{{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}}

yeah it work, but this board have bad theorycrafting.

Its not an abuse.

His kit work with {{item:3078}} . {{item:3147}} is viable... but the item is meh since the nerf.

Depending of your pick you can't run ignite against him... And taking ignite top is close of trolling... mainly with the reduce of death timer

I mean... they're aren't mecanicaly hard to play. I think they should never be so popular (they're to popular atm if u ask me), but they should be viable in pro (depending of the comp).

Its not op... but i think this Keystone sucks. As assassins/divers your forced to pick it.

Why don't u (or any other moderator) create topic for Aatrox ??? its same at each new release.

Shame on, face checking a bush... without taking Yi spells/skills in account. Yeah, Yi is a stupid champ, and need to be reworked. Conqueror have nothing to do with what's he did on your first video. you played the move badly, thats all.

Assassins aren't even meta. They're viable, nothing more. > when botlane is the strongest role you can pick any old shit you want in any other lane cause the better botlane wins. WTF is this BS ??? Botlane isn't a classe, how can you compare assassins to a position ???

"I don't know how his kit work so ill ban him" Thats said, with riot sh*tty mission (play him), im very glad my mates will ban him in ranked.

{{champion:44}}

Riot isn't to make it unviable

i mean... unless this board, who care about 3v3 ???

> [{quoted}](name=nelogis,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pwdrPqRu,comment-id=000400020000,timestamp=2018-06-26T19:44:01.676+0000) > > That is pretty much any ADC plus a lot of Bruisers/Fighters, Azir and Kayle. What make you think i disagree with this ?? > Dealing damage via auto attacks is one of the oldest playstyles in this game. How come it has 0 counterplay out of nowhere? > > As long as they don't deal absurd amount of damage through the whole game then it is balanced. Its not, and most of whats you listed deal absurb damages. Are you seriously talking about Mundo ?? This sh*t is so broken atm and unless you outstat him with an Aatrox (statcheck too) its really hard to manage him alone. > You might argue that Tryn deals too much damage in all phases of the game and that is why he is hard to deal with but saying that since you can't dodge his auto attacks that he has 0 counterplay is wrong. Its not wrong, its just true. Just look at Yasuo you can avoid most of his damages (trust and tornado), look at Camille you can avoid her E and W, and even her Q have a timer. > Irelia and Camille break design philosophies left and right but who gives a shit you can dodge their stun loul eggs dii. > > Tell me what is teir class? > > A diver? No absolutely not they can engage AND disengage a fight whenever they want. If you don't understand how work this game its not my fault. They belong to diver class. Their disengage is their engage. And in Irelia case she go in... and she has no mobility to escape herself unless they're minions in favorable position. > A Juggernaut? No absolutely not see that mobility? > Lets just give Darius 2 dashes but make his ult a skillshot.... is that how we want to continue or what? His ult is conditionnal... so its okay. > They can be compared to Olaf having 2 Malphite ults that just slow instead of knock up to engage and disengage right after, that is what they are. no, you can't. And Olaf is a Diver too btw. > I had an easier time dealing with old Irelia than with the new one even tho old Irelia was mostly point and click. Thats your issue. i can play around something with this new Irelia... i couldn't with old. You won the trade, she stun then win... she won... so she draged you on the wall wave.... some shit like this. Current irelia is healthy... when balanced she's overtuned atm. > And Zoe is a playstyle that got removed from the game for a specific reason... but you can dodge her spells loul eggs dii so it's ok right? The issue with Zoe come from balance team, if they stop playing with their d.... Having OS potentiel every 3 sec is an issue can be solve easly with number. > > Why aren't we bringing back old Nidalee then? too old... can't talk about it. > > While we are at it let's give LB / Talon / Kassadin their silence back because who needs fun right? > B... b... but it's balanced dude y u complainin look at the 50% winrate it's super balanced dude!! > > We removed those shitty mechanics and playstyles for a reason! > It is not fun to play against and nobody gives a flying fuck if it is balanced or not. Its not about fun, its about fairness. When trynda right click you and then lucky enough to crit... its all but fair. I don't miss old Talon. LB still stupid, Kassadin need an update. Only Talon is fair... when not op (he's atm). > It took years to build up different class archetypes, it took years to introduce weaknesses and strengths into every kit, it took years to give every champion a clear powercurve relative to game time. > i agree. > And you are telling me it's ok to throw everything out of the window because "their spells can be avoided"? > hum... most of Irelia and Camille kit are OK, all the kit of Zoe is OK IMO. i would change Camille ult point and clic tho, and change Zoe number. with so much utility she dosn't need so much nuke. > Edit: Sorry for what I said. > I ranted and you for no good reason I'm just so frustrated with the game lately and you're statement kind of brought everything up. > > Sorry again.... Its okay, this game is so frustrating

Its not dota.

>I'm only 4 months into League, & already understand people's complaints... You don't. To begin many complaints is based on poor games game understanding of very low elo. The best thing for you is to not look at this boards and focus on your gameplay. > little to no counter-play to some characters, its mainly true for old champs, and they rework a lot recently to address this. >ADC's receiving a punishment that was too harsh it wasn't too harsh... in pro scene the best adc world still play some Ashe or even Vayne. And in Solo Q, you have more chance to lose with non adc. Adc role was too strong, adc players aren't used to be on same ground as other. >jungle changes didn't work for the best changes closly nothing... Bad junglers still bad, good jungler still good. But the role is more balanced if you compare it to other. >Rift herald hits towers too hard no... its totaly legit.... just don't let them take x towers with >domination / assassin classes running wild one-shotting everything Domination tree sucks... just saying

>I'm not saying Tryn is peak performance of a fun and interactive champion but you are saying it like he is an unstoppable force with 0 counterplay. I mean... they're really no counterplay. U can't outplay his aa aka his main damages. >I would rather fight him over Irelia / Camille / Zoe any day of the week. yeah, you. At least you can avoid most of their spells (minus Camille R). Unless Zoe, Irelia & Camille are fair... duel wise.

They don't wanna kill this as an option... they just don't wanna make this the strongest strat. Looking at LCK... they don't only use this strat.

i mean... he's right. Its closly same (but you take lane & jungle ressource).

>Please don't take this as a "buff tank damage" thread. They still deal shit on damage... don't buff them until you decide what's a tank should be.

You're biased cause its your main. Bet legit most of her hitboxes is deceiving not only her Q.

{{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}} {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}}

i mean... even before jungle change. Funneling strat was already strong... despite being played at top most of time (Yi/Aatrox + Kayle/taric)

Should do this for many champs if you ask me (lux, thresh....)

Why do u care ?? you don't even play Aatrox... nor play top.

>This is the issue with the rework, instead of being an Auto Attacking Duelist/Diver that could sustain himself or deal more damage, he is now a Bruiser that relies on casting his abilities more than using AA's. He is being mostly compared to Riven as a clunkier version of her. The only issue is the shift from Diver to Juggernaut (gameplay wise). I can totaly understand why riot didn't make him aa reliant (aa = stat check). By the way, playing a champion 5 times per seasons... don't know if you can call yourself an aatrox mains. Whats the most f*cked is his voice and visual (on skins mainly) IMO.

>The part about laning and positioning are completely irrelevant by the way because I never had to deal with him throughout the laning phase (mostly because Talon does not spend practicaly any time in lane at all as you should know if you play him) and because there was nothing wrong with my positioning, unless you can so kindly clarify. look both video pls, how can you say nothing was wrong in your positionning ??? Just the fact you die is a proof you were misposing. Thats said, on the first video you go in bush closer of their side despite : - not having any vision on their jungle - no vision on sup and top - having your bot pushed like this (mean ennemy team have decision lead) - you have no flash bad positionning and bad pathing, you tried to escape yourself by their jungle or worse tried to run on Ez with no intel on his team. On second video you kill syndra/darius with your team, but you and your team go so far with no vision in tribush. You can't play like they're no Wukong in the game. >Talon cannot 100-0 someone without landing his full rotation unless you are actually ahead of them and they have no armor. , Talon needs to get 3 stacks of his passive on you then AA to proc his passive for a 3 second bleed, if he has no R he needs to land both parts of his W for the passive stacks which is dodgeable Just this, you're forced to precise before him having his R available. When he get his lv6, the combo is so fast ennemy usualy won't react. Wukong won't 100-0% someone without his ult unless far ahead... like talon. >Now, lets prove you wrong on the Talon thing by going with a hypothetical scenario of a two item Talon Vs a two Item wukong at the same level. need to take in account if they faced each other. Cause Talon is stronger during lane and would take advantage of this (easy poke, push advantage) so a good Talon would have a lead. And if they don't lane against each other, a Talon would be stupid to not take Wukong by surprise. >What options does the Talon have? in a direct face to face confrontation Talon cannot afford to engage, why? unless in lane, cause he'll be able to poke Wukong. direct face to face ??? Only a stupid Talon would go for a face to face. >What options does the Talon have? in a direct face to face confrontation Talon cannot afford to engage, why? because of two reasons first Wukong can simply use his W once the Talon engages to have him waste his spells, in such a scenario and assuming the Talon went for the flower combo for the insta pop, the result is that he lost his R and wukong lost just his W, and second Wukong's R can stop Talon's Q denying him a stack of his passive and the AA he needs to proc it duje to hard Cc'ing him which will more often than not result in a dead Talon. So clearely, wukong is at an advantage if the Talon starts the engage. No, if Talon use his W and wukong took both part he's forced to use his decoy before Talon use his Q, if Wukong do this after Q of talon, he'll get marked by Talon passive (last 6sec > 1,5 sec invisibility). Then Wukong will be forced to use his R to stop next Q or ult of Talon... but his hp will be to low to battle Talon. Talon has initiative cause his spells range > Wukong range. >Meanwhile what options does the wukong have? in a direct face to face confrontation the wukong can simply 100-0 the Talon without too much worries because his entire burst takes less than a second to proc with point and click E + Q empowerd AA and if we assume that the Talon somehow survives the initial burst and uses his R invisibility to try and escape the Wukong can simply press R and rotate in place which will still kill the Talon who is invisible but not untargetable and who is sure to be at the very center of the rings the moment he R. Not to mention that the wukong can afford to dash towards the Talon to fake an engage then W away after baiting some key spells or R. if you talk about the moment where both can OS any squishies, ofc. Wukong E > Q > R will OS TAlon. But Talon would be if he won't F or R during E travel time of Wukong. If you do Wukong won't be able to use his Q (cause Wukong will lose the track before reaching range to use Q) >So clearely Wukong here has the natural advantage because not only does his kit offer less counter play, but also because it is so much faster than Talon and smoother thanks to the knockup. ofc it offer less counterplay. But with Talon kit and wukong weaknesses, this matchup is easly winnable and in other situation than duel he's easly manageable cause his kit is binary af. >Yes, absolutely, because we all know that map control and "micro" are relevant when you get 100-0 in less than a second, and we all know that map awarness is the issue when you still get 100-0 in 0.8 the instant the wukong flashed on you even though you knew he was there and tried to get away. This is just pathetic. it definitly is, why do you think pro don't play him ??? or he's not popular at high elo ??? >Shaco's burst only becomes and issue if he gets far ahead or if you have no armor, otherwise he cannot insta pop you with no counter play and you will still have roughly 10-20% hp and sometime to react. you have more time to respond to Wukong due to his E than aa of Shaco followed by tiamat > E. > With Wukong, it doesnt even matter that you can see him coming because he can still insta pop you in under a second even if you know he is there the moment he gets within range of you. mean.... you don't wanna improve your gameplay and prefer say "they're nothing to do against, this champs is busted). >TLDR: Learn to take criticism and stop being so emotional just because someone complaing about your main. Im not emotional. The champ is garbage, and thats why i ask for a rework (posted a message on Wukong subreddit today if you don't believe me). same why Best Wukong Euw ask same since age. >Lets call things by their names, a braindead champ is a braindead champ, no counter play is no counter play. ???? He's braindead, yeah they're no counterplay to E > Q > R when he's on you. i mean... i say this since first post. But Wukong is easly manageable, thats why i had no issue against Wukong jng when i played Varus. Cause Wukong have no possibilties. >There is nothing offenseive about that so drop the holier than thou attitude and the petty insults. ignoring valid arguments in favor of "lol low elo" doesnt give you any more credibility and If anything, that just makes you seem immature. They're nothing offensive in "low elo issue" cause its is. You complain about Wukong cause you understand the game as most of your average league. And you're triggered, cause you have pride/ego in you elo.

{{item:3814}} is garbage

> [{quoted}](name=HaIlMonitor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pdIgmrts,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-06-16T00:08:06.491+0000) > > What are you talking about? He has been a meta champ, all season long with a strong winrate. At first, was thinking you talked about Aatrox.

> [{quoted}](name=AceGeo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pdIgmrts,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2018-06-16T00:14:30.361+0000) > > He had a 55% winrate in plat and above for two patches **recently**.

>Be it marksmen or something else (with the exception of few very overpowered pick) it does not feel like you're playing a carry at all. Because literally everyone, the 10 players in the game feel like transporting an atomic bomb. Everyone asked for this... Tanks b*tch for having damages and duel everyone, Mages wan't to OS squishy with one rotations spells (regardless how's hard its to land his spells {{champion:63}} )... >is it fun watching jizuke getting bullied as talon by lulu in lcs? Definitly not... having already been in similare situation, it infuriate me. Mainly when u have a timer on your head, saying you'll get outscaled by this sh*t, and become irrevelant contrary to Lulu. >> this meta right now is a 5 carry meta, everyone deals a lot of damage, why should I be scarred of {{champion:497}} {{champion:40}} when i'm 40% health Cause riot think having shit ton mobilities and CC isn't enough. Like Rakan wasn't strong enough when he was just a CC bot (with great mobility). >since when midlane is a bitch lane? why are they playing braum mid? why is midlaner picking an utility champion and giving their farm to their team AND STILL BEING AS RELEVANT AS THE OTHER LANER? > but the most question is why is everyone ok with this? don't know, i saw many toplaners complains about this in the past when it wasn't so popular (Yi Taric, Aatrox Taric...). But now... nothing. Was planned to rework enchanter this year but...

for your first post. i agree more or less Yi isn't so strong... at least outside very low elo. On his own, and i would nerf Taric first (this sh*t is the true BS). Yi need rework (same for his pupil), can totaly understand why he seems so unfair.

whose saying Veigar ult is healthy/fair ? {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}}

>To be fair, Trinity bruisers like Irelia and Camille feel like they need a nerf anyway So nerf them

>There is a reason Yi has a shitty win rate even with being a simple champion. And that reason is he is too predictable. True... when he's on his own.

Wukong dosn't counter his masta.... at some time you can't face this BS.

Her R is unhealthy too (as all point and clic hard cc).

could be a good skin tbh

And if they can bring back his Halo during ult (on Justicar)

i think like his passive isn't the only issue.

>I'd also say that Wu'Kong, Talon, Udyr and Sol are problems but they aren't played enough for me to be sure. Its WUKONG. But Wukong kit is outdated, and need a rework. Udyr too. Talon and Asol are OP and deserve a nerf, you're right (i main Wukong & Talon not biased).

>Our apologies to those of you who were looking forward to those, would expect their removal to be pretty frustrating for some players, especially if you play fighters who aren't among the stronger ones right now, or who don't have a broad enough range of itemization. Building up expectations around content like this going out, only for it to then be pulled away, is something we try pretty hard to avoid. In this case, despite the pain that creates, we felt we needed to pull them out though. Was same with Divers class rework being canceled... don't worry we're used to this. Is they're anyplan to make lane more fair against range like {{champion:150}} {{champion:133}} {{champion:85}} {{champion:236}} when you play a melee ??

can happen once in a while... But its not what prevent you to climb. And after 200 games if you're still silvers, it means you aren't so good, and you should focus on your own gameplay. And if you're low silver don't let your pride blind you, i started ranked i was already better than silvers... i wasn't so strong, and they're plenty better players than me. Even new players can be better than silvers... and better than bronze. Not disagreeing with the matchmaking of riot being sh*tty tho.

>What do I have to do to win when I've 2 or more feeders on my team? Depend on your pick and roles... seeing your avatar seems like you're a toplaner. Start by winning/crushing you're lane and go bully the jungler. If Jungle, find the weak point of ennemy team (they're always someone overextending every x sec) camp him, and tilt him. Play around the winning/even lane. As jungler... if you only buy one {{item:2055}} you troll yourself and your team Play with the ones not feeding. If all but you feed... just go next. You can't win all.

if you're in theses tier you're all but good.

"You" asked for a revert, Rengar's back {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}}

Depend on elo. In low elo they'll hit him anyway. in high elo they'll see the difference.

>FWIW I'm pretty sure its safe to say that we did talk with quite a few Aatrox mains about the rework. So how did you come with his new voice lines ??? I won't talk about kit, cause its good. But i remember most Aatrox play spamming their fears about Aatrox not staying a calm bloothirster.

More like you were bad than he played good. To be fooled by his press S... only means you aren't used to his kit. Wukong's more reliant on his ennemies being bad. This champs need an update.