: Seriously though, Where is Pykes punish window?
: Pink wards actually feel tankier than quite a bit of champions right now
KnifeCat (OCE)
: Sylas might be the biggest balance nightmare in the history of League
WoOxêr (EUW)
: That's the whole point? U can't shut him down, if u win lane against trynd, he afk farms and split pushes swaps with bot lane etc. If trynd wins lane, gets fed, he will 1v5 ur team, split push and solo carry the game. This champ is too rewarding for only right clicking and dodging one or two skill shots.
Ohno, we can't completely remove an enemy from the game... ...He still has tools to do something even when he is behind. Man that's so unfair. And holyshit he is able to do smth when he is fed!? like the hell? who else does that. And then the splitpush... holy shit that stuff's unbearable. A 5 man deathball is so much better, requires much more skill like positioning (splitpushing doesn't!) and you actually have interesting fights like when everything blows up. Any strategy outside deathball should just be nerfed to the ground... /s
Moody P (NA)
: Tanks are much healthier when they do sustained damage than burst damage
Do you really think a tank has the option of using more time than 1 rotation of spells costs? The tank would be dead by then.
: Karma Gameplay Change Preview
That new W is only going to widen the disparity between solo queue and pro play. Q higher initial damage: lowers incentive to play smart with the root.
Moody P (NA)
: i miss when i could be tanky because i had tank items
Yup first tankyness got nerfed. fighters weren't as tanky so started buying more damage to stay relevant. (some) Tanks get buffs to offset this. Squishies complain about too much damage and complain about being irrelevant (as adc is kind of obsolete with only squishies) Adc get buffs, enchanters becomes stronger (incentivizing more damage) Comminity is angry as adc are way too strong. Mages feel left out. Adc get nerfs (later reverted) and enchanters get also nerfed. Mages get semi buffed. Fighters get some buffs to their kit (mostly damage though)
: > [{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tZPOcxjE,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2018-10-17T16:52:51.974+0000) > > hard disagree, tanks have been much bigger problems for balance team in recent years than they were in the old times. Perhaps, but they weren’t necessarily hard balances because of defense, but because of offense. Maokai had the full AP E situation, Sejuani’s passive damage was usually considered her biggest issue, and in Ornn’s case his issue was when they changed his W from %current to %max after a series if other buffs and attempted QoL changes. Now, I’ve been away a bit, but I have yet to hear of any tank being an issue solely because of defense, but rather their defense on top of damage. Which leads me into... > back in the day the issue was that fighters would almost always use the items better since they actually do damage This is exactly the same situation as the assassin situation I mentioned previously, seen most often by champs like Ekko, Zed, and Akali (at least Sunfire Akali). But that should say something that Fighters were better users of tank items, which means they became unkillable damage dealers, and that takes away from the tanks. So the question is, is it healthier to take nerf fighters or adjust tank stats. Either way, damage dealers becoming unkillable just by tank items was a big issue over the years, and now the power is within the tanks’ kits themselves. > volibear's not outdated but his stats certainly are; his kit is actually solid on its core after the E buff this season, but he just completely lacks the numbers to support him in a 2018 game Volibear is outdated, both stats and kit. I see that E adjust, and it adds an interesting mechanic, but Volibear’s kit is still a run up and auto kit. Beyond casting E for a dash, there isn’t much in terms of skill expression for him, and either he has the stats and time to drop you or he doesn’t.
Not all assassins could build tank items and still expect to do good. Ekko could buy tanky items because of his high base stats, aoe stun and % heal (which is also a nice getaway spell). longer fights were incentivised with his passive. Akali didn't have too high scalings either and incentivised sticking prolonged durations to targets with the low cooldown abilities and energy restores. The shroud allowed to first soak up a lot of damage and then disappear quickly -something no other tank has (except ekko). Sunfire would go trough shroud continuing dealing damage. Her damage wasn't nearly has high as assasin akali. Combine that with a meta with a lot of durable fighters and tanks who can stun you (death sentence for a squishy) and you can't really hurt them, and the incentive for a tank build is quite a bit higher than a glass canon build. Champions like zed, diana, rengar, shaco, talon, kassa, kata, noc and kha would not build tank.
XeroKimo (NA)
: When I look at the patch history now, you're already dealing near true damage to turrets, and I don't remember seeing them drop pen affecting their res, so at some point, for some champions, earth drake would help pretty minimally to them, while more helpful for others, like demolish. Harold on the other hand, has been a wild ride, but the current one, I really like, you use it at the right opportunity, you get 2 - 3 towers, use it at the wrong time, you get none, heck, it doesn't even have to be used to get a tower, because it's something that can force a rotation, you can use it to relieve pressure from one lane, so someone can split push. This could very well be the intention Riot has gone for adding Harold in the first place, and since turrets have been more tanky, it's really hard to siege against champions that can stall the game. So this would force a play too, rather than the constant rotations just to grab side waves, and group, as an example.
Earth drake provides a bonus to your damage of 10/20/30% (50/100% more with elder). It does not convert that percentage of your damage done to true damage like conqueror. So whether or not you deal near true damage(very debatable as 55+ pen is hardly reached), it is at least 10/....% more. Good point of you that penetrations also affect turret and that demolish exists.
XeroKimo (NA)
: Misconceptions of modern League
Turrets: as you said, they first had double resistance the first 8 minutes. Now they have reinforcements only the first 5 minutes. Don't forget about the magic damage(ap scaling) to turrets which has been buffed enormously. And some other additions to the game like earth drake and harold increase damage to towers.
Xhaiden (EUNE)
: Some of the effects are nice - but can't say that i like this skin (the model, the choice of colors - both for Kled and Skaarl / maybe some chroma could help a bit).
That's part of the sales plan. They make the default skin look quite crappy, then they ship a bunch of chroma's with it so people will a) either buy the entire bundle or b) buy a chroma with rp directly. profit!
: Aight Morde players, I'ma need you to be reasonable for a second
Reminds me of the interaction of Yorick ghouls/wall with Urgots W. You get punished for using your own abilities
: > [{quoted}](name=Nausicäa ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1bXj9mbs,comment-id=00260000,timestamp=2018-10-05T07:11:54.400+0000) > > Its the fact that Riot explicitly stated they wanted to reduce the burst damage that ADC's do to squishy champions as part of the ADC rework. > > Maybe get informed and have some basic knowledge before you comment, thanks. Sadly, there isn't really a way to do that without REDUCING ADC damage. Since dealing damage is their entire role, and when they deal less damage to squishies, they'll deal less to tanks as well. ADCs also have the benefit of using AD, which is kind of inherently better than AP, especially early on, because auto attacks are a thing and some have abilities capable of hitting pretty damn hard. When Riot reduced their damage, the ADCs complained that they weren't as relevent and that the game didn't revolve around just them anymore, so Riot backpedaled and gave them stormrazor.
That is assuming their dps is constant. A champion like Jhin or crit already deviates from that idea. Scaling armor pen works better against high armor. % max health damage, provided by for example botrk, is better against high health targets. So you can, for example, reduce ADC damage to squishies, but keep the damage to tanks roughly equal with those stats. It is also tied with crits. If a squishy takes 3.5 normal attacks to die, but a crit occurs (2.5) then all of a sudden only 1 attack is needed instead of 4. That's pretty much what was happening. The few normal attacks don't feel that bad or unjustified, but when RNG happens (at the first aa) and takes 2/3 of your hp it is quite frustrating.
Psaion (NA)
: In what way is this game being run in a direction for the younger generation of snowlakes? This is a genuine question, not a rhetorical criticism. How is it that this game is trying to keep people in a 'safety bubble' from the truth?
> [{quoted}](name=Psaion,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Pm2Y3Tpb,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-10-02T18:09:16.478+0000) > > In what way is this game being run in a direction for the younger generation of snowlakes? This is a genuine question, not a rhetorical criticism. How is it that this game is trying to keep people in a 'safety bubble' from the truth? 1. This has probably to do with the common idea that the younger generation has a shorter attention span and/or wants immediate gratification. Things that do not give immediate gratification are phased out for things that are. Say for example: Micro play, which is easier to notice than macro, is made more prominent. Strategy makes place for flashy runes. Tactics is standardized. Teamwork is exchanged for individual skill. The notion that everything needs to somehow be out-playable by you alone. 2. I think OP is talking about the punishing system. Advices or questions on the internet are quickly seen as critique. The reaction will then also be most likely offensive. This could be tied to a notion that nowadays little is tolerated and that people quickly take offence. Or to put it in OP's words: "we don't want our bubble to be popped". The punishment system triggers when people are displeased and report the one popping their bubble. It therefore flags the popper as potentially "toxic" and (if this happens often enough) a punishment might follow.
ExpStealer (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=A2xL6X3h,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-10-01T13:33:00.957+0000) > > I've observed this sort of thing a lot, and I have some thoughts on why. > > For starters, people in general like to jump on topics they agree with. "Zed is frustrating to play against" and "Zed is overpowered" are close enough points that they grab both people, and ambiguous enough that people who feel he's overpowered because X or frustrating because Y can generally agree. > > "Zed needs buffs and these are the buffs I'd give him," on the other hand, exposes you to downvotes from people who think he's balanced/overpowered, people who thing he's frustrating, people who just want to punch down an idea they're not fond of, people who think your changes go too far, AND people who agree with don't think you picked the RIGHT changes. > > It's something I'd love to see change, but I'm not really sure how you'd go about it, ultimately. Thing is I proposed nerfs. *Nerfs*. Not buffs. It's literally what the complainers want, except I made it so Zed can dish out his current level of damage against whoever he ults if he has both shadows around. Basically I made it so he can only one-shot someone if he executes his full combo and misses nothing. Which is why I'm confused about this whole ordeal.
> [{quoted}](name=ExpStealer,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=A2xL6X3h,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-10-01T15:16:15.731+0000) > > Thing is I proposed nerfs. *Nerfs*. Not buffs. It's literally what the complainers want, except I made it so Zed can dish out his current level of damage against whoever he ults if he has both shadows around. Basically I made it so he can only one-shot someone if he executes his full combo and misses nothing. Which is why I'm confused about this whole ordeal. Too long and too complicated posts scare away the majority of upvoters
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Rouwhorst,realm=EUW,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=2imTemIi,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-09-25T20:44:16.153+0000) > > its ugly af, since when are bats/vampires purple. > Heck I didn't even notice it was a vampire as I want to minimize looking at that thing. Count van Count was purple.
Atleast the rest of him is black would take him over this monstrosity
: My feedback on Kled skin
its ugly af, since when are bats/vampires purple. Heck I didn't even notice it was a vampire as I want to minimize looking at that thing.
: Macro play matters most in lower elos. The difference between high and low elo besides individual skill is correct macro play. Low elo games are more swingy because no one knows how to close out a game. Low elo is also one of the fewer places where you can actually 1v9 because your macro is better. Most people complain about "win lane lose game", but constantly sitting 4/0 in mid lane and doing nothing with the lead is meaningless. Roam. Shot call. People are too scared to make proactive calls and instead complain when 3 people on the enemy team come mid first since you didnt roam bot with your massive lead before this point. Also, in lower elo games Baron is taken far less than it should even when it's super free.
Just had an low elo game. They kept suiciding 1v4 trying to fight over nothing. 3 man fight mid versus 5 while 1 isn't even close and the other is doing dragon. That kind of shit.
: One of the biggest problems I see moving past this season and beyond
> They grew up in a word of instant-gratification because everything they want is always at their fingertips, they will have no patience for trying something they do not like and going back to it. That instant gratification thing made me think... doesn't the quicker, more micro oriented game cater more to them? Therefore, even though old players might not have grown up with this gratification thing or have surpassed it, the younger ones will still play. I think this is for Riot the most lucrative way then.
Terozu (NA)
: Ummm Veigar begs to differ.
Veigar has an additional effect of stopping dashes. On the [wiki this is called knockdown](https://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Knockdown#Knockdown). A few other abilities have this effect. When Riot added this effect all they did was add the word "stopped" near the "stunned" part and called it a day. Another (type of) exception is Yasuo's E, a dash that can be stopped by immobilizing cc.
Shahamut (NA)
: My thoughts on Skarner's Spires [Long Post]
One should not force champions into a category that quick. What happens then is that changes happen for the sake of the champion fitting in. Which is of course nonsense, the categories are descriptive of a particular play style of a champion (group), not an enforcer of them.
: I gotta explain statchecking ok. Statchecking occurs when a champion's damage output and defense allows them to statistically beat out another champion's damage output and defense. This is primarily referred to when abilities that require skillful usage are absent from the fight. What dictates who wins is, by the name, whoever statchecks harder. How one is determined to win the statcheck is by who has better stats. How one acquires better stats is both through base stats, passive, abilities, level growth and items. If two champions are nearly identical in stats, then the one that gains a stat advantage via the above mentioned areas, becomes the better statchecker. Additionally, due to the above mentioned areas, some champions simply outstatcheck other champions at certain stages of the game while swapping roles at other points. On top of that, there are 8 other players involved in the game. And to answer the rhetorical question, this is why 100% WR doesn't occur.
Okay, thanks. I'd like you also to respond to the rest of my initial post (1 sentence nitpick is a bit meh) Still, a champion being stronger in certain areas or stages does not make it bad. Also, what is the precise definition of skillful. Pressing a button? Pressing a button and having the cursor in the correct place? It's a pretty grey area. And even then, there are often ways to play around it, like not fighting, careful positioning, wave management, ect. _But no... let's not have that, everybody and everything needs to be outplayable by immediate interaction_
: > [{quoted}](name=Rouwhorst,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hEM5GpUE,comment-id=000400000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-24T11:32:38.093+0000) > > Nonsense, merely by them also having the chance to stat-check makes it even again. There is no chance in statchecking, thus the name.
Then where does stat check originate from? Champions? So a certain champion would have 100% Wr cuz stats?
: > [{quoted}](name=Rouwhorst,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hEM5GpUE,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-24T07:17:35.757+0000) > > Let's not focus all of our attention to micro plays and act as if it's the only thing that makes league fun. Nah let's actually focus on that for a bit. Was playing against Tryndamere's crits fun (funny that it's still a thing)? Was playing against Renekton as literally any melee champion fun? Was playing against Mordekaiser fun? There's a reason we focus more on micro plays now, because pure statcheckers are not fun. That's why Morde got a rework so he isn't just bursting people down with 0 counterplay by pressing E and Renekton's damage is now rightfully about half of what it used to be so now he actually has to wittle his opponents (that now have more counterplay options) down with poke instead of simply level 2 rage W Q ignite oneshot/sending them back to base. The reason it was fun was because mid and bot lane were primarily contested by skillshot reliant champions. Top lane was never fun, it was always a statcheck fiesta until we slowly got updates and new champions that could do more than simply statcheck. The fun we top laners derived from our lane was the sadistic pleasure in knowing we could outstatcheck our opponent and later statcheck multiple opponents at once. The fun part about Morde was knowing you could literally 1v5 with so little skill and counterplay that you were a literal monster. It was a different kind of fun that was derived from removing fun from our opponents.
Perhaps it was. You (and we) are looking at it differently now than back then. We are so focussed on being able to outplay our opponents, flashy plays and being able to dodge skills that the other strategies and skills barely matter anymore. (let's not forget Riot's play in this) Top lane wasn't only about stat checking, no lane was. If really no skill was involved... why did not all top laners get to challenger by simply stat checking their opponent? It was much, much more than stat-checking. Renekton hardly got any nerfs after his release. Only shortly after his release he got a few nerfs, which is normal to have on any champion. After that only bugfixes, buffs and minor changes. > The reason it was fun was because mid and bot lane were primarily contested by skillshot reliant champions. Top lane was never fun, it was always a statcheck fiesta until we slowly got updates and new champions that could do more than simply statcheck. >The fun we top laners derived from our lane was the sadistic pleasure in knowing we could outstatcheck our opponent and later statcheck multiple opponents at once. The fun part about Morde was knowing you could literally 1v5 with so little skill and counterplay that you were a literal monster. It was a different kind of fun that was derived from removing fun from our opponents. Nonsense, merely by them also having the chance to stat-check makes it even again. Bit weird that toplane was much more enjoyable back then if this was the case...
: General discussion of knock-ups VS Stuns
One significant difference between displacements and stuns I have not yet seen on this post. Displacements can interrupt dashes. Stuns can not.
Moody P (NA)
: Can Volibear have base stats and scaling that make sense for a Juggernaut?
Let's compare his base stats with... Pyke... (just for funz) Volibear --//-- pyke > Health 584.5 – 2046.5 --//-- 600 – 2300 > Attack damage 68 – 124.1 --//-- 62 – 96 > Health regen. 8 – 19.1 --//-- 7 – 15.5 > Attack speed [*] 0.658 (+ 0 – 45.4%) --//-- 0.667 (+ 0 – 42.5%) > Mana 270.4 – 780.4 --//-- 415 – 1265 > Armor 35 – 94.5 --//-- 45 – 130 > Mana regen. 8.1 – 19.1 --//-- 8 – 25 > Magic resist. 32.1 – 53.4 --//-- 32 – 66 > Range 125 --//-- 150 > Move. speed 345 --//-- 330
DeusVult (NA)
: with stat checks?? Yes The most fun that I or most other people I play the game with have when playing league is when you are fighting someone else who SHOULD kill you, but you outplay them by dodging etc to get the kill. A stat check champ doesnt allow that. They can miss 90% of their kit and still win because they outstat you. Look at Mundo, who I believe is the worst when it comes to stat check kits. If you can kill him, early game you kill him. As the game progresses, you can continue to kill him if you stay far enough ahead of him in terms of stats. But if mundo ever gets ahead of you in that regard, than you CANNOT fight him, and if you even get near to him he will just chase you down with Q spam. No fun or counterplay to truly be had.
I mean, back in the beginning of league there weren't a lot of outplay possibilities for melee/fighter champions. Or let's just say there were a lot more stat-checks back then. Yet people still had fun. Let's not focus all of our attention to micro plays and act as if it's the only thing that makes league fun.
Freebo (NA)
: if you have issues tabbing out and it takes long look here(Solution)
> you know when you tab out and it takes forever to get back into the game with a black screen for like 5 seconds? yeah... yeah! > this is a windows 10 specific problem A crap... _Cries in windows 7_
: > [{quoted}](name=Helixarrow,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Qk8fLxHH,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-20T17:37:10.298+0000) > > LOL I don't think they'd go that hard on Targon. They're only going so hard on the Void because the Void is the Big Bad of the setting, which sadly means that other (more interesting) villains like Mordekaiser are cast aside. The Void is the superior organism, and all will fall before it! In all seriousness I kind of agree. The Void is my favorite faction in the game, but I would like to see some other villains get to be as big of a threat as the Void currently is. By the way if a Shadow Isles lore update is soon, the Isles may very well be a challenge for even the Void...
What, no ofcourse not! the shadow Isles get completely retconned and explained trough the void. Something, something... "yeah giant explosion"... and then there was shadow isles but magic transformed the voidborn into undead...?
: This is an interesting rework. I think the strongest aspect of it is the concept of storing the health cost as metal, and channeling it with your W. The Q cast paradigm also seems interesting, but maybe a bit unrewarding. (also, turning his classic 3 hit Q into something not related to the number 3 may be a bad idea. Maybe keep the Q as it is, and make it so after you've activated both casts your next auto-attack becomes a mega-damaging mace slam.) Another suggestion would be to add some synergy with any ghosts he gets with his R, like how he can currently cast his W on it for the movespeed and heal. I really like this rework personally, but I feel like you could push it a little further, with some wild or wacky stuff! Here you've essentially modernized his current kit, try and go further! its a great starting point. I especially like the use of the Grounded mechanic on W. overall, good stuff! would love to see any changes you make.
Why is removing the number 3 a bad idea? The Q does seem unrewarding, I give you that. But keep in mind that it applies knock down and has an AOE. Also, the second activation is already a (ground) slam, so adding yet another feels wrong. But I like your suggestion. Synergy with his ghosts is quite difficult as Mordekaiser is quite a selfish character. Everything is really focussed on him, not his servants. Yes, he made the sorcerers undead, but that was so they could aid and resurrect **him**. He made the Immortal Bastion to protect himself. He uses undead as foot soldiers. The kit I made does not lend it self well in aiding allies. Currently his ultimate gives him a portion of his targets health and ap. (sort of stealing) Mimicking abilities does not seem desirable. The only interaction I can think of right now would be on his E, allowing him to drain his ghost as well, perhaps with increased strength (as there is no flesh to resist it).
Rioter Comments
: @Riot: No keystone deserves to give 20% true damage.
I don't get why Renekton would abuse it with his cooldowns better? Nor do I understand why the rune is so extremely broken on the other champions mentioned. It allows champions to excel at longer fights. Electrocute pretty much does higher burst damage. Mind you, it has a 3 seconds charge time, then it requires an attack on an enemy champion and only then it activates for 3 seconds unless you attack as melee.
Gawdyr2G (NA)
: Can you please fucking give Trynamere a new passive so he can stop luckily killing me level 1?
: Most Knockbacks tend to be shorter than actual Stuns or Roots though, that's why they aren't affected by Tenacity. I think the longest to date is either Yasuo's or Jannas. Then, arguably, it's actually easier to balance a Champ kit's around the fact that they'll always have this reliable CC that always last this long, no more, no less. It's like the argument of Grevious Wounds on Vlad. (They need to balance him around the fact that GV exists, and so his healing is really strong without it, so that he isn't completely butt fucked when someone buys GV for him). If Tenacity exists, then some champions can't do their job properly, and so, the CC that is affected needs to be longer. This in turn, fucks over the people who don't buy Tenacity. A lot of Mages can only survive on their range and CC.
Mind you, a knockback is not the same as a knockup as there is also speed involved. What would tenacity do with knockbacks? a) reduce the time of knockbacks so the distance knocked back is also reduced b) increase the speed of knockbacks so the distance is maintained but you are faster knocked back Both are not really always good. And on top of that, I doubt riot could even pull off either off the two seeing how most knock backs are still bugged.
5050BS (NA)
: We need to add a Steadfast ability or a Size to things that affects Knockups like Tenacity does to stuns/slows/roots Size would be a good one. Things have a Size ranging from 1 to 6 Minion (melee, caster) has Size 1 Cannon has size 2 Siege Minions are size 3 Blue/Red are Size 4 Teemo has Size 2 Normal Human champs have Size 3 Cho'Goth starts out as Size 2 and ends at size 4 Zac ranges from size 2 to 4 Barron is Size 6 Elemental Drakes, Rift Herald are Size 5 Elder Drake is size 6 Knockups have a power that will knockup anything less then or equal to its power and interrupt anything more then its power. Yasuo Tornado has power 3 Sion Knockup is Power 2-4 as he charges it Reksai knockup is power 4 Aatrox knockup is power 2,3,4 Lulu Ult adds +2 to Size {{item:2138}} adds +1 to Size Some champs could have passives or abilities that add to their size for a short time (out side of Zac and Cho) Even some champs could be Size 4 by default like Sej, Sion, Mundo, Malphite, Urgot
That's quite a bit to remember don't you think?
Zerenza (NA)
: Her Q prioritizes a champion, only if the champion was previously hit by the Skillshot. Meaning that when she is near a minion wave, regardless of how close you are it will always prioritize minions, with 200 games of experiencing this exact thing, i'm really surprised your still arguing this.
I don't care how many games you have or claim to have on Evelynn. I tested this in the practise tool and found otherwise. I encourage you to do the same.
Zerenza (NA)
: Her Q auto targets the nearest target first, prioritizing champions, even if it'll target in your direction the range is miniscule at best and by standing outside of the range of the auto target, or say if she missed her Skillshot Q, it will always target minions over the champion, it's in the tooltip and also i'v learned this from over 200 games with her. The only dash she has is on her E, it's 350 range but it follows blinks and other dashes if timed correctly, other than that the only blink she has is on her R, which has a 2 minute cooldown at level 6 and is her primary kill tool at level 6 since she won't be 100-0ing you without it pre 3 items. Her engage can be easy but if you play your lane correctly, mid game correctly as one of her primary targets you can severely hinder her ability to catch you out. This meta heavily favor's her because the number of targets she can hunt down ranges anywhere from 3-5 when it should only be 2-3 that makes a huge difference because until she get's voidstaff she won't be doing much damage to a tank and there are plenty of champions you can pick that hard counter her as well, some of those champions aren't meta because the other champions pushed them out. {{champion:25}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:238}} {{champion:223}} {{champion:50}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:77}} {{champion:5}} All of these champions either have an ability that hard counter's her W, or are better duelists early and can simply invade her to make her lose out on her level 6 power spike, i'v been hard punished by Lee Sin's quite often to the point where i wasn't 6 until 10-12 minutes into the game, usually i'm level 6 at 8 minutes in, delaying my time to be a good jungler by a lot, lowering my gold income by taking my camps, and getting themselves fed off of me because i can't do anything about them, it requires a lot of teamwork to stop invades as Evelynn, she can't duel them at all. Alternatively any champion that can build Edge of Night, Banshee's Veil and Mercurial Scimitar has ample counterplay to her as well, all three of those items hard counter her W and increase your MR forcing her to go Void Staff earlier than usual. And, to top it all off she also does horribly against tanks and simply grouping by mid to late game forces her into a possition where she literally can't do anything without sacrificing herself aswell. In addition against other assassins she does poorly, especially against the AD ones, mainly because they can build Deaths Dance and negate 15% of her upfront burst, along with building Edge of Night.
Q reactivation range seems to be around 500 units (comparable with bard, Jayce, kog'maw, lucian, malzahar, sivir and teemo) >or say if she missed her Skillshot Q, it will always target minions over the champion What do you mean with this? If she missed her Q all together (so she hit no one) then the spikes will search for the most recent damaged enemy, the closest champion and then the closest minion in range, in that order. In fact, these rules always apply, regardless if she hit her Q. I'm sure she has ample counter play but that is not what we are talking about. I'd rather talk about how her Q skillshot is deceptively important (for her charm) It gives nothing but false hope 9/10 times. Just like Zoe's E (hey, you have been hit try to get to safety! JK you die regardless of your actions) Or to a lesser extend LB's chain (hey look! a range indicator... if only you get to that edge you will be safe JK you will never reach it in time).
: The Death of Tahm kench support
I am all in for TK nerfs as that fish is just unfun to play against, both him in top and him in support. But this change is pushing him into toplane where I want him more gone than in bot.
: I mean, Rengar is supposed to do that, Wukong isn't. Rengar doesn't have a huge AoE knockup on top of that
Wukong was released as an AoE assassin. Categorizing him differently does not change his kit.
Ahpe (NA)
: It was given to us because Rito completely forgot to make a keystone for bruisers, it was just a coincidence that it totally fucked over tanks. True damage should only be accessible to champions with it already built into their kits because it's a pain in the ass to go up against since it can go through armour, MR and flat damage reduction like {{champion:39}} W or {{champion:79}} W. Please show screenshots of where true damage does less work than physical damage.
: Why would you want to spread misconceptions?
: 500 range is very low considering its targets priorities. Probably. Nothing really unique about her tho. This applies to most junglers or ganking in general. That in order to unload it and deal that much she has to land her skillshot and wait 1.5 sec. And nowadays there are champs that can do that faster. *sigh* SPIKES: Evelynn projects a line of spikes in the direction of her attack target, dealing magic damage to all enemies struck. Hate Spike **will prioritize the nearest enemy if she does not have an attack target**.
Do you really want me to add a line to the wiki that states that it will prioritize champions over minions?
: > [{quoted}](name=Rouwhorst,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vWIBuEfQ,comment-id=000b000000010000,timestamp=2018-08-15T10:11:02.905+0000) > > Closest target... is in most situations the person with the charm on. (and even if there is someone closer it passes trough and can still hit) Charm is a point and click, not a skillshot. On top of this, it prioritizes the first target hit with Q so minion blocking is very effective. Second, who the hell stays stilll when charmed? The main reason she isnt olayed by pros is because grouping up screws her assassination ability. > 1.5 seconds is still quite quick. > Only doing 1 spike and 2 other ability or basic attack hits still deals 240 + **135**% + (45 +30%) per Q hit That is because herE is max hp based and deals a low amount of flat danage. It is why Q is maxed forst because it allows her to kill swuidhes where as her E is more for tanky targets and late game scaling. She is like talon, at level 3, she only has 2 damaging abilities. The damage is necessary, and because it is skillshot based it is full of counter play. > Note that we are not really talking about the death ball fights, where everybody get's one shot, but rather a gank situation in which she can get her 1.5 seconds (which is of course horribly delayed burst) off.
I was referring to the Q which is a skillshot. The spikes prioritize champions over minions so standing in a minion wave doesn't help not getting charmed. Technically nobody stays still when charmed, they move towards the charmer. Moving... sure but so does eve, invisible, possibly from an angle, with larger Q range than detection range. She has her W which reduces magic resist so it sort of does damage. Skillshot based, sure but only the first part. The second part can just go off even if she missed. Which is kinda stupid but it would be fine... if she really needed that damage to kill. But i have had so many occasion where an Evelynn missed her Q, just to press Q again for a free charm for 1+ seconds which translates directly in death.
: > Closest target... is in most situations the person with the charm on Em, why did the target allow eve to get that close? Her detection range is 650. > 1.5 seconds is still quite quick In the past. Nowadays its pretty slow. > Only doing 1 spike and 2 other ability or basic attack hits still deals 240 + 135% + (45 +30%) per Q hit And your point being? That she deals dmg? Every assassin deals dmg. You could say that she deals more dmg than others assasssins but, considering that she literally has to walk up to them its only natural. She is the only assassins that lacks the usual mobility spell. I mean she has one, but she usually doesnt use it since its a big part of her burst. > Note that we are not really talking about the death ball fights, where everybody get's one shot, but rather a gank situation in which she can get her 1.5 seconds (which is of course horribly delayed burst) off. Which is far more likely that it will hit the closest target which are, minions.
Q range is 800, reactivation is around 500. If she ganks either on the right moment or under the right angle you won't have a place to escape to, let alone prevent her somehow from getting close. Point being the absurd damage coming from a single basic ability without much cost. 135% ap ratio is insanely high let alone 195%. sigh... her Q prioritizes champions over minions.
Zerenza (NA)
: A good strategy for stopping Evelynn is to simply run away from her into minions or group around a teamate, if she misses the initial Skillshot Q then her Q will auto target the nearest enemy, so she targets minions then the only thing she can get her W to proc with is a legit auto attack range E. This is usually the best way especially in Mid-Late game, lane phase you just have to play your Control wards properly, control warding a bush sounds like a good idea but honestly it's not, half the time when i play her i just walk through the lane instead. I do think her damage is high but compared to other Assassins you have ample opportunity to escape, fed Evelynn is scary though but grouping usually fix's that. The meta really favor's her as well, i imagine that this next comming patch is gonna see her Winrate go down quite a bit, she hasn't received any buffs at all, on release she was weak and the meta we're in a hugely damage focused patch. Her winrate has fluctuated from 48-54% since her release with no changes to her at all, she's one of those champions that's easy to shut down early too making her one of those champions where the meta has to favor her to make her OP. She's also Sleeper OP since most people don't even know how to play her, she has no Dashes, No blinks, No Easy Engage for ganks, even after 6 you usually have to get behind the enemy first before initiating a gank. Can't duel at all so she losses to invades from half the other meta jungler's. I dont' think she's as broken as Yasuo or Zoe by a long shot, but definitely the same amount of annoyance.
Hold up: > A good strategy for stopping Evelynn is to simply run away from her into minions or group around a teamate, if she misses the initial Skillshot Q then her Q will auto target the nearest enemy, so she targets minions then the only thing she can get her W to proc with is a legit auto attack range E. wrong her Q will auto target champions over minions so standing in a minion wave does not help > she has **no Dashes**, wrong >No blinks, wrong >No Easy Engage arguable
: Do you know how her q works? It prioritizes the marked target. If you miss the mark, it will prioritize the closest target. Also in order for her q to deal that much dmg she has to unload it. And as you yourself said, it takes 1.5 sec to unload your full q. Nowadays, when other assassins can assassinate in less than a second, hers is rather balanced. And dont compare her q with annie's or veigar's ulti dmg wise. Annie's has a big radius and tibbers deals persistent dmg around him (which can amount to lots of dmg) and veigar's is an execute that is point and click (cant miss) and is just like annie's near instant. No need to wait 1.5 to deal full dmg.
Closest target... is in most situations the person with the charm on. (and even if there is someone closer it passes trough and can still hit) 1.5 seconds is still quite quick. Only doing 1 spike and 2 other ability or basic attack hits still deals 240 + **135**% + (45 +30%) per Q hit Note that we are not really talking about the death ball fights, where everybody get's one shot, but rather a gank situation in which she can get her 1.5 seconds (which is of course horribly delayed burst) off.
: Everyone complains about Yasuo and Zoe, but Evelynn has been flying under the radar (no pun intended). She is freakin busted... Her damage is insane and her counterplay? "Dodge the charm" yea i've tried that and she walks up and insta kills me anyways with only 1 item. Her Regen while in Stealth is just disgusting, allows her to leave a fight with 1 hp and come back with half hp and insta kill someone.
There is no way to "dodge" her charm. Even if she misses her Q, she still gets 3 free uses that she can use to proc the charm with. By the way, have you seen the numbers on that ability (Q)!? on max rank: 330 base + 195% AP... **195**! This is ultimate level of damage, and is simply placed on a Q and unloaded within 1.5 seconds or so? (8 sec cd, very low mana cost, almost guaranteed hit) Compare this with Annie's R: 400 + 65% AP or Veigar R: 325 + 75% AP to 650 + 150% AP
: The dust has settled for the Aatrox rework. Here are my thoughts as an Aatrox main.
A well thought out post, have an upvote! You mention old Aatrox being stat check and feast or famine. Stat check originates from a kit which can't be responded with and/or to. Old Aatrox could not really respond to opponents with his kit, but opponents certainly could to his, Q, E and to a lesser degree his passive and ult. But most of his power came from his basic attacks... which can't really be responded to. New Aatrox still does not have a real way to respond to his opponents from what I see, but opponents can more strongly react to his abilities. Since you have some experience on new Aatrox, can you tell me if he is indeed less feast or famine or stat checky? Are there any other downsides or upsides compared to old Aatrox? Are there new problematic gameplay aspects introduced? Perhaps too snowbally or not? Too well rounded/versatile?
: Damage isn't the issue. The issue is that everyone BUILDS damage, and Riot reinforced that when they reworked GA, Abyssal Scepter, and Banshee's Veil(and to an extent Athene's). We used to build 80 Armor/MR, with a possibly additional 50 MR from Abyssal Scepter on mid laners. What did they do? Made one a pure tank item(because there are so few AP mid laners that have enough range for the radius of the thing), and reduced the defenses while giving more damage on the other two. Even ADCs had 80 Armor/MR from old GA.
Not only that, but if you get one-shot (or killed quick enough) trough your 1 or 2 defensive items, the incentive to building those defensive items becomes lower. You build more damage in order to do more in those few precious seconds you have. which leads to more more damage... less resists ect. Bumping tanks back into the equation might lower damage a bit and nudge the trend backwards, but I am sceptical of that and fear the ones most affected are the bruisers. Resistance items are still not strong enough and the resistance items build are the ones which delay burst: Steraks, GA, Zhonya's, primarily for their unique passive, not for their stats
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Rouwhorst

Level 66 (EUW)
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