I don't mind her being nerfed as support, because I have so many other support champs with most better play like Nami. I don't know how I feel about Mid yet. She seems very gankable atm mid, given the struggle to sustain. P.S. Champion.GG has her at 52.54%.
https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/current/platinum/plus/champion/Morgana/Middle/ 58% in mid.
: > [{quoted}](name=iLBGAMing,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uu7ia9KV,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-12-07T11:28:35.936+0000) > So Morgana's winrate went from 52% to 60% > lul Not sure where you are seeing that. I'm getting 54%.
Not 60% here, but 58% - which is still an indicator of a massive overperformance: https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/current/platinum/plus/champion/Morgana/Middle/
: one of the largest problems with adc is that they can afford to skip lifesteal items these days.
Oh, don't forget that 7.24 improves Fleet Footwork for those IE+2 Zeal Upgrade champions. This will go to excerbate the problem, instead of being a direction aimed at actually fixing it.
: you know fleet footwork got buffed? Attack Damage Heal Ratio: 30% bonus Attack Damage Critical Levels: If the Attack that Activates Fleet Footwork is a critical hit, Fleet Footwork's healing is increased by 40% of your critical Damage Modifier So basically if you buy {{item:3031}} and you have 250% crit modifier, thats 100 bonus heal every critical energized attack.
Buffed Fleet Footwork only contributes to the problem Critmaster describes, because it is non-gold-dependent sustain. Which actually improves the cheap IE+2-Zeal Upgrades builds.
Anonagon (NA)
: Not understanding 7.24 Morg changes
https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Morgana/Middle/ 58% winrate as a mid laner. Holy.
: I have miopia and I cannot read champion levels after "improvement"
Have your eyes checked out at a doctor and get glasses. Playing computer games with uncorrected myopia is rather bad for your eyes.
Meddler (NA)
: Not in 7.24b at least. They need more testing and they're not the sort of thing we can do in a micropatch, which 7.24b still is behind the scenes. 8.1's possible, though far from guaranteed, Grasp changes have only just gone into testing.
Meddler, just want to say this: As a long time player, I really, really like that you guys nowadays find the time and tools to micropatch the game for obvious problem cases prior to the long christmas break. Since preseason is so close to that break, there's always the chance that some balancing utterly breaks something else / reveals another important outlier, and this way we won't have to deal with said outlier for the whole of the break. :) Bad memories of christmas breaks past, like the infamous League of Thunderlord's.
: Fervor of Battle comes back with Grasp of the Undying [PBE]
> To quickly set expectations - this change is not going to be going live with the 7.24b patch the majority of these changes are planned for. There's already been a pretty big iteration from the one you're seeing on PBE based on a few playtests. Hoping to get something out in 8.1 - but that timeline may change too. [Riot Maple.](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/7hssq1/125_pbe_update/dqtt3tf/?st=jaupklli&sh=7565091e)
: Please don't let this change to Grasp of the Undying through
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/7hssq1/125_pbe_update/dqtt3tf/?st=jaupklli&sh=7565091e > To quickly set expectations - this change is not going to be going live with the 7.24b patch the majority of these changes are planned for. There's already been a pretty big iteration from the one you're seeing on PBE based on a few playtests. Hoping to get something out in 8.1 - but that timeline may change too.
Rioter Comments
: Hello top lane tanks. If this was meant to boost for Juggernauts it's in the wrong direction.
Is it, though? Remember, Juggernauts are the kind of champions that are balanced around stacking copious amounts of health and AD. With the new Grasp, they will get even more AD stacking in. Also, most, if not all, Juggernauts scale with Health in some way: - Darius and his missing health heal on Q - Illaoi's heals - Udyr's W - Nasus has his resistances on his ult, emphasizing HP - Garen's passive
: god i fucking miss fervor. Press the Attack just feels like shit in lane, since by the time i can get 3 autos, I'm having to tank more minion than you find in Despicable Me, all while eating the enemy's damage, and also having next to no armor, mr, or bonus hp
Honestly, if PtA feels bad to use, try something else. Especially on melee champions, and given the fact that it gets nerfed come 7.24. For instance, you can rune into Arcane Comet for the high AD from Sorcery ({{champion:2}} {{champion:164}} ), with Manaflow Band (less mana worries), Celerity (MS is always good, and it still will be two old Quints worth of MS after the nerfs) and Scorch (more poke) as further benefits.
Ralanr (NA)
: Feels like auto heavy Melee fighters (and Riven) are having the worst of it.
And that goes to show how much of their power had been occupied by Fervor of Battle before preseason.
: atmas impaler: {{item:3122}} + {{item:3052}} 400 health 40 AD 20% critical strike chance unique passive: Critical Strikes cause your target to bleed for an additional 4% of your total Health as magic damage over 3 seconds: unique active: fires a spear in the target direction and applies the bleed to the first enemy champion struck. (cooldown 60 seconds, reduced to 10 seconds when it hits an enemy champion). why is this item good for bruisers? a) it scales with health b) it allows them to get the full benefit out of the passive even with relatively low crit chance. you only need to crit about once every 3 seconds to repeatedly reapply the dot. means high crit chances dont make the passive better at a certain point (looking at tryn and yasuo).
: Why is it so difficult for Riot to give everyboy 4 MR?
Because that still would not fix the problem with tanks' damage - against those tanks, you effectively lost 12 MR, not 4 (since most tanks did not run MPen reds).
: Who do you think is the healthiest assassin in the game?
Zed is not necessarily the healthiest assassin, but I'd argue that he has the healthiest pattern for his actual assassination (if not fed to hell and back, that is). Between the delay on R's proc and his need to land additional abilities, there is a lot both he and his victim can do to make the assassination succeed/fail. The unhealthy thing about him is how strong his laning phase is between being energy-based, having access to waveclear and an easymode last-hit tool.
: Details on our extra patch coming in December!
Do the changes to Sunfire Cape belong to this set of changes aimed at top lane? Because you're essentially reverting it to its pre-7.9 state - in a world in which the opposing top laner has less MR than previously. > Sunfire Cape has been the top lane first-buy for quite some time, and it's not hard to see why. With waveclear, durability, and champion combat power, it has everything a growing top laner needs. We're sharpening its identity as the "pushing" item by pushing (sorry) more strength into damage against non-champions - at the expense of dueling potency. > > BURN DAMAGE 26-43 (at levels 1-18) >> 12-29 (at levels 1-18) > > [...] Directly from the 7.9 patch notes.
: This thread actually gave me a decent chuckle. I can totally imagine there being a commercial like those random drug ones where there's a family sitting in a field or running down a beach into the sunset as a calm voice lists all the side effects to their new drug called top-be-strong. Real talk though. We had a meeting on Monday to talk about what we can do in the short term for the state of top lane, while the team that worked on runes finds a more long term solution to the fighter problem/preseason wraps up. We typically find during pre-season that teams are more than likely to opt into sub-optimal full damage comps as opposed to having a tank somewhere, which makes folks like Ornn/Mao look all the more powerful when they're actually picked (they also are just too strong which is why we're nerfing them). Usually this behavior switches as we move into the start of the new year, though this year may be different with the introduction of runes. We're seeing some things like Vayne top crop up, and honestly I think that's pretty cool seeing her flex there more frequently (though still far less than other top laners), but we need to make sure you still have some recourse against her as opposed to just having to concede your lane. Regarding top lane, we're going to be doing another end of year patch on December 14th after 7.24 goes live on December 6th. A lot of focus is being put on top lane, both champions that are weak, champions that are suppressing others more than we'd like, as well as some itemization tuning. It's stuff that we're going to be willing to undo in the future should we find that the longer term systems solve flips the table and turns thing into a 100% fighter dominated meta, but that'll be a later discussion and may not even be necessary. TL;DR - we hear the plight, we're looking to do some temporary measures to help resolve some of the pain, and we're looking into the long term fixes for the role/classes as well.
Do the changes to Sunfire Cape belong to this set of changes? Because you're essentially reverting it to its pre-7.9 state - in a world in which the opposing top laner has less MR than previously. > Sunfire Cape has been the top lane first-buy for quite some time, and it's not hard to see why. With waveclear, durability, and champion combat power, it has everything a growing top laner needs. We're sharpening its identity as the "pushing" item by pushing (sorry) more strength into damage against non-champions - at the expense of dueling potency. > > BURN DAMAGE 26-43 (at levels 1-18) >> 12-29 (at levels 1-18) > > [...] Directly from the 7.9 patch notes. EDIT: Migrating this to the "Details on our extra patch coming in December" in the Dev Corner.
: I usually only take around 15s to make a page from scratch You should try it
For the new runes? I already do :) No, I meant with old masteries.
: Get into the habit of making a new page every champion select Been doing it for years and I could never go back to having preset pages even if i tried
For mastery pages, I used to have exactly six - one for each of the possible combinations of mastery trees. With that, I would always only need to use left clicks to assign my masteries on the fly. 15 seconds or less total time needed.
: Sunfire is pretty useless now. I think with the new runes and new meta, it's worth looking into a buff. I haven't noticed it being strong since Preseason started.
Is it really? https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/current/platinum/plus/champion/Maokai/Top/ https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/current/platinum/plus/champion/Sion/Top/ https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/current/platinum/plus/champion/Malphite/Top/ https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/current/platinum/plus/champion/Shen/Top/ https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/current/platinum/plus/champion/Ornn/Top/ https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/current/platinum/plus/champion/TahmKench/Top/ https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/current/platinum/plus/champion/Poppy/Top/ https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/current/platinum/plus/champion/Nautilus/Top/ I linked a few tanks of top lane, and Sunfire is a good enough item on all of them. Most of those commonly get it as first or second item, and it is generally not bad on them, either - evident in the fact that the winrate with Sunfire as first item does not fall below their average winrate. Now, I wouldn't argue that Sunfire Cape sometimes feels crap to build. But, objectively, it is not that bad - or certainly not bad enough to warrant that strong a buff.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Why Fervor really that bad that it cant return?
Yes. Or, rather, under the paradigm of new runes (meaningful choices that influence playstyle and require at least semi-concious thought), Fervor does not fit anymore, being a stat stick boost that is always on, not influenced at all by your decisions. And before countering that Press the Attack or Lethal Tempo are equally brainless - no, they are not. Both of these keystones have at least a modicum of thought involved: - PtA requires three auto-attack hits - and, with the PBE nerfs, you only get the damage on the third hit. Only the fourth auto would be influenced by the damage boost. Furthermore, unlike Fervor, you are committed to a target by its effect - if procced, you only get the damage boost against a single target, and switching to a different target prevents you from stacking up again till the effect falls off on the previous target. Now, you can definitely argue that it might be brainless in a 1-vs-1 lane, and I'd give you that. - Lethal Tempo is restricted by its delayed activation (1.5 seconds till activation, which can mean a radically different situation) and the fact that it has a cooldown (6 seconds on PBE). The only keystone that is similarily no-thought-required as old Fervor is Summon Aerie, and I fully expect even more nerfs there. Oh, and Kleptomancy on certain champions (cough Ezreal cough). EDIT: And two reasons Fighters suck vacuum right now: First, for some of them, their theoretically most synergistic Keystone is gated by being associated with stats that don't particularily benefit them early game (PtA comes to mind, for all the attack reset types save Irelia and Jax). Second, the new rune system's focus on damage means that, in a 1-vs-1 laning situation, champions that can build/feature early durability are better than those that need to build damage (because both offensive power and defensive power are factors in total strength, and factors = multiplication. 1.5 defense value x 1.5 offense value > 1 defense value x 2 offense value).
Durzaka (NA)
: Thats not true at all. He always winds up broken. Thats true. But until people starting playing Jungle Ezreal, his win rate and play rate was in the trash can for half of a season.
His bot lane winrate soared compared to last season for a few reasons: - Runes Reforged massively toned down on the sustain of ADCs without dedicated Lifesteal purchases. Just compare Warlord's Bloodlust and Fleet Footwork. Also, ADCs (and top laners) lost the Hp5 mastery. - Runes Reforged also took care of his mana hungriness in lane, due to Kleptomancy's mana potions. Also, Future's Market enables a lot easier Tear rush/first item spike. - If you don't want a Precision Keystone, you can get a ton of AD from Runes Reforged, even more so with Inspiration primary. Meanwhile, Ez's opponent is stuck with (at that point in the game) comparatively useless attack speed.
: 4th Keystone suggestions for all Rune Paths except Domination
Which part of "Riot removed old Fervor on purpose" is hard to understand? Yes, I get that certain bruisers lack a keystone, but that's no excuse to bring back that stat stick keystone - remember, these keystones are there to influence how you play the game, not to just exist for a boost. Thunderlord's was changed to Electrocute for the same reason, as was Bloodlust to Footwork. Darius could be balanced by changing his abilities around a bit, from bonus AD to total AD. Then, a little buff to Black Cleaver's anti-tank properties...
: 3176 Orange Essence. No Keys. No Chests. What to do...
Play the game and get some loot from the Project event. There are skin shards in there.
Kaìju (NA)
: Wouldn't that mean the only possible option is an ADC? What types of champions do damage not tied to XP?
With the way champions are currently balanced/designed? Pretty much yes. However, I think Veigar could work as a bot lane mage - he is not too terribly XP-dependent beyond level 9 (Q CD and high AP ratios), he stacks AP from killing minions and hitting champions (more targets in bot), his direct enemies are usually rather squishy and he could benefit from a support to cover his weakish early laning. Another option could be Karthus, but he'd need just a little bit of a shift from base damages to AP ratios.
: Yasuo, Ryze, and Azir are a few good candidates but sadly they have a tough time laning against the current bot meta. Late game though they fill the damage role of adcs.
Yasuo and Azir are two of the most XP-dependent champions in the whole game. Yasuo due to the fact that he is melee and that his durability further depends on the level scaling of his passive, and Azir due to the damage scaling of soldier's auto-attacks, W's AS boost and all his abilities having scaling cooldowns. Ryze has a lot of roaming power with his ult, making him better in a position with more map access. A non-ADC bot laner would not necessarily need to fill the exact role of an ADC. Rather, he needs to not be hampered by sharing XP in a duo lane - and melees and most mages are too dependent on XP for that.
Rioter Comments
: Confirm that we're working on it, but not confirming us to an exact timeline. Likely going to be around 8.03 give or take a few patches :P
Anything you can/want to already talk about? Has a decision been made on the mana topic?
Tortunga (EUW)
: Why is it getting nerfed? 4% momvent speed isn't much, and even with stacking movement speed (like 300 extra) you get like 24 AP/14.4 AD out of it. If it makes mobile champions to mobile just add a part that the bonus movement speed will disable for X seconds after using a dash (excluding flash).
4% MS is about three quints worth of MS (used to be 1.5% per quint, 4.5% total). Add that it gives about 4-5 AD/AP out of it, and you have it be worth 4 old quints. And always-on movement speed has always been a deceptively powerful stat - nerfs to their base MS led to champions falling completely out of viability before.
Imfao (EUW)
: Dont nerf celerity
[Phreak explains it rather well why they are nerfing Celerity.](https://youtu.be/KuHy3GPgt4I?t=15m10s)
: King Cobra and I will be trying to figure out how to make a delicious turkey. Wish us luck : 0!
Good cooking channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRIZtPl9nb9RiXc9btSTQNw Somewhere, there's a turkey recipe in there - but definitely also one for mini-turkeys (game hens). Anyways, best of luck!
penguin (NA)
: Sleep duration** IS** reduced by Merc Treads. It's probably not in Merc Treads' description because merc treads have been around far longer than Sleep has been in LoL. So TL;DR we should probably add it to the Tooltip. Thanks for the callout.
Funny thing: Tenacity used to read as reducing sleep, as well - way back in S2. There never was any sleep effect at that time, though...
Rexxiee (NA)
: how to make ad fighters playable again
Even if Riot decided to bring Fervor back (they won't), it would not be put into the tree with the tagline "burst damage and target access". Fervor is not burst damage.
: quinn top is absolutely the most cancer thing i have ever played against.
Armor. {{item:1054}} . {{item:3076}} . And more Armor. Seriously, Quinn top is a pick that intends to dominate the lane to be useful. Deny her that domination, and her team will have a lot more difficult of a time winning (assuming standard solo queue behaviour here, where no jungler dreams of ever touching a tanky frontliner, even if his top laner picked Quinn first).
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