Kaisha (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=msEYflbc,comment-id=000500000001,timestamp=2019-03-25T08:30:47.845+0000) > > Nice hyperbole you got there but no, full on bullshit. > > There was a a real time in the LCS and soloq really, or two times actually, where teams legit consisted of 4 tanks and a marksman. > > 2 tanks built full on tank, 1 built with a bit of damage like {{item:3151}} or even {{item:3153}} and one more support like, that was the first true tank meta. So twice ever there were 4 tanky champs chosen. WHAT HORROR!! Twice... How many times have you seen entire teams without tanks? > The second was post the tank rework although it was more like tank+ardent censer support+marksman that benefitted the most from ardent censer and did well against tanks......Varus/kog pretty much.........however this was still 3 tanks, a possible tank support like taric/alistar and a anti tank marksman. > > > This here is a good example of what happens when a tank is strong. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xn5E-G81FY > > 38 auto attacks, it took like 5 to kill lucian. I love how you use this as an example. Where an underfed (2 kills) draven with his support takes down poppy (the tank) and the rest of the team. I mean he actually had to use good positioning, land his abilities, and even work with his teammate!!!!! Now compare that to any situation now where hypercarries can literally delete players in under 0.1s, and easily 1v5. And the tank meta was so terrible /facepalm. This community is as toxic as it is stupid. If for any reason you have to actually use teamwork, positioning or skill, and can't just right'click'n'delete you cry non stop. This game is not about strategy, tactics, or skill. Its about spoon feeding emotionally fragile kids fodder so they buy yet another skin for the latest FOTM carry to feed their delusions of grandeur.
> [{quoted}](name=Kaisha,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=msEYflbc,comment-id=0005000000010000,timestamp=2019-03-25T12:07:38.276+0000) > > So twice ever there were 4 tanky champs chosen. WHAT HORROR!! Twice... How many times have you seen entire teams without tanks? Difference is, when such champs with tank builds are popular then everyone are bored out of their minds aside from possibly the true mains of those champion, no one wants to watch a competition of which guy in full armor dies first from being hit with wet noodles, or rather takes enough damage to run away, recall, teleport back then rejoin the fight that hasnt even progressed in the meanwhile. > I love how you use this as an example. Where an underfed (2 kills) draven with his support takes down poppy (the tank) and the rest of the team. I mean he actually had to use good positioning, land his abilities, and even work with his teammate!!!!! Underfed Draven? He was 2,3,2 and had the old IE+phantom dancer against a poppy who had only built {{item:3068}} and it took him 38 autos to kill her, thats means that his autos did on average about 70 damage to her. ' He also had berserkers, a dorans and a longsword. A glass cannon damage carry spent about 7900 gold against a tank spending 2750 and he still basically did 70 damage per auto. You´re telling me this is reasonable in any sense of the word? > Now compare that to any situation now where hypercarries can literally delete players in under 0.1s, and easily 1v5. And the tank meta was so terrible /facepalm. That literally happened in the video too, lucian died in 3 hits from Draven, literally no difference from now. Fact is, tanks are strong, really damn ridiculously oppressive if you dont have true damage or a fullbuild against them or a insane gold lead, like Rammus or mundo could easily do what poppy did there even now,.,,,,,probably poppy too actually given that IE and phantom both got nerfed. > This community is as toxic as it is stupid. If for any reason you have to actually use teamwork, positioning or skill, and can't just right'click'n'delete you cry non stop. This game is not about strategy, tactics, or skill. Its about spoon feeding emotionally fragile kids fodder so they buy yet another skin for the latest FOTM carry to feed their delusions of grandeur. You are damn delusional ._. Why in the world should it be alright to spend 2750 could to just outright shutdown someone spending 7900? Does this make sense in any kind of way? Rather that kills skill way harder than anything else, poppy could make as many mistakes as she liked and just brainlessly charge without a care and you say stopping her from doing that would hurt the strategic/Skill elements of the game? Go have a long look in the mirror and realize you are biased as damn hell, stating that poppy should be allowed to do what she did as its somehow important for the sake of strategy is beyond contradictory.
: Hey guys, I don't know if I can hang out with you anymore.
Dont worry, i eat my chickens even cold if properly cooked first ;) I can even reheat it if needed{{champion:102}} .....or cook it in the first place.
Kaisha (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=msEYflbc,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-03-24T21:41:52.749+0000) > > It would result in another tank meta snoozefeast with stuff like a cho, a maokai, a malphite and a gragas standing ontop eachother doing nearly no damage and only really stunning eachother until their mana runs out. There was never a 'tank' meta. There was a short window of a few months where tanks weren't complete trash. All the assassins cried that they had to use combos/teamwork and couldn't 100-0 them on a whim, like what everyone else has to do to them. Couldn't have our poor assassins requiring skill, coordination, positioning, or teamwork so instead we now have everyone running around insta-delete'ing each other.
> [{quoted}](name=Kaisha,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=msEYflbc,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-03-24T23:26:56.815+0000) > > There was never a 'tank' meta. There was a short window of a few months where tanks weren't complete trash. All the assassins cried that they had to use combos/teamwork and couldn't 100-0 them on a whim, like what everyone else has to do to them. Couldn't have our poor assassins requiring skill, coordination, positioning, or teamwork so instead we now have everyone running around insta-delete'ing each other. Nice hyperbole you got there but no, full on bullshit. There was a a real time in the LCS and soloq really, or two times actually, where teams legit consisted of 4 tanks and a marksman. 2 tanks built full on tank, 1 built with a bit of damage like {{item:3151}} or even {{item:3153}} and one more support like, that was the first true tank meta. The second was post the tank rework although it was more like tank+ardent censer support+marksman that benefitted the most from ardent censer and did well against tanks......Varus/kog pretty much.........however this was still 3 tanks, a possible tank support like taric/alistar and a anti tank marksman. This here is a good example of what happens when a tank is strong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xn5E-G81FY 38 auto attacks, it took like 5 to kill lucian.
: If you are getting {{item:3085}} to spread the grevious wounds from {{item:3033}} . and it works why are you complaining about how its not effective for more damage on the rest of your kit when thats not what its being bought for while some champions have items that is acutally working against itself {{item:3075}} and even before its rework {{item:3110}} being the only armor items with enough armor and cdr to build anti synergising with thronmails passive. the only other choice for armor and cdr is {{item:3025}} with 60 armor and no other in combat stats and and {{item:3056}} that is kept laughably weak intentionally
The problem with {{item:3085}} is that you need a metric ton of range to make good use of it, even Ashe can barely use it and so how many others are actually qualified? Twitch, Varus, Cait, Kog and jinx, trist needs other crit items to get by her weaker early/midgame.......heck even Ashe sometimes has to go phantom first. Thats like, 5 outa 20 marksmen? And only 3 of them actually have a notable pickrate too. Although Kai´sa can situationally use it but she isnt really good with it, at least in my opinion. Then, i must admit i am not sure what the problem with {{item:3075}} is? The reduction of attackspeed combined with the thorns passive? But the idea is to reduce damage is it not? And a great deal of it of it comes from auto attacks when it comes to AD champs. So having your opponent lose attackspeed, take damage for actually attacking and having their healing reduced for attacking you with that item on seems like a pretty solid thing. And from what i heard {{item:3110}} is greatly disliked because it offers no health. The problem with gauntlet isnt that people cant use the stats, the problem is that too few can actually use the special Sheen effect well enough to justify getting it, like only Ezreal does for whatever reason.
LTK KoRo (EUW)
: Kai'sa range isn't bad for sure, and her kiting with e+r is too good, and her q is for sure too good in duels. Who cares if kai'sa got 100 range less than some other top-range adcs when she still have one instant reposition tool and stealth+speedboost. Also Kai'sa have mixed uncounterable damage, so uh, i'd say she's designed worse than draven for sure and my problem with sivir is that she's another statcheck without any relevant counterplay after she gets 3 items.
Kai´sa´s ult and E are still so much more healthy than say vayne, tristana, cait or Twitch, at least kai´sa goes near you at a few points while those stay miles away, and still do more damage than her against anything that isnt a full tank. Furthermore the mixed damage isnt really that high, with the current build you just need {{item:3194}} and a {{item:3143}} and she will instantly lose a lot of steam, i tried it on shyv and it worked great enough. She can be counterbuilt and she isnt extreme, a much better case than Draven who either works and is a monster or doesnt and ...doesnt exist. Now Sivir´s case is harder post 3-4 items, but i´d still argue that she is better than most still. First is the shorter range, and the lack of anything like Tristana´s Q or Vayne´s W means she can be counterbuilt and she wont dish out 7 autos in a second doing insane damage before anyone can react. Rather Sivir tends to run around with her ult and spellshield which means if you deal with those you can get her, and i must say i prefer her running around quickly infront of me over Twitch standing 3-4 times further away killing 3-5 members of my team at the same time. The real deal of Sivir isnt really burst or overwhelming damage, rather she goes for utility and AOE more than other stuff, her R allows her team to move quickly when needed and her Q+W are devestating in teamfights if the enemy team clusters or get gathered together by her team.
: You know what would be cool for tanks?
There is a problem here. If you buy 10 longswords you have effectively gained 100+ damage per auto before reductions, if you buy 100 armor you have gained 50% reduction against that damage. They work differently, so OP your request will just break resistances really badly, because it will quickly push say armor up to the point where it stops being good to buy more like at 300-400 and then for damage to be effective they will have to balance damage around that now much higher resistance. It would result in another tank meta snoozefeast with stuff like a cho, a maokai, a malphite and a gragas standing ontop eachother doing nearly no damage and only really stunning eachother until their mana runs out. And then there is the thing where tanks like Rammus, malphite and Seju can boost their resistances ridiculously high meaning that if they got access to some rabadon equivalent for resistances then they´d take negative damage from everything aside from true damage. Which would prompt a need for true damage to counter that. We dont want that.
: What do supports build to cut healing, because my team will never take those items.
I mean, which supports do you ask about? Role encompasses a lot of roles Mage supports get {{item:3165}} . Tanks get {{item:3075}} Not one of those? You are probably a heal/shield user yourself so you shouldnt really.
: Fighters are the ones who build {{item:3078}} and {{item:3071}} . fighters cant afford to lose the hp even the tiny amount that trinity gives for {{item:3033}} adcs need to build {{item:3033}} and {{item:3085}} and stop being so pussy in my experience where they run around the first 4 seconds of a fight auto attacking all of 2 times pretending to kite when no body is even after them because their front line wall is getting melted while they do nothing
Fighters can get {{item:3075}} just fine, and far from every marksman can actually use {{item:3085}} good enough for it to make sense getting it, rather only a very few can now. And which champs get both cleaver and trinity force? I thought conqueror+trinity was what everyone used.
Cheini (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Lyxx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R15ivKnj,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-03-24T17:27:36.647+0000) > > I have never flamed anyone for who they choose or question it, and that is so irrelevant to this... i meant that she is amazing at applying gr. wounds to everyone :p (runaan makes her attack the whole enemy team if in range, 600 range & slow)
.....You know the enemy team has to stand nearly ontop eachother for this to work, right? And that 600 range is really nothing for a ranged character at a time when teamfights start? Its only really significant in lane. Even cait for instance is only a major pain the ass because she has 650 range combined with her E+ traps which makes getting near her so hard.
SEKAI (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=9lxEQ7wx,comment-id=000000030000000100010000,timestamp=2019-03-24T17:01:44.158+0000) > > [snip] I find the kind of extent you go to excuse a proven misconduct cute, really. **After all, if we have to talk about "a lot of good evidence" we can already look at the deliberate 5 support ban and the later released voice chat that someone else has mentioned. The case is as cold as my turkey. **Unless ofc, you want to argue against the facts though the tactics of "everything I don't agree with is a shady conspiracy: the moon landing is faked, all the airline routines that can't be mapped nicely on a flat map means they actually don't exist, no one has actually ever traveled to the north and south poles, and everything is a lie created in service to trick everyone into thinking the earth is round as after all, the governments are always shady and planning nasty shit! Blah blah blah", which in that case my flat earther comparison rings true. Take a good look at your arguments and see just how similar it is to the general denial tactics of flat earthers. I always hate people shitting on flat earthers. Though not because flat earthers aren't wrong, but that most people so utterly fails to realise that they themselves are actually acting just like them in a few things they made a religion out of. If it isn't about the earth being flat, or vaccines causes autism, then it would be other nonsense about subjects like women, immigrants, gays, black people, muslims, jews, chinese, or whatever utter shit show we have today. On that basis, I absolutely despise most of the people who shit on flat earthers, because flat earthers are at least upfront and honest about their wrong belief, unlike them. ......... "what the heck was ROX even supposed to ban?" There are enough fotm champs in the roster that the ban can't possibly cover. This is even more true when you're facing a team you quite literally know nothing about since that's their very first game. And with a team you know nothing about, do you think it's strategically sound to restrict yourself in banning out just the support, and not only that, tossed bans even on supports that get literal 0 competitive presence too? What is the strategic significant of that? But answering that question is a fool's errand. Because there's none in the first place. The 5 support ban is a slap in the face, to ponder what it means in strategy is looking into the void of the abyss. All it came down to was that, RoX already decided, based on the fact the opposing team is made out of women, that they can take it easy and bm the enemy team by wasting their entire ban phase, even if they know nothing about them nor their capabilities. And RoX doesn't just do that because the opposing team was full of Diamond players. The match they'd played against just TWO DAYS prior to Vaevictis was against another Diamond, which **ROX LOST IN**. Yes, Rox LOST AGAINST A DIAMOND TEAM. So what was the rationale that they belittle someone on the basis of them being Diamond? Well, because rank was NOT the reason. That's why. And we even have chat to show for it now that Riot has disclosed because of """skeptics""" like you. But no, I guess we still have to defend RoX. Whatever happened to good evidences.
> [{quoted}](name=SEKAI,realm=OCE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=9lxEQ7wx,comment-id=0000000300000001000100000000,timestamp=2019-03-24T17:42:03.729+0000) > > I find the kind of extent you go to excuse a proven misconduct cute, really. Proven how? You literally argue in circles saying that ROX BM'ed Vaevictis with the 5 support ban but you literally shoot yourself in the foot here too. >"what the heck was ROX even supposed to ban?" There are enough fotm champs in the roster that the ban can't possibly cover. This is even more true when you're facing a team you quite literally know nothing about since that's their very first game. IF ROX didnt know who they were facing how could they have known to ban all the most played enemy champions from Vaevictis? Facts here suggest that the teams are told beforehand who they are playing against which lets them research them, and thats how ROX knew to ban the supports and that Vaevictis didnt play anything else enough to warrant bans. And the difference between me and the flat eartheners in this case is that they argue despite having evidence against them, meanwhile i argue because there is evidence that Riot has indeed acted really damn shady as hell before, doing so again would be nothing new. You trying to tell me that i am doing the same as them while ignoring this is the same thing you´re accusing me off! I have evidence to support that my claim isnt unreasonable, you meanwhile argue that based on nothing but your own personal opinion and the given word of a company with near 0 credibility when it comes to being honest and upfront......which of us is the really unreasonable one here? And you even ignore the holes in your own logic.' Furthermore i am not dissing diamonds in general, i specifically wrote "Diamond support mains", which is yet another thing you happily ignore, and we have nothing from riot, only a vague statement from Riot Jinx stating that they found ROX to have disrespected Vaevictis in their teamspeak, nothing else......hells the members of ROX didnt even say anything to Vaevictis directly. Arguing with you constantly ignoring just about ever other thing i write while also skipping past holes in your own logic is nothing short of endlessly frustrating, i will cease to respond least i type something i regret later.
LTK KoRo (EUW)
: that's for sure better than any other adcs. lets remember that: {{champion:110}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:222}} {{champion:96}} {{champion:145}} {{champion:18}} {{champion:15}} etc. are pure statchecks without any relevant counterplay. Draven can bully people, but counterplay to him is really clear and satisfying for both parties. Find me any other adc with counterplay other than "burst them" and "stay outside of their range"
I honestly vastly prefer a middle ground to exist and as such i absolutely despise Draven, and i dislike the stat checkiness of the rest a lot as well, especially Jinx, kog, twitch, trist and Varus. Although i dont know why you are on kai´sa and Sivirs cases, they are among the absolute best marksmen in terms of counterplay. Kai´sa while possessing that ultimate and stealth still operates basically in near melee range, even a renekton can reach her with 1 dash, and she needs to land abilities in the early to midgame to do her damage properly, its really good counterplay as far as marksmen are concerned. Sivir also work at a shorter range, is highly reliant on her Q up until like 4 items and good spellshield usage is a thing on her as well, makes her much better than say tristana who despite being supposed to be weak can still cheese fights at 6 and start a snowball scaling into a lategame monster in the midgame,,,,,much like Vayne.
Kei143 (NA)
: Yea. That's what we all want to find out. People have asked for the voice comms to be released, and I don't think Riot (which ever region) would ever do that. I think this [GM] Jinx and the way she speaks of using "sorry for the delayed response, we were overwhelmed by work" is the same as the one whom handled Cowsep's bans? Last time I saw that type of response, gave me the impression that they are just here to put out a poorly thought out PR explaination and the move on with it. This gives me the same vibes. It would have been much more widely accepted if they came out with that reason of discrimination in the first place.
I dont think those will ever be released either which honestly just adds confusion to the matter, but i also wouldnt be surprised if ROX guys did indeed say something like "LOL team of support mains think they are good enough to play in the LCS, this will be easy" or something. However if that was the problem why use a bullshit excuse like "5 support bans against a team of support mains with 12 champs between all 5 is disrespectful!" if they had a legit reason? It smells like shit to the high heavens.
SEKAI (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=9lxEQ7wx,comment-id=0000000300000001,timestamp=2019-03-24T14:17:36.445+0000) > > Somehow the large difference in dates between "ROX disrespected Vaevictis by banning 5 supports" and "ROX disrespected Vaevictis in their teamchat and used their bans as a means to BM" is really suspicious. > > > > I somehow find myself doubting exactly how truthful Riot is about this matter, they have conveniently forgotten to mention important things before. > > And i also wonder what exactly qualifies as a insult......i wouldnt be surprised if ROX called Vaevictis a heap of low diamond support mains thrown together......... for the sake of some idea of equality that almost ignores the need for merit if putting it mildly. Obviously, voice chat is not something that is just released for public at demand. It is only thrown out because apparently the blatant act of 5 support ban somehow isn't enough for the denie- I mean, """skeptics""". And so they threw out the voice chat as a checkmate. But ofc, with how the """skeptics""" is going, they just deny it yet again with whatever "suspicion" they can grasp almost at random. I'm sure you notice this, but the way you're functioning right now is exactly the same as anti-vaxxers, flat-earthers, 911 conspiracy theorists, and all the of the nutjobs that are around. In that they routinely deny blatant evidences on the basis it isn't 2000% clear even babies could follow along; and when actually given such evidences is actually provided, they shift their tactics to sweeping denial based on superficial arguments like "it's fishy". ...... "for the sake of some idea of equality that almost ignores the need for merit if putting it mildly." That is because the world doesn't function on meritocracy. That's why discrimination is even a thing in the first place. To reverse a problem you would have to have a counter-force. Pretending a problem doesn't exist does't solve it, it only enables it to become worse. If a problem comes into existence even in a vacuum, then playing nice with it will NEVER solve it. When valuing and devaluing others on the basis of non-merit has been a cultural staple for over centuries, why the hell should we care about merit when we're solving that problem, especially when the idea of "merit" has already long been distorted through centuries of warping? To bring it back to the topic: RoX's BM is unquestionably, among the biggest one ever in League's professional scene. And it obviously get into trouble as merit would obviously dictate. The fact some people, take it up to themselves to excuse such blatant level of misconduct, should be all the evidences you need in the legitimacy of the idea of "merit" these guys believe in.
Problem with your argument of skeptics and my behavior here is that there is a lot of good evidence to prove say the flat earth club wrong, as well as the others, but there is no evidence that Riot wouldnt act in a really damn shady manner to cover themselves up, rather there is evidence that they would infact do so instead. I could seriously see them taking a few offhand comments from ROX about Vaevictis being ridiculous for even entering the LCS and turning it into a scandal to cover up at least a little for how terribly shameful even admitting Vaevictis was. Like when they locked the men out of a part from a paid event without no prior notice for the sake of equality even after promising to stop all sexism in the company following a scandal.......and tried covering it up with "but we did mean things to them so now we have to do slightly mean stuff to the guys too". Rather than merit i should probably have used the word qualification, my bad English is not my main language. And your entire argument about ROX and their supposed BM boils down to " they banned 5 supports even though doing so utterly silly and wasted bans which is clearly BM", but the problem with this is that it ignores that those ladies from Vaevictis werent known to play anything else from supports, what the heck was ROX even supposed to ban? OP picks? Those are useless if the enemy side doesnt even play them, rather its better to just pick those themselves, and even if Vaevictis actually picked some they wouldnt have the skills needed to pressure ROX with them. Less used champs? Why bother, most those less used were likely supports anyway. ' So from where i sit it basically boils down to having like 12 options of champs to ban, all are the supports Vaevictis members were known to play, there was nothing else to ban and so ROX did so right away, probably laughing at how ridiculous such a situation even was. And its only at that point i can imagine that insults had gone through, cocky and confident guys chatting with friends wouldnt really have any bars about doing it then, however calling the action of banning those supports disrespectful in itself is just stupid, like what could they have banned? Random champs? Their own champs? No champs at all? Why in the world would they not ban the only champs they knew the enemy team was going to pick?How is it not reasonable to do so?
SEKAI (OCE)
: There are only a handful of League's support roster that is even viable in tournaments, and most support champs are strongly tied with their bot pick, too. This means that banning either bot and support isn't just banning a bot or support champ, every ban directed at bot whether bot or support, means banning out an entire bot lane combo. Banning also have to consider fotm champs and counterpicks, etc too. We're not gonna just gonna ignore that, and obviously any pro teams wouldn't, either. Due to the numerous considerations and attempt at balancing the priorities, it is extremely rare that any match would ban over 2 supports, let alone 5 in a row. No matter how much you want to """target ban""" an opposing team made out of 5 support players, banning 5 supports is clearly an extreme UN-strategic overkill and wasting at least 3-4 bans on purpose. There is only 1 reason why you would waste your ban to sneer at your opponent in a professional game, and that is obviously to insult them. There is no way around it. They even cast 2 bans on Nami and Janna, the 2 of which who had only 8% and 2% presence respectively in the LCL Spring 2019 that the match took place. And Janna's entire 2% presence is entirely from being banned once (she was not picked at all, and only banned once); gee I wonder who banned Janna? It is as clear of a BM as it can get.
> [{quoted}](name=SEKAI,realm=OCE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=9lxEQ7wx,comment-id=000300010001,timestamp=2019-03-24T15:32:21.376+0000) > > There are only a handful of League's support roster that is even viable in tournaments, and most support champs are strongly tied with their bot pick, too. This means that banning either bot and support isn't just banning a bot or support champ, every ban directed at bot whether bot or support, means banning out an entire bot lane combo. And so what? Doesnt matter if a champ is strong if no one can use that champ, which from ROX´s perspective is what Vaevictis was, incapable of using anything aside from supports. Which was even proven with how hard they got destroyed by that other team. And you can easily field at least 3 supports in a game, midlane, botlane and even some toplane like karma, who was one of the bans if i recall? It doesnt matter if a champ is popular or not, what matters is, is the enemy side good with that champ and capable of producing result and will banning the champ have any impact? Answer was yes to all 3 of those, So the question becomes, is it unreasonable to ban 5 out of what, ~15 of the only champs the enemy team is known to play because all those champs are supports? Now in my opinion, it is not, rather its perfectly reasonable and saying it was disrespectful is beyond ridiculous. But there is still a possibility that they were truly insulting in the voicechat which cant be confirmed by us thus i cant say if the warning was overall undeserved or not.
: The most well designed champion of each class.
I disagree on many of these! First up, marksmen as a class are not balanced or healthy, this because their main way of dealing damage comes from rightclicking their enemies to death which doesnt really have any meaningful counterplay and success is determined by stats more than anything, which is made worse by many of them having high range. The most healthy marksmen are those who are ability reliant or need to get into short range to get their real damage out, like Lucian, kai´sa and Jhin, arguably MF too. Then for mages, mages often have the problem of having high range, high base damage(or the ability to spam cast) and reliable CC ontop, this makes them very tyrannical quite often against many, particularly melee or shorter ranged marksmen. Then for tanks, the problem with Ornn are twofold, first is that he has a ton of max health damage built into his kit which makes him absolutely run over people he really should not quite often when not nerfed to the ground, second is that his ult is fast, its huge and it has massive impact. This means that slower champions are completely brutalized by him and have no way to deal with him, i´d instead say that Leona and Amumu are healthier as they have clear cut counter play available to everyone even if limited. Forthly, assassins, kha6 is a terrible example, the reason being is that he deals too much of his damage while invisible which inherently lacks counterplay and he even roams a significant portion of the map while also invisible which invalidates the ability to react to his movement so you just end up having him randomly appear next to you and deal massive amounts of damage very quickly with no chance to stop him. In this regard eve and akali are better designed, Eve with her reliance on her W and R and akali with the need to hit her target multiple times unless fed. Enchanters as a class are shit, they are literally just statboosters who have very little skill expression in the end, sure you can poke well on some of them but in the end someone sitting back and chilling while being around and someone poking a bit will end up about the same in a teamfight, spamming abilities on a short cooldown while staying in the far back while not actually letting the enemy team interact with them much at all. Finally for the fighters, to be honest i am not sure any of them could be considered "the best" because all of them are extreme in some way, Jarvan for instance frequently rolls high AD builds where he just uses E-Q-R-AA-tiamat-AA to quickly get on his opponents and just blow them sky high in a heartbeat. Offering very little opportunity to stop him as his E-Q-R cant be cancelled. To be honest i´d probably rate Yorick higher, he needs his E,R and W a lot which gives more to react to and play around, although he isnt exactly problem free either given how often he becomes top tier OP by minor changes.
LTK KoRo (EUW)
: the most healthy ADC is {{champion:119}} just due to amount of sheer counterplay which his axes have. No other adc is close to him when it comes to relevant counterplay
Problem with Draven is, when enemy cant punish him for his axes then he is literally impossible to beat unless you bring out some significantly large bullshit to stop him, if they do have the means though then he is utterly useless and he might as well not be there at all.
Monlyth (NA)
: Can we talk about turret plating?
Snowballing will never stop as long as someone beating their opponent heavily happens, and platings actually help the towers stay alive for longer. No but the idea was split into parts. Reward lanebullies, punish roaming, reward heavy pushing and give incentive for it, this to encourage early action but also keep said action in the lanes between the first two turrets for as long as possible. If you still lose the first tower early then you goofed off really badly.
SEKAI (OCE)
: People and their tendency to omit or alter context whenever it's not favourable. The problem isn't banning 5 support champion, the problem is that it is a blatant form of BM'ing the opponent team so ofc they get disciplinary action. Even if we all play the card of "but they're all supp mains in solo queue on their spare time" it still wouldn't change a single fact that 5 support characters, or in fact any team comp with more than 1, will NEVER work in the pro scene and thus it makes 0 strategic sense to ban 5 support champions in a row given it's a gigantic waste of ban slots to go higher than 1 or 2 at the very most. And the only reason why ANY team would so blatantly waste their ban phase is obviously to BM the opponent team. Ofc they got shat on by Riot after that for compromising sportsmanship. This case is as clear cut as any, even the blind can see it clear as day. ....... Secondly, the bit with benchmark being as low as Diamond is probably just there to attract player interest towards the pro scene. Even if everyone knows you have to be at least Challenger to have any real chance at going pro, they keep the bottom benchmark at Diamond to not appear as elitist. I mean, obviously a game dev can't just go and say that "only the top 0.001% are worthy for going pro, the rest of you are scrubs who don't deserve any try" or something like that, now can they? Also, it is also most likely a relic of time, of the time when the highest league WAS DIAMOND, that has just failed to be updated (which if true, they really should update it now. Because we also have 1 new league, Grandmaster, in the mix today, so Diamond is probably a bit too low for pro scene at this stage). That could also be an explanation for that.
Problem here is that Vaevictis is a team off 5 support mains. Each of them had those 5 banned as some of their most played if not their very most played, so by banning 5 supports they easily knock out all the enemy team´s comfort picks and give themselves a HUGE advantage. Banning 5 supports against anyone else? Wouldnt really do anything because there is no other team made up of 5 support mains. Was is disrespectful? To target a really ridiculous weakness that only existed because they are all support mains and have a really small pool of champions they know how to play well enough? Even if there were OP picks at the time ROX would either pick them themselves or ignore them as they most likely felt that Vaevictis lacked the ability to use those OP picks well enough to threaten ROX. So sure, ROX went and did the next best thing which is to ban champs the enemy team is known to play, which really is just like....10 support champs or something, given that they were 5 support mains, and sure one could call this mean as it forced Vaevictis to play champs they werent equally practiced with. But its ridiculous, truly damn ridiculous. Its like a guy with a lame leg somehow being somehow allowed to compete against the real masters of short distance sprint like say Usain bolt, who should be more offended, the lame man by Usain doing his best or Usain by having someone send the lame guy to legitimately compete with him and the others? Now i dont actually know if ROX truly said some really disrespectful things or if they just mildly dissed Vaevictis for being unqualified (which was quite proven when Vaevictis got spawncamped by another team going >10 kills against 50 something) or such, but i do know that the problem was definitely not a matter of disrespect if banning 5 supports was considered an offense. Like seriously, if a team of guys made up of i dunno, diver/skirmisher mains appear on the pro scene and they have like 8 out of 12 champs in common between them isnt it natural to ban out the strongest and more important of those? How is it disrespectful?
Kei143 (NA)
: https://www.invenglobal.com/articles/7746/the-real-reason-for-disciplinary-action-towards-rox-against-vaevictis-in-the-lcl
Somehow the large difference in dates between "ROX disrespected Vaevictis by banning 5 supports" and "ROX disrespected Vaevictis in their teamchat and used their bans as a means to BM" is really suspicious. I somehow find myself doubting exactly how truthful Riot is about this matter, they have conveniently forgotten to mention important things before. And i also wonder what exactly qualifies as a insult......i wouldnt be surprised if ROX called Vaevictis a heap of low diamond support mains thrown together......... for the sake of some idea of equality that almost ignores the need for merit if putting it mildly.
: give me the infro from RIOT GAMES WEBSITE
Dude you´re asking for the impossible, Riot doesnt ever publish stuff that seems unflattering about their star players or themselves. Nothing, ever.
Kei143 (NA)
: You know that they were punished for using sexual slurs in their voice comms?
: I'm not saying, for sure, that there is a forced 50% win-rate, but I am saying it's very suspect and fair to think so given Riot doesn't release anything useful about their matchmaking. They give people really vague statements and do things like 'adjust' it in Korea for no known reason, which makes them look shadier. If you combine a lack of trust with their inherent... untrustworthiness, I guess, it can easily look -- and feel -- like they're matching people with an algorithm similar to what EA's patented matchmaker, meant more to wring money out of people. I guarantee, by the way, these people I'm fighting are not on my level. Silver 5 or 4 I could buy, because anytime I'm taken there I notice people do about as well as I do... but Bronze 3 is just a dumpster-fire of awful choices that people make and that I warn them _not_ to.
I mean why would they release anything about the matchmaking? The fact that there are people who climb, even hit plati in like 13-20 games and diamond in 50, is proof enough that the system is very much in working order, anything else is just people not doing things properly and blaming everything else aside from themselves. And why would riot try to tamper with the matchmaking? Their revenue comes from people liking the game and buying skins for the characters they like, if people get frustated, tilt and quit then its a losing deal for them. There is no real pay to win advantage that one can only get with cash, except arguably some skins having less clear visuals or something i suppose but those often get fixed when pointed out. Now then for your argument about people on your level and whatnot. I just checked your history, and boy there are more things that i want to comment on than i actually care to but i will on some. First up, playing high skillcap champs like Irelia, kayle, neeko and others while you have the mechanical skills of a bronize is just asking to lose, you dont have the skills or judgement to operate these champs unless you invest a shitton of time into them exclusively. Then, weird as hell builds and picks. Like......AP shaco with arcane comet support, kayle support, Swain support with aftershock into tank. You did win games on some of these, problem is, they have no potential outside bronze, even if you main these and succeed you will just end up meeting people who know how to actually deal with them and then you´ll be stonewalled, utterly unable to progress or even impact your games, you definitely want to drop these picks ASAP. That goes for the fulltank aftershock support Aatrox as well, and the Ornn support, and the Ahri support. All these will just end up useless because their limitations will make them unable to work once you meet opponents who know what they are doing. Then for builds, an example would be your Syndra game in which you got {{item:3003}} {{item:3030}} and {{item:3802}} ......you should only have a single item that builds from {{item:3802}} and yet you were on your merry way to 3? That is just crippling yourself,too much wasted gold and lost power. Good sir, my greatest advice to you is that before you start pointing fingers or sympathizing with others about the possibility of Riot having sabotaged matchmaking i highly suggest you seriously look over your picks, your builds and probably your gameplay as well. There are many sites offering advice and info that would help you, a simple and easily usable one is [OP.GG](https://na.op.gg/), it shows just which champs are being played where, their win&pickrates AND their core items as well as most built items and most used runes. For a more detailed and complicated site you can look at [Lolalytics](https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/home/), this site is highly accurate and offers both a broader and more in depth look into various info about any champion you´d like to look at, builds, runes, winrate&pickrate statistics for every commonly built item and even the winrate&pickrate for each item built in which order. As for gameplay, easiest way would probably be to go look at a streamer, other way is to self reflect by looking at your own replays (downloaded&played) from the client match history.
: I think when all is said and done, discipline is the most important factor in climbing. The discipline to not play ranked games when tilted, the discipline to stick to what you're good at for all ranked games. Despite a tendency to hardcore one trick a champion, I still enjoying playing a lot of different champions and never realized just how much even a few games on off roles and such can hinder a climb. This was my main problem all along. I didn't have to discipline to play only the champions I had a positive win rate on. And I tended to play a lot of ranked games tilted. I understand now why a lot of people, especially in higher elos have multiple accounts. Climbing really is about consistency when all is said and done. All your inconsistent behaviors can be pawned off on an alt account while all the "try hard" games can be played on your main or vice versa in my case.
Discipline is indeed a good thing, and avoiding to play while tilted is also a very reasonable thing to do,,,,,,,or you can goof off entirely like me, be completely undecided about which champs you like and basically end up with ~15 mastery 7 picks and use different ones to climb each season. While also frequently and stubbornly attempting to play that one role that is best played in a duo while solo and not even very good at it. Sometimes i start thinking about how i have done things thus far.....and i immediately stop, not thinking or looking back lets people be happier sometimes^^
: Anyone else had a bug where you survive a fight then seemingly die to nothing?
No visible dot effects or something hitting nearby like a luden?
: > [{quoted}](name=Lord Apex,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=doAjx70b,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-03-23T15:58:10.684+0000) > > {{champion:67}} {{item:3153}} vayne is a scaling champ, rewarded for playing safe til the late game {{item:3153}} vayne has reached late game gg
> [{quoted}](name=OrangeMarine,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=doAjx70b,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2019-03-23T17:19:14.107+0000) > > vayne is a scaling champ, rewarded for playing safe til the late game > {{item:3153}} > vayne has reached late game gg TBH she needs rageblade to be the real terror. With just blade she is scary but not anywhere near as bad as in rageblade levels.
: They should buff Lethality tbh
> [{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=doAjx70b,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-03-23T16:02:47.564+0000) > > They should buff Lethality tbh Wont that just break Zed, talon and MF right away, again?
: How are the forced-feeling wins and forced-feeling losses supposed to make the game better?
Forced winrate is a absolute bullshit rumor. When you win you gain mmr, visibly in ranked in the form of LP but you also gain a hidden one when winning in in normal que. The higher up you go on the MMR ladder that is divided into sections the better your opponents will be, because they and you will need to win to go up there. Now the reason that bullshit rumor exists is because some people raise their MMR and get to meet opponents above their own actual skill level, perhaps these guys got lucky and won a heap of games in a row or they just won a lot more than they lost and thus slowly climbed a little too far on accident. They then meet the mentioned opponents who are at that level for real, and most likely get pretty beaten down, maybe they still remain above their level still so they lose 1-2 more games before getting unlucky or just being too tilted and losing 2 more games against guys that actually were fair game, which ends up downing their winrate from 60-70% down to 50% or so. They then call this the "forced winrate" bar enforced by Riot. Like if you have the actual skill then wont ever encounter a situation where you have less than 60-70% winrate before reaching challenger, i myself am around plati level of skill (Greatly inconsistent) so i skip silver, maintain a fairly high wirnate in gold and .....well i never actually played further after reaching plati due to time constraints but my normal MMR usually sits around plati 2 so my winrate as expected tanks once i get into plati levels of play. That and when playing ADC,,,,,,,i am not a great ADC despite trying my best Q_Q
: Why is my name censored?
Pretty sure language unique characters dont exist unless they have their own server with the language added and even so rarely outside that server, i am pretty sure that if someone tries to write a name using chinese/korean symbol characters then the name will just appear like a row of blank boxes in game unless playing on their servers. At least it was so for a really long time, and even if it got fixed by riot adding them in to all the serves i doubt Swedish got the same treatment :P
: Finally got Gold after 2 years of trying.
,.......I mean isnt it quite simple really? O_O Generally you just want to pick a few champs and get comfortable with them, then you can happily go play ranked and as long as your skill with those champs and macro is up to par you´ll likely find a posetive winrate which will see you climbing, even if possibly slowly. Bonus points if you have champs you like for at least 2 lanes+ emergency supports(autofill has no chill) or even main support as your off role. There never really was any big secret to it, at least that is how i saw it O_O I mean sure you can go for OP picks or use some cheese strategy but the desired end result is just to get a posetive winrate which to be honest is easier to do if you simply improve your gameplay sufficiently which in turn is easier to do by playing properly. ........With all that said though, congrats^^
: So... I guess if you search for League of legends on google right now...
Are we talking that anti riot suit? I could see why Riot would not approve...... c.
: What was the design concept behind Kayle's anti-tank stats
Not like she only deals true damage so its like getting a fancy hat and monocle, both fit on your head and make you look fabulous if you have a appropriate garb to go along with it^^
: There's bound to be a bug in there somewhere. The winrate of a champion with Lucian's popularity does not fluctuate that much in a single patch. At least not if said patch does not contain direct changes or major indirect changes - and 9.6's Xayah/Cait/Brawler's/Dematerialiser changes do not seem impactful enough for a 3% winrate shift (again, on a very popular champion).
Is probably that the meta is shiting and everyone´s an expert at dealing with him now......having dealt with him just about each and every game for quite some time. The crit changes that helped the weaker marksmen back up certainly made it harder for him as well, jinx and sivir didnt really take off hard until those came along for instance, and the AD build kai´sa now runs packs a heap of burst&good early which messes with lucian as well.
: "M'lord, what about the holy arrows and the holy hand grenade?" "Bring those, in case the need arises. Heresy will be punished by sword, or bow, or grenade."
>The holy hand grenade. [The holy hand grenade of Antioch](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOrgLj9lOwk) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNTzOBKs1bA https://imgur.com/gallery/wd7PA
: > [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=AU99TPso,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-03-22T09:34:19.849+0000) > > A way to stop the vocal praying.......hardcounter to those who need to chant their psalms for anything to happen? I'd suggest caution in your next choice of words. What you're saying borders on ***heresy of the vilest sort.***
....... They´re great for shutting heretics up permanently and swiftly with a righteous headshot?As well as cleansing evil beings in a similar manner or with a few more rounds if needed. A truly solid method that has been approved by the Witchunters, both the 40k ones and the ordinary ones!
: What is a gun compared to FAITH?
A way to stop the vocal praying.......hardcounter to those who need to chant their psalms for anything to happen?
Wyrin (NA)
: Who are your level 7 Mastery Champions?
{{champion:103}} {{champion:22}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:21}} {{champion:102}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:134}} {{champion:37}} {{champion:99}} {{champion:18}} {{champion:51}} {{champion:127}} {{champion:10}} The current list^^ Have a few others i am getting to as well.
DanaoIxUv (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2ljp99kL,comment-id=0009000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-21T09:30:23.327+0000) > > Its not a matter of skill at all, the problem is, is it possible to do so at all? In many matchups the answer is no meaning Draven can often largely be entirely useless, a fullblown troll pick. You mean cc supports or what? Those are counterpicks, they have existed since forever. > Its you who fail to understand. > > The problem with Draven is that if his opponents are competent and have the tools then he is straight shit, utter damn shit. > > But if they dont? He is more oppressive than season 3 teemo/renekton in lane. If the player playing against Draven is crap he doesn't deserve to win? You don't balance around incompetent players. If Draven is crap and can't juggle axes he doesn't deserve to win either. It's how this game works. You're acting like Draven is unplayable in high elo or something. > Charging in stealth just removes the counterplay given that her stealth lasts 1 second. > > And a marksman cant afford such a charging time when the primary opponents consist of instant damage dealers, standing still even for a second is suicidal. It would be the same as now. You just would know that when Vayne goes invis and doesnt AA you that she is propably charging. She wouldn't be standing still, you can charge stuff while walking too you know. > niche pick thus left alone. 25% pickrate really nice niche pick. Good thing tanks are in the meta so it justifies her 25% pickrate... oh wait... Imagine Rammus being picked 25% of the time into an AP heavy meta. That is your definition of a niche pick right there? > because he doesnt actually have any counterplay right? Yeah I'm sure that was the entire reason, also I don't give a rats ass about pro-play. He has enough counterplay, his entire kit resolves around 1 skillshot, just like I proposed with Vayne so if Blitz is too op resolving around a skillshot that can't go through minions then after your logic Vayne wouldn't have any problems too right? > How exactly? If i try to fight him when he backs up to his minions i´ll just take too much damage from them and lose the trade anyway, but if he stacks fury he can walk into mine, hit me with a crit, E back and he does more than he takes. > > Fair trading pattern 101, which on the other hand is much like renektons style of E-W-Q-E back but at least he doesnt scale hard. Maybe you know.... when his fury is down don't let it stack up again or if he walks towards you, which is something you can see a mile away, prep for the trade and force an extended one? At the same time why is Tryn doing short trades with 100 fury. You are acting like you're playing Mordekaiser, champs have tools to retaliate you know? And he doesn't have a stun to keep you away from retaliating like Renekton has. > With 700 AP and a 7 sphere ult she does 2100 with her ult, even if reduced by say 30% thats still just short of 1600 damage, not counting her other abilities at all or keystone. In what universe will a splitpusher let you stack up 4 spheres before engaging on you. Still doesn't matter because Steraks will eat most of the ult damage. > Most Tryns never even try to teamfight which most mages do so they dont have to bother, but nice of you to notice. Yes nice of me to notice that Tryn is so easily kiteable that he doesn't even bother with teamfighting And the pickrate of QSS on Tryn is still nowhere to be seen. > I have, any my conclusion is that as long as the enemy team cant beat you 1v1 then you are basically overpowered. Splitpushers aren't meant to be 1v1'd other than by other splitpushers. How stupid would it be if you can send any bob to a splitpusher and stop him that would make them totally useless. Their strength lies in the fact that they can attract more than 1 guy to them so their team can take objectives. It's their entire purpose of existing. In return they are dogshit in treamfights. > And how exactly do you kite someone walking up with a 100% certain crit to auto you as you farm? Give up CS? Do that enough and he wins lane anyway. > > And yes there is a way to easily give yourself 100% crit chance as long as you have like 20% of it, and trynd with full fury has 30% which makes it really easy to do on him. Make up your mind are you talking about laning phase or outside of it. In laning phase you don't need to kite him at all unless you are a ranged top. Melees can just fight him. Not everything has to run away if he dashes into a Trundle he will get his arse split in 2. Also Tryn doesn't get crit chance in lane, the new build at least doesn't. So he is stuck with 35% for a while. > Almost like Tryndamere has to be useless in teamfights Yorick is also useless in Teamfights, is he also toxic? > Later on when he literally kills anyone squishy in 2-3 hits how is my statement not correct? A) He is a late game monster, if he can't kill squishies in 2-3 hits by then he is just a worse Vayne in about every aspect imaginable. B) Squishies shouldn't be getting into melee range with him in the first place, especially if he already got stunned. > You arent supposed to do anything like teamfighting when Tryndamere, heck you arent even supposed to leave the sidelanes, Tryndamee is literally one of the first champs made and his design is just as toxic and skewed as Vayne. > > The only reason she is good now is because she was overbuffed and is overtuned, that is literally all there is to it but Riot are busy selling skins for her so it wont stop for a while. > > Meanwhile you can take your Tryndamere and stick to your 1v1 and PVE&PVtower why dont you, asking to be able to teamfight on him is like asking for to get a heap of early game buffs for nothing. I. Don't. Care. About. The. Strength. Of. The. Champions I don't give a shit about it. I give 0 fucks, absolutely no interest whatsoever. You could give Vayne -100 base AD so she actually heals her enemies, I still don't care about it. I want mechanical counterplay on ADCs on the same level as Irelia / Aatrox / Yorick. If that is not achieved nobody can tell me Tryn or Yi are toxic designs. Because they have the same mechanical counterplay as ADCs compared to the entire ADC roster. Kai'sa has the same mechanical counterplay as Dr.Mundo.
> [{quoted}](name=DanaoIxUv,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2ljp99kL,comment-id=00090001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-21T12:04:59.209+0000) > > You mean cc supports or what? > Those are counterpicks, they have existed since forever. Yes they are counters, however its not a question off "oh this will be harder than most others" rather its "this is not winnable at all.". > If the player playing against Draven is crap he doesn't deserve to win? > You don't balance around incompetent players. Its not a matter of skill, seriously. If Draven´s opponents have the means to punish him for playing around his axes then almost regardless of how good he is then he is useless. If they dont have said tools then they have no way to beat him. > It would be the same as now. You just would know that when Vayne goes invis and doesnt AA you that she is propably charging. Like....you realize that Vayne doesnt have to auto right away and she can easily chill for a second or so and just dash around her opponent giving them no hope of knowing what she is doing, right? Her not attacking right away would not really tell anyone anything in 8 out of 10 cases, the remaining ones are those with the ability to dodge a flash-R cassio ult. > Yeah I'm sure that was the entire reason, also I don't give a rats ass about pro-play. You´re being quite hypocritical here. You´re saying the game should be balanced around high elo but you dont care for pro play? You realize that pro play is the crystallization of high elo yes? ' And yes SKT were literally banning blitz in like 4 outa 5 games against the team using him because they couldnt come up with anything against him, they even said it later that they didnt have any solution on hand for him so they just banned it. > He has enough counterplay, his entire kit resolves around 1 skillshot, just like I proposed with Vayne so if Blitz is too op resolving around a skillshot that can't go through minions then after your logic Vayne wouldn't have any problems too right? You dont play botlane a lot do you? True blitz´s hook is his main deal, but when he has a strong position he can just pop his speedbuff, run down on the enemy AD, knockup, ult, hook and kill them with his ADC, optionally ult first when in range to prevent escapes. How do you outplay a guy running in to auto-knockup you into a long and damaging CC combo?¨ ¨SKT banned it. > Maybe you know.... when his fury is down don't let it stack up again or if he walks towards you, which is something you can see a mile away, prep for the trade and force an extended one? > At the same time why is Tryn doing short trades with 100 fury. Like....if he stacks 100 fury and just sits just behind his melee what is the counterplay then? He can with 1 step go into auto range but people have to enter that range to farm unless ranged. > You are acting like you're playing Mordekaiser, champs have tools to retaliate you know? > And he doesn't have a stun to keep you away from retaliating like Renekton has. You cant win against a 100% certain crit tryndamere who uses E backwards right after in a 1 auto trade, and you cant avoid said trade if he plays well either. > In what universe will a splitpusher let you stack up 4 spheres before engaging on you. The one where they are pushing towards you under tower? Duh. > Still doesn't matter because Steraks will eat most of the ult damage. Steraks is a shield based of your bonus health, doesnt shield for nearly enough unless you build only items that give AD/HP but even then you wont catch up. > And the pickrate of QSS on Tryn is still nowhere to be seen. Because he does not really play against other champions micro wise, he just rotates around endlessly until he can push against something undefended or if determined, push until he has to ult and run away. > Splitpushers aren't meant to be 1v1'd other than by other splitpushers. How stupid would it be if you can send any bob to a splitpusher and stop him that would make them totally useless. And yet Jax exists, and Trundle isnt bad in teamfighting either against strong tanks and olaf can be great as well. > Their strength lies in the fact that they can attract more than 1 guy to them so their team can take objectives. It's their entire purpose of existing. In return they are dogshit in treamfights. Now here is the problem with your philosophy and the rest of all the "come at me 1v1 bro" community. Tell me, how fair is it exactly, that a champ can not be utter shit like say kayle is early, and still scale to the point where you need 2+ people to deal with them? How balanced is it? Its not, its impossible to balance, which is why most "splitpushers" got reworked or nerfed or outright gutted. > Make up your mind are you talking about laning phase or outside of it. Both are important because Tryndameres is balanced around his lane and his splitpush. > In laning phase you don't need to kite him at all unless you are a ranged top. Except you do, because how else do you deal with his 100% certain crit auto trades that you cant deal with unless playing like...Renekton or Darius? > Melees can just fight him. Not everything has to run away if he dashes into a Trundle he will get his arse split in 2. It´d be boosted as hell to just dash ontop right away, rather just chill by your melee minions, max out fury, setup a 100% certain crit then go to trade, either a extended one or E back denying retaliation. > Also Tryn doesn't get crit chance in lane, the new build at least doesn't. So he is stuck with 35% for a while. As i mentioned as long as you have 20% at least its extremely easy to give yourself 100% crit chance for at least 1 auto, because crit chance is not actually RNG as many think, rather there is a funny math formula behind it that happens to have "bad luck protection" built in, you abuse that. > Yorick is also useless in Teamfights, is he also toxic? Pretty sure he was just gutted? > A) He is a late game monster, if he can't kill squishies in 2-3 hits by then he is just a worse Vayne in about every aspect imaginable. > B) Squishies shouldn't be getting into melee range with him in the first place, especially if he already got stunned. And here is the second problem, why is a supposed lategame monster able to fight others in lane? Should he not be just barely better than kayle in lane? But he is much better than her. > I. Don't. Care. About. The. Strength. Of. The. Champions > I don't give a shit about it. I give 0 fucks, absolutely no interest whatsoever. > You could give Vayne -100 base AD so she actually heals her enemies, I still don't care about it. > I want mechanical counterplay on ADCs on the same level as Irelia / Aatrox / Yorick. If that is not achieved nobody can tell me Tryn or Yi are toxic designs. There can never be mechanical counterplay to marksmen as long as tanks&assassins exist, nor can tanks be removed as long as marksmen exist. All the more insane marksmen changes in recent years were aimed at dealing with tanks, {{item:3153}} buffs, armor pen changes and buffs, onhit being changed and buffed, heck even lifesteal was made more accessible for them to deal with {{item:3075}} . But even so they get their power limited for it, because the more toxic/powerful a design is the less the powerbudget it has, Irelia is a great case of this as her ability to dash around proved so powerful she ate like 10 consecutive nerfs to compensate > Because they have the same mechanical counterplay as ADCs compared to the entire ADC roster. Mechanical counterplay is the same yes, you kill them, however you blatantly ignore the difference in difficulty in doing so and that is why you are destined to be ignored by the vast majority for all time as you preach this. ¨ A Vayne will die instantly if a Syndra so much as nudges her with a Q-E with her team around, a Yi? Will dodge the stun with either his Q or his movespeed then literally 3 shot the syndra before anyone can even react with Q-AA-AA unless she has zhonya, then he kills anyone else around unless a Rammus sits on him stopping him from ever moving. This applies to your sentence about kai´sa vs mundo as well, Kai´sa dies in 3 hits from any caster/ability user with damage, Mundo might die in 20 or 30 or not at all if the enemy cant deal it quickly enough given that he regens shittons of health the entire time. Furthermore, Kai´sa to apply max damage needs to basically get in just outside melee range, and as a marksman, to function properly. If she isnt risk/reward then i dont know what, she is basically what Vayne should have been.
DanaoIxUv (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2ljp99kL,comment-id=00090001000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-13T15:37:25.190+0000) > > Either he can keep juggling those and he is OP as bleeding hell or he is utterly useless. Yes either he is good with them so he gets rewarded or he is shit with them and is useless, just like Yasuo will be totally useless when he can't hit a single Q. It's called not having a 100% realible damage output. > yeah you can take 2 hits from him and die, thats what happens when you dont have a heap of armor. Vayne will do that to you too, actually she will do that even if you have 10K Armor :) You know where Draven will walk towards you can deny his damage, once the axes are gone he is far less dangerous. There is NOTHING you can do about Trist or Vayne, how hard is it to understand this concept of counterplay. > Turn a 3 hit passive into a skillshot? Right. Yeah almost like she needs a rework or something It still does the same crap, just now enemies can dodge it and we can't have that on an ADC now can we? Otherwise how would they be able to do their lcs big pallyz. > Would be terribly useless given how the main power of this ability is the wall stun which needs instant cast to work well. Didn't say you need to charge for 3 secs like a Xerath Q. Around 1 or 1.5 seconds for max distance, you just need to know when it is coming out as an enemy so you can either cc buffer it or avoid it. Also she can charge it in stealth. > Would make her terribly weak in lane to the point where she´d be unable to exist, enemy AD would just sit behind minions and bone her to no end. A) She is suppose to be weak in lane B) It's called counterplay, just like Blitz forces you to be behind your minions to avoid him. Just look how "useless" she is going to be when you add 1 SKILLSHOT. A SINGLE ONE. This is how low the ADC standard is, 1 skillshot is already too much. > Highly kitable? His W and E makes it so no melee can easily run from him. > > Yes he is indeed weaker with no fury, but that just means he´ll play safer for a while until he regains it. ?????????????? What melee can kite another melee "Play safer until he regains it" That is exactly a thing you can use to gain an advantage > Vayne and Trist die if you nuke them, trynda doesnt. And we are back at the start of this discussion > Syndra spanks trundle if she builds for it though, beats Fiora as well. > > Very few can do anything about a good Syndra lategame because her ult legit does 2000 damage when charged. > > Tryndamere? Cant be killed, can dive in under any tower giving no fks at all and kill his opponent very quickly and still get out. Yorick will run you over Nasus will run you over Olaf will LITERALLY run you over Trundle will run you over Fiora will run you over etc, etc. Syndra isn't a champ that is suppose to fuck with splitpushers. A splitpusher doesn't care about 2k damage, not that Syndra ult ever deals that much damage anyway. Steraks will eat 70% of that damage up and most of them run Spirit which will reduce the damage by another 20-30% or so. > Short cooldown dash that gets lowered when he crits on anything, so he can just run forward, eat the stun then run down his enemy, if really bogged down he can run stuff like or as well. No Tryn ever goes that elixier Tryn buying Merchs or QSS is shitty for him, he sacrifices power to stick to targets. Anyway the pickrate of this item on Tryn is so low that it is not worth even mentioning. By the way if you kite him he can't auto which means he can't crit which means he doesn't get his dash CD lowered. Have you ever played Tryndamere? > Difference is, marksman eats a stun, they die, instantly, not takebacks. Almost like they have to be blown up since they are beyond toxic design :) By the way Kaisa has a shield for half her entire HP bar and Xayah can become untargetable. Sivir has a spellshield, Ezreal has a cc-buffering blink. > Tryndamere? Eats a stun then turns to fight and kills both his attackers. Yep you never played Tryndamere > Tryndamere is reliably difficult to kill, that is why he must have more restrictions imposed on him compared to a kog/vayne/tristana who have their survival tied to abilities that might just be outright ignored. Then give the ADCs more survival and also give them more restrictions I don't care, just give me SOMETHING to work with when fighting them.
> [{quoted}](name=DanaoIxUv,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2ljp99kL,comment-id=000900010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-21T07:48:48.924+0000) > > Yes either he is good with them so he gets rewarded or he is shit with them and is useless, just like Yasuo will be totally useless when he can't hit a single Q. Its not a matter of skill at all, the problem is, is it possible to do so at all? In many matchups the answer is no meaning Draven can often largely be entirely useless, a fullblown troll pick. > It's called not having a 100% realible damage output. And this is why he can never be generally good but is instead extremely oppressive when he does work. > Vayne will do that to you too, actually she will do that even if you have 10K Armor :) Admittedly i have never been a fan of max health true damage. > You know where Draven will walk towards you can deny his damage, once the axes are gone he is far less dangerous. There is NOTHING you can do about Trist or Vayne, how hard is it to understand this concept of counterplay. Its you who fail to understand. The problem with Draven is that if his opponents are competent and have the tools then he is straight shit, utter damn shit. But if they dont? He is more oppressive than season 3 teemo/renekton in lane. > Didn't say you need to charge for 3 secs like a Xerath Q. Around 1 or 1.5 seconds for max distance, you just need to know when it is coming out as an enemy so you can either cc buffer it or avoid it. > Also she can charge it in stealth. Charging in stealth just removes the counterplay given that her stealth lasts 1 second. And a marksman cant afford such a charging time when the primary opponents consist of instant damage dealers, standing still even for a second is suicidal. > A) She is suppose to be weak in lane Difference between being weak and unable to lane at all, Vayne is entirely built around her current W and literally cant function without it, to change this she needs a rework, but she is deemed a niche pick thus left alone. > B) It's called counterplay, just like Blitz forces you to be behind your minions to avoid him. LOL. You are aware that SKT literally started banning blitz against some team using him under a worlds run because he doesnt actually have any counterplay right? > Just look how "useless" she is going to be when you add 1 SKILLSHOT. A SINGLE ONE. > This is how low the ADC standard is, 1 skillshot is already too much. Because they werent made for it, at least not the old ones which vayne is one of. > What melee can kite another melee Fiora, Trundle, Darius, jax, renekton are all really good at it, irelia as well to a lesser degree. > "Play safer until he regains it" > That is exactly a thing you can use to gain an advantage How exactly? If i try to fight him when he backs up to his minions i´ll just take too much damage from them and lose the trade anyway, but if he stacks fury he can walk into mine, hit me with a crit, E back and he does more than he takes. Fair trading pattern 101, which on the other hand is much like renektons style of E-W-Q-E back but at least he doesnt scale hard. > Yorick will run you over He cant run anyone down without landing his E or W. > Nasus will run you over With merc threads and 40% cdr he cant catch you, Syndra´s range is way too good for it. > Olaf will LITERALLY run you over Fair enough. > Trundle will run you over Same deal as nasus. > Fiora will run you over You can literally evaporate Fiora with her standard build as long as you dont ult her W, which is easy seeing as she usually either uses it to block your stun or trying to stop your kiting. > Syndra isn't a champ that is suppose to fuck with splitpushers. A splitpusher doesn't care about 2k damage, not that Syndra ult ever deals that much damage anyway. With 700 AP and a 7 sphere ult she does 2100 with her ult, even if reduced by say 30% thats still just short of 1600 damage, not counting her other abilities at all or keystone. > No Tryn ever goes that elixier Most Tryns never even try to teamfight which most mages do so they dont have to bother, but nice of you to notice. > Tryn buying Merchs or QSS is shitty for him, he sacrifices power to stick to targets. Dropping a tiny portion of attackspeed (usually i think?) to become that much harder to peel off is usually a good trade when the enemy is using long but basic CC, not that many toplaners or junglers actually have that though so he doesnt need it given that he just forces 1v2´s in the toplane all game. > By the way if you kite him he can't auto which means he can't crit which means he doesn't get his dash CD lowered. > Have you ever played Tryndamere? I have, any my conclusion is that as long as the enemy team cant beat you 1v1 then you are basically overpowered. And how exactly do you kite someone walking up with a 100% certain crit to auto you as you farm? Give up CS? Do that enough and he wins lane anyway. And yes there is a way to easily give yourself 100% crit chance as long as you have like 20% of it, and trynd with full fury has 30% which makes it really easy to do on him. > Almost like they have to be blown up since they are beyond toxic design :) Almost like Tryndamere has to be useless in teamfights because he is beyond toxic in design :) > By the way Kaisa has a shield for half her entire HP bar and Xayah can become untargetable. Oh and Kai´sas shield at max rank is 125+200%AD+75% AP. Which adds up to like ...375-500 with full build depending on build, which at it´s usually about a quarter of her health, but nice hyperbole anyway. Xayah has to become untargetable because short range doesnt work for a marksman unless they have a self defence tool, and as a funny fact, she became almost entirely useless the moment she got item nerfs to CDR making that ult less usable. > Sivir has a spellshield, Ezreal has a cc-buffering blink. Sivir has short range, Ez has some of the worst DPS any marksman has ever had. > Yep you never played Tryndamere Later on when he literally kills anyone squishy in 2-3 hits how is my statement not correct? > Then give the ADCs more survival and also give them more restrictions I don't care, just give me SOMETHING to work with when fighting them. You arent supposed to do anything like teamfighting when Tryndamere, heck you arent even supposed to leave the sidelanes, Tryndamee is literally one of the first champs made and his design is just as toxic and skewed as Vayne. The only reason she is good now is because she was overbuffed and is overtuned, that is literally all there is to it but Riot are busy selling skins for her so it wont stop for a while. Meanwhile you can take your Tryndamere and stick to your 1v1 and PVE&PVtower why dont you, asking to be able to teamfight on him is like asking for {{champion:10}} to get a heap of early game buffs for nothing.
: If void staff is going to have 40% magic pen, then achieving 150+ MR needs to be possible w/ 2 items
Isnt void staff so strong because{{item:3194}} exists? This item hurts a bunch of mages real bad in terms of damage so to make said mages do anything they had to buff the pen.
: Fighting a team of Freljord champs
Champs from the Freljord, despite everything their style´s more than just ice cold. Its stunning :D
: > [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=lykgjNiN,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-03-19T09:10:13.606+0000) > > Problem with all these is that kayle wants CDR and attackspeed as soon as possible to ensure a stable midgame if anything, AP is a bonus to fuel her entire kit. > > Luden isnt good, AD/critbuilds are expensive in total and take too long to get going with and lichbane should only work against squishy melee/short rangeds that cant punish you for using it on them. > > A whole lot of this is just flat out incorrect. Early attack speed is going to do what exactly when you're up against a {{champion:69}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:240}} ? Even attempting to combat these champions with an AS item rush is folly and you certainly won't be farming the wave with an AS item and no mana. Some matchups you can't even approach the wave in melee range. AS does very little for Kayle prior to level 11, it's essentially a noob trap despite what you may have heard. > And in my mind none of these should be anywhere near enough to make up for how terrible her early is, kayle simply only need levels and items that has synergy with her level up benefits to get into the game as quickly as possible,anyone playing any other common laner against her should just win lane regardless by default just by how weak she is almost irregardless of what she does in all but a few cases. Rushing a tear into catalyst can allow you to sit in lane and farm the wave from range without interacting with the enemy laner. As an added bonus catalyst gives you sustain to shrug off the poke some champs might be doing to you. This is the safest and most reliable way to get past her early game weaknesses as it allows you to sacrifice lane pressure for time you need to level up. By the time you hit level 11 you'll want AS and you'll likely already have something like a {{item:3101}} which is plenty enough to get you through to your second AS item. There are a number of lanes I'm consistently winning with this type of set up that would otherwise seem bleak matchups. About the only things I really dread seeing are {{champion:268}} {{champion:164}} and {{champion:157}} . Most other matchups can be stalled out for time with the mana hungry approach.
> [{quoted}](name=oOBestEveNAOo,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=lykgjNiN,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-03-19T10:33:44.332+0000) > > A whole lot of this is just flat out incorrect. Early attack speed is going to do what exactly when you're up against a {{champion:69}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:240}} ? Even attempting to combat these champions with an AS item rush is folly and you certainly won't be farming the wave with an AS item and no mana. Some matchups you can't even approach the wave in melee range. AS does very little for Kayle prior to level 11, it's essentially a noob trap despite what you may have heard. Point in case is, regardless of what you build you wont be able to do anything pre 11 against a competent opponent, kayle is made to be as such. > Rushing a tear into catalyst can allow you to sit in lane and farm the wave from range without interacting with the enemy laner. As an added bonus catalyst gives you sustain to shrug off the poke some champs might be doing to you. This is the safest and most reliable way to get past her early game weaknesses as it allows you to sacrifice lane pressure for time you need to level up. By the time you hit level 11 you'll want AS and you'll likely already have something like a {{item:3101}} which is plenty enough to get you through to your second AS item. There are a number of lanes I'm consistently winning with this type of set up that would otherwise seem bleak matchups. About the only things I really dread seeing are {{champion:268}} {{champion:164}} and {{champion:157}} . Most other matchups can be stalled out for time with the mana hungry approach. Tear into catalyst just means you are able to farm if the opponent doesnt deny you it. An enemy can literally sit in the enemy wave, throw their combo and back up and still win, that is how shitty kayle´s early is. Riot officially uploaded a guide made by wickd for a while, you can look at it [here.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq-D94QaEWE) General idea? Best you can do is to not fight at all, just get any CS you can and farm it out until 11, if you manage to scap out some CS ontop the EXP then you´ll be in a good spot, otherwise its a run to survive until you get about 3 items and 16.
: [Kayle Post] Early item prioritization for Kayle
Problem with all these is that kayle wants CDR and attackspeed as soon as possible to ensure a stable midgame if anything, AP is a bonus to fuel her entire kit. Luden isnt good, AD/critbuilds are expensive in total and take too long to get going with and lichbane should only work against squishy melee/short rangeds that cant punish you for using it on them. Heck Wickd basically made a guide that says exactly this. And in my mind none of these should be anywhere near enough to make up for how terrible her early is, kayle simply only need levels and items that has synergy with her level up benefits to get into the game as quickly as possible,anyone playing any other common laner against her should just win lane regardless by default just by how weak she is almost irregardless of what she does in all but a few cases.
: if I remember right, Aku actually means Evil , but not sure
It does, which but one of the many jokes about him x)
: {{champion:157}} Hasaki?
He can windwall the blind thus ensuring a secured cannon, consequences be damned and the day is saved! As expected of the Samurai.
: When Teemo blinds you right before you last hit the cannon minion
Someone call the samurai, we have a unspeakable evil on the loose!
: The void suit isn't black magic, it's biological evolution. So unless Vayne is an antivaxxer, she'd just ignore Kai'Sa since the void is just trying to survive
> [{quoted}](name=AngusBoomPants,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Bt3YIa4q,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-03-17T02:13:18.199+0000) > > The void suit isn't black magic, it's biological evolution. > > So unless Vayne is an antivaxxer, she'd just ignore Kai'Sa since the void is just trying to survive Its not biological tho, not entirely. Its more like a type of energy that affects normal creatures that come into contact with it, and warps them horrendously. But there are some cases of voidborn things acting like parasites and such but mostly magic.
: actually they mention how they dont like people doing a lot of damage fast without counterplay, this is wat crit is now. dont believe? look my recent matches and see ie spam in ranked then you will note the goodness of it.
It being good is one thing. But it being what you claimed it to be, is a completely different matter. Go read on the definition of "hyperbole" and take a moment to sit down to reflect why trying to argue balance with overblown examples would lead to utter disasters.
: Adc itemization is way too strong, IE is a bit overtuned and this crit damage is not really healthy.
1000 on people with 200-300 armor? You´re full of crap. 200 armor is just short of 70% damage reduction, even with a {{item:3036}} that is still 130 armor which is still about 55% damage reduction, or 50% for ease of math. You´re telling me there are marksmen who do about 2000 per hit on a crit before reductions? Meaning they then deal like....888 base damage per auto? When they even with 4 infinity edges and 100 base AD only hit .....420? AD? Meaning that with a crit they´d deal 950 damage given the target has 0 armor? Which is like half of what you stated? Even with 0 armor? Move this over to the rant boards, and add a warning for bullshit.
sobi999 (EUW)
: Can we look at syndra now?
I stalk the Syndra reddit from time time and the guys there really dont seem to favor the idea of any big buffs, they seem to wana keep her down low-ish. But someone mentioned something about reverting a nerf to her W radius and at least a few agreed to that idea, and a bug about suddenly being unable to grab a flying Q-E spehere with W was mentioned.
Ahris (NA)
: Okay how is she bad? Her kit has everything any ap mage will ever ask for like except for like of dashes.
She has a lot of bugs too going but what i heard, and apparently some W mechanic was randomly removed without a word.
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Thefrostyviking

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