: E damage does not proc Talisman on live. Maybe the misunderstanding stems from the fact that auto-attacks proc Talisman? Regardless, I have taken his jungle clear into account and tuned the ability to give him a similar clear speed. No worries there :)
: His early jungle shouldn't feel too different. Auto reset is powerful, and Hunter's Talisman will now proc on his E as well.
Cho'Gath's E already procs Hunter's Talisman on every single aa. That's why I was asking if you had taken his jungle clear into account.
: Hey OceanicEyes - As the designer currently working on Cho'gath, I'm glad the new E direction piques your interest. I'd like to shed a little light on the questions and concerns you expressed. One of the main goals with this update is to make Cho'gath's influence reflect his size and lack of mobility. It just doesn't sit right that the gigantic lumbering void terror is eminently kiteable, but is not sufficiently rewarded for finally making it into range. The new version of E provides a more persistent threat, offering agnostic %hp damage that makes even tanks leery of remaining in melee range for too long. Its windowed nature also reflects Cho's weakness in getting to / staying on high mobility targets. Toning down its 100% uptime allows us to make it a powerful ability even if you only get an auto or two off before Lucian dashes out of range. The slow also rewards Cho for making it to his target by giving him a window of "stickiness," rather than the current situation where dodging Q guarantees that your enemies walk away scot-free. Re: Mana costs, the E currently has an activation cost of 30 mana. Right now we're going with a reduction on the mana cost of Q to balance this out, and Cho hasn't demonstrated mana problems in internal playtests. The Q cost reduction is pending to change, but rest assured that we are conscious of the repercussions of adding a mana cost to a formerly mana-less ability and are looking to offset. AP Cho'gath will also remain alive and well - or perhaps end up in an even better spot! In the current iteration his Q/W/R damages and AP scalings are untouched, and the slow attached to E will allow him greater Q accuracy if he's willing to get up close and personal (or if he can find some clever pass-through angles). Hopefully this clears some things up, and thanks for the feedback as always!
Hi! Are you considering the impact this change might have on his clear speed and sustain in the jungle?
: Hmm...not sure how you got the impression I was ignoring questions through "fluffly evasion". I addressed the one direct question that OceanicEyes had around mana cost for E, and then added in some additional information around some other things we want to do with the ability. Currently we may considering looking at some of his mana costs on his other abilities, but won't be touching his mana pool or passive (at least not currently). No work being done regarding the animation. Though something to note regarding your comment about note be able to hit Q on anyone, with E now having a decaying slow it actually works really well for setting up your Q (the spell is still having the pass through spikes), so you can hit people at range with the slow which sets you up for an easier Q as opposed to you feeling like you have to fish for it all the time. Also worth noting that the Max HP damage applies to all units hit by the E spikes, not just the initial target, so you're still getting pass through damage on all creeps, not just the first one you attack. The ability will still apply spell effects, and I believe it's still an auto attack reset (though I'll need to confirm that). I'm stuck at home sick and not with the team so I can't just spin around in my chair :P.
Do you think the change could possibly hurt his clear speed and sustain in the jungle?
Rioter Comments
: To be fair it did backfire... hundreds of years later when the barbarians brought Roman tactics to their armies and they ended up conquering Rome. Of course, there were a bunch of other factors as well that allowed this to happen. The anti-barbarian riots in Rome and Constantinople where they ended up slaughtering the families of their own army did not help things. And the economic loss after the 3rd Crntury Crisis was huge. Rome was just a mess by the end.
I'm pretty sure that OP didn't mean that when he said it backfired.
: Is Noxus doing a mistake with forcing other factions into their army?
>just like the roman empire which allowed all these barbarians into their ranks and at the end it backfired I'm at a loss of words for how wrong you are. Do you guys even study western history at school?
: League needs a Female Champion with glasses
Sorry if {{champion:67}} isn't the stereotypical shy girl with glasses that you fetishize.
Wanfear (NA)
: Welcome to a world where junglers are given the same xp and gold as solo lanes, catchup XP if they fall behind, and itemization to just solo a laner they find trying to roam or ward.
: ROA is typically used with mages that need higher health (needs to be closer). With the eternity passive, that's essentially its job. Rod of ages when fully stacked isn't a bad item; 500 health, 400 mana (?), 100 AP and the eternity passive. Problem is, it takes 10 minutes. From my experience, 10 minutes is an awfully long time in the current game pacing to the point where getting something like {{item:3285}} is more valuable, because it gives everything up front. That's the problem. If it isn't upfront power in this current game state, it's useless.
RoA is still bought consistently even at higher elo, where games tend to be much shorter, so I don't think that your experience represents reality in an accurate way.
Rainfall (EUNE)
: Firstly:kindred does not build hurricane for the crit,she does so for the on hit effects and faster clear. Secondly:there are 3 ways to build an adc: crit on hit lehtality you just dont know the diference between on hit and crit adcs,just because she builds hurricane does not mean shes a crit adc.
1- Kindred don't build {{item:3085}} anymore. After the changes, they build either {{item:3087}} or {{item:3046}}. 2- Kindred no longer have on-hit effects, they were removed from their kit. They don't even build {{item:1419}} anymore, because their scalings were all changed into **bonus** AD. 3- How to build marksmen was never the topic of discussion and none but you has talked about it. You're completely missing the point of the conversation.
: > [{quoted}](name=RUCK FICKY,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r4YWtMMo,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2017-06-11T09:53:14.230+0000) > > It takes only 10 minutes for RoA to stack completely, so games are lasting enough for it for sure. Games genuinely end at 15 minutes now. You aren't getting RoA at 5 unless the enemy is doing something really wrong.
No, they don't. http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/rankings/game-durations
Rainfall (EUNE)
: adcs who build on hit items usualy build{{item:3085}} ,crit on kindred is inevitable.
You did not understand a thing of what I said.
: No class deserves and deserved an update more than divers
Your analysis is extremely superficial.
: Can We Talk About the Kindred Rework?
Kindred's rework was doomed to fail since the very beginning, because the concept of forcing junglers into crit builds is flawed. **Junglers can't wait for late game to be relevant**, they need to impact the game during the laning phase if they want to carry. How is a jungler (a role with low gold income) supposed to be a threat when they have little to no utility and their damage starts spiking only after 3 items (jungle item + tier 2 boots + crit item)?
: Champions should be immigrating into Noxus rather than running from it
>I was contemplating the other day how I feel more patriotic towards Noxus than towards any of the countries I've lived in If you support military dictatorships that commit war crimes, try central African countries.
: They do exist. Problem is they're slowly becoming more niche (protobelt is designed to be niche, but ROA and Archangels have become quick casting spell champs only (to stack it fast enough.) Zhonya's and Banshee only work if you're already fine on damage, otherwise you need something with more AP or artificial burst. Zhonya's also works on champions with ults that work while in stasis (kennen, morgana, and swain for instance.) I'm really asking for more items that provide actual AP amounts instead of just 2-3 of them being necessities just because they're the only options.
RoA stacks with time; it has nothing to do with quick casting spells.
: To be fair, games aren't lasting quite long enough for stacking items like {{item:3027}} and {{item:3003}} to be anywhere near as efficient as {{item:3165}} and {{item:3285}}. This could just be from my own experiences, though. However, I've seen plenty of other threads mention this same thing, so it must be a noticeable thing.
It takes only 10 minutes for RoA to stack completely, so games are lasting enough for it for sure.
: What If Warmog's Offered % Increased to Bonus Health Like Cinderhulk?
It's a bad idea. Warmog has already its niche and items with % health increase make you feel bad whenever you buy {{item:3110}} {{item:3025}} {{item:3075}}
: Yeah, I have no idea why riot gave her that ultimate after all the crap they've gotten from Trynd, Poppy, and Kayle because of similar ults.
Maybe because Kindred's ult actually has counterplays?
Reav3 (NA)
: For the most part all of our big VGUs have been very positively received by the majority of players. This is one of the reasons we keep doing them and have also increased the cadence of them, amount other reasons. Taric was very highly rated just not quite as high as the 3 above. The only 2 VGUs that had mixed player sentiment where GP and Fiora. Fiora was about her visuals even though her gameplay was very highly rated and GP was mainly about how much higher his skill floor became. Fiora and GP were our highest rated VGUs a year after release though, when looking at them in comparison to player sentiment around all champions in the game.
Was {{champion:14}} high rated as well? Because I don't want to live in a world where people enjoy Taric's rework more than Sion's.
: Can we please introduce more item variety?
I agree that there could be more variety, but why are you acting like these items {{item:3027}} {{item:3152}} {{item:3030}} {{item:3157}} {{item:3102}} {{item:3003}} don't exist? Also, try to make suggestions about new items instead of just saying that there should be more options.
: > [{quoted}](name=Chromatic Eagle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AYUihrQy,comment-id=00120003,timestamp=2017-06-09T19:23:03.319+0000) > > Thought he was intended as a top laner? We pivoted half-way through development from top lane to support with a top secondary. When we allowed W to eat allies it just made a lot more sense to have him lane with an ally. So the intention is support first, top secondary, and that's pretty much what we're seeing.
Slightly OT, but can you please remove the ally-targeting prioritisation from his W? It feels horrible for TK players, because it heavily limits their agency. For example, if they try to devour an enemy champion really close to one of their allies, most of the times the game automatically targets the ally instead, but this could be counterproductive for them, so they're forced to refrain themselves from using the spell altogether.
Sharjo (EUW)
: Probably nothing good.
: And why should i care? This is the boards, i can post what content I want, even if it's been done already or not
No, you can't. It's actually against the rules of the boards.
: uwot m8
It was posted 7 hours before your post. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/GJFsuYV9-skt-skins-teaser
: 2017 SKT T1 skins revealed
Dude, don't repost stuff that has already been posted by someone else.
Reav3 (NA)
: Before. It will go over many topics between VGUs and New Champions. Won't be announcing the next VGU yet though as we arn't completely locked on that yet, that should still be in the one that comes after Urgot. Will be giving some updates on current VGU progress though.
Are Urgot and Evelynn's reworks going to be the last two VGU of S7?
KoKoboto (NA)
: Illaoi is the only romantic relationship possible for Ahri
: I feel a 88% pick or ban ratio in D+ cannot be solved with 30 damage. All champions who have ever had such numbers required nerf after nerf over many patches.
: but it does 8% max hp dmg, so i dont think 10 dmg will be making a difference. He feels more like a cc disruption tank then one that does dmg.
It does make a huge difference. You have to think about the fact that it's his main tool to clear the jungle and that he has to use it multiple times on each camp. If you take away 10 damage from it, he's going to do at least 50 less damage per camp, which means he would have to use one more W than he currently uses, which means it's going to take about 3 more seconds per camp, which means he's going to have less time to gank.
Raiyza (NA)
: I just hate how Zac can gank from that massive range on a short cooldown.
It's a skill that has a lot of possible counterplays, so its power is justified.
: Why most pushing/minion power up buffs are Void themed?
Void's essence is basically "invade and destroy", so it fits thematically.
patmax17 (EUW)
: Ok, I agree with this analysis ^^ I'd then still need some good mana item for tanks, as said mana+20%CDR are HUGE on FH at the moment, and need to be replaced somehow if FH loses any of them ^^
{{item:3025}} and new {{item:3194}} (which is going to be built out of {{item:3010}} + {{item:1057}})
patmax17 (EUW)
: I'm not sure I understand the first part: mana items always had the "drawback" that you can't efficiently build them on manaless champions (think sheen)...scrap that, I probably completely missed what you tried to say. Could you please try to rephrase it? ^^'
Sure. I'm saying that both {{item:3110}} and {{item:3143}} need to exist, because each one has a unique niche: FH is meant to be a supportive item that you buy to keep **your teammates** alive, while Omen is a tank item that you buy to keep **yourself** alive. Anyways, there are some exceptions to the previous rule. For example, a champion that really wants cdr and mana will buy FH over Omen, while a manaless champion will always buy Omen for obvious reasons. In my opinion, a way to solidify the identity of both items would be to rework FH by removing the mana from its stats (maybe by changing the build path into {{item:3082}} + {{item:3067}}), thus making it universally viable and the go-to item to counter AS + on-hit builds. At the same time Omen could be reworked to counter crit based builds. If {{item:3075}} was cheaper and lost its current passive for a new one that applies Grevious Wounds on the attacker, it could become a component for Omen: just swap Wardens with Thormail from its current build path and change the "Cold steel" passive into the new one that gives GW. Now you have an item that passively prevents your enemies from lifestealing from you and gives you an active slow to reduce their ability to kite, which is the perfect counter against marksmen, Yasuo and Tryndamere.
: Oh maybe I misread... I thought that's what you were saying
I was listing the reasons why both FH and Omen need to exist: - FH can't be built on manaless champions - even when you have mana, you might want to build Omen over FH because it gives hp - instead of buying Omen that gives selfish stats, supports buy FH because of its aura
: I disagree that getting a frozen heart is considered selfish. The main point of getting it would be to lower atk speed of enemies that live off it like yi or tryndamere, or a comp with 2 or more adc's, or to reduce crit dmg so u won't be one shot by say, a gp barrel, come late game. Omen also gives a slow (more cc) And FH gives a whole 20% cdr which is needed for support players to spam our abilities to save our teammates from themselves.
: how do we make immobile melees with no ranged attacks NOT stat checks
The answer is simple: {{champion:420}} {{champion:122}} windowed power and "unreliable" spells
: Teaching thread
They should make a subboard called "Query Den" or something like that.
patmax17 (EUW)
: I followed all the iterations of randuin/thornmail that went on and off PBE over the last months. I'm a tank player and thisis relevant to my experience in LoL :D One thing that makes me wonder about all these attempts: with randuin, frozen heart and thornmail, isn't the niece of the anti-autoattacker items too crowded? I think it will be hard to keep all three items interesting, and maybe it would be worth reducing the number of items to two? I would take a step back, analyze the three items, their intended strength/niche and see what's needed, what works and what not (I guess that's what you do all day long, basically?). Forzen heart I think is very strong but has an unclear identity: it gives a lot of mana and cdr, making it a very interesting choice for mana-based casters (i.e. almost every tank), but its armor+aura make it very anti-autoattackers focused, which is a second, distinct identity. Randuin gives HP alongside armor and has initiation/peeling potential (partially overlapping with righteous glory). I find the cold steel passive quite underwhelming, since if i'm the tank i'm usually not the one who's focussed, and I don't feel the attack speed reduction helps my teammates much. It looks more like an item for duelist fighters, but it doesn't give offensive stats. Thornmail is the most focues item, giving a ton of armor without any other stat, and being the go-to item when you are focused by the enemy ADC. Its identity is clear, but it's a seldomly bought item because its use case doesn't happen very often. Not sure what could be possible alternatives, brainstorming here: - making randuin an item for fighters, maybe giving some AD (build path with jaurim's fist+warden's mail?) - making an anti-autoattacker item with armor, some thornmail passive (the current one or the grievous wound one) and something similar to FH's aura (but maybe not an aura? it could be an active that creates a point-blank AoE frost zone for 6-8 seconds that slows autos? Dunno, something more noticeable) - putting mana+cdr on some other item (which are very strong stats btw). Not sure here though, since any item giving those stats withouth another passive linking it to a niche situation would make it a must-buy on any tank
Both {{item:3110}} and {{item:3143}} have to exist because there are manaless champions, champions that prefer mana and cdr over health and support champions that want to buy more team-oriented items rather than "selfish" stats. The only way to lower the number of anti-autoattack items would be turn FH into a cdr + armor + health item (this way anyone could buy it) and Omen into the improved version of Thornmail (by that I mean an item that counters lifesteal and crits rather than just AS and on-hits).
: > [{quoted}](name=RUCK FICKY,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jHIv0Rnb,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-02T20:22:22.722+0000) > > You're right, I forgot Rumble, although I don't think that Shyvana ever wanted to build Abyssal Mask. Shyvana does 50/50 magic and physical, skewed up to 10%ish either direction depending on her build. I would say it was even more than that in the magic direction when Feral Flare was a thing. And what other MR item does she want? SV heal is kinda wasted on her, and adaptive is entirely dependent on exactly which enemy champs are bringing MDMG threats. Aside from that, you've got the no-HP mr items like Maw and Wits.
>SV heal is kinda wasted on her Not if she builds {{item:3153}}, has a healer in her team or has killed a bunch of ocean drakes.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 6
Is there any news on {{item:3022}} or {{item:3116}}? If I remember correctly, you guys were thinking about reworking or removing them altogether. Also, what's your opinion on the current balance state of marksmen? Some of them look quite stronger than the others and the role as a whole seem to have a greater impact on the results of the games than in the past. Is that something you agree with?
: > [{quoted}](name=RUCK FICKY,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jHIv0Rnb,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-06-03T09:26:36.342+0000) > > {{champion:14}} does physical damage, so he's definitely out of the picture. Besides helping out his team with the aura, Sion's W and E are magic damage.
: On the other hand: {{champion:12}} {{champion:32}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:89}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:113}} {{champion:27}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:223}} All are mana users, a lot of whom likely appreciate the Eternity passive. Especially with Doran's Ring getting nerfed to prevent stacking them. I'm probably going to be told that they can just buy RoA, though.
{{champion:14}} does physical damage, so he's definitely out of the picture. Support {{champion:12}} {{champion:89}} {{champion:111}} and {{champion:223}} don't have the gold income to build Abyssal Mask. {{champion:32}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:113}} already build either {{item:3110}} or {{item:3025}}, so they don't need the extra mana. {{champion:27}} is probably the only champion that's really interested in the new build path, considering the fact that they've also changed {{item:3800}}.
: > [{quoted}](name=RUCK FICKY,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jHIv0Rnb,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-06-02T15:34:48.476+0000) > > {{champion:98}} {{champion:154}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:85}} are all going to be locked out of the item. > > I'm not including {{champion:55}} and {{champion:84}} because they both can easily build {{item:3156}} as their secondary defensive item against magic damage. This is exactly what I saw when they first suggested this change. You also forgot {{champion:68}} as a big user of the item. I'd argue in its current state, it's not a bad pickup for {{champion:102}} either. Now all of these champions will be kinda screwed out of the item, since none can use eternity.
You're right, I forgot Rumble, although I don't think that Shyvana ever wanted to build Abyssal Mask.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 2
Hi, can we have some context on the Abyssal Mask changes currently on the PBE? In particular, I'm worried about the affinity between manaless champions and the item.
: I'm like 90% sure that the edge cases for this item are incredibly small. I think that since they removed the Catalyst building into Righteous Glory, they wanted to put it back onto a tank item, and I think Abyssal Mask is the perfect choice. It is an incredible pick for Singed and Amumu now, and there's quite a few more who will love it. It'll do more good on the whole, because those manaless champs probably weren't dealing lots of magic damage anyway.
{{champion:98}} {{champion:154}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:85}} {{champion:68}} are all going to be locked out of the item. I'm not including {{champion:55}} and {{champion:84}} because they both can easily build {{item:3156}} as their secondary defensive item against magic damage. Edit: added Rumble.
Rioter Comments
: Looking at the changes, I assume kindred's damage on jungle monsters has gone down significantly.
Not really. I feel like the problem lies in their early/mid game pvp interactions.
: I am so happy you guys changed Kindred!
Good luck surviving until you can buy crit items!
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