RJay123 (NA)
: Unpopular Opinion: Good and Evil are not relative @Riot
Well, it all depends on your worldview as you say :) Runterras worldview is a sort of dualistic taoism or eastern mysticism. There morality becomes relative. A teistic worldview would argue that God is the objective standard for what good is. So, if for example we lived in a world where the nazis had taken over, their morality would still be objectively bad, even if the people there believed they were right or if the values and ethics changed, there would still be an objectivly good or bad morality even if people believed differently. A secular or naturalistic worldview would instead say that again, morality just depends on the society so you can't really say what's good and bad because it's relative, because the material world is all there is, and then nietsche would be kinda right. So I agree with you that: " We're not living in some Nietzschian hell hole where nothing matters".
: My problem is that the in-game model for Silver Kayle (at least currently) is so different, inferior, compared with how amazing the splash is. No coat, dumb sword, and so on. I hope they re-release it somehow, but why buy it or use it at all if the in-game model sucks?
> [{quoted}](name=Kalon Ordona II,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=bydgHTbt,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2019-02-21T17:08:59.818+0000) > > My problem is that the in-game model for Silver Kayle (at least currently) is so different, inferior, compared with how amazing the splash is. No coat, dumb sword, and so on. I hope they re-release it somehow, but why buy it or use it at all if the in-game model sucks? Yea I just saw the in-game model. It's a sahem it's not even close to the splash art. Aether wing is probably the best looking in game.
FFrazien (EUW)
: Can we revert Akali?
It's 44-45 % atm https://euw.op.gg/champion/akali/statistics/top . So not good, but still not as bad as 41 %. They are gonna buff her on 9.5 so we just have to wait and see
: Sadly its the fact that limited skins never got released again, and i think this one is living in its own world.
> [{quoted}](name=The Exceed,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=bydgHTbt,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-20T13:04:27.276+0000) > > Sadly its the fact that limited skins never got released again, and i think this one is living in its own world. But what about championship riven and neo pax sivir?
Hexwater (EUNE)
: [Offtopic Rant] Releasing all-exclusive skins, that are low in their quality, beyond their original customisation (recolor, retexture) and updating them as the game progresses, is just unfair. To avoid that, in my opinion, a pre-order/playing beta reward should be something like an icon, a border/unique theme for a profile, a highlighted nickname, a title...something small, rather unupdateable, yet, significant enough to show to other players, that you're playing since the beginning. Not many of you may know, but there is an MMO out there, Forsaken World, that rewarded their beta players with "Worldshaper" title. Small? Yes. Significant? Very. You walk among the players with that title, and everyone knows, that you were playing beta. In Guild Wars 2, you can get unique customisation skins, if you have achievments in the first Guild Wars. It's in your reach, but you must play the first game. Also, in Guild Wars 2, you get anniversary rewards (that are also skins). The fun starts after playing 4 years, where you get a unique backpach for your character. As the game goes on, more rewards are added.
> [{quoted}](name=Hexwater,realm=EUNE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=bydgHTbt,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-02-20T11:46:35.407+0000) > > [Offtopic Rant] > > Releasing all-exclusive skins, that are low in their quality, beyond their original customisation (recolor, retexture) and updating them as the game progresses, is just unfair. > > To avoid that, in my opinion, a pre-order/playing beta reward should be something like an icon, a border/unique theme for a profile, a highlighted nickname, a title...something small, rather unupdateable, yet, significant enough to show to other players, that you're playing since the beginning. > > Not many of you may know, but there is an MMO out there, Forsaken World, that rewarded their beta players with "Worldshaper" title. Small? Yes. Significant? Very. You walk among the players with that title, and everyone knows, that you were playing beta. > > In Guild Wars 2, you can get unique customisation skins, if you have achievments in the first Guild Wars. It's in your reach, but you must play the first game. > Also, in Guild Wars 2, you get anniversary rewards (that are also skins). The fun starts after playing 4 years, where you get a unique backpach for your character. As the game goes on, more rewards are added. Yea, good idea!
Hexwater (EUNE)
: It would be unfair if everyone was given those skins. Someone showed their support to Riot at the early stage, and they still must be rewarded. Less than 1% of the community (according to UnrankedSmurfs) has Silver Kayle, which is just a recolor. What is also unfair, that after relaunch/visual update of a champion, quality of those skins skydrappers. And still, it's beyond the reach of people who just didn't made it in time to get them, nor never had a chance to do so. Let's be honest, pre-rework Silver Kayle is just a recolor of the original Kayle, without any special effects, and most of Kayle players (I assume) we'rent even bothered by it. I think, the solution to this problem, would be giving an exlusive border for the skin + exclusive icon matching the skin, and release the exlusive skin for a some time after the rework/relaunch for everyone. This way, pre-order players would show their dedication regardless of the champion they are playing (and a way to be distingquished from those who purchased Silver Kayle after her relaunch), and those who didn't make it in time, will get another chance to get the skin, since its not just a recolor anymore after the relaunch. Because, honsetly, noone is a psychic; if I knew, years back, that Kayle will get a relaunch, the graphics of this game will get better, and Riot will add new effects to the skin, I would pre-order LoL. Same goes for Young Ryze. If I knew he would turn from a recolored zombie-like Ryze to a daddy, I would do everything to get my hands on him.
> [{quoted}](name=Hexwater,realm=EUNE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=bydgHTbt,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-02-20T10:58:23.322+0000) > > It would be unfair if everyone was given those skins. Someone showed their support to Riot at the early stage, and they still must be rewarded. Less than 1% of the community (according to UnrankedSmurfs) has Silver Kayle, which is just a recolor. > > What is also unfair, that after relaunch/visual update of a champion, quality of those skins skydrappers. And still, it's beyond the reach of people who just didn't made it in time to get them, nor never had a chance to do so. > Let's be honest, pre-rework Silver Kayle is just a recolor of the original Kayle, without any special effects, and most of Kayle players (I assume) we'rent even bothered by it. > > I think, the solution to this problem, would be giving an exlusive border for the skin + exclusive icon matching the skin, and release the exlusive skin for a some time after the rework/relaunch for everyone. > > This way, pre-order players would show their dedication regardless of the champion they are playing (and a way to be distingquished from those who purchased Silver Kayle after her relaunch), and those who didn't make it in time, will get another chance to get the skin, since its not just a recolor anymore after the relaunch. > > > Because, honsetly, noone is a psychic; if I knew, years back, that Kayle will get a relaunch, the graphics of this game will get better, and Riot will add new effects to the skin, I would pre-order LoL. > Same goes for Young Ryze. If I knew he would turn from a recolored zombie-like Ryze to a daddy, I would do everything to get my hands on him. Yea, I like your idea! Because I didn't play the game back then, so I had no chance to get it or to know they would update her skin to this. I think what you say makes sense and is fair to both old and new players.
NA Ghost (NA)
: Judgement kayle was a gift to season 1 players. skins like that should never be re released. I don't own any pax skins because i didnt go to pax. i have no right to those gifts. they were never purchasable. but for the early physical copy skins. I find it rubbish that riot will not re-release them. While they were boasting about how free this game was they tried to sell physical copies at the same time. there was never a stipulation set that those skins were limited. they just decided to do that once they grew a name. which I find very unfair to us season 1 players who did not purchase a physical copy of the game before the decision was made to take it off the market and vault the skins. the only kayle skin I do not own is silver kayle and as a season 1 kayle main it hurts. PLS RIOT RE-RELEASE SILVER KAYLE!!! 50usd and I'd still buy it. even if the re release is limited. I just want an honest chance to complete my collection.
> [{quoted}](name=NA Ghost,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=bydgHTbt,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-02-20T00:50:43.784+0000) > > Judgement kayle was a gift to season 1 players. skins like that should never be re released. I don't own any pax skins because i didnt go to pax. i have no right to those gifts. they were never purchasable. but for the early physical copy skins. I find it rubbish that riot will not re-release them. While they were boasting about how free this game was they tried to sell physical copies at the same time. there was never a stipulation set that those skins were limited. they just decided to do that once they grew a name. which I find very unfair to us season 1 players who did not purchase a physical copy of the game before the decision was made to take it off the market and vault the skins. the only kayle skin I do not own is silver kayle and as a season 1 kayle main it hurts. PLS RIOT RE-RELEASE SILVER KAYLE!!! 50usd and I'd still buy it. even if the re release is limited. I just want an honest chance to complete my collection. Yea, 50 usd would almost be worth it lol. I hope they do realeas it, even if it's just for a short time
: As someone who personally owns King Rammus, Black Alistar & Silver Kayle.. I would be a little disappointed if they released these prestigious skins to the public once more. My sister collects rare trinkets and bobbles as a hobby, and she would be devastated if years of work were lost if everything was reproduced and the value of her collection dropped. I can sympathize with those who never had a chance to get these skins or only recently took interest in League of Legends, but there is a fairness to both sides.
> [{quoted}](name=Jeanne DˇArc,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=bydgHTbt,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-02-19T23:41:14.372+0000) > > As someone who personally owns King Rammus, Black Alistar & Silver Kayle.. I would be a little disappointed if they released these prestigious skins to the public once more. My sister collects rare trinkets and bobbles as a hobby, and she would be devastated if years of work were lost if everything was reproduced and the value of her collection dropped. I can sympathize with those who never had a chance to get these skins or only recently took interest in League of Legends, but there is a fairness to both sides. Idk, they could maybe get some exclusives like a border, an exclusive chroma and other stuff that can compensate. Just feel like it would be such a shame if this skin was never officially released, because it looks sick lol. They could make it hard to obtain like the prestigious skins or costing gemstones or something.
: So glad that Silver Kayle got some work done to it, there was never a reason to choose it w/ how cool Judgement looked. Speaking as a fellow Silver Kayle owner, pure-exclusives are BS and I hate them in all games, would prefer something like Urfwick where it is easy to obtain for a short amount of time, becomes incredibly expensive/hard to obtain afterwards. Hopefully skins like Silver Kayle will be something like "3 Hextech Gems + X Skin Shards"
> [{quoted}](name=Glaricion,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=bydgHTbt,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2019-02-19T23:23:00.700+0000) > > So glad that Silver Kayle got some work done to it, there was never a reason to choose it w/ how cool Judgement looked. > > Speaking as a fellow Silver Kayle owner, pure-exclusives are BS and I hate them in all games, would prefer something like Urfwick where it is easy to obtain for a short amount of time, becomes incredibly expensive/hard to obtain afterwards. > > Hopefully skins like Silver Kayle will be something like "3 Hextech Gems + X Skin Shards" Yea, I don't mind it if it's hard to get, but I hope there will be a way to get it somehow even if you have to pay gemstones for it^^
: Hey dudes, I'm a silver kayle owner. Would love for you guys to have the skin. But I'd also love if the other preorder skins got released as well for you, and people who actually got the preorder got some sort of banner or in-game accessory to show for it. Gotta keep things fair!
> [{quoted}](name=Solo Josh,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=bydgHTbt,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-02-19T21:37:15.395+0000) > > Hey dudes, I'm a silver kayle owner. Would love for you guys to have the skin. But I'd also love if the other preorder skins got released as well for you, and people who actually got the preorder got some sort of banner or in-game accessory to show for it. Gotta keep things fair! Yea, I wouldn't mind if there was given some exclusive chroma or borders or something for you, but it would be nice if we could be able to get it somehow!
: Silver Kayle & Riot Kayle have the two best splashes in my opinion. --------------- Riot Kayle 2019 https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pcm97EWHkTA/XGwlMvmUe1I/AAAAAAABO9Q/eWSpYpeJEYcUVSCXRJBH3MtNeuhMY1vDgCLcBGAs/s1600/Riot-kayle_FINAL.jpg Silver Kayle 2019 https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-n2Nfo1830eA/XGwllmqbgyI/AAAAAAABO9g/WR4v_b0OnJw-WK2EDcXy3xmUG3CqQiX0ACLcBGAs/s1600/SilverKayle_FINAL.jpg
> [{quoted}](name=Kingslayër,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=bydgHTbt,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-02-19T19:44:20.924+0000) > > Silver Kayle & Riot Kayle have the two best splashes in my opinion. > --------------- > Riot Kayle 2019 > https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pcm97EWHkTA/XGwlMvmUe1I/AAAAAAABO9Q/eWSpYpeJEYcUVSCXRJBH3MtNeuhMY1vDgCLcBGAs/s1600/Riot-kayle_FINAL.jpg > > Silver Kayle 2019 > https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-n2Nfo1830eA/XGwllmqbgyI/AAAAAAABO9g/WR4v_b0OnJw-WK2EDcXy3xmUG3CqQiX0ACLcBGAs/s1600/SilverKayle_FINAL.jpg And https://lolstatic-a.akamaihd.net/frontpage/apps/prod/rg-champion-update-kayle-morgana/en_US/5522676cc32e3aedf39ebf3c0c9d82890fd77866/assets/img/content/kayleMorgana/wallpaper/splash/AetherWingKayle_FINAL.jpg
GreenLore (EUW)
: The big problem that I see here is that they haven't done this with Young Ryze, even though the skin was in a similar situation.
> [{quoted}](name=GreenLore,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=bydgHTbt,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-02-19T19:48:57.703+0000) > > The big problem that I see here is that they haven't done this with Young Ryze, even though the skin was in a similar situation. Yea, that isn't a good sign
Rioter Comments
: I like on how everyone is now an old time, kayle main that hates the changes
Snowman Arc (EUNE)
: Are people even trying to win ranked games anymore?
It feels like it's back to better bot wins. If I don't have a winning bot lane (which happens a lot) it's pretty much over it feels like. And there is still a lot of smurfs and new players in my elo...
: Ever fought a 700 move speed Karma or a 500 Move speed Zyra? I guarantee if you had, you'd hate it. Mobility just looks okay because most meta players don't pick it. They opt for the over the top offensive stats rather than hitting twice as often for a little less.
> [{quoted}](name=Illabethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jT6E5KXK,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-02-18T15:52:30.470+0000) > > Ever fought a 700 move speed Karma or a 500 Move speed Zyra? I guarantee if you had, you'd hate it. > > Mobility just looks okay because most meta players don't pick it. They opt for the over the top offensive stats rather than hitting twice as often for a little less. Idk, it doesn't bother me as much as dmg being too high for example
: Ornn skin: Molten Chocolate Ornn
PLSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GreyfellD (EUW)
: Mobility isn't a bad thing though... my problem is there is are not enough counter options to high mobility. As I said, there needs to be more anti-mobility mechanics in the game that would help out champions that don't naturally have mobility.
> [{quoted}](name=GreyfellD,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jT6E5KXK,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-18T11:40:32.741+0000) > > Mobility isn't a bad thing though... my problem is there is are not enough counter options to high mobility. As I said, there needs to be more anti-mobility mechanics in the game that would help out champions that don't naturally have mobility. Yea, there could be some place for more grounding mechanics on champions. But most champions already have some kind of CC that they can interrupt mobility with so it's not as bad as you think. Champions like brand or xerath that lack mobility can still counter mobility by hitting their stun when talon use his jump for example.
GreyfellD (EUW)
: Mobility needs a rework
I dont understand why mobility is such a bad thing, it's just a natural evolution of the game. It gives more skill expression and more options to outplay opponents. I think mobility is pretty balanced atm. I rarely feel like "Oh shit, talons mobility is op nerf that shit". EDIT: Not being able to counterpick as much is a good thing. That means the draft doesn't decide the whole game. I prefer that there is less hard counters in the game and it's more about how well you play your champion.
Shahamut (NA)
: Everything you said about Skarner is wrong... just wrong. His ult doesn't need to be a skill shot, and the spires are ANYTHING but ok. Wrote a long post about the spires in gameplay+, if you are at all interested in Skarner as a champion, I would suggest you go read it.
> [{quoted}](name=Shahamut,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hfl36PfQ,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-02-17T22:41:24.003+0000) > > Everything you said about Skarner is wrong... just wrong. > > His ult doesn't need to be a skill shot, and the spires are ANYTHING but ok. Wrote a long post about the spires in gameplay+, if you are at all interested in Skarner as a champion, I would suggest you go read it. Yea, I'm fine with the spires personally tho. But I think every supress should be a skillshot because it's such a powerpful ability. Warwick got a skillshot on his supress and so do malzahar and skarner. I might read it, but Skarner is on Riots offical tierlist too so I'm not alone in my opinion of Skarner needing a rework.
: They are not buffing her at 9.4, Zoe did.
> [{quoted}](name=VolatileAkali,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pj82Oz95,comment-id=00050000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-17T10:46:22.007+0000) > > They are not buffing her at 9.4, Zoe did. They will probably buff her in the one or two next patches, it's not that big of a deal.
: Zoe got buffed almost immediately, Akali didn't.
> [{quoted}](name=VolatileAkali,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pj82Oz95,comment-id=000500000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-16T18:49:04.901+0000) > > Zoe got buffed almost immediately, Akali didn't. It haven't even been a patch yet since her nerfs
: You make me laugh, Akali will never be fixed. She needs huge changes to her overall.
> [{quoted}](name=VolatileAkali,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pj82Oz95,comment-id=0005000000000001,timestamp=2019-02-16T14:44:27.202+0000) > > You make me laugh, Akali will never be fixed. She needs huge changes to her overall. Yea, they said that about Zoe too, but look at her now
Moody P (NA)
: Darius doesn't have skillshots
> [{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rIqeojtA,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-16T12:41:31.683+0000) > > Darius doesn't have skillshots Yes they are, you can dodge both his Q and his E, or at least they can be dodged/missed as compared to a targeted ability like Ryze W or something. So they should make him more like Darius, with abilities that you can dodge and miss.
Moody P (NA)
: Volibear has a lot of themes now and they all need to be used
Well, every champion should have some skillshot nowadays. Every new and rework champion have it, even aa based ones. Like Darius have both his Q and his E as skillshots and when they reworked Warwick they made both his ult and E skillshots or not targeted. So I hope they change that with Volibear too, so they can give hime more skillshots and a higher skill ceiling/less reliable in low elo.
: Galio Rework is only a popularity Improvement because no one played galio because he intentionally had horrible base stats. same with Yorick Sejuani and Sion none of them are actually better gameplay wise. Except Sion maybe if they didnt take way his ability to continously use his shield. and take away its damage when it was broken if we ignore how much power the siphned out of his shield and that his putting the 'zombie aspect' of his kit on his passive made his passive useless then yeah his new kit is better even if it changed most of his game play and made him super clunky because riot and idiots in the community believe that no one should have a clunky kit but tanks and fighters.
> [{quoted}](name=LordGeovanni,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pj82Oz95,comment-id=00010002,timestamp=2019-02-16T01:16:00.660+0000) > > Galio Rework is only a popularity Improvement because no one played galio because he intentionally had horrible base stats. same with Yorick Sejuani and Sion none of them are actually better gameplay wise. Except Sion maybe if they didnt take way his ability to continously use his shield. and take away its damage when it was broken if we ignore how much power the siphned out of his shield and that his putting the 'zombie aspect' of his kit on his passive made his passive useless then yeah his new kit is better even if it changed most of his game play and made him super clunky because riot and idiots in the community believe that no one should have a clunky kit but tanks and fighters. Yorick was super cancer before his rework and was probably the most needed rework of any champion ever. Old Sejuani was a big problem, because her only ability was her 5 man ult stun. She had very little skill expression back then and pro teams only picked her because one ult was all they needed. She was very stat-checky.
: You always tell people who didnt play the champions before the reworks they always think that the reworks are so revolutionary.
> [{quoted}](name=LordGeovanni,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pj82Oz95,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-16T01:14:59.061+0000) > > You always tell people who didnt play the champions before the reworks they always think that the reworks are so revolutionary. Well, I did play quiet a few games on old nunu, mained old akali (which I admit miss sometimes), I played some games on old Irelia, just a couple on Swain, quiet a few on Evelynn, not much ww tho and quiet a few games on Urgot. And the only one so far that I miss sometimes is Akali, and she was nice but I still think she needed the rework and that that rework was mostly good too.
Moody P (NA)
: no
> [{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pj82Oz95,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-02-15T14:25:18.639+0000) > > no {{champion:20}} : Honestly one of the best VGUs in the game, kept the champions identity intact and core gameplay but at the same time improved it a lot. The only bad thing was maybe that they pretty much kept the same ult. {{champion:84}}: Compared to the old akali is much better now, visually and gameplay isn't one-dimensional or stat-checky anymore. She was too strong at the start, but after the Zoe treatment I think she will turn out good. Changing her untargetability under tower was the only thing she needed. Other then that, her gameplay improved a lot. {{champion:266}}: Compared to the old aatroxx, was improved. His kit works well togheter now and will probably turn out good after the nerfs and balance. {{champion:39}}: She was overloaded at the start, but the new design was better. She is a bit odd. She have both good and bad parts and it feels like she is still getting changes to get her where she is supposed to be. But improvment over old irelia still. {{champion:50}}: One of my favourite updates. Compare this to the old Swain and it's like night and day. Old Swain was boring to play and play against. New Swain is fun to play and feels fair to play aginst usually. {{champion:28}}: Well, gameplay wise she turned out good but sometimes it feels like she is lacking somwhow. Maybe because stealth is hard to balance around even after the stealth nerfs. Her kit is nicer now tho. {{champion:19}}: Great VGU. {{champion:6}}: Was sceptical at first, but think it turned out great. {{champion:83}}: Much better then old yorick.
BigFBear (EUW)
: I have Smurfs in 80% of my games and it isn't fun. No matter if they are on enemy or my side. It's just boring. Games are just "who will get the smurf/autofill" nowadays.
> [{quoted}](name=BigFBear,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8cfh7eeE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-15T09:17:53.785+0000) > > I have Smurfs in 80% of my games and it isn't fun. > No matter if they are on enemy or my side. > It's just boring. > Games are just "who will get the smurf/autofill" nowadays. Yea, it sucks
Moody P (NA)
: no volibear rework
I think you ment "90 % of them have succeed"^^
: Tired of the "its just a game" excuse.
Idk, I don't take normal games serious. It's nice to win, but if I lose so what. I don't lose a rank, I actually didn't lose anything except that game so it doesn't really matter to me if I win or lose in normals. I played a game with a guy and we had disagreement of a play. After the game he added me and started to flame me lol, calling me out for not trying hard enough for win. So he asked me if we could que up so he could run it down mid, "because t doesn't matter if u win or lose right?". I said, if that's what he wanted to do, fine. It was just a normal. Then I unfriended him
Kaìju (NA)
: The issue with tuning Fizz and Ekko is that if the items makes them too tanky you have to nerf their base stats. But then you balanced them around a few items and if those items get nerfed then the tuned champions become terrible. Even if the ratios were higher and base lower, they could build like juggernauts. Three AP bruiser items and then say Deathcap and something else. Then what?
> [{quoted}](name=Kaìju,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=AKGEKLMT,comment-id=0028000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-13T18:40:22.909+0000) > > The issue with tuning Fizz and Ekko is that if the items makes them too tanky you have to nerf their base stats. But then you balanced them around a few items and if those items get nerfed then the tuned champions become terrible. Even if the ratios were higher and base lower, they could build like juggernauts. Three AP bruiser items and then say Deathcap and something else. Then what? I don't really see the problem tho? It's exactly the same as with AD champs. Like, you can't have too high base stats on ad assassin or they just build a bruiser build instead. If you apply your reasoning to ad champions too, that would mean that AD assassins are already tuned around lethalithy and ad vs bruiser builds, so Riot have already failed there? Is ap tuning different from ad tuning in this regard?
Kaìju (NA)
: The issue with items that you listed being made for AP bruisers is champions like Fizz and Ekko will use them and end up pretty tanky with good damage. And if they aren't melee only burst mages and battle mages like Anivia or Vlad could end up getting them and being way too tanky with too much damage.
> [{quoted}](name=Kaìju,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=AKGEKLMT,comment-id=00280001,timestamp=2019-02-13T18:06:07.311+0000) > > The issue with items that you listed being made for AP bruisers is champions like Fizz and Ekko will use them and end up pretty tanky with good damage. And if they aren't melee only burst mages and battle mages like Anivia or Vlad could end up getting them and being way too tanky with too much damage. Well, you didn't read my whole post then. I asked about fizz and ekko and explained that maybe there are ways to prevent this exact scenario, like changing their base dmg vs ap ratios and stuff. And right now steraks and titanic is only for melee so you could do the same for the ap bruiser items so Anivia and Vladimir can abuse it. Maybe there are other reasons that make it harder to implement ap items then ad, but the arguments you presents seems to be pretty easy to solve if they use the same rules they use for ad bruiser items.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 13
_Hi Meddler! Are there any plans or thoughts about adding AP bruiser/divers items into the game? _ For me, the addition of Sylas made it obvious that there isn't a lot of good options for champions like {{champion:517}} , {{champion:82}} , {{champion:131}} , {{champion:68}} and maybe {{champion:27}} . AD brusiers/divers have access to {{item:3078}} , {{item:3071}} , {{item:3161}} , {{item:3053}} , {{item:3748}} and other items. I think these champions would be helped a lot by having acess to AP versions of these items. Right now it is as if AD champions only had access to assassin items and tank items and that would feel pretty bad. Is it because you are afraid that champions like ekko or fizz could abuse it or is there other reasons? What about then changing base ap and and ap scaling ratios for those potential abusers? Would be interesting to hear yours and Riots stand on this.
: Smurfs in Solo Queue.
Yea, it's so frustrating to play against. I've seen a loot of accounts that don't have a last season rank stomp games. Maybe not all of them are smurfs, but a lot probably are. It feels really frustrating when you know there isn't much you can do to win that game. There obviously is a demand for smurf accounts so Riot should find out a way to make that demand viable without having to sacrifies low elo games somehow.
: Position rank is making me wanna quit League
Just wait a month or so, when people starting to get their actual position ranks and have ranked up or down enough so games are more even and I think it will be much better. It's just the start of the season and the introduction of a new ranked season. Eventually it will be much better probably
Lakrosin (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Snowbrand,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hfl36PfQ,comment-id=000500000000000000000000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-02-12T23:13:51.109+0000) > > Sure, you can still "outplay" it with cleanse or qss just like you could with old warwicks ult or old irelias stun or old akali ultimate or old nunus e and so on. But as I said, his point and click fear isn't the only reason he needs a rework. His visuals and him being squishy but having a playstyle that puts him in the center of a teamfight with any real tools to do so and frustrating gameplay with his e is more reasons why riot probably and hopefully will rework him too^^ u might disagree, but looking at the logic used for other reworks, it seems fair fiddelstick should be on that list too Okay let me try to be unbiased here and explain a little better of why I want him to stay the same despite his kit being so cancerous (Like Yasuo). The combination of mobility and untargetability is more cancerous than having a skill that is actually slower than a Master Yi Q. I'm not sure how to explain this even more. A squishy having a CC skill that can be eliminated on death and all a person has to do is one shot him is ridiculous. Damage is so high and tanks are a fucking joke right now as well. Since we can't have nice things (Thanks rito), we need some way to psuedo tank. That is why Fiddlesticks comes into play. Literally ALMOST NOBODY plays him the way I do. If they did, they would see him more cancerous as I do but wouldn't know what to do at the same time since mobility creep is cancerous as well. His Fear is absolutely r- (Insert non-politically correct term here) but the thing is simple. Warwick fear has a startup time THAT REDUCES DAMAGE. Other characters also have a fear that does SOMETHING ELSE besides fear. Fiddlesticks is literally the only champion in the game that can CC someone under tower to punish people camping. THE ONLY CHAMPION. And the only champion that has a CC skill that does absolutely nothing useful but provide CC. THE ONLY CHAMPION. Hence, I absolutely DETEST the fact the reason you want him reworked only because he ABSOLUTELY SHITS ON singed. In fact, I think Singed needs a stronger rework than Fiddlesticks ever does. But, clearly Riot doesn't think someone who provides less game viewers needs more of a rework than a champion who was low-key broken last season. But hey, **HOW DOES THAT MAKE YOU FEEL?** Here is another fun fact: The target group Rito is going towards isn't working. They are pissing off competitive players. They are pissing off new players. They are pissing off Liberals. They are pissing off Conservatives. They are pissing off old mains and new mains. They are changing shit for the sake of change to the extent that I went back to Tera to actually experience what a traditional support and tank SHOULD FEEL LIKE. That is quite pathetic.
> [{quoted}](name=Lakrosin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hfl36PfQ,comment-id=0005000000000000000000000000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-13T02:08:41.474+0000) > > Okay let me try to be unbiased here and explain a little better of why I want him to stay the same despite his kit being so cancerous (Like Yasuo). > > The combination of mobility and untargetability is more cancerous than having a skill that is actually slower than a Master Yi Q. I'm not sure how to explain this even more. A squishy having a CC skill that can be eliminated on death and all a person has to do is one shot him is ridiculous. Damage is so high and tanks are a fucking joke right now as well. Since we can't have nice things (Thanks rito), we need some way to psuedo tank. That is why Fiddlesticks comes into play. Literally ALMOST NOBODY plays him the way I do. If they did, they would see him more cancerous as I do but wouldn't know what to do at the same time since mobility creep is cancerous as well. His Fear is absolutely r- (Insert non-politically correct term here) but the thing is simple. > > Warwick fear has a startup time THAT REDUCES DAMAGE. Other characters also have a fear that does SOMETHING ELSE besides fear. Fiddlesticks is literally the only champion in the game that can CC someone under tower to punish people camping. THE ONLY CHAMPION. And the only champion that has a CC skill that does absolutely nothing useful but provide CC. THE ONLY CHAMPION. Hence, I absolutely DETEST the fact the reason you want him reworked only because he ABSOLUTELY SHITS ON singed. In fact, I think Singed needs a stronger rework than Fiddlesticks ever does. But, clearly Riot doesn't think someone who provides less game viewers needs more of a rework than a champion who was low-key broken last season. But hey, **HOW DOES THAT MAKE YOU FEEL?** > > Here is another fun fact: The target group Rito is going towards isn't working. They are pissing off competitive players. They are pissing off new players. They are pissing off Liberals. They are pissing off Conservatives. They are pissing off old mains and new mains. They are changing shit for the sake of change to the extent that I went back to Tera to actually experience what a traditional support and tank SHOULD FEEL LIKE. > > That is quite pathetic. Yea, I totally disagree with you but that's fine^^ I feel like we won't get any further tho. Well, you don't really know what I'm thinking right? I actually put singed in the rework list aswell first, then someone pointed out that he alread got a visual update and some changes. But I still think he might need a full VGU sooner or later yes even tho I like him as he his right now. Lol, me playing Singed have actually 0 to do with me putting him on the rework list. Everything you do will piss off some players, but I'm unsure how many there are as you say there are. I can't back it up except anecdotal evidence and neither can you unless you have some hard facts? But that's is a bit off topic either way, because it's kinda irrelevant if a champion should be reworked or not.
Lakrosin (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Snowbrand,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hfl36PfQ,comment-id=0005000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-12T14:11:28.459+0000) > > Yea, but you forget cassio, she have low hp too (and other champions with hard skillshot cc that can stop mobility). > > Yea, it's kinda the point of untargetability, you outplay them before or after they go untargetable. > > I'm not sure what's ur point or why u are so mad? I listed 20-30 other champions too that should get rework. The point >>> Your head >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > [{quoted}](name=Snowbrand,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hfl36PfQ,comment-id=0005000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-12T14:11:28.459+0000) > But yes, that fear is a bit of a problem because you can't outplay it. LOL Im done.
> [{quoted}](name=Lakrosin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hfl36PfQ,comment-id=00050000000000000000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-02-12T22:42:27.377+0000) > > The point >>> > > Your head >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > LOL Im done. Sure, you can still "outplay" it with cleanse or qss just like you could with old warwicks ult or old irelias stun or old akali ultimate or old nunus e and so on. But as I said, his point and click fear isn't the only reason he needs a rework. His visuals and him being squishy but having a playstyle that puts him in the center of a teamfight with any real tools to do so and frustrating gameplay with his e is more reasons why riot probably and hopefully will rework him too^^ u might disagree, but looking at the logic used for other reworks, it seems fair fiddelstick should be on that list too
Lakrosin (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Snowbrand,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hfl36PfQ,comment-id=00050000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-12T12:58:34.793+0000) > > It just takes a bit more skill to use it, which is good in my opinion. If you mained singed, you would realize there is a difference between HIS HP AND FIDDLESTICKS HP. That and you can't immobilize someone who is basically off the map like Kayn and Fizz but you do you. (Oh by the way, did I forget to mention Kayn AGAIN?) I think you are just mad that singed doesn't have a good time against fiddlesticks. I would know because singed players get feared consistently by me as a means of BM. Even though fear doesn't do damage and would technically help you kite if you were speed boosted but hey let's not learn how to abuse a fiddlesticks Q and call him op. Regardless, he is getting reworked. Well done. More drones of people leave from EVERY REWORK. But you won't realize until this game doesn't become the top three. Actually if it was only top 50 at some point I doubt you would realize either in your current state of mind. People are looking for better games. It's becoming clear through twitch.
> [{quoted}](name=Lakrosin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hfl36PfQ,comment-id=000500000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-12T13:01:39.092+0000) > > If you mained singed, you would realize there is a difference between HIS HP AND FIDDLESTICKS HP. > > That and you can't immobilize someone who is basically off the map like Kayn and Fizz but you do you. (Oh by the way, did I forget to mention Kayn AGAIN?) > > I think you are just mad that singed doesn't have a good time against fiddlesticks. I would know because singed players get feared consistently by me as a means of BM. Even though fear doesn't do damage and would technically help you kite if you were speed boosted but hey let's not learn how to abuse a fiddlesticks Q and call him op. > > Regardless, he is getting reworked. Well done. More drones of people leave from EVERY REWORK. But you won't realize until this game doesn't become the top three. Actually if it was only top 50 at some point I doubt you would realize either in your current state of mind. People are looking for better games. It's becoming clear through twitch. Yea, but you forget cassio, she have low hp too (and other champions with hard skillshot cc that can stop mobility). Yea, it's kinda the point of untargetability, you outplay them before or after they go untargetable. I'm not sure what's ur point or why u are so mad? I listed 20-30 other champions too that should get rework. I didn't make a post about fiddelstick. But yes, that fear is a bit of a problem because you can't outplay it. You only need to press ur ability to fear someone. I don't only main singed, I could pick something else if I wanted to counter fiddelstick. Yea he probably gets reworked like a lot of other champions, because they need it. I don't think drones of people are leaving tho, but I don't really care because I don't work for riot. But i prefer the game to evolve and get better then to stay the same since beta. Yea, people get bored if they play a game for too long usually, so people would leave even if they didn't do anything. Probably more people would leave if it just stayed the same, but I just speculate.
Lakrosin (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Snowbrand,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hfl36PfQ,comment-id=000500000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-12T12:19:04.579+0000) > > Okay, so why isn't cassios and singed grounding effects that's literally made to counter mobility not targeted then? When is the last time you seen someone walk in Singed W? Tell me cause I've literally never seen it and I'm level 169. Also, tell me how Cass W doesn't become unreliable at some point.
> [{quoted}](name=Lakrosin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hfl36PfQ,comment-id=0005000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-12T12:44:50.309+0000) > > When is the last time you seen someone walk in Singed W? Tell me cause I've literally never seen it and I'm level 169. Also, tell me how Cass W doesn't become unreliable at some point. I main singed, so it happens pretty often. Good to setup ganks So they can't flash out and stuff like that or in a teamfight when you use it on riven for example. You probably haven't seen it because a lot of people don't play singed very well or at all. But other champions like ww use cc like fear to stop champions to use mobility without it having to be targeted. It just takes a bit more skill to use it, which is good in my opinion.
Lakrosin (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Snowbrand,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hfl36PfQ,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-12T03:53:33.418+0000) > > But you can counter mobility with a skillshot fear too? Both Cassiopeia and Singed have to use a skillshot to ground there opponents so it seems fair and reasonable that fiddlestick should have a skillshot like that too. No you can't. If someone is teleporting all over the map, you expect to hit a 'skillshot'? Are you kidding? They have a octogon of positions they can use their mobility to position themselves to. You expect to hit a gamble skillshot? {{champion:238}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:81}} {{champion:103}} {{champion:268}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:555}} {{champion:141}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:24}} These champions get punished for trying to abuse their kits by his fear. Some with that mobility I was talking about. You want no counter-play to them? Fine. Expect less people. Untargetability should be punishable. That is why Kayn is so fun to PUNISH. Fiddlesticks is squishy. Of course he wants an INSTANT CAST CC. He doesn't build tanky last time I checked unless you go PURE CC in which you do NO DAMAGE. He dies as fast as he does damage. He isn't broken like you think he is.
> [{quoted}](name=Lakrosin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hfl36PfQ,comment-id=00050000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-12T03:56:30.754+0000) > > No you can't. If someone is teleporting all over the map, you expect to hit a 'skillshot'? Are you kidding? They have a octogon of positions they can use their mobility to position themselves to. You expect to hit a gamble skillshot? > > {{champion:238}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:81}} {{champion:103}} {{champion:268}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:555}} {{champion:141}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:24}} > > These champions get punished for trying to abuse their kits by his fear. Some with that mobility I was talking about. You want no counter-play to them? Fine. Expect less people. Untargetability should be punishable. That is why Kayn is so fun to PUNISH. > > Fiddlesticks is squishy. Of course he wants an INSTANT CAST CC. He doesn't build tanky last time I checked unless you go PURE CC in which you do NO DAMAGE. He dies as fast as he does damage. He isn't broken like you think he is. Okay, so why isn't cassios and singed grounding effects that's literally made to counter mobility not targeted then? You make no sense here. Ye they have an octogon of positions they can use their mobility on, but so does a skillshot. It's 50/50 from both sides as it should be and that's fair. CC counters mobility so you just need to learn to hit skillshots that's all. Untargetability shouldn't be punishable, it should be outplayable. And there you just explained why fiddelstick is in need of a rework. Not because he is broken, but because his kit is unhealthy and not very balanced and his visuals are lacking
Lakrosin (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Snowbrand,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hfl36PfQ,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-02-12T03:42:26.752+0000) > > Idk, but I still think fiddel is one of the most in need of an update. They changed the fear on ww and it's not targeted and I think that's a better design. There is not really any skill expression for fiddelstick to use his fear on an assassin for example when he dives in. He could keep his fear but make it more like warwicks then. I wouldn't think a lot of people would leave if they rework fiddelstick. He don't have that many mains I think? But if they do a nunu kind of rework he could still stay true to his identity and kit. The point of a point and click fear is to counter mobility. (Which wasn't it's original intention) That is one less way to counter the cesspool of mobility champions now. Every single main I have has been reworked to something completely different. Sejuani went from a tank to a bruiser because they kept fucking up on making her a tank. Soraka went from a healer to a Pseudo healer that maxes W only to counter the damage she does to herself (AFTER ALMOST MAXING E FIRST AND HAVING 3 POINTS IN E AT LEVEL 4 or 5). Now I'm awaiting the dumb decision by riot to make fiddlesticks into something not terrifying nor fear based because that is how they been working. I had an entire list of why I hate this cancerous game. This is part of the reason and people defending this garbage change for the sake of change makes me hate it even more.
> [{quoted}](name=Lakrosin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hfl36PfQ,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2019-02-12T03:51:23.877+0000) > > The point of a point and click fear is to counter mobility. That is one less way to counter the cesspool of mobility champions now. But you can counter mobility with a skillshot fear too? Both Cassiopeia and Singed have to use a skillshot to ground there opponents so it seems fair and reasonable that fiddlestick should have a skillshot like that too.
Sukishoo (NA)
: Well yeah they could literally go back down there list and just revamp all champs at one point or another cause none of them will last forever. However, as of right now (and for some more years to come) they aren't bad. There are far greater offenders of needing visual and/or gameplay work right at this time (that will happen in the next few years)
> [{quoted}](name=Sukishoo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hfl36PfQ,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-12T03:42:44.946+0000) > > Well yeah they could literally go back down there list and just revamp all champs at one point or another cause none of them will last forever. However, as of right now (and for some more years to come) they aren't bad. There are far greater offenders of needing visual and/or gameplay work right at this time (that will happen in the next few years) Yea I know, that's why there is at least 17 other champions that have to be reworked or updated before that. And if they do like 5 reworks a year that would be at least 3-4 years at least.
Lakrosin (NA)
: I'm honestly done seeing change for the sake of change. {{champion:9}} fear can be cleansed. If he dies, the fear is automatically gone as well. It's the only hard CC that works like that. He's not terrible either. Just because you can't play with and against him doesn't mean he is bad. But hey, we should make sure more people leave the game because people keep touching shit they shouldn't. Actually, you have his skills reversed too. HE IS BASED AROUND FEAR. You want to eliminate fear for draining? Have you read his lore and heard his taunts? They are already reworking him, so it doesn't matter. Cause Riot hasn't made a smart decision in months now.
> [{quoted}](name=Lakrosin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hfl36PfQ,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-02-12T03:13:11.271+0000) > > I'm honestly done seeing change for the sake of change. > > {{champion:9}} fear can be cleansed. If he dies, the fear is automatically gone as well. It's the only hard CC that works like that. He's not terrible either. Just because you can't play with and against him doesn't mean he is bad. But hey, we should make sure more people leave the game because people keep touching shit they shouldn't. > > Actually, you have his skills reversed too. HE IS BASED AROUND FEAR. You want to eliminate fear for draining? Have you read his lore and heard his taunts? > > They are already reworking him, so it doesn't matter. Cause Riot hasn't made a smart decision in months now. Idk, but I still think fiddel is one of the most in need of an update. They changed the fear on ww and it's not targeted and I think that's a better design. There is not really any skill expression for fiddelstick to use his fear on an assassin for example when he dives in. He could keep his fear but make it more like warwicks then. I wouldn't think a lot of people would leave if they rework fiddelstick. He don't have that many mains I think? But if they do a nunu kind of rework he could still stay true to his identity and kit.
Sukishoo (NA)
: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-KM5EBpkYEZ0/VMdvxkhT9VI/AAAAAAAABAo/HDHklZlQAbo/s1600/basetristanacompare.jpg http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-69NYUpyG1ko/Uw_88-Pm7sI/AAAAAAAAMsU/bsSjIieTNsM/s1600/h1.jpg They are both modern looking for Yordles.
> [{quoted}](name=Sukishoo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hfl36PfQ,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-02-12T03:10:19.969+0000) > > http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-KM5EBpkYEZ0/VMdvxkhT9VI/AAAAAAAABAo/HDHklZlQAbo/s1600/basetristanacompare.jpg > > http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-69NYUpyG1ko/Uw_88-Pm7sI/AAAAAAAAMsU/bsSjIieTNsM/s1600/h1.jpg > > They are both modern looking for Yordles. Yea, fair enough. They look pretty good, just remember if Riot would follow this list it would still take a few years to get to heimer or tristana anyway.
: Their lists are almost always good, but then they go and add some off the wall shit that makes you go what.... The Ezreal level VGUs are where it goes crazy, because a lot of what you suggest has already received considerable work, and doesn't need Ezreal level work. {{champion:1}} - Got a VGU. Could use expanded voice lines, but overall, fine. Does not need an Ezreal level update. {{champion:34}} - Kit is clunky. Model is clunky. Needs a real VGU, especially if you're going to have us believe that "Goat" Dwarf Ornn is her brother. {{champion:53}} - I'm on the fence, because I believe his hook consumes too much of his power budget, but I can let this one pass. {{champion:131}} - A gameplay update is not an Ezreal level update. {{champion:60}} - Looks fine, plays fine. Doesn't need anything. {{champion:86}} - See note for Annie. {{champion:79}} - This one actually could use an Ezreal level VGU. {{champion:74}} - See note for Annie. {{champion:96}} - Hell no. Needs a full VGU. He's super clunky and can be volatile in terms of balance. {{champion:21}} - Got a visual update. She needs a new animation rigging (she has no proper recall) and a new VO. Doesn't need an Ezreal level update. {{champion:111}} - Needs more of a visual update than anything. His gameplay is fine, could use some polish, but overall he's near perfect. So kinda, but not as dramatic as Ezreal's. {{champion:2}} - Another hell no. See Kog'Maw note. {{champion:133}} - Needs a bit of a visual update (her quiver is not attached to her back, her pose is also shit). Gameplay needs a lot of work. I'd say full VGU considering her needs, though more muted, like Aatrox. {{champion:27}} - His model was updated. His kit was updated. His animations and his VO need severe updating. Not an Ezreal level update. {{champion:17}} - Could actually use an Ezreal level update. {{champion:18}} - What the fuck? Her update is only 4 years old. She's completely up to modern standards. She was the Ezreal level update before it was even known as the Ezreal level update. GTFO. {{champion:45}} - Definitely needs some kit work, on top of his model. I'd say full VGU, though not an immediate Tier 1. Tier 2. {{champion:254}} - Just no. She's fine. She could use some polish in her kit, but she doesn't need an Ezreal level update, and won't need one for many years. {{champion:62}} - Definitely needs an Ezreal level update. His kit's clunky and frustrating for a lot of people, and he's also volatile. His visuals need a polish as well. {{champion:115}} - Visually, he needs a slight polish, but his kit is fine.
> [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hfl36PfQ,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-02-11T20:26:11.592+0000) > > Their lists are almost always good, but then they go and add some off the wall shit that makes you go what.... The Ezreal level VGUs are where it goes crazy, because a lot of what you suggest has already received considerable work, and doesn't need Ezreal level work. > > {{champion:1}} - Got a VGU. Could use expanded voice lines, but overall, fine. Does not need an Ezreal level update. > {{champion:34}} - Kit is clunky. Model is clunky. Needs a real VGU, especially if you're going to have us believe that "Goat" Dwarf Ornn is her brother. > {{champion:53}} - I'm on the fence, because I believe his hook consumes too much of his power budget, but I can let this one pass. > {{champion:131}} - A gameplay update is not an Ezreal level update. > {{champion:60}} - Looks fine, plays fine. Doesn't need anything. > {{champion:86}} - See note for Annie. > {{champion:79}} - This one actually could use an Ezreal level VGU. > {{champion:74}} - See note for Annie. > {{champion:96}} - Hell no. Needs a full VGU. He's super clunky and can be volatile in terms of balance. > {{champion:21}} - Got a visual update. She needs a new animation rigging (she has no proper recall) and a new VO. Doesn't need an Ezreal level update. > {{champion:111}} - Needs more of a visual update than anything. His gameplay is fine, could use some polish, but overall he's near perfect. So kinda, but not as dramatic as Ezreal's. > {{champion:2}} - Another hell no. See Kog'Maw note. > {{champion:133}} - Needs a bit of a visual update (her quiver is not attached to her back, her pose is also shit). Gameplay needs a lot of work. I'd say full VGU considering her needs, though more muted, like Aatrox. > {{champion:27}} - His model was updated. His kit was updated. His animations and his VO need severe updating. Not an Ezreal level update. > {{champion:17}} - Could actually use an Ezreal level update. > {{champion:18}} - What the fuck? Her update is only 4 years old. She's completely up to modern standards. She was the Ezreal level update before it was even known as the Ezreal level update. GTFO. > {{champion:45}} - Definitely needs some kit work, on top of his model. I'd say full VGU, though not an immediate Tier 1. Tier 2. > {{champion:254}} - Just no. She's fine. She could use some polish in her kit, but she doesn't need an Ezreal level update, and won't need one for many years. > {{champion:62}} - Definitely needs an Ezreal level update. His kit's clunky and frustrating for a lot of people, and he's also volatile. His visuals need a polish as well. > {{champion:115}} - Visually, he needs a slight polish, but his kit is fine. Yea, so I did some changes on the list after reading this.
Sukishoo (NA)
: Trist and Heimier have already had VGUs. Annie had a VU and is still doing fine. Garen as well had a VU plus gameplay changes later on and is fine for now.
> [{quoted}](name=Sukishoo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hfl36PfQ,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-02-11T20:06:04.810+0000) > > Trist and Heimier have already had VGUs. Annie had a VU and is still doing fine. Garen as well had a VU plus gameplay changes later on and is fine for now. I don't remember tristana, but heimer just had a gameplay update I think and not a visual update? I think he could look a bit better, but it's not very high up. Yea, Annie is kinda okay I guess. Maybe just a splash art like varus or something, but it's not very important I suppose. I think Garen gameplay wise would be helped by a ww kind of update. Keeping him simple, but more opportunities for skill expression.
AIQ (NA)
: I'll give you a pass on Garen, and after all champions that really need Visuals are done, Elise would probably be on the new list. Game play wise a lot of work needs to be done to a lot of champions even good looking ones. So I was kinda just excluding that factor.
> [{quoted}](name=AIQ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hfl36PfQ,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-11T19:58:38.114+0000) > > I'll give you a pass on Garen, and after all champions that really need Visuals are done, Elise would probably be on the new list. Game play wise a lot of work needs to be done to a lot of champions even good looking ones. So I was kinda just excluding that factor. Yea I forgett to dived the last section between Ezreal size vgu and just a normal gameplay/visual update. Like Elise might not really need any gameplay changes and isn't that bad visually, but could be helped with some visual updates. Yea fair enough
: Did you forget that Shyvana is on the tier 1 list as well?
> [{quoted}](name=Frosted Tips,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hfl36PfQ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-11T17:10:35.759+0000) > > Did you forget that Shyvana is on the tier 1 list as well? Yep, I did lol. She should be there EDIT: Just added her
AIQ (NA)
: Visual update? You might want to remove Annie because shes fine, Elise is a lot better off than a champion like Shyvana, Garen he looks fine, Hemi you serious? Trist needs visuals you gotta be kidding... right?
> [{quoted}](name=AIQ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hfl36PfQ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-11T17:01:40.643+0000) > > Visual update? You might want to remove Annie because shes fine, Elise is a lot better off than a champion like Shyvana, Garen he looks fine, Hemi you serious? Trist needs visuals you gotta be kidding... right? Ah, yes I forgot about Shyvanna. Yes she should be there! Elise is okay, but I think she might need a visual touch. Everything else is fine with her. Well, meddler said he wanted Garen to have a hiigher skill ceiling and so do I. His visuals isn't bad, but a bit generic. His age is showing a bit. Annie don't need a full vgu probably, but if you look at her model you can see that it's more like old ww model then his new for example so she might need a ww like visual update, but maybe not a full gameplay tho. Yea, I think Heimers model look a bit old, his turrets could look much better, but his gameplay is kinda fine (because I can't see how they could change him really). Yea, Tristana is maybe okay tho
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Snowbrand

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