AIQ (NA)
: A look inside Riot HQ after 9.14
https://giphy.com/gifs/fighting-7XqRXKYV9odtm/fullscreen
Salron (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Juxin,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=rzUixto3,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-07-18T04:42:11.435+0000) > > Then what is its purpose? Literally to make sure the game doesn't crash Any bugs they catch beyond that are just a bonus
> [{quoted}](name=Salron,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=rzUixto3,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-07-18T07:37:58.706+0000) > > Literally to make sure the game doesn't crash > Any bugs they catch beyond that are just a bonus Game is crashing though, if you looked through the boards recently you´ll spot several bugs that are to that effect in play, for one or several players since this patch.
: > [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LKojLFpu,comment-id=00000002000000010001000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-16T23:34:58.201+0000) > > And that´s the difference compared to before. > > You can run Ashe with either Comet, PtA, FF or LT and people wont bat an eye, before if you ran anything except fervor or bloodthirst (Whichever was meta at the time) then you´d get straight up called a griefer/troll. Nope. Back then, our runes and masteries weren't put in the client for others to see, so the only way you knew what a teammate was bringing into the game was if you looked it up on a website like the former LOLKing.net. And with that, people didn't call others troll for taking something different. > > Ah those,,,,,,,if i recall right then above like gold or something everyone basically just ran exactly the same pages with some cheeky buggers stuffing in 1% critchance somewhere, and that was it. Nope. Like I told the previous person here, people did a lot of customization in their sets depending on the champ they were playing and the matchup. High ranked players did it as well. > > The masteries tree´s are essentially kept, most of them were just minor stat boosts anyway which got combined into larger ones, it was even partially fused with todays rune system in which we have real scaling options that work the same or even better. They weren't minor stats. They had a huge impact in the way your champ worked, and are still to this day better than the shit we have now- which is also basically the same in the fact that there are smaller "masteries" leading to a big one. > > Those 30 points were just filler for reaching a handful of actually notable ones that mostly got placed further down, such as the keystones or a 5% lifesteal buff etc- Nope. > > Those 6 points are basically what you get when you remove all the redundant and useless stuff from the old trees, pretty much everything of note was indeed kept. Nope. Old stuff was way more valuable than what there is now. > > Some effects like bandit even got moved over to items like spellthiefs edge. > > "All of them" > > The only ones who could consistently heal&shield well back then were Janna, Soraka, Lulu and Sona, and Sona certainly opted into thunderlords often enough, as did lulu. > > Who else could actually use it? .....really dude? Janna, Soraka, Lulu, Sona, Nami, Karma, Morgana, Lux. > "Was best" > > Thats not the problem, problem was that it didnt work on anyone else, period, except Jhin&mf for a while until removal via nerfs. > > Old system didnt have multiple setups, 80-90% of the population used the same builds and the same setups with minor changes like some extra MR or armor in one matchup or another if they had a lot of rune pages. Again, wrong. Not repeating myself again, read my comment on this above. > > You providing 0 evidence for any of your claims is equally respectful, all i see are baseless claims while we have Riot themselves stating that the system was revamped due to the extreme lack of diversity which was extremely boring for everyone involved. I have provided evidence, and you attacking me is with the rose tinted glasses comment is extremely disrespectful. And hundreds of people know that Riot basically removed diversity, even though they say they were doing it "because their was a lack." > > Lets look at the old ferocity tree. > > 1. 2% attackspeed or spelldamage. > > 2. Taste of blood (same as we got now but a worse one) / a 20 HP heal on a minion kill every 30 sec /3% bonus damage on a enemy hit by one of your abilities for your allies. > > 3. 2% lifesteal and spellvamp / scaling stats going up to 10 AD+18 AP lvl 18. > > 4. 1% bonus damage for each unique champ killed / 3% bonus damage&1,5 taken / ramping 3% bonus damage in combat vs enemy champ. > > 5. 7% armor pen / 7% magic pen. > > 6 . Warlords bloodthirst (Fleet footwork) / fervor / deathfire touch. > > > So for your average marksman: > > 2% attackspeeed. > taste of blood. > 2% lifesteal. > 5% bonus damage. > 7% armor pen. > Fervor= 80 AD. > > All of them ran this, no exceptions unless trolling. Exceptions are not trolling dude. Stop that. > > Then from the resolve tree (most common but not mandatory) one could get. > > 2 bonus HP regen per 5. > 15+movespeed in brush/river. > 8% bonus heal&shields. > > Would you look at that? Basically just minor stat buffs with 0 real interaction and naturally given that some stats were more helpful for some champs everyone naturally just ran the same stuff always because that´s what people do, if they have clear alternatives with obvious differences then they take the best. Most marksmen ran 18/0/12, not into the resolve tree bud. So they usually went for biscuits/cdr/other utility that was actually useful for them. > > > Take a good long hard look at the mastery/rune tree´s we have today and be honest, can you even compare them? No matter how i look at it the modern tree´s offer good options on each row that all have noticeable impact or influence while the old one was was generally completely insignificant aside from the keystone. I already can compare because the previous system not only had defense but multiple unique ways to customize your champion, and that's what made the game GREAT. The new system removed defense, added a shit ton of stupid damage, and called it a day. > > Diverse? No not at all, some stats were better for your champs so you ran those or got called a troll, and honestly the difference was often so large it was basically justified in many cases. Nope. > > > But there was a exception to the "only keystones really had a impact" rule.....which was the bandit mastery, the one that at the time gave 1 gold for each minion killed by an ally nearby as well as some gold for hitting a champ with a cooldown. > > You remember this one? Every single support and their dogs used it, or they pretty much crippled their own laning and suffered miserably. > > What great diversity!...Not. It is great! > > The new system does indeed have fewer options, but almost every single one of them is a legitimate option that has a noticeable effect more often than not....you dont believe me? Still don't. > > Look at the modern trees, find my any except the resolve one that doesnt offer at least 2 good and considerable options on each row for the majority of users.
> [{quoted}](name=MiracleMorg94,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LKojLFpu,comment-id=000000020000000100010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-17T01:46:36.928+0000) > > Nope. Back then, our runes and masteries weren't put in the client for others to see, so the only way you knew what a teammate was bringing into the game was if you looked it up on a website like the former LOLKing.net. LolNexus was common and well used, and keystones were displayed even in game. > And with that, people didn't call others troll for taking something different. In regards to keystones, or bandit for supports, if you didnt pick the right one then you´d never hear the end of it, 100% in ranked. > Nope. Like I told the previous person here, people did a lot of customization in their sets depending on the champ they were playing and the matchup. High ranked players did it as well. Your own, highly subjective opinion with no evidence. Riot revamped the system as a result of seeing that 80%+ ran the same shit over and over. > They weren't minor stats. They had a huge impact in the way your champ worked, and are still to this day better than the shit we have now- which is also basically the same in the fact that there are smaller "masteries" leading to a big one. Newsflash man, that small amount of scatter stats did not make that much of a difference at all, only a small handful like bandit or the 8% heal increase did. > Nope. What is there that was good from the old systems that doesnt exist now? > .....really dude? Janna, Soraka, Lulu, Sona, Nami, Karma, Morgana, Lux. Morgana and lux did not use windspeakers. lulu frequently also did not, heck i just recalled that you even ran thunderlords on Sona for early pressure lanes too, despite it being a bit hard to activate it. As mentioned, Morgana had such an easy time activating thunderlords to the point where windspeakers was basically trolling due to how little it didnt in comparision, she also had no AOE heal or shielding to maximise value out of windspeakers which is a large part of why it got strong on say Sona later in a game. Lux? People played her for damage, they still do, otherwise someone would run aery on her now which doesnt happen......aftershock is just enabling more damage by negating return fire. Lulu had a ridiculously easy time activating thunderlords with her multi hitting autos&spells so she frequently used it. > Again, wrong. Not repeating myself again, read my comment on this above. You might wana read what i wrote, i typed out it had a small group of users, whom were basically exclusive. Malz and Cassio for examples, then if wanting the entire list you can probably add Teemo, Brand and Swain. Out of 120 something champs, 5 could use it, such diversity. > I have provided evidence, and you attacking me is with the rose tinted glasses comment is extremely disrespectful. And hundreds of people know that Riot basically removed diversity, even though they say they were doing it "because their was a lack." You are incredibly good at making comments and statements with 0 proof or evidence to back you up which is what i am seriously annoyed at. Riot has not removed diversity, that utter bullshit, present keystone and runepages being far more diverse is final proof of this. > Exceptions are not trolling dude. Stop that. You either ran the optimal stats or you were gimping yourself which is trolling, there is no arguing this. > Most marksmen ran 18/0/12, not into the resolve tree bud. So they usually went for biscuits/cdr/other utility that was actually useful for them. Lifesteal&healing&shielding enhancements were incredibly useful if you actually got lifesteal early or had a heal&shield support, wasnt always but it was good when it was the case. Furthermore the resolve tree had something that was priceless for many marksmen in the row after the bonus healing/shields, options for more health regen or 15% summoner spell CDR AKA flash&heal/barrier CDR. > I already can compare because the previous system not only had defense but multiple unique ways to customize your champion, and that's what made the game GREAT. Customize your champion how? Game still has defense? '' Like look, if you used the old runes to runes say flat armor seals you´d end up with 9 armor, present system with a similar option lands you with 12 armor if you go all for it. Difference would be that you could also run flat magic resistance glyphs to have a similar amount of MR,,,,,,which wasnt actually used much because majority ´s would get resistance for their matchup then bring in more damage for the unused resistance slot. But If you used your masteries for defensive options then from the resolve tree you´d gain : * 2 extra hp per 5 seconds, * 2 less damage per monster and champion attack *8% bonus heals&shields or 50 bonus health *50% base health regen bonus going up to 200% if below to 25% health *10% bonus armor and MR when attacked by a champ with a minor scaling. Compared to present system? Less flat resistances and and options were weaker. Domination tree offers taste of blood&ravenous hunter if you want sustain (for ability users) Precision has bloodlines and overheal (mainly for lifesteal users) Sorcery has nullifying orb against magic burst, available to anyone. Resolve has second wind or boneplating, some of the best actually defensive runes there has ever been early and everyone can use them. Inspiration has biscuit delivery and time warp for sustain. (works for everyone) > The new system removed defense, added a shit ton of stupid damage, and called it a day. The system removed defense that wasnt actually used anyway, gave minor buffs to the used bits then added damage, that´s where some problems came in but the resolve tree still had to get nerfed and revamped before people really felt it because it was too strong in the start. New system also added a shitton of sustain. > Nope. You didnt pick bandit as a support? Troll. Didnt pick lifesteal&healing shielding enhancement as a marksman going for it early with with relevant support or when playing vladimir? Troll. Endless such cases existed. > It is great! ....Are you legit trolling? I just presented proof that your claims are bullshit because that rune was crystal clear evidence that there was no actual freedom of choice and you keep at it? > Still don't. You are legit trolling, endless baseless claims with logic or reason to back you up ,hells no proof at all either, you even ignore what i write. I wont be following up on this discussion anymore........should have known better than to respond to someone who doesnt even have the backbone to post from their main account, and if you actually were trying to be serious then you have to put some actual effort into it or its the same as bloody trolling. Its like 2 researchers debating and only one of them has actually done any research and is presenting it while the other tells him he´s wrong but has no proof or logic to back his claim? Its the same as spitting on the effort of the first guy, a full blown troll. Which is exactly what you are doing now, ontop of posting from a smurf account as if you are afraid of something, being hella spineless :( ....Ontop of actually having a second account indicating you actually went smurfing at some point which is being an asshole as icing on the cake.
: > [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LKojLFpu,comment-id=000000020000000100010000,timestamp=2019-07-16T22:05:32.394+0000) > > Your own opinion with no backing, i can meanwhile direct you to the existence of a Garen onetrick in NA challenger who basically switches his build around entirely each game depending on his opponent and enemy team. I was talking about the best viable options, not ALL of them. I know there's more than one option, but not all of them are the best. > > He runs anything he feels is helpful from grasp,aftershock, phase rush, conqueror, predator, glacial augment and even unsealed spellbook, 7 different keystone setups. > > 7? Garen used to have 2, grasp or stormraiders. > > > Furthermore just looking at someone simple like say Ashe we can verify, how many runes can she use well? > > All the precision ones except conqueror, she can also use arcane comment and its even meta right now. > > Orianna? Electrolute, Aery, comet, phase rush and unsealed spellbook. > > Shyvana? Conqueror, dark harvest, PtA. > > Vi? Conqueror, aftershock, electrolute and hail of blades. > > > Morgana? Aery, comet, glacial augment and even guardian are being used. You are using the example of only the one "main" keystone that champs use. I'm talking about the overall setup as a WHOLE, has less customization than the old system. The old system had the RUNES- flat or scaling stats you could use (reds, yellows, blues, purples). Then we had the MASTERIES- three trees full of options to choose from- over 30 points were in each tree, and you got 30 to use for your overall page. Meaning you can go full offense (18/12/0), half and half (18/0/12) or full defense (0/12/18). The overall system now? You only get TWO trees to select from, and only get 6 POINTS. Riot only added the 3 small stat slots much later into the game where now most people don't even opt into the defense because it's so lackluster, and they just go for more damage instead. > > Windspeaker? I dont think i ever saw anyone except Janna and Soraka run it, it was even so good it got nerfed to the point where they both started running thunderlords and it was a giant meme for a while, although it was buffed back later.,,,,,but only so much that they were certainly the only users. I saw it run on all the heal/shield supports, including myself I ran it on all of them. I don't ever recall any of them taking thunderlords at all. They were not the only users by a long shot. > > It was kinda like deathfire touch in having like such a small group of exclusive users which was quite the joke on its own, but i did forget that Grasp of the undying existed and some used it, it was just so uncommon due to fervor and CoC being far more popular. Well duh, DT was best on the mages that had DOT abilities, mainly mages like Brand. Tanks never went for Fervor, so they had Grasp and CoC that were their main ones. > Before we saw Ashe run fervor or warlords, never anything else, 2 setups vs today's 4. > > Ori ran thunderlords, 1 setup vs present 5. > > Shyvana was kinda a joke but she only ran fervor too, 1 vs 3. > > Darius, used to run only fervor but now he can run aftershock, conqueror, grasp, phase rush and even PTA, check the master elo guide on his reddit if you want verification. > > Vi? 2 vs 4 setups. Again, only talking about the main keystones. Like I said above, there are options that they can run, but not are the best, leaving one or two as the main ones. Old system had multiple BEST setups people could run, so with that, both systems are equal. > > > So all in all....you´re telling me diversity has decreased with these being the case? I highly recommend you take off your multilayered rose tinted&heart shaped glasses that you look at the past with, looks damn ridiculous. Wow. How rude. And yes, diversity has decreased. > > And no i havent been saying its perfect either, there are still cases of some champs being balanced around their runes just like old janna&windspeakers which is bad, but diversity is still higher overall. LOL nope, it's not. Nice try tho.
> [{quoted}](name=MiracleMorg94,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LKojLFpu,comment-id=0000000200000001000100000000,timestamp=2019-07-16T22:34:46.647+0000) > > I was talking about the best viable options, not ALL of them. I know there's more than one option, but not all of them are the best. And that´s the difference compared to before. You can run Ashe with either Comet, PtA, FF or LT and people wont bat an eye, before if you ran anything except fervor or bloodthirst (Whichever was meta at the time) then you´d get straight up called a griefer/troll. > You are using the example of only the one "main" keystone that champs use. I'm talking about the overall setup as a WHOLE, has less customization than the old system. The old system had the RUNES- flat or scaling stats you could use (reds, yellows, blues, purples). Then we had the MASTERIES- three trees full of options to choose from- over 30 points were in each tree, and you got 30 to use for your overall page. Meaning you can go full offense (18/12/0), half and half (18/0/12) or full defense (0/12/18). Ah those,,,,,,,if i recall right then above like gold or something everyone basically just ran exactly the same pages with some cheeky buggers stuffing in 1% critchance somewhere, and that was it. The masteries tree´s are essentially kept, most of them were just minor stat boosts anyway which got combined into larger ones, it was even partially fused with todays rune system in which we have real scaling options that work the same or even better. Those 30 points were just filler for reaching a handful of actually notable ones that mostly got placed further down, such as the keystones or a 5% lifesteal buff etc- > The overall system now? You only get TWO trees to select from, and only get 6 POINTS. Riot only added the 3 small stat slots much later into the game where now most people don't even opt into the defense because it's so lackluster, and they just go for more damage instead. Those 6 points are basically what you get when you remove all the redundant and useless stuff from the old trees, pretty much everything of note was indeed kept. Some effects like bandit even got moved over to items like spellthiefs edge. > I saw it run on all the heal/shield supports, including myself I ran it on all of them. I don't ever recall any of them taking thunderlords at all. "All of them" The only ones who could consistently heal&shield well back then were Janna, Soraka, Lulu and Sona, and Sona certainly opted into thunderlords often enough, as did lulu. > They were not the only users by a long shot. Who else could actually use it? > Well duh, DT was best on the mages that had DOT abilities, mainly mages like Brand. Tanks never went for Fervor, so they had Grasp and CoC that were their main ones. "Was best" Thats not the problem, problem was that it didnt work on anyone else, period, except Jhin&mf for a while until removal via nerfs. > Again, only talking about the main keystones. Like I said above, there are options that they can run, but not are the best, leaving one or two as the main ones. Old system had multiple BEST setups people could run, so with that, both systems are equal. Old system didnt have multiple setups, 80-90% of the population used the same builds and the same setups with minor changes like some extra MR or armor in one matchup or another if they had a lot of rune pages. > Wow. How rude. And yes, diversity has decreased. You providing 0 evidence for any of your claims is equally respectful, all i see are baseless claims while we have Riot themselves stating that the system was revamped due to the extreme lack of diversity which was extremely boring for everyone involved. > LOL nope, it's not. Nice try tho. Lets look at the old ferocity tree. 1. 2% attackspeed or spelldamage. 2. Taste of blood (same as we got now but a worse one) / a 20 HP heal on a minion kill every 30 sec /3% bonus damage on a enemy hit by one of your abilities for your allies. 3. 2% lifesteal and spellvamp / scaling stats going up to 10 AD+18 AP lvl 18. 4. 1% bonus damage for each unique champ killed / 3% bonus damage&1,5 taken / ramping 3% bonus damage in combat vs enemy champ. 5. 7% armor pen / 7% magic pen. 6 . Warlords bloodthirst (Fleet footwork) / fervor / deathfire touch. So for your average marksman: 2% attackspeeed. taste of blood. 2% lifesteal. 5% bonus damage. 7% armor pen. Fervor= 80 AD. All of them ran this, no exceptions unless trolling. Then from the resolve tree (most common but not mandatory) one could get. 2 bonus HP regen per 5. 15+movespeed in brush/river. 8% bonus heal&shields. Would you look at that? Basically just minor stat buffs with 0 real interaction and naturally given that some stats were more helpful for some champs everyone naturally just ran the same stuff always because that´s what people do, if they have clear alternatives with obvious differences then they take the best. Take a good long hard look at the mastery/rune tree´s we have today and be honest, can you even compare them? No matter how i look at it the modern tree´s offer good options on each row that all have noticeable impact or influence while the old one was was generally completely insignificant aside from the keystone. Diverse? No not at all, some stats were better for your champs so you ran those or got called a troll, and honestly the difference was often so large it was basically justified in many cases. But there was a exception to the "only keystones really had a impact" rule.....which was the bandit mastery, the one that at the time gave 1 gold for each minion killed by an ally nearby as well as some gold for hitting a champ with a cooldown. You remember this one? Every single support and their dogs used it, or they pretty much crippled their own laning and suffered miserably. What great diversity!...Not. The new system does indeed have fewer options, but almost every single one of them is a legitimate option that has a noticeable effect more often than not....you dont believe me? Look at the modern trees, find my any except the resolve one that doesnt offer at least 2 good and considerable options on each row for the majority of users.
: > [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LKojLFpu,comment-id=0000000200000001,timestamp=2019-07-16T15:30:53.711+0000) > > Incorrect, at least partially. > > The users of the problematic runes are indeed more or less stuck with using them, hence my calling them a problem......Irelia w conqueror comes to mind as a good example, or Sejuani with aftershock. > > > But for many...or most mages,assassins marksmen, supports and others they have as much as 3, 4 or even more options to choose from when picking runes. Yea no. This new system only one or two. Old system had way more. > > Before you look between thunderlords,....and thunderlords, maybe deathfire touch if playing malzahar, teemo or maybe cassio, marksmen ran fervor or bloodthirst and melee basically always ran fervor or courage of the collusus. > > Hells even the damn support ran thunderlords if memory serves. Nope. I don't remember all the names but most went Windspeaker's blessing, with the other helpful supporting slots. Too bad I can't find the actual list of every old rune and mastery because I could argue better with it. > > > So indeed, diversity is unquestionably greater now, or at least there are more viable options although some are notably better than others but that is still not the case for all of them. Diversity is unquestionably WORSE now than it was before, full stop.
> [{quoted}](name=MiracleMorg94,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LKojLFpu,comment-id=00000002000000010001,timestamp=2019-07-16T16:11:15.351+0000) > > Yea no. This new system only one or two. Old system had way more. Your own opinion with no backing, i can meanwhile direct you to the existence of a Garen onetrick in NA challenger who basically switches his build around entirely each game depending on his opponent and enemy team. He runs anything he feels is helpful from grasp,aftershock, phase rush, conqueror, predator, glacial augment and even unsealed spellbook, 7 different keystone setups. 7? Garen used to have 2, grasp or stormraiders. Furthermore just looking at someone simple like say Ashe we can verify, how many runes can she use well? All the precision ones except conqueror, she can also use arcane comment and its even meta right now. Orianna? Electrolute, Aery, comet, phase rush and unsealed spellbook. Shyvana? Conqueror, dark harvest, PtA. Vi? Conqueror, aftershock, electrolute and hail of blades. Morgana? Aery, comet, glacial augment and even guardian are being used. > Nope. I don't remember all the names but most went Windspeaker's blessing, with the other helpful supporting slots. Too bad I can't find the actual list of every old rune and mastery because I could argue better with it. Windspeaker? I dont think i ever saw anyone except Janna and Soraka run it, it was even so good it got nerfed to the point where they both started running thunderlords and it was a giant meme for a while, although it was buffed back later.,,,,,but only so much that they were certainly the only users. It was kinda like deathfire touch in having like such a small group of exclusive users which was quite the joke on its own, but i did forget that Grasp of the undying existed and some used it, it was just so uncommon due to fervor and CoC being far more popular. > Diversity is unquestionably WORSE now than it was before, full stop. Before we saw Ashe run fervor or warlords, never anything else, 2 setups vs today's 4. Ori ran thunderlords, 1 setup vs present 5. Shyvana was kinda a joke but she only ran fervor too, 1 vs 3. Darius, used to run only fervor but now he can run aftershock, conqueror, grasp, phase rush and even PTA, check the master elo guide on his reddit if you want verification. Vi? 2 vs 4 setups. So all in all....you´re telling me diversity has decreased with these being the case? I highly recommend you take off your multilayered rose tinted&heart shaped glasses that you look at the past with, looks damn ridiculous. And no i havent been saying its perfect either, there are still cases of some champs being balanced around their runes just like old janna&windspeakers which is bad, but diversity is still higher overall.
Pika Fox (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LKojLFpu,comment-id=0000000200000001,timestamp=2019-07-16T15:30:53.711+0000) > > Incorrect, at least partially. > > The users of the problematic runes are indeed more or less stuck with using them, hence my calling them a problem......Irelia w conqueror comes to mind as a good example, or Sejuani with aftershock. > > > But for many...or most mages,assassins marksmen, supports and others they have as much as 3, 4 or even more options to choose from when picking runes. > > Before you look between thunderlords,....and thunderlords, maybe deathfire touch if playing malzahar, teemo or maybe cassio, marksmen ran fervor or bloodthirst and melee basically always ran fervor or courage of the collusus. > > Hells even the damn support ran thunderlords if memory serves. > > > So indeed, diversity is unquestionably greater now, or at least there are more viable options although some are notably better than others but that is still not the case for all of them. Then you, objectively, were not that good. The only option 99% of champions in the game had were armor or hp yellows. Thats it. Thats the extent of old rune diversity at the highest tier of play. It got to the point where 1 single crit rune was a fucking massive game changing idea. A single crit rune.
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LKojLFpu,comment-id=00000002000000010000,timestamp=2019-07-16T15:34:27.128+0000) > > Then you, objectively, were not that good. > > The only option 99% of champions in the game had were armor or hp yellows. Thats it. Thats the extent of old rune diversity at the highest tier of play. > > It got to the point where 1 single crit rune was a fucking massive game changing idea. A single crit rune. ......Did you follow the conversation at all? Or did you write to the wrong person? I was arguing that the current system, while flawed, is still more diverse x)
Yenn (NA)
: My lane is 3-0-0 at level 6. I'm being 100 to 0'd in a single combo. I can't play the game.
Bruh. Being tilted to hell is fine but posting while in such a state is kinda silly. Yeah Akali got fed of your jungler being a moron? Yeah that really does suck, especially with her now wrecking you off it. Is it actually reasonable to demand being able to deal with her at that point though? Not at all, twice so if she counterpicked you by being Akali against many mages. All you can do is tell your jungler that you dont like him and move on, that´s it. And no its not akali specific, A fizz, Zed and a number of others would probably have done the same, just wrecking you with a gold and EXP lead that someone else gave them, it sucks balls to deal with it but it happens.
: > [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LKojLFpu,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2019-07-13T22:40:53.129+0000) > > Not really, it accomplished it´s goal very well of creating diversity by adding options so everyone didnt just run the same things, there are many who have several options to choose from to adapt their gameplay as they might wish. That is something i believe is very positive. > > > What isnt though, is that many of the runes were made with good intentions but poor vision/consideration of the future, examples of that would be Aftershock, Conqueror, kleptomancy and perhaps even dark harvest. > > > Even so, a lot of bad does not mean a lot of good didnt happen, it simply means we got both. > > > And i do prefer the present state of things overall compared when we had like......6-8 thunderlords and a pair of courage of the collosus users as well as potentially a pair of oddballs using either warlords bloodthirst or if malzahar/teemo, deathfire touch. Sorry but no. They created less diversity by taking out a lot of options we used to have, and pigenholing us into literally only one or two over the top runes while the rest are shit. We have less customization and diversity now then we did with the old runes and masteries.
> [{quoted}](name=MiracleMorg94,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LKojLFpu,comment-id=000000020000,timestamp=2019-07-16T13:13:06.225+0000) > > Sorry but no. They created less diversity by taking out a lot of options we used to have, and pigenholing us into literally only one or two over the top runes while the rest are shit. We have less customization and diversity now then we did with the old runes and masteries. Incorrect, at least partially. The users of the problematic runes are indeed more or less stuck with using them, hence my calling them a problem......Irelia w conqueror comes to mind as a good example, or Sejuani with aftershock. But for many...or most mages,assassins marksmen, supports and others they have as much as 3, 4 or even more options to choose from when picking runes. Before you look between thunderlords,....and thunderlords, maybe deathfire touch if playing malzahar, teemo or maybe cassio, marksmen ran fervor or bloodthirst and melee basically always ran fervor or courage of the collusus. Hells even the damn support ran thunderlords if memory serves. So indeed, diversity is unquestionably greater now, or at least there are more viable options although some are notably better than others but that is still not the case for all of them.
Proxy345 (NA)
: Autofill=Jungle 99% of the time lol
I keep getting thrown into support or toplane when autofilled.
Voluug13 (NA)
: > Healbot raka just sat back and healed for days while rarely running out of mana while also avoiding interaction, Yuumi cant avoid any of these to work at her best. Except that the patch changes set for her basically make her an uninteractive healbot. No mana return and worse shield means she has almost no incentive to proc her passive, and thus she becomes an almost worse, in all senses, healbot that Soraka.
> [{quoted}](name=Voluug13,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eyEqT8Rf,comment-id=0002000000010000,timestamp=2019-07-16T03:58:25.763+0000) > > Except that the patch changes set for her basically make her an uninteractive healbot. No mana return and worse shield means she has almost no incentive to proc her passive, and thus she becomes an almost worse, in all senses, healbot that Soraka. Not just almost a worse healbot, more like a nonfunctional one. To be honest i dont quite like the changes <.<
: > [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=6Zz3WPEk,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-15T08:44:36.501+0000) > > I havent played that one but the ....game developer? Koji Igarashi if i got the right guy, has some pretty funny trailers made with the game. Unlike some, it looks like he can actually take criticism with some grace, and even uses it to help improve the game!
> [{quoted}](name=EbonyBladeJ88,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=6Zz3WPEk,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-07-16T05:02:06.524+0000) > > Unlike some, it looks like he can actually take criticism with some grace, and even uses it to help improve the game! Dunno how graceful he is given that he seems to be tossing glasses with red wine about and torturing people when criticized but he does raise the quality certainly :P
KazKaz (OCE)
: That's just a straight up lie. If that were the case then an ability such as Draven's E wouldn't knock me out of my jump and cause me to not deal any damage outside of MAYBE W and/or E.
> [{quoted}](name=KazKaz,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T8eXlPU5,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2019-07-15T21:05:38.671+0000) > > That's just a straight up lie. If that were the case then an ability such as Draven's E wouldn't knock me out of my jump and cause me to not deal any damage outside of MAYBE W and/or E. I started looking it up after writing and it turns out that a well timed knockback also does stop the damage. Flashing or Dashing does not though, nor does charm, silence and a number of other CC types.
: > [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eyEqT8Rf,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-07-15T14:12:35.054+0000) > > Yuumi physically cannot be healbot soraka 2.0. > > Her heals are too low and mana costs too high. That is not the point. It is about the playstyle
> [{quoted}](name=Zeppelins circus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eyEqT8Rf,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-07-15T14:34:06.098+0000) > > That is not the point. It is about the playstyle .....That´s the entire point though isnt it? Healbot raka just sat back and healed for days while rarely running out of mana while also avoiding interaction, Yuumi cant avoid any of these to work at her best. Thus she can not be healbot raka 2.0.
: Lol, what? "This doesn't happen, but it does" Lol.
> [{quoted}](name=Romans VI XXIII,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T8eXlPU5,comment-id=000300040000,timestamp=2019-07-15T14:13:21.877+0000) > > Lol, what? > > "This doesn't happen, but it does" > > Lol. Heca´s E is a speedboost that goes into a unstoppable dash once he gets into ....going from basically next to you to like 250 range depending on how far he´s gone with his E, average melee range is like 170-180, marksmen tend to have around 550 and mages 600+ on abilities. Plenty of opportunity to hit him with some ranged CC before he gets into his range provided he hasnt activated a shitton of other movespeed boosters at the same time at which point you might not have much time at all, or the ability to hit him. So indeed,,,,,,Heca´s E is pretty easily stopped as long as he doesnt get to start the animation , unlike Rengar who has like....600 range on his dash and the damage applies the moment he passes 1/3rd of the jump distance or something.
: > [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LKojLFpu,comment-id=00000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-14T19:16:22.264+0000) > > And what most Garens want doesnt quite hold weight when Riste hit masters in the first place because he became able to adapt his builds because he had some many options to choose from.....sure having stormraider would make him better against some but he also would not have options against others, probably more so. > > A keystone being "abused" is almost always bad though, like Kayle greatly accelerating her game with klepto thus breaking her power curve until she got nerfed a lot for it. > > I actually consider Riste´s situation to be pretty ideal, his Garen doesnt hard on "abuse" anything to the point of being balanced around it and being unable to use anything else but instead he is fairly good with a lot of options which makes him flexible and able to respond&deal with more than usual. > > Despite having a very simplistic champion kit to work with. I don't think that Runes Reforged can be credited with riste hitting masters. It's iffy in general, to say whether Runes Reforged in general, has been good for Garen or not. In any event, Garen has unique circumstances; I don't think that the state of Garen is a good indicator for the state of the game.
> [{quoted}](name=True Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LKojLFpu,comment-id=000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-15T11:40:17.007+0000) > > I don't think that Runes Reforged can be credited with riste hitting masters. It's iffy in general, to say whether Runes Reforged in general, has been good for Garen or not. In any event, Garen has unique circumstances; I don't think that the state of Garen is a good indicator for the state of the game. State of garen is indeed not a indicator for the entire game, but i used him as example of what others should ideally be able to do, and many are able to do to a degree. There is a lot of bad stuff, but there is also a lot of good stuff that we wont notice as much.
: IGAVANIA LIVES!
I havent played that one but the ....game developer? Koji Igarashi if i got the right guy, has some pretty funny trailers made with the game.
KazKaz (OCE)
: It's not uninterruptable xD
> [{quoted}](name=KazKaz,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T8eXlPU5,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-07-14T08:17:57.093+0000) > > It's not uninterruptable xD It is actually. The moment Rengar start´s his jump he will 100% apply damage from it unless you use something like zhonya almost at the same time to avoid it.
FSRER (EUNE)
: Same goes for damned hecarim who you will also cc but his E will go out anyways.
> [{quoted}](name=FSRER,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T8eXlPU5,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-07-14T05:20:59.428+0000) > > Same goes for damned hecarim who you will also cc but his E will go out anyways. That doesnt actually happen though, unless he´s already very close and has started the E animation.
UomoAfide (EUW)
: That's the joke...
> [{quoted}](name=UomoAfide,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=YFjR6hP3,comment-id=000f00000000,timestamp=2019-07-14T20:00:57.114+0000) > > That's the joke... It didnt fit the model/standard that the rest followed :( Characters needs to have done at least something positive for it to work which Xerath really hasnt :P
UomoAfide (EUW)
: Xerath is a hero Seriously. The guy got rid of a corrupt regime that was using slavery and military power enacted by ascended human-animal hybrids to push other nations into submissions. Everything else he does can be excused because of that. That's all i had to say, thank you.
> [{quoted}](name=UomoAfide,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=YFjR6hP3,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2019-07-14T15:07:26.402+0000) > > Xerath is a hero > Seriously. The guy got rid of a corrupt regime that was using slavery and military power enacted by ascended human-animal hybrids to push other nations into submissions. Everything else he does can be excused because of that. > That's all i had to say, thank you. ....He didnt get rid of slavery though, and he actually practices it himself currently. More like he killed the guy who was about to get rid off it x) And given that the two of them had just about sized supreme power beforehand (meaning no real politicians aside from them) and Azir was kinda the good guy....there really isnt anything positive to say about Xerath.
: Morde is a...ok, no, that definitely won't fucking work. xD
> [{quoted}](name=ChaosReyn,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=YFjR6hP3,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2019-07-14T11:09:57.283+0000) > > Morde is a...ok, no, that definitely won't fucking work. xD He is saving all the lost souls ....in a sense :P
: > [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LKojLFpu,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2019-07-13T22:17:28.420+0000) > > More options did happen though, something like a Garen main reaching masters because he can adapt his builds&runes to deal with anything wouldnt have happened with the previous systems. > > > We have Ashe being able to use basically all the precision keystones or arcane comet if using a poke build. > > > Midlane mages being able to use at least 3 keystones, sometimes more. > > > I do not think its worth to forget that this system did a lot of good for many even if it also did cause a lot of problems like lack of options for many tanks, fighters and assassins. I would disagree with this assessment. He'd have managed it sooner, if not for the changes. (Incidentally, Masters is old news. riste was Challenger for ~2 weeks recently.) The previous Stormraiders Surge was way better for Garen than the current Phase Rush. Predator is unique, but given the choice, I think most Garen will still prefer the old keystones. In any event, you're offerring kind of a weird example. With the new system, Garen sufferred from being singularly unable to abuse any Rune. He can use almost all of the Keystones, but is generally played with one of like 3 or 4 of them. Perhaps he typifies the intention. But Garen is probably the only champion that plays like this, being rather generalized. He's the only non-Jungler that I am aware that normally takes Predator.
> [{quoted}](name=True Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LKojLFpu,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2019-07-14T18:04:39.292+0000) > > I would disagree with this assessment. He'd have managed it sooner, if not for the changes. (Incidentally, Masters is old news. riste was Challenger for ~2 weeks recently.) The previous Stormraiders Surge was way better for Garen than the current Phase Rush. Predator is unique, but given the choice, I think most Garen will still prefer the old keystones. And what most Garens want doesnt quite hold weight when Riste hit masters in the first place because he became able to adapt his builds because he had some many options to choose from.....sure having stormraider would make him better against some but he also would not have options against others, probably more so. > In any event, you're offerring kind of a weird example. With the new system, Garen sufferred from being singularly unable to abuse any Rune. He can use almost all of the Keystones, but is generally played with one of like 3 or 4 of them. Perhaps he typifies the intention. But Garen is probably the only champion that plays like this, being rather generalized. He's the only non-Jungler that I am aware that normally takes Predator. A keystone being "abused" is almost always bad though, like Kayle greatly accelerating her game with klepto thus breaking her power curve until she got nerfed a lot for it. I actually consider Riste´s situation to be pretty ideal, his Garen doesnt hard on "abuse" anything to the point of being balanced around it and being unable to use anything else but instead he is fairly good with a lot of options which makes him flexible and able to respond&deal with more than usual. Despite having a very simplistic champion kit to work with.
: change the knight synergy from flat damage reduction to % damage reduction
Knights are fine as they are, right now they are more of a early game strategy that is later combined either with glacials or rangers to give them a lategame. Vayne for a noble buff. Kindred for the phantom one. Ashe for glacials- Draven if you want imperial instead.
Kanzler (NA)
: I played TFT for the first time today, but there is a major issue with it...
Teamcomps do win you the game though, or at least lets you end highly ranked. Yesterday i played a round in which i got a terrible start, had terrible luck with rolls early, got almost no items and got slapped around silly to the point where i was dead last with a margin of 20 points despite wanting to not lose so badly. But i kept buying in units for a comp fitting for the very few items i had and i even managed to assemble it in quick order shortly after, which took me from being dead last with 13 health (everyone else had 40-80 at that point) to being number 2 while nr 1 only had 20 left......bugger beat me in the end though :( Having a strategy while being adaptive is what really lets you shine in games.......betting on dumb luck that you´ll get early gold stars+items isnt really a consistently winnable bet- Of course beating the guy with 3 items over you who also sits on like 6 gold units against your 1 is probably not gona be doable, but that guy wont always exist, or i wouldnt have a heap of games that i actually won^^
NY64 (NA)
: Which jungle meta is better?
Answer is simply that jungle has never really been in a state in which everyone was happy, its probably hopeless to ask for such a thing to happen as well,.....because different people often end up wanting different things. Some want to be able to blitz their opponents out early and keep things that way, others want the junglers to basically not fight eachother and just gank and there are even more others wanting other stuff. Dont bother and just go about your day freed from these small concerns knowing that there will always be people asking for or complaining about one thing or another x)
: Runes Reforged was a mistake.
> [{quoted}](name=Judah Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LKojLFpu,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-13T09:20:11.466+0000) > > Runes Reforged was a mistake. Not really, it accomplished it´s goal very well of creating diversity by adding options so everyone didnt just run the same things, there are many who have several options to choose from to adapt their gameplay as they might wish. That is something i believe is very positive. What isnt though, is that many of the runes were made with good intentions but poor vision/consideration of the future, examples of that would be Aftershock, Conqueror, kleptomancy and perhaps even dark harvest. Even so, a lot of bad does not mean a lot of good didnt happen, it simply means we got both. And i do prefer the present state of things overall compared when we had like......6-8 thunderlords and a pair of courage of the collosus users as well as potentially a pair of oddballs using either warlords bloodthirst or if malzahar/teemo, deathfire touch.
: The entire point of runes reforged was to give different gameplay options to players but in the end, it became an optimization game of which champions can abuse the stats more.
> [{quoted}](name=Silent Reaper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LKojLFpu,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-07-13T21:59:55.212+0000) > > The entire point of runes reforged was to give different gameplay options to players but in the end, it became an optimization game of which champions can abuse the stats more. More options did happen though, something like a Garen main reaching masters because he can adapt his builds&runes to deal with anything wouldnt have happened with the previous systems. We have Ashe being able to use basically all the precision keystones or arcane comet if using a poke build. Midlane mages being able to use at least 3 keystones, sometimes more. I do not think its worth to forget that this system did a lot of good for many even if it also did cause a lot of problems like lack of options for many tanks, fighters and assassins.
: I want all the Army personnel to wear alien outfits for that day and use non-lethal weapons that they've made to look like something you'd see in Starwars.
> [{quoted}](name=AeroWaffle,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=yo7Mael0,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-07-13T19:30:08.023+0000) > > I want all the Army personnel to wear alien outfits for that day and use non-lethal weapons that they've made to look like something you'd see in Starwars. "Weapons" ought to be shooting something that sticks and smells like hell if that´s the case ;P
Barkley (NA)
: I don't know what's wrong with lux. I have no science.
Her E isnt really different from Brand W or viktor E in terms of dodging difficulty, at some point you´ll get a sense for it and become able to bait and dodge it. Although admittedly if you are playing botlane you´re outa luck because she wont have to farm and can constantly go for optimal angle shots which she cant midlane, at least not so much. Her Q? To me this thing is really easy to dodge, at least compared to stuff like Thresh/blitz/pyke hooks, even Neeko Q. As for fitting into teamcomps....well yeah? Most traditional mages fit into basically any comp, Lux simply has a bit less consistent damage in exchange for that shield of hers. Orianna, Syndra, Ahri, Xerath,Malzahar,ziggs Anivia etc, you can stick these guys into any comp and its more likely to work than not....same as lux. The only thing different about her is indeed the shield and being such a combo onetrick, if you can dodge her shots, cleanse her CC or somehow nullify it all overall like say going invulnerable when she ults then she doesnt do anything aside from shielding her team....provided she can land that one too. And as for her ult, if you are even remotely decent at dodging stuff then she should almost never be able to land it without help or landing her Q first, its actually that easy to dodge it.....provided you have boots. As i see it, both Orianna and Syndra are just better overall than Lux, they have about the same effective range but more versatile kits, more consistent damage and they arent completely boned if 1 spell gets negated. Exception being that she has the small potential to land a 5 man ult or 5 man support shield at which point she helps her team more than Syndra does but for real, how often does this happen? .... The shield thing is actually often enough that Lux support with some builds is kinda OP late.
Lubeth (NA)
: Is Kled sleeper op or balanced?
Kled? OP? Nope. He is one of those champs that is rewarding to master and can do really well when you get good at him but that´s based on experience and skill rather than something like "i ran into your face and hit twice as hard so i win". He isnt basic like say Garen or Ashe either, there is some demand you know their kits (that´s not a lot though)but success is more macro based than micro in their cases. Kled needs more to work but also has more room for plays as a result, meanwhile its fairly easy to not screw up on basic ones but it´s also hard to make things happen or carry. I would know since i have basically been maining Ashe to the point where she is my second most played x) So all in all as i see it, if you got good enough on Kled to have an impact, succeed and win? That´s on you. But well with that said there are cases like say Malzahar who are also fairly basic but can initiate plays and carry if played well.....a toplane equivalent might be Jax or Cho'gath but Kled isnt like that either.
: one does something late game, the other does not
> [{quoted}](name=LF Ardent Whore,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XdYwwwTV,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-12T20:30:03.019+0000) > > one does something late game, the other does not Provided the one who doesnt is kept from snowballing hard enough to render the existence of this "lategame" null ;P' That said, Morde doesnt actually do that much late either in my experience thus far.
: if you dont get items off the first wave of minions you have a very low chance of doing well. If you don't get and items off the next batch of pve cant remember if krugs or wolves. You literally can't win.
> [{quoted}](name=ggigotfed,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=2GEnu7yE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-12T05:06:48.821+0000) > > if you dont get items off the first wave of minions you have a very low chance of doing well. If you don't get and items off the next batch of pve cant remember if krugs or wolves. You literally can't win. Not getting items of the first waves is kinda alright since you can opt to low key int for carosel priority which isnt bad either for some time, losing streaks also give extra gold ontop it not doing much damage in the early rounds. If you cant beat the wolves, raptors and krugs or dont get items from them while others do you´re kinda boned though.
: Let olaf have the revive maybe. According to the lore.
> [{quoted}](name=A LOVELY DOG,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kkgI55OL,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2019-07-11T14:38:30.873+0000) > > Let olaf have the revive maybe. According to the lore. Doesnt quite make sense, lore is that he just doesnt die. ..... Buff his lifesteal to like 100% when he drops to 5% health or something <.<
GigglesO (NA)
: Assassins are too tanky for their mobility + damage.
....Holy hells what is this bullshit? You´re asking for blue Kayn to be made so squishy that he´d at level 17, would die from the following together : 1. Ashe R&W =500-700 Damage. 2. Weak Zyra Q&E = .....Less than Ashe i think, about 300-400. 3. Sion Q&R = 600 damage. Maybe like 2 autos from Sion as well? 1 From Zyra? Even when he had 2,100 + health, got healed by nami and whatever else? So late into the game he likely had resistances too. ' Why dont you ask for the Ashe to die from the nami R+LB Q while you are at it?
: Its part of the issue of overall damage Just like CDR its part of the issue why Armour is a useless stat. The amount of extra attack speed the majority of people used to get at lvl 1 was Zero. Now its a delayed 28% 1% crit runes played a role but. You cant look at that and not see the dramatic change.
> [{quoted}](name=MalignMetal,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UwOkXPAQ,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-07-10T20:02:36.598+0000) > > Its part of the issue of overall damage > Just like CDR > its part of the issue why Armour is a useless stat. > > The amount of extra attack speed the majority of people used to get at lvl 1 was Zero. Now its a delayed 28% > > 1% crit runes played a role but. You cant look at that and not see the dramatic change. 0%? Just how far back are you actually looking? Back when we still had the rune page and mastery pages separated it was still extremely common to run attackspeed on both marksmen and several others like Jax/shyvana/xin zhao etc. If memory severs it was possible to start with as 30% bonus attackspeed instantly and very easily too, all you did was use 9 attackspeed marks and 3 attackspeed quints, although most only used about 20% attackspeed and some AD instead. But for some oddballs like Shyvana and Xin zhao it was actually viable to just drop everything into attackspeed, even use some glyph and seal slots for it and hit as much as 35% attackspeed. Right at the start of the game, and those who didnt do it usually ran AD instead which i might add, could be stacked to start a lot higher than now then too. Now you tell me, is starting with 13% such a big issue? Now to be honest, from my perspective it looks like you have a serious case of multilayered rose tinted glasses, and it aint fashionable at all.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: When most adcs don't build %armor penetration anymore, I think this is a synonym of an issue in the game right now tankiness has become garbage the only way to tank, is by building sterak (insane shield) death dance or similar items it's stupid
> [{quoted}](name=D357R0Y3R,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UwOkXPAQ,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-07-10T18:14:00.685+0000) > > When most adcs don't build %armor penetration anymore, I think this is a synonym of an issue in the game right now > > tankiness has become garbage > the only way to tank, is by building sterak (insane shield) death dance or similar items > > it's stupid Marksmen do build armor pen, when put up against someone who actually uses enough of it to warrant it by needing to die faster to not be a problem, but the issue here is that only tanks tend to actually make that happen. Other melee? Run HP/hybrid and straight damage items more often than not, by chance that they get armor then they wont have a lot of magic resist, or they get both but wont have much of either and end up dying quick to focus fire anyway. Which is intentional to differentiate them from tanks. Tanks who cant usually get through lanephase top so they arent played there, and jungle is a competition of who cheese´s the hardest so only a few work there as well. So armor ends up being low and scarce, why should marksmen bother with armor pen in this situation? And people dont get steraks because its better than armor, they get it because it gives you damage+health which is truly ideal for a damage based melee.
: Everyone overlooks how much extra attack speed Runes reforged added to the game. It needs a nerf frankly.
> [{quoted}](name=MalignMetal,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UwOkXPAQ,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-07-10T16:37:29.880+0000) > > Everyone overlooks how much extra attack speed Runes reforged added to the game. > It needs a nerf frankly. How much attackspeed? You have like 10% from the....small runes? Then 18% if from Precision legend :alacrity and possibly more from lethal tempo if you run that. So if not running lethal tempo you can start the game with an extra 13% attackspeed that later on grows to 28% once alacrity is stacked, a lot later. But you know? Riot removed attackspeed from some items like {{item:3046}} too, 15%. So overall how has attackspeed really risen to be a problem? #Edit It used to be possible to start the game with 20-30% extra attackspeed (matter of preference) instantly, even more if you used the usually sub optimal runes for it. Compared to 30% i dont see how starting the game with 13% is a problem at all. #End of edit
Nea104 (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=RenownedWheat42,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nmbV2k6L,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2019-07-10T14:50:23.112+0000) > > Anything to back this up, or are you just talking out of your ass cuz you're angry? 2 years of a pointless burst meta isn't enough for you? Nor what this whole thread is about? I cannot help you, then ;)
> [{quoted}](name=Nea104,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nmbV2k6L,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2019-07-10T15:28:46.188+0000) > > 2 years of a pointless burst meta isn't enough for you? Nor what this whole thread is about? > > I cannot help you, then ;) 2 years? Bruh there was always a "1hitKO" wonder stashed away somewhere ever since season 2, at the very least one of them that is. Some truly bullshit cases like release Xin zhao or AP Yi also existed, or Deathfire grasp if you prefer. But as for the "oneshot wonders" , usually there were more like 10+ and they were the ones played, nowadays we have a heap that can situationally do it but at least there are more options to keep things interesting. And damn lets not forget old Teemo doing like 60-80% of someone´s health with a single shroom. Only time people didnt either fall down or straight up explode and die after 1 hit was the first cinderhulk tank meta, ....well the marksmen died instantly by getting zerged by the tanks dogpiling on them but then those tanks stood there auto attacking eachother and basically regenerating more damage than they took. I´ve been around, and the only time i dont recall seeing bullshit oneshots happen was the cinderhulk meta, and even then it was only the tanks not getting oneshot. Because what squishy one fulltank malphite didnt kill in a single rotation+ult his buddy tank B definitely would kill. We´ve had damage for days for years, far more than 2 years.
: > [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=415vXRor,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-07-10T12:40:27.793+0000) > > Some people just have tilt threshholds levels below the bottom of the seas. > > > Was playing a game where the enemy had a midlane LB into our ....was it a Akali? She actually wins early and their toplane Zed smashes our kayle to pieces. > > But then the LB gets caught out multiple times and just gets wrecked instantly, at that point, despite her side having this like 15,3,8 Zed and having taken all our outer turrets+1 inhib she actually ragequits. > > She wasnt even doing so poorly at that time, just 4,7,1 or something, sure its bad but its not absolutely awful. > > > > So yeah.......some people just tilt almost ridiculously hard for no reason. I can get tilted myself soetimes but I still try to play the game. I never go afk or anything.
> [{quoted}](name=14daysuspensionk,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=415vXRor,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2019-07-10T13:17:57.893+0000) > > I can get tilted myself soetimes but I still try to play the game. I never go afk or anything. Mm that is the good way to go about it i think. I also have things that tilt me but i never flame or quit off it, its just not worth it x)
: I once tried playing support. Never play it though, after accidentally getting like 3 CS or less my fucking ADC just loses it. He straight up starts running it down mid...I'm not kidding, he fucking ints because of less than 5 CS.
> [{quoted}](name=14daysuspensionk,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=415vXRor,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-07-10T11:44:31.471+0000) > > I once tried playing support. Never play it though, after accidentally getting like 3 CS or less my fucking ADC just loses it. He straight up starts running it down mid...I'm not kidding, he fucking ints because of less than 5 CS. Some people just have tilt threshholds levels below the bottom of the seas. Was playing a game where the enemy had a midlane LB into our ....was it a Akali? She actually wins early and their toplane Zed smashes our kayle to pieces. But then the LB gets caught out multiple times and just gets wrecked instantly, at that point, despite her side having this like 15,3,8 Zed and having taken all our outer turrets+1 inhib she actually ragequits. She wasnt even doing so poorly at that time, just 4,7,1 or something, sure its bad but its not absolutely awful. So yeah.......some people just tilt almost ridiculously hard for no reason.
: > [{quoted}](name=Kazekiba,realm=NA,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=ml0ecgEK,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-07-09T21:17:33.247+0000) > > Azir supposedly had the HP scaling on his E shield missing since release. Took 3 years before anyone noticed since Rylais didnt provide a significant value on its own but if im pointing it out now they are bound to notice right?
> [{quoted}](name=Doctor Diana,realm=NA,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=ml0ecgEK,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2019-07-09T21:58:53.829+0000) > > but if im pointing it out now they are bound to notice right? Given how often Riot seems to visit the boards these days? One can hope, is probably what i´d answer x)
: Blitz breaking shields in 1.14
I think i´d be nice if they had this on his punch :(
: Why are tanks the only role without a high impact item?
Probably because tanks tend to have the highest and at the same time, easiest to use abilities.....mostly in terms of powerful teamfight ults. {{champion:32}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:113}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:20}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:3}}
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: >Why are you so obscenely stuck on armor pen when building it was just a consequence of your opponents getting armor? read what I said I just wrote what you wrote, armor pen is not built because armor is garbage, because tankiness is garbage and I want armor to be buffed
I never wrote that it was garbage, i wrote "not worth it". For many melee the issue is that they want Ad and whatever helps them get more durable so they dont explode from ambient damage, this means items with multiple stats like say {{item:3078}} {{item:3071}} {{item:3053}} {{item:3748}} or alternative options like {{item:3812}} are just great. They boost your damage and your durability, both at once, sometimes even your sustain and other stuff too. That´s something a {{item:3143}} doesnt, it just flat out reduces the effect a crit marksman has on you but doing so also means you hit the marksman&his team less hard because you didnt get that hybrid item, so building as much hybrid stuff as possible first is usually the best. But then there is the noteworthy fact that many melee do actually get some armor, although usually very late in their build, like Darius at his 4 to 6 item depending on boots type and need. Which you wont see because games frequently end at 2-3 items. Hells in your own post there were several matches in which the marksmen´s opponents had just barely finished their core builds and were looking into armor when they lost, i distinctly recall seeing both an Aatrox and a Olaf running ninja tabi+chain vest in their builds. Clearly both of them were just too behind to get the armor but they were actually getting it.
Yets4240 (NA)
: I have done the maths in every thread this has come up in, you are VASTLY overestimating how much armor is required. In fact, it s cost effective at 88 armor. that's it. 46% of all champions have more base armor than that. Literally every single champion with so much as a {{item:3047}} has ***MORE*** than that much armor. I can copy and paste the maths if you would like, or you can find an entire thread on it here: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/6Vrse1uE-the-maths-behind-armor-penetration-and-why-you-should-build-an-ldr-if-they-have-a-single-tank?comment=000000020000
Do tell me though, do you think a guy with 150 armor and ...say 2300 health can survive more than 2-3 seconds while under focused fire from more than 2 damage carries? Even if those do not have penetration?.......To be the answer as i see it is never yes. The goal is to wipe the enemy team and survive, kill that enemy tank 2-3 seconds faster is not worth it if it means you either die in the process or miss the chance to kill his team.
: "why are ADCs not building armor"
The guy who made that thread is just circlejerking hard as hell. "But marksmen not needing armor pen muh OP" He utterly refused to respond to multiple comments asking why one should get armor pen when the enemy side doesnt even have a proper tank building armor.'
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: I mean doesn't this just mean that armor is garbage and nobody builds it anymore? Except Zhonya, and IBG on ezreal (and ofc tabis) nobody builds armor **Hell this Challenger amumu went full AP?** bruiser in the past used to have 200 armor or more today they have over 3k hp with triforce/sterak/titanic, and nobody except tanks cares about armor in the past, (from season 2 to season 7 nearly) armor pen was CORE on adc, you couldn't build them without it to me, it just shows that there is a problem
Why are you so obscenely stuck on armor pen when building it was just a consequence of your opponents getting armor? Armor pen is useless if those who are supposed to use it are not played, and those are only a few tanks who scale of armor, for the rest its not worth it. 100 armor? 50%? Reduction? Yeah doesnt matter when 3-4 people are hitting the guy and he just dies instantly because he is a fake tank who lacks proper defensive steroids. Even if he is a tank it doesnt matter if the team has a melee like say Darius who is running black cleaver or maybe something like lee sin/aatrox doing it when the tank is behind. ..-.. So to put it simply, if marksmen were so stuck in their ways that they built armor pen even when there is a severe lack of armor in play then that would indicate a problem, a problem with the marksmen´s brains.
PB4UAME (NA)
: LDR is cost efficient against as little as 88 armor. Against a 100 armor target, its passive alone provides a 20% total damage amp, plus 45 raw AD. Against a 200 armor target, which a tank with ninja tabi and chain vest can easily approach, its over a 35% total damage amp. It's over 115%-130% efficient against a tank with base armor and a chainvest, if it's Braum, or Rammus (even without their steroids active) from their base armor and a chain vest it nearly reaches 145% gold efficiency. By the time you're up at 200+ armor, its the single most cost efficient damage item in the entire game, bar none. It's literally the most cost efficient and highest damage amplification you can purchase as an ADC hitting just the base armor of a tank or juggernaut after you have 1 zeal item and 1 IE. In simpler terms, if you want the most damage for your gold, as an ADC with so much as a bulky target in your game, you'll want an LDR as your third completed item.
And all this can be entirely ignored if the tank is 3 items and 3-4 levels behind, you can just go raw damage&healing and whatnot to shit harder on his team and it will actually help more. 100 armor? 200? A real tank needs at least 200+{{item:3193}}+aftershock to be relevant as a tank, otherwise the team can easily kill them together and move on, especially when someone on the team runs {{item:3071}} which many melee do. ....Actually my bad on the kai´sa comment come to think off it, Rageblade has penetration on it which i frequently forget.
abca98 (EUW)
: Let's not forget the extra smite.
Didnt they remove or reduce that somehow*?
: I mean Kalista, if buffed will INSTANTLY become the BEST pro play adc without a doubt. Her kiting ability is way too strong.
Not even sure its her kiting that makes the deal for If that was all then Vayne would be top tier, peerless. Instead i think its more question of kiting+ult+early game.
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Thefrostyviking

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