: Why was Spirit Visage nerfed exactly?
Tanks are so busted right now so not only are we killing their damage output with Sunfire nurf, we're nerfing the tank aspects of SV and improving it for everyone else. Hahahaha. I'm so glad I quit playing this game, because it get's more and more retarded every time I check in on it :D
: Playing off-meta yourself makes you more tolerant to picks you dont see often.
I once played Jax into a toplane Thresh, he literally made me his bitch as he had all the tools to stuff my engages or gimp my escape if I was getting ganked.,not to mention lantern the jungler/midlaner on top of me as I struggled like a toddler in quicksand. Toplane Thresh's are a special breed and they're generally highly skilled, people really do underestimate how strong he can actually be, especially against binary melee champs. That being said, I agree with you OP, we really need to see more off-meta picks and fanbois should really stop riding the pro's d***s. There are ways to play this game out there that are extremely effective even though they aren't meta.
Sokar468 (NA)
: Hahaha, wow! Well, the enemy team with the poke comp still needs to play it well. There is certainly joy to overcoming those kinds of comps, but with the pressure of losing an inhibitor being so great, the desire to play it out becomes less. In my most recent ARAM run, I had a few games where teammates just felt like leaving because of super minion pressure.
Honestly, this is the most supreme dick move from Riot ever, if you thought ARAM had isses with dodges ( I avarage 3-5 games being dodged before I actually get to play) making my total Q times already ridiculous, just wait. Full melee teamcomps will now be a must dodge since there will be no chance of even getting into the game since weak waveclear and weak tower pressure. The frantic back and forth that has become so iconic for ARAM will be gone. And if they're getting Rid of the possibility of full melee, then it won't even fucking be ARAM for fucks sake. No matter how they do this it will be fucking garbage, I know because that happens ever single fucking time now. ARAM was my last go-to mode, now they're going to ruin that as well. Everything to get people into their demented and spastic shit Summoners Rift. Well, fuck that, I now have no more reason to play this game. So fuck it, I'm out.
: ARAM isn't meant to be balanced, is my response to everything you said. EDIT: I will not dignify the children responding to me, present a counter argument to what I have stated rather than spamming "WAAAAH" .
Isn't supposed to be a onesided shit-stomp based on comp either? But that's where were going now. Halleluja, adc and mage mains can rejoice.
Sokar468 (NA)
: Did ARAM players actually ask for a "faster" experience?
If anything the ability to come back in ARAM after having being bullied by retarded teamcomps while you're playing an odd teamcomp was the only reason to play ARAM. Now those full mage 1 adc teams will just faceroll, those 3 support 2 adc comps will just faceroll, every cancer comp with Ziggs, Nidalee, (insert other demented mage) in it will faceroll. Because there is not a living chance in hell those full tank/ fighter/ diver comps will be able so scale up enough since they always flatly get fucked in the early game getting instantly focused down if they try to make a move and endlessly poked out since they have no tools to answer before they have the defenses to do so. Being able to come back was the only saving grace of playing odd (bad) teamcomps and now were removing that? WHAT THE FLYING FUCK RIOT?!
: > [{quoted}](name=SlaktarTasken,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=77dcifls,comment-id=002400000000,timestamp=2017-04-17T21:45:38.634+0000) > > Google trends clearly shows that there is far lower interest for the game than there was some seasons back. > Yes, people don't use google to play the game, they did NOT either when Leauge was at it's peak on GTrends. > But a huge ammount of people do get their content from Youtube and guess who owns Youtube and which search engine it's intimateley entwined with, alas, to refute the statistics would be plain dumb. > > Also, people seem to wet their pants nowadays whenever an NA LCS match gets 100k viewers on Twich, back in S3-S4 we were often sniffing half a mill if not above it. > > I know because I used to watch pro games back then, last season some of the highly anticipated NA LCS matches had pitiful viewership by comparision barely scratched the 100k bar. > > It's impossible to tell where League is because those numbers are something Riot seems to closely guard, > What we do know is that the interest in the game is clearly on the decline and far lower than it used to be, that should be a clear indiciation of anything of where the game is going. Not that anyone should need to worry, League is pretty large if not the largest and will probably stay large for some time. > > Sooner or later though something will break it, be it Riot themselves or a far better MOBA, that's just the nature of games. ughhhh That's because back then, the only way to watch it was with twitch. Now, it's possible through Youtube, Twitch, and lolesport website.
Twitch still holds the lions share of the viewership, it's just a far more popular platform. I highly doubt that numbers match up even when stacked, but you're welcome to prove me wrong, personally, I really don't give a shit.
: No. It does not show that at all. It only looks for search terms, not how many times a site is visited or how populated a video game is. Every player in the world who plays this game does not do a google search to get to this website or to play the game.
MrHaZeYo (NA)
: Except it only shows from July 14, she was in that bad of shape from the start of Season 4 when her kit got changed from her dominance of Season 3. She spent the 1st half of Season 4 in that awful state.
Ooo Ahri so bad had negative winrate 3 seasons ago, that's why it's ok that she's been a pocket pick for Pro players pretty much ever since then and rarely dipped beneath the 53% winrate. Boohoohoooo. {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}
: Google trends is not a good a good indicator for League of Legend's popularity. Most people who play League of Legends now do not use Google's search engine to play the game or to get to their League of Legend's related content.
Google trends clearly shows that there is far lower interest for the game than there was some seasons back. Yes, people don't use google to play the game, they did NOT either when Leauge was at it's peak on GTrends. But a huge ammount of people do get their content from Youtube and guess who owns Youtube and which search engine it's intimateley entwined with, alas, to refute the statistics would be plain dumb. Also, people seem to wet their pants nowadays whenever an NA LCS match gets 100k viewers on Twich, back in S3-S4 we were often sniffing half a mill if not above it. I know because I used to watch pro games back then, last season some of the highly anticipated NA LCS matches had pitiful viewership by comparision barely scratched the 100k bar. It's impossible to tell where League is because those numbers are something Riot seems to closely guard, What we do know is that the interest in the game is clearly on the decline and far lower than it used to be, that should be a clear indiciation of anything of where the game is going. Not that anyone should need to worry, League is pretty large if not the largest and will probably stay large for some time. Sooner or later though something will break it, be it Riot themselves or a far better MOBA, that's just the nature of games.
AhmCha (NA)
: League isn't dying
Not dying? Lol, according to google trends it's at 2012 levels of popularity. Like 1/3 of what it was in it's prime. Leauge numbers are terribly inflated, when I was playing at my nerdiest I was playing on 4 acc's simultaneously. I can image alot of people have or had as many if not considerably more. Bah, what do I care.
Míellá (NA)
: a gp that is feeding is normal, just because he gets rekt by nearly any enemy until lvl 13.
GP feeding? LUL? GP is super fkin safe! GP feeding = Utter trash.
: Alternatively, when I do pick a "tanky" champion (Singed one trick) my teammates will scream and cry when they die about how I'm not tanking hard enough. I think a lot of ad carry/mid mains underestimate how fast I will blow up if I get stunned. The only tanks that can run around full retard in the enemy team and not die are poppy and maokai...
I've also encountered this, yet if you tank to their satisfaction, you always die for nothing since the people screaming for tanks are almost always the shittiest players since they put more effort into dictating what other play instead of improving themselves. (When was the last time you saw anyone screaming for a tank in a masters/challenger game?) Thus all you end up doing is giving your opponents a free ace. Carry wannabe crybabies should stfu and mind their own picks, if they want a classic team comp that badly they are free to pick a tank.
: I don't why Yasuo is considered a healthy design
He's healthy because flashy = healthy according to Riot and fanbois. You could pour another ton of toxicity into his kit generalist fanbois would still call him oh sir heeeaaalltheeeh
: If you have a ban, ban Xerath. If somebody picks him, dodge.
Ugh, but people never hack in dis gem! ResidentSleeper I promise, never, anyone who says otherwise just sucks and needs to git guud! Jebaited Jebaited Jebaited
AmazoX (EUW)
: Graves is doing exactly what Kindred did at their prime. He got up votes because we kindred players would like some adjustments made to Kindred.
Ugh, I'd rather have graves brought to kindreds level, that alone will make her a more attractive ranged jungler. :v
: Lool. Most people died because they underestimated Kindred's damage simply because they were ranged and squishy. It wasn't because they were OP.
I don't know, all I know is that I was always sh*t scared of encountering her when jungling when she was in her prime. I think I'd rather have her where she is that buff her back to that level. Since Riot never seems to do "inbetween" :v
: Kindred got nerfed because they would clear the jungle too quickly and still have high hp
I thought she got nerfed because coming across her as a melee jungler without a gapcloser and gapcloser meant she'd just faceroll you for a free kill, heck she could even duel most junglers with a gapcloser with her strong kiting. The fact that you'd always encounter her healthy was just more salt on the wound.
Natake (NA)
: Cut one and all down regardless of their faction High Speed, sword boots got a ton of traction When I'm picked, rage and dodge are the sole reactions It's time to put plan Alpha Strike into action Glowing blade, goggles straight from Heimerdinger Nowhere on the map is safe, call me Deathsinger I'm looking for a corpse, and son, you're a dead ringer. They curse the name, my influence still lingers. The focused mind can pierce stone? Yeah, well, the focused blade can pierce bone. I hope you're ready for fierce owns. Move so fast, you oughta put up traffic cones. Motion blur, give them all motion sickness. He's sick, she's sick, they're all sick Cause Yi Slick is too sick, moves too quick, first pick Kick into overdrive, hat trick with a single click. Chorus: Behold the might, go on, take a gander Disses, detractors, and tons of slander Call me "no skill champ", but I'm a commander I'm Yi son, there can only be one: Highlander They call me Yi, but you can call me master Building momentum, faster and faster Watch me one shot any squishy caster I'll sever your Sivir, then come back for Annie Hastur. 420 movespeed, call me trailblazer Locked on, high speed laner seeking laser I'm fed, but I want more, where's the waiter? Every match I hear "Are you sure you're not Faker?" Get rekt, number one threat, I bet You regret that Yi is ready set Well, we met before, so do me a favor And at least make me break a sweat. I'll bait with meditate, you'll congregate To seal the fate of the all-time great Master Yi before you see that it's too late I'll assassinate all 5 right out the gate But then I'll wait, 'cause my sword still thirsts for blood But I guess you all can't relate I wrote this like 3 years ago on the forum.
Rioter Comments
koshkyra (NA)
: When you say "ggez", you're are legitimately being an A-hole.
I only ggez full teams that BM my team in game, if it's single players I'll just gank them or prioratize killing them if possible (really nice when vastly ahead). Especially those dorks with a penchant for spamming mastery 24/7, feels so good to walk all over those kind of players. I never pull out the ggez unprovoked because I literally think it's worse than telling someone to go #¤)(=# themselves.
: A message to all the people out in low elo ranked
Teleport can sometimes be a noob trap, yes it might work in some situations, but some champs simply don't benefit from it, especially if they lack hard cc/mobility to get in place or prevent opponents from just walking away since it has a longass cast time, or really fast towerslaying. Wasting a telelport is like literally not having summoner, often times it also allows the opponent to just run down your tower so by not being able to telegank successfully you sometimes let your lane opponent catch up or you fall behind further, you're generally heavily at the mercy of your teammates coordinating with the teleport for it to be successfull in the early/mid-game. Ignite/exhaust CAN be better if you're strategy is snowball your lane (very effective in matches where you straight counter your opponent on a champ that you're highly proficient with) and relieve pressure from the rest of your team that way since they will always need to send more champs to deal with your splitpushing. They are both good ofc, the point is that teleport is not always the answer.
RichBean (NA)
: Nice opinion. You can't win an argument by just saying anyone who has different beliefs on the matter is wrong. Just destroys everything you wrote up to that point. (looked you up, you only play Aram and bots, don't see how you can have an opinion on competitive)
And I said that when/where? Is that so? Pretty odd because I have 3 championship Maoki skins on 3 different acc's including this one. I gave up on ranked before S7 for my own reasons, but the bagde and stats are still there so do look again, might I suggest you don't tunnelvision on match history this time around? Also, if there's something in my text you oppose, why not post an actual argument instead of nothing?
Salron (NA)
: This means that you'll be able to kill someone low health on the opposite end of a minion wave though
That's so extremely circumstantial it might as well not be counted.
: In my opinion, minor changes to a champion are much better than suddenly making a champion super strong just because you wanted to see the champion more. I like the change.
Minor changes to champs that severely underperform in every role and bigger changes to champs that are basicly balanced. I smell skins and politics.
: Its still a pretty decent buff. It makes him better in teamfights, makes it easier to clear/push waves, and contributes to his theme of "thunder-bear".
It's a shit buff no matter how you look at it. Riot seems to have decided that Volibear has to stay in the gutter, champs that are considerably better off, some are even fucking balanced, are getting REAL buffs, but Voli stays the same, nothing but shit laner that can't played against anything that he doesn't straight up counter. And an invade voulnerable jungler with shit clear speed untill he can afford a 2625 gold item. This buff does nothing for him in the areas where he suffers the most and doesn't do much for him where he's already (supposedly) good (skirmishes).
: Riot, if you want Rengar to deal less damage EARLY game, why are you nerfing his late game?
Because Riots policy seems to always be: When there is an issue, adress something elese. Lee Sins ult has too low cd? Buff ult damage. Garen is too easely kited? Nerf his Q. Teemo is Teemo? Teemo is Teemo. Jebaited Urgot requires too much work for what he bring to the table? Urgot. Kreygasm Tanks doing bad in jungle? Buff Lee Sin. Assassins doing good in jungle? Buff Lee Sin. People can't stand Rengar facerolling jungle? Buff Lee Sin. etc etc etc It would be satirical if it weren't pretty true.
Traunt (NA)
: How can you even call this game competitive?
It's pretty damn clear to me that there is nothing competitive about this game outside of the pro scene (where the game is played as intended) and in a sense one could claim that even that isn't very competitive compared to true competitive sports. It's ranking system is a complete joke and far closer related to the ranking system of chess (a 1v1 game/sport) than it is to actuall team sports which are completely based on league standings and not some invisible elo wannabe mumbo jumbo (MMR). Have you ever seen a baseball game where pro's, big leaguers and juniors mix in a "competitive" match? Me neither and it won't happen because it would be a complete clown fiesta, yet league has a ranking/matchmaking system that does exacly that and Riot has the gauls to call "competitive". Jebaited Jebaited Jebaited Jebaited Jebaited In a respectable sport like soccer or baseball lower league players has to best the best in their leagues for chance to take spots of the worst performing in the league above and progress from there, as it should be, fair, just and direct. No BS, no mumbo-jumbo. I LoL, lower league and higher league players can come into your ranked matches and completely muck them up. Fanbois will say that this happens to everyone and is thus fair. It's even fair if it happens more to some than others because "chance" or the nicer word they use for it: "variance". They have no evidene ofc because Riot keeps all stastics, again, does any other respectable sport hide statistics? The whole idea of hiding any statistics is completely laughable. But as Riot/Tencent are THE monopoly of the game, ofc, profit also becomes a factor. Have you ever heard about any other respected sport where chance is a factor? Jebaited Jebaited Jebaited Jebaited Jebaited Such competitive. {{sticker:zombie-brand-clap}} Lol. Just LoL. The hint is in the name of the game. E-sports will never be puplicly accepted as real sports, not with these kind of matchmaking/balancing/ranking systems at least. Nerds, fanbois and right-click warriors can say what they want, they can't change that. /End rant
: Matchmaking is broken
What surprises me more is that matchmaking has been broken forever and it's taken so long for people to finally start objecting to it.
: > [{quoted}](name=SlaktarTasken,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=olYxF8q3,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2017-04-04T01:11:58.590+0000) > > I find her ability to cross ~1/6 of the map in the blink of an eye on a basic ability considerably more disturbing than anything else in her kit. A blink of an eye? That thing is telegraphed as hell. First she shoots the rope, then it hits a wall at max range (rope has considerable travel time), then she dashes to the wall fairly quickly, then she shoots off fairly quickly, with travel time. It's not in a blink of an eye. It also requires there to be an enemy.
Travel time doesn't really affect the use of an ability unless you can instantly deny it's usage, for instance, during a collapse. So considering the vast distance she can travel using that ability in comparision to time it takes, yes I think it's fair to basicly call it the blink of an eye.
: From Bronze to Gold pretty much seems like complete RNG as to whether you win or lose.
I believe it becomes RNG because gap in skill isn't huge and experience the same thing when trying to bust into plat. As a high gold player I found bronze5 to gold a fairly simple process though a long walk, this was after the S6 resets. But I can admit that some games were extremely wild and chaotic and sometimes teammates fucked up so badly even I who was 2 league's above in skill couldn't carry them. So I can see how it becomes problematic for players who are better but not that much better. As early mentioned, I face the same issue trying to get into plat. I beat bronze and silver and entered gold with an 80%+ winrate. But somehow I just can't seem to enter plat. Even when I'm sporting high winrates in high gold I just never seem to be able to catch that lucky break during plat promos to get me through and I've been there countless times. Out of all plat promo matches I've had a free carry in one, literally, just one, out of all of them and they were many. The vast majority had wildly unballanced teams and they somehow always felt extremely stacked against me, not in the play with plat vs plat way (isn't that how it's supposed to work btw?), but rather in the play with unrankeds, silvers, low golds and occational tanking plat 5's vs teams riddled with well performing low-mid and occational high plats. Ugh, bad memories just thinking about it. No thanks I think I've had enough of ResidentSleeper.
: Matchmaking is broken
I think we should learn to stop referring to our teammates as terrible because it diverges from the point and doesn't really further the discussion. Instead we should focus on the problematics with sloppy matchmaking allowing for wildly unballanced teams. Also, they only seem terrible because their opponents simply are better, but if you'd match them against players that are inferior they might come off as considerably more skilled and better. So yet again, doesn't really serve a point. As for the variance of matchmaking, which just seems to get wilder and wilder. Some claim that it will spread evenly to everyone, I don't agree because I've seen more than one player consistently perform bad, some evern trolling at times yet get carried far beyond where they should be even without premades while others perform well and put effort into improving, doing so objectively without ever seeming to be able to catch that break they need to climb. I thoroughly believe some unlucky people are permanently on the recieving end for whatever reason, call it bad luck if you want, that would never be allowed in any other respectable sport and it really isn't suitable for a an e-sport trying to make a name for itself.
: Remember that its an ability that can be used Offensively (Going in for that stun) or Defensively (Getting out of range or Gtfo'ing) with a considerable cooldown. Unlike Talon which can hop all terrain with no cooldown on use, just a cooldown on the wall itself (which makes his decisions important). Talon has more mobility in one ability with no cooldown than Camille does on her hookshot which has one.
Perhaps so, but just because Talon has a cancerous walljump doesn't mean I think Camilles mobility is any less gross. And to Talons defense, he actually needs a wall for his stuff to work. I think this whole mobility race with newer released and reworked kits getting extremer and extremer when compared to old ones is problematic because it doesn't seem to have an end in sight. Perhaps that's fresh and fun for many, but I don't personally like it. Not saying the game should adapt to me, just voicing my opinion.
: To be fair consistently getting dumpstered by the best of the best would make you learn much faster than playing against people of similar skill as you.
By what reasoning and logic? If that was true, why don't fotball training consist of higher ranking players whopping junior players? Why don't pro basketball players faceroll high schoolers? Obviously, pro players don't have the time to be facerolling juniors twentyfour-seven since they would gain little from it, but surely such matches would sometimes be arranged if there was any benefit to it. I personally believe close matches teaches the most because it becomes easier to gauge which plays/moves lead to victory or defeat. That goes both for losing/winning in lane and losing/winning the game. I personally can't see how getting facerolled teaches anything, and even if it did, the lesson is generally lost in frustration. So please do explain because I've seen this "claim" quite a few times but I've never seen anyone back it up.
: > [{quoted}](name=gH god,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=olYxF8q3,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-04-03T21:39:17.870+0000) > > camille is sure amazing > ivern is sure amazing > leblanc rework is sure amazing > > we don't need LCS to show us how broken those 3 are > > leblanc got gutted and now sitting at 44% win rate, she had one of the worst rework ever that cornered her around a no counterplay chain. Basically if you got hit you died, "but riot why aren't you reducing the leash range?" "that would make her not be a kiting mage"-fizz enthousiast > > Camille is going to be nerfed again, and then will rot in oblivion for a year. Her kit is cancer so it doesn't matter, she's irelia with j4 ult > > Ivern... Ivern lul, the dude sitting at 58% win rate, preventing melees from moving, can counterjungle without you able to do anything about it, and has a busted low cd shield Change the fucking ult, the rest of her kit is fine. Make it not let teammates in and do a Veigar stun to any enemies who try entering, so it isn't broken in competitive, still useful in lane/1v1, and doesn't troll her own team in teamfights, and more useful in 1v2+.
I find her ability to cross ~1/6 of the map in the blink of an eye on a basic ability considerably more disturbing than anything else in her kit.
: Is it just me, or are all of the new releases/reworks amazing?
Yes, they are amazing, they are so amazing sometimes that they are simply too amazing. {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}}
Moooose3 (NA)
: No, quite the opposite some games you just can't win. Doesn't mean it's always your team's fault tho.
Ofc not, but you seem to be missing the point. The main complaint isn't about being placed with crappy teams. The main complaint is about sloppy matchmaking allowing wildly unballanced matches from the start. Believe it or not, it allows for some people to be on the receiving end, endlessly. Playing matches they neither enjoy or learn anything from. As for matches themselves. I don't care if I lose if I've had a close game, those games are the most fun, win or lose AND in my belief, the ones you learn the most from since it's easier to clearly gauge what plays/moves made you win or lose. I don't even think facerolling is fun or fullfilling, and I sure as don't feel like I learn alot from them since they are stomps from the get-go and that the path of least resistance leads to nothing. I always honor everyone after a close non toxic match because it generally feels like everyone has done their best and it could have gone any way, in that sense, no one is truely a loser since everyone has probably learned something no matter how small. I must admit that I think I would do much better and develope quicker in an environment where matches/matchups/players are close however, so maybe I'm biased? Regardless, how often do I get close matches? 1/20 at best and even that number may be a gross exagaration. Maybe you don't experience it because the variation in skill is much smaller where you are. But that is how I feel and I wish you high elo people would stop using yourselves as the measuring stock for every scenario. We don't claim full understanding of your elos, so it's odd to see you claiming full understanding of ours when your stays here are brief at worst and you walk the path of least resistance when here. Regardless of wether Riot intends to do anything about it, an anouncement from them would be nice.
: Matchmaking (constructive discussion)
I would love a match making system fully based on ranks/league standings opposed to some invisible mumbo jumbo like MMR. Just about any respected sport in the world has that formula and there is a reason why they don't change it. Odd that a team based game has a ranking system more related to chess ( a 1v1 game/sport) than it is to real team sports. Best the best of your league for a chance to take the spots of the lowest in the league above, that's how it should be. Not lower league players and higher league players consistently mucking sh*t up in wildly unbalanced matches. I don't care about Qtimes, I'd take a half an hour wait over a fast but stupidly unfair matches any day. If ranked isn't supposed to be taken seriously, how can one take the game seriously? You learn the most from the closest games since those are the ones where it is easy to gauge what little moves actually made you win/lose. High elo narcisist that oppose this and say that best way of learning is by getting facerolled by said high elo players are full of themselves. I don't give a rats rectum if your diamond mule has to put in some work to boost you by getting his smurf to the exact league where you are or if you're a mule that wants boost some lower ranked player with little obstruction, I don't care if casual tears will flow. I want fair and competitive matches and the current system doesn't give me that even remotely close to often enough. If something like that would happen, I'd definately consider playing ranked again and buying RP. I only speak for myself, that's my 5 cents.
MysterQ (NA)
: Fix low Elo, our queue times are already super short and we are a large percentage of the players. It makes no sense for us to have this convoluted system.
Indeed, most pro streamers and promoters get a free pass to plat 1? anyway.
: List of champs who need nerfs ASAP
Surprise, surprise. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}}
: Can we all agree that Bork is overtuned right now?
Several posters claimed that Bork would have been fine if it was buffed at half the value. Heck, some even claimed just upping the %health damage by 1%% and adding 5 AD would have made the item considerably more attractive. Ofc, small buffs wouldn't just cut it right? Gotta do the dirty and bust it one shot. Sometimes I wonder if Riot enjoys pissing their playerbase off.
: > [{quoted}](name=Mellark,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=stQRIlNI,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2017-04-03T14:58:58.479+0000) > > Oh come on now. > > That only exists in an ideal scenario. You can't be that naive to think that every game has two teams of exactly equal average MMR with each team member also having exactly equal MMR. Not to mention the flaws with the system where you could have high variance MMR teams vs clustered MMR teams. Take the following example > > Team 1: > Member A: MMR = 3 > Member B: MMR = 6 > Member C: MMR = 9 > Member D: MMR = 12 > Member E: MMR = 15 > Avg MMR = 9 > > Team 2: > Member A: MMR = 7 > Member B: MMR = 8 > Member C: MMR = 9 > Member D: MMR = 9 > Member E: MMR = 12 > Avg MMR = 9 > > Member A in Team 1 is definitely experiencing a problem. Why is he matched in a game with MMR's and ranks higher than him. > Member E in Team 1 is experiencing an opposite problem where he's questioning why he's put on a team with 2 shitty players (Member A&B) vs. a team with solid players. > > I'm not going to discuss every member's point of view, but just because you have MMR X does not mean your teams average MMR is also X. > > In this scenario Team 2 should win the game. They should have 2 easy matchups, 1 maybe 2 even matchups, and 1 hard matchup. And yet, both teams have the exact same average MMR. Here lies the problem. http://memes.ucoz.com/_nw/21/00708339.jpg Or with less pithy internet speak: That's complete bullshit because people with twice the MMR are not matched together much less people with **FIVE TIMES the MMR of another**. If you actually looked at numbers you would see that there are differences, but not more then a couple bad days of ranked. Half of this "bad matchmaking" complaining, certainly the majority of threads I have seen that bring this up, is some guy starts looking for reasons why he couldn't possibly have had any part in why he lost. And then he starts complaining about the ranked borders, as if those have any indication of _current_ play, or that there is, say, a plat in his game while being completely and willfully ignorant of the fact that said player is Plat 5 and losing the majority of his games, and is losing even when matched with players multiple divisions below him and it is just indicative of how strong demotion prevention is. It's the same damn excuses as always, just phrased differently.
you are completely missing the point and if you don't think the difference between silvers and plats is large something is wrong with you.
: Players are matched and placed based on skill level, not rank. What's interesting is that you believe someone in bronze elo will ever face a plat or gold smurf in his life. They're going to place at least mid silver and never be seen by bronze. Anyone in bronze who claims to be a smurf is 1. Playing on someone else's account or 2. Having a good game. It takes work to be placed below silver IV. If the system sees the new player is good at the game, he'll be placed with people near his level. I've seen people new to ranked in mid-gold elo games. They didn't necessarily carry or do super well, but they weren't just burdens either. When people complain about elo hell in this way, they ARE complaining about their teams. About how they're not as good as the enemy team. Well, guess what, your mmr says that you are equally matched, so you are. The concept of good games and bad games seems to not reach the boards memebers' minds. If we're just talking about normals where mmr is sometimes weird, who actually gives a shit?
Horsecrap, I went straight to bronze 5 after the S6 reset and I'm quite sure I made hundreds of silver/bronze players miserable before I got to gold.
: The amount of games you have to play in order to actually climb can be pretty demotivating too. "Yeah great I got from bronze V to gold I with 86% win rate on this account, getting plat should be a breeze!" - insert rito matchmaking - your opponents are now plat III where you probably belong while your teammates are gold III to compensate! Enjoy a 40% win rate until your mmr drops to the league you're at so you can climb again! But wait, there's more! Let's throw in a free 6 troll games in a row! You're welcome! XDD On a more serious note, given enough time ofc you will climb etc. But with emphasis on time.
G0d I feel you so hard on this post it actually hurts. This summerizes my ranked life perfectly. This is the exact reason why I quite ranked during S6. Stormed from bronze (who cares if you win 9/10 placements after a rank reset right) to high gold, just to get gimped by unranked, silvers, low golds teammates vs teams litterered with plats and if there's any gold in there you can be sure they are pretty decent. Like, how the fk does on carry silvers against plat unless at least a being a diamond beast? Maybe if I had the time play endlessly to kill variance it maybe wouldn't be a problem. But alas I don't. So fuck ranked. :)
: My big 'elo hell' lately is when your MMR gets out of whack for about... two months. During this time, you lose more LP for a loss (it was 21-22, just dropped to 20 last night) than you'd get for a win (16-17, now back up to 18). At that point, you can't climb without a 60% or better win rate.
My elo hell is when my winrate goes so high I can no longer win the matches since every team I get will basicly lose by default if I don't carry hard since im designated balancing lever. It wouldn't matter if I had the time to play all day every day to kill variance. Alas I don't. So I don't bother with ranked anymore.
Kilanost (NA)
: The biggest problem happened with the mmr/rank reset at the beginning of the season. I literally just figured out how to play this game and was kicking ass at the end of last season after i figured some shit out. Was playing mostly mid-high gold as S2. Then the reset happened and BOOM i was B1. Then I started looking at my friends list under the group "Norms Only" I made for friendly people who are just terrible. They're B1/B2/B3 from their promos too. Difference was that I played against significantly higher ranked people, lost the same amount of games, but got demoted way further than they did. As a result, I'm playing games with people who don't know how to lane/cs/not feed/rotate/ward/take objectives/etc to an extent that literally reminds me of my skill level when I was asking people how I sell my trinket so I can put another item in that slot (lol man i knew nothing). The much bigger issue with ranked though is how the skill levels are distributed across the player population. For example: If you consider for a moment that Silver 5 makes you roughly average in your rank among the player base of this game. We would say it is unfair that a Silver 5 player gets matched into a game with diamond players. I don't think anyone would disagree with that. That represents a skill difference that spans roughly 50% of the player base. Thats HUGE. But somehow, its cool for that same silver 5 player to get thrown into games with a B4. That still spans almost 50% of the player base. But somehow that is an ok way to match teams by riot's standards. If Riot is going to essentially cram 50% of its player base into Bronze, they need to make bronze 10-15 divisions. Make bonuses for win streaks for the first 10 Bronze divisions very high so cream will float. Then they get to the bronze divisions that actually play with Silver players. There is just entirely too much variation in skill at the bronze 5 to low silver ranks. Hell I might even be happy when I look on the boards and see someone saying "YAY finally out of bronze after 3 years" instead of worrying that that asshole is going to get put on my team sometime in the near future with an mmr weighting that does not correspond to his/her ability. The difference last season when I started playing with High silver/low gold was HUGE. It may not seem it to the token high elo guy who is about to flame this post. Its the difference between people who know they lost lane at 2 deaths and people who still can't admit they lost lane after 8 deaths. Its the difference between the bot lane that loses turret and stays and farms bot while mid is getting seiged and a botlane that rotates with their lane. Its the difference between getting backup in your jungle for a gank. Getting wards on baron. Good positioning. The ability to provide DPS reliably in team fights. Good wave management. pings. I mean I could go on... This is where the high elo guy comes in and says his obnoxious piece about how they smurfed and flew out of bronze/silver. Thats great, and thats why you're in diamond. you are literally the 1% playing with/against people that occupy the bottom 50%. But if you're someone who can consistently play at a low gold level and are matched with people asking you how they sell their trinkets, It becomes significantly harder to carry those games than it would be if my skill level were the top 1%. So, that argument doesn't fly.
Honestly, I wouldn't know about this seasons rank reset. We actually had one? Because I got fed up with ranked during season 6 and left it. The only thing I truely recall is extremely volatile matchmaking and endlessly being on the recieving end. Even then, people weren't complaining as much as they are now so I could almost conclude it has gotten worse. In that case, or maybe people were just mesmerized with NCS/DQ? Beats me. I honestly agree with every word you're writing and I've often felt alike if not the same. I actually got placed in B5 after the season 6 reset, I won't say I breezed up to gold, it took a little time since it was a long walk. Since I've been to bronze I know exacly what you're talking about when you say people don't have a clue what they are doing, because even though I'm only a golder it was something I could abuse hard, just about every match and hardly lost any games B5-G5 at all, but if ones skill is not as far appart I can see how those things can become a major issue. In the same way I feel like I'm wearing an anchor when I have to play against plats with a team riddles with silvers - not trying to offend just confirming the point. Ironically, I instantly missed bronze and silver once I did get back to gold, since that was the only place I felt I could play anything and do fwell, once I reached gold that was more or less gone. (Now some high elo dude will probably as well say anything is playable in gold) and they're right, but they forget that it's because of a huge disrepancy in skill that it's possible, they pressume their own position even when discussing others and that's the problem, that's why all they produce are: "Git guuds" and you will rarely see any better advice from them. (Yes I know all high elo players aren't like this but a huge ammount of them are without a doubt). My respons to that is: If you can win playing anything in gold or lower/higher whatever, good for you, now shut the fuck up. I think what we have to realise is that these people can't relate to our issues because they are simply somewhere else. Regardless, you seem to have great game knowledge, just the understanding that the game is about objectives is pretty rare, even up to high gold. So I'm hopefull you'll climb. edit: They will also often say that being stomped is the best way of learning, I think this is utter complete horshit they spew to justify feeding their egos as if they're doing something good when stomping lower elo players in basicly free win matches. Imo, the games you learn the most from are the games that are truely close, since it becomes that much easier to gauge the little moves that lead either to victory or defeat. So Riot please, for the love of the game. DO SOMETHING!
: > [{quoted}](name=Darkest Death,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sh7bHQ6v,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-04-03T12:13:20.572+0000) > > Yeah true. I just hate to play against plat as a silver. I don't even care if the enemy gold duos with a plat. If this way, just fix it so plats and silvers can't end up in one game and so on. For sure the queue might be just a bit longer but it's for the sake of balance. When I'm getting out of silver then I'm proving that I can start playing in gold elo, not platinum. This one thing is the biggest issue imo. Not to mention how autofill makes it a lot worse. If there was a Plat in your game, their mmr must have been very low. I was Plat 5 about to fall to Gold and played against a few Silver 1s. But that's because it was my MMR, not the Silver players. I did win most of the games matched against them, and I can see how unfair that would be, but if my mmr is low Gold/Silver level, I should not be placed with other plats until (which I did) fix it.
For plats crushing lower elo games. It's not always truethat they are tanking, or at least it wasn't back in season 6 seeing as one of those extreme matchmaking games was the final straw that made me quit ranked entirely. My team, 1 mid silver, 1 high silver, 1 low gold, 1 plat 5 with tanked winrates. Enemy team full plat with 1 well performing high gold. I was gold 3, ~ 70% winrate, fairly pretty fresch out of placement matches, three members on my team had ~50% winrate, Our plat had tanked to like 45% ish, but he/she had fairly few games played. The other gold on my team was premade with one of the silvers, they had less than 5 games together with 3 losses (tags). Opposing team had a plat premade (tags) (plat 3 + plat 4) both of them 60%+ winrate, plat 3 was a S5 diamond, wicked kda and over 20 games together of which they had won almost every. The one gold they had was 53%+, the other plats (5-4) were ~50%. Winrate avarage was extremely in the opposing teams favour and that's not even considering my low ammount of games compared to those premade plats and their considerably higher number of games played. I was outranked by every single member of the opposing team and that's being the balancing lever; best performing player on my team. This is probably one of the most extreme cases I've ever experienced, but just about every game I experienced on that account had the same formula and I never once in any single game, from promos till I decided to quit ranked, had the mmr/team/rank advantage, not one, single, time. On the contrary I was regularly facing plat riddled teams with with weakly performing unranked/silver-low gold team members, even during placement matches, I kid you not. And yes, I check every match I play. The hinstory's most shortlived one trick acc: GlockHammer, EUNE. So yeah, imo, ranked is utterly busted, maybe I'm just extremely unlucky, but there's just so much "bad luck" one can take, maybe I just truely suck. I remember the ranked system saying I was going to get an LP boost based on my perfomance in placements (that was a first), then pits me into just about impossible to win matches. Hur-durr, working as intended I see. I might get my gold bagdes, easy peasy, progressing beyond that? Seems impossible, the closer I get, the better I get, the harder and more unfair the matches get and that's without me moving up the ladder. I don't see the point any longer. Or as early mentioned, maybe I just suck ass and don't really improve, so just as well. Ergo: Fuck ranked. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
Kilanost (NA)
: I just think its funny that if you do well, you're supposed to climb out of your current rank. However when you start doing well, they start placing you in games full of people 4-5+ divisions above you. Common sense tells me that if you're supposed to climb out of a given rank, you should be judged on your success against that rank and not the one 5 divisions above you. Just my 2 cents on the subject.
That sounds like a wet dream to me and if it actually worked that way for me I'd say it's working as intended. When I do well I get to play AGAINST higher ranked players but WITH lower ranked teams. So much fun when you're whole team is full silver to low gold, and you, a gold 3 70% winrate are going against a full team of plats some outranking you by a full leauge and almost on par with your own winrate. Why not also toss in very experienced premades as the best performing pair as well. I kid you not. Maybe I'm mega unlucky, but that's how it's always been, I'm rather super surprised when I actually get fairly balanced games when doing well, because it just about never happens. Edit, your suggestion isn't bad though, actually it would be great because that is just about how any respectable sport in the world works. Beat the people in a league for a chance to take on the higher league, as opposed to people in lower or higher leagues consistently fucking up ones games, I put it that way because I've pretty much always been on the receiving end. Yes, I check just about every match I play.
: > [{quoted}](name=Cloud273,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dntFWJV9,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-04-02T08:18:17.172+0000) > > Can someone please explain to me why Fizz needed a buff? Fizz is complete cancer and has ZERO counterplay. The only thing he should ever receive is nerfs (as many as possible). Welp, shitposting is still fun I see. At the absolute minimum he has a skillshot with his ult- which has counterplay. Regardless of the rest of his kit- he has counterplay in that. He has counterplay with other parts of his kit but I can shut you down with just that. Ult is a skillshot. Skillshots have counterplay.
I have played fizz more a good deal of times, I don't consider myself a master at skillshots but I've only ever missed a fizz ult ONCE. Sure, it's a skillshot, but that doesn't mean it's anywhere near remotely hard to land, it has a large hitbox, fairly fast projectile speed and will be picked up if you cut anyone off with it. Face it, Fizz was perfectly fine and practically no one, neither his mains or haters were bitching about him. Somehow that status quo just won't do, sometime I think Riot likes to piss the community off.
Cloud273 (NA)
: The recent buff to Fizz was literally the dumbest thing I've ever seen
He was completely fine before the buffs and no one was complaining, can't have it like that though now can we. Lol, like, srsly, I need to quit this game. Riot is completely hopeless.
Moooose3 (NA)
: First off, I'm not plat. Moooose2 is my main but that's besides the point. Realized after reading the rest of it my rank doesn't matter lol. I have experienced horrible teams. I've just carried most of them by playing champs that get others ahead and haul them to a victory such as thresh. Idk I'm not saying in every case teams aren't holding players back, but I know teams definitely aren't holding players back all the time either. It's somewhere in the middle, and I believe it balances out. IF you play enough games statistically your rank will eventually fall to where you deserve to be at.
Yeahyeah, you're fantastic and every game is carryable. {{sticker:zombie-brand-clap}}
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