Meddler (NA)
: Really substantial change for Swain's likely to be quite a way off yeah (highly unlikely this year, can't predict so usefully beyond that). We do think he'd benefit a lot from a full overhaul, he's certainly not in Taric, Yorick etc tier though, they've got significantly bigger problems than he does.
If the rework is so far away, can we get some small changes to swain ? He has been in a terrible state since the nerfs. Above that, he is sometimes frustrating to play, both as him or against him. I understand he is hard to balance but I think you do have enough room to maneuver before making him op. Buffing a champ to help him wait for a rework has already been done in the past and I think swain would benefit from it.
: Killing the minions with Mages is easy. Last hitting is another story.
DoFr (NA)
: there's 1 mastery that i feel like it should never have left..
We already have enough problems with ap on hit damage dealers (hello guinsoo). Butcher grants us more farming potential earlier on. I don't want this mastery back.
Stiv1234 (EUW)
: PSA: If your jungler gets invaded, get your ass out of your lane and help him
You are speaking like the kill is garenteed. The enemy jungler is not stupid, he'll look for ss and leave your jungle when they occur, lettting the "helpful" laner lose farm with no kill/assist to compensate. Really, like anyone has a chance to kill a shaco that's not a complete moron.
: I am a noob
Point in adc build is to have a good balance between attack speed, critical chance and attack damage to optimize your damages. Build lifesteal if you have problems surviving. The equilibrium varies between the adc, as some synergise better with some statistics. In Varus's case, you will need a bit more attack speed to proc his w. I won't give you any specific build as i'm a bad adc, but it's important to understand these few mecanics to find builds that fit your playstyle.
excodar (NA)
: Rengar
That's actualy what riot turned most champs that have stealth into, as they judged it is an unhealthy mecanic. Fast assassination is common. Counterplayless and unpredictable murders (unless turning the summoner rift into a freaking Christamas tree from all the wards - which is impossible given the current vision limitations) are however hardly fair.
: Zed mid is so awful to play against
The items are fair, hexdrinker has more than a right to exists as long as people can build zhonya (although zhonya will probably cost 4800 gold in 2017). What bothers me about zed is that a champ that has so much all in and bully potential shouldn't be able to play so safe. It's like he can snowball but not be snowballed. He's not the only champ that is weak late game and his early game oriented counters should have the right to kill him without taking absurd risks to get through his range and dashes.
: According to Winrate against zed: 52.19 Winrate against yasuo: 53.8 Oh wait, you don't actually have any evidence to back up your claim and are so ready to mock my statement? I'm sorry, better go inject a medicine called "anti biasm" into your system.
Speaking of, these statistics are from the "middle champions that COUNTER Lux column". As for yasuo, having his opponent winning only 53.8% games is actualy an improvment, as his overall winrate is 45,29%. Don't get me wrong, lux and brand are very strong atm (and also happen to counter my main before you call me biased) but don't invent them strenghts they don't have if you want a fair balancing.
: But {{champion:113}} and {{champion:50}} aren't unviable. 52% winrate and 49% winrate. Not trying to use these as sole ways of measuring balance, but Sej is being played by Sej mains and doing just fine with her, while Swain went from 54% down to 49% but even if you inspect closer you find he is still doing the same as before with the Swain mains. I can even attest to not noticing his nerf at all from playing him.
Sejuani's nerf was long ago, there were too many meta changes to analyse it clearly. As for swain, a champion who has a 1.73% pick rate should have a win rate above 50%. He actually did have a winrate around 52% for years and was deemed balanced before DFT was created. I main swain and the nerfs _are_ harsh. Well, that's not the subject anyway, though it is clearly an issue.
: cry me a river, l2p skill champs like {{champion:238}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:412}} or suck it up ;) Riot likes champions who have high skill cap and offer counterplay. Don't want to get damaged by Zed? Sidestep his shurikens, or are you too bad? Don't want to get hooked by thresh? side step it, or do you suck? Don't want to get rekt by Lee? side step his Q! Funny how only low elo bad players hate on high skill cap champs like the three I named.
Funny how popular they are at worlds. Would the pros be so bad at dodging?
Rioter Comments
: This is the right place. I also main Swain, and while I'm hardly excited about this nerf, it is probably fine. He's real strong right now, and they'll revert if the changes to DFT bring him real low.
I wish i did believe it.
: actually, ADcarries are swain's favorite snack because they tend to not favor resistances unless they build a guardian angel one spell rotation early game is enough to bring an adc to 30% and late game it will be a full kill champions that swain does not do well against are tanks who can withstand his damage over time and with their damage, undo his pseudo sustain
The delayed burst usually allows them to save themselves through lifesteal when they take some (especially with the BT shield). While swain can be said to be effective against them as he still wins fight against them most of the times, he is less efficient against them than other midlaners. Since they are balanced to deal damages relative to how easy other mages and assassins can kill them, I do consider them as one of swain's harshest weakness. Also, those who benefit the most from low resistances are the ones who have no sustain damages. Which is not really swain's case.
: Top lane swain is cancer, tho.
So true. Well, toplaners do tend to take executioner's calling when against swain in lane, so his stats are bad here (they even were before the preseason), but swain top _is_ kind of bitchy.
: I don't think i understand the DFT changes. They seem like a buff to DoTs to me. 2 more base damage done over 2/3 of the amount of time. 8 base damage vs 6, over 1 second vs 1.5
Having the damages divided on a longer span makes each tick worth less damages. Since dots increase the amounts of ticks more than other spells, that change nerfs the use dots make of DFT while buffing it for regular mages. A very fair change, I actually thought they would do that at some point, I just wish they wouldn't nerf the champs that abused it, now that it is balanced.
: his nerfs were long overdue. the way to beat was to stay and get a gank, because if unlucky enough to get rooted, your life was over
Oh not quite true, though he indeed does fear ganks. I can hardly give a complete list of the ways to beat him, but let me try. - Control push (very easy given his waveclear) to either shove the lane just before your tower to get ganks, or push him under his to get a comfortable farm advantage. - Bully him pre 6 - Use long ranged abilities to poke him down - Use mobility to dodge his w (or even without mobility, it's quite easy to dodge actualy) or all in him while his ult is down - Push then roam (Swain can't do anything against fed adcs, the dots are countered by lifesteal) - Well, lifesteal while i am at it, though not many midlaners can take it - Cleansing items (Mikael, mercurial) cancel not only his snare, but also his slow, suppressing quite a nice part of his burst - In tfs, have your support be ready to unload shields and heals on his target, it is very easy to save someone from him as his burst leaves enough time to do so (you should see what a soraka can do against swain, that's actually pretty funny) Can't think of others, I may add some if I remember.
: I do love the Brand and Swain nerfs, but you have to remember Riot
DFT nerfs are already on the PBE, thank you for playing, game over. No seriously, I'm a swain main and I just reacted the same way as you.
Rioter Comments
Pyro (EUNE)
: As a PBE player, let me tell you in advance what's the frontpage going to look like in the Preseason
Hmm, you are one step ahead for the assassin complain, let people enough time to realise that adc are the strongest and thus that assassins are needed to counter them. And let the cycle begin once again...
: You might still use it on champions whose kits practically 'require' the item, but that just makes the issue "These champions were **directly** nerfed without compensation"
And it's even funnier when those are champions who are already nerfed by other item changes _cough cough_ healing champs _cough cough_ Farewell Fiddle, swain and all your kind.
: Why is Rylai's getting a 40% slow to AOE skills?
Dunno. It seems pretty strong but I think they buffed the slow because slow reduction will be available for everyone through masteries changes. Can't be sure though.
: Proposal: A recommended 18+ queue
Hmm, the "gg ez" not being reportable will actualy make the "14 years old" come to rage freely and make the "grown up" avoid the queue to have an actual way to report the "kids" they meet. A system created to please "grown up" that pleases trolls.
: Anyone else feel that Ekko's kit just doesn't feel right?
I'm more worried about the fact that his kit seems overloaded... Seriously, try to name one thing Diana has that he doesn't have, count the remaining passives and abilities, and you'll realise there's a problem, even tho diana is probably to be tankier or to deal more damages than ekko. But eh, it's easier to buy damages than mobility.
Alphalex (EUW)
: Nerf on Janna
She's still one of the strongest support tbh. Reducing the accuracy of her Q doesn't prevent her from stopping anyone trying to attack her ADC.
: Thornmail should deal stacking true damage over time based on the user's maximum health
I really like the idea of health scalings, it would be a good way to give the tanks some love. It, however, should also still have scalings based on the attacker's ad (maybe you weren't planning to remove it, I don't know). The ideas of dot and true damages are interesting too, but I don't think there is a need for these particuliar changes.
Riot Jag (NA)
: [5.2] Live Gameplay Patch Forecast
Am I the only one thinking this removal of DFG will enforce the ADC domination ? Assassins got nerfed in the end of season 3 because they were omnipresent in the pro scene. They are now coming back, even though they did not receive a real buff. I do think that the reason is that ADC got buffed, which caused most teams to need them harder to destroy this new new threat. Assassins might have been the only thing that balanced ADC, and they are now getting nerfed. I think we'll need some nerf to ADC itemisation to compensate it (I'm maily thinking about botrk and LW, two items that also create the problem of tanks unviability). I don't regret this nerf to assassin because they're currently too strong but we'll have to be careful about its consequences.
: There's a difference between in-lane and in-teamfight performance. While his in-lane performance wasn't severly worsened his teamfight performance took a severe hit.
Hmm, not really. I do think that Swain shouldn't take mana regen at all so he isn't really concerned there. About your post itself, i really agree. I think the original purpose of these mana regen changes was to weaken siege comps (who lacked counterplay) but the champs you listed shouldn't suffer from these nerfs.
: can you tell us why he isn't balanced?
He can snowball, he can't be snowballed. At least in lane. I don't really play him so i can't tell, but i don't think he falls that hard late game.
: Solution: Go to your LoL folder -> RADS -> projects -> lol_patcher -> releases and delete folder and then run again lol launcher, enjoy game :D
: One mechanic is opportunity costs, another is making the impact of the item primarily help out low-mobility allies (as opposed to being entirely selfish). The Phage upgrade idea was sort of directed towards specifically helping out immobile/low-mobility melees stick to a target, while providing a fallback itemization option for RADCs (particularly ones like Ashe, Varus, Sivir, and Kalista). That being said, I lack the game knowledge (particularly of Summoner's Rift) to properly evaluate how such an item would actually impact the game. For now I defer to your judgement.
One of the ideas which have been suggested in the comments is the creation of a new kind of cc that would prevent champions from dashing. It would be a huge work to create it and to balance the champions it would affect the most, but since silences are beeing slowly removed, this might be a interesting possibility to replace it (one of the purpose of the silence of soraka's new e is to prevent ennemies from dashing out of the area). It would be a good way to impact the mobile champion's gameplay without afflecting the stationary champions.


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