: Lol this guy quit because of lore...
Ok... So, correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm trying to see your point of view from your rather short comment. So you can't imagine someone using the background of a game to enhance his experience? To feel betrayed when his favorite character gets unceremoniously removed? You're making fun of me because you don't understand me?
: More than happy to talk about anything, even the sore subjects.
Apparently this Q&A was a thing. I'd just like to say that I do not think Riot cares about characters. Well, not about all. Else they would've done something about the fact that they completely removed a champion from the game. [It's too late now.](http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/89fW1fZU-removal-of-characters) It's been too long and over these years my patience has finally worn out and I stopped caring about Riots lore. Which saddens me greatly. It's just that I _still_ do not understand why Riot would do such a thing.
Rioter Comments
Mirross (NA)
: Hextech Crafting and Loot Q&A
This system promotes someone, anyone, in your premade getting an S. Would it promote people intentionally giving kills/farm/protection to someone, so that instead of both having an A, one would have an S? Only useful if you have keys, though.
Mirross (NA)
: Hextech Crafting and Loot Q&A
Why do keys exist? I mean, why did you decide to have chests and also needing keys to unlock them? Wouldn't just having chests be simpler.
: > [{quoted}](name=KING OF MASKS,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=7pyGKKN7,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-01-06T19:16:50.380+0000) > > He's wearing a mask. > > I dunno about you guys but I'm pretty excited about that. So, as the King of Masks, does that mean that you hold dominion over people with masks, or only the masks themselves? Also, do you happen to know (off the ~~top~~ front of your head) how many champs and skins have masks? I could go through and check myself, but I wondered if you knew already ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VT2R1k0t9Xc
: {{champion:157}} {{item:3035}} Bitch Plz 90%+ armor pen
Actually, Yasuo ult+Lord Dominiks is 70% bonus-armor penetration. Multiplicative stacking: 1-0.5*0.6=0.7
: Yeah it is from back then... I also think its far enough back when unique passives stacked as well since he does have about 6240 Mana with 5 {{item:3040}} and a {{item:3089}}.
The mana from seraph's is not unique. Only the active and 3% mana to ap conversion are unique.
Saixos (EUW)
: Riot should add monthly status cards
False reports aren't binary. It's not that a report is either false or true. Also, this update would make me scared. Why would I need a status card monthly? Is the system that harsh? Really, I don't need such a thing, I don't even want it. I'm not toxic, I just play the game. I don't care what happens to toxic people, as long as the community overall gets less toxic I'm happy. And it is getting less toxic, has been over the years too.
woobeee (NA)
: I wish Lee Sin's ultimate was used more as a tactical playmaking move.
Lee Sin always feels too good earlygame: * * He can always decide not to fight. * He can usually decide to fight. * He has high earlygame damage. Which basically means he shouldn't ever die, but he can kill. Then on later in the game: * He has great utility with his ultimate. * He has decent utility with his E (decaying 4s 60% slow at max rank) * He has decent damage all game with his ultimate and second Q %health mechanics. Which means that he is still solid midgame and not entirely useless lategame. The only reason Lee is balanced is because he falls off. Personally I find his safety boring to play against.
: But again..old Trundle had no story afterwards. He had no reason to fight. He found out that he can save his people by giving the curse back, but decides to let them die cause they were jerks to him and stay in the League of Legend. Now that the League of Legend is no more: What would the story of old Trundle be now?
It'd be a story of a tribeless troll, a wanderer (plenty of those in the new lore anyway). A lost cynical person looking for a new place to belong.
Quepha (NA)
: "We want to tell more stories and the old Trundle's story was finished"
There is no proper justification for removing Trundle other than that it has been done. Riot does not care about their old lore and their old characters, they'll happily retcon everything they dislike. They don't care that some of us do care. They're making a new world with new characters. They'll do this their way and then show us the result, assuming we'll like it. And there will be people that like it. Issue is, in five years they might just abandon their new world _again,_ unfinished as it will be. Riot has lost my trust, has done _nothing_ to regain it. They've had ample time to realise they've made a mistake, admit it and to fix it, or announce they're fixing it otherwise. I've stopped caring about Riot and their lore as a result. Any investment I'd make in Riots lore, of time or emotions, would just be thrown away carelessly by Riot. Because that's exactly what they've done already. Twice.
: [FAQ] Legendary Snowball - December 23rd - January 7th
>If you gift a Legendary Snowball, the person you're sending it to will **also **receive the Mystery Gift. I suppose this means that _only_ the person you're sending it to receives a mystery gift, not the both of you?
Meddler (NA)
: 800 units, so it's not a great choice in a duo lane, but should get some use in team fights if you're diving at least a moderate distance in front of your team.
it seems a pretty great choice for sololanes. Does it increase damage to non-champions? If so, then cunning tier one is a hard choice for junglers.
: [INTRO] Greg “Riot Ghostcrawler” Street - Game Design Director
Often I wonder: What is Riots vision of a tank? What should a tank do, what should a tank build? *** Long version (you can skip this if you've little time): Tanks are often associated with soaking damage and taking aggro (holy trinity mmorpg stuff). You'd expect these to build full health/resistances, perhaps some cdr to taunt more. In League quite some seem to be about initiating then trying their hardest to not be ignored while having already done most of their job. (Amumu, Malphite) For this purpose, tankiness isn't actually all that important. If they live long enough to initiate, most of their job is done. This results in ap Amumu/Malphite builds. To support this, the amount of scaling stats marksmen have (as/ad/crit/armor pen) and how their damage pattern is static plotted over combat time (at any point in time they'll deal X damage regardless of time of marksman or tank already spent in combat), it makes a tanks lategame fantasy of actually being able to tank damage for more than a couple of seconds rather binary, reinforced by the fact the tank has to buy two different resistance types. Either tank itemization is really good and they're midgame unkillable, or the adc just blatantly outscales them lategame due to having a different amount of scalars. Some more in detail questions: * So is one allowed to have a lategame fantasy of being tanky in League, or is this considered bad for game health? * Is a tank in League an initiator rather than the classic damage soak? * Does the current itemization for both tankiness and marksmen, which are inherently linked, support the previous answers? * Personally, I've been thinking perhaps marksman damage should ramp up over the course of a fight, exactly like fervor of battle. Has Riot considered ramping damage or tankiness that ramps down. (Steraks Gage kind of fills this gap, but is more a juggernaut item.)
: Hey There ExoNautic! We usually let folks explain what it is they do in their intro once the thread is live. Either way though, thank you for the feedback!
Might want to do that ahead of time so people can think of relevant questions ahead of time. Or you don't because you've too many questions anyway.
Xilixer (NA)
: {{champion:161}} laser beam gives no F's
: Windwall is such a poorly made ability with no reasoning behind what goes through it or not.
If it's a non-creature object with a travel speed, then it's a projectile. Wind wall/Unbreakable block projectiles. The only exceptions are projectiles that go off-screen and Nautilus ultimate.
: I'm not going to lie. I hate the new trinkets
It's ironic. First trinkers were added so not everyone (support) needed to spend all their gold into vision. Now the trinkets are nerfed horribly, so everyone ought to always have a pink ward on the map.
CatSith (NA)
: @Riot PETITION to allow ground base "projectiles" to bypass windwall.
So these ground-based projectiles should also be unable to affect any flying champions, ever? What about jumping champions? How about making Lee Sin blind immune. Make Sona unable to attack when silenced. Make Zyra immune to being rooted. Why wouldn't a wind wall be able to interact with the ground in any way? Heck, what is a ground-based projectile? Viktor aftershock, but not laser? Diana's crescent strike? Evelynn's hate spike? Kog'Maw void ooze? Nami tidal wave? Rek'Sai prey seeker? Varus chain of corruption? Why not make Sona ult also ignore wind wall, I mean, how would a wind wall block sound? It's not like things interact. How about Rek'Sai ignore all non-ground-based projectiles when burrowed? Game mechanics logic makes sense, is clear and is consistent. You aim to make the game unclear and inconstent. A game where one needs to learn or even guess how things interact, rather than being able to reason it. >Why? because of clarity of game play. Your suggestion is the opposite of clarity of gameplay.
GigglesO (NA)
: Don't worry thresh's auto attack isn't a projectile, but poppy's ulti is. One is allowed to play thematically, but the other is not. #RiotLogic
If it's a non-unit with travel speed and direction, then it's a projectile. Thresh' autoattacks lack travel speed. They're not projectiles.
Durzaka (NA)
: The screenshots were taken from the exact same angle. The indicator right on the edge of the monster (monster just outside) to see if it would hit beyond the indicator. It absolutely does not.
: Yasuo Windwall Block Poppy Ultimate doesn't make SENSE!
You can blind Lee Sin. You can silence Sona. She can still autoattack. Corki buys boots. He becomes faster. Caitlyn headshots people. It hurts just a bit more. Anivia is slowed by glacial fissure. Real world logic does not apply to this game. Use mechanics logic. Poppy ultimate is an object that is not a creature with a travel speed and direction. It's a projectile.
: > Durzaka (NA) > > Ok, people here have serious confirmation bias, with literally no support. > > Look at this shit, and tell me if you think the hitbox still doesnt match the Animation. > > http://media.lolusercontent.com/api/embedly/1/image/resize?url=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FPSyPsPp.jpg%3Ffb&key=a45e967db0914c7fb472fd4381e6c85b&width=150 > > If her Q indicator doesnt match her hitbox, it is by an insignificant amount (MAYBE 20 units, and that is pushing it. >
From his post, it seems like that should hit indeed. The edge of the tentacle indicator is touching the edge of the gromp hitbox. http://imgur.com/a/3W8Yi
Durzaka (NA)
: Ok, people here have serious confirmation bias, with literally no support. Look at this shit, and tell me if you think the hitbox still doesnt match the Animation. http://imgur.com/a/3W8Yi If her Q indicator doesnt match her hitbox, it is by an insignificant amount (MAYBE 20 units, and that is pushing it.
That looks like it should hit. The edge of the tentacle indicator is touching the edge of the gromp hitbox.
ZED G0D (NA)
: Illaoi Q hitbox is freaking massive, and does not mimic her animation
First: Remember it's edge to edge. Edge of champion to edge of ability. Second: Could you get some screenshots showing the issue? It'd help me understand the gravity of the problem to see it in action.
: Poppy Update Q&A
Do you personally think Poppy still feels like old Poppy? (personality/character-wise) Did you intend to make it feel/not feel like old Poppy? Personally I don't know. Her story seems a lot different, which is to be expected in the new Runeterra, and she may still be the no-nonsense dutiful yordle. Not a lot of reference material yet though.
PWYFF (NA)
: Incoming: Some Introductions!
No Jaredan with something like a narrative philosophy? He has been more active on the forums (yay), but I still don't know why they make/made certain decisions. I know Riot won't talk about the retcon, considering it done with the one dev blog, but how about transferring old characters to the new lore?
GreenLore (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Sneak Dog,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=XqWPOebJ,comment-id=0002000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-02T00:34:41.335+0000) > > This is the premise feeling limited. > Not having this premise is also a problem for a bunch of older champions that relied on the IoW for their story. The new champions were simply written for a different world, so obivously they wouldn't fit in the old. > The thing is that overall it simply started to feel repetitive. There were so many champs who joined to kill someone(even though they'd never be allowed to do that for real),who joined just because they were different(even though i don't see how that leads to them joining a blood sport where you kill each other over and over again),to gain a certain favor from the IoW(which would mean that they could never achieve their goals or they wouldn't have a reason to continue fighting) or just to represent their city state(which is pretty much the most solid reason) And well,the champs whose story depended on the IoW could be adjusted to fit the new lore without changing their background that much. Kayle and morgana could still have their war in their own world Lee sin could have been a mage whose power malfunctioned Orianna died due to something else(the robotic one can fight,so that she won't die a second time) Jax could be still the champion of a tournament/arena Not saying these lores will turn out like this,but its not like these story aspects were only possible thanks to the league... > Wait, all characters having one thing in common to, in the end, tell one big story is a bad thing? Isn't that just a style of storytelling? > Isn't that also not just the premise feeling limited? But they don't tell a single story. There are over a hundred champions in the game and the storys mainly focus on the champions,not the IoW.
>And well,the champs whose story depended on the IoW could be adjusted to fit the new lore without changing their background that much. A lot of the stories were only so good because of the league. Jax just being king of some local tournament, Kayle asking help from just a random mage and Morgana some (probably other) random mage, Cho'Gath corrupting some random mages, those stories are not as strong. They'll just get a different story. That's fine. the new champions would've had a different story for the old world too. They might just get a new character too, but that isn't necessarily the case. When it is though, I've an issue with it. (But I think that's outside the scope of this discussion?) >The thing is that overall it simply started to feel repetitive. What you describe is exactly the premise feeling limited. It felt like it was limiting the stories Riot was telling. It didn't have to. They could've not used the IoW as conclusion of every single background story they made. But they did, so it felt limiting. >But they don't tell a single story. There are over a hundred champions in the game and the storys mainly focus on the champions,not the IoW. All the old stories were working towards them being in the IoW and being involved in the grand IoW storyline. Now they're all separate stories, connected by nothing but being in the same world. Even that is at times questionable, as Riot has insisted on making factions of the world be isolated. (A bilgerat, inhabitant of the most infamous port, might've not heard of Demacia?) *** It still boils down to the premise feeling limiting and there were non-champion characters powerful enough to be main characters. Those're the two arguments the retcon was based on.
GreenLore (EUW)
: Which just shows that the devblog is right about the summoners controlling the champion. It might not be direct mind control,but if the summoner wants the champion to make a funny little dance for him,then the champion will obey. If the summoner wants swain to just run into the enemy team without mana,then swain will obey. If I remember correctly the control of the summoner is pretty much like "the champion suddenly feels the urge to do exactly what the summoner wants,but does it their own way",which still boils down to "the summoner is the one in control"
I think this one lore is disjoint with the rest of the old lore. From memory, the JoJ explained summoner and champion melded minds and coöperated. Nocturnes lore directly opposes this notion. Other champions, like Cho'Gath, used this notion. Cho'Gath would actively corrupt summoners. Kassadin would recruit them to his cause. A lot of the champions would just talk to you. I think using a single example that may have been inconsistent with the rest of the lore isn't a great argument to retcon the entire premise. I'd retcon Nocturnes lore based on that.
GreenLore (EUW)
: It's a matter of speech to make their point clear: That the summoners were simply too strong and that is a fact. Also you are completely ignoring my first point that the summoners were indeed in control of the champ(during battle on the SR),since Nocturnes presence wouldn't make sense otherwise. And its not like those were the only reasons they mentioned. They also felt it was restricting in that they had to give every champ a reason to be in the league(and looking at some of the newer champs I can understand why this would have been a problem eventually) and that having pretty much all of the champs cramped up in one place felt like it would make the world a bit too small.
>They also felt it was restricting in that they had to give every champ a reason to be in the league(and looking at some of the newer champs I can understand why this would have been a problem eventually) This is the premise feeling limited. Not having this premise is also a problem for a bunch of older champions that relied on the IoW for their story. The new champions were simply written for a different world, so obivously they wouldn't fit in the old. >and that having pretty much all of the champs cramped up in one place felt like it would make the world a bit too small. Wait, all characters having one thing in common to, in the end, tell one big story is a bad thing? Isn't that just a style of storytelling? Isn't that also not just the premise feeling limited?
GreenLore (EUW)
: If the summoner is not in control of the champion,then that creates a plot hole with Nocturne,since Noc hates the summoners,so there is literally no reason for him to obey them(and they were afraid of killing him,so you can't say that he was scared of getting killed) Also they are of course a bit exaggerating when they talk about all-powerful summoners,its just a way of speaking to make clear that the summoners were so powerful that they restricted the whole story telling.
To your other point. >They bound him to a nexus fragment, trapping him in the physical world. As punishment for his crimes, they allowed summoners to call upon Nocturne in League matches, bending his will to the summoners he hates and creating his own personal nightmare. Nocturne is one of the few actually controlled champions. It's also quite noted that he was systematically murdering summoners while Nocturne was in his element. When taken out of his home plane, he was able to be subdued. Yes, he was controlled. I'm honestly not even sure how, as his lore is inconsistent with other pieces of the lore. There summoning is described as melding minds, which would give Nocturne good control over what he wanted to do while summoned.
GreenLore (EUW)
: If the summoner is not in control of the champion,then that creates a plot hole with Nocturne,since Noc hates the summoners,so there is literally no reason for him to obey them(and they were afraid of killing him,so you can't say that he was scared of getting killed) Also they are of course a bit exaggerating when they talk about all-powerful summoners,its just a way of speaking to make clear that the summoners were so powerful that they restricted the whole story telling.
>Also they are of course a bit exaggerating when they talk about all-powerful summoners,its just a way of speaking to make clear that the summoners were so powerful that they restricted the whole story telling. Why would they need to exaggerate? Why not just stick to the truth, tell the complete reasoning and if it's sound, then the sensible people in the community will understand. (I fear a lot will just ignore the reasoning whatever it is and look at the result alone.) The need to exaggerate is already suspicious to me. I wonder why you would exaggarate in the first place. *** There's two given arguments: The premise felt limiting and there were characters that weren't champions, but were powerful enough to be main characters. So my options are: * I don't put much stock into the dev blog and believe narrative has more arguments they just didn't communicate. * I believe that these two arguments are enough to warrant retconning anything and everything. * I'm wrong in my reasoning somewhere. I'm currently sticking to the first option.
Sharjo (EUW)
: All the more reason to learn how to utilize tools that allow for the beat down of enormous adversaries! Where your size is a detriment, look to other means, such as science or huge ass weapons to get your edge!
Exactly what I mean. They live (lived?) next to the magic-radiated jungle spawning bad things.
Ralanr (NA)
: Poppy is either really freaking dense or killing giant monsters is natural where she comes from. Also we get a look into valorian wildlife. Makes sense that people are stupid powerful when things like that exist.
Just about everything is larger than a yordle though.
GreenLore (EUW)
: And which one are you talking about?
>Furthermore, the very idea of all-powerful Summoners made Champions little more than puppets manipulated by godlike powers. Summoners were not all-powerful on the champion power scale, as shown and described. They were not puppet-mastering champions.
GreenLore (EUW)
: Yeah,mostly because it just doesn't give him the answer he wants....
There's at least one factually wrong argument for the retcon in there. Seems a valid reason to not give much credence.
Impetual (NA)
: @Riot, Some Time Has Passed. Are You Ready To Discuss Riot's Reasoning Behind The Lore Retcon?
Riot is rather reluctant about this. They released a dev blog, with some shaky reasoning (at least one argument that was plain false), and now consider it done. On top of that, narrative doesn't talk about what they do and don't retcon past the IoW. The answer seems to be _everything they dislike. _ Not a great attitude it'd seem to me. At least one champion already got removed. Though, I don't think it's fair to ask what we gained from it. The new lore hasn't even properly started. All you're going to get is that they've some more freedom in what they write and that the summoners no longer take a lot of the attention, which can now go to champions.
: i just noticed...support-tahm is also sitting at a 73%winrate for experienced players. i mean...you have to admit it´s really strange that you´d nerf unpopular champs like swain (and the current nerf is really overkill, just take dmg of his e and leave his cc alone) and quinn while the more popular outlyers that see a lot of pro play like Ryze and Tahm seems to be tolerated in their utterly broken state - even if they leave a lot less counterplay for opponents that actually now the matchups well compared to swain and quinn.
The Swain nerf was intended to define his role. He is supposed to be some draintankmage, but cc doesn't fit that identity very well. Also, welcome to preseason. Things are unbalanced. Give Riot some time to clean up the mess they created by throwing in all these big changes. The plan is that the game as a whole will be better once the mess is cleaned up. In the meanwhile, either enjoy the chaos or take a small break from League.
: The Rune Wars
It's kind of in lore limbo I'm afraid, with the retcon going on. In a nutshell, they were Runettera's magical nuclear war. The Rune Wars ruined nearly everything south of the Great Barrier. Rune magic ran rampant and it was the reason the Institute of War was created. So that the world wouldn't destroy itself with runemagic. All the League stuff just helped. Remove wars, and they can't escalate to runewars. Even now, everything south of the Great Barrier, but Bandle City, is basically magically radiated. In the jungles, abnormal creatures are the norm and evolution went all the way to eleven. Magical storms still threaten any live. Shurima is an empty desert, inhabited only by some foolhardy nomads. Some references I know: Zileans lore Skarners lore and judgement Mogron pass has a seemingly related picture on the wikia: http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/e/e2/Mogron_Pass_concept.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20101003195051
: > Tanky champions don't HAVE early game power this season, giving it to us is only going to make our mid game worse. Veteran's Scars' placement in the Resolve tree does make it accessible to more than just tank-types that are going down to Resolve keystones.
Could tanks then also get a better secondary option? If you want damage and damage, you can go resolve and cunning and you'll still get damage from your dip. If you want tankiness, you go resolve and then have 12 points dangling. Usually I go into cunning for some utility, but it still feels bad.
Rebonack (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Sneak Dog,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FTXMsyYL,comment-id=0004000000000001,timestamp=2015-11-27T11:55:22.416+0000) > > I disagree. > > Kog'maw gets 10% increased value from ad and the rather meagre on-hit damage. (2.5% per 100 ad isn't that high. you need ~120 ad to 'equal' a borks 6% current health.) > > He gets 100% increased value from on-hit effects! > You can stack on-hit items to win. Rageblade is op right now, but bork and wit's end are solid items on koggles too. > > I'd order his offence stats as on-hit, ad, as, ap, crit. 2.5% per 100 pans out to 50 extra damage against a 2000 HP target, which is where soft targets will be sitting by the time level 18 rolls around. So 100 attack damage effectively gets boosted up to 160 damage. Comparable to Draven's spinning axe DPS without having to worry about catching them. The trade-off with AD on Kog is that while it typically doesn't boost his raw DPS *quite* as much as OnHit damage does, it also augments his Ult's damage. That 0.65 ratio with a bit of AD to back it up is a death sentence for anything under 25% HP. That's why I feel AD juuuuust manages to edge out OnHit damage as most attractive on Kog. This is why Koggy's core item provides both {{item:3124}}.
However, items give up to 75, mostly 65 ad now. Whereas on-hit items are quite cheap and provide both good on-hit and as, rather than ad and crit. Not that crit is a bad stat, attack speed is just a whole lot better as it also improves your on-hit damage. I think it's an interesting question though.
hibernis (NA)
: Corrupting potion increases all damage by 10% (including TRUE DMG)
http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/bug-report/3mQGBEjA-how-to-report-a-game-bug A guide on how to submit a bug on this board.
Rebonack (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=TwinkiePro,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FTXMsyYL,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-11-27T05:23:38.941+0000) > > AD is not as useful on Kog because Of his W, which doubles his attack speed, but reduces his AD to 55%, meaning on hits are several times more effective. Flat AD is incredibly useful on Kog since he (effectively) gets 110% total AD plus 2.5% of the target's max HP per 100 AD in damage by pressing W. The bonus AD ratio on his Ult is also rather amazing. The most important offense stats on Kog are, in order, raw attack damage, OnHit damage, and attack speed. AP and Crit are gravy if they come bundled with the other three. This is why you rush Rageblade on Koggy. It provides all three of the stats he wants most. Mura is a pretty decent choice if you're running glass cannon Kog (don't run glass cannon Kog).
I disagree. Kog'maw gets 10% increased value from ad and the rather meagre on-hit damage. (2.5% per 100 ad isn't that high. you need ~120 ad to 'equal' a borks 6% current health.) He gets 100% increased value from on-hit effects! You can stack on-hit items to win. Rageblade is op right now, but bork and wit's end are solid items on koggles too. I'd order his offence stats as on-hit, ad, as, ap, crit.
: I did and it was one of the lamer bio of the old lore, in retro speck majority of the old lore was pretty dumb and to try hardy to be cheese. Also Trundle may have a little more detail about his thought, but it doesn't make his bio anymore tamer and stale than it is. I rather have something that has potential than some stale piece of shit with boring attributes.
You dislike the old and like the new Trundle. That's your opinion. That does not mean you like the rework. Do you approve of the concept of Riot removing a character and replacing it with a new one? In a more concrete example: Would you approve if Riot now removed the new Trundle and replaced it with yet another character, say a heroic troll of justice?
: I don't understand this hate for the trundle rework. Troll king trundle is 50 times better than the old one. I remeber reading his old lore and feeling like it was trying way to hard to be unique for the sake of being unique. He felt lame and one dimensional as he was just a pathetic poor smuck with skin problem. I really don't get the bitching about the new lore direction, the new lore feels much more organic than the poorly written fan fic the old Iow was. So people need to get their asses out of their nostalgia sydrom and appreciate the new thing that Riot is developing. Ps to the op; Next time actually listen to the VO before writing paragraphs of pointless rant.
Read [old Trundles judgement.](http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Trundle/Background#Previous_Lore) Also, it's not a matter of which character you like more, but a case of whether you approve of the possibility of a fleshed out character (and he was, if you also read the judgement) being completely removed and replaced for bad reasons.
: What happened to all those renditions of the old theme music?
You could get them all from the soundcloud you also linked.
Mozhu (NA)
: EVERYONE HAS THEIR OWN OPIONS You don't like her new personality but I do... nothing we say is going to change each other's minds... END OF STORY. _____________________________ Do you even play poppy to even care? whether her personality was changed... Are you even going to play her when the changes go live? If you answered No to both these questions...... Then see your way out. because the only thing you wanna do is fight people. I'm done talking to you.
>EVERYONE HAS THEIR OWN OPIONS I know. And I'd say none of our opinions presented in this discussion are wrong. >You don't like her new personality I do actually like her new personality. That doesn't mean I like the changes. >nothing we say is going to change each other's minds... END OF STORY. You could change my mind. Use valid arguments, unlike those you used so far. Just saying "end of story" one-sidedly doesn't really work however. It tells me that you want us both to leave this discussion unfinished and angry. I wouldn't like that. *** >Do you even play poppy to even care? whether her personality was changed... Are you even going to play her when the changes go live? I'm in no way a Poppy main, but I play her as a counterpick to Jax top and sometimes as a support when I'm with a friend adc and playing normals. Definitely going to play her when she goes live. That kit looks awesome! >If you answered No to both these questions...... Then see your way out. because the only thing you wanna do is fight people. I want to discuss. It's why I'm here. Valid argumentations and all that. I want to see if my standpoint is valid, if it's well-founded. I want to see if Riots is. I'm sorry if my attitude is disstressing you. This is not my intention at all.
Mozhu (NA)
: Also you wanna know what, you don't even play poppy... WHY THE HECK ARE YOU QQing about her changes? Is it wrong for other people to LIKE her changes? is your opinion the only one that matters? NO it's not. SO unless you main poppy, (Which you dont) or like the changes (Which you also dont seem to) But I do, which is why your fighting me... Than keep your opinions off the poppy posts! There's too much negativity all the time.
I'm not QQing over her changes. I haven't made up my mind whether I like them or not. I already like the new Poppy though. The whole oblivious hero thing is great. She also feels a lot more like a deep character, rather than the kind of one-dimensional character she felt like before (to me at least). I'm arguing with you that the arguments you're using aren't really great though. That's all. That does not necessarily make your opinion wrong, for it isn't the sole base you were founding your opinion on. I think we just think differently. That we're on these forums for different reasons. My apologies if I've disstressed you. That was not my intention at all.
Mozhu (NA)
: Something that's not as easy as typing words on a screen.. to completely change her personality back they'd have to get the voice for her back in and completely re-do everything. but... Honestly Id rather her personality stay the way it is... so SUSH. MY OPINION you got your own. #END OF CONVERSATION
>to completely change her personality back they'd have to get the voice for her back in and completely re-do everything. I haven't decided whether her personality *has* changed yet, I'm going to have to think. But there is a possibility that Poppy's rework removed or changed her core character. Then I will discuss this on these boards and there will be a relatively objective conclusion. If this conclusion is that Riot messed up, then it wouldn't be the first time. >Honestly Id rather her personality stay the way it is... so SUSH. MY OPINION you got your own. So I've three issues with this reasoning: You want me to stop arguing with mostly objective arguments because of your personal preference? This is not how public discussions work. You can just leave the discussion if you want, though. And contrary to the internet's popular opinion, admitting you're wrong when you are is a laudable trait. Everything on the PBE is up for change, it may never see the light of the live servers. A valid argument had she been released already, would be that changing her at that point would be the same mistake as changing her in the first place. But this is not the case yet. Now is the time where is still *can* be changed without resorting to retcons. Just liking her new personality more than the old one is just dismissing everyone elses opinion. That is simply a confusing thing to do. If you dismiss my opinion without arguments, then why wouldn't I dismiss yours too? How does one have a discussion with such an attitude? Are you even here to have a discussion, where you consider both sides' arguments?
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