Uriel (EUW)
: At the moment I have a completely different build for Veigar; {{item:3089}} {{item:3285}} {{item:3020}} {{item:3165}} {{item:3135}} {{item:3907}} Though then again, I know I'll get a comment that logically assassins will dominate him, it's a glass cannon build, but the rune page I use is one that revolves all around dominating my lane from level 6. But here's the problem; What exactly helps you counter against an assassin? Nothing does, except the stopwatch. The rune-page stopwatch goes online too late, and the bought stopwatch is a 600g investment for no lane strength whatsoever. Veigar's E doesn't protect you against all turret divers. {{champion:245}} {{champion:7}} {{champion:238}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:91}} all ignore your cage. Yasuo's ult (for some reason???) ignores your ult too. {{champion:99}} {{champion:103}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:202}} outrange/outpoke you too hard and forces you in very short farming runs. {{champion:1}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:163}} abuse the fact that you need to farm and free-roam, making you lose the game by acting as second jungler for their toplane and botlane.
Don't forget {{champion:105}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:35}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:157}} who can completely ignore Veigars cage. No items or summoner skills required.
Phridolin (EUW)
: in my games they does, cause i am silver and ppl cannot end and don't surr. so games last about 25 - 35 minutes (sometimes even longer) imo its a problem if a point-and-click spell deletes you even you buyed many magic res items (and if you're a tank it feels even more awkward when you have about 800 - 1000 k health and only cause its under the threshold you die. on a fcking range ability. i saw veigars who missed EVERYTHING and just threw their R on a squishy Assassin/ADC and they die. Not even e.g. a Darius can kill a squishy just buy pressing R.
> i saw veigars who missed EVERYTHING and just threw their R on a squishy Assassin/ADC and they die. His ult does 325 (+ 75% AP) damage, if you have 0 Mr. The lowest healt hchampion (level 18) is Gnar with 1615 health. If Veigar gets 1k ap he does 325 + 750 =1075 Damage. Even with MINUS 100 MR he would only do 1612 Damage. (At level l8 Annie has the lowest mr with 38.5 MR) Can you explain how he is capable of oneshotting anyone with his R alone?
: Here are my points: 1- Q is a skill shot, but so god damn fast, it's impossible to dodge if aim correctly. 2- His e is retarded in teamfights (burn flashes or die). Also Dashes now stop on the cage (riot should reversed it due to lack of counter play) 3- NO, he is not hard to play and he doesn't need a lot of game to get used to. 4- You can play him full tank with a deathcap and still have over 800 AP at 30 minutes, and THAT'S stupid. 5- Always the SAME combo ( e-w-q-r ) or late game on a carry (q-r). Does it looks hard to play? Conclusion : NO he does not require skills to play. Yes the champ is not balanced (low range is not the diffinition of balanced, tell all the yasuo's haters) PS: Yes his ult scale with missing HP, but dont tell me it's hard to judge ffs (full dmg at 33% HP)
>1- Q is a skill shot, but so god damn fast, it's impossible to dodge if aim correctly. Well his W and E can be easily dodged, which makes his kit very very unreliable. >2- His e is retarded in teamfights (burn flashes or die). Also Dashes now stop on the cage (riot should reversed it due to lack of counter play) "now" well since a year it does that. But es they should revert his Stun, so it is instant again ;D >4- You can play him full tank with a deathcap and still have over 800 AP at 30 minutes, and THAT'S stupid. Nah... you can try that in a normal, you need that extra damage. _______________ Well he is far harder to play than say Warwick, does not use a single skillshot (talking about champions who do not need skill) and has a blink+stun ability.
9 X (NA)
: Actually I'd call Veigar one of the unskilled champions honestly. Just farm out your lane one way or another, if you're in danger of being all-inned your E is pretty much as big as a lane, so barring being completely blindsided, QSS or just being flashed on it's difficult to finish off a team with Veigar in it. And of course attempting to engage a team with a Veigar means you need to inflict very big damages (ideally with chained crowd control) or people on your team are pretty much guaranteed to be chunked. And even then that may still happen between the catch 22 of waiting out his E or getting stunned trying to escape. There is a decent skillcap with his E, but even if you screw up immensely Veigar is a terror in teamfights. It's a wonder he's not played professionally more often.
>It's a wonder he's not played professionally more often. To be honest, the stun is VERY unreliable, so you can only count it as a cage, which can be flashed out, qss and many abilities can ignore it. (And Veigar dies with a slight touch of an enemy) Veigar is good with very good coordinated teams (so the Jungler ganks and stuns the target and Veigar drops his stun on him), but in LCS he is just far too unreliable to be considered a good pick.
Bultz (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=lmakehersquirtle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6szpLnuG,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-03-29T06:55:50.538+0000) > > Yeah because the fact that Veigar is a glass cannon and can get blown up in a matter of seconds means nothing. No, he has always had that passive, and the changes they made to him are the only thing that makes him an OK mid pick. lolololo He is def not a class canon, any idiot gets stacks, then build tanky on him to be able to 1 hit and survive fights.
I looked at your match history, you are silver 4, yasou main and lost the game against a glass canon Veigar. Why should any Veigar build tanky against you? So you take 4 and not 2 second to kill him? (serious question). He can literally be outplayed by bronze player by not running in the stun, avoiding the meteor (which has a huge delay) and then going full in.
: [GAMEPLAY] Riven still able to break CC post 7.2
Im pretty sure that is a bug, so why got this post downvoted?
: All Veigar has to do is press E and you can't do anything lol.
Why do people make such comments when you definitly never really played him? >All Veigar has to do is press E and you can't do anything lol. Well, except move, attack, use abilites and use items. You know, EVERYTHING.... {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}}
Elyanor (EUNE)
: Nerf
Im not, why don't you try to explain why you think that way first?
: Tantrum you are just what Riot needs to destroy their company. I hope they have more employees just like yourself. The real world allows you to speak your mind, but in Riots world words like terrible, pathetic, and bad gets you permabanned. Luckily in the real world the Police don't go around killing people who break the laws that they don't even know about. In Riots world they don't tell you what words will get you banned just let the feeders and trolls report you and Riot employees like Tantrum don't have the brains or balls to punish the players that cause the toxicity. Good luck tantrum and Riot. I will go spend my money on Heroes Evovled.
After >2x 10-game chat restrictions 2x 25-game chat restrictions 2x 14-day bans 1x manual time ban based upon manual account review I it is not really debatable if this course of action was right or not, it was. I never received a restriction since Season 2 (because i started there). So i would say you could have taken the warning, like an adult or get banned, easily. Also, you realise i now could ALSO, call you many things, insulting things which insults you as a person and your intellect as a whole, since you made such a ... good comment, because you thought that 2 games got you banned, even through you got FAR FAR more chances than you deserved. But im not insulting you directly, because there is a summoners code aka rules for not beeing a dick. Next time (This game or another) try to read beforehand what is allowed and what not. Of course you can Scream whatever you like, but if they forbid it you will get punished accordingly, if you can't understand that... well then thats just sad.
: Just admit it, veigar needs nerfs
>he mainly needs nerfs to his scaling, cause even if you win lane against him, come mid game or even some what earl,y he'll still beat you in a fight if he lands that stun, sure, you can dodge, but come late game, a point blank q is gonna chunk you for half health then deal 1k+ damage with his ult that cant miss yes, this is a salty rant post, but veigar in all honesty needs nerfs, mainly to his scaling btw his w hitbox needs some fixing, it's too deceiving. your thoughts? Do that ;D But compensate him. Make his E instant again (but with longer CD). >also he does massive damage to turrets(i mean, everyone does, but this) and if he got a lichbane/nashors, his aa's would be massive Well... if he gets nashor... then he should not be a problem for you. Else? Well, thats the game, every mage can do that. (maybe 20-30% less damage, because of stacks but still)
: Haha counterplay. Ah yes. So when the mid laner feeds veigar early....what should I do? Furthermore "The thing you do against Veigar is destroy him early" That's stupid--you can't always win lane. And in team fights, when things are chaotic, an OP champ is a huge problem even if, in a vaccum you could outplay him. Git Gud is not an answer. No matter how OP or broken a champion is there is always a way to, theoritically beat that champion, but that is not the point and that kind of thinking almost makes it impossible that a champion ever is a problem. You call the other guy stupid? You are the one who thinks he is much smarter than he really is. Go away.
> Haha counterplay. Ah yes. So when the mid laner feeds veigar early....what should I do? If you are the jungler? Gank! Are you not the jungler? Ward! >Git Gud is not an answer. No matter how OP or broken a champion is there is always a way to, theoritically beat that champion, but that is not the point and that kind of thinking almost makes it impossible that a champion ever is a problem. Well, if a player is bronze or silver and complains about a champion beeing op... look at the post, 50% of the champions are supossed to be op. But seriously, do you want tipps? For what phase? What position are you in? even better what champion are you playing? If you are a tank, then evade his meteor and dont get stunned in the cage (which is really easy). Are you a ranged tank or have ranged abilities? Use them against Veigar while you are IN the cage, he is as fragile as an egg. The Cage is down? chase him, dont get hit by meteor, he has zero mobility without his stun. >And in team fights, when things are chaotic, an OP champ is a huge problem even if, in a vaccum you could outplay him. Your team must ALWAYS work together, no matter who the enemy is. Somebody has a blink/block/Fizz ability? ({{champion:245}} {{champion:81}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:7}} {{champion:127}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:25}} {{champion:35}} {{champion:91}} {{champion:238}} etc) Use them and kill Veigar. Or you know, buy {{item:3102}} {{item:3137}} {{item:3139}} {{item:3140}} and go through the stun and beat him. Are you a mid champ against him? {{item:3027}} {{item:3116}} {{item:3040}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3139}} {{item:3065}} Are making you nearly unkillable for hoim (not all, take 1 or 2) But you could also read a guide... Or play Veigar, see if he is op yourself, maybe you are picking the wrong champions against him, or you are not familiar with him, see it for yourself.
nep2une (NA)
: Then don't get hit by them.
Don't let them farm peacefully for 40 minutes (and dont run into Veigars stun). Even then you can outplay them with other champions.
Penns (EUW)
: Improve with {{champion:105}} how exactly when it blocks my ult and he doesnt let me get in Q range? lel
You... are literally taking the champion as an example who can dodge Veigars ult, Meteor, Q, and jump out of his stun at the same time? But since you asked: >Improve with how exactly when it blocks my ult and he doesnt let me get in Q range? lel If he uses his stun, go in the middle, evade his meteors by going avoiding it, if there are minions stand behind 2 = Veigar cant do shit now. Now use Q to proc B. then R+W if he has meteor up again (which he shouldnt Fizz does easily kill even the most famred Veigar if he gets near him) then jump away OR om him with your E. Tadaaaa dead Veigar. Also, first item Banshees means he is missing alot of AP, mana regen, movement speed and what not. And dont forget its a team game. let the jungler gank, he can't do much against ganks.
: funny how his e last 3 secs is really strong and azir ult is a weaker version and is an ult last 3 secs not fair
Funny how Azirs ulti is realiable, very very hard to doge (because its fast), can repositions multiple enemies and does quite a lot of Damage. And if Veigars E cstun can be avoided by bronze players with bad reflexes and does zero damage at all. Also Veigars Stun will never hit a person who is not stunned (Never ;D) Seems fair if you look at the kite of both champions, even through the stun is far far more unreliable than Azirs ult, dont forget that.
: Some sensible buffs to Shyvana
Veigars stun does stops all dashes. (needed to make that right) So making it unstoppable would give her a unair advantage. > Because she has been around a 48% win rate with only a 2.5% or less pick rate and a .3% ban rate since her main item was removed? Veigar had a winrate under 38% and a 0.5% pickrate for like half a year (because Riot is VERY VERY good at balancing...) Is 48% not considered quite healthy? I mean you cant make everyone have a 50% winrate Azir has a winrate of 42.6%, thats unhealthy. > Make her W tick for one quarter damage every quarter second. This is mostly QoL, and a slight buff. The feeling of the super slow ticks is awful in clear, awful in fights and just awful. It also occasionally makes her easier to escape due to the fact that a tick doesn't go off before the enemy steps out of it. Thats sound reasonable. I like shorter damage ticks in general. > Another option is to possibly fix it's hitbox so you don't look dumb when you go to push the enemy towards your allies and instead 'miss' them, leaping away from the kills like a moron. This hitbox has received complaints since her release. Thats also a good idea, but dont forget that skillshots will also hit her easier then. I would also suggets (in addition to your changes) to improve her Ult Range. Why you ask? WHY NOT!!! ;D
: ***
> Flash is on a 5 minutes cooldown. yes > Not everyone has a blink. yes, but {{champion:81}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:7}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:25}} {{champion:2}} {{champion:35}} {{champion:15}} {{champion:91}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:238}} dont care about his stun at all. (the most, you normally only use {{champion:2}} ult if you want to kill him (but then you sucseed)
: ***
> Veigar is actually capable of 1 shotting as well, and it doesn't even require set-up. How so? With his Execute ult which requires the enemy to have low hp to do any damage?
dominusx (EUNE)
: Boy it's fun to play against a Veigar.
You really have a problem fighting Veigar? You have 4 Options here: 1. Outplay him 2. Outbuild him. 3. Outpick him. 4. Lose because you are incompetent. They nerfed Veigar because the bronze and silver trash were not able to do number 2+3 (because that would require using your brain a tiny bit, no really, everyone went full AP without MR or Health against him, what suprise that his W+E+Q+R Killed them ( or Q+E /Q+R )). I think Veigar is not really in a fine spot right now. He can stomp Bronze-Gold player without a problem, but then he reaches a SKILLCAP, which he did not had till season 4 (where he got gutted by Riot, since they dont know how to balance (his winrate was <39%)) this is where all the teammates need to assist him to make him more efficent, without them a 1 vs 1 will get REALLY hard for a Veigar. (if the enemy is also very good) So do 1 or 2 or 3. Or combine these taktics as you like.
: jinx chompers, like veigar wall?
Then Jinx chompers need to do NO DAMAGE and have a visable delay on it.
: Sorry all you Veigar mains and lovers, but it's just the truth, he is too much for ARAM, like Teemo is too much for one for all.... It's just not fun going against him on this map, you can't do anything, LITERALLY< NOTHING AT ALL. Merc scim is only good for one use, when he can spam this ability every 8 seconds if not sooner with CDR. Unless you have all range on your team, there is nothing you can do against him, you can't help your team, you can't jump in and help or you get stunned and die too, you can't defend your turret of which you are already stuck under, and you sure as hell can't have fun not being able to do a single thing. He is simply too much with his stun for ARAM, he is fine on summoners, but on ARAM, it's just not fair and ruins any fun.
So then we should also ban {{champion:9}} because his crows are silencing a whole team. Or {{champion:115}} because his range harass is very strong ARAM, So where should the ban begin and where should it stop? ARAM is just Random, maybe you have luck or not.
: > [{quoted}](name=ChromaSpell,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=xpEAnJFY,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-09-29T02:04:04.981+0000) > > With Syndra you can easily position yourself while laning so she can&#x27;t just E and then stun you because you didn&#x27;t see a random sphere. Like veigar, she&#x27;s also incredibly weak when her stun is down. > > With Veigar, without his W he can&#x27;t really kill you, and it&#x27;s not like he can land it if you aren&#x27;t stunned. Try moving around inside his E so he isn&#x27;t able to land it when it&#x27;s done just kill him since he relies on it a lot, turn your sound up or pay more attention to dodge his w.. anyway. Stay in the middle of your minions if you can, so he can&#x27;t Q you because the minions will block it and then follow up with a W + ult to kill you. Its more his E, W in tfs which is the problem. His E is only a stun on the outter rim obviously, but the inside basically means youre fucked also if ur stuck in it.
> Its more his E, W in tfs which is the problem. His E is only a stun on the outter rim obviously, but the inside basically means youre fucked also if ur stuck in it. Why should you have a problem with that? His meteor can only hit people who are waaay to bad to dodge anything (if you cant dodge the meteor you must be retarded) So he can only q + r you, at most but then he is also in rnage for your attacks. And if he would kill you with q +r just flash away. He can be easily counterplayed, counterbuild and counterpicked in this Meta, he is made so that even dumb bronze 5 people have a chance against him. Just choose one of the above methods...
: if you havent noticed on the boards that people dont want to have to counter play, counter build or counter pick they think the can blindly pick champs and build generic full damage builds smash face on key board and win... and anything to make them do different is either toxic, broken or op
Yes, this pretty much sums up the player base. Items to counter a champion? THATS UNFAIR AND BAD GAMEPLAY Counterpicking ? FUCK THAT, WHAT IS COUNTERPICKING? REMOVE THAT!!! Wait you can counter Zeds ult with {{item:3139}} ? REMOVE ZEDS ULT ALONE FROM THAT!!! I LOVE ZED!!! Jep, the most lol player are probably retarded, like the ones who remade Veigar a year ago (where he had a winrate of 42% for 9 Month).
: Well my freind looked at the damage (the one who died) he was at full health and the only thing there was Veigar's ultimate. Also I've seen his ult deal 1600 damage before when he was at 800 ap so Idk where you did the math
So you dont understand logic or math? 175 / 250 / 325 (+ 75% AP) When the one is at full health (pure damage when he has no MR) What is so hard to grasp here? If you even Deny simple gameplay mechanics... then jeah... I wont even look at your elo...
: i just got 1 shot by a 1/6 veigar
Cloud273 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=JackMcSnipeyz,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=b9GliN85,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-06T08:30:43.249+0000) > > Oh dont get me wrong - i hate! Veigar&#x27;d cage, byt veigar needs that cage to set up his combo to kill something when it&#x27;s not super late game. > Yasuo has tons of damage, a shield, and mobility to dodge everything an extra layer if defense that doesnt just minimize my ability, but outright deletes them is frustarating to deal with. > > > Think about all the things you have to keep up with yasuo: > - does he have a shield? How much flow does he have? > - are there minions nearby? > - how many Q charges does he have, does he have ultimate? > - and finally, all those calculations and the window is finally open, and his windwall/shield/dash is avaiable again! Veigar is supposed to be a late game champ. Why does he have a cage that grants him so much kill potential (and safety) early game? And even if he doesn't kill you (early game or late), someone else can easily finish you off, since you're trapped in the cage. And if you're still alive (somehow) at the end of all this, he just nukes you with his ult. I'm sorry, but for someone who's supposed to be a late game champ, Veigar's early game kill potential is just way too high.
You dont stun good people (at least not without stunning or rooting them before) Why is a stun unfair which EVERYONE can evade, you can counter it by picking a champion with flash (like 16 of them) or just buying an item against him? Also Veigar whole kit does not work if you arent stunned, so he would be useless without his stun.
: Give me my fucking lp back
{{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}} Nope ;D
: playing against him gives me emphysema
You know that Veigars stun can be easily evaded right? And his Metor can't legally hit you if you are not stunned. (you would need to be REEALLLY bad for that) and his q can be evaded by standing behind 2 minions... He is actually in not such a good position because his stun is very unreliable against good player, thats why he does not get picked in LCS
Bultz (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=SirPacifista,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BYExaGxu,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2016-06-18T10:36:43.022+0000) > > Well, he does alot of damage, but only if the enemy, you in this case, is a really bad player. > His stun is very unreliable, which means his meteor will never hit the enemy if they arent rooted somehow (or the enemy is braindead) > Also 1 hit? with the execute ult or q? (sarkasm) > > No really, don&#x27;t blame a champion because you aren&#x27;t able to adapt to the enemy team, every halfway decent player is able to counter a Veigar through various means. > > This just shows what elo you would need to play for that to happen. If you get actually stunned by the Veigar then it is your own lack of any kind of reflex/awareness and skill. lol listen little piss ant, hes fkign broken. stuff it up your ass calling me bad. he 1 hit three people before his stun was gone. Being fking broken is being fkign broken.
> Being fking broken is being fkign broken Jeah that is your opinion... it's crazy that the whole LCS and nearly every other player don't have a problem fighting him... His winrate is under 49% (now after he got buffed) but hey... he 1 hit 3 people and stuned them at once (because they run into the stun) soo jeah broken...
Shyvauni (NA)
: link to the post you are claiming is toxic? Riot is usually fast to remove such posts
I know this is an old post, but i think he meant his old post http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/1433lLvY-yi-needs-a-nerf-for-a-good-reason-not-a-bitchy-one You can decide yourself if all people where toxic to him or if he was just there to complain (never seeking advice).
Dankstin (NA)
: Just lost my promos to a confirmed Booster.
> confirmed Booster > The differences in those games and the ones below it are too stark to be played by the same player. Is that so? Or did he try out other champions and then switched to his main? Or did a friend play for him? Could be many things, you should report him or not, there is no in between here (like making a post like this) Also 3 or 4 good games is not really the same as boosting...
: Why does this work? Veigar you tilt me.
Wow, bashing a champions because you are a bad player... you did not buy defensive items (because it is not possible to 1 hit anyone with Veigar ult) and you and your team have no idea how to defeat a single immobile champion, who would literlaly die by 3 autoattacks. btw. these items are really bad on Veigar and anyone hwo loses against such a player...
Bultz (NA)
: down vote all the fuck you want it's true.
Well, he does alot of damage, but only if the enemy, you in this case, is a really bad player. His stun is very unreliable, which means his meteor will never hit the enemy if they arent rooted somehow (or the enemy is braindead) Also 1 hit? with the execute ult or q? (sarkasm) No really, don't blame a champion because you aren't able to adapt to the enemy team, every halfway decent player is able to counter a Veigar through various means. > Why is okay for him to literally be able to 1 hit three or more people? This just shows what elo you would need to play for that to happen. If you get actually stunned by the Veigar then it is your own lack of any kind of reflex/awareness and skill.
: nerf veigar
Would say it was not Veigar fault but your own... i mean you should now what to buy to play against what champion, thats a BASIC in a Moba. Sounds for me that you just want to blame a certain champion for your own bad gameplay.
: > [{quoted}](name=Abysswalker Sif,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=1HXhlPYF,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-19T00:26:53.782+0000) >veigar has no counterplay and is bullshit agreed
> [{quoted}](name=IAMS4T4N,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=1HXhlPYF,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-19T00:28:44.556+0000) > > agreed except playing good and knowin your champions and items? he cant "Stun" you, if you are not a complete moron, you normally win EVERY 1 vs 1 against him, since he is horrible at that. AD champions buy {{item:3156}} {{item:3139}} and NO MATTER what he does he is useless. So why do you even say he has no counterplay? I mean i know that you are bronze, but even you should be able to look up how to counter a champion. But then again if you get stunned everytime from him, maybe you should quit league ;D {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
: > [{quoted}](name=Abysswalker Sif,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=1HXhlPYF,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-05-18T23:26:15.426+0000) > > I don&#x27;t mind Veigar all that much {{champion:157}} I do -every other champion in the game
> [{quoted}](name=IAMS4T4N,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=1HXhlPYF,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-05-18T23:29:03.391+0000) > > I do -every other champion in the game well {{champion:238}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:91}} {{champion:25}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:7}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:81}} {{champion:1}} and a few other dont care about him, since they can ignore the stun (or annie can burst him to death with a 100% reliable stun). Buy Hp and MR, at least 1 item and you will see that he cant do much, thats hwy he is quite useless in high elo
: All of them are subject to damage over time abilities during that duration and channel'd abilities (fiddle W) will still go through on them.
> All of them are subject to damage over time abilities during that duration and channel'd abilities (fiddle W) will still go through on them. No? You should at least know what you are talking about. Fizz can evade 99% of all skills, Master Yi with his alphastrike can evade them too like Zed with his ult. Vladimir and Fizz could get hit by Dots (not channeled ones, you can evade these (except WW or Malz, but thats mostly all)) but Fizz can use his every 8(?) seconds or so and does a ton of damage with it.
: This is the reason. We are aiming for QSS to be good at countering enemies/teams with large lockdown that you need to be free of, not just universally against powerful debuffs. It's hard to have debuffs in the game that are both meaningful and fair when the opponent can just negate them with some gold and a button press.
I need to ask, why is it unfair to buy an expensive item to counter certain abilities, but perfectly fine if you use such abilities which negate all damage with a single button? Fizz, Zed, Master Yi and Vladimir are able to negate ALL DAMAGE and ALL CC, with just one buttom, and Fizz can do that every few seconds. Seems a bit biased here. 3600 Gold to counter a few abilities? UNFAIR = NERF ---> 10 seconds cd ability to do the same? Thats fine...
: "veigar wont be op after patch 6.9"
Nobody cares IAMS4T4N, learn to adapt to him then. Complain about Zed ult not beeing purgeable.
: I asked you to go else where. Unnecessary Comment. You Are Toxic and not worth my time. Goodbye.
So its toxic to tell the truth? Which point in my arguments are weak? Your thread got downvoted because nobody agrees with you here and clearly came only to tell your opinion out loud without even trying to argueing and completly ignore others opinions. So your comments and behavious only show that you are a toxic person, who plays at a very low level and is immune to commen sense. But i have to give you something back, you are clearly not worth anyones time, since your behaviour shows what a person you are.
: > So why have champions that counter champions? Why have CC? Why have Raw Damage? All of these things counter something. Mostly because there's a difference between soft and hard counters, being effective versus something and completely negating it. QSS tends to index too hard on complete negation.
But if we are talking about hard counters, what will happen to Veigars Stun? Zed is able to completly shut down Veigar stun with his shadows, which is Veigars only means of defense against him. Even a Zhonyas would not safe Veigar (and now it gives him less ap and has a 33% longer CD) since Zed can still kill him with q+w+e without Veigar even having a chance to hurt him. Also is Zed able to ult Veigar, getting caught by a perfect stun from Veigar and use {{item:3139}} or {{item:3140}} to free himself and kill Veigar instantly. Wouldn't it be fair if Veigars delayed stun could not be cleansed by Quicksilver? Since it shuts Veigars only defense down, which is normaly the only way to land Veigars W. So it even counters 2 of Veigars abilities, while giving a huge amount of damage and MR.
: Unnecessary, please navigate else where, you are toxic. Also I'm level 27.
Not really toxic, you were level 27 on lolking when i looked. Also you can easily counter him if you were to look it up how. I mentioned your level because it shows that you are new at this game which makes your complain less valuable because oyu dont have enough experience to be able to make proper plays. Also > So just played a game where Yi pulled a double kill on me and another champion who were both a levels higher than him, while we were under the turret. With both of us and the turret attacking him there is no way he should have survived, let alone get a Double Kill and escape. When this happened in the game, he was only LEVEL 9!!!! is this only your game, at a very specific combination of champs at low level. i killed a Master Yi with Veigar in 1 combo, so does that make master yi weak? (thats not a question) you should be able to see that personal experience in a game and the overall strengh of a champion should not be mixed. There are people out there who make Pentas with Urgot, but this does not mean that Urgot is in any way good or viable, it just shows the skill of the person with the champ and how the enemys played. Is this a satisfying explaination for you?
: Yi needs a nerf (for a good reason not a bitchy one)
You are level 22, and you couldnt hit a stun on him, so dont blame Master YI because you are not a good player.
BrodeRage (OCE)
: Master Yi nerf needed
You just need to know how to fight him, its quite easy. Also the right items help, he is not OP at the moment.
Razured (NA)
: Thanks for buffing yi riot
Bye, nobody will miss you ;D
Slythion (NA)
: I'm pretty sure I specifically said that my first point was to show that the arguments about Veigar were invalid. In fact, my entire post was about how the points made against Veigar being bad were wrong. Once again your reading comprehension has failed. For my second point, it was to show that I *do* have experience playing with decent players, and not just bronze skrublords that you were so keen to assume I was. Why you assume everything is meant to be bragging and not have logical value is beyond me... Point 3 was supposed to be a 3. - insert text - insert text format but it was corrected to be like that for some reason so ill just move on to point 4 (which is really point 3 with 2 parts to it) My 4th point: Again, the delay on Veigar's stun is really not that bad. LCS abandoned Veigar for the numerous attributes that I listed later in my post (see the "Overall" part of my post). To add to that, other champions do his job more safely making him not the most viable champion. Part 2 of my 4th point Me: "If you think Veigar's stun is bad and his damage is crap then that problem is on you, definitely not the champ" You: "well... no... thats not how it works... do you even have the slightest idea how champions differ and work?" Your response defended the OP for saying his damage is crap. All I said is that if the OP's Veigar isn't doing damage than it's his fault, not the champions. This is the post that literally started our conversation, and you say Veigar's damage was never mentioned? As for my ranked stats: Don't mistake annoyance with anger man. I am annoyed that you brought irrelevant evidence, trying to pass it off to disprove my points. I thought we would've had a real debate with actual logic instead of mindless insults to try to please our egos, but then you had to go ahead and start insulting me without any reason... You wonder why I don't play ranked? Because ranked is stressful and in many ways less competitive. I find normals more fun with less toxic players and having an overall better community than ranked players. I have the impression that ranked players have an ego, thinking they are better than normal players because they have this magical thing called LP. I feel it's a stupid mindset, but if players are going to continue disregarding/insulting me based on 15ish games I played over a year ago than maybe I *do* have to play a few ranked games just to get rid of this stupid "flaw" that some people think I have. My words don't change whether I'm bronze or challenger. If you were having this conversation with Faker you would most likely be agreeing with me because you allow his rank to have more meaning than his actual words, which is inherently stupid. Meanings don't change, but how you perceive them do based on how you see the messenger. What truly perplexes me is why *you* have this "I'm better than you" attitude when you yourself aren't ranked. You can act like calling me bronze/silver elo effects the logic behind my words, but the bottom line is that you are no better yourself. So let me ask you, why do you not play ranked but feel the need to insult others for not playing ranked? Hypocrisy at it's finest
ahhh too long did not read ^_^ its cute how salty you get and how you are trying to defend your previous statement: > Whenever I play Veigar I have success with him. When I lose it's certainly not because I don't do damage lol, doing tons of dmg is incredibly easy with Veigar. If you think Veigar's stun is bad and his damage is crap then that problem is on you, definitely not the champ and then wanting to say that the first sentence was against the OP arguments... which is plain wrong since it has no meaning other than trying to brag about bronze plays.... i think its rather your reading comprehension that failed over and over, since your arguments are.... weak... {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}} {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}} {{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}} {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
Slythion (NA)
: Lol, your comment was completely unwarrented. All I did was disagree with you and you come at me with this super aggressive, insult-filled response without any statistics/evidence? Really now? Fine then, let me explain myself because your reading comprehension appears to be out of order. 1. I said I have success with Veigar. In no way, shape, or form did say he was a good/viable champion for this meta. The *only* thing that sentence meant was that your points about Veigar being useless were straight up wrong. 2. You insult my rank from *over a year ago* where I played a total of maybe 15 games. Congrats man, you can't even background check properly. The fact that you even bring rank in as a reason to disprove me instead of real facts of evidence proves that you lack a *real* argument. P.S.- I play with occasional Gold/Plats/Diamonds although the majority of my teammates are high silvers now if you really feel the need to insult a players skill instead of logic 3. - That second quote I will still stand behind. Veigar's stun will always be reliable unless a meta comes in where champions are loaded up with blink abilities. It's an aoe cage that stuns anyone for trying to escape, it can zone/control teamfights and is great for picking off enemies who are out of position. Even with it's delay, a good veigar is able to land the stun reliably. - Veigar's damage is definitely NOT crap unless the player is crap at stacking. This is another constant in Veigar's kit that you wrongfully accused of making Veigar bad. To clarify, Veigar isn't viable in this meta, but not for the reasons you stated. The reason Veigar is struggling is because of the anti-mage meta. Assassins dish out damage faster than Veigar, and with the popularity in ad meta makes it difficult for Veigar to get fed off his laner after his 1st back. His relatively short range forces Veigar into risky positions where he can be picked off in teamfights and although his damage is reliable and definitely has a magnitude, he lacks the means to reliably dish it out without dying afterwards. Overall: - Neither his stun *or* his damage are the problem, but the current anti-immobile mage meta that we are in abuses his short range. Many popular assassins are able to bipass the stun with blink abilities, and I would even go as far as to point out the thinner lanes (was changed awhile ago) was the predecessor of the immobile-mage struggle. Maybe next time you shouldn't get all pissy and aim to have a REAL conversation instead of coming out in a burst of rage-filled irrelevant insults that aren't even true. ALSO: Do YOU play in the LCS? Idk if you noticed, but the LCS is a completely different game than what the majority of Summoners play. While it's a good cornerstone to base how a champion is doing, to use it in a way that means you *expect* players to play like LCS players is ignorant and stupid. Don't call my post retarded after using a purely insult-filled post to try to discredit me. Next time bring reason and facts instead like a decent human being instead of being an ass {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}} Oh, and how dare you insult my rank from over a year ago with only 15 games *when you aren't even ranked*. Wtf kind of logic is that
Looks like someone is salty because i mentioned his rank in his last season xD{{sticker:zombie-nunu-tears}} Jeah jeah you know exactly what you are talking about... your 1. Point does not make sense, because you answered "A Dizzy Lulu" not me... you genius... But again, what does your point that you won a game with him say except that you are behaving like a kid? Your 2. Point > I play with occasional Gold/Plats/Diamonds well again, are oyu trying to brag with something like that? thats just shows that you are salty... your 3. Point missing, your 4. Point is completly wrong, not an opinion its a fact... ever tried playing against people out of bronze? The stun is the reason that he was abdoned by the LCS and the higher elos, because no matter how good you are, you cant land it against an enemy who is good and not stunned beforehand. You definitly never played Veigar, or are good with him to not know this. your 5. Point never said he does not deal damage... never even mentioned this point... i mean he is a burst champions, if he must deal damage... Ohh by the way, if you play ranked with your current account, why are you pissed if someone even mentioned it? YOU wanted to compare yourself with others, and if you are bad at it, then either change it or dont complain is people mention it... Also again... it looks like oyu have absolutly no idea what Veigar is right now, yes the meta is strongly against him, but he is still at a bad point, and its funny that you are incapable of seeing that. But then again, at bronze and silver he is probably a very reliable, so that explains why you think that {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}} {{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}}
Beldair (NA)
: The argument that AP casters are unplayable is null and void to Solo Q matches where i have beaten players as an AP mage or in the LCS where the pros destroy as AP mages.....And your bot game holds less value than a US penny soo....
I think you are incapable to understand your own and my point... also you are taking the op literally, which he does not intend to. Try reading your first comment again... and like before, i dont know why you think that a botgame is worth less than your bronze plays... {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}}
Beldair (NA)
: I destroyed a Zed as Anivia...soooooo....
We are all pround of you defeating a Bronze 3 Zed... How about i tell you about a bot game? pretty sure even thats holds more value than your argument...
: You've never played against a good Veigar then. Seriously though, a fed Veigar can delete squishies.
You may have a point, but have you ever played in a good team with or against a Veigar? Normally he does not get fed, at higher elo he gets ganked quite often to weaken him early on and the enemy mid champion harasses him while standing behind 2 minion, which completly nullifies his q harass (and w does not harass anybody.... ever...) He does indeed a high amount of damage, but only if the stun hits, (so his e+w+q(+r) combo), but i think the op means that the stun is very unrealiable and in this point he is right (against people who know how to play of course)
: > [{quoted}](name=A Dizzy Lulu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1oF4eV76,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-03-24T17:29:46.567+0000) > > It's pretty laughable in the sense that without your CC landing (aka it never well) then you will contribute little to nothing. > > if you land a stun then they will just qss it or have hexdrinker built and your burst does nothing lol > > if it's an AP champ then chances are you lost lane either way and won't have enough damage to kill anyways If I'm reading between the lines correctly here, you're just not good at {{champion:45}}Veigar and because of this think that he is terrible, when in fact it's how you're playing him that's ineffective.
Not defending the OP, but two things: 1. You are level 22 with your current account, which is suprisingly if you are insulting someone. 2. Do you know his winrate or LCS player who play him (or even diamond/master player)? you can look the second point up yourself, then try defending you point.
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