: > [{quoted}](name=Byrdyflu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TEy4Jk1L,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-10-11T00:29:21.168+0000) > > Or scaling per shot true damage There's actually two pretty easy solutions to this without going into neither percentage maximum health nor true damage territory: 1. Adjustments to AD scaling of Turrets. 2. Adjustments to Turret Unique Passives. I'll go into the passive adjustments first. #PASSIVE CHANGES: **1. Penetrating Bullets' Armor Penetration increased to 50% from 30%.** **2. Cap on Warming Up removed and every shot now deals 50% more damage instead of 40% more damage. Stacks run off after 5 seconds without attacking an enemy champion.** This makes it so Armor isn't completely useless against Turrets, but you still have to think carefully about being under them for too long. #AD SCALING CHANGES: **1. Outer Turrets' starting AD reduced to 150 from 152.** **2. Outer Turrets now get +5 AD every minute (stopping at 10:00) instead of +4 AD every minute (stopping at 7:00). Total AD cap increased to 200 AD from 180 AD.** **3. Inner Turrets' starting AD increased to 200 AD from 170 AD.** **4. Inner Turrets now get +5 AD at 5:00 and every minute after (stopping at 20:00) instead of +4 AD at 8:00 and every minute after (stopping at 27:00). Total AD is still capped at 250 AD.** **5. Inhibitor Turrets' starting AD increased to 250 AD from 170 AD.** **6. Inhibitor Turrets now get +5 AD at 10:00 and every minute after (stopping at 30:00) instead of +4 AD at 8:00 and every minute after (stopping at 37:00). Total AD cap increased to 300 AD from 290 AD.** **7. Nexus Turrets' starting AD increased to 300 AD from 150 AD.** **8. Nexus Turrets now get +10 AD at 20:00 and every minute after (stopping at 40:00) instead of +4 AD at 8:00 and every minute after (stopping at 37:00). Total AD cap increased to 500 AD from 270 AD.** This is mostly to make Turret damage come online sooner and not make games end by 15-20 minutes. Nexus Turrets especially got a huge buff, up to 500 damage per shot that ignores 50% Armor and is increased in damage by 50% for every shot against a champion, to be precise. This is mostly because it's the last line of defense, so it should also be the strongest. #TO MAKE SURE THIS DOESN'T GET OUT OF HAND: **1. Attack Range on all Turrets lowered to 750 from 775.** **2. Attack Speed on all Turrets lowered to 0.75 from 0.83.** Turrets are supposed to hit hard, but they're neither snipers nor machine guns.
I like your first solution it's easy to do and is the most fair to all types of champions second i'm not so sure seems like a lot more difficult to manage implement and balance i think just the first solution would be enough Additionally the fortification effect where it takes X less damage from attacks should just stay on forever too that would fix the paper tower issue
Alzon (NA)
: I was more thinking something along the lines of a recent Tear of the Goddess change, where stacking Tear retains your % current mana. What if Sion’s passive worked the same way, and his HP regen were buffed?
That would work too or like vlad's passive where if he gains ap his hp stays the same but the max moves up i guess something like that would be ok too basically making the W revolve around gaining maximum hp and not also immediate hp gain thus also sustain
Rioter Comments
: I think the main thing on your most recent submission is that it feels disorganized. I can't find your thesis statement in it easily. I see that you have a ton of ideas and opinions, but there isn't any over-arching theme to those as far as I can tell. What seals the deal further is that Riot is already making some changes to the system along the lines of your first suggestion. As of today, we learned that there will be 3 slots for picking stats, which will no longer be tied to Runes. I think that you need to hone in on a specific direction for Runes changes ideas that give the proper acknowledgement to the current changes for a G+ post. Be topical and be direct. Instead of throwing out a bunch of suggestions, you need to provide strong evidence for one or a few, at most, imo.
Thanks a lot for your response. I will try to make my posts more organized in the future. also i will limit my idea's and try to make a stronger argument for the few i then post i think that should help. ''What seals the deal further is that Riot is already making some changes to the system along the lines of your first suggestion. As of today, we learned that there will be 3 slots for picking stats, which will no longer be tied to Runes.'' That was literally the entire idea behind my post, this is exactly what i was looking for :D This is great news. Thanks for sharing.
Rioter Comments
: 1. Difference between items and champions dealing with a character's strengths, one is available to everyone and the other simply is not. Otherwise might as well delete all items since they all 'negate' something in one way or another. Anti heal, mobility, CC, damage, defenses, penetration for those defenses, healing, cooldown reduction, all things you can get from items. 2. %hp damage merely helps with killing a tanky target relatively faster, it still takes longer than it would to kill a squishy target. 3. Sion's passive, while easy to deal with, still requires people to deal with it. This added on to his own tanky builds mans that you rarely want to kill Sion first due to how long it'll take and how you'll have to avoid his corpse for at least a few seconds. Yasuo's Wind Wall is not in the same vein of defenses as Sion's passive from his W. He still gets the shield, and he still benefits from defensive items. BoRK and characters like Vayne existing don't negate the fact that Sion is tanky, even if they go through him easier. The proposed change to make ultimates instant melt the Wind Wall would mean that so long as Corki is on your screen, you don't have a wind wall period. Meaning he'd practically lose a third ability just because a specific character exists in that game. Annoying though he may be, I'd rather not make champ select to make a character have 3 abilities and a passive be a thing.
Well do kind of agree with you that having an ult kill the windwall is stupid But having champions or abilities that can hard counter it is not as big of a deal either There are many instances and situations where these things happen and they are often not super problematic In yasuo's case i think OP's solutions are very good ones especially making the abilities hit box a lot smaller that would not really change the ability but would remove some of the bullshit surrounding it
: Build armor since the Bork does physical damage? He still has his shield, ton of CC, and passive that basically screams 'if you kill me you better have a plan for the aftermath' to discourage his own demise.
Armor is still a thing? it's a worthless stat right now with the insane amounts of penetration and true damage available And everything can out walk Sion's passive not to mention the cc and mobility creep The shield helps ill concede that one though, but it's not his main defensive tool that would be the passive of that ability But i think my point still stands, you can do more then just counterpick to invalidate his main defensive tool So to get back to your original point, if counter picking should not invalidate a champions main defensive tool then we should not treat sion any different then yasuo right? So yasuo keeps his current windwall and we delete all % damage deal?
: A counter pick shouldn't completely invalidate your main survival tool though. If such a change went through, any character who could break the wall quickly would basically make Yasuo unpickable unless he's against a team that wind wall won't necessarily save him from (or the enemy ADC gets glassed before they kill Yasuo).
Did you say a counter pick should not invalidate your main survival tool? Then explain {{champion:14}} vs {{item:3153}}
: Almost all champions received armor compensation in pre season for the 9 armor they lost (most gained more than 9). Which is why they're absent from runes The issue with scaling def is that no matter how much u get % reduction will shred the same portion
but what if you ran scaling armor and now you got a measly 9 in fact i would rather have scaling health these days as armour is quite useless right now sometimes i wish i could get 20% cdr out of my runes like the old days and sometimes i want hybrid penetration i lost all my options :( i dont like this new rune system at all
R0T0N (EUW)
: The Clash between Aatrox's ultimate and the rest of his kit, and a possible simple solution.
I like the idea But it could extend the ult very too much maybe What if when the 12 seconds run out your bloodwell drains over 4 seconds and heals you extending the ad buff as well for those 4 seconds but stasis idoes no longer happen Basically you heal and can keep hitting your enemies It would ensure you get some reward out of it no matter what without making you godmode for infinity duration
: Remember when there was only 2 armor pen items in the game?
squishies getting murdered by assassins is not a problem . . . tanks getting murdered because {{item:3036}} {{item:3071}} stacks so efficiently with {{item:3147}} {{item:3142}} is
: So, counterplay to Grasp gangplank as a juggernaut/tank?
well gp has to be in combat for 4 seconds before grasp happens there is your window to go apeshit on his arse the issue is people are trying to trade with him just go ham most juggernauts will demolish him before he gets sheen You do not have the luxury to to casually farm and trade or wait until he pokes you out of lane
: A case for Ohmwrecker: What can be done with this item?
There are like a million things you can do with it disable structures, not just turrets or Boost structures Imagine amping up a zz portal so it's range and spawnrate increases Or increasing a turrets damage Or making heimerdingers turrets stronger It could work on pets zap tibbers to make him bigger and badder with elctrical attacks because why the fuck not it could be something else entirely maybe it could zap and ground an enemy who attacks or damages you drop an on target cd on it to not make this a complete ass of an effect and you got yourself a cool tank item this would be the passive part of the active would zap everything around you and ground them putting the passive on cooldown too it could also work on large and epic monsters and then we turn it into OHMhulk for tank junglers because we need that I think one of the biggest problems with current ohmwrecker is that the active is completely pointless because you don't need it with the stats the item itself would already provide. and it gets ever more useless as more turrets die and you get more beefy with or more damage so you spend even less time under turret or could already sit there for a century with no issues Here is another idea for it, it can now construct a tesla coil which zaps enemies at random or targeting whover you are hitting or whoever is hitting you It's not that Riot can't think of anything to do with the item because i can fart out a million different idea's for it they just do not want to do anything with the item otherwise it would have already been done
: My thoughts on this: * I agree, both Stormrazor and Essence Reaver are horribly designed. At this point, I'd suggest deleting both of them, as both of them arguably occupy a niche that should not exist in the first place (we don't need more upfront burst, nor do we need Lucian having virtually no cooldowns for a window of time). Marksmen do need more items overall, as well as some better rush choices for sure, but I feel neither Stormrazor nor Essence Reaver satisfy that in a healthy manner, at least not in their current state. * I think now is as good a time as any to finally rework crit. Crit as a random chance to deal bonus damage has never really worked out well, as it doesn't feel particularly fair to rely on or play against (you can't really play against RNG). Moreover, there are valid fantasies that could be covered with crit that crit currently just obstructs: critical hits should be about landing exceptional attacks, whether it be lining up a headshot with Caitlyn, or getting that deadly fourth hit in as Jhin. Crits should be specific, predefined attacks that run along predictable rules that can be both exploited and outplayed, and crit itemization should cater to that by making crits even higher moments (and not necessarily just through damage). Crit marksmen should be a subclass of marksmen that rely on those critical hits within their own kits, rather than just marksmen geared towards a certain stat. The basic two stats any marksman should scale with are AD and attack speed (and sometimes CDR), and marksmen shouldn't be made dependent on a third stat just to be able to scale normally. Considering how critical strike chance exists on only one item and its upgrades (i.e. Brawler's Gloves, which builds exclusively into Zeal, which then builds into items with near-identical stats), I think it's become easier than ever before to rework crit, and remove its RNG component once and for all. * Side note, I don't think Jhin should gain bonus movement speed from his kit. Jhin was touted as this immobile marksman on release, but in practice he's shown himself to be capable of outrunning opponents and moving quite fast (with the right build, in fact, he becomes The Fast). The end result is that he's a champion with immense range, damage and crowd control, but also a substantial amount of movement speed. Removing this bonus wouldn't completely solve all of his issues, because marksman itemization offers a lot of persistent MS still, but it would allow him to be truly immobile in a vacuum at the very least.
agreed on the crit part Though i'm unsure how to make it not random besides every 4th every 3th every other attack kind of system anyway I always advocated for on crit effects, you know stuff that isn't damage, effects associated with crit which you can get from items Like LDR no longer giving plain penetration but making your crits ignore X amount of armor Or applying a bleed effect They could make a target grounded Critical hits in and of themselves could ignore a small amount of armor and do a small amount more damage like ignore 10% armor and deal 25% more damage, this would make crits less loaded and allow for a 50% crit chance item for example along with a decent chunk of AD marksmen would then have a good rush option and more item slots to tweak the rest of their build for more enhanced crits or more raw ad or defensive AD options etc I always thought of it this way imagine fighting an armored opponent you can hit the armor or you can hit in the gaps between the armor plates Or your opponent is quick so you cut his hamstring nad ground him Or you hit an artery making them bleed Specific attacks with specific effects to cripple your opponent Can even differentiate between melee and ranged on crit effects through different items
: > Why are knock-ups used instead of stuns when they are (and technically vice-versa)? A good question!!!! Here's some of the design reasons we use knockups vs. stuns. 1. Thematic Sometimes a knockup/knockback just **feels** correct thematically and it would betray player expectations to not make it so. Displacements are the easiest examples here (Lee Sin R) , but also things like Vi ult (where she literally uppercuts you into the air). In these cases using a stun (where the target didn't move) would likely feel WRONG. Imagine hitting someone with a giant water geyser and NOT seeing them move. 2. Guaranteed Power Knockups give us a strong design tool. They are CC with essentially no "counterplay" as they cannot be reduced or cleansed. If you NEED an effect to "just work" and screw over THAT CHAMP for X seconds NO MATTER WHAT then a knockup is for you. Malphite ult is a great example of this principal. Unstoppable Force is intended to be an incredibly powerful and fight altering ability. The knockup helps it achieve that, even when the enemy is running things like cleanse and QSS. 3. Satisfaction Sometimes we just want a spell to feel good. Knockups feel better than stuns because the impact is more visceral (you move the target OMG). Things that look flashier often feel better to hit. 4. Mobility Counters (EDIT:forgot to put this in original post) Because they stop dashes, knockups are a great way to give your champion a counter to an opponent's mobility tools (Volibear Roar). My personal opinion is that reasons 1 and 2 are GOOD REASONS for using knockups, while reason 3 is fine but DANGEROUS. I call 3 dangerous because in the search of "good feels" we can often forget about the importance of cleanses and tenacity in our game. Doing it every once in a while is fine, but if it becomes a trend where most spells have "knockups for the feels" the whole stun/tenacity/knockup/cleanse system can start to break down. I'd be lying to say that League hasn't experienced a good deal of "knockup" creep over the years. In regards to stun satisfaction, there are ways to have our cake and eat it too. Knockups that fade into longer stuns are one way (did you know that Nautilus R is reducible by tenacity? The knockup only lasts .5 seconds, the majority of the CC is actually a stun!). Another way is the Thresh and Nami Q approach. Both of those spells are stuns! They just "look" like knockups, but can be reduced and cleansed like normal. The cost of that approach is clarity. They work for Yasuo R but can also be Gangplank W'd? A tad confusing, but probably worth it in the long run to get the desired counterplay.
''Mobility Counters (EDIT:forgot to put this in original post) Because they stop dashes, knockups are a great way to give your champion a counter to an opponent's mobility tools (Volibear Roar).'' could this be the true culprit? i mean mobility is so ridiculous these days Also displacements are generally shorter then stuns too and with damage being so high really you can't be stunned for over 2 seconds or risk getting blown up and quite often just a second will do the trick I feel like these are the things that make stuns and snares worse options In order to make them feel satisfying and also to make them competitive vs displacements they need to last longer or hit more targets Yet if you do not happen to have that QSS you are royally screwed But when stuns are comparable to displacements in duration then you pick the champion with the displacement because that is plain stronger I do not think that a displacement is necessarily more flashy While in essence it is, visuals and audio play a big role and a stun can be made to look really flashy if that is the goal. There are other forms of cc Silence it has been removed from a lot of champions because it felt bad to play against (hint, displacements feel bad to play against) but at least you could move and basic attack Then grounded was introduced but we hardly see that mechanic used anymore. The only other thing besides enormous amounts of displacements seems to be slows, often spammable and everywhere therefore also leaving little counter play but it's not as bad as being stunned for 4 seconds because you can still fight back. If damage was lower there would be a place for other cc besides short displacements and slows. And if mobility was not so rampant we would need less tools to stop it. In fact many of the champions we want to stop using displacements happen to have blinks or untargetable or even unstoppable dashes or use stealth. So stopping mobility is fine and all but i feel like displacements are hardly the best tool when it is getting circumvented in champion designs . I think bringing down damage would be the best solution though, it would make uncounterable cc less oppressive as it would not be an immediate death sentence this leaves room for other forms of cc along with more useful anti mobility tools In fact i can think of 1 at least new form of cc to deal with mobility slippery - this new form off cc affects mobility, as it makes you slide along in the direction you went into and also affects turn rate by making it slower and yyou can't simply stop moving into the direction you want to Usable in 2 ways, boost allied mobility for engage/escape thwart enemy mobility. doesn't affect low mobility champions much This seemed like an interesting mechanic to me at least I think both satisfaction and mobility counters are non arguments to say the least, though we do need more mobility counters sadly. Thematic and guaranteed power i can totally get behind sometimes it just makes sense or sometimes you need an ability to something particular. malphite/sion ult
: Everything does too much damage for two reasons.
It's a big component indeed, but one that mostly increases the speed at wich people acquire that damage However the increased ambient damage did just flatout increase overall However full cdr is now more easy then ever to accomplish for damage builds as well Even for basic attack based damage dealers who are now also spamming their spells frequently which impacts both ambient damage direct damage stage at which more damage is acquired etc we should not forget this one And let's not forget the increases in % damage, penetration and true damage also penetration used to work differently, flatpen was applied before % pen and there was less of it now it works they other way around and there is a greater amount of flatpen(lethality) to grab Meanwhile defensive items have shifted more towards resistances over health With pen being stronger and true damage running rampant defensive builds are getting cucked harder then ever what good will 500 armor do if 400 of it is negated The one thing Riot could do immediately to alleviate some of this is make flat pen apply before % pen again
: Runes vs Runes Reforged: Improving gathering storm
You sir are correct It's a bit meh because it keeps lagging behind other runes all the time it doesnt feel smooth or impactful Personally not a fan of stats per level because that also promotes snowballing Which due to shorter games because of it is also counter intuitive to a late game scaling rune. Lets not turn this into a If i get ahead ill get ahead hard and if i didn't use that to win ill outscale you anyways and still win the game rune I think it needs something else I think scaling with time is the best option but 10 minutes is too long 5 would be better 2,5 might be too short i wouldn't know for sure though It could just give 1ad/2ap per minute for example and an extra 1ad/2ap every 5th minute for smooth scaling for example Alternatively it could work like conditioning after 10 minutes gain AD/AP adaptive then gain X% bonus This way you gain increased stats out of it whenever you get more stats whether that be leveling up or building damage Though i think this would still be worse then time related scaling as it is still snowball sensitive Or it could be a combination of the above mentioned options **I would prefer this solution** after 5 minutes Gain + 5% AD/AP adaptive + 1 / 2 per level + and extra 1 /2 every 10th minute which keeps doubling up so 1 / 2 then 3 / 6 then 6 / 12 and so fort in addition to the 1/2 per level More smooth scaling and starts impacting the game a bit faster too At minute 30 this would give 25AD / 50AP + 7 AD /14 AP + 5 % At minute 60 this would give 55 AD / 110 AP + 63AD /126AP + 5% Which is kind of a lot lol might need tuning, then again at level 30 it's nothing serious yet and it will start really getting strong at 40+ minutes But the numbers aren't very important here that can be easily tuned if needed
: Even as someone who plays mostly AD champions I feel like I don't _need_ the AD from GA. It's felt a lot less good to buy ever since the recipe got changed from {{item:1057}} + {{item:1031}} + money to {{item:1038}} + {{item:1029}} + money, especially when I'm an ADC who's dying to mages but doesn't _necessarily_ want to buy or rely on a {{item:3156}}. That's just me, though. If I had my way, {{item:3102}} would be an item with purely defensive stats that anyone could build and have a {{item:1057}} component, and {{item:3001}} would still be a mage item.
Yep i liked the previous iterations better too They changed GA to AD because Marksmen used to buy it as one of their defensive options and that was alright in riots eyes. But eventually everyone was buying it, courtesy of damage trending upwards, but now everyone felt like a shitty target to kill. So riot changed it. Ofc they had to add damage to it because damage was not high enough yet
: The Dilemma of Nasus: Strong in lower elo and weak in higher elo
A long long time ago in a thread far far away I said something similar about Nasus so this isn't anything new However my fix was a bit different i advocated for a new passive This new passive would be his stacking mechanic, however it was now able to stack all of his abilities Kill stuff with E it gets stronger more damage mild slow Kill enemies under the effect of W it gets stronger more attackspeed slow more armorshred lower cooldown Kill stuff with Q it gets stronger like increased life steal and damage I made some other changes like moving the armor shred to W but reducing the slow effect And with stacks in E it would get a mild slow so i spread his cc a bit Additionally E and W could be combined sort of to allow for a different ability Well you get the point The end goal of this idea was quite simple give more tools for sticking to target hence some of the spreading of his slows And second, to allow for different forms of scaling, this way you are not solely reliant on stacking Q This would make Nasus less one dimensional
: The answer to this problem is dont watch or participate in anything worlds related and do not purchase any RP until Riot realizes it needs its players not the other way around. {{sticker:garen-swing}}
pretty much this nobody needs Riot they need us players & payers without us they cease to exist A small boycott to remember them of this little fact wouldn't be such a bad idea
ßøss (NA)
: Yorick was nerfed because he was a Low Elo pubstomper
{{champion:11}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:24}} what about these arent they doing the same thingas yorick was
: Why Urgot needs some love.
what exactly is the problem with urgot being able to build{{item:3748}} everyone always points that out but never bothers to explain why what exactly does it do for him anyway +1% of his health on damage to a target Is it the 2,5% cone effect Both i assume would be reduced to 1/3 effect during W just like any other on hit effect And in that case i don't see an issue It gives him slightly better ranged waveclear like over 70% of league champs already have anyways just make the guy melee already i dont see the issue convince me otherwise
: Non-Standard Item Builds: Yes or No?
Yes you are just a bit smarter then most of the meta following sheep They trash it because they do not comprehend the strategy behind it and so they project what they would do with a champion on to you and see your build does not match that play style so its ''trash'' If it works it works ! Personally i play(ed) all kinds of weirdass builds and playstyles ever since i started Some of which became a regular thing because it worked funny thing is those same people who trash you will do the same thing you did a year from now and still call you trash when you are already inventing the future meta some people create and lead and some people are sheeple
: That still discourages teamplay :| + cc chaining already has the risk of people escaping: if you're 0.1 second too slow with firing off your cc in a chain, soneone will just dash out.
if you have 3/2 second stuns you just fire the new cc 0.5 seconds in advance yea you wont be rooted for 5 seconds but for 4.5 instead big whoop ur still dead a 10k health sion activating stoneplate doesn't even last that long
: I agree, though it's not so much that damage has increased a ton - it's more that defensive capabilities have been reduced a ton.
both actually but i also blame the dumb amounts of penetration and % damage in the game and now recently true damage Try playing an AD tank like sion and see how even base stat resists scale up to negate a lot of your damage and then realize your armor isnt worth a damn you end up grabbing cinderhulk and building AD items just so you can roam around blowing up anything squishier then you because that is just more effective then building tank these days
: Hey I'll give a quick insight into how I view good enchanter gameplay * Spells that put more power into other champs can only make up a minority of my power budget * Healing, shielding and buffing tools fall into this category * Good examples - > nami & bard * Overall my actions encourage champs to fight each other * Janna and lulu have been problematic here where they can feel like an impenetrable defense * My success and failures are clear and reflect my skill or good decision making * Many good examples here. Sona has some of these problems when she had too much power in "just be an aura"
> [{quoted}](name=RiotScruffy,realm=NA,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=GIWBugod,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2018-08-22T21:14:57.143+0000) > > Hey I'll give a quick insight into how I view good enchanter gameplay > > > * Spells that put more power into other champs can only make up a minority of my power budget > * Healing, shielding and buffing tools fall into this category I wanted to adress this i think you can put 100% of a champions power budget there without the current issues Not saying you should i think that would not make for a fun champion to play One of the major problems is a lack of synergy with these spells and many of the champions it tends to come down to heals shields and attackspeed buffs which primarily benefit just marksmen And while you can have champions who pump power into other champions you can easily also do the opposite a debuff enchanter Why are there no enchanters who make tanks deal damage imagine that the world upside down instead of making carries tanky you turn tanks into carries {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}} have a spell which turns your armor into AP/AD poof done But seriously enchanters should have the option to support all kinds of champions some might synergize better with particular classes or champions that's fine imagine if enchanters could make your entire team deal bonus damage to objectives or other such things opens up whole new team comp options There are like a trillion things enchanters could do TBH but we are hardstuck with ~~enchanters ~~ marksmen buffsticks It takes real effort to be that uncreative
: On the right champions, Atma's is a slightly absurd amount of stats. {{champion:122}} {{item:3071}} {{item:3742}} {{item:3065}} {{item:3143}} {{item:3005}} gets 20 up to 100 bonus AD while in combat, which is 140 more damage on Q, 150 more damage on passive bleed, and 75 more damage on ult. {{champion:6}} {{item:3071}} {{item:3022}} {{item:3005}} {{item:3742}} {{item:3065}} also gets 100 bonus AD, which is 100 extra damage per knee and 540 extra damage over W's duration. It might just be stats, but it's not difficult to see the difference 100 AD makes when you're familiar with how much damage your champion does with a slightly different build.
{{champion:14}} {{item:3047}} {{item:3161}} {{item:3005}} {{item:3071}} {{item:3748}} {{item:3065}} i mean why not right, just run around with 6k health 160 ish armor and 120 ish mr however you also get 70/140 flat damage reduction considering the runes i'd run i would end up with close to around 500 AD too absurd is the name of the game now imagine if instead of 30 minutes the game would last over 60 O.0 who is going to fight that 10k health 700 AD Sion any volunteers?
Alzon (NA)
: One thing to note is that Shojin’s damage reduction is applied BEFORE resistances, so it becomes less efficient as you gain more resistances. I would never build it on Nautilus, or anyone who builds a resistance item other than boots and perhaps Maw.
however on sion it is very doable you can get a lot of health and resistances are nice but tend to be ignored a lot due to true damage and penetration so might as well get this baby {{item:3047}} {{item:3161}} {{item:3005}} {{item:3071}} {{item:3748}} {{item:3065}} i mean why not right, just run around with 6k health 160 ish armor and 120 ish mr however you also get 70/140 flat damage reduction considering the runes i'd run i would end up with close to around 500 AD too And that is your average game, any game going for 60+ will get very unpleasant for the enemy team lol
Shahamut (NA)
: My thoughts on Skarner's Spires [Long Post]
Honestly skarner would be better off with a bard like passive Gathering crystals Passive could be like so: Every 3th attack skarner stings his opponent poisoning them Poison deals 10 to 180 based on level + 5% health damage Then the amount of crystals you collect give added effects Increased damage a slow increasing with more crystals A grounded effect at certain threshold increasing to full length of poison duration after gathering even more crystals Crystals collected could also give other stats or abilities this is just an example we have a few of these collecting champions like thresh and bard one more would be nice and it fits his lore He is collecting all these crystals right he could borrow their power for a bit as he has to lug them around until he gets back to his kind
: CT designs are some of the best designs in this game
the good ole {{champion:157}} {{champion:201}} {{item:3047}} botlane It's so nasty for enemy adc's lol You can actually get away with building defensive items like {{item:3047}} {{item:3143}} on yasuo too i'm not saying you should rush them doh But his double crit passive means you need only 2 crit items for full crit and with conqueror rune + {{item:3031}} you don't even need armorpen anyway So unlike other carries you get the benefit of 4 items for the price of 2 items and a rune. That's some solid bullshit lol. Also CDR is hardly relevant for him nor doe he use resources can you imagine fighting {{champion:157}} {{item:3047}} {{item:3031}} {{item:3046}} {{item:3812}} {{item:3143}} {{item:3026}} As an adc with a {{champion:201}} {{item:3047}} {{item:3143}}{{item:3109}} + whatever backing him up If there is ever not a shield blocking your attacks you will hardly deal any damage at all to him Just needs a{{champion:98}} toplane and a {{champion:24}} jungle abd {{champion:39}} mid for ultimate shits and giggles Just imagine the salt of the enemy carry lmao Anyways some of the more recent CT designs are good But Yasuo is not fine. My reason for that is simple He is overloaded with stats some more obvious then others, Like his shield and his bonus arpen on ult as well as the free crit Others are less obvious, the utter lack of cooldowns and being resourceless to boot Where some champions have to go out of their way to make sure they get the mana they need or the cdr they require yasuo doesn't have to his free crit enable him to get all he needs from 2 items and the lack of need for other stats because he either gets them from kit for free or gets them from his runes and is 2 mandatory items gives him extreme build flexibility and makes him auto snowball as well And he still has handholding mechanics thrown into his kit I have no beef with CT as he does make fun champs but some of his earlier designs suck from a balance point of view imho
: Wouldn't this create the problem of the tank item being less useful? I understand a bit of what and why. It allows tanks to do better in the jungle But after the jungle farming phase, Or you pick a more gank-friendly jungler (Like warwick), Having an item that's anti-jungle seems like it'd be a trade-out item. Wouldn't it be better for it to have a lesser sapping barbs effect on Champions?
I think that would be ok depending on how much of an effect it has I am all for these kinds of interactions, because they force more decision making and give reasons to not attack a tank This has the beneficial effect of not directly increasing a tanks damage unless **you** attack them and continue to do so As a result, if you not want to take that damage then you do not attack that tank. Which means said tank lives longer not because of tank stats but because it was not beneficial to attack them in the first place. This was how tanks worked historically, it was a waste to try and kill them, you could not do it quick enough before you died yourself, let alone do it on your own in a 1v1 which led to some problems, well more like whining assassins and skirmishers. Right now it doesn't matter as mr tank dies about as fast as anyone else so if you can hit him you just do it since there are no consequences and in 1v1 scenario's they are utterly pointless atm Not that they ever had much chance to kill you it still took a long time but if you kept slapping each other they would likely win due to their bulk but then again you could just dash and blink away so no big deal. I think stuff like this where attacking a tank punished you with damage, cc or other debuffs is a way to make tanks beefier in teamfights and more manageable in 1v1's Since there would be other consequences
: League needs to bring back Dominion
Yes i really liked dominion as a fast paced game mode I never understood why riot removed then tried to turn summoners rift into dominion All it did was create an abomination that drove people away
Tyswow (NA)
: League Feels Bad. Why? Three areas of change that have been Ruining League of Legends slowly. Stop!
I disagree a bit with the rework part While it isn't wrong I think riot has done many pointless reworks aswell Like Yorick for example, had barely any play rate and was annoying to play against. what exactly changed with the rework :S the ulti is kind of meh too they missed a golden opportunity here. Keep some of the old ulti alive by allowing yorick to revive fallen allies within an aura around him as ghouls, modified ofc think of it as everyone having a sort of sion passive as long as yorick has the ult activated and they are near him chaos and fun guaranteed Some champions are simply too hard to keep balanced though too much work and then some indirect changes ruin all of it. And if that champion does not support a large player base or popularity i can see why they would do a rework. However in some cases there is a mismatch between lore/theme and kit and in that case many of the reworks changed the champion to match the theme or lore which led to the creation of a new champion kit wise and in some cases the lore and them got changed too which means it's basically a totally different champion I think here it would have been better to change the theme to keep the feel of the champion in some cases.
: Riot needs a way for players to view the NET changes of ANY champion/item from ANY patch
Agreed this is good I was really happy with the recent update where i can compare my champions stats with other players of that champion Apparently my Sion playstyle is quite different then many other Sion players Something like this would be really nice to add on to that
Trogmar (NA)
: Best tanks that could damage
It's funny how nobody mentioned {{champion:14}} The king of noob crushers {{item:3009}} {{item:3142}} {{item:3071}} {{item:3022}} {{item:3083}} {{item:3193}} Oh and be a good lad and grab inspiration secondary for the +10 movement on boots and approach velocity so you can run 15% faster if you slow people For primary runes i would suggest preciSion with conqueror and presence of mind, that way you can penetrate these worms harder and ult more often so you can build a bigger pile of corpses The fun part of the build is that you can play hyper aggressive as there is no point in killing you since that would be suicide for the enemy
: Tank changes for 8.16
Fine Sion changes. I did some posts a while back where i asked for some buffs as he was plummeting in play and winrate and they came down to buff Q damage and buff W And look, Q damage buffed recently and now we get a W buff Totally different from what i suggested but i think these will work fine as they follow a similar principle to what i was suggesting, more reliable trades on Q and better reward ( scaling) for playing well something Sion was lacking My idea was making W damage scale with Sion health, bit more volatile, and it would have worked differently towards making him more beefy. one way being to have enemies stay clear of him for example. anyway this buff to his bulk will help a lot since Sion lacks the base armor, mr and health. The only thing that concerns me is his lack of sustain. He tends to get a decent amount of health if doing well and then you are forced to recall or build warmogs for sustain or hope you can snatch an early ocean drake. The other option for sustain is runepages that are not resolve ironically A simple hp regen growth buff to match his growing health pool would be sufficient after all you still have to deal with splitpush and siege and the like. **On tanks in general though i'm not sure if this will fix anything yet.** Tanks lack a clear purpose these days. With damage running so rampant their cc is less needed nor are their tanking capabilities. many carries these days have plenty of cc to get the job done and enough damage to not have to dive any longer then 1 or 2 turret hits. baron, mountain drake and herald also helps vs turrets later down the line. Tanks also tend to die way too fast in a teamfight these days, because of the high amounts of damage but also the sheer amount of ways to ignore shred or bypass their defenses all because some time ago people went crying about how they couldn't 1v1 420 quickscope mr tank You already need to itemize vs mutiple damage sources meaning you get less item slots then that damage dealing opponent but now they either use your defense against you or ignore them or shred them as well which makes lategame sometimes feel like playing vs 6 item opponents with 1 & 1/2 item. I think the right way to fix this is to make resistances a bit more meaningful again because that is really very necessary. Alternative defenses vs dps style damage helping to defend vs true damage a bit **We need ways to disincentive attacking a tank** Like ohmwrecker, it can lose its pointless active and gain a new passive. This passive will zap and enemy if it attacks/ casts on you dealing X damage and grounding enemy for X time has a cooldown per target to not make it oppressive Or a reworked frozen hearth, it can lose the attack speed slow aura. It would gain + immunity to lifesteal + Decaying movement and attack speed slow of enemy attacking you targeted cooldown because perma slow is toxic + on death explode like a blizzard damaging and slowing everyone near you, it doesn't have to be nuclear just has to be inconvenient These are just example idea's that would make an enemy think twice about attacking or killing you in a teamfight which forces strategic thinking, you have to attack the tank or else he will be disruptive all the time but attacking him will leave you vulnerable and isn't very rewarding so you can attack him you just have to think better about how and when. Effects like these will make a tank more ''tanky'' by making enemies less willing to attack you all the time because it might not be beneficial to do so. These kinds of effects will help keep tanks manageable in 1v1 scenario's because they do not directly increase their bulk and damage yet help make them stay alive and disruptive in teamfights. It also helps in giving tanks back one of their roles, like anti mobility. **I also think we need a better resolve rune tree, ** Like i pointed out tanks need better defenses it's a little too easy to bypass them now and there is a lot of true damage and % damage as well Tanks also need help with jungling and in regaining some measure of use dealing with objectives vs damage dealing opponents I would specifically like to rework the tier 3 with demolish, font of life and bone plating. I never see anyone using font of life anyway besides trolly off builds and demolish seems to be getting rare as well which isn't surprising as it only has 1 use which becomes less useful as more towers fall in the game. Here is my proposal, remove font and replace by unyielding :) Unyielding: Penetration and shred has 25% less effect on you Boneplating Reduce incoming damage by 2 % of bonus health Demolish Charge up a powerful attack vs a neutral objective or tower over 4 seconds when withing 600 range etc. Pretty much the same thing except it can now be used vs buff monsters, scuttle crab, dragon, herald and baron as well The base 175 damage could be removed to prevent abuse.
: I touched on it on another post, but we're doing some short term work to siphon out some damage from runes. One of the directions we're currently testing with Electrocute is decreasing both the damage and the cd (get the proc more frequently, but with reduced payout). We're not going quite to TL levels, but that's a rough model we're shooting for. Just going to go ahead and drop the current list in here for you guys to discuss. This will also be on the PBE tomorrow. Electrocute Damage :: 50-220 (+50%bAD)(+30%AP) >>> 30-180 (+40%bAD)(+25%AP) Cooldown :: 50-25 >>> 25-20 Cheap Shot Damage :: 15-40 >>> 8-40 Sudden Impact Lethality Bonus :: 10 >>> 7 Magic Penetration Bonus :: 8 >>> 6 Celerity Bonus Movement Speed converted to Attack Damage :: 9.6% >>> 6% Bonus Movement Speed converted to Ability Power :: 16% >>> 10% Scorch Damage :: 20-60 >>> 10-30 Cooldown :: 20 >>> 10 Notably, there's some runes like Aery and Comet not included in this list which are cited pretty frequently, they likely also need more work in terms of gameplay that isn't just simply some number shifts (we're still talking about them though)
{{champion:14}} {{item:3070}} I knew it First nerf Sion then nerf what made him strong Brings back memories of cinderhulk Can you guys this time keep an eye out for him and not wait 2,5 years before doing anything Thnx in advance
Leto GT (EUW)
: Maybe you can make a thread out of this. Tanks discussion should be pushed further on the board imo. Can you detail your first point though? I hardly see which champion de you refer to too. Xayah for the instance?
I will probably make a thread about very soon when i have some time. Not quite sure which first point you are referring too? did you mean the cc on non tanks their bulk or something else? I mean if it;s the cc there champions like jinx, jhin, ashe and i guess xaya too can match many tanks they aren't the most mobile although you could make a case forjhin xaya being mobile though Yet the point stands anyways the amounts of cc a carry can bring makes the tank almost obsolete when they will die almost as quickly as them.
Leto GT (EUW)
: Regarding tanks and Meddler post.
While you pointed out some of the issues you forgot a big one, CC almost every champion has large amounts of CC these days another reason why tanks where essential the big guy in front who could stop you in your tracks peel you off. One of the reasons this was so good was that it was not very smart to use you damage against that nbig boy as he was very very tough and it was a waste of cooldowns However tanks these days die almost as fast as anyone else to pretty much almost everyone **So much true damage and penetration around you can't live as a tank and don't forget the over abundance of % damage either** Any sort of damage will outscale your defense as well and let's not forget as a tanks you have to defend vs multiple kinds of damage too so less slots vs offense and your stats in those slots get outscaled and to make it worse the enemy can shred or bypass a large amount of them as well Armor in particular needs to be better, it feels more like a single layer of toilet paper these days, and stacking pen needs to be less effective The easy way to go about this is to have flat pen apply before % pen Then have all tank armor items gain a bit more armor like +5 or something like that **Tanks also need additional ways to defend themselves to help them stay alive and there are plenty of ways to do this.** The first way is through stats, not your typical health/armor/magic resist But things like regeneration for better in combat sustain like the old warmogs for example Or something similar to boneplate, in fact boneplate could be changed to scale with a % of bonus hp instead of giving a flat value it could also last for more hits or even be permanent to help defend against smaller amounts of damage and to help in dealing with true damage as well Speaking of runes I think changing boneplate this way would be good but we would need a strong alternative in the same spot. Font of life could take a hike and be replaced by a different rune Let's just name it unyielding :P It makes you 25% less affected by penetration and armor/mr shred for example The other way to make tanks more beefy is to have new item effects which punish you for attacking that tank similar to what thornmail does Remember old randuins? it slowed you whenever you attacked someone who had it. Wel let's see if we can replicate a similar effect Ohmwrecker could have a new passive instead of the stupid active no one needs, that new passive would be, if you are attacked zap that enemy for X damage scaling with defenses and ground them for 1 second You see one way to make tanks last longer is to disincentive an enemy to attack that tank. This does nothing when you stumble into the enemy team out of position ofc but it will make that ADC think twice about hitting you when there is this Zed lurking nearby which leads to my final point **And tanks need new ''roles'' and ''strengths''** Tanks seem to lack clear roles and strengths these days when that marksmen down botlane has as much cc as you and is more beefy due to lifesteal (i know slight hyperbole but it gets the point across) So tanks need some Strengths and uses that are both needed in today's league and are currently lacking Anti mobility for example one of the former strengths of a tank mostly due to cc but now many champions have that and it doesn't seem to help that much because of the insane amount of mobility creep Something like the previously mentioned ohmwrecker passive is what i'm looking for here. But there are other ways to disrupt enemy mobility, like an item which makes you impassable to dashes ( sorry shen) this would allow you to block an enemies movements by stopping them mid dash. or what about a small anti blink or dash aura doubling the skills cooldown time, better not blink near the enemy tank. Personally i feel like we should move away from totempole tanks stacking shit like frozen hearth abyssal mask locket etc, riot has been removing these aura's which is good imho since they are not interactive at all. the only exception to me would be items like sunfire to allow tanks to have some dps output and make them threatening Items like frozen hearth could be reworked to have totally different effects. You could explode upon death freezing all nearby enemies slowing and damaging them It could make you immune to lifestealing it could still slow attackspeed but only upon being attacked and then at a far greater amount because it's no longer a passive aura. Tanks need to become disruptive again in teamfights but in a more interactive way and need access to unique ways to slow down mobility and discourage enemies from attacking them
Tyswow (NA)
: Bring back old runes - Give them to everyone for free - Make reccomended pages for new players.
But bbbut BUTT RITO wanted tot give us CHOICE RITO wanted to have us make MEANINGFULL DECISIONS Between 1 keystone in 1 runepath because the rest of them doesn't fit your champion
: As someone who mains toplane and mains {{champion:122}}. I tried playing Sion teleport for a few games..... fuck me that was a bad experience. {{champion:133}} burn this champ at the stake ty Also I am personally stopping myself from taking ignite, in hope that my enemy laner doesn't kill himself after playing against me.
The only use for teleport on {{champion:14}} 1. cheese enemy buff + first wave to troll bot your lane opponent and enemy jungler 2. after 6 ult down midlane or botlane into immobile opponents your kit at that point has enough damage to oneshot them with a full combo you can then teleport back to lane after stealing all your allies cs and killing one two or 3 enemies Not sure how you used it but that is pretty much what teleport is for I mean it takes 4,5 seconds to teleport then at least 2-3 seconds before you can contribute anything usefull due to your slow ass kit by then your enemy has recalled Other then that i would suggest smite as it has a really short cooldown for a combat summoner and you can then grab cinderhulk Ignite has it's uses for obvious reasons Or be cheesy and grab exhaust not many people do this and you can use it to bait enemies into tower diving and get double kills because they forgot about it Or use it a split second prior to your death and get an easy revenge kill It's often better then ignite or barrier in a 1v1 fight in terms of how much damage it blocks vs how much ignite deals And it can be used to peel in team fights right now teleport is really bad and i wouldn't really take it on Sion anymore
Tyswow (NA)
: The old runes could easily co exist with the new system.
it actually did we had runes and we had mastery trees now we have mastery trees which where renamed to rune paths ofc with more bonkers keystones just to pigeonhole champs into 1 or 2 optimal paths wow such innovation Look at the insane amount of options we have we can now make meaningful choices between 1 rune tree with 1 keystone
: Not to mention missing out on AS from taking precision Fleet Footwork is just better in almost all situations
it would help vs burst to have the extra health i can see how this could be useful stacked with bone plating, over heal and a BT for example vs assassins
: The lack of Consistency from Riot makes LoL so hard to continue loving+playing. (TL;DR at end)
I think riot is very consistent {{champion:14}} is strong due to E max nerf and leave to rot 2 seasons later {{champion:14}} Sion is strong due to cinderhulk nerf and leave to rot 2 seaons later {{champion:14}} is strong again due to E spam nerf and leave to rot 2 seasons later I mean it's meme worthy consistency at this point
: > [{quoted}](name=Spoofghoul,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ypwcVN4E,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-06-17T10:29:26.575+0000) > > Well i have to say i can live with most changes but ther is this one thing that seems to happen every time > > Sion is good sion get's his foot cut off and left limping and rotting for another 2 years or so > > maybe they could stop doing that > > that would be really nice Ah I don't play Sion much. I usually like when my main gets nerfed because it means I will likely get to play them every game, and won't be banned or picked. Is it that bad? Thanks for the comment by the way
Well the current scenario is very similar to what happened with season 5 cinderhulk And about 2 years before that, surprise surprise E spam They just gut him and ignore him for 2 years :S It's meme worthy really
: I think sion is in a really weird state, much like the other tanks in the game currently. I think you're right on the idea that he is more of a risky pick in comparison to other tanks, but tanks IN GENERAL are in a really bad state right now. The problem with sion is if you miss your ult, or if the enemy simply flashes, you have no way to get out and you get fucking DESTROYED byt the ridiculous amount of damage that is in the game right now. But, other tanks have the same problem too so it's just frustrating as a whole if youre a tank player.
Yea but that is more of a damage problem even if that was sorted Sion would still be in a weird spot He lost his strong early game which i am fine with but he still doesn't scale at all There basically is no reward for any of his risks and he is pigeonholed well more like forced into the E max strategy in his current situation It's not at all hard to fix but Riot seems unwilling to do so which is frustrating
: I mean I've half quit because they nerfed my champions out if existence. The game is also just not fun. It feels awful to play and even winning isn't very satisfying anymore
{{champion:14}} {{item:3070}} Riot decided he wasn't limping hard enough They didn't even get rid of E max it's still there In fact right now it's the only viable way of play They only did half the changes necessary to his kit as usual In typical riot fashion they nerfed everything that wasn't an issue Then nerfed what was Then nerfed what made him strong outside of his kit Seems like an awfully familiar scenario didn't they do that in season 5 too And now nobody bothers playing him anymore Maybe they will look at him in season 10 again witht he typical excuse of hey he isn't popular he has close to 0% playrate so why bother Yea well who made that happen eh
: A falling tree makes more noise than a growing forest.
Well i have to say i can live with most changes but ther is this one thing that seems to happen every time Sion is good sion get's his foot cut off and left limping and rotting for another 2 years or so maybe they could stop doing that that would be really nice
Rioter Comments
: Experiment: Community Patch Notes
{{champion:14}} Base stats hp regeneration growth increased to reach highest among all champions But it starts off low at 5hp/5 Sion starting the agme with double beads and brushing off trades does not give interactive game play in lane however as he gains levels farm and items his health pool will grow and potentially get very big so he heeds a way to stay topped off when dealing with slit pushing Tryndameres and Trundles as Sion has no other means to sustain himself Q 40-100% damage when charging up instead of 33%-100% Leveling Q gives it the same damage to minions as it does to monsters While all the recent changes helped us deal with Sion dominating now that banner is gone and his poke mage style leaves him underwhelming we are still seeing that it is the most prevalent ability to be ranked up Which lead us to finnaly see the real problem, Q is simply too unreliable and stilld oesn't match up in acquiring the CS needed to to fuel stat growth Therefore we are making Q more reliable which should make it a more viable ability to rank u by making it a little better in quick trades and farming that health W the damage part now scales with Sion's health and the cap vs monsters and minions is removed In order for Sion's damage to remain threatening throughout the game we decided that W would be the best case to provide scaling. Since the more recent changes Sion's damage seems lack luster once entering mid game and onward. Seeing as Sion only gets less reliable at dealing damage because everything is so telegraphed and requires charging or ramping up and enemies get ever more mobile. We felt it appropriate to make misplays a little more punishing considering this mostly increases the damage vs targets that shouldn't stick around Sion for too long or have no business being there at all looking at mages and marksmen. With half an hour of time to keep him down and prevent him from gaining massive amounts of health to fuel the damage 3 seconds of a heads up to get out or destroy the shield getting hit by it should be a little more punishing we feel this was an appropriate change to allow for better scaling. And since it's no longer scales with enemies health it won't be nuking elder dragon for inappropriate amounts of damage so we got rid of that part, Overall this leaves the big guy in a good spot by making his lanephase more interactive yet determined by skill expression. Do well and you have the ability to scale well. Sion inherently has a lot of risks and needed a better reward for doing well as he didn't really have any compared to his peers.
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Spoofghoul

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