Meddler (NA)
: Preseason stuff is the limiter on this one. Once some assets for that are finished we'll be able to get some folks back onto this and another smaller rework that's also currently on hold.
At least do something for the current (balance wise), **its not fair** to let him in this state.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 23
Can you tell us if we will play this whole season with the current Wukong ?
Reav3 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=LoveNacho,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=JsmKpOUA,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-08-21T23:04:19.921+0000) > > Are there going to be reworks in between those three champions? Or is it just going to be Fiddle>Voli>New Champ>New Champ>New Champ? Also, is the price going to change for Surprise Party, given that it is the only legendary in the game to be 975 RP, or is it going to stay at 975? Currently the plan is NewChamp>NewChamp>NewChamp>Fiddle>Volibear, though that is subject to change of course
Where do you position Wukong there ?
Meddler (NA)
: We're actually trying having both team chat and All chat disabled for new accounts to see what the impact of that is. I don't think we should be removing chat for those who do want to engage with it given LoL's a team based game. Things like having it default off, letting people set it to auto mute each game etc feel like good options to offer for those who just want out of it though.
Team game but still no voice chat
Meddler (NA)
: We're planning on doing it. Not sure when though, needs some work on visual effects, audio and other art. The folks who'll do that work are currently busy however.
What do you mean ? Shouldnt Wukong be your priority ? He's so weak since age already. >Looking at Irelia in 9.15 zzz
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 7
Hi, can you share what's you collected from Wukong rework feebacks (more like what's the direction you will take for him) ?
: An idea about making it easier for Wukong to cast W after Ultimate.
Its the case on the rework. So you just have to wait... like us.
: Hey Meddler, I have tested the Wukong changes, and so far this is my opinion on the changes: 1) I don't see how Wukong is being shifted to become a Bruiser when the changes are shifting him from Caster to AA dependent. 2) Survivability problem is still there. and it's still dependent on 3+ enemies, which makes him less of a bruiser in lane, even in teamfight, stats doesn't make a bruiser anymore, rather, shields/heals/AOE sustain [look {{champion:92}} {{champion:266}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:420}} etc] + the fact that Penetration exists makes the passive even weaker. 3) Heal is terrible, my opinion [we dont need heal, we want something that can block % of damage for lane trading], or a shield. 4)I don't consider Wu a trickster: 1. 1 Clone is not enough, and the "S" stop command doesnt give you much potential to outplay anyone specially if they can AOE mash their keyboards to deny the outplay [{{champion:266}} {{champion:92}} ..] 2. Tricksters are assasins, with huge outplay potential and mobility [check{{champion:7}} an dash 2 times, and go back to same spot 2 times{{champion:35}} stealth that works as gap closer/dodge skillshots, W can trap/trick enemies, R can outplay any incoming damage] 5) Wu lost a lot of damage, and doens't have any source of reliable [hybrid damage/true damage/ % damage] that would allow him to sacrifice building damage and go for defensive items, even with the 20% armor shred on his Passive, its still bad, since he lost 10% comparing to the previous Q 6) Now you save W in hopes you deal damage in case someone tried to duel, cant work as an assassin or you will lose high damage output, cant be sneaky anymore [part of why he's not a trickster atm] 7) No CC at all, you cant contest with bruisers who can {{champion:92}} stun-knockyou up, {{champion:266}} many knockups and zoning spell, {{champion:24}} deny AA damage which W is heavily reliable on right now, and stun you, etc, All what wu got now is 1 second knockup on lvl 6. Do you know exactly what might change in Wukong's kit next week? and is there a possibility to shift wukong from bruiser to assassin and make him more like a trickster, by voting at least.
>3) Heal is terrible, my opinion [we dont need heal, we want something that can block % of damage for lane trading], or a shield. we ?? no, YOU. As laner, I prefer having some heal, helping me to go past his awful early game. And as jungler, i dont care about both, his clearly is healthy enough (on pbe) >1) I don't see how Wukong is being shifted to become a Bruiser when the changes are shifting him from Caster to AA dependent. Just seems to build him tankier with {{item:3053}} but... isnt this best like this ? I dont wanna Wukong to become Jax nor Camille.
: Hey gang! Thanks again for all the kind words, support and insightful conversations based around these changes. As we always try to mention, the PBE is often used for experimental stuff that we want the community's feedback on. You all made a few things VERY clear today and I'm super appreciative and receptive to your concerns. **As a result, I'm happy to share a new iteration of Malphite, which should be hitting PBE around Monday midday (PST)**. Sadly it can't be sooner, as we don't push things to PBE over the weekend. **Revisions:** * Q- AP scaling reverted to .6 from .4 * Q- fixed a typo regarding the cast time (was written as .5, is actually .4) * Q- adjusted the animation considerably to look/feel less clunky * W- 3x Armor multiplier when Granite Shield is active has been REINSTATED * W- the bonus damage on the initial Thunderclap hit has had its ratios reduced to compensate (.3 AP from .4) and (.15 Armor from .2) * VFX updates on Passive shield regeneration, Q missile/trench, W up-time/impact, E and R (**BASE SKIN ONLY FOR NOW**) **Context:** Q- Believe it or not, these changes were specifically designed not to nerf AP burst mage builds. We felt like the combination of extra Q range and bonus AP scaling on W would be perceived as a win here. Since that wasn't the case, I'm reverting the AP scaling on Q but nerfing the new W's ratio to compensate. And while I personally do think that Q spam is a little unhealthy, those who came before me were smart enough to gate it behind a high mana cost. I still think this is an elegant solution because the ability is most oppressive in the early game, and its gating mechanism slowly evaporates as Malphite levels up and purchases a mana item. Hopefully this will satiate all the cheese wheelers out there without frustrating your opponents too much. :) W- We underestimated how attached players would be to the 3x Armor multiplier. As a designer, it felt a little tacked on, and granted power in fairly obscure ways. However, there's no denying that preserving Malphite's niche as THE anti-AD tank is important to all of you. It's clearly a resonate fantasy and one I'm happy to bring back. **Clear-Ups** A few common questions/concerns have come up, so let's address them here! * Malphite's abilities won't gain range based on his size- sorry! I wanted to do this, but it was OP OP * The initial AA reset from Thunderclap triggers an Aftershock. This means it deals three instances of damage simultaneously; the AA, Thunderclap bonus damage, and Aftershock AoE damage. The result is a pretty meaty burst of damage! * The new speed differential between Malphite and his target are significantly buffed. Assuming you Q a target with 400 MS on LIVE, the delta between you would be ~225. In this iteration, that delta explodes to 350+ once you get some boots. The combination of a longer range Q, easier target accessibility, and improved burst damage from W should allow Malphite to participate in skirmishes and team fights without always relying on his R. * Scope for this project was super limited, and for good reason. I'm still new, I'm learning the tools, and bandwidth from art/tech was already accounted for in our project pipeline. Maybe Malphite will get a full VGU in the future, and maybe I'll be the one to do it, but that's currently not in our slate. ...Get it? Slate? Cuz he's a-- nevermind. **Next Steps:** * Next week I'd like to add a check to Q that uses your target's move speed if the amount you'd steal from them would make you faster than the base values. This preserves my goal of making Q consistently good, while retaining the playmaking potential of stealing from a particularly fast foe * We'll also be monitoring Malphite's overall damage output/power. I'm happy to reinstate the things you guys said were important to you, but that likely means that Malphite is now overtuned. Please keep in mind that we'll likely have to trim power from _somewhere_. Keep the discussion going! I'll be active here and on Twitter over the weekend. -Lutz
>Q- Believe it or not, these changes were specifically designed not to nerf AP burst mage builds. We felt like the combination of extra Q range and bonus AP scaling on W would be perceived as a win here. Since that wasn't the case, I'm reverting the AP scaling on Q but nerfing the new W's ratio to compensate. I think you shouldnt always listen the community. >And while I personally do think that Q spam is a little unhealthy, those who came before me were smart enough to gate it behind a high mana cost. I still think this is an elegant solution because the ability is most oppressive in the early game, and its gating mechanism slowly evaporates as Malphite levels up and purchases a mana item. Hopefully this will satiate all the cheese wheelers out there without frustrating your opponents too much. :) You are right here. Its totaly unhealthy and without any counterplay unless you are a range, but most toplaners are melee, the counterplay shouldnt be stay outrange or "outstat" the tanks (this why most hate lane against tanks due to how its not interactive). The Q is a point a clic poke and soft c,.. They talk about him being gated by mana, but now we have tools like {{item:2033}} {{item:2010}} {{item:1056}} and manaflow band. >W- We underestimated how attached players would be to the 3x Armor multiplier. As a designer, it felt a little tacked on, and granted power in fairly obscure ways. However, there's no denying that preserving Malphite's niche as THE anti-AD tank is important to all of you. It's clearly a resonate fantasy and one I'm happy to bring back. I think this one isnt healthy too, the players are rewarded by doing nothing but build armor. Keeping this and the Q... i feel like you just straight buffed him (i like the titanic thing tho).
YL 666 (EUW)
: What about Wukong? still nothing for him?
> [{quoted}](name=YL 666,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=82cE8haV,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2019-04-26T17:13:51.897+0000) > > What about Wukong? still nothing for him? Our champ is trash since 8 months !!! cause he was strong for 2 patches. Give us some intels at least !!!
Reav3 (NA)
: Axes
Hi, is CertainlyT working on a rework (regardless of the scale) or a new champion ?
: Post MSI Gameplay Improvements
Can you do something about {{champion:62}} ? its been 8 months since you gutted him And you are buffing every toplaners, adding items like PD, stopwatch...
Doge2020 (NA)
: A trickster would most likely toy with the target, my guess would be that wukong will have higher mobility but slightly (or much) lower burst to extend the time it takes for him to kill a target. This direction would definitely make him more like a bruiser but I will admit that with this direction there is still that assassin feel that you mentioned and there is potential for this idea to create another assassin wukong. Honestly an assassin wukong I wouldn’t mind, but I would like it if a “reworked” assassin wukong has much less one shot burst and more extended rotations and counterplay.
i wouldnt mind the OS if ennemies have more outplay potential.
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts March 29
Before leaving can we know if you (or the one working on Wukong) will make a thread to explain changes or goal ?? Or if you will open a discussion with Wukong mains (subreddit).
Meddler (NA)
: Work is underway yes. We've got some changes that have shown some promise in internal testing. Next step is to run some sessions with randomly selected Wukong players visiting our office to get feedback from them, see what their take is. In terms of direction, best summed up as more bruiser, more trickster, less burst. Hope is that that delivers on what a lot of Wukong players are looking for and leads to a healthier for the game Wukong. Do expect some current Wukong players to be unhappy with loss of burst though and one of the things that testing's going to be focused on is what the ratio of satisfied to unsatisfied players looks like.
> **> In terms of direction, best summed up as more bruiser, more trickster, less burst.** Hope is that that delivers on what a lot of Wukong players are looking for and leads to a healthier for the game Wukong. Do expect some current Wukong players to be unhappy with loss of burst though and one of the things that testing's going to be focused on is what the ratio of satisfied to unsatisfied players looks like. im fine with him being played bruiser but... trickster feel more like assassin. Hope he'll be healthier than Leblanc or Shaco reworks.
: I just vs Rengar Top
You pick Wukong... so ofc its an insta lose lane whatever they pick since riot gutted him. Yeah Rengar is a pain in $$. >Too many champions are abusing CDR with {{item:3161}} as well. no. Only Renekton and Jax are abusing it. Best Riven on European and korean servers dont build it (she's busted enough wihtout ).
: He doesn't need to clear the jungle with is stealth ganks he farms champions. But you already knew that. I guess you define terrible as requiring to use more one hand to play.
: Early game bullies are unhealthy to the game, change my mind...
>I main Wukong, and at what point does it become fair to play against these champions for 20 minutes? This nonsens. This champion is bullied by every toplaner but Vayne & Kayle.
nelogis (EUW)
: Wukong isn't fit for top, that is the issue You don't have cc, you don't have a good get-away tool, you don't have shields or any good innate tankiness. Literally anything you need to function top, Wukong doesn't have. Lane bullies are here to keep everything that doesn't belong to top, out of top. Just like ADCs and Supports do it in bot lane. It's like saying that lane bullies are trash design because you get smashed by them as Lux top.
Wukong is bullied top, jungle & mid. So i dont get you reply.
Reav3 (NA)
: Sure, current Champions we talk a lot about internally for VGUS are {{champion:36}} {{champion:42}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:9}} {{champion:56}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:72}} {{champion:102}} {{champion:106}}
So you're telling us Shyvana & Rammus are in worse spot than Wukong (visual & kit wise ) {{sticker:sg-lux-2}} He's mean to be the Monkey King of journey to the west, his kit dont reflect this (and he's not competitive).
Moody P (NA)
: why does red smite reduce dmg taken by 20%
>why does red smite reduce dmg taken by 20% Cause better jungler wins. >why has this item never been addressed for how obnoxious it is? Cause community cried when riot planned to change jng item into a new one (and planned to remove both red and blue item).
Velasan (NA)
: You did look at Dev corner this morning right? They literally just talked about it. Also, because it was originally intended as a more defensive option to go with the green one that gave wards and blue which they thought most people would use for catching people. Over time with only the two options available anyone who doesn't need the catching power of blue smite that badly just instantly opts into red smite whether you need it or not. For example, it's common to take red smite on Zac just for the damage reduction and to get that little bit of burn damage. However, they were just talking about nerfing it this morning.
>Also, because it was originally intended as a more defensive option to go with the green one that gave wards and blue which they thought most people would use for catching people. unless some picks like Jax & Lee, green smite was rarely used in solo Q anyway. >For example, it's common to take red smite on Zac just for the damage reduction and to get that little bit of burn damage Its not common. Only 5 % pickrate on Zac player base.
: The idea is that a jungler gives up an offensive summoner spell AND an item slot to be what they are. The different smites attempt to lessen some of that sacrifice. The numbers might be a little high, but they do need something if they're giving up that much flexibility in their inventory and summoner spells.
We clearly dont need it. We already rule the map and have the biggest responsability to smite objectives.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 11
Hi meddler, im a jungler main and assassins main i wanted to ask : will it be possible to have a rioter to discuss about Wukong ? I think it would be better on Wukong subreddit (cause they're more higher elo Wukong there). It would be a good opportunity to reconcile Wukong mains with riot.
: yeah there are not many high quality support skins :(
there are not so much high quality supports
BigFBear (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=DUDE BRO,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gTgEUAMe,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-01-08T21:27:33.013+0000) > > Remember when Pantheon got his legendary skin, and also got huge nerfs in the same patch? > They said that working on new skins makes them notice the champ more, and end up seeing bugs, or the fact that they might need tuning (nerfs or buffs). > > It makes sense as everyone on the team is talking about the champ, playing them to test out the skin, and they'll start to notice more things or get gameplay/balance ideas. Well, if they need random riot people who just test the skin to realize that Seju was broken af, then i ask myself: what the hell balance team is good for? Seju is 43%-45% wr since months!
>what the hell balance team is good for? You mean imbalance team ? {{sticker:sg-lux-2}}
: > They said that working on new skins makes them notice the champ more, and end up seeing bugs, or the fact that they might need tuning (nerfs or buffs). Then they should have removed Vayne's kneecaps, not buffed her. Vayne is like Azir or Ryze. She should never under any circumstances be allowed to be good.
On this board, you should really stop parroting each others.
: Are we looking at the same PBE patch notes? https://i.snag.gy/MuBQyH.jpg
No we dont. For some the buff is okay, for me i was like " WTF is this bs, shitty balance team".
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 9
>What types of topic would you like to see more of in these posts? I only care about Balance and rework (kit improve...) >How often do you want to see one of these posts come out? Twice a week's been the regular schedule for quite a while now, would once a week and a bit longer be more appealing for example, or is shorter but more frequent better? Twice is good. But what's matter is contents. Longer and relevant.
Sw4de (OCE)
: I just want JG to get outscaled again like they did for 8 years, logic dictates that the role that starts with the most agency/influence should scale down with game time while the roles that are restricted to an area of the map and are fighting PVP for all their resources scale up with game time This is how its always been, why are junglers scaling with laners now, its so ridiculously oppressive that i have to be scared of fighting the JG 1v1 as a solo laner from min 1 to min 50 every game
>I just want JG to get outscaled again like they did for 8 years, Who care ?? the game is decided during the early anyway. Scaling dont matter, i can pick{{champion:5}} gank twice top in less 2 min (or just showing myself). Top is won. And ill do this without losing anything (thanks to vertical jungling).
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 9
>The key ones there are how damage is distributed across the game (including which sources contribute how much damage), ADC itemization (crit primarily, possibly a bit that affects other build paths too) and reducing jungle influence a bit (lower camp reward scaling, less damage from the Smite upgrades). Fighters still wait for their spear. Still wait for a buff for BC. BC is trash and is mainly strong on {{champion:236}} & {{champion:21}} for God know reason (same for IBG but with {{champion:81}} ) >How does the idea of allowing a few specific champions to exceed the level cap slightly (level 19, maybe 20?) sound? Sound, excuse my french, U-S-E-L-E-S-S. Most game are decided before this point anyway. I would prefer you spending time on relevant things.
: For 5000 gold, {{champion:157}} will have 100% Crit, the bonus damage on crits, 80 ad, 30% attack speed, and 5% movespeed with the second reversion. For 5900 gold, {{item:3031}} {{item:1053}} will make him 1 v 5.
For 5000 gold.... so he would be trash. In which World can you sit on 5K golds ???
Wendígo (NA)
: I despise the new Hexdrinker And how it builds into PD
Hex is weaker, but now you can sit on {{item:1057}} and end your core build. i hate this hexdrinker tho.
: When you analyze a kit you also need to realize that a rank one ability isn't going to be extremely effective (in most cases). You also forgot the attack speed steroid from E.
Analyze the champs stats (mana include) and against what Wukong will lane. HIs Q is trash. YOu can't be serious saying the spell is all but trash. But again, you should play the champ to understand this (it'll be faster than explain you).
: But toplane wasnt the only ones who needed tiamat. {{champion:35}} {{champion:102}} {{champion:19}} {{champion:107}} {{champion:77}} also use it and are now forced to complete FB + half of second clear just too afford it at a decent timing, let alone the fact that them finishing a hydra is innefficient as hell as it is. Also according to op.gg i only see like 5 people who regularly build it. Theres others like {{champion:58}} {{champion:23}} who have done nothing wrong. Hell even {{champion:91}} gets cucked
And guess what ? Jungle needed nerf. Tiamat was the thing removing any weakness. I play Rengar, Talon & Wukong.... main jungle. Shaco needed deserved this nerf, Shyvana can clear jungle without tiamat (she used to not build it), she has cinder option btw). Talon was too strong, mainly after the nerf of mage waveclear Jungle as a role is too strong. Trynda need a rework (i could argue he needed nerf).
: Sooo, a champ with 53% win rate AND 35% pick rate isn't broken...
>...he's just so good, because other adcs are shit. hmmmm RIOT pov and boards/reddit one. its so dumb they take so much time for addressing this bs.
: Will the League of Bruiser & Assassin meta ever change?
Bruisers & Assassins ??? its clearly a mages f*cking meta
: Champions stuck outside the meta
{{champion:429}} is outmeta cause nerfed hard, not cause she's outdated. When viable in mid elo (diams) she's op in high elo (D1+). She's the best when viable.
Roark1 (NA)
: Riot's solution to S8 adc's is buffing them...?
The real solution is to nerf mages items... but you all downvote each time someone bring this. Let this board cry about bruisers when mages are so disgusting.
: His Q is also an AA reset, has an extra 125 range, and reduces armor by 10%.
When you analyze a kit you need to take in account against what he lane or jungle. So 125 range is nothing against Darius, Aatrox, Urgot.... 10% armor shred is nothing during early and you wont benefit hit cause the basic combo is E > aa > Q then you are out (minions will melt you).
: Says the lvl 12 account
: Tanks are only allowed as supports, didn't you get the memo?
I mean thats how you play tanks, even when you play top, you play them as support V2.
: So,in addition to Ornn's Passive "adjustment",he's getting better Resistances than Wukong's Passive
Totaly agree. I just play her on my main now. Honestly, Wukong players : PLAY NEEKO. She's a better Wukong than Wukong and AP items are strong atm (abuse it).
: A ad diver/ bruiser should have less dmg out put or (if not and) less utility than a squishy mage and less tank than a hard cc bot. Thats just how this works, he gets more mobility than ornn (and more guaranteed dmg) and he gets better dive than neeko plus way more hp and far less counterplay. Neekos dmg seems to be out of line rn, but you can literally dodge EVERYTHING and if you get on her shes dead. wukong is a hugely different story.
> [{quoted}](name=Seraphim117,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nxhOpf7b,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-12-08T15:46:06.422+0000) > > A ad diver/ bruiser should have less dmg out put or (if not and) less utility than a squishy mage and less tank than a hard cc bot. Thats just how this works, he gets more mobility than ornn (and more guaranteed dmg) and he gets better dive than neeko plus way more hp and far less counterplay. Hell no. A diver build full damage shouldnt deal less damage than a mage, mainly when this mage has more utility than him. Neeko do the same job than same job than Wukong with the same pattern. For the counterplay good luck against a good need neeko >but you can literally dodge EVERYTHING and if you get on her shes dead. If you get on Wukong he's dead too, Wukong is squishy (all of you forget this). Just wait to play against Neeko with Zhonya (she can ult during zhonya). the only point where i agree is the lack of counterplay on Wukong... but thats the issue, Riot dont work on him.
: i know wukong has issues, but complaining that a tank gets better passive resistances than a diver is silly. the problem with ornn is that his combo deals a shitload of % hp damage, not that hes beefy.
> [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nxhOpf7b,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-12-08T15:03:54.204+0000) > > i know wukong has issues, but complaining that a tank gets better passive resistances than a diver is silly. Its not even the main point of his post, you focus on a pointless detail. >I'm just stating the ability of the balance/design team to fix things, but they prefer to keep it to specific cycle of champions.
: Ornn PBE Update 2.0
They think this champ dosnt hit hard enough Oo along grasp {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}
Abuse me (EUNE)
: https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/monkeyking/euw/diamond This champion is what the fuck now? WEAK? He barely fucking reaches 48% in rate and his win rate goes up to almost 80% after you master his kit. What are you talking about. This champion is absolutely overpowered right now and needs nerfs. Quit fucking whining and git gud.
talking about wr without taking pickrate in account. The best Wukong NA agreed about the fact the champ is dogshit atm, Dominate say it too (not a Wukong main), Allorim an ex Wukong player (pro now) said same... So you think Diamond words > master/chall words ??? > Quit fucking whining and git gud. Totaly irrevelant here.
: > [{quoted}](name=Sharpest glasses,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=21N4n8vX,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-09-14T10:47:52.800+0000) > > Don't make such statement when u have no experience with the champ. > > Wukong get bursted instant when build glass cannon. looks like we have a condescending brat on the forums
>http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=toymonkeyjr+ insane
: He has a fucking 57% winrate. Yes, he needs a nerf.
he dosnt have 57%. https://u.gg/lol/champions/wukong/build/?role=top https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/current/platinum/plus/champion/MonkeyKing/Top/ and his pickrate is very low.
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Sharpest glasses

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