: 2019 Lore Tournament - Day 7: The Echoes left Behind vs The Whispering Doodad
The Echoes Left Behind by far! Whispering Doodad was a mess and I understand that it is what the story was trying to convey on the yordles journey however, it was way too confusing to properly follow.
: 2019 Lore Tournament - Day 6: Halfway Between the Stars and Earth vs For Those Who Have Fallen
: Conspiracy theory: The Crownguards killed Jarvan III
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: ff should be 3 v 2 after 20.
Agreed. Majority rules (well not really sadly).
: "I'm muting everyone the second the game starts and alt-tabbing until it does"
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: Summary and Conclusion of "Twilight of the Gods"
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: Bringing Cho'Gath into league's lore.
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Xano501 (NA)
: Do you start to ship Wukong x Ahri from new Ahri's lore?
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: 2019 Lore Tournament - Day 3: The Recruit vs Trouble
So many close calls, these stories are just all so lovely! Trouble has my vote because I love stories that show us what an individual champion is up to by themselves. I loved seeing how Annie reacts to others and others to her. Would love to see more champion stories that tell us their every day lives and what they personally plot.
: Sylas x Lux
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: I said %%%g along with couple people on my team we all got permabanned what?
As mentioned above Hate Speech is absolutely inexcusable. From moderating other platforms I can tell you that a permanent ban is justified. Homophobic slurs as well as racial slurs along with death threats are the worst offenders. I advise you to educate yourself on how those words are offensive. With that being said, you deserve the permanent ban and your team mates do too.
: 2019 Lore Tournament - Day 1: What once Sailed Free vs Aftermath
These are awesome! I do wonder if Riot actually uses these polls and rankings as an indicator as to what we want to see more or if they more or less proceed with their work regardless of what these yearly reviews show... In any case good job on doing this :D
gotenex (NA)
: Warsongs: Piercing Light (the original?)
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Gehco (NA)
: This is true I wonder
what.......................
: We needed to give Lux a Visual Update, no time for Xerath skins.
> [{quoted}](name=Hayaishi2,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=onczl2oM,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-11-29T13:28:21.280+0000) > > We needed to give Lux a Visual Update, no time for Xerath skins. lol
: New Kennen Skin
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Rioter Comments
Galiö (NA)
: Vilemaw idea
I support this!
: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNDX60k0mBA Before **EVERY** voice line, there's two sounds - a nice set of ethereal whispers, and a high pitched ringing sound. Can you hear them?
> [{quoted}](name=Allein Dovienya,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=h0QmZEl6,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-11-27T14:42:56.961+0000) > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNDX60k0mBA > > Before **EVERY** voice line, there's two sounds - a nice set of ethereal whispers, and a high pitched ringing sound. > > Can you hear them? I see what you mean. Interesting because while I can hear that pitch coming in after the calm/etheral sound it is not disturbing to me. Now you may be more sensitive to it which means there is other people who may be too sensitive to it too. I sadly can not do much about it but maybe a Rioter can help if they see it and wish to reply.
: Aphelios high-pitched painful ringing
Is it possible to give an example? Link a video maybe and tell us which line or give us a timestamp? I have seen gameplay of his and his preview and no where did I see any sound issues so it might as well be your pc's fault.
: Can we know what the future gemstone skins will be?
That would be good.. At least make the net few skins known! PS: Ask Player Support if you may get a refund on that..
: but his old skins are all more serious? His most quality skin is blood moon, also the only other one to change his bombs. I think a lighter-themed skin is appropriate given the other skins in his line.
> [{quoted}](name=MalrothDragonia,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=3dpYqMmd,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-11-26T15:55:34.327+0000) > > but his old skins are all more serious? His most quality skin is blood moon, also the only other one to change his bombs. I think a lighter-themed skin is appropriate given the other skins in his line. That is actually not my argument in this case. I am saying that despite the fact that a champion has serious skins, after years have passed, people want another serious skin due to the time passed. They do not wish for a memey skin to "make a return" for a champion.
: I haven't read anything yet. Your formatting was just so goddamn beautiful I felt compelled to comment first and let you know this is the most beautifully done post I've ever read on these forums. Edit: Whew what a read. You really put a lot of thought into this and I agree, the Black Rose in general could stand to fleshed out more. Elise and Cassiopeia are portrayed too weakly in comparison to Vladimir and Leblanc.
> [{quoted}](name=Zero Drive,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=IcIcP6fw,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-11-26T11:22:53.511+0000) > > I haven't read anything yet. Your formatting was just so goddamn beautiful I felt compelled to comment first and let you know this is the most beautifully done post I've ever read on these forums. > > Edit: Whew what a read. You really put a lot of thought into this and I agree, the Black Rose in general could stand to fleshed out more. Elise and Cassiopeia are portrayed too weakly in comparison to Vladimir and Leblanc. Thank you so much! This means a lot to me because I do like high- effort threads as I put lots of time into them and getting a kind word of support is awesome :D (Also glad you enjoyed the topic!)
: Zilean main - supremely disappointed w the upcoming Zilean skin
This is becoming an issue I have noticed. Champions who are picked less and have few/old skins should get more serious skins. We saw this with Ivern too, nobody really enjoyed the basketball thematic because he already has an funny/memey skin. With Zilean they are making a similar mistake where he has very old skins and after a good period of time, years actually, people wish to see a more serious type of a skin. I hope Riot learns from this, not to make memey skins for champions who have not gotten a skin in a long period of time. PS.: Making it more constructive would definitely help Riot understand where the issue lies.
: {{champion:26}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:27}} {{champion:37}} {{champion:16}} {{champion:4}} {{champion:77}} Imagine asking for Lissandra... when nothing on her kit is unaligned and nothing on Liss you can't see properly x-x unlike all these and much more...
> [{quoted}](name=Support Position,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=Ia7L3yAv,comment-id=001e0000,timestamp=2019-11-25T21:27:38.648+0000) > > {{champion:26}} > > {{champion:43}} > > {{champion:27}} > > {{champion:37}} > > {{champion:16}} > > {{champion:4}} > > {{champion:77}} > > Imagine asking for Lissandra... when nothing on her kit is unaligned and nothing on Liss you can't see properly x-x unlike all these and much more... So show me where I asked for Lissandra to get a small visual update. The champions you mentioned, most of them, are solid candidates for a complete overhaul which this Rioter does not do. So referencing some champions in dire need of a VGU is pointless. Imagine that.
: Lux VFX Update
Can I get your genuine thoughts on who you think could be another good potential candidate for this minor visual update? Maybe thoughts on Lissandra? EDIT: Also thank you for using the boards to announce this. It really does feel nice when a Rioter posts here instead of other platforms <3
: Zed VS Shen | LORE BATTLE!
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: Will we ever learn the exact relationship between Garen and Katarina?
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: How tall is Mordekaiser?
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: Which champion lore wise is your favourite and why
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: > [{quoted}](name=The Iceborn,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=IcIcP6fw,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-11-25T06:11:26.174+0000) > > That is fair and I do see a lot of mixed feelings here.. In any case the Justice League is feels more prevalent and important to its members (maybe that is the effect of being public) and the BR also appears to be taking the Nr.1 spot of dedication to its members when I do not believe that that is quite true.. Okay so that opens up what do you feel makes it a "Black Rose" story? For example the Vlad story with the artist didn't really feel like a black rose story as opposed to a characterization of how Vladimir goes about doing what he does. Sure this could also lead to doing things for the Black Rose but it feels like flushing out his character. I can't really recall an Elise story off the top of my head in its full context, but she seems to be more in surviving and maintaining her beauty than for the black rose's benefit (at least in how shes presently presented) And Cass just had a story in Shruima Leblanc also showed how she stays around for so long and such but these all seem to be self-preservation but maybe I'm missing something
> [{quoted}](name=CaptainAntiHeroz,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=IcIcP6fw,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2019-11-25T06:26:49.919+0000) > > Okay so that opens up what do you feel makes it a "Black Rose" story? For example the Vlad story with the artist didn't really feel like a black rose story as opposed to a characterization of how Vladimir goes about doing what he does. Sure this could also lead to doing things for the Black Rose but it feels like flushing out his character. > I can't really recall an Elise story off the top of my head in its full context, but she seems to be more in surviving and maintaining her beauty than for the black rose's benefit (at least in how shes presently presented) > And Cass just had a story in Shruima > Leblanc also showed how she stays around for so long and such but these all seem to be self-preservation but maybe I'm missing something I think there been a bit of confusion, I never said that Art is Life is a BR story, I said that in that story Vladimir shows his disdain for the BR. I guess we have opposing views on the topic.
: I feel like "dependent" isn't really the right wording.... In fact they all seem to be doing the exact opposite of being dependent on the Black Rose {{champion:8}} seducing prey to feed off of {{champion:60}} seducing prey to sacrifice to vilemaw in exchange for immortality {{champion:69}} off in Shurima doing douchy snake lady things It almost feels like .... Okay let me explain it in super hero team terminology so you can follow my thinking better Imagine the Justice League = Black rose in this metaphor And its play up to be this super big deal Okay now we're only going to give you Batman, Superman and Wonder woman SOLO stories with Say idk the Flash getting a solo story and referencing the league in one story It feels almost like an afterthought and never like WE'RE WRITING A BLACK ROSE STORY OH BOY I mean the only person who feels involved with the black rose is {{champion:7}} even though I know the others are in it they don't FEEL like a part of it unless I missed a bunch of recent lore on them referencing the Black rose....
> [{quoted}](name=CaptainAntiHeroz,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=IcIcP6fw,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-11-25T06:02:45.380+0000) > > I feel like "dependent" isn't really the right wording.... > > In fact they all seem to be doing the exact opposite of being dependent on the Black Rose > > {{champion:8}} seducing prey to feed off of > {{champion:60}} seducing prey to sacrifice to vilemaw in exchange for immortality > {{champion:69}} off in Shurima doing douchy snake lady things > > It almost feels like .... > > Okay let me explain it in super hero team terminology so you can follow my thinking better > > Imagine the Justice League = Black rose in this metaphor > And its play up to be this super big deal > Okay now we're only going to give you Batman, Superman and Wonder woman SOLO stories with Say idk the Flash getting a solo story and referencing the league in one story > > It feels almost like an afterthought and never like WE'RE WRITING A BLACK ROSE STORY OH BOY > I mean the only person who feels involved with the black rose is {{champion:7}} even though I know the others are in it they don't FEEL like a part of it unless I missed a bunch of recent lore on them referencing the Black rose.... That is fair and I do see a lot of mixed feelings here.. In any case the Justice League is feels more prevalent and important to its members (maybe that is the effect of being public) and the BR also appears to be taking the Nr.1 spot of dedication to its members when I do not believe that that is quite true..
: I'm actually really happy to see a thread like this. I RP'd Elise for a really long time and have a ton of HCs for her and everything involving the Black Rose and Noxus and stuff. First, let's look at things from LB's point of view. While we are not exactly entirely sure what her agenda is, we do know she runs a secret organization that pulls the strings of Noxus in the background. That's said, it is safe to assume that LB is extremely proficient at strategizing and planning and being two steps ahead of her opponents. Also, from the pale woman lore, we know that LB is not human/immortal/long-lasting to some degree. She passes we'll call it her "soul" from one vessel to the next in order to survive. In order for all of her plans to be successful, LB would need a loyal, powerful inner ring that she can share secrets with, and preferably, not have to recycle that ring every generation. If you recall petal and thorn from a lore story a while back, that is what I believe Elise and Vlad to be. LB starts the relationship off by giving Elise something she wants. This means that she already has a good amount of knowledge regarding who Elise is and what happened to her. Remember that Elise became extremely reclusive for a long time after she was disfigured, so only someone with good connections and an agenda would approach her. Elise has now bound herself to the Black Rose, and as you stated, she has a symbiotic relationship with the Black Rose. So back to your question, why would Elise choose to not be independent? LB's sacrifices are merely a convenience for her, so they clearly don't hold too much weight. But LB has some other things. First, she has secrets, not only of Elise, but of other things too. Knowledge is power. And Elise is definitely attracted to power. I think LB would have seen potential in Elise, and taught her magic - ancient, arcane, you name it. The Black Rose likely also had some other resources available too that are only accessible to members. Of course, LB's teachings wouldn't come for free and she would need Elise to carry out some other Black Rose related duties as well. This would be LB covering all her bases and ensuring loyalty as much as possible because you wouldn't want something as powerful as the woman you've created to turn against you. And kind of my own personal thing, but I think the Black Rose uses some form of blood magic that prevents Elise from harming LB and potentially vice versa. So LB has a lot of things over Elise, but I think she's smart enough to know that the best form of loyalty is trust, which tends to be a two-way street. She'd begin to entrust things that no one has ever known to the Spider Queen - the vulnerability of her vessel for instance. And Elise helps with that transition (along with Vlad). By this point, the two know so many secrets about each other, that it'd be the dumbest thing to do to break all ties and be independent. Betrayal is just going to be an enormous headache and get someone killed. And that's what LB wants - a circle of powerful people she can trust who hold sway over her just as she does them. In a way, she's tied their hands through a twisted form of blackmail, but Elise, Vlad, and Cass just stay because it's so beneficial. I believe that Elise's ultimate agenda is to become immortal without Vilemaw's help. Essentially she wants Vilemaw's power. To do that, she will most likely need the Black Rose. It's a means to an end, but there's no reason to be burning bridges even afterward. Cass ended up bonded to the Black Rose because of her snake curse. She needs their resources now that she's not human. But that's what LB wanted in the first place. I actually don't hold too much of an interest in Vlad so I haven't put a lot of thought into his character. He likely has his own deal with LB. So I don't think Riot needs to separate these four characters. I want a story that ties them all together. In fact, it'd be cool to see a longer story featuring them working together. In response to some other things: I don't think LB is breathing down their necks. If she were to abuse the relationships she had, then it would make them betray her. Instead, her inner circle acknowledges that they do have responsibilities, and it's more akin to an agreement that they have realized over time. There's always an "or else" tacked onto LB's requests, but she knows that it goes both ways. That's how she garners respect and maintains her balance of power. Over time, this has transitioned into characters doing their own independent thing, but they come together for Black Rose purposes. The one person that got away with this shit is Swain when he betrayed the Black Rose, but that's a whole different story. And LB likely has a trump card somewhere that no one has ever heard of, but who knows? Just a little more about the Black Rose - they are definitely the epitome of a shit ton of evil things involving murder, betrayal, and deceit, but LB is extremely careful about keeping members of the inner circle from directing those things at each other, which is why she also needs to choose them very carefully. ~~There are some weird ass love triangles going around too I'm sure.~~ I headcanon Elise as having a telepathic connection to her spiderlings and can sense what they sense. Her spiderlings aren't animals but beings of dark magic. The eggs she lays are just her funneling dark magic into a pocket, and it lays dormant until it needs to hatch. This means she doesn't absolutely have to lay eggs; it's just a way to store magic. That also means she can summon spiderlings at will. As for Vilemaw, he is kinda lore dead, but I have my own HCs for how he became what he did and how he could appear in other places in Runeterra. Another time though. I already typed waaaaay too much. Edit: I also just want to point out that Elise becoming the Spider Queen was entirely unintended given LB's plans so yeah just some food for thought. What do you do when a pawn of yours comes back as a really powerful being? =u= Edit 2: Wouldn't it be interesting if Elise's husband had actually gotten the poison from the Black Rose? >8)
> [{quoted}](name=P0IS0N IVY,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=IcIcP6fw,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-11-25T01:47:17.663+0000) > > I'm actually really happy to see a thread like this. I RP'd Elise for a really long time and have a ton of HCs for her and everything involving the Black Rose and Noxus and stuff. > > First, let's look at things from LB's point of view. While we are not exactly entirely sure what her agenda is, we do know she runs a secret organization that pulls the strings of Noxus in the background. That's said, it is safe to assume that LB is extremely proficient at strategizing and planning and being two steps ahead of her opponents. Also, from the pale woman lore, we know that LB is not human/immortal/long-lasting to some degree. She passes we'll call it her "soul" from one vessel to the next in order to survive. In order for all of her plans to be successful, LB would need a loyal, powerful inner ring that she can share secrets with, and preferably, not have to recycle that ring every generation. If you recall petal and thorn from a lore story a while back, that is what I believe Elise and Vlad to be. LB starts the relationship off by giving Elise something she wants. This means that she already has a good amount of knowledge regarding who Elise is and what happened to her. Remember that Elise became extremely reclusive for a long time after she was disfigured, so only someone with good connections and an agenda would approach her. Elise has now bound herself to the Black Rose, and as you stated, she has a symbiotic relationship with the Black Rose. > > So back to your question, why would Elise choose to not be independent? LB's sacrifices are merely a convenience for her, so they clearly don't hold too much weight. But LB has some other things. First, she has secrets, not only of Elise, but of other things too. Knowledge is power. And Elise is definitely attracted to power. I think LB would have seen potential in Elise, and taught her magic - ancient, arcane, you name it. The Black Rose likely also had some other resources available too that are only accessible to members. Of course, LB's teachings wouldn't come for free and she would need Elise to carry out some other Black Rose related duties as well. This would be LB covering all her bases and ensuring loyalty as much as possible because you wouldn't want something as powerful as the woman you've created to turn against you. And kind of my own personal thing, but I think the Black Rose uses some form of blood magic that prevents Elise from harming LB and potentially vice versa. So LB has a lot of things over Elise, but I think she's smart enough to know that the best form of loyalty is trust, which tends to be a two-way street. She'd begin to entrust things that no one has ever known to the Spider Queen - the vulnerability of her vessel for instance. And Elise helps with that transition (along with Vlad). By this point, the two know so many secrets about each other, that it'd be the dumbest thing to do to break all ties and be independent. Betrayal is just going to be an enormous headache and get someone killed. And that's what LB wants - a circle of powerful people she can trust who hold sway over her just as she does them. In a way, she's tied their hands through a twisted form of blackmail, but Elise, Vlad, and Cass just stay because it's so beneficial. > > I believe that Elise's ultimate agenda is to become immortal without Vilemaw's help. Essentially she wants Vilemaw's power. To do that, she will most likely need the Black Rose. It's a means to an end, but there's no reason to be burning bridges even afterward. > > Cass ended up bonded to the Black Rose because of her snake curse. She needs their resources now that she's not human. But that's what LB wanted in the first place. > > I actually don't hold too much of an interest in Vlad so I haven't put a lot of thought into his character. He likely has his own deal with LB. > > So I don't think Riot needs to separate these four characters. I want a story that ties them all together. In fact, it'd be cool to see a longer story featuring them working together. > > In response to some other things: > > I don't think LB is breathing down their necks. If she were to abuse the relationships she had, then it would make them betray her. Instead, her inner circle acknowledges that they do have responsibilities, and it's more akin to an agreement that they have realized over time. There's always an "or else" tacked onto LB's requests, but she knows that it goes both ways. That's how she garners respect and maintains her balance of power. Over time, this has transitioned into characters doing their own independent thing, but they come together for Black Rose purposes. The one person that got away with this shit is Swain when he betrayed the Black Rose, but that's a whole different story. And LB likely has a trump card somewhere that no one has ever heard of, but who knows? > > Just a little more about the Black Rose - they are definitely the epitome of a shit ton of evil things involving murder, betrayal, and deceit, but LB is extremely careful about keeping members of the inner circle from directing those things at each other, which is why she also needs to choose them very carefully. ~~There are some weird ass love triangles going around too I'm sure.~~ > > I headcanon Elise as having a telepathic connection to her spiderlings and can sense what they sense. Her spiderlings aren't animals but beings of dark magic. The eggs she lays are just her funneling dark magic into a pocket, and it lays dormant until it needs to hatch. This means she doesn't absolutely have to lay eggs; it's just a way to store magic. That also means she can summon spiderlings at will. > > As for Vilemaw, he is kinda lore dead, but I have my own HCs for how he became what he did and how he could appear in other places in Runeterra. Another time though. I already typed waaaaay too much. > > Edit: I also just want to point out that Elise becoming the Spider Queen was entirely unintended given LB's plans so yeah just some food for thought. What do you do when a pawn of yours comes back as a really powerful being? =u= > > Edit 2: Wouldn't it be interesting if Elise's husband had actually gotten the poison from the Black Rose? >8) Ok, first off, where have you been??? Such an amazing analysis I love it! Thank you for putting this much effort into your reply! My issue is that while I understand that being in the Black Rose is beneficial to most of their members, we do not understand how beneficent it is.. I wish to see that more explored, the benefits and rivalries between their high ranking members! And I guess that LBs knowledge is something that is greatly valued among the members but I would like to know about more stuff that keeps the circle together. Also I was quite intrigued when you pointed out that Elise may want Vilemaws powers... We would need to explore his being a bit more which the narrative has not yet done however, do you really think Elise would be able to snatch his powers? While I do think that that is possible, there is also the possibility of her being too devoted to him. Funny to think maybe she would actually use and betray the Black Rose for Vilemaw instead of the other way around? What if she is so devoted to him that she is syphoning power and instruments from the BR to help him maybe become free or even more powerful? Or maybe your suspicion is correct in assuming that she wants him dead, tho hopefully that does not somehow kill her? Wow, interesting to think about! I do not mind a story that ties all 4 of them together I just primarily wish for a story that tells us about how despite them being part of the organization, they are indeed rivaled by each other constantly and executing their own plans first and then worrying about the BR and its needs second. That is also clever, pointing out that Spiderlings are just some kind of dark magic and that the eggs are actually hosting magic. And yes the BR poisoning Elise would be a hell of a twist! But I can see it be the case. Someone as determined as her being used to get a dagger from the Shadow Isles! Tho it truly would be surprising for LeBlanc to have her pawn come back as powerful as she did. All that remains now is keep that secret if it is true because if Elise was to find out, there would be consequences given the already existing fight for power.
: I kind of agree with Cassiopeia and Elise, but Vladimir is shown to be as influential in the lore. He’s portrayed as an ancient prince of a kingdom long gone practicing the magic of the Darkin that he killed, and someone who likes to live in the shadows only to emerge and change history. Reread his latest story (the one with the painter iirc) to see what I mean
> [{quoted}](name=VampiricNarwhal,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=IcIcP6fw,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-11-25T04:24:53.320+0000) > > I kind of agree with Cassiopeia and Elise, but Vladimir is shown to be as influential in the lore. He’s portrayed as an ancient prince of a kingdom long gone practicing the magic of the Darkin that he killed, and someone who likes to live in the shadows only to emerge and change history. Reread his latest story (the one with the painter iirc) to see what I mean I actually did and it says that he has had enough of the Black Rose :D However yes out of all of them he has the most kind of stories for himself and that is lovely! However Art is Life does tell us that Vladimir does not enjoy being the pawn of the BR anymore.
GreenLore (EUW)
: The thing is that we don't really have a lot of lore regarding the internal connections of the black rose, thus there isn't any lore to judge how much power LB has within the black rose. And while Elises connection to the SI is unique, it has been little more than fluff from her lore so far(granted its possible that Sions resurrection is tied to that, but Sion himself doesn't have canon lore at the moment).
> [{quoted}](name=GreenLore,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=IcIcP6fw,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-11-24T23:30:08.763+0000) > > The thing is that we don't really have a lot of lore regarding the internal connections of the black rose, thus there isn't any lore to judge how much power LB has within the black rose. > > And while Elises connection to the SI is unique, it has been little more than fluff from her lore so far(granted its possible that Sions resurrection is tied to that, but Sion himself doesn't have canon lore at the moment). It is true that we do not have a lot but we do have enough to say that LeBlanc is not sitting comfortably as the leader of the circle and that seems to be news flash to a lot of people apparently which furthermore proves my point that people actually think LeBlanc is the ringleader there and everyone does whatever she says at all times{{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}}
: > [{quoted}](name=The Iceborn,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=IcIcP6fw,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-11-24T18:56:37.606+0000) > > Yes LB is seemingly a bit higher in hierarchy but the flaw is that she appears to be absolutely uncontested in her position and that I do feel like Riot has done a bad job of not changing the perspective on that... She is still being challenged all the time and saying that she commands others is false and you can only detect that if you truly dive into the lore (which any reader is supposed to be able to identify immediately). > > I disagree, every member of the BR has something of value and Elise's connection to the SI and her bringing artifacts as well as her dominion over spiders are undoubtedly super helpful. Yes some aspects are shared between members but I would not say she is redundant... Even you saying she is redundant makes my case as she still has no real agenda or something that makes her a valuable individual for the BR and herself especially.. Where you've gotten the idea that LeBlanc is challenged in her own organization is beyond me. I've yet to find anything within her lore or any piece relating to her that states she struggles for power. As for the champion members of the BR...you have to understand that anyone that is remotely related to LeBlanc is going to be miles below her in power/influence simply because that is what the Lore team intended her to be. This does not detract from Elise, Cass, and Vlad's inherent abilities....this only places LeBlanc above them, and rightfully so. In the case of Elise and LeBlanc, I've never gotten the vibe that Elise is made to be dependent on her/the BR. Elise could surely snatch any random civilian up and take them to the SI...but I've always gotten the vibe that Elise and LeBlanc have a sort of friendship, and that Elise takes the low-ranking BR sacrifices as a token of gratitude/goodwill. Seeing Elise is hundreds of years old, I find it hard to believe her and LeBlanc haven't sat down and chatted for a bit, or at the very least developed some sort of friendship. If anything, I'd expect Elise to be one of the highest-ranking/most respected members of the BR.
> [{quoted}](name=DonatellaVersace,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=IcIcP6fw,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-24T20:17:57.760+0000) > > Where you've gotten the idea that LeBlanc is challenged in her own organization is beyond me. I've yet to find anything within her lore or any piece relating to her that states she struggles for power. > > As for the champion members of the BR...you have to understand that anyone that is remotely related to LeBlanc is going to be miles below her in power/influence simply because that is what the Lore team intended her to be. This does not detract from Elise, Cass, and Vlad's inherent abilities....this only places LeBlanc above them, and rightfully so. > > In the case of Elise and LeBlanc, I've never gotten the vibe that Elise is made to be dependent on her/the BR. Elise could surely snatch any random civilian up and take them to the SI...but I've always gotten the vibe that Elise and LeBlanc have a sort of friendship, and that Elise takes the low-ranking BR sacrifices as a token of gratitude/goodwill. Seeing Elise is hundreds of years old, I find it hard to believe her and LeBlanc haven't sat down and chatted for a bit, or at the very least developed some sort of friendship. If anything, I'd expect Elise to be one of the highest-ranking/most respected members of the BR. Well it's not even hidden, in Vladimir's bio it states: *"Thus began the pact between Vladimir and LeBlanc, rife with disputes, and games of politics and war. Over the centuries, others joined them—powerful nobles, exalted masters of magic, and beings darker still. This cabal grew into the hidden power that would guide the throne of Noxus for more than a thousand years, orchestrating many of the empire’s most ambitious campaigns."* Furthermore in LeBlanc's bio: *"Even the most powerful military commander could only ever serve the cult’s true masters, as they fight one another for influence in games of intrigue and conquest, both in the Noxian capital and beyond its borders"* This is not the Frostguard where you have one all powerful leader who is uncontested in her powers. The Black Rose is an organization of individuals of similar strength and they will not be told what to do without giving it a second thought. Vladimir's Art of Life says it all. He is done with LeBlancs games.. And no, Vladimir and Elise are definitely not "miles below" her in power or influence... Sure there is differences but LeBlanc is not your all knowing ultimate, uncontested entity that you think. This exactly proves my point, you also are the one who thinks that LeBlanc is the unquestioned ruler, but she simply is not.. Vladimir is in the process of showing us that... Overall I see that some people still do not quite understand the power structure of the Black Rose and I am not saying that I am 100% right however, I am saying that there is a bit of an unintended effect of having us believe that LeBlanc is uncontested. Maybe the effect is intended anyways :D
GreenLore (EUW)
: I don't really feel like most Black Rose members are too dependent on the black rose. Yes Lb stands above them in the hierarchy, but thats pretty natural for any organization. With that being said, I do feel like Elise is kinda redundant among the other black rose members. I mean she is a seductive human/animal-hybrid who is obsessed with beauty, but thats basically{{champion:69}} already. Her sacrificing others in order to survive is likely done by {{champion:8}} too(not sure if it was ever explained how he remains alive, but I'm pretty sure he does it by draining blood from others).
> [{quoted}](name=GreenLore,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=IcIcP6fw,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-11-24T18:43:40.600+0000) > > I don't really feel like most Black Rose members are too dependent on the black rose. > Yes Lb stands above them in the hierarchy, but thats pretty natural for any organization. > > With that being said, I do feel like Elise is kinda redundant among the other black rose members. > I mean she is a seductive human/animal-hybrid who is obsessed with beauty, but thats basically{{champion:69}} already. Her sacrificing others in order to survive is likely done by {{champion:8}} too(not sure if it was ever explained how he remains alive, but I'm pretty sure he does it by draining blood from others). Yes LB is seemingly a bit higher in hierarchy but the flaw is that she appears to be absolutely uncontested in her position and that I do feel like Riot has done a bad job of not changing the perspective on that... She is still being challenged all the time and saying that she commands others is false and you can only detect that if you truly dive into the lore (which any reader is supposed to be able to identify immediately). I disagree, every member of the BR has something of value and Elise's connection to the SI and her bringing artifacts as well as her dominion over spiders are undoubtedly super helpful. Yes some aspects are shared between members but I would not say she is redundant... Even you saying she is redundant makes my case as she still has no real agenda or something that makes her a valuable individual for the BR and herself especially..
Rioter Comments
: Hey Iceborn! Zed did a combination of actual physical surgery (learned from Master Kusho) and magical healing. So yep, he does not the basics of being a "healer" in Ionia. (but really only the basics)
> [{quoted}](name=WAAARGHbobo,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=yjig4POz,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-11-21T22:12:33.794+0000) > > Hey Iceborn! > Zed did a combination of actual physical surgery (learned from Master Kusho) and magical healing. So yep, he does not the basics of being a "healer" in Ionia. (but really only the basics) Hello Odin :D Thank you for helping out with those questions and again, you did a marvelous job with this first issue and undoubtedly the whole comic too! Hope to see more of your amazing work in 2020!
: If anything Lissandra is most likely to die over the course of the story. Killing Sejuani doesn't raise any stakes. Just looking at the story hooks that Riot has presented us with over the last year or two. 1.) Lissandra has gone from straight up evil/doing the Watchers bidding to their enemy to their captor sealing them beneath a blanket of Ice that cannot hold 2.) Lissandra is making enemies with everyone in the Freljord by manipulating the tribes and trying to erase their history all it would take is for someone to expose her to turn the Frostguard into pariahs ({{champion:20}} ) 3.) Ashe and Sejuani have gone from two people who are ideologically opposed, but never met to childhood friends who tragically had a rift form between them as they aged. Even in the story the Winters Claw is admitted to not be at war with the Avarosans. They've down gone from Allies vs Axis to Console Wars level of conflict. Riot wants to raise the tension in the story not lowering it. If Sejuani up and dies then the Freljord just became a safer place free from one of the biggest group of raiders in it. Yippee. Lissandra is guarding one of the most dangerous group of entities that has been harrowing the lore since before the reboot when Lissandra was released in 2013! After 5 years Riot has to pay off on that. One way to do it would be for the truth about Lissandra and the Frostguard to become known and Ashe and Sejuani to see her as the bigger threat and team up which is not so hard to sell now that we know they were close before AND they aren't at war. Lissandra is ironically destroyed by the reincarnations of the sisters she betrayed BECAUSE she tried to suppress the truth and made herself a target. Without her nobody else can maintain the barrier of True Ice keeping the Watchers at bay and all of Runeterra is at risk as a full flegded Void invasion can happen. Proof is kinda in the pudding. Killing Sejuani accomplishes little to nothing while Lissandra pretty much exists as a character to connect the Watchers to Runeterra
> [{quoted}](name=mrmeddyman,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=P0fJeEKi,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2019-11-20T22:57:42.642+0000) > > If anything Lissandra is most likely to die over the course of the story. Killing Sejuani doesn't raise any stakes. Just looking at the story hooks that Riot has presented us with over the last year or two. > > 1.) Lissandra has gone from straight up evil/doing the Watchers bidding to their enemy to their captor sealing them beneath a blanket of Ice that cannot hold > > 2.) Lissandra is making enemies with everyone in the Freljord by manipulating the tribes and trying to erase their history all it would take is for someone to expose her to turn the Frostguard into pariahs ({{champion:20}} ) > > 3.) Ashe and Sejuani have gone from two people who are ideologically opposed, but never met to childhood friends who tragically had a rift form between them as they aged. Even in the story the Winters Claw is admitted to not be at war with the Avarosans. They've down gone from Allies vs Axis to Console Wars level of conflict. > > Riot wants to raise the tension in the story not lowering it. If Sejuani up and dies then the Freljord just became a safer place free from one of the biggest group of raiders in it. Yippee. Lissandra is guarding one of the most dangerous group of entities that has been harrowing the lore since before the reboot when Lissandra was released in 2013! After 5 years Riot has to pay off on that. One way to do it would be for the truth about Lissandra and the Frostguard to become known and Ashe and Sejuani to see her as the bigger threat and team up which is not so hard to sell now that we know they were close before AND they aren't at war. Lissandra is ironically destroyed by the reincarnations of the sisters she betrayed BECAUSE she tried to suppress the truth and made herself a target. Without her nobody else can maintain the barrier of True Ice keeping the Watchers at bay and all of Runeterra is at risk as a full flegded Void invasion can happen. > > Proof is kinda in the pudding. Killing Sejuani accomplishes little to nothing while Lissandra pretty much exists as a character to connect the Watchers to Runeterra Wouldn't you say that killing off Lissandra is really a bad idea tho? Like you said without her the Watchers will for sure be free sooner or later, probably sooner and with that freljord and whole runeterra is in danger. Like her or not, she is the one keeping runeterra safe so killing her off means killing off sejuani and ashe and the rest of runeterra..
: Kindred Needs a New Skin RIOT!!!!
Reviving necro- threads which already had their time to shine is against [Universal Rules](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/ITFIpNUE) and as such I will be locking this thread to make sure it lands at the bottom of the howling abyss. I would strongly encourage looking at how old a thread is before commenting on it. Should there be any questions regarding this action feel free to reach out in our [Moderation Discord](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/7rtKBZLi-boards-moderation-discord-verification).
: @riot story team what color is zed's hair
Reviving necro- threads which already had their time to shine is against [Universal Rules](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/ITFIpNUE) and as such I will be locking this thread to make sure it lands at the bottom of the howling abyss. I would strongly encourage looking at how old a thread is before commenting on it. Should there be any questions regarding this action feel free to reach out in our [Moderation Discord](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/7rtKBZLi-boards-moderation-discord-verification).
: [Spoilers!] Zed Issue Nr 1. Discussion
I really liked the comic and I found it interesting how Zed has mutiple names! Very curious to see what happens in the next comic, should be juicy seeing how Jhin lured Zed into coming to the massacre village, very sentimental to Zed and Jhin knows that... A question I do have tho, what kind of healing did the zed perform on the injured person? Also glad you are continuing this comic- analysis series :D
: ADC LF Partner to Climb Ranked
Reviving necro- threads which already had their time to shine is against [Universal Rules](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/ITFIpNUE) and as such I will be locking this thread to make sure it lands at the bottom of the howling abyss. I would strongly encourage looking at how old a thread is before commenting on it. Should there be any questions regarding this action feel free to reach out in our [Moderation Discord](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/7rtKBZLi-boards-moderation-discord-verification).
Jaspers (EUW)
: To be honest, it reads oddly. As though it's written for him to be lucky and survive. Thorva goes to him instead of turning away like told to. He touches her and takes her power but she survives so he keeps his head. And he takes Brokvar's powers to live. He then in discussion mentions "He says he had a vision. A dream that came to him, of three Freljordian sisters. It was they who urged him to come here." What does that even mean? Since when does he have precog powers considering he has no power on his own? Let's say he goes with them, does a raid and get their help. Then what? Travel back to Demacia to fight a well organised army of thousands with anti-magic armour? What will he tell his other followers when he returns alone without the dozen he took? Will he claim it's for the greater good and how many have to die before they realise he's an idiot? But that's the think and why think he's written well. Because unlike Vlad or LB, he's not a mastermind, he's not clever because he's not been educated to be. He's been in servitude then jail most of his life so he doesn't understand the world.
> [{quoted}](name=Jaspers,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=P0fJeEKi,comment-id=000e00010000,timestamp=2019-11-20T15:27:38.892+0000) > > To be honest, it reads oddly. As though it's written for him to be lucky and survive. Thorva goes to him instead of turning away like told to. He touches her and takes her power but she survives so he keeps his head. And he takes Brokvar's powers to live. > > He then in discussion mentions "He says he had a vision. A dream that came to him, of three Freljordian sisters. It was they who urged him to come here." What does that even mean? Since when does he have precog powers considering he has no power on his own? > > Let's say he goes with them, does a raid and get their help. Then what? Travel back to Demacia to fight a well organised army of thousands with anti-magic armour? What will he tell his other followers when he returns alone without the dozen he took? Will he claim it's for the greater good and how many have to die before they realise he's an idiot? > > But that's the think and why think he's written well. Because unlike Vlad or LB, he's not a mastermind, he's not clever because he's not been educated to be. He's been in servitude then jail most of his life so he doesn't understand the world. That is such a good assessment! Overall I will say Sylas really is not of a great mind, he is shady but too quick to act and that does and probably will be his ruin. And yes if he returns to Demacia and the other outcast mages see that only he is alive, they should question if Sylas really is doing this for the well being of all the mage outcasts and not just for his personal revenge... So either the rest of the mages decide not to go along anymore or he dies by his own foolish mistakes. He surely almost died in that story..
: More of these posts please
> [{quoted}](name=ZGM Raven,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=P0fJeEKi,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2019-11-20T13:08:41.418+0000) > > More of these posts please Glad you like it! Could I ask, do you like the thread style,quality or the topic itself? Curious to see what part you like as I have been making such threads before so feel free to browse through my old discussions too!
Jaspers (EUW)
: Sylas is an idiot. I mean really. It's a weird thing, I like how he's written. A bumbling fool who's own ambition is so driven by one goal that he doesn't actually get the world around him. But I hate how he's made out to some great character and a big leader when anyone following this fool should be killed like he should. He has prime role in how Demacia works, redefining Lux, J4 and Garen, multiple stories flung upon him and he's just not likeable. I like Magneto as he is a complex villain of years of character progression but even then he had charisma, charm and poise, Sylas doesn't have any, he's a lucky lieing idiot. EDIT: How the Freljord folk were written was great though. More of them, less of Sylas please.
> [{quoted}](name=Jaspers,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=P0fJeEKi,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2019-11-20T10:49:10.222+0000) > > Sylas is an idiot. I mean really. It's a weird thing, I like how he's written. A bumbling fool who's own ambition is so driven by one goal that he doesn't actually get the world around him. But I hate how he's made out to some great character and a big leader when anyone following this fool should be killed like he should. > > He has prime role in how Demacia works, redefining Lux, J4 and Garen, multiple stories flung upon him and he's just not likeable. I like Magneto as he is a complex villain of years of character progression but even then he had charisma, charm and poise, Sylas doesn't have any, he's a lucky lieing idiot. > > EDIT: How the Freljord folk were written was great though. More of them, less of Sylas please. You know the first sentence really pushed me to think further... What if his foolishness and idiocy dooms him? Yes his power and mentality is a threat to freljord or for now, the Winter's Claw, but his own unsettling need to act fast and go further to an extreme could possibly cause his naive and idiotic demise... He is not clever like Leblanc is or Vladimir.. He acts for the sake of acting without giving his actions **any major thought** and the fact that he grabbed a true ice weapon without thinking about any consequences shows that clearly!
: DOES THIS MEAN WE GETTING A FRELJORD {{champion:517}} SKIN?
> [{quoted}](name=LightswornLance,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=P0fJeEKi,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2019-11-20T02:09:29.606+0000) > > DOES THIS MEAN WE GETTING A FRELJORD {{champion:517}} SKIN? oh lord who knows lol
: I have spent soooooo many hours reading lore and I think I have some ideas to answer your questions, so Ill try > why did the shaman lie? She said to Vrynna that the old gods wished for him to live but then later on she lied to Vrynna about what he said because she finds Sylas attractive (No wonder Lissandra wants to kill shamans when they're that dumb and easily deceived :')) About this I think she didnt lie because she felt attracted to Sylas, I think she does that because she want to convince Vrynna's crew, and specially Brokvar. She want them to follow Sylas because she thinks that is her gods wishes. And about the part you assume she is a Lissandra follower im not that sure. The Lissandra followers are called frost priests, and she is called "shamanka", that I dont know if is the female form of shaman in Freljord, or if it represents another kind of magical beings in there, only depending to the gods, and not conected Lissandra or any Warmother. > Another weird thing is, Winter's Claw still praise the Three Sisters... I thought that was not the case anymore but if it is, it makes me wonder if there is still frostguard priests around their sites. Here I think the story answer you directly with this > The Three Sisters were legends, the greatest and most honored warriors of the Freljord. They were the first of the Iceborn, and had lived in the age of heroes, long ago. Across much of the frozen north, they had come to be regarded as chosen ones, and many invoked their wisdom in times of strife, or begged their favor before battle. Edit: Grammar
> [{quoted}](name=Korvus Klaw,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=P0fJeEKi,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-11-19T22:59:41.181+0000) > > I have spent soooooo many hours reading lore and I think I have some ideas to answer your questions, so Ill try > > About this I think she didnt lie because she felt attracted to Sylas, I think she does that because she want to convince Vrynna's crew, and specially Brokvar. She want them to follow Sylas because she thinks that is her gods wishes. And about the part you assume she is a Lissandra follower im not that sure. The Lissandra followers are called frost priests, and she is called "shamanka", that I dont know if is the female form of shaman in Freljord, or if it represents another kind of magical beings in there, only depending to the gods, and not conected Lissandra or any Warmother. > > Here I think the story answer you directly with this > > > Edit: Grammar Awesome I actually forgot about that reference!
: I dislike the story for the simple reason that Sylas' venture to the north feels like defeat to him. So far demacia seems to have a record of somehow being unbeatable and this event just stirrs that rough assumption more towards being true, and I honestly dislike it. Sure, Sylas got further than any noxian ever did, starting a civil war and getting the king killed and forcing lux to reveal herself as a magician, but I don't think he should have had to retreat gen north to begin with. Althoe, if the changes start bringing him devastating victories, why not? It would certainly create a build up towards a climatic finale if Sylas begins to seriously win against Demacia thanks to the Freljordians, forcing them towards the south when they aren't really united yet. It would push Ashe and the Avarosians in a place of diplomatic dispute with Demacia as well as force her hand for good against Sejuani and Lissandra, which means that this event just might finalize Ashe's arc and whether or not Freljord will truly be united or not. Furthermore, it might actually cause Ashe to side with Demacia to stop the Winter's Claw, which might change her view on the southerners and loosen her up to peace negociations. Overall I see this as a massive potential for the final development for all of Freljord. Whether that was intended or not will be a different question entirely.
> [{quoted}](name=Eternal Torment,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=P0fJeEKi,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-11-19T22:38:12.005+0000) > > I dislike the story for the simple reason that Sylas' venture to the north feels like defeat to him. So far demacia seems to have a record of somehow being unbeatable and this event just stirrs that rough assumption more towards being true, and I honestly dislike it. Sure, Sylas got further than any noxian ever did, starting a civil war and getting the king killed and forcing lux to reveal herself as a magician, but I don't think he should have had to retreat gen north to begin with. > > Althoe, if the changes start bringing him devastating victories, why not? It would certainly create a build up towards a climatic finale if Sylas begins to seriously win against Demacia thanks to the Freljordians, forcing them towards the south when they aren't really united yet. It would push Ashe and the Avarosians in a place of diplomatic dispute with Demacia as well as force her hand for good against Sejuani and Lissandra, which means that this event just might finalize Ashe's arc and whether or not Freljord will truly be united or not. Furthermore, it might actually cause Ashe to side with Demacia to stop the Winter's Claw, which might change her view on the southerners and loosen her up to peace negociations. > > Overall I see this as a massive potential for the final development for all of Freljord. > > Whether that was intended or not will be a different question entirely. Fair point and nice assessment :)
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The Iceborn

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