: > [{quoted}](name=Sharpest glasses,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=ws7hu2EH,comment-id=0011000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-29T18:15:46.462+0000) > > The extra range after each abilities was so cool (with conqueror would be amazing btw). We thought it was neat, too, but in practice it wasn't actually that useful. E puts you into melee range so you don't need the extra range, and R is a long duration channel with movement speed, so you don't need the range there, either. So basically W was the only spell that benefited, and given it has stealth + dash (and is oftentimes used to run away) it didn't get that much use there, either. That's why we felt it was best to keep it limited to Q. A 300 range auto attack reset is still really strong. :D
> E puts you into melee range so you don't need the extra range True... when you E on the champion. But most of us E into minions (to not take direct minions aggro). Was cool and totally resonate with Sun Wukong (of Journey to the West). And it helped us to farm (cause you didnt change Q damage +10 with 0 scaling lv1). Was a good chance to remove the "OS without any chance to react" without making us naked after using our kit. > So basically W was the only spell that benefited, and given it has stealth + dash (and is oftentimes used to run away) it didn't get that much use there, either. I mean... with the change listed we wont really change our playstyle. So we will use it to run away as you said. But with extra range each spells we would be closer of your goal >**We like Wukong's play style of being aggressive and tricky, and going for those all-in kills to dominate his lane opponent.** Just want to know if you totally ditched this idea ? cause you say its still tests (so i think you have other ideas) and many of us loved this part. Thanks for taking your time (to work on Wukong and communicate with us).
: > [{quoted}](name=Lorthos,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=ws7hu2EH,comment-id=00110000,timestamp=2019-11-28T01:15:11.586+0000) > > Did you play him on the pbe when the changes were there? Maybe I am different than the majority, but I felt like the range on every ability actually made Wukong harder to play. It wasn't all bad, but having range that runs out quickly after engaging gives ranged champs an easier time kiting you. Yes i played him on pbe , he was perfect jungler and had amazing clean clear. Yet he was good top laner too, i remember i stand toe to toe with yorick which one of the worst counter to current version of wukong and new kit change will make him useless against champions like yorick again. And best thing about about the old changed it can allow you to build him like J4 as tanker or buriser or assassin. So yes i wish they stayed with old version and give it that sweet R change then polish and launch him. But right lets ruin him, he will be more garbage with this change cause no healing for clean clear and in same time useless passive special against mages.
The extra range after each abilities was so cool (with conqueror would be amazing btw).
Blukachu (EUW)
: Get off the 'q rank 1 so bad' bandwagon. Its old and was never accurate and is being buffed anyway
Omikron (NA)
: It's still an AD ratio it just deals magic damage, I still agree that this makes it near impossible for him to build anything but tank now though. Don't see how he's going to keep anywhere near the same damage profile since he can't realistically get magic pen.
You mean bruiser, not tank. Q still have armor shred (same q as live).
: Wu might land in a broken spot after keeping the damage with shield and dash and W decoy with 100% damage scale. so tuning him later would be fine. on the other hand you see people who still want a binary shitting resistances passive kept, while every champ out there is getting heals shields and free dashes with CC.
Dont shame them... they dont know :) they really dont know that Wukong has shitty base state due to his useless passive (the one on live).
: Excuse me? you liked the "3 enemies requirement" passive that completely removed your Solo 1v1 potential? I don't understand how can someone be a "Wukong main" yet still want that old passive that expresses no "bruiser" when you read or apply it. With this passive you will have power 1v1ing people. you will be able to constantly absorb damage, raw physical damage mate, we're not talking about resistances that you can buy items and penetrate the fuck out of that passive, we're talking about someone that will allow you to survive even when you get ganked you will still have both [W clone] and the passive combined to live. It's been 6-8 months and i've been frustrated about the passive update, now I feel satisfied AF to know we're getting utility ,and all you can say is "I preferred".
I think he mean this one >P- ~~Wukong gains a large amount of resistances when near 3+ enemy Champions.~~ **In addition, he gains bonus attack range on his next basic attack after using any ability**
: Hi everyone, I just wanted to take a moment to thank you for all the detailed, thorough and well-written responses I've seen so far. Sadly I don't have the bandwidth to respond to each piece of feedback individually, but I've read every single post and proposal and will be keeping them in mind moving forward. Instead, I'm going to respond to a few of the most common things I've seen so far: * "_E into R feels bad because the attack speed is wasted_." Heard. I'll look into ways to mitigate this, but can't promise anything. * "_Wukong has mana problems._" Yep, he sure does. This is largely by design because his poke/trading pattern is fairly low counterplay. We gate this power similarly with Malphite's Q. I'll look into this, but know that it's an intended weakness of the character and buffing it would likely mean we pull damage out of his kit (which would hurt burst/assassination builds). * "_You're killing assassin Wukong_!" Not exactly. The goal is for it to remain "viable." That doesn't mean "the clear and obvious best way to build him in every game." It means you can still find success with it. And indeed, these changes are likely going to push Wukong more towards the bruiser space as his primary class and combat style. All we're committing to is that we aren't objectively denying the existence of lethality builds in the same way we did with, say, AP Master Yi (which was deemed unhealthy for the game). * "_AP on Q is bad_!" Please note that we're experimenting with giving Q bonus magic damage that scales with spell rank; NOT AP ratios. We have no intention of asking Wukong players to build Amplifying Tomes to deal damage. The goal is to slightly reduce burst damage from lethality builds while simultaneously making it harder for opponents to shut down Wukong's trades with early armor purchases. * "_Wukong NEEDS CC on his base kit_!" I'm gonna get flamed for this, but I disagree. A lack of CC is a very important aspect of his weakness profile, thus incentivizing and rewarding Wukong players for skillfully utilizing their stealth, clones, and hit-and-run mechanics. Wukong is actually fairly unique in how he approaches enemies and mitigates damage, which is something we want to preserve. Giving him a slow or root means we'd have to pull power elsewhere, which would likely end up hurting his unique identity.
>"Wukong has mana problems." Yep, he sure does. This is largely by design because his poke/trading pattern is fairly low counterplay. We gate this power similarly with Malphite's Q. I'll look into this, but know that it's an intended weakness of the character and buffing it would likely mean we pull damage out of his kit (which would hurt burst/assassination builds). At least, i hope you'll do something about his manapool growth. Having low mana pool during very early i can get behind, but past some point... most champions arent gatted anymore by old rules (look at mages they play an urf games games during late games and have no mana issue once they complete lost chapters). >"Wukong NEEDS CC on his base kit!" I'm gonna get flamed for this, but I disagree. A lack of CC is a very important aspect of his weakness profile, thus incentivizing and rewarding Wukong players for skillfully utilizing their stealth, clones, and hit-and-run mechanics. Wukong is actually fairly unique in how he approaches enemies and mitigates damage, which is something we want to preserve. Giving him a slow or root means we'd have to pull power elsewhere, which would likely end up hurting his unique identity. Nice. im fine with the full AD bruiserish (cause we'll go full ad if we only provide damage tbh). Im fine with that. I just dont want to be Jax, Illaoi (or anytoplaner) b*tch the whole game, losing early + getting outscaled is depressing.
Meddler (NA)
: Preseason stuff is the limiter on this one. Once some assets for that are finished we'll be able to get some folks back onto this and another smaller rework that's also currently on hold.
At least do something for the current (balance wise), **its not fair** to let him in this state.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 23
Can you tell us if we will play this whole season with the current Wukong ?
Reav3 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=LoveNacho,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=JsmKpOUA,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-08-21T23:04:19.921+0000) > > Are there going to be reworks in between those three champions? Or is it just going to be Fiddle>Voli>New Champ>New Champ>New Champ? Also, is the price going to change for Surprise Party, given that it is the only legendary in the game to be 975 RP, or is it going to stay at 975? Currently the plan is NewChamp>NewChamp>NewChamp>Fiddle>Volibear, though that is subject to change of course
Where do you position Wukong there ?
Meddler (NA)
: We're actually trying having both team chat and All chat disabled for new accounts to see what the impact of that is. I don't think we should be removing chat for those who do want to engage with it given LoL's a team based game. Things like having it default off, letting people set it to auto mute each game etc feel like good options to offer for those who just want out of it though.
Team game but still no voice chat
Meddler (NA)
: We're planning on doing it. Not sure when though, needs some work on visual effects, audio and other art. The folks who'll do that work are currently busy however.
What do you mean ? Shouldnt Wukong be your priority ? He's so weak since age already. >Looking at Irelia in 9.15 zzz
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 7
Hi, can you share what's you collected from Wukong rework feebacks (more like what's the direction you will take for him) ?
: An idea about making it easier for Wukong to cast W after Ultimate.
Its the case on the rework. So you just have to wait... like us.
: Hey Meddler, I have tested the Wukong changes, and so far this is my opinion on the changes: 1) I don't see how Wukong is being shifted to become a Bruiser when the changes are shifting him from Caster to AA dependent. 2) Survivability problem is still there. and it's still dependent on 3+ enemies, which makes him less of a bruiser in lane, even in teamfight, stats doesn't make a bruiser anymore, rather, shields/heals/AOE sustain [look {{champion:92}} {{champion:266}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:420}} etc] + the fact that Penetration exists makes the passive even weaker. 3) Heal is terrible, my opinion [we dont need heal, we want something that can block % of damage for lane trading], or a shield. 4)I don't consider Wu a trickster: 1. 1 Clone is not enough, and the "S" stop command doesnt give you much potential to outplay anyone specially if they can AOE mash their keyboards to deny the outplay [{{champion:266}} {{champion:92}} ..] 2. Tricksters are assasins, with huge outplay potential and mobility [check{{champion:7}} an dash 2 times, and go back to same spot 2 times{{champion:35}} stealth that works as gap closer/dodge skillshots, W can trap/trick enemies, R can outplay any incoming damage] 5) Wu lost a lot of damage, and doens't have any source of reliable [hybrid damage/true damage/ % damage] that would allow him to sacrifice building damage and go for defensive items, even with the 20% armor shred on his Passive, its still bad, since he lost 10% comparing to the previous Q 6) Now you save W in hopes you deal damage in case someone tried to duel, cant work as an assassin or you will lose high damage output, cant be sneaky anymore [part of why he's not a trickster atm] 7) No CC at all, you cant contest with bruisers who can {{champion:92}} stun-knockyou up, {{champion:266}} many knockups and zoning spell, {{champion:24}} deny AA damage which W is heavily reliable on right now, and stun you, etc, All what wu got now is 1 second knockup on lvl 6. Do you know exactly what might change in Wukong's kit next week? and is there a possibility to shift wukong from bruiser to assassin and make him more like a trickster, by voting at least.
>3) Heal is terrible, my opinion [we dont need heal, we want something that can block % of damage for lane trading], or a shield. we ?? no, YOU. As laner, I prefer having some heal, helping me to go past his awful early game. And as jungler, i dont care about both, his clearly is healthy enough (on pbe) >1) I don't see how Wukong is being shifted to become a Bruiser when the changes are shifting him from Caster to AA dependent. Just seems to build him tankier with {{item:3053}} but... isnt this best like this ? I dont wanna Wukong to become Jax nor Camille.
: Hey gang! Thanks again for all the kind words, support and insightful conversations based around these changes. As we always try to mention, the PBE is often used for experimental stuff that we want the community's feedback on. You all made a few things VERY clear today and I'm super appreciative and receptive to your concerns. **As a result, I'm happy to share a new iteration of Malphite, which should be hitting PBE around Monday midday (PST)**. Sadly it can't be sooner, as we don't push things to PBE over the weekend. **Revisions:** * Q- AP scaling reverted to .6 from .4 * Q- fixed a typo regarding the cast time (was written as .5, is actually .4) * Q- adjusted the animation considerably to look/feel less clunky * W- 3x Armor multiplier when Granite Shield is active has been REINSTATED * W- the bonus damage on the initial Thunderclap hit has had its ratios reduced to compensate (.3 AP from .4) and (.15 Armor from .2) * VFX updates on Passive shield regeneration, Q missile/trench, W up-time/impact, E and R (**BASE SKIN ONLY FOR NOW**) **Context:** Q- Believe it or not, these changes were specifically designed not to nerf AP burst mage builds. We felt like the combination of extra Q range and bonus AP scaling on W would be perceived as a win here. Since that wasn't the case, I'm reverting the AP scaling on Q but nerfing the new W's ratio to compensate. And while I personally do think that Q spam is a little unhealthy, those who came before me were smart enough to gate it behind a high mana cost. I still think this is an elegant solution because the ability is most oppressive in the early game, and its gating mechanism slowly evaporates as Malphite levels up and purchases a mana item. Hopefully this will satiate all the cheese wheelers out there without frustrating your opponents too much. :) W- We underestimated how attached players would be to the 3x Armor multiplier. As a designer, it felt a little tacked on, and granted power in fairly obscure ways. However, there's no denying that preserving Malphite's niche as THE anti-AD tank is important to all of you. It's clearly a resonate fantasy and one I'm happy to bring back. **Clear-Ups** A few common questions/concerns have come up, so let's address them here! * Malphite's abilities won't gain range based on his size- sorry! I wanted to do this, but it was OP OP * The initial AA reset from Thunderclap triggers an Aftershock. This means it deals three instances of damage simultaneously; the AA, Thunderclap bonus damage, and Aftershock AoE damage. The result is a pretty meaty burst of damage! * The new speed differential between Malphite and his target are significantly buffed. Assuming you Q a target with 400 MS on LIVE, the delta between you would be ~225. In this iteration, that delta explodes to 350+ once you get some boots. The combination of a longer range Q, easier target accessibility, and improved burst damage from W should allow Malphite to participate in skirmishes and team fights without always relying on his R. * Scope for this project was super limited, and for good reason. I'm still new, I'm learning the tools, and bandwidth from art/tech was already accounted for in our project pipeline. Maybe Malphite will get a full VGU in the future, and maybe I'll be the one to do it, but that's currently not in our slate. ...Get it? Slate? Cuz he's a-- nevermind. **Next Steps:** * Next week I'd like to add a check to Q that uses your target's move speed if the amount you'd steal from them would make you faster than the base values. This preserves my goal of making Q consistently good, while retaining the playmaking potential of stealing from a particularly fast foe * We'll also be monitoring Malphite's overall damage output/power. I'm happy to reinstate the things you guys said were important to you, but that likely means that Malphite is now overtuned. Please keep in mind that we'll likely have to trim power from _somewhere_. Keep the discussion going! I'll be active here and on Twitter over the weekend. -Lutz
>Q- Believe it or not, these changes were specifically designed not to nerf AP burst mage builds. We felt like the combination of extra Q range and bonus AP scaling on W would be perceived as a win here. Since that wasn't the case, I'm reverting the AP scaling on Q but nerfing the new W's ratio to compensate. I think you shouldnt always listen the community. >And while I personally do think that Q spam is a little unhealthy, those who came before me were smart enough to gate it behind a high mana cost. I still think this is an elegant solution because the ability is most oppressive in the early game, and its gating mechanism slowly evaporates as Malphite levels up and purchases a mana item. Hopefully this will satiate all the cheese wheelers out there without frustrating your opponents too much. :) You are right here. Its totaly unhealthy and without any counterplay unless you are a range, but most toplaners are melee, the counterplay shouldnt be stay outrange or "outstat" the tanks (this why most hate lane against tanks due to how its not interactive). The Q is a point a clic poke and soft c,.. They talk about him being gated by mana, but now we have tools like {{item:2033}} {{item:2010}} {{item:1056}} and manaflow band. >W- We underestimated how attached players would be to the 3x Armor multiplier. As a designer, it felt a little tacked on, and granted power in fairly obscure ways. However, there's no denying that preserving Malphite's niche as THE anti-AD tank is important to all of you. It's clearly a resonate fantasy and one I'm happy to bring back. I think this one isnt healthy too, the players are rewarded by doing nothing but build armor. Keeping this and the Q... i feel like you just straight buffed him (i like the titanic thing tho).
YL 666 (EUW)
: What about Wukong? still nothing for him?
> [{quoted}](name=YL 666,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=82cE8haV,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2019-04-26T17:13:51.897+0000) > > What about Wukong? still nothing for him? Our champ is trash since 8 months !!! cause he was strong for 2 patches. Give us some intels at least !!!
Reav3 (NA)
: Axes
Hi, is CertainlyT working on a rework (regardless of the scale) or a new champion ?
: Post MSI Gameplay Improvements
Can you do something about {{champion:62}} ? its been 8 months since you gutted him And you are buffing every toplaners, adding items like PD, stopwatch...
Doge2020 (NA)
: A trickster would most likely toy with the target, my guess would be that wukong will have higher mobility but slightly (or much) lower burst to extend the time it takes for him to kill a target. This direction would definitely make him more like a bruiser but I will admit that with this direction there is still that assassin feel that you mentioned and there is potential for this idea to create another assassin wukong. Honestly an assassin wukong I wouldn’t mind, but I would like it if a “reworked” assassin wukong has much less one shot burst and more extended rotations and counterplay.
i wouldnt mind the OS if ennemies have more outplay potential.
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts March 29
Before leaving can we know if you (or the one working on Wukong) will make a thread to explain changes or goal ?? Or if you will open a discussion with Wukong mains (subreddit).
Meddler (NA)
: Work is underway yes. We've got some changes that have shown some promise in internal testing. Next step is to run some sessions with randomly selected Wukong players visiting our office to get feedback from them, see what their take is. In terms of direction, best summed up as more bruiser, more trickster, less burst. Hope is that that delivers on what a lot of Wukong players are looking for and leads to a healthier for the game Wukong. Do expect some current Wukong players to be unhappy with loss of burst though and one of the things that testing's going to be focused on is what the ratio of satisfied to unsatisfied players looks like.
> **> In terms of direction, best summed up as more bruiser, more trickster, less burst.** Hope is that that delivers on what a lot of Wukong players are looking for and leads to a healthier for the game Wukong. Do expect some current Wukong players to be unhappy with loss of burst though and one of the things that testing's going to be focused on is what the ratio of satisfied to unsatisfied players looks like. im fine with him being played bruiser but... trickster feel more like assassin. Hope he'll be healthier than Leblanc or Shaco reworks.
: I just vs Rengar Top
You pick Wukong... so ofc its an insta lose lane whatever they pick since riot gutted him. Yeah Rengar is a pain in $$. >Too many champions are abusing CDR with {{item:3161}} as well. no. Only Renekton and Jax are abusing it. Best Riven on European and korean servers dont build it (she's busted enough wihtout ).
: He doesn't need to clear the jungle with is stealth ganks he farms champions. But you already knew that. I guess you define terrible as requiring to use more one hand to play.
: Early game bullies are unhealthy to the game, change my mind...
>I main Wukong, and at what point does it become fair to play against these champions for 20 minutes? This nonsens. This champion is bullied by every toplaner but Vayne & Kayle.
nelogis (EUW)
: Wukong isn't fit for top, that is the issue You don't have cc, you don't have a good get-away tool, you don't have shields or any good innate tankiness. Literally anything you need to function top, Wukong doesn't have. Lane bullies are here to keep everything that doesn't belong to top, out of top. Just like ADCs and Supports do it in bot lane. It's like saying that lane bullies are trash design because you get smashed by them as Lux top.
Wukong is bullied top, jungle & mid. So i dont get you reply.
Reav3 (NA)
: Sure, current Champions we talk a lot about internally for VGUS are {{champion:36}} {{champion:42}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:9}} {{champion:56}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:72}} {{champion:102}} {{champion:106}}
So you're telling us Shyvana & Rammus are in worse spot than Wukong (visual & kit wise ) {{sticker:sg-lux-2}} He's mean to be the Monkey King of journey to the west, his kit dont reflect this (and he's not competitive).
Moody P (NA)
: why does red smite reduce dmg taken by 20%
>why does red smite reduce dmg taken by 20% Cause better jungler wins. >why has this item never been addressed for how obnoxious it is? Cause community cried when riot planned to change jng item into a new one (and planned to remove both red and blue item).
Velasan (NA)
: You did look at Dev corner this morning right? They literally just talked about it. Also, because it was originally intended as a more defensive option to go with the green one that gave wards and blue which they thought most people would use for catching people. Over time with only the two options available anyone who doesn't need the catching power of blue smite that badly just instantly opts into red smite whether you need it or not. For example, it's common to take red smite on Zac just for the damage reduction and to get that little bit of burn damage. However, they were just talking about nerfing it this morning.
>Also, because it was originally intended as a more defensive option to go with the green one that gave wards and blue which they thought most people would use for catching people. unless some picks like Jax & Lee, green smite was rarely used in solo Q anyway. >For example, it's common to take red smite on Zac just for the damage reduction and to get that little bit of burn damage Its not common. Only 5 % pickrate on Zac player base.
: The idea is that a jungler gives up an offensive summoner spell AND an item slot to be what they are. The different smites attempt to lessen some of that sacrifice. The numbers might be a little high, but they do need something if they're giving up that much flexibility in their inventory and summoner spells.
We clearly dont need it. We already rule the map and have the biggest responsability to smite objectives.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 11
Hi meddler, im a jungler main and assassins main i wanted to ask : will it be possible to have a rioter to discuss about Wukong ? I think it would be better on Wukong subreddit (cause they're more higher elo Wukong there). It would be a good opportunity to reconcile Wukong mains with riot.
: yeah there are not many high quality support skins :(
there are not so much high quality supports
BigFBear (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=DUDE BRO,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gTgEUAMe,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-01-08T21:27:33.013+0000) > > Remember when Pantheon got his legendary skin, and also got huge nerfs in the same patch? > They said that working on new skins makes them notice the champ more, and end up seeing bugs, or the fact that they might need tuning (nerfs or buffs). > > It makes sense as everyone on the team is talking about the champ, playing them to test out the skin, and they'll start to notice more things or get gameplay/balance ideas. Well, if they need random riot people who just test the skin to realize that Seju was broken af, then i ask myself: what the hell balance team is good for? Seju is 43%-45% wr since months!
>what the hell balance team is good for? You mean imbalance team ? {{sticker:sg-lux-2}}
: > They said that working on new skins makes them notice the champ more, and end up seeing bugs, or the fact that they might need tuning (nerfs or buffs). Then they should have removed Vayne's kneecaps, not buffed her. Vayne is like Azir or Ryze. She should never under any circumstances be allowed to be good.
On this board, you should really stop parroting each others.
: Are we looking at the same PBE patch notes? https://i.snag.gy/MuBQyH.jpg
No we dont. For some the buff is okay, for me i was like " WTF is this bs, shitty balance team".
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 9
>What types of topic would you like to see more of in these posts? I only care about Balance and rework (kit improve...) >How often do you want to see one of these posts come out? Twice a week's been the regular schedule for quite a while now, would once a week and a bit longer be more appealing for example, or is shorter but more frequent better? Twice is good. But what's matter is contents. Longer and relevant.
Sw4de (OCE)
: I just want JG to get outscaled again like they did for 8 years, logic dictates that the role that starts with the most agency/influence should scale down with game time while the roles that are restricted to an area of the map and are fighting PVP for all their resources scale up with game time This is how its always been, why are junglers scaling with laners now, its so ridiculously oppressive that i have to be scared of fighting the JG 1v1 as a solo laner from min 1 to min 50 every game
>I just want JG to get outscaled again like they did for 8 years, Who care ?? the game is decided during the early anyway. Scaling dont matter, i can pick{{champion:5}} gank twice top in less 2 min (or just showing myself). Top is won. And ill do this without losing anything (thanks to vertical jungling).
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 9
>The key ones there are how damage is distributed across the game (including which sources contribute how much damage), ADC itemization (crit primarily, possibly a bit that affects other build paths too) and reducing jungle influence a bit (lower camp reward scaling, less damage from the Smite upgrades). Fighters still wait for their spear. Still wait for a buff for BC. BC is trash and is mainly strong on {{champion:236}} & {{champion:21}} for God know reason (same for IBG but with {{champion:81}} ) >How does the idea of allowing a few specific champions to exceed the level cap slightly (level 19, maybe 20?) sound? Sound, excuse my french, U-S-E-L-E-S-S. Most game are decided before this point anyway. I would prefer you spending time on relevant things.
: For 5000 gold, {{champion:157}} will have 100% Crit, the bonus damage on crits, 80 ad, 30% attack speed, and 5% movespeed with the second reversion. For 5900 gold, {{item:3031}} {{item:1053}} will make him 1 v 5.
For 5000 gold.... so he would be trash. In which World can you sit on 5K golds ???
Wendígo (NA)
: I despise the new Hexdrinker And how it builds into PD
Hex is weaker, but now you can sit on {{item:1057}} and end your core build. i hate this hexdrinker tho.
: When you analyze a kit you also need to realize that a rank one ability isn't going to be extremely effective (in most cases). You also forgot the attack speed steroid from E.
Analyze the champs stats (mana include) and against what Wukong will lane. HIs Q is trash. YOu can't be serious saying the spell is all but trash. But again, you should play the champ to understand this (it'll be faster than explain you).
: But toplane wasnt the only ones who needed tiamat. {{champion:35}} {{champion:102}} {{champion:19}} {{champion:107}} {{champion:77}} also use it and are now forced to complete FB + half of second clear just too afford it at a decent timing, let alone the fact that them finishing a hydra is innefficient as hell as it is. Also according to op.gg i only see like 5 people who regularly build it. Theres others like {{champion:58}} {{champion:23}} who have done nothing wrong. Hell even {{champion:91}} gets cucked
And guess what ? Jungle needed nerf. Tiamat was the thing removing any weakness. I play Rengar, Talon & Wukong.... main jungle. Shaco needed deserved this nerf, Shyvana can clear jungle without tiamat (she used to not build it), she has cinder option btw). Talon was too strong, mainly after the nerf of mage waveclear Jungle as a role is too strong. Trynda need a rework (i could argue he needed nerf).
: Sooo, a champ with 53% win rate AND 35% pick rate isn't broken...
>...he's just so good, because other adcs are shit. hmmmm RIOT pov and boards/reddit one. its so dumb they take so much time for addressing this bs.
: Will the League of Bruiser & Assassin meta ever change?
Bruisers & Assassins ??? its clearly a mages f*cking meta
: Champions stuck outside the meta
{{champion:429}} is outmeta cause nerfed hard, not cause she's outdated. When viable in mid elo (diams) she's op in high elo (D1+). She's the best when viable.
Roark1 (NA)
: Riot's solution to S8 adc's is buffing them...?
The real solution is to nerf mages items... but you all downvote each time someone bring this. Let this board cry about bruisers when mages are so disgusting.
: His Q is also an AA reset, has an extra 125 range, and reduces armor by 10%.
When you analyze a kit you need to take in account against what he lane or jungle. So 125 range is nothing against Darius, Aatrox, Urgot.... 10% armor shred is nothing during early and you wont benefit hit cause the basic combo is E > aa > Q then you are out (minions will melt you).
: Says the lvl 12 account
: Tanks are only allowed as supports, didn't you get the memo?
I mean thats how you play tanks, even when you play top, you play them as support V2.
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Sharpest glasses

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