: Season 5 maybe was not perfect but it was fun..
S5 also had lots of champs diversity. Every support was viable and most of them were equally good, now enchanters have been dominating since support itemization got updated. There was lots of diversity mid too, now you either pick a burst mage or {{champion:163}} {{champion:4}} and gank bot so your ADC gets fed. The only good things this season had were skins, lores, splash arts and VGUs, the rest of this season was garbage along with all the shitty champions it brought ({{champion:164}}{{champion:498}} were probably the only champions I liked, {{champion:427}} {{champion:516}} {{champion:141}} {{champion:497}} were dogshit no offense).
: A cool nami buff idea
Honestly I'm living for this. Whenever I use her ult I don't feel powerful, I don't feel the strength of water. Elementalist Lux's R in water form gives me a better feeling of "destructive water stream" but Nami's R just fails to make me feel like I'm playing the tidecaller.
: Im sorry, the old Evelyn can't come to the phone right now...why? Cuz she's dead !!
Omfg wtf is wrong with people who don't even get the meme. Look what you made me do was a shitty song, ok, but why are people ignoring gay memes seriously this shit needs to stop
: Why does new Eve look so spidery?
I agree. She looks like a Bratz or some shit like that in the new splash art. I'm kind of surprised because they've never disappointed me with splash arts but now they did.
inplane (NA)
: Weekly reminder that Taliyah's W is still missing a proper targeting indicator.
Seriously Riot should be ashamed for this. I actually for the first time in my life upvoted you twice with another account, it is absolutely ridiculous that it is taking so long for such a little change. Also, vector cast should be fucking removed. None asked for it and many people complained about it and stopped playing the champ right after that stupid uncalled change.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: September 20
Hey, do you have anything to say about {{champion:267}}? I feel like she's really balanced but compared to other enchanters you're kinda making the game harder for yourself when you play Nami. One of the reasons why it's because she's extremely unforgiving, especially when it comes to her mana problems. Could she get some kind of buff to her W? Or could she get more mana regen after pre season hits with the new runes? I don't know if I'll be able to enjoy this champ without my mana regen quints.
: Lol the ignorance of low elo
These people are like "Nah Garen isn't bad" and get upvoted. Meanwhile a guy with 1800 games on Garen said Garen is the worst juggernaut and got a lot of upvotes https://media.giphy.com/media/NORFfJzhC6iPe/200.gif
Abibyama (EUW)
: Yeah let's the boards balance instead. What could go wrong?
: Well it's still better then leaving her as a shield and heal bot that presses q from time to time
Part of what you said is true, but Riot could have taken another approach with Janna. Trying to make Janna interactive with a 18/16/14/12/10 seconds shield (and she only gets 10 seconds shield when she reaches level 9 aka when the laning phase is over/almost over and enchanters stop poking) just doesn't make sense.
: Your Shop got me thinking about my problem with skins
Janna changes are gonna make me stop playing Janna, and you know what's sad? I spent 15€ for forecast Janna and now I won't play Janna anymore. I love Janna, I love her kit, quotes, lore etc... I was expecting a W complete rework + a passive mini/complete rework with a big E nerf, instead, they made Lulu 2.0. Your reasons and this one are also why I stopped buying skins. I'd like to keep supporting the game buying something I like, but it's just not worth for skins anymore.
: Twitch has been terrorizing solo queue all season and has an amazing winrate in pros
People have been complaining about Twitch ever since the assassin rework went live and he still hasn't been touched, Brand getting mana refund on W when he clears minion waves with his W->E combo, Janna changes... there's so much bullshit here that I won't even talk about those. Just the fact that they are trying to make Janna interactive with an 18/16/14/12/10 sec shield + Ivern buffs when he had 51% win rate assured me that the balance team is BEYOND clueless. Also, let's not forget the iconic "Ekko fares pretty well against mages when his cooldowns are up, so we’re giving him the tools to engage more often." Kalista can get nerfed because she doesn't deserve to be viable but Lee Sin can get some buffs whenever he isn't dominating the jungle in both pro play and soloq.
: Today i was called a "Thresh god" by an ally
Sona and Lulu = Nunu. At least your teammates say "gj raka" when you ult at the right time and you save them from that 1v1 they wouldn't have won without your ult. Also you got downvoted by Sona, Soraka and Lulu mains and I'm laughing because of it lol
: I think im going to bookmark this thread, and then when that day comes, redirect folks here just for giggles :^)
I did the same. Just waiting for ardent to get deleted from the game so the meta will shift and for people to complain about how {{champion:201}} makes melee lives hell, how {{champion:89}} can ult you, base and come back to lane with her ult being already up and how {{champion:12}} dives you without taking damage. And let's not forget about {{champion:412}} being "the lee sin of bot lane". I'm just waiting for it.
: @Riot - I'm not sure these changes to Janna and Ardent Censor make sense...
I would welcome it if these changes actually made sense. Pushing Janna towards autoattacking while also increasing her shield cooldown to 18/16/14/12/10 seconds barely makes sense. She's never gonna trade simply because her shield will always be used to save her ADC from poke, and that's the reason people pick Janna and enchanters in general. These changes are just Soraka over and over again, where they tried to make Soraka interactive by giving her W an 8 second cooldown lmao. Between current Ardent and Janna changes + Brand getting mana back from killing minions with W (when he doesn't because he kills minions by using his W and then E) I think the balance team is clueless.
Sub HeroCro (EUNE)
: Anivia only deserves nerfs She has been consistently peeking She is challenger/master tier midlaner without bad matchups if played well
Anivia is hiddenly op. Also that champ is annoying as fuck
: > [{quoted}](name=Swarovsko,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gIy3na8N,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-09-18T01:22:10.318+0000) > > but the fact that they **DOUBLED** the cooldown on her shield 10 x 2 = 18 Yep. This is NA alright.
I thought it was 9 sec but whatever. Also what's with the downvotes lmao? you just said something correct
: Janna needs a VGU in the future imo
VU with a complete W and a mini passive rework*. Q, E and R are fine.
: > [{quoted}](name=Swarovsko,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=emeK0AKX,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2017-09-18T02:52:07.877+0000) > > I remember when they nerfed the shit out of Karma because {{item:3174}} could've been op on her and they nerfed {{champion:427}} in the same patch for the same reason. Karma is now at 45% win rate and didn't receive any buff while Ivern with 51% win rate got buffed. Also, Ryze is getting a rework before Karma. Those Ivern buffs were so pathetic they made me laugh. It's worlds patch. Anything on the cusp of Viability is going to get a slight nudge in hopes that we get to see them in worlds. Anything farther from the tree, would be much more difficult to buff into contention, without completely overshooting the mark.
Wasn't worlds patch the last patch? I honestly thought esports were over since I don't watch them and barely log in on Twitch.tv
: NItpicky? No we are fucking sick of half the roster being in the dumpster+this cancer meta and riot buffs someone who doesn't need it because errr oh yeah he can abuse this cancer meta as well.
I remember when they nerfed the shit out of Karma because {{item:3174}} could've been op on her and they nerfed {{champion:427}} in the same patch for the same reason. Karma is now at 45% win rate and didn't receive any buff while Ivern with 51% win rate got buffed. Also, Ryze is getting a rework before Karma. Those Ivern buffs were so pathetic they made me laugh.
: > [{quoted}](name=i am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=emeK0AKX,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-09-17T19:10:02.603+0000) > > yeah xd, he can only rush athen and ardent now!!! buff 51% pls yeah, ardent and athene's... if people were not already picking him there is zero reason to pick him now. You seem very salty about this for no reason other than being salty for no reason
People are not picking Anivia either, that doesn't mean she deserves buffs.
Buffy (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Swarovsko,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gIy3na8N,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-09-18T01:26:28.631+0000) > > I don't think her shield is the problem. I remind you that before support itemization+ADC meta and coin buffs happened she had 51% win rate. Riot's issue is that it causes attrition. Whether or not it's overpowered might not indicate whether her shield is healthy for the game. Being able to shield spam your ADC whenever its up causes lane to be really stale, and I can see why they'd want to nerf its early game power (though it begs the question why they're fine with other supports doing pretty much the same thing). I do agree coin is definitely a huge part of the problem though, and it's artificially inflating Janna's strengths. If coin gets nerfed, I don't think Janna would be nearly as problematic, as I outlined in the OP.
The reason why the lane is stale when Janna gets played is because she can't trade. Soraka pokes with her Q, Sona q+auto whenever she has passive, Lulu can Q,W+autos,E etc, Nami can poke with her W... That's why I was hoping for Riot to change Janna's W into something else, her shield is not what's making Janna uninteractive.
Sophitia (NA)
: If a lot of Janna's power budget is in her shield giving bonus AD to her ADC, maybe that should be replaced with something else? E.g., ally shielded is given [x%] bonus move speed and [x] bonus damage? Dunno, just a thought.
I don't think her shield is the problem. I remind you that before support itemization+ADC meta and coin buffs happened she had 51% win rate.
Buffy (NA)
: @RiotRepertoir @RiotMeddler PBE Janna Thoughts
She's basically a Lulu 2.0. I would've loved to see different changes to Janna, like a total W and a mini passive rework, but the fact that they **DOUBLED** the cooldown on her shield (they want her to be interactive with a 18/16/14/12/10 second shield? lol it is almost laughable at how stupid these nerfs are) demonstrates that Meddler, Repertoir or whoever designed these changes doesn't know what he/she is doing. Actually, they know what they are doing but they don't know **how**, which is a huge problem because a champion getting ruined by a person's incompetence is not okay.
: I find it unbelievable that riot refuses to nerf the best champ in the game with the highest winrate, banrate and pickrate (WR reaching up to 60%) and instead non nerf censer and buff blue supp item (idk how this shit item is even called anymore lul). Then they realise janna is still broken and instead of just straight up nerfing her like idk THEY DID WITH EVERY FUCKING CHAMP OUT THERE they think about making her "more interactive in lane". Riot is biased as hell. Champs like janna, riven, yasuo, lee somehow are never allowed to be straight bad or out of meta. But i double dare you when GP still has 50% winrate after trinity got its crit chance removed, the nerf gatlin gun is waiting. Or zed. Or old sejuani. Or old leblanc having one of the worst winrates in the game. Still gets nerfed.
A simple way to nerf Janna: remove or rework {{item:3504}}, its design is bad and we don't need a braindead stat check item, nerf ADCs (Janna is the best support when it comes to synergizing with an ADC and no wonder she's the best support in a meta dominated by ADCs) and nerf {{item:3301}} this fucking uninteractive item which rewards supports with a shit ton of gold for doing EXACTLY NOTHING. Also, make her interactive by changing her W instead of changing her to fucking Lulu 2.0. Meddler knows what to do but doesn't know how and a champion shouldn't be ruined by his incompetence.
Death Rex (EUW)
: Ehhh, I feel like Lissandras Gameplay isn't the best, especially that passive. I like the champion itself, but a low range AP carry with meh scalings feels just weird to me
Well you have to consider that she was released in s3, imagine if Meddler designed Liss in s7, she would be beyond beautiful. Also her scalings probably got nerfed many times since she has been a problematic champion top lane.
: What happened to Lissandra's new passive?
I'm pretty sure they didn't release it because she would've been a cancer top lane, especially against melee champions.
Arakadia (NA)
: 45% winrate is not unviable. It is absolutely not balanced but it's not like Sona was unable to survive at all in high elo before her new interactions.
Oh trust me you don't remember how bad Sona was in s6/10 months ago before support itemization busted her and every other enchanter. I remember Imaqtie flaming someone in s6 just because that guy chose to pick Sona. She was considered a troll pick in high elo and got played ONCE in pro play (when she had 57% win rate in soloq) and still lost. Go back to 10 months ago or s6 and find me a Sona in master who gets played in the support role instead of mid lane.
: i would rather have cait ivern karma back then this heal barrier ardent shit
Cait+Karma wasn't just boring to go against, it was oppressive as fuck with all that poke. I played Karma many times and whenever I had a Cait adc I knew that wasn't going to be just boring for the enemy team... I remember many players going afk because unable to farm since their hp bar was always low. But yeah, that was still better than what we have now.
: It's kind of bullshit that Ryze gets this much attention
Janna changes and the fact that they are reworking Ryze before Karma (who needed to be changed ever since her rework went live 5 years ago) proved to me that Meddler should start designing beautiful champions such as {{champion:134}} {{champion:127}} {{champion:115}}(who were all designed by him) and stop taking balance decisions. He was so much better as a champion designer.
Arakadia (NA)
: She does survive being that close or else her winrate would be abysmal. It just makes Janna have to play somewhat risky for higher reward.
Before all this shit with support itemization happened, she had 45% win rate in challenger/master and 49% in diamond with 4% pick rate. She's only strong right now because her interaction with {{item:3070}} {{item:3301}} {{item:3504}} is completely overpowered. Let's not forget the countless of threads which asked Riot to give Sona a gameplay update since she was completely unviable in high elo a year ago.
Arakadia (NA)
: Sona using autos does make sense from a balance standpoint because otherwise she would never have to get anywhere near the enemy. Putting some power in her autos forces her to be more interactive.
Sona wasn't played in high elo for the simple fact that her kit is bad and that shit only works in bronze, where people don't know how to play around her shitty "interaction". She's played in challenger etc right now for the simple fact that {{item:3301}} allowes her to stand back and still get a shit ton of money and {{item:3504}} with her 5 sec heal can easily proc on 5 people making her even more overpowered (just like every enchanter who can abuse {{item:3504}}).
: ADC vs DPS Mages
Not gonna lie as much as I like Meddler I don't like what he and the balance team are doing this season. I would love to see him as a champion designer again, {{champion:134}} {{champion:115}} {{champion:127}} are amazing champions.
: Janna had a 50+ win rate long before Coin was buffed. The main issue with Janna isn't that she's too powerful in the hands of those who are experienced with her, it's that she's too powerful in the hands of someone who's never played her before. Sitting in the back of lane and pressing E is not something that's difficult to do. It might be confusing to know when to cast Zephyr, but Janna is rewarded for NEVER casting Zephyr with her absurd MS boost. Tailwind is purely passive and requires no skill to use. Basically the only thing that separates new Jannas from experienced Jannas (other than the ability to cast E in response to damage instead of at the beginning of a trade, which is a skill you just develop on any support at some point) is the player's use of Howling Gale. And, as you can see, Howling Gale has received a usability buff to help it go off even if you fully charge it. So that's good. Janna is becoming harder to succeed with. This has happened to nearly every champion in the game over the years. There is nothing special about Janna that makes her kit more important to preserve than anyone else.
I completely agree and don't get me wrong, I've always wanted to be differentied from a Janna who can't stop dashes using q at the right time or a Janna who throws Ws and Es without even thinking about it, but I feel like these changes are not the right ones... but maybe I'm just overreacting. I hope she's not just going to be Lulu 2.0
: I've been spamming the boards on nearly a daily basis about this item, and it's not even close to enough.
Let them enjoy their freelo
Dengeden (EUW)
: >Before you overbuffed coin, ADC + support itemization Janna was a champion with recognizable weaknesses and strenghts and to see part of her theme and identity being changed with such a badly designed passive just makes me sad. This statement is, of course, not reflected in her winrate and pickrate before the coin/censer buffs but hey! Janna can't be strong, she's a support! A champion that is based on helping out her team in a teamgame can't possibly be overtuned!
She had 51% win rate before all this shit on support itemization happened.
: > [{quoted}](name=Swarovsko,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FMP6on8A,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-09-14T02:02:10.805+0000) > > 2. Have you nerfed coin? This item is extremely boring and made almost EVERY support uninteractive. I see {{champion:37}} {{champion:267}} {{champion:117}} not even trying to poke anymore, or simply not trying to poke as much as they used to. Sona in challenger gets played like this: buy coin -> upgrade it to t2 -> get a lot of gold -> buy {{item:3070}} -> buy {{item:3504}} as soon as you can -> spam W -> win the game and I still cannot believe that even Sona got ruined by this item. Also I don't understand how coin doesn't have stacks like {{item:3303}}{{item:3302}} have and how it rewards champions for doing exactly nothing while {{item:3303}} {{item:3302}} both require something to do in order to get the gold. Whoever designed coin needs to stop doing whatever he/she is doing right now. I've been trying to hammer this point home for ages. No one is going to listen to you.
I don't understand how the boards is not filled with "nerf coin" either. Some people talk about it but we should be more vocal, this item needs to be nerfed and changed.
: I literally JUST said they're nerfing the item THEN the champ. I dont understand
Wait I just checked surr@20 and I didn't see any ardent nerfs, could you please tell me where you read that?
: > What makes Janna strong is also ADCs being too strong What if its vice versa though? Honestly I think its a combination of them being mutually beneficial to each other. We tend to view this as the damage dealer being the one who is too strong because they're the one actually killing us > Have you nerfed coin? Yes they have > Have you TRULY nerfed {{item:3504}}? No you didn't. Next patch. And they already said the Janna changes will not go through on the same patch because they want to see how it affects her first.
> Yes they have The nerfs were obviously not enough, mana wasn't the only problem and there's a reason why the item is still being abused. > Next patch. And they already said the Janna changes will not go through on the same patch because they want to see how it affects her first. This is my bad, I thought {{item:3504}} nerfs and all these {{champion:40}} changes were going to be released on the same patch.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
SatomiKun (EUW)
: I actually like the changes. The newly added passive plays in her wind theme, giving her poke for movment speed. And to be honest... she needed nerfs badly for a really long time...
really long time? She had 51% win rate before ardent and all that shit happened. Janna herself is fine, support itemization and ADCs being too strong are what made her beyond retarded.
: The idea of the buff makes a ton of sense. She is basically one of 3 ap carry junglers that are kind of viable, and probably the most healthy for pro play because she cant tower dive like Elise, and Evelynn isnt fun to watch (in my opinion they don't like lcs to have assassin because they think people don't want to watch them.) So nid was their choice and honestly it is kind of nice to know where they want her. Which is jungle. Also as far as a lot of buff and nerfs they don't really make sense, Riot just does them for some random reason but throws "professional play" in the description.
I know it makes sense, I just don't see why they would say they are buffing her simply because she's been out of the spotlight instead of saying she's underperforming compared to other champions. Just say she deserves to be buffed either for pro play or soloq.
inplane (NA)
: Taliyah's W is still missing a proper targeting indicator. QoL change long overdue.
I love how you've been saying this for over a year once a week and riot still ignores you.
Rioter Comments
: Katey said that champs need to fit the theme, so even if they have gotten a skin recently or have a shit ton of skins, they will still be in the running aka ahri gets tons of skins because she fits all the themes(she could have even fit this theme apparently lol). cause it's about how well they "fit". I don't have a link(it might not have been katey cause i just went through 8 months worth of her post and didn't see it). However, I found this. > We have a skin in development right now (to be released later this year) that has the team divided. Some people feel it’s a slam dunk. Some feel it’s not the most obvious fit, but a risk worth taking. Others feel adamant that it’s a bad fit. I've never seen a worse fitting skin in the game, so i think he was probably talking about this janna skin(the timing also seems to fit).
: Well, now riot can't use the excuse "X champ didn't fit in this skin thematic".
> "X champ didn't fit in this skin thematic" When did they say that?
Rioter Comments
: Sooooo....no skin for Shen, but Yi Gets Two Skins in One Year?
Tbh I'm fine with Janna and Fiora. That Janna skin looks kind of innovative even tho the theme isn't 100% appropriate for Janna, but I still enjoy the fact that they thought out of the box. Yi needed to be replaced with Shen. Also > Fuck you Riot! You need to chill, a Shen skin might be coming next month
: Can we stop putting slows on every other spell?
I was once playing top lane and this bitch {{champion:164}} slowed me with her w. It's not like she has a stun + engage and a point and click j4 ult that doesn't allow you to flash out of it. It's not like she gets bonus movement speed from hitting her Q. New champions are just overloaded as fuck for no reason at all and this shit needs to be stopped. Just look at Kayn healing himself while ALSO walking thorugh walls.
: > [{quoted}](name=Swarovsko,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yHVnP5B0,comment-id=003a,timestamp=2017-09-12T14:20:46.591+0000) > > ...If [...] mages could go bot none would be this salty in the boards. I agree with your other points, but people were salty as _fuck_ when mages in botlane started being a thing.
That is true, but people were not that mad when Ziggs was played bot lane. I even saw people saying stuff like "Riot please now that ZIggs is bot don't push him out of it. We need more variety blablabla" and i remember these posts perfectly because I was schoked when I saw the LoL community accepting it. They complained about {{champion:143}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:43}} because their poke was extremely obnoxious.
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