Riot Jag (NA)
: What Do I Build On Kai’Sa?
One point of AP is worth 21.75 gold. One point of AD is worth 35 gold. 35/21.75 = ~1.61 The scaling on Q is 40% AD 30% AP. --- 1 \* 0.4 = 0.4 < 1.61 \* 0.3 = 0.483 Q scales harder with AP than with AD. W scalings are 1.5% AD 65% AP. ---- 1 \* 1.5 = 1.5 > 1.61 \* 0.65 = ~1.05 Q scales harder with AD than with AP. ----------------------------------------------------- Your numbers are off. In addition, E scales far harder with hurricane. Shiv is second worst zeal item on her imo. I believe that the numbers Kai'Sa currently has result in your suggested builds and Kai'Sa's recommended items to be inefficient and generally a poor choice.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 16
Plant thoughts: * I really like the timing for blast cone behind blue buff, I think that's perfect. * I think the timing on the vision cones is off - particularly in early game I think they're very disruptive. Wish they would be a bit rarer early. * I think honeyfruit could use some modifications. I'd like it to open up some junglers a bit more, create some more interesting paths revolving around it, but I wouldn't want to disrupt early level 3 fights when top and mid both come into top side river for a level 3 3v3. * I'd like it if the blast cone on the way to red had the option of spawning closer to the midlane inner turret, I think it'd open up more interesting conflict around there. * I'd really like for some way to stop a plant from growing/eat plants without actually using them. * Vision plants are extremely distruptive and I hate them.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: September 1
I would actually love having small-large cycles in patches. During the 3 week patch cycle it felt like the meta had a lot more time to "settle". Often with the two week patch cycles you've just gotten used to the new patch, then the next patch is hitting within 5 days. Of course, this doesn't really hold true right now because of worlds. Around this time all the patches feel identical and there aren't really any major changes, which for us players really sucks when stuff like ardent censor is being a huge pain. I don't think this is the right time to really be asking this question, some people might be opposed to it because of their recent memory. I would definitely go for it though, I'd love such an approach.
Meddler (NA)
: We'll likely take another pass at Ardent Censer soon. We decided not to hit it very hard in 7.18 given the supports that use it are already less represented in pro play than tankier types and we didn't want to create a further loss of diversity there. That's a tough call, given we're therefore trading off viewer experience for pro and state of balance for regular games on 7.18. We'll usually lean much harder on what's needed for regular play, the Worlds patch and the patch or two before it are the time of the year though where pro balance gets weighted quite a bit heavier.
Censor currently counts as self-healing for the case of ARAM, which results in that item being far more busted than it should be on that map. Could you perhaps consider changing it to count as allied healing instead?
gregab (NA)
: Runes Corner: Guardian Soul
The whole marking system seems overly complex and confusing. I don't like it. I feel like you've completely dropped the ball on what seems to be the most obvious solution to me: **Have the shield trigger on an autoattack command on an ally.** Movement commands are done a ton because of the way direct input in league works. Autoattack commands are done far less and usually with purpose, especially for champions with lower AS values such as those who want to use this keystone.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 11
I've always been confused why Vayne hasn't been pushed to become "the splitpushing ADC", given that her skillset and strengths and weaknesses seem perfectly suited for that role. Has the team ever tried that, and what are their thoughts on it?
Wrekzzz (NA)
: Runes Corner: Stormlord's Mandate and Spellslinger's Surge
Which tree would these runes belong in? The one currently named Domination, or a different one?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 28
Hey Meddler, about the Syndra nerfs. Have you ever tried making her ult function like Caitlyn's as in it's targetable but blockable? Personally I feel that her ult simply feels like it lacks clear counterplay moreso than anything else. Even with damage nerfs to it it'll probably still be very frustrating to deal with, and you'll forever get complaints until there's an obvious source of counterplay to it.
: I'm on mobile (out of office this week), so please don't take the brevity/choppiness/typos of this response as me trying to overly simplify or gloss over any of the issues here. As some of you may already know, I did the gameplay design on Rengar's assassin update, so this is indeed an important issue to me. I don't respond to many Rengar threads (because many seem to be trying to say the same things and it tends to feel like a dead horse is being beaten), but I do try and read all of them here and on places like rengarmains regardless. That said, the effort put in here is, at the very least, admirable and collaborative, so it seems like a decent place to speak up. Rengar is far from perfect in his current state. I'll be the first to admit that. I do remember feeling more nervous (than other updates I've been a part of) than usual prior to his release, because it felt like we took some pretty drastic steps to try to accomplish difficult gameplay goals. Some of these worked out well. Others did not. Outside any individual item, to me, the single biggest shortcoming of the update is that he feels too different too play to really feel like the same champion, which I suppose tends to feel quite bad as some kind of confirmation of my pre-release nerves. The experience has been valuable to me as we hone in on the ingredients of a great update and the risks we may feel comfortable taking, but that should be of little consolation to players that may be feeling betrayed by this update (or any other, really). I've read many ideas for what we could do or ought to have done for Rengar, and still, I'm not sure what would be best. It is easy to know what doesn't work. It can be difficult to know what will. In the spirit of thus thread, below will be my thoughts on Rengar's kit. Keep in mind that this isn't a commitment to any type of incoming change. P I do think the changes to Ferocity generation were a great improvement to Rengar's gameplay, and I believe that this bonetooth is an improvement over the previous one, even if its progression and rewards are not as good as they could be. I'm unsure about the leap elements of the passive that get don't complaints, as I tried to set the range/speed/frequency as high as I could without being unfair to opponents, and I think that some of the complaints about these things mostly come from no longer being able to do some of the same exact jumping behaviors. I agree thus feels bad if you've learned all of them, but I still think the changes made here were generally acceptable. Q If I were to do it again, I would take more of an approach of "keep Q the same at all costs." The spell is mostly good in isolation mechanically (could be a decent spell on a different kit), but just feels bland, rushed, and uninspired here, primarily if you were attached to the previous Q. This said, reverting to the previous Q would result in the kit being back in a state where all of its damage could be applied instantly, and we were trying to move away from that for his update (which, at a goals level, I still do think is correct). W I don't think this spell is perfect, but I stand by it being mechanically better than the previous version. Whether that's true or not, honestly neither version is amazing. It's possible this should have been a new spell entirely, or that it should have part of a more extensive effort to make all of Rengar's instant cast spells not just stackable in the same instant. There is something to be said for the familiarity and simplicity of the spell, I suppose. E Bola is mostly fine. I was shocked by how many players complained that they couldn't instant cast it during leap, but I do think it having a cast time at all times was the right call. R After the Ferocity changes, I think the gains made to R's play for opponents was a definitive step in the right direction for Rengar's kit. I think there some merit to the spell having TOO much counterplay for opponents in the approach and not enough once he's there, but the spell seems far, far better for the game than the previous version, and with some tweaks, could be really great. I also know people tend to complain about the "free" crit on it, but I think rewarding jumping to the right target is appropriate, and damage seems appropriate as well. Perhaps it's the word crit? Maybe it should just be some kind of bonus damage. I'm not entirely sure, but that seems tunable. Pattern I'm not really concerned about whether people think Rengar is an assassin, diver, bruiser, fighter, skirmisher, or whatever. There seems to be enough division there that satisfying a singe singular majority doesn't seem possible. Closing Despite tending to think we made mostly good calls and took mostly good risks with Rengar's update, I think it's pretty clear that the changes to Q primarily tend to overshadow these. In my opinion, Rengar would have been best served by keeping the mechanics of pre-rework Q at all costs, though the way to accomplish that and still hit game health and counterplay goals we aimed for are still unclear, and are unlikely as simple as some passionate players may make it out to be. I'm thankful that League is a constantly changing game where we may get to circle back and revisit changes like these in the future. Thanks for taking the time and effort to put this post together. I know that sometimes it may feel like we aren't listening or don't care when something like this posted and maybe there's no response from a Rioter, but I do think it's rare that we're just turning a blind eye to something players care about. I apologize that it sometimes feels otherwise, and that we (I personally, on this case) don't always make the right calls, but I am thankful for feedback like this that keeps us in touch with player sentiment and helps us to improve moving forward.
Short and sweet, I feel that most of your points are accurate but you're very wrong on the ult. The ult crit is just free damage. Though it's a reward for jumping on the right target, it doesn't really feel that much like a reward. It's not in the word crit, it's that giving him damage when he jumps on a marked target is unsatisfying. The reward for the mark should be something that makes his ult more reliable in a way that's not "have you tried adding MORE DAMAGE?". Other than that, it seems to me that most of the people are united in wanting a sort of assassin/diver mix. The way I'd interpret that is an escapeless assassin ala Nocturne, Akali; or as a damage heavy diver ala diana/panth/full AD J4. Haven't seen any replies that would want anything else, this seems like the absolute majority.
Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 23
I'm not really a fan of adding more OOC ms to ghostblade in favor of less AD. Ghostblade is all about strategic mobility during combat, not out of combat. Wouldn't more OOC ms make more sense on EoN, since it's the engaging item of the 3? Can't channel during combat, shield will pop against the first spell and is meant to aid the assassin in engaging with more freedom.
: Azir Gameplay Update: Goals and Directions
I would push for option 2. Not because of thematic reasons, but because I believe that option 1 limits Azir, makes him impossible to balance, and would be significantly less interesting. Option 2 Azir could fill a completely new role in the game, a true mage marksman. This is far more interesting than another version of cassio, since it would allow him to shake up the meta. This would be far better for the future of the game imo, and would lead to me considering picking him up as a non-azir player. Option 2 Azir would be significantly easier to balance due to a lower skill floor and skill cap, reducing the disparity between expert and alright azir players. If option 1 was taken, Azir would be relegated to needing to outplay in order to be effective, which I don't believe a champion should be limited to. Option 1 looks like a bandaid solution to me. It would improve Azir relative to now, but I don't think that Azir would be able to truly be in a balanced and good spot with option 1. Option 2 looks like it could be a true solution, even if it's significantly more work, I think picking the true solution would be healthier and better for azir and the game overall.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 8
Stormraiders is by far the most interesting keystone we have available. Whenever I use it (Quinn player) I have to think really carefully whether or not it's the right choice for this matchup, and I constantly have to plan ahead "Ok, I'll proc stormraiders here and use it to extend this trade/retreat/dodge this". That said, I think it's also somewhat too restrictive. I often run into issues procing it, a good amount of the damaging champions can't proc it, and another amount can't make use of the proc effectively. For Quinn, it's way too feast/famine, and I run into issues procing it very quickly, while on other champions I think it's proc'd too easily. I LOVE the effect and the CD, but I wish the proc requirement was a bit different. TLD has the second most votes because it's really nice and easy to use and very flexible. I personally think that TLD is too flexible, crowds out other choices, is too easy to proc on some champions (MF), and doesn't really get played around. It's strong without much thought, and I think a "braindead" option would be very helpful for a lot of people since LoL already has SO MUCH STUFF to keep track of that at lower levels it gets difficult. Fervor is a fun keystone because it can cause people to adjust their trading patterns, and supports different playstyles. I sort of wish it was a bit less "invisible" though, I just get additional damage from Fervor but it's not really visible and you don't really feel the impact that much. I also have an issue with this and caster champions - I often feel conflicted between delaying abilities for more AD, or using them upfront to get their CD off. Grasp is really interesting too, and I'm surprised it has so few votes. I think it promotes really interesting lane dynamics and trading patterns particularly between melee champions. Not too happy about its low effectiveness on ranged champions though, and I'm also not happy about some interactions between this and certain champions (GP with this was stupid). Not commenting on the rest, but I want to bring up some non-keystone effects that I think are really interesting and I often have to think about: Insight - 15% summoner CD is nothing to scoff at, and is really really useful in certain matchups which are incredibly skewed with flash. Not happy about this combined with ionian boots, I think that interaction is lackluster currently. From a tanky perspective, this is almost certainly too powerful, but from a damage dealers perspective the choice between this and the ferocity tree/cunning tree is really interesting. Greenfathers Gift - I think this is a fantastic keystone which promotes a lot of thought. Playing around bushes in top/jungle/bot with this can be super interesting. I merely wish that it was a bit more impact/easier to use, it's difficult to get effectiveness out of it with abilities, and the low impact it gives is usually not worth in my experience. I love the idea of this for the early game impact on lane dynamics/jungle brawls, and so the scaling %hp feels bad.
: Both aspects certainly have their merit. Although I'd argue that making the items more distinct would serve as a tool to lessen single-item snowballing - if, for example, Duskblade was more damage focused and Ghostblade was more mobility-focused, having only one of them would make an assassin good in 100-0 potential, but lacking in ability to start good fights (Duskblade) or being able to start favorable fights, but lacking raw 100-0 potential (Ghostblade). Besides, if you buffed Lethality, I'd wish that you'd take a look at Quinn to ascertain whether the stat should be as good as it is on her currently. Personal feeling is, no, Lethality should not be as good on her, as her 100-0 potential is not really fun to play against.
Speaking as a Quinn main, Quinn is best played as an assassin, and she can't function anywhere near as well with any other sort of build. This is a problem with her overall, and she needs to be worked on at some point in the future. That said, I would be very unhappy if they "olaf"d Quinn. They already changed her ult to make her assassinations less reliable, and due to how feast-famine she can be, her low playrate, and various other factors she's nowhere near as problematic as Olaf was, so I don't think adjusting her numbers to make her weaker with lethality should be done just because she's not fun to play against when ahead.
Meddler (NA)
: Hmm, not sure. The thing that makes me hesitate is that I've been covering the sort of stuff that could go into one of those in these posts generally. Can see some argument for collecting the bigger points together, less sure if it's worth the time versus working on other stuff though (whether other communication or game dev).
On the one hand, I think it would be helpful to have a sort of summary/broad overview post, since many players can't read every single one of these due to time constraints/don't notice them easily. On the other hand, I'd really like to see a state of the season post where you go about discussing the state and how it came to be and where you want to go with it in the future, sort of looking at the bigger picture. I think that's something that would be really interesting to read, and isn't really covered by these posts.
: What's wrong with Quinn that she's even on the list at all?
I personally don't agree that she's unhealthy to play against as a toplaner most of the time, though I will admit for a handful of matchups she is, and outside of laning phase she is as well. Where could I argue for Quinn in this case, when the time comes? The #1 concern players always have with VGUs is that their champion gets misinterpreted or the design ruins parts of the champion they find enjoyable, but I have no idea where we could argue that could really have an impact.
Meddler (NA)
: Yep. They're a useful, though not comprehensive of course, source of feedback.
As a mod of one of these subreddits, is there anything we could do to make our subreddits a better/more reliable source of feedback for you guys? What can we do to have greater impact on the changes and decisions made, and provide you guys with more useful information? What kind of things do we often overlook/cause you to completely ignore some things we're adamant/extremely passionate about?
: Quinn and the Definitely-not-Eagle Valor
Personally, as far as Valor's sound call goes, I somewhat agree but I feel that if they changed it in this way then people wouldn't be too happy about it. While eagle sounds would be more accurate, Valor's current sound is a lot more aggressive and feels better to hear as a player imo. I'd rather they change their minds about Valor's species to make him a hawk than move his voiceover to being less aggressive. I agree with Valor Bot that he should have his own unique voiceover made from a blend of bird calls, and I think that Valor making a variety of calls particularly when joking with Quinn would add a lot to his depth. That said, I think that at some point we need to stray away from factual accuracy and simply go with what *feels* good ingame. Much like how Vi without punches doesn't fit too well, I think a Valor with chatter would be off-putting. Next, yeah, Valor's size is a massive issue. I'm not going to say anything else about it, it's screwy and needs to be fixed. As far as warbird goes, I wouldn't mind too much what they do to them as long as Valor is significantly more present in her kit. I've always prioritised my own enjoyment of the character over the theme, so I would prefer them to focus on staying true to Quinn and Valor and trying to sharpen their current playstyle and identity, picking one and focusing on it, rather than shifting them more towards a falconer theme and going into a different direction entirely. If they manage to do both, then I'd be happy. **Obligated comment about r/QuinnMains and our Discord and why you aren't on it**
: >As an example, we’ll be putting a new Armor/MR item on the PBE that is statistically very inefficient, but doubles its Armor/MR when around enemy champions. This positions it as a great choice when you know you need to get in the middle of the enemy team regularly, but not so attractive if splitpushing is a core part of your strategy. Umm, if you are splitpushing an 1-2 people come to deal with you, aren't you by an enemy champ then?
It would probably function like Irelia's passive where the number of enemy champions around you influences how much armor/MR you have.
: Thoughts on Quinn when she is not over-tuned, like now on lethality? As a former Quinn main with hundreds of games on the champion, here is my thoughts on her. Tl;Dr There is no reason to pick Quinn when she cannot oneshot a target, as she offers little to the team overall and is less impactful then other picks. Why pick Quinn when I can split-push with a stronger dualist such as Tryndamere more effectively, and why pick Quinn over a tank. Quinn's rework was a failure. She sacrificed a unique, fun niche of being a marksmen who could become melee for a button that offers nothing in the way of combat stats, that is now purely used to rotate around the map. Yes, being the mobile marksmen was good in theory, but occupying that niche has ruined all depth to her kit. See a gapcloser you can interrupt? Vault. Q off cooldown? Throw it out. Enemies out of vision? Press W. Many of these abilities at this point can only be used reactively, when Quinn cannot oneshot her target. Most of her abilities hold no depth other then timing and manipulating targets at this point. The second big issue with Quinn is that there is no reason to pick her. Her damage in the top lane usually has less impact, especially in teamfights, then a tank would. Picking Quinn top or jungle requires your team to play around you, which in solo queue is impossible to expect. There are better dualists then Quinn, there are more valuable marksmen then Quinn, there are champions that can oneshot you easier and with less risk then Quinn, everything she can do can be done better by someone else. Picking Quinn in the top lane takes up a spot for a tank or bruiser. Picking Quinn mid is sub-optimal due to assasains and mages being better in most ways. Quinn jungle is sub-optimal due to not providing anything valuable pre-6 dispite the risk you take for playing it due to being squishier then other champions. Quinn as a marksmen is outclassed by champions with more impactful kits such as Ashe or Jhin. Her ult might work on a support, but I haven't and won't be trying it. Her lane bullying power is reduced by ninja tabi and how weak she is to being ganked. Her core problem is her strongest ability, vault. The ability has a huge risk to it in many cases, you vault off of a predictable path and distance, with no immunity to it. It lines Quinn up to get hit by any skill-shot in the game, and due to her lack of defensive stats, that usually means you are dead. The ability's cooldown is too long to give you a second chance. You don't often have enough movement speed when not in your ult to re-position before vaulting while the enemy is under the effects of your q. If you vault off of a champion in a teamfight, you usually dive in and get killed due to the nature of the ability. Her ult is fun when you can gain enough MS, but the fact that minions can slow you with their autos, and that minions can cancel your ult cast is really annoying. Early game, draining most of your mana, only to have a caster minion kill your cast feels really bad. In my opinion, lane minions should not effect her ult. I love Quinn, I don't want her to get stale and be ignored like she was last time. These opinions are my own, but are opinions I have formed over many games on her. I would appreciate thoughts! {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
Psst. r/QuinnMains on reddit, and we have a discord too. Idk if you're there already, but I don't recognise your username and we tend to have discussions about Quinn or reworks and stuff like that every now and then.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 3
Now that you've been able to obtain some good hard data on how strong Quinn, Talon, etc. are with Lethality being nerfed, what does the team think of their current strength? Have you decided that nerfs might still be necessary, or have you come to the conclusion that they're in a good spot now (again)?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: Feb 24
@Meddler In the QuinnMains Discord I suggested an alternative nerf to Quinn - R damage reduced to 50% total AD, but deals double damage to minions and monsters. Basically, just half her R damage vs champions, cuts ~70-150 damage from her all-in pattern (Especially the nasty moments when R->E->AA oneshots someone) but has little effect on any DPS styled builds or her power at early levels (before she can build any lethality) or her map presence. It primarily only hurts the lethality builds, and it reduces the frustration enemies can feel when playing against her with her R->E->AA combo. What are your thoughts on this? I'm really interested in why the team specifically chose increased mana and CD on E as her nerfs in testing, since most of us felt they would make Quinn less enjoyable to play (Due to less presence early and needing to be more careful and having a lot less freedom), while not really addressing the issue that most of us were seeing (R->E->AA is bullshit).
Meddler (NA)
: We'll be doing a pass on nerfs to Jayce, Talon, Rengar, Quinn, Varus once we've seen what impact the 7.4 changes (and Edge of Night hotfix) have on them. Our prediction is they'll still be too strong, hence we're testing nerfs, but it's possible we pull back on something if 7.4 hits them harder than expected.
Meddler, even if you do decide to nerf said champions, **do not** use the nerfs currently on the PBE. Do not change their cooldowns in that manner. Everyone I've spoken to agrees that *lethality* is the problem, not said champions. Some people prefer alternative playstyles to full lethality, such as DPS Quinn with crit, and your changes harm them too.
Lovelle (NA)
: I think Quinn fits the ranged assassin role pretty well, but she really needs her tags changed. It makes no sense that Jhin (or Teemo) is listed as a marksman/slayer, but Quinn isn't. Even without Tag Team, she still blows up squishies and snowballs just like any assassin does. Twitch has always been assassin-ish in my eyes. He just also happens to be decent at teamfighting, which eliminates half the risk that Quinn (or any real assassin) has to deal with past the laning phase. Most would disagree (top players in particular), but I feel giving back her %missing hp damage would help a lot in keeping her relevant when she's behind and/or the enemy team is snowballing. Without it, she becomes too item dependent to ensure kills, which can lead to situations where it's just not possible to recover unless the opposing team makes mistakes.
Quinn never had %missing hp damage. Her damage scaled with missing health, but it was flat damage - similar to Riven's ult. Would not have helped her stay relevant when behind at all, nor changed how item dependent she is.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Seasons,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=lKR0ehmM,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2016-12-07T00:41:39.397+0000) > > As a lot of other people have said this skin just doesn&#x27;t fit Quinn&#x27;s style. > If it were made a little more &quot;modest&quot; and more colours like heart seeker Varus, it&#x27;d go over fairly well. > And they messed up the hair again like they did Woadscout... Just do medium hair + bangs. > I think i&#x27;m not the only one who thought this was the last skin most Quinn players wanted (Rather have Project Quinn, PenQuinn, or Flight Attendant Quinn) > > I hope they take this thread&#x27;s feedback into account and fix it up a bit. > TL;DR Fix the lux-outift copy &amp; fix the hair, no bun pls. Flight attendant Quinn ? Oo
Pretttyyyy sure Seasons is the only one that has ever wanted Flight Attendant Quinn. There's a reason he mentions it every now and again on the discord >.> Most of us want Project, Dragon Tamer, or Ravenborn the most, though I've managed to get some people liking the idea of Secret Agent Quinn too (Quinn in a suit mmmmmmm)
Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: Gut reaction is Courage is out of line in terms of both shield strength and CD, possible we just adjust one though. Less sure on Fervor, does look like it's underperforming relative to Warlord's though. First step's probably to determine if it's too weak or Warlord's too strong as a result.
Shouldn't it be fairly obvious that Fervor is underperforming and was always going to underperform simply because this version of fervor is significantly weaker than old Fervor? * It takes longer to stack, so you deal less damage with it overall since in many trades you don't get to stack it fully. * The stacks last for 33% shorter, so the chance of you dropping stacks in fights/skirmishes/2 trades shortly after one another is vastly increased. * The damage was changed from on-hit to AD. While you say that this isn't supposed to alienate the old fervor users, it has. AD fervor is significantly worse on Ezreal and Lucian, two examples of the best old Fervor units for ADCs. For non-ADCs, you had people like Irelia, who also loses damage with new fervor. Regarding fervor and AD ability damage, it doesn't have much of an impact since abilities are usually best used at the start of the fight where fervor has practically no stacks. Regarding fervor and crit users like Caitlyn, warlords simply benefits them far more since warlords fills their lifesteal budget for a good period of time, allowing them to build crit without needing to invest in lifesteal. I do think warlords might be slightly overtuned, or not really overtuned but could use some changes as well. I think any direct number nerfs could kill it which would have massive changes on everything. I think it needs a nerf through functionality, primarily a change to the way it sustains vs minions as one of the biggest reasons why it's picked is for additional lane sustain, but if you nerf it further against minions then that reason will simply disappear entirily due to being too weak. High elo Kindred mains have been running thunderlords over fervor (see red_kind on r/Kindred). That should signify that it's not warlords which is a problem, but fervor simply being too weak to benefit the old users of fervor.
Mishli (NA)
: I dont' play quinn, so i can't see it from your perspective, but as someone who has been on the recieving end of a quinn roam, i'm actually glad the interaction is that way. reason being, you already have the highest potential mobility of anyone in the game, even over rammus, having to stop your ult means you can't instantly clear vision and continue your roam, you have to pay a bit for that pure mobility by either not getting the ward, or giving people time to run away. same issue for plants. quinn is already incredibly oppressive in top lane if she even gets 1 gank, she can simply shove, b and come back before her opponent can finish going b. i really don't want to see her able to leave lane, heal off honeysuckle and be back before i can even clear one wave
Honeysuckle can be obtained like that without needing Quinn's ult anyway. Quinn's ult means less with preseason since all of the assassin items have 20 flat out of combat movement speed, air dragon got buffed, the game has aurelion sol and taliyah among other champions and ghost has gotten more popular in mid lane. So many things give movespeed and allow for quick roams, and with the changes to Talon there's yet another contestant for extreme mobility. Between how unreliable some parts of her kit are and how much she already pays for her ultimate being the way it is, I would say Quinn already pays enough for her ultimate's mobility. Granted I am biased, and Quinn's winrate numbers are positive, but you also need to consider that the overall changes on PBE are a net nerf (imo) and that she's nearly only played by dedicated mains despite how enjoyable she is as a champion.
Meddler (NA)
: I read through that Reddit thread yesterday. It's got a lot of strong sentiment in it that's valuable feedback. It's pretty light on discussion from in game experience with plants though (few actual PBE testers commenting), so it’s not a complete picture. As with the other pre-season changes on the PBE plants are a work in progress. We’ve got some changes coming this week that should address a number of issues that have become apparent since the last set of changes (which occured just before PBE last week). Key details on those below. We’re also working on some backup plans for other possible issues that have been raised. For those sort of cases we want to have follow up plans ready in case they’re needed, but don’t want to make changes before things have been validated in game. Summary of those below too. The biggest concern about plants themselves we've seen expressed overall is that they're random and that randomness has no place in a competitive game. Can fully understand the concern there, given randomness can make for pretty miserable experiences in game at the expense of player skill. We don’t think randomness is automatically a bad thing in a competitive setting though. We see it as more a tool that, if used in the right way, can create good tests of skill and emergent play or, if used badly, can nullify skill and create a ‘that was bullshit’ feeling. Examples of what we feel falls into each of those two categories: . ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- . ** Controlled Randomness in LoL at present we think is good for the game: ** * Elemental Dragons Heavily telegraphed, rewards that support different strategies and counter them, system creates healthy game to game variety of experience. Equally available to both teams. * Kindred passive on enemy jungle camps Creates a series of risk/reward trade offs for the Kindred player that they’re free to engage with or not. Enemies can choose to try and counter or not. * Scuttle crab’s exact location You know roughly where Scuttle will be, and what the reward will be, but not the exact location it’ll be before getting there (assuming it’s up in the first place). Again, also equally available to both teams - it's a fair system, rather than one that biases in one direction or the other. * Draven axe landing location There's some randomness to where an axe could land forcing an adaptive responsive. Possible locations are from a limited pool and, when appropriate are effectively non random (e.g. when chasing) . ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- . ** Randomness in LoL we think is or was bad for the game: ** * Low % crit rates (higher % crit rates are also heavily debated, though a less clear argument) Small amounts of crit (runes in particular) have a small chance to skew a lane pretty strongly without any engaging gameplay. Crit’s much less problematic once champions have a moderate amount of it (becomes consistent ish), though even then there are arguments it should be removed. Avoiding getting into details of that since that’s a different topic and this is already a long post already. Should talk more about it sometime though, especially since it’s a subject we need a better consensus on internally too. Regarding crit runes, we’ll be removing the ability to start the game with crit when we do work on runes (hopefully sometime next year) * Old Phage Chance to slow on hit (mini, unreliable Frozen Mallet for anyone that didn’t play back then). Sometimes really lethal, sometimes completely ineffective. Did have some counterplay (e.g. only flash if the slow procs), overall though too much a case of randomness deciding situations rather than creating decisions. . ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- . ** Next iteration base off feedback from PBE testers and internal playtesting: ** * Fewer Blast Cone locations We’ve been testing a pretty wide variety of Blast Cone locations recently, especially compared to early iterations of plants which only had a few. Conclusion there’s that some of those locations are good fits, others feel more abusive than interesting though and the large number of possible spawn points makes it hard to predict likely Blast Cone locations resulting in a more random than intended result. * Limit of 2 Blast Cones per quadrant When it happens 3 Blast Cones in a single jungle quadrant has been resulting in too much Blast Cone chaining, given the proximity between them that creates. Chained Blast Cones are much harder to respond to and the second use seems to be less deliberate by the user as well. * Seedling time to 60s (from 30s) Increasing telegraph time on upcoming plants to improve ability to plan around their presence. * Reduced overall plant spawn rates Plant frequency has been too high in the version of the system currently on PBE, resulting in more frequent interactions than intended and therefore a greater overall impact on the game than desired. We’ll be reducing frequency of plant spawn a bit as a result. * Visual Polish On the art side there’s also still some stuff yet to come (minimap icons that are clear but less dominant, icons for individual plants when clicked on, etc) . ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- . ** Other concerns we're tracking and preparing follow up changes if needed: ** * Ranged versus melee discrepancy We haven’t seen it demonstrated yet, but it’s definitely possible plants will be too advantageous for ranged champs over melee. Fallback if needed’s to make them operate like Thresh lantern where it’s proximity to plant the allows interaction, not basic attack. * Randomness deciding outcomes, We want randomness to create a range of situations where player decisions and execution can then decide the outcome. If randomness is instead deciding situations however we’ll then want to add additional telegraphing, both to spawn times and locations until players are able to recall possible plant locations and play around the possibility of them being up in an informed manner. * Plant interactions still too frequent Upcoming changes might still leave plants too influential to the game and place too high an interaction burdern on players, junglers especially. Response there would be to continue to adjust spawn rate, maximum number possible per quadrant. Apologies for the wall of text, lot to cover. I’ve to run off to a thing now, I’ll be back later though to post a bit more.
Hi. I'm a PBE Quinn player. I responded to Xypherous earlier today. My biggest complaint with plants is that rightclicking them throws me out of my ultimate. This completely removes most interactivity I have with the plants, only using the blast cones occasionally when in combat. Please change the trigger from an autoattack to something else, or allow us to autoattack plants and wards out of our ult, like how mobi boots interact with wards. (The ward issue is also seriously frustrating for us. We pay 100 mana and a 2 second channel time, only for duskblade vision to trigger (or on live raptor buff) and we choose between having to pay the price again or just leaving the ward to live, both of which are really really shitty)
: Hey Valor, appreciate you keeping me up on this. I have no good answer to why this has taken long. Because it was something of the 975 RP price tag I feel it's super wrong to not give that to the skin. (Lost sound file isn't a thing @.@) I think the phoenix one needs the sound but isn't the Woad skin SFX a different sound than base?
The woad skin sound sounds the same as default to me, but it sounds like there are two parts to the sound effect, one for the arrows and one for the owl, and the owl is different but the arrows are the same. At any rate, the woad scout sound differs vastly from pre-rework. While you're at it, would it be possible to restore these two missing sound effects as well? Quinn used to whistle to Valor at the start of her recall. This whistle is now gone. Quinn used to have an extra sound effect for Harrier. It was a distinct "chirp" sound that Valor used to make when marking a target, which seemingly disappeared sometime around the beginning of S5. To listen to it, skip to 0:05 in this video: Thanks for the help! Am super happy to hear that you'll look into it again.
: Clubs outage Oct 2016 -- November Update!
Thanks for letting us know what's going on! As "compensation" for the outage, do you think it'd be possible to up the club member limit to 100 while you're fiddling around with clubs?
Meddler (NA)
: Same thinking on Jayce, we'll assess him post Pre-Season, especially given a number of items he uses will probably be less appealing to him after the patch (Ghostblade especially is going to be less appealing to ADCs/ADC ish champs). In terms of skins we don't account for upcoming or recently released skins in the balance process.
Over at r/Quinnmains we tend to do a lot of mathematics behind different builds and theorycraft a lot. When pre-season hits, we plan to mathematically compare her damage and other stats/stuff from before pre-season with all the possibilities after preseason. If the end result turns out to be weaker, would that be enough for you guys to give her some form of buff without needing to see her performance stats? (Cos playrate pretty much always stays roughly the same and winrate shouldn't fluctuate by too much since we mostly all know what we're doing with her ingame)
: Auto Attack Lockin
Would it be possible to reduce it down to 1 frame? I spent a ridiculous amount of time perfecting my autoattacks on Quinn (when I have low ping that is). I'm very happy about the glitchiness fixed by this though, but I'd definitely prefer 1 frame over 2 frames. So that we can already start moving at frame 4 without it being canceled. EDIT: Nvm, 2 frames is fine. I was judging by the pictures.
: Ahhh, we're so glad that you like the skins! We've been busy at work with these skins for the last few months, and we're completely taken back by the overwhelmingly positive response! ^-^ I'll be sure to pass along the kind words to the team! Lemme know whatcha think when you get to play/see these ladies in action - would love to hear more of your feedback!
Hey Katey, I have one very specific bit of feedback for Star Guardian Jinx: I think in the splashart, her eyes appear out of character to me. Not out of character for Jinx herself, they're appropriately insane for Jinx herself, but out of character with the persona Star Guardian Jinx is supposed to have according to the teaser website. They're so on-edge and insane, whereas Star Guardian Jinx isn't actually insane, she's more on-edge and rebellious, but still determined. I think Jinx's eyes in the teaser image where all 5 are falling down to the planet work really well - they give me this mixture of hot-headedness along with determination. I think appropriate eyes for her splash should be a bit more "heh you're about to get blown up" along with "another one down" rather than "STARS GO BOOM EVERYWHERE" Prestigious LB's eyes are the closest I can find just by randomly searching around. Something that looks slightly on-edge while looking confident/dominant and at the same time a little playful or teasing or flirtatious. Obviously I haven't heard her voiceover yet so you're still better equipped to judge the accuracy of my critique, but that's the character impression I got from Jinx from the stuff we've been given so far, and it does not match up.
Dr Poro (EUW)
: and 50 champions going back to completely unplayable?
How about just making Snowball not reveal stealth or grant vision of brushes, or make champions targetable during the dash, or make the stealth reveal go away after the dash part?
Rioter Comments
: It'll likely be changed at preseason. May or may not be Melee Only - we're exploring larger changes that might not require us to make it melee only.
Quinn and Twitch are both marksman+assassin. As a Quinn player, I'd argue she's far more assassin than marksman - I definitely play her assassin-centric when allowed to do so and so do most of the other successful Quinn mains, that's the best way for us to win our games. We build duskblade as assassin Quinn so that we're able to assassinate. Losing duskblade would be a significant loss to Quinn and harm the most enjoyable and most successful playstyle that she uses. Twitch rarely builds duskblade, it's not really considered one of his core items. Draven isn't too powerful at the moment anyway, requiring a skilled player, and losing duskblade would harm him further. I would say that MF is in a really good spot at the moment as well. Jhin is the major outlier, and Jhin is overpowered anyway - he wasn't nerfed enough in the previous patches. Is the item being used only as originally intended? No. Is the way that it is being used harmful to the game? I would say no. Don't break what's not broken. Jhin is the problem, the rest are fine.
: > [{quoted}](name=TheHurricaneGamr,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=NZK9A5NP,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2016-09-09T00:27:54.246+0000) > > I completely agree with the Kog&#x27;maw changes, but also have mixed feelings about it. Having that 5.0 attack speed fantasy there was so fun to toy around with and was just so unique for the game. However, since soooooooo much power is getting removed from his W, where is that power going to come back? Some of it is actually going back on the W. He's likely also getting his passive attack speed per rank back on Q. If that's not enough, we'll of course be looking for buffs. Intention here is definitely **not** to 'dumpster' him or otherwise kill the champion; we're doing this because we are happy to support that version of the champion. > Also, may we see another champion or rework in the future with the doubled attack speed cap? Could be really interesting to see on {{champion:6}} , especially since I see him as a biomecha- long range artillery thing. I wouldn't completely rule it out, but any champion that's going to implement that again has some major challenges to deal with and it's pretty unlikely, at least anytime soon.
Minor feedback. As a marksman main, kiting around with kogmaw at 3.5 AS was a challenge, but it was doable. 4.5 and above was just straight up impossible, but 2.5-3.5 was a fun and difficult challenge. I think this increased numbers problem was just that the cap was too high - if you were to release a champion which could have twice as much CDR then we'd obviously have a major problem (URF), yet the intelligence mastery is fair and balanced and often used. Feel free to increase the AS cap on a future champion!
: > [{quoted}](name=jsgnextortex,realm=NA,application-id=2E4zVIwd,discussion-id=fbKhLOv7,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-08-16T14:10:35.563+0000) > > On certain resolutions, the client&amp;#039;s window is just too small for me, the font is hella small We thought we fixed this sort of thing, but in some screens the client is not scaling as we expected it. We are currently investigating. > ...a resize option... To clarify, resizing and scaling are different things. There are no plans to support resizing, i.e. modify the window ratio in any way. Scaling to the proper size for different screen resolutions is something that we know the client must do well.
Are there plans to support manual rescaling, so change the window size manually without changing the ratio?
: I don't sit on our balance team per se, but I do help to inform that team's strategies for how we think about League balance. We focus the majority of our balance efforts at the high Plat / low Diamond level of play. This is because below that level, individual player learning can have a much larger effect on their success rate than the typically small stat adjustments we make to champions patch to patch. (If you're Silver, your win rate with Ashe will probably go up if you play 10 more games with her by a lot more than it will go down from the Enchanted Crystal Arrow nerf). On the other hand, if we balanced for the Challenger / pro level, we'd be affecting only a tiny percentage of overall players, and at some point it's possible the upper tiers and lower tiers of League would feel like different games, much more different than they appear today. We do however look for outliers at all tiers of play. If a champ is too dominant among pros, we look for something we can do that ideally won't make that champ virtually unplayable in Silver. Likewise, there is nearly always a tier of Bronze-stomping champions that are more easily dealt with (frequently by crowd control) at higher elos. We try to make changes to these champs as well, without making them even less likely to get used in high elo or pro. Around this time of year, we do pay extra attention to the pro scene, because we want to make sure the viewing experience for play offs and Worlds is as good as we can make it without excessively disrupting pro training. Win rate is a major statistic that we consider when making balance adjustments, but keep in mind that we do look at win rates across many regions and across all tiers (even as I said if we focus on Plat / Diamond). We also consider experienced vs. new win rates. Some champions take literally hundreds of games before win rates really stabilize. That's not ideal, but it's something we do need to keep in mind until we can fix those problems. A few of you mentioned play rates. That's not a stat we focus on a ton, because there are a lot of reasons that players choose certain champions. Power (e.g. win rate) is definitely one of them, but so are things like aesthetics, thematic resonance, someone's experience playing that champ, how compelling they find the various abilities, individual agency, ability to play multiple roles, chance of getting banned, etc. etc. If there is a champ that is dropping in play rate simply because of a nerf we made a patch or two ago, that's definitely a red flag and something we try to fix. But we don't do the opposite, where we try to increase play rate simply by increasing power. That nearly always ends with frustration where players feel forced to play a champion they don't like, or we expose counterplay or other gameplay problems that had kept the champion intentionally underpowered (ideally in the short term) in the first place. We do gather and analyze a lot of data, but it's not the only factor in making decisions. We playtest the heck out of League internally. We read feedback, watch streams, watch pro games, draw on our own public games, and a variety of other factors to detect problems. It's never as simple as "I got beat by an Akali last night, so I'm going into the office to nerf her the next day." The balance team is also under a ton of scrutiny internally as well as externally. If we felt that they weren't operating with a strategy, or if they were just buffing or nerfing pet champions with no long-term goal in mind, or if they didn't have explicit goals when they made particular changes, they'd be challenged on that pretty quickly. Usually the problem from a player POV isn't whether or not Riot can detect a problem with a champion. Usually it's because we nerf or buff (from a particular player's point of view) the "wrong" champion, or we fail to take action on a balance problem, or the changes we make don't actually accomplish what we want. If we don't take action, there could be a few explanations. Maybe we think an upcoming change will fix the problem. Maybe the champ needs a larger update that doesn't fit in the current patch schedule. Maybe we just aren't sure yet how to fix a champion. That latter issue gets into my next point, which is that we get balance changes right a lot, but we certainly get them wrong as well. If it's a relatively straight-forward change, like realizing that a 10% drop in an AP ratio will probably lead to a few percentage drop in winrate, our hit rate on those changes is pretty good. But it obviously gets a lot more complicated than that. Maybe the champ is overly dominant in specific situations that don't come up all the time. Maybe it's one of those high skill floor and even higher skill ceiling champions that I referenced before, and the challenge is to make them easier to play for lower tiers, but even harder to play for higher tiers. Once we make a change, we do playtest it many times internally, but since we're on a two-week patch cadence, we aren't going to be able to playtest every change in isolation, and we'll rarely be able to get in more than a dozen or so games max on a particular change. Sometimes it's even less. That can't compare with the literal millions of games that will be played on a new patch when it goes live. Our strategy in that situation is just to be able to react when a change went too far or not far enough, which is a big reason why Riot decided to update League every two weeks in the first place. So that answer ended up being a lot longer than intended, but I did want to share our thoughts on how we approach this space. I don't really want to get into the topic of our current thoughts on any particular champion or change, but if you have general philosophical questions on how we look at the world of game balance, I'd be happy to follow up on them.
> Maybe it's one of those high skill floor and even higher skill ceiling champions that I referenced before, and the challenge is to make them easier to play for lower tiers, but even harder to play for higher tiers. Just wanted to tackle this one point. Is there any reason that you lot can't simply make them easier to play for lower tiers, and then reduce their overall power to a manageable state? An example that I could think of would be making Riven's Q cancelling automatic, and then balancing around her strength then (While keeping the rest of her cancels with E). Come to think of it, you have done it before such as with Alistar's W->Q combo. I'm just wondering why this strategy isn't the default go-to unless there's some other problem. I think there are a lot of champions that could benefit from it.
: Patch Chat with the Playtest Team: 6.17, the Pre-Worlds Patch
How do you think the ADCs ended up this patch with all the rebalancing? According to Jhin is still extremely strong at high elos, and the same goes for Ashe. I've played some of Ezreal and I really like the changes, he feels like he's in a really balanced spot now (Might use a minor additional lovetap but w/e). What does playtest think of Kalista, Lucian, Corki? Do you guys really think that Sivir needs more nerfs after the ones she's already gotten this patch? Will we see Kalista at worlds?
Ypherion (NA)
: We've talked about this kind of thing internally several times over the past couple years. Some of the discussions about what to use as replacement messages are among of my favorite memories at Riot (some of us are kind of terrible people...creative, but terrible). The main reason we haven't gotten to it, aside from having other stuff we thought was more urgent, is that it tends to create a bit of an arms race. Once people figure out what the filters are, they adapt their messages. GG3Z, ky$ or just come up with entirely new stuff like "GG stomp" or something, which then becomes GGST etc. etc. Then the filters need to be updated, then players adapt, repeat ad nauseum. There's also an interesting question around how players will perceive the replacement messages once the mapping from input to replacement is well known. I have no doubt that it will help to a decent degree, and I'll be interested to see how it works out. I love that other games are experimenting in this space more and more. It'll only speed up development on awesome ways to deal with this kind of behavior.
Wouldn't it be possible to add that onto the swear filter, and at the same time make the swear filter a bit prettier than just ****? That way most people who say GG EZ or the like will still see GG EZ so there's no reason for them to change anything. But for anyone who would be bothered by rude messages, turning on the swear filter would do more than just remove the words - it would change things that may have put them in a bad mood into things that may put them in a good mood or at least keep them neutral.
: I had no idea that Kal's win rate was so low. I don't play her that often, but find that I can probably get first blood in bot lane, just simply because the enemy adc doesn't realize how much dmg all those spears actually to do him. From there it's basically a face-roll. She's a lot like twitch except with a forever stacking E. So maybe they would have to buff twitch a little also?
Twitch is in a fine spot with an average of 51% winrate going up to 57% at 125 games played. Riot generally judges by 30 games played, where he is at 53%. IIRC they view 52-53% winrate at 30 games played to be balanced. Twitch and Kalista look similar if you look at their kits, but the way they play and their strengths and weaknesses are very different, so I don't think it's fair to compare them.
Reimυ (EUNE)
: Well let's say Darius gets execution indicator on his ult... That would make him way stronger.
Not really no. Whether Darius has an execute indicator or not doesn't matter to me at all, he's still just the same easily kiteable avoidable juggernaut. How I play against him wouldn't change in the slightest, nor would my perceived strength of him.
: She needs something changed, preferably the passive, since thematically it doesn't go with her at all, and its the source of most of the frustration with her. They change that they can give her 100% damage on auto attacks again, as well as some other stuff.
Her passive is the thing most people identify with Kalista - just like Kassadin's ult, it can't really be changed even in a rework. I don't think a full rework is necessary either in order to balance her. A soft rework, like Annie's midgame mage update or Corki's marksman update. Personally I'd target her W and remove the slow on her E. What I think of when I think of Kalista is hopping spear throwing gal with an ult that pulls her support. Her W wouldn't really be missed, yet is a lot of unnecessary additional power.
: As a dedicated kalista main I will tell you that this will break her in the META. I currently watch my opponents health bar in the top left of my screen and estimate when to rend. if there was an execute indicator it would make it far to easy to CS(Reset her mana) early game and that would make her too easy to farm with. If an execute indicator was added it would give me confidence to 1v5 with triple lifesteal and god knows that would be a bad idea. I disagree with an execute indicator. while it will make it easy for lower skilled players (with her) it would make her far too broken for those who can play her well. Kalista currently has a 46% winrate on people with 125 games experience - mostly dedicated mains. This is plat + games only. In Korea in diamond, she has a 48.5% winrate. In order for you to find ANYONE with a higher than 50% winrate on her on these past few patches, you'd have to go extremely far up the ladder, I'm talking challenger Korea or top 50 challenger EUW, or people in the pro scene. Making her easier to play wouldn't break her when she isn't broken for the people that play her close to perfection already. Comparatively she wouldn't be an absolute garbage pick anywhere below diamond anymore (NA gold has her at 41.5% winrate).
Rioter Comments
TyrionL (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Saixos,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=llnXxgEA,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2016-08-13T15:22:46.591+0000) > > Statistically speaking, Quinn is currently at an extremely balanced state. She has a winrate hovering slightly above 50%, around 51% usually, with a very low playrate so that mainly experienced Quinn&#x27;s play her, and those go up to a healthy 55-58% for the onetricks. Compare that to many other champions and you&#x27;ll find Quinn in an alright spot. > > Quinn isn&#x27;t OP, nor is she UP. This isn&#x27;t a buff request, but a QoL request - it has no impact on her strength ingame, just removes a bit of frustration while playing her. > > I will admit that Quinn can be very frustrating to play against, but just because you hate her guts doesn&#x27;t make her OP. oh u say "it has no impact on her strength ingame, just removes a bit of frustration while playing her." like she isnt frustrating enough to play against we have to make it less frustrating for her isnt she having enough fun fucking up people with her bullsht OP stuff ?** how about a QOL nerf to make her less frustrating to play against how does that sound HUH ?**
Sure, why not! Lets make her Q projectile appear thinner, so that it actually matches the projectile width. Should help. QoL changes really don't matter at all regarding game balance, they just reduce the frustration of playing as or against the champion. Unfortunately, any QoL changes for Quinn would barely reduce the frustration of playing VS her. That's just the type of champion she is.
TyrionL (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Saixos,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=llnXxgEA,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2016-08-13T14:58:50.405+0000) > > You know nothing, TyrionL. atleast have some dignity and dont have the insolence to ask for buffs its enough already that she doesnt get her deserved nerfs geez fking baddies
Statistically speaking, Quinn is currently at an extremely balanced state. She has a winrate hovering slightly above 50%, around 51% usually, with a very low playrate so that mainly experienced Quinn's play her, and those go up to a healthy 55-58% for the onetricks. Compare that to many other champions and you'll find Quinn in an alright spot. Quinn isn't OP, nor is she UP. This isn't a buff request, but a QoL request - it has no impact on her strength ingame, just removes a bit of frustration while playing her. I will admit that Quinn can be very frustrating to play against, but just because you hate her guts doesn't make her OP.
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