Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 14
What's the Plan for Akali. It's pretty rude to gut a champion and then not even respond to the people who play it.
Moody P (NA)
: I repeat: Dumpster Tahm and rework him
RaPtUrA (EUW)
: Seriously, this ugly frog needs to be nerfed to oblivion.
> [{quoted}](name=RaPtUrA,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lIatROGG,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-06-07T15:14:01.776+0000) > > Seriously, this ugly frog needs to be nerfed to oblivion. Nerf him like Akali.
: I hope Mord is pick or ban in pro play.
I dont main Akali but I wish every champion in the game gets nerfed into oblivion so we can all quit this Trash Game with Apes as game developers & a group of Baboons as the balance team.
: Shes balanced. Shes a skill expression champion-ALL of them should be below 50% WR. Any skill expression champion over 50% WR is broken.
> [{quoted}](name=PhearBunny,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Zy4lrEfe,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-06-09T21:19:07.002+0000) > > Shes balanced. > Shes a skill expression champion-ALL of them should be below 50% WR. > Any skill expression champion over 50% WR is broken. Tough shit, there are dozens of champions that are hard to play and have a WR well above 50%. Most people agree that they are not broken.
: Nope, she's finally in a mildly balanced spot, leave her as she is now.
> [{quoted}](name=Iron Phantom,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ldXghIXA,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-06-07T15:29:03.441+0000) > > Nope, she's finally in a mildly balanced spot, leave her as she is now. I would love it if Katarina had the same winrate as her in solo Q.
: > [{quoted}](name=Tioym,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KW8ahJqy,comment-id=000800000000000100000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-27T12:55:20.626+0000) > > I don't understand why I'm wasting my time with you but here: > As you've said she loses kill pressure when she uses her Ult Defensively just like Ahri > > Well if it's the same thing as Ahri, then why is she getting nerfed while Ahri is sitting at a nice 53%. > You're a Hypocrite basically. All you want is for Akali to get nerfed and you dont care how or why. There's no Point talking to you because you're actually not even trying to think. You Literally explained the weaknesses to Akali yourself yet you fail to realise it. > No one here is asking for Akali to be buffed, we're only mad because she's getting nerfed into Oblivion. > Just because you dont like playing against her doesn't mean she should be nerfed. There are plenty of other far more annoying champions in League of Legends and they have no been touched for years. The Only reason Akali is being nerfed is because she's Pick/Ban in Pro-Play. The Thread explains exactly that and Suggests that Riot should stop fucking Balancing around Pro-play because the Player-base is not all Professional Players. Again. Further proving my point and ignoring the question. Why should akali be treated any differently? And yes. I’m going to keep asking this fucking question because no one has answered it. And yeah she’s being nerfed not only because of pro play, but because good akali’s decide games by themselves. She has 100% lane agency. Which is bullshit and you know it. If it was someone like syndra who decided games almost ENTIRELY by herself, this entire forum would have a rage boner trying to get her nerfed into the dirt.
> [{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KW8ahJqy,comment-id=00080000000000010000000000000001000000000000000000000002,timestamp=2019-05-27T19:24:05.897+0000) > > So. Using the logic you’ve just provided. Ryze needs to be buffed back up to his former glory because his win rate was dog shit in low elos and didn’t spike until super high elo. > > Same with our bird overlord azir. He needs to be buffed back into taking 60/200 of the challenger slots again. Bexause everyone who want in that area of skill was sub 45% winrate. > > > Oh. Same with Elise. She needs to buffed back Into her former glory of being pick/ban/lose, because she was only that strong in the hands of players who put the effort into learning her. > > The logic you use falls apart when not used to support your sacred fucking akali. You dumb shit, When does Akali's winrate spike? Her winrate is 43% in Platinum+ and It's 47% in Challenger. Stop being fucking delusional. Ryze has a 45% Winrate in Platinum1+ and 49% Winrate in Challenger. Akali is worse off than Fucking Ryze who has been shit Tier in Solo-Q for a long time. Yes, Ryze Deserves a **Change** that makes him more Viable in Solo-Q because Fuck You if you think the game should be balanced around Pro-Play OR the upper Echelons of Challenger. There's too much Team-play involved in Ryze's Kit which makes him Shit-tier in Solo-Q where you're trying to Solo Carry. I don't know much about Azir so cannot say much on that, But for a champion to sit at >45% winrate and be considered broken is always just a bull-shit excuse for Balancing not done Right. My Logic does not fall Apart, your standards are absolute trash for any champion you don't like to play against. Your Argument is plain and simple: Please Remove every champion I Don't like to play against from the game. There are plenty of champions that are annoying for me and I don't go to threads to whine about them and Suggest that Riot nerf them to Oblivion. I wont bother replying to you after this I've proven you wrong Multiple times and I see no end to this conversation. _It's hard to win an argument with a smart Person but it's damn near impossible to win an argument against someone dumb. _
: > [{quoted}](name=Tioym,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KW8ahJqy,comment-id=000800000000000100000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-27T12:55:20.626+0000) > > I don't understand why I'm wasting my time with you but here: > As you've said she loses kill pressure when she uses her Ult Defensively just like Ahri > > Well if it's the same thing as Ahri, then why is she getting nerfed while Ahri is sitting at a nice 53%. > You're a Hypocrite basically. All you want is for Akali to get nerfed and you dont care how or why. There's no Point talking to you because you're actually not even trying to think. You Literally explained the weaknesses to Akali yourself yet you fail to realise it. > No one here is asking for Akali to be buffed, we're only mad because she's getting nerfed into Oblivion. > Just because you dont like playing against her doesn't mean she should be nerfed. There are plenty of other far more annoying champions in League of Legends and they have no been touched for years. The Only reason Akali is being nerfed is because she's Pick/Ban in Pro-Play. The Thread explains exactly that and Suggests that Riot should stop fucking Balancing around Pro-play because the Player-base is not all Professional Players. Again. Further proving my point and ignoring the question. Why should akali be treated any differently? And yes. I’m going to keep asking this fucking question because no one has answered it. And yeah she’s being nerfed not only because of pro play, but because good akali’s decide games by themselves. She has 100% lane agency. Which is bullshit and you know it. If it was someone like syndra who decided games almost ENTIRELY by herself, this entire forum would have a rage boner trying to get her nerfed into the dirt.
> [{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KW8ahJqy,comment-id=0008000000000001000000000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-27T15:28:02.442+0000) > > Again. Further proving my point and ignoring the question. > > Why should akali be treated any differently? And yes. I’m going to keep asking this fucking question because no one has answered it. > > And yeah she’s being nerfed not only because of pro play, but because good akali’s decide games by themselves. She has 100% lane agency. Which is bullshit and you know it. > > If it was someone like syndra who decided games almost ENTIRELY by herself, this entire forum would have a rage boner trying to get her nerfed into the dirt. You dont have a fucking Question dude, What the fuck do you mean Akali decides lanes all by herself? It's impossible to get anything through your thick skull. Akali is not deciding anything here: Her winrate shows it. She has a 43% WR in Plat and a 47% WR in Challenger. Challenger Players are pretty fucking good at Akali and yet they cant win games with her. IF AKALI IS SUPPOSED TO BE STRONG IN HIGH-ELO WHY DOES SHE NOT EVEN HAVE A POSITIVE WINRATE IN CHALLENGER?. I don't see your fucking point all you do is whine like a baby about how Akali decides wether she wants to win the game or not: Well Where's the fucking Proof. Stop talking out your arse. Your whole argument is: Akali is too safe because she has Dashes. Well SHIT, Looks like Akali is the only champion with a Gap Closer in this game right? I talked about Ahri and how she also has dashes and your dumbass keeps saying: OH tHat doEsn'T AnsWer mY qUestion!!!. HOW THE FUCK? Ahri can use her dashes to disengage, Akali can do the same. Yet you think Akali is the one that's broken? You cant even back anything up. There are dozens of champions that have dashes which can be used to disengage, YES Those champions are all more safer than champions that DONT have a Disengage. It's the reason Kai'sa has a better winrate than Jhin: She has a Dash/Stealth to get to safety. THAT DOESN'T FUCKING MEAN KAI'SA IS BROKEN simply because she has a Dash. You are out of your mind. You have NO Proof to back up your claims and yet you keep talking as if you're right. Fuck, Even if I sit here all day giving you Proof of how you're completely wrong you wont accept it so I suggest stop fucking crying in the comments. No one will bother replying to you because you don't even want to listen to anyone but yourself. So Fuck you, Have a nice day. Please don't bother commenting here, you have NOTHING to add to the argument. You may as well start a petition to remove every champion with a dash from the game, let's see how far that goes. Ahri uses her ult to dash away to safety: Yeah that's cool 52% + WR Across All ELOs is Also Balanced Akali uses her Ult to dash away to safety: FUCK BROKEN OH NO I'M DYING. >45% WR across All ELOS(Except GM/Challenger) SHIT SO UNBALANCED BETTER NERF HER TO OBLIVION.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ozzburne,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KW8ahJqy,comment-id=0008000000000001000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-05-27T08:23:47.912+0000) > > You arent asking anything and you arent listening to the answers anyway so please do everyone a favor and uninstall the game and leave the forums Except I’ve asked the same question and no one wants to answer. Because you all think akali is this sacred cow who should Be exempt from all the same restrictions as every other champion. Oh if she uses her ult defensively she has no kill pressure. LIKE EVERY OTHER CHAMPION.
> [{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KW8ahJqy,comment-id=00080000000000010000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-27T08:49:44.004+0000) > > Except I’ve asked the same question and no one wants to answer. Because you all think akali is this sacred cow who should > Be exempt from all the same restrictions as every other champion. > > Oh if she uses her ult defensively she has no kill pressure. LIKE EVERY OTHER CHAMPION. I don't understand why I'm wasting my time with you but here: As you've said she loses kill pressure when she uses her Ult Defensively just like Ahri Well if it's the same thing as Ahri, then why is she getting nerfed while Ahri is sitting at a nice 53%. You're a Hypocrite basically. All you want is for Akali to get nerfed and you dont care how or why. There's no Point talking to you because you're actually not even trying to think. You Literally explained the weaknesses to Akali yourself yet you fail to realise it. No one here is asking for Akali to be buffed, we're only mad because she's getting nerfed into Oblivion. Just because you dont like playing against her doesn't mean she should be nerfed. There are plenty of other far more annoying champions in League of Legends and they have no been touched for years. The Only reason Akali is being nerfed is because she's Pick/Ban in Pro-Play. The Thread explains exactly that and Suggests that Riot should stop fucking Balancing around Pro-play because the Player-base is not all Professional Players.
: > [{quoted}](name=Tioym,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KW8ahJqy,comment-id=00080000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-25T17:01:25.449+0000) > > What happens when Ahri uses her Ult Defensively: She loses a Huge Zone of threat > What happens when Akali user her Ult Defensively: She loses a Huge Zone of Threat > > What happens when Blue Kayn doesn't have his Ult: He's half a fucking Champion > What happens when Akali doesn't have her Ult: She's half a fucking Champiom > > What happens when a Jinx goes Even in Lane: She Scales into the Late-game > What happens when Akali goes even in Lane: She Falls off after the Mid-game > > What Happens when you use only 1% of your brain: Your Argument Except you litteraly just proved my point. :/ Have defensive utility IS NOT A FUCKING DOWNSIDE. I don’t know why you all this she’s this sacred cow, who should be exempt from all the restrictions every other champion has.
> [{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KW8ahJqy,comment-id=000800000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-26T01:29:58.097+0000) > > Except you litteraly just proved my point. :/ > > Have defensive utility IS NOT A FUCKING DOWNSIDE. > > I don’t know why you all this she’s this sacred cow, who should be exempt from all the restrictions every other champion has. Oh God. You were right all along. Wow. If you're happy now, stop wasting our time.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ozzburne,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KW8ahJqy,comment-id=000800000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-05-25T11:51:07.520+0000) > > 2 of which are on and ultimate with a ~2 minute cooldown and the third on a 16 second cooldown. > > You realize that akali doesn't *want* to play safe right? Like this is the wildest hing about everyone saying she's so safe. You know what happens to an akali that plays safe? She loses. She has to be aggressive with her abilities and time because she falls off hard without kills. > > You know what the result is of her ult dashing away? 2 minutes where she has no kill pressure. Use it. Okay? The same can be said with any mobility spell. No one wants to lose lane. No champion even wants to go even in lane. :/ why should she be any different? I don’t want to go even in the game as kayn, I want to transform and snowball. I don’t want to go even as jinx, I want to gain any lead and push it hard. What happens when blue kayn doesn’t have his ult? He’s half a fucking champion, and can no longer fight people. What happens when ahri uses her ult defensively. She loses a huge zone of threat. Having an ult you can use defensively is not a negative. It’s a huge upside.
> [{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KW8ahJqy,comment-id=0008000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-25T12:48:31.912+0000) > > Okay? The same can be said with any mobility spell. No one wants to lose lane. No champion even wants to go even in lane. :/ why should she be any different? > > I don’t want to go even in the game as kayn, I want to transform and snowball. > > I don’t want to go even as jinx, I want to gain any lead and push it hard. > > What happens when blue kayn doesn’t have his ult? He’s half a fucking champion, and can no longer fight people. > > What happens when ahri uses her ult defensively. She loses a huge zone of threat. > > Having an ult you can use defensively is not a negative. It’s a huge upside. What happens when Ahri uses her Ult Defensively: She loses a Huge Zone of threat What happens when Akali user her Ult Defensively: She loses a Huge Zone of Threat What happens when Blue Kayn doesn't have his Ult: He's half a fucking Champion What happens when Akali doesn't have her Ult: She's half a fucking Champiom What happens when a Jinx goes Even in Lane: She Scales into the Late-game What happens when Akali goes even in Lane: She Falls off after the Mid-game What Happens when you use only 1% of your brain: Your Argument
Ilezt (NA)
: One word:"Revert" It will probably be healthier for everyone who plays akali and plays against her, than what it is now it would also be easier to balance old Akali's kit than reworked Akali's kit - thats just my opinion tho :). What do you think?
> [{quoted}](name=Ilezt,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KW8ahJqy,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2019-05-24T20:58:59.111+0000) > > One word:"Revert" > It will probably be healthier for everyone who plays akali and plays against her, than what it is now it would also be easier to balance old Akali's kit than reworked Akali's kit - thats just my opinion tho :). > What do you think? I only Picked up Akali after the rework(Yes I got baited by the KDA Skin Lel). I love playing the current Akali but At this point I dont care. I think I could speak for most of the Akali Mains that everyone is tired of this new Akali. Either Fix her in One fell swoop OR Just Revert her. I would Prefer if they were able to Fix the new Akali but if they think that's too hard for them then they should just admit defeat and Revert her. Just get over it Riot: Admit that you fucked up.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: I see, that explains well why she has 69% win rate and 100% pick/ban in pro LUL
> [{quoted}](name=D357R0Y3R,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AQmiZB2W,comment-id=001e0000,timestamp=2019-05-24T17:40:52.231+0000) > > I see, that explains well why she has 69% win rate and 100% pick/ban in pro LUL You're not a Pro-player.
Rylalei (EUNE)
: When the ADC items got nerfed, a lot of champions went bot lane, one of them being Darius. Of course, that only happened in high elos, as lower elos were.....special. I understood the passive nerf quite well, I think you don't understand something. The passive requires you to auto attack, and having it that strong of an AD scaling double dips hard because not only does the AD buff her attack by default, it also buffs the passive damage. They also nerfed the AP on it to prevent the old AP Bruiser Akali build (Liandry into Rylali's) coming back when the AD one gets nerfed. Also, it's not "few players take her top", maybe few in low elo, but the higher elo you go, the more people play her top. Sometimes diversity is bad, there's no way around it. Camille had to go out of the jungle because of how strong he was compared to how strong she scales. Her ganks are insane, once she gets a Tiamat her clear speed is fast and decently healthy, and most importantly, she scales way too well for how strong she is early game. Look at the other early junglers like Rek'sai or Xin, they don't scale that well. When a new role is discovered for a champion (Viktor top, Taliyah jg, etc), Riot gives time to see if the thing is toxic or not. Just because you don't have problems vs it in low elos doesn't mean the thing is healthy for the game. AP Malphite works only in lower elos because they don't know how to punish, but in higher elos? No-one goes AP Malphite because there it's a troll build. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do it. If the role is deemed toxic for the champ, it's taken out. Yes, forcing a champ into a specific role can feel stupid, but sometimes it's a necessity. Janna mid anyone? Or Lulu top?
> [{quoted}](name=Rylalei,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KW8ahJqy,comment-id=000a0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-24T17:06:24.899+0000) > > When the ADC items got nerfed, a lot of champions went bot lane, one of them being Darius. Of course, that only happened in high elos, as lower elos were.....special. > > I understood the passive nerf quite well, I think you don't understand something. The passive requires you to auto attack, and having it that strong of an AD scaling double dips hard because not only does the AD buff her attack by default, it also buffs the passive damage. They also nerfed the AP on it to prevent the old AP Bruiser Akali build (Liandry into Rylali's) coming back when the AD one gets nerfed. > > Also, it's not "few players take her top", maybe few in low elo, but the higher elo you go, the more people play her top. > > Sometimes diversity is bad, there's no way around it. Camille had to go out of the jungle because of how strong he was compared to how strong she scales. Her ganks are insane, once she gets a Tiamat her clear speed is fast and decently healthy, and most importantly, she scales way too well for how strong she is early game. Look at the other early junglers like Rek'sai or Xin, they don't scale that well. > > When a new role is discovered for a champion (Viktor top, Taliyah jg, etc), Riot gives time to see if the thing is toxic or not. Just because you don't have problems vs it in low elos doesn't mean the thing is healthy for the game. AP Malphite works only in lower elos because they don't know how to punish, but in higher elos? No-one goes AP Malphite because there it's a troll build. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do it. If the role is deemed toxic for the champ, it's taken out. Yes, forcing a champ into a specific role can feel stupid, but sometimes it's a necessity. Janna mid anyone? Or Lulu top? I Agree with most of the stuff you say. I only brought up Camille as an Example I dont think she should be in the Jungle anyway, her ganks are too good so if she's viable in the Jungle she'll always be Pick/Ban in High Elo. I think I stand by my point that the new changes are a nerf to Both AD and AP Akali. Why? If you currently build Bruiser Akali, you'll have Let's say 300 AD and No AP - Your Passive Hit will add Bonus Damage to it Equal to 90% of your Total AD. If you build Bruiser Akali after the Nerf and you have 300 AD and No AP. Your Passive Hit for 60% of your Total AD. The AD Ratio has been nerfed while the Amount of Total AD she has is still the same. Before she would deal 300 + 270 Damage, Now she deals 300 + 180 Damage. That's a straight up Nerf even to AD Akali. Am I getting anything wrong here? Yes her Normal Autos now do more damage as well now but it's still a Nerf from the current Patch. If Bruiser Akali is being played a lot High-Elo her winrate is still not good. As I've Researched I've found her Winrate in Challenger to be 44%. So Even if the AD Akali build is better, she's still not winning any games. If Challenger players cannot play her and get a Positive WInrate then it's safe to say she needs a slight Buff OR At the very least No Nerfs. I think she's currently strong enough to play, and doesn't need any buffs. Obviously I also know that some challenger players have a high winrate on her but that's pretty much a Dozen or so people who play her Absolutely Perfectly. I don't think we can Balance the whole game because of those few people.
Ryzê (NA)
: I just want to say one thing, stop capitalizing random words throughout the sentence. There is actually no consistency in some of your sentences.
> [{quoted}](name=Ryzê,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KW8ahJqy,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2019-05-24T16:49:34.267+0000) > > I just want to say one thing, stop capitalizing random words throughout the sentence. There is actually no consistency in some of your sentences. Hey man I'm not the best at typing english lol Sorry if it was bad. I'm only trying to prove a point. It helps if you make stuff bold.
Rylalei (EUNE)
: The role you play in doesn't mean the identity... Darius was played bot lane, that doesn't change the fact that he's a bruiser. Vayne still builds as a marksman even if she's top lane. Pyke is an assassin but he's a support, Evenlynn is an assassin but he's a jungler, Kat is an assassin but she's a mid laner. An identity is not the role you play the champion in, but the way the champion is ment to be played. Akali is ment to be an assassin but she's played as a bruiser. Shyvana also has the same identity problem, she's ment to be an AD Bruiser but she's played as AP Assassin, basically the reverse of Akali.
> [{quoted}](name=Rylalei,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KW8ahJqy,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2019-05-24T15:10:56.804+0000) > > The role you play in doesn't mean the identity... > > Darius was played bot lane, that doesn't change the fact that he's a bruiser. > > Vayne still builds as a marksman even if she's top lane. > > Pyke is an assassin but he's a support, Evenlynn is an assassin but he's a jungler, Kat is an assassin but she's a mid laner. > > An identity is not the role you play the champion in, but the way the champion is ment to be played. Akali is ment to be an assassin but she's played as a bruiser. > > Shyvana also has the same identity problem, she's ment to be an AD Bruiser but she's played as AP Assassin, basically the reverse of Akali. Few people pick Akali Top because she does so well against some champions due to her Shroud. That's it. Her shroud works better against Top-Laners rather than Mid-laners. The Rest of her Kit is designed around Mid-Lane. You can Play Malphite AP and Tank. You can Play Galio AP and Tank. Pyke can build Tanky and be decent despite Nerfs to Tank Pyke. Evelynn is a jungler simply because her Passive is for Roaming. When was Darius played bot-lane? I don't know about this one sorry. I feel like every champion has their Niche and instead of looking at it as if it's a bad thing you should just accept it. Isn't it good that you can play AP AND AD Malphite? It gives more Depth to the champion and it's not the same old Song every time. I can see what you mean by your argument but I feel like it just doesnt work that well. It's the same as forcing a champion to a singular role. Just the way Camille Nerfs have forced her to be a Top-Laner instead of a Jungler. Yes Camille Jungle does not Build Differently than Camille Top-lane but was it really good to Wipe out Camille from the jungle? Also the Nerfs are : **(Passive) AP 70% -> 50% AD 90% -> 60%** You say these Nerfs will be better for AD Akali but I don't see that happening. Currently if you build AD Akali you will do a lot more damage than after this Nerf so this is Obviously a Nerf to Akali as a WHOLE. You have probably Misunderstood the Changes.
: > [{quoted}](name=Tioym,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AQmiZB2W,comment-id=000c000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-24T04:31:14.427+0000) > > I'm not saying Akali needs to be buffed. I'm saying they need to stop nerfing her further. So No your stats prove nothing. No one said she needed buffs. As for needing nerfs, I wouldn't say the term nerf is appropriate, more or less powershifts or a straight up redo of her kit. >You can Look up the Top 10 Player stats for almost every champion and see very high winrates. You missed the point If you can't identify the difference between this: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389945345594884098/581257949524262932/unknown.png and this: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389945345594884098/581340419145728004/unknown.png Then don't bother trying to come up with logic. That doesn't mean one needs nerfs, or one needs buffs, that means akali, does succeed more in challenger, where as other champions don't succeed much at all in challenger despite lower skill floors. You started this topic, how do you fail to keep up with it? >Does that mean Every fucking champion now needs to be nerfed? Dodges the point > How come Top 10 *Insert Champion* Player can have a 60% winrate but when a Top 10 Akali Player >gets that you think to yourself: Wow fucking broken better remove. Dodges the point because if the top peak of the leaderboards feel the need to ban a champion, and that said champion does infact do significantly better at that peak where assumingly everybody should know how to counter it, but it doesn't do well in lower MMRs, its literally Azir syndrome where the champ is toxic and if it is performing well, its probably too strong and warranted enough to nerf or adjust it. This isn't the case because if trundle has a 60% winrate, but mostly only in diamond and masters, thats not the peak performance, thats him succeeding in less coordinated lower MMR where players make mistakes that he can punish, that doesn't make trundle good infact he's pretty shit right now. There's no reason to nerf something because low diamond can't handle it, but there is a big issue if high challenger can't handle it to the point they're banning it since again, that's a sign maybe there isn't counterplay after all. As for other champs that are all challenger peak performance; Jayce (oh wait he is getting nerfed on PBE), Aatrox (hot damn, how many nerfs has he gotten already?), Riven (nerfs on PBE), Vayne (nerfs on PBE) must be akali exclusive. > It's just you twisting things to suit your argument. https://www.potterybarn.com/pbimgs/rk/images/dp/wcm/201849/0387/kensington-pivot-oval-mirror-o.jpg > No Point having an argument with you because you're biased and you will only twist things to prove your point. Good Job. Imagine being hardstuck denial. I think you should focus on practicing playing the game and less on debates because somehow your conversation skills are worse than your game experience. I should just say 'nah you're biased' anytime i'm wrong, I wonder how far that'll get me {{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}}
> [{quoted}](name=Tormentula,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AQmiZB2W,comment-id=000c0002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-24T05:09:13.074+0000) > > No one said she needed buffs. As for needing nerfs, I wouldn't say the term nerf is appropriate, more or less powershifts or a straight up redo of her kit. > > You missed the point > > If you can't identify the difference between this: > > https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389945345594884098/581257949524262932/unknown.png > > and this: > > https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389945345594884098/581340419145728004/unknown.png > > Then don't bother trying to come up with logic. > > That doesn't mean one needs nerfs, or one needs buffs, that means akali, does succeed more in challenger, where as other champions don't succeed much at all in challenger despite lower skill floors. > > You started this topic, how do you fail to keep up with it? > > Dodges the point > > Dodges the point because if the top peak of the leaderboards feel the need to ban a champion, and that said champion does infact do significantly better at that peak where assumingly everybody should know how to counter it, but it doesn't do well in lower MMRs, its literally Azir syndrome where the champ is toxic and if it is performing well, its probably too strong and warranted enough to nerf or adjust it. > > This isn't the case because if trundle has a 60% winrate, but mostly only in diamond and masters, thats not the peak performance, thats him succeeding in less coordinated lower MMR where players make mistakes that he can punish, that doesn't make trundle good infact he's pretty shit right now. There's no reason to nerf something because low diamond can't handle it, but there is a big issue if high challenger can't handle it to the point they're banning it since again, that's a sign maybe there isn't counterplay after all. > > As for other champs that are all challenger peak performance; Jayce (oh wait he is getting nerfed on PBE), Aatrox (hot damn, how many nerfs has he gotten already?), Riven (nerfs on PBE), Vayne (nerfs on PBE) > > must be akali exclusive. > > https://www.potterybarn.com/pbimgs/rk/images/dp/wcm/201849/0387/kensington-pivot-oval-mirror-o.jpg > > Imagine being hardstuck denial. I think you should focus on practicing playing the game and less on debates because somehow your conversation skills are worse than your game experience. > > I should just say 'nah you're biased' anytime i'm wrong, I wonder how far that'll get me > > {{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}} Trundle is a More or Less Easy Champion which is made for Low-elo which is why you see Less Challengers playing him. His Kit is easy to understand other than the Pillar and easy to Execute as well. There is a Limit to how many things you can do as A Trundle while that Limit is much Larger for Akali. This is why More Challenger Players will pick Akali. Trundle does not even have a high Pick-rate in High-Elo. Again you're twisting the stats to suit your needs. Pick a Champion that has a Similar Pick-Rate as Akali in High-Elo and you will see Comparable Stats. You're basically doing this: Hey There are 10 Akali Mains in Challenger while only 2 Ziggz mains in Challenger, Akali Confirmed broken. Your Analogy is stupid yet again and I cant seem to understand why you would keep on trying to argue with me when you keep getting Proved wrong. Garen will never be as viable as Akali in High Elo because he is made to for Low-Elo. You cannot Compare a champion such as Trundle who is made mainly for Low-Elo to Akali who is made for High-Elo. Ahri is a somewhat hard champion to Pull off which explains her Pick-rate in challenger(Roughly 8% Similar to Akali). Comparing Ahri and Akali, you will see that there are a large number of Ahri Mains in challenger as well. I DONT SEE ANY AHRI NERFS. She does well in High-Elo AND Low-Elo. She has a high winrate as well. **You're just whining because you dominated by an Akali in your game.** Dont waste my time.
: > [{quoted}](name=Tioym,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KW8ahJqy,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2019-05-24T03:12:36.558+0000) > > There are dozens of other champions that have a lot of escape ability and you could say the exact same thing for them. This does not prove anything and you cannot justify the nerfs with this. And none of them are as effective as akali. If a champion has 100% agency in every lane by default. They are overpowered. You can play perfectly into an akali and still lose lane, because she decides the lane entirely by herself.
> [{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KW8ahJqy,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2019-05-24T04:37:17.193+0000) > > And none of them are as effective as akali. > > If a champion has 100% agency in every lane by default. They are overpowered. > > You can play perfectly into an akali and still lose lane, because she decides the lane entirely by herself. No you're just wrong man. Sorry Dude, Akali has cooldown Windows you can punish her through and she has an incredibly weak Early game during which it's Almost impossible to not be under your turret 24/7. She has to play around her Power-spike which is Lv.6 and Lv.11. She falls off Very Hard late game and I usually never win Akali games that go beyond 30 Minutes. If you lose lane to Akali while playing Perfectly against her you probably did not Play Perfectly against her.
Rylalei (EUNE)
: Although I hate that Akali is getting nerfed as it's hard for me to learn her due to the mastery points I got on the prerework Akali, I do agree that she needs changes. Not nerfs nor buffs, she needs an actual identity. Right now she's advertised as a mid lane assassin but due to how high her TTK is, she's played as a bruiser in top. I don't mind having the option to play either one, but she needs to find out what she actually is. If she's an assassin power shift her towards that, lower her sustained damage and buff her burst while still allowing her to go bruiser in certain conditions, but if she's a bruiser, then change her accordingly, and the current change does that, it balances around bring a top lane bruiser, and I don't mind that.
> [{quoted}](name=Rylalei,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KW8ahJqy,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-05-24T04:54:14.793+0000) > > Although I hate that Akali is getting nerfed as it's hard for me to learn her due to the mastery points I got on the prerework Akali, I do agree that she needs changes. > > Not nerfs nor buffs, she needs an actual identity. Right now she's advertised as a mid lane assassin but due to how high her TTK is, she's played as a bruiser in top. I don't mind having the option to play either one, but she needs to find out what she actually is. If she's an assassin power shift her towards that, lower her sustained damage and buff her burst while still allowing her to go bruiser in certain conditions, but if she's a bruiser, then change her accordingly, and the current change does that, it balances around bring a top lane bruiser, and I don't mind that. I see your point. I wouldn't really "Mind" if things go that way but the Nerf is clearly: Reduction in Both **AP & AD %**. It's NOT only AP being reduced here so It's a nerf to both Bruiser AND Assasin Akali. Next this Concept about "Identity". Let me break it to you: Very Few champions in League have this Identity you talk about. You want Akali to be in Either Top OR Mid. What other champion do you think only stays in their Lane? Very Few. Just today I got my ass handed to me by a Top-Lane Vayne. Well? Why is she in Top? Isn't she supposed to have the "Identity" of an ADC and stay Bot-lane Only? If you think it was just a troll/Counter Pick then you're wrong because Top-Lane Vayne does **VERY** well into many Champions. Well then is she getting nerfed? Not really. It's not only Vayne Top. It's not like I'm giving you an Isolated example. Look at Aatrox; he does great Mid & Top. Look at **VLADIMIR**, This piece of shit(Biased but god damn dude) does GREAT in both Mid & Top. Look at Irelia, She does great Mid & Top. Look at Kayn - He does great in Jungle but is very Viable in Top. Look at Lux, She is a great Support AND Mid-laner. These examples are just from the top of my head. The Identity Concept you speak of does not Exist in Riot's Standards and probably never will. They will Buff/Nerf a champion at Whim/Players Whining OR **Because the Champion is picked a lot in Pro-Play**. I would accept your reasoning if Riot actually did that to other champions, but they don't. So There's no reason for Akali to be Nerfed.
: But pinkward has a 50 wr
> [{quoted}](name=JhinuinelyDunk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KW8ahJqy,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-24T11:32:59.127+0000) > > But pinkward has a 50 wr https://las.op.gg/summoner/userName=shacosucks Good Bullshit.
: > [{quoted}](name=Tioym,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AQmiZB2W,comment-id=000c0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-24T03:00:14.927+0000) > > Your Stats Prove NOTHING. Look up Stats for the top 10 players for *ANY FUCKING CHAMPION*. Because they're all different Elos, there's a difference between the top 12 players of one champion having positive winrates **_in challenger_** and the top 12 being mostly diamond or masters. So yes, they do prove akali is a strong high elo champ in comparison to something like trundle which is mostly only positive in diamond. Its not cherry picking if its the truth, understand the context, and understand how stats work then disprove them. Or even just play a game in high elo to see the outcome for yourself.
> [{quoted}](name=Tormentula,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AQmiZB2W,comment-id=000c00020000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-24T03:45:05.664+0000) > > Because they're all different Elos, there's a difference between the top 12 players of one champion having positive winrates **_in challenger_** and the top 12 being mostly diamond or masters. > > So yes, they do prove akali is a strong high elo champ in comparison to something like trundle which is mostly only positive in diamond. > > Its not cherry picking if its the truth, understand the context, and understand how stats work then disprove them. Or even just play a game in high elo to see the outcome for yourself. I'm not saying Akali needs to be buffed. I'm saying they need to stop nerfing her further. So No your stats prove nothing. You can Look up the Top 10 Player stats for almost every champion and see very high winrates. Does that mean Every fucking champion now needs to be nerfed? How come Top 10 *Insert Champion* Player can have a 60% winrate but when a Top 10 Akali Player gets that you think to yourself: Wow fucking broken better remove. So No Your stats do not prove anything. It's just you twisting things to suit your argument. No Point having an argument with you because you're biased and you will only twist things to prove your point. Good Job.
: Akali is broken. She has 100% agency in any matchup. If at any point any akali dies for any reason, It is 190% their fault. Even if an ally baits them in, its her fault.
> [{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KW8ahJqy,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-05-24T01:08:00.314+0000) > > Akali is broken. She has 100% agency in any matchup. > > If at any point any akali dies for any reason, > It is 190% their fault. Even if an ally baits them in, its her fault. There are dozens of other champions that have a lot of escape ability and you could say the exact same thing for them. This does not prove anything and you cannot justify the nerfs with this.
: > [{quoted}](name=GripaAviara,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AQmiZB2W,comment-id=000c00020000,timestamp=2019-05-23T22:56:55.307+0000) > > 49% at a master level mains? where are you seeing 49% 'mains'? You mean in this screenshot? https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389945345594884098/581238486707994675/unknown.png cause that's the collective number, not the 'mains' number. The 'mains' number is actually the 56% as that's the number collected from high elo mains of the champions. The average of these stats: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389945345594884098/581257949524262932/unknown.png That's not unrewarding to master if every 'master' is having a productive success rate, with the average expectancy of peak performance being 56.5%. It'd be unrewarding if you didn't have productive stats (such as trundle where 3 of the top 12 are D4, 2 are D1, 2 masters, 3 GM, and only 2 are challenger, showing its a lot less productive to get anywhere above an average of diamond or masters by picking up trundle in the current meta). >They don't need to buff Akali, just make her less punishing. Akali needs a little buff to middle/late game sustain. Her initial heal was great at that point but broken early. They just needed to offer her a scaling AP+AD heal on passive Problem is ravenous hunter + taste of blood + doran's shield + akali's own healing. It puts her at an edge over other laners (especially top laners) given they couldn't even trade back with her due to the empowered auto range, Q range, and shroud. It'd be a different story maybe if she didn't have the best escape tools and trading tools on top of sustain, but all of that at once is too much. Its a serious mess of a kit, everything about it is problematic.. the Q spam is toxic, the empowered auto bonus range is toxic, the shroud mechanic was her biggest problem to begin with pre and post rework, and even gutted its still toxic, the E 2nd cast isn't that much of a problem but the knock back effect is way too good, and the ult giving two charges of untargeted dashes makes her incredibly too slippery and hard to punish/avoid. She needs back to the drawing board cause no matter how weak she is, if an akali is good enough to identify a situation they can still bullshit their way out of unfavorable scenarios, sometimes with a positive outcome.
> [{quoted}](name=Tormentula,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AQmiZB2W,comment-id=000c000200000000,timestamp=2019-05-23T23:22:43.724+0000) > > where are you seeing 49% 'mains'? > > You mean in this screenshot? > > https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389945345594884098/581238486707994675/unknown.png > > cause that's the collective number, not the 'mains' number. The 'mains' number is actually the 56% as that's the number collected from high elo mains of the champions. > > The average of these stats: > > https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389945345594884098/581257949524262932/unknown.png > > That's not unrewarding to master if every 'master' is having a productive success rate, with the average expectancy of peak performance being 56.5%. It'd be unrewarding if you didn't have productive stats (such as trundle where 3 of the top 12 are D4, 2 are D1, 2 masters, 3 GM, and only 2 are challenger, showing its a lot less productive to get anywhere above an average of diamond or masters by picking up trundle in the current meta). > > Problem is ravenous hunter + taste of blood + doran's shield + akali's own healing. It puts her at an edge over other laners (especially top laners) given they couldn't even trade back with her due to the empowered auto range, Q range, and shroud. > > It'd be a different story maybe if she didn't have the best escape tools and trading tools on top of sustain, but all of that at once is too much. > > Its a serious mess of a kit, everything about it is problematic.. the Q spam is toxic, the empowered auto bonus range is toxic, the shroud mechanic was her biggest problem to begin with pre and post rework, and even gutted its still toxic, the E 2nd cast isn't that much of a problem but the knock back effect is way too good, and the ult giving two charges of untargeted dashes makes her incredibly too slippery and hard to punish/avoid. She needs back to the drawing board cause no matter how weak she is, if an akali is good enough to identify a situation they can still bullshit their way out of unfavorable scenarios, sometimes with a positive outcome. The Problem is not Akali's Healing. There are dozens of other champions with the same amount of healing. This is not the Problem Your Stats Prove NOTHING. Look up Stats for the top 10 players for *ANY FUCKING CHAMPION*. You will see a high winrate in all of them. Stop trying to twist things to your advantage. Stop trying to cherry pick a few people out of context to support your argument.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Tioym,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AQmiZB2W,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2019-05-23T17:53:07.261+0000) > > Who are these Skilled Players you speak of? Any famous akali player? Licwit Perkz TFBlade? >Winrates do not mean EVERYTHING but Let's still have a look because they are more reliable than someone's Opinion. If Skilled Players are **Challengers** then How do you explain this: > **Kennen 4.7% Pick Rate Roughly 60% Winrate** > **Sona 7.2% Pick Rate Roughly 59% Winrate** > **Akali 7.5% Pick Rate Roughly 45% Winrate** > I DON'T SEE A HIGH WINRATE LOL. Ye let's forget the best one **100% PICK AND BAN RATE IN MSI WITH 69% WIN RATE** I DONT SEE HIGH WIN RATE LOL > All you do is Whine how "SKILLED" Akali Players are unstoppable but the Stats don't show it. There are no stats needed, you just need to look at famous akali mains playing the champion and 1v9ing and see how dumb the champion is full stop
> [{quoted}](name=D357R0Y3R,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AQmiZB2W,comment-id=000c0001,timestamp=2019-05-23T21:49:14.831+0000) > > Any famous akali player? > > Licwit > Perkz > TFBlade? > > Ye let's forget the best one > > **100% PICK AND BAN RATE IN MSI WITH 69% WIN RATE** > > I DONT SEE HIGH WIN RATE LOL > > There are no stats needed, you just need to look at famous akali mains playing the champion and 1v9ing and see how dumb the champion is > > full stop You're bullshitting Sir. You cannot cherry Pick a few people and say She is broken Just because these few people are doing really good on her. That's a braindead Analogy. I actually cant see why you even think that argument stands. You're saying: Shaco is braindead broken because Pinkward has a really high winrate on him. Fucking Smart Dude. I wont even try to change your mind, I see no point.
: The issue is less fun and more agency, which directly affects the fun factor (why people find pantheon, yasuo and yi unfun to deal with) In the mid lane match up, akali has all the agency, her opponent has almost zero. Meaning it's all on the akali to fuck up, not on the opponent to outplay them Knowing that no matter what you do, it doesn't matter unless they make a mistake, feels like shit. This stems from a reliable way to last hit and poke simultaneously from range and 2 escapes, strong def spell. Compare her to yasuo, a way to poke from range and cs, multiple escapes, strong def spell. Tbf my issue with shroud was it's size+turret invis, rather than its cooldown. My only other problem, is the reliability of her dmg (mostly point and click, or practically point and click). I acknowledge her E is hard to hit, and like many assassins it's all on dodging a single spell. But generally other assassins can fk up once they get in, it's really hard to fk up when your hitboxes are the size of buildings or aa based.
> [{quoted}](name=TheSingularity,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KW8ahJqy,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-05-24T00:36:59.520+0000) > > The issue is less fun and more agency, which directly affects the fun factor (why people find pantheon, yasuo and yi unfun to deal with) > In the mid lane match up, akali has all the agency, her opponent has almost zero. Meaning it's all on the akali to fuck up, not on the opponent to outplay them > Knowing that no matter what you do, it doesn't matter unless they make a mistake, feels like shit. This stems from a reliable way to last hit and poke simultaneously from range and 2 escapes, strong def spell. Compare her to yasuo, a way to poke from range and cs, multiple escapes, strong def spell. > > > Tbf my issue with shroud was it's size+turret invis, rather than its cooldown. My only other problem, is the reliability of her dmg (mostly point and click, or practically point and click). I acknowledge her E is hard to hit, and like many assassins it's all on dodging a single spell. But generally other assassins can fk up once they get in, it's really hard to fk up when your hitboxes are the size of buildings or aa based. She is unfun to play against, Yes. As I explained a million times: Riot Does not Nerf champions that are unfun to deal with. Where are the Pantheon/Jayce/Kennen/Heimer/Zoe Nerfs. Yes they got nerfed but they still sit at a nice 50% or more winrate. On the other hand there's Akali getting fucked every patch while sitting at 43%. You dont even try to see the problem: She does not win games. Even if she wins lane against you, she will rarely even win the game. Your Argument is: Nerf Akali because I cant play against her. No, Akali does not have full Lane Control. You're thinking of when she was released have you even played against her now? Lmao. She is fucking weak during the first 5 levels to the point where if you don't switch to Inspiration Secondary, you wont even survive the first 5 levels without dying. She is incredibly weak in the Early Levels and as long you don't over-extend she will not be able to do anything against you. You're probably the Lux Player Walking up to Akali trying to auto her infront of her turret then wondering why she Ran you down in Lane and killed you. Change your Playstyle or stop Whining.
: > [{quoted}](name=Tioym,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KW8ahJqy,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-05-23T17:41:08.134+0000) > > You know what else is unfair? No matter how well she does, she cant actually win the game: 43% Winrate Du'uh. You know what else is unfair? Playing against a Dozen other champions (Pantheon/Jayce/Kennen/Heimerdinger) But wait, those champions all actually have more than a 50% winrate meaning they will not only be unfair to play against BUT ALSO win the game as well. Your Argument has no Legs Kind Sir. My argument stands on the tour d'eiffel. At the end of the day this is still a videogame and supposed to be fun. Akali just isn't a champion. She's unreal and doesn't let you play the game and there is no hope in god to beat her especially true the higher you go or she wouldnt maintain a 40%+ banrate and master+ players don't ban champs lightly like low elo does with darius and yasuo. And no the winrate doesn't mean the CHAMPION can't win games. It means the majority the vast vast majority of bad players (99%) cannot win on akali. Because this is where you fall flat, you say "no matter how well she does" but that is just not true. Everyone in i'd say mid diamond+ can win games on her and the better the player becomes the more busted is akali and the more games they win on her. I'm really getting flashbacks here back to when azir/talijah where picked every single game and everyone was like "nah huh azir really bad look winrate. Azir not good champion ok. win games dont cuz winrate look." It was actually so tiring to try to argue with it when people just don't know what a well played azir looked like, hint: you have no hope in god to beat him and can just watch him steamroll the game because you can never interact with him and automatically lost laning phase. Also literally every champion you listed should be removed from the game until reworked. Every single one you listed and you can put akali in the same bucket and then drive a tank over it.
> [{quoted}](name=SuperTopLFBottom,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KW8ahJqy,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-23T18:31:23.265+0000) > > My argument stands on the tour d'eiffel. > > At the end of the day this is still a videogame and supposed to be fun. Akali just isn't a champion. She's unreal and doesn't let you play the game and there is no hope in god to beat her especially true the higher you go or she wouldnt maintain a 40%+ banrate and master+ players don't ban champs lightly like low elo does with darius and yasuo. > > > And no the winrate doesn't mean the CHAMPION can't win games. It means the majority the vast vast majority of bad players (99%) cannot win on akali. Because this is where you fall flat, you say "no matter how well she does" but that is just not true. Everyone in i'd say mid diamond+ can win games on her and the better the player becomes the more busted is akali and the more games they win on her. I'm really getting flashbacks here back to when azir/talijah where picked every single game and everyone was like "nah huh azir really bad look winrate. Azir not good champion ok. win games dont cuz winrate look." It was actually so tiring to try to argue with it when people just don't know what a well played azir looked like, hint: you have no hope in god to beat him and can just watch him steamroll the game because you can never interact with him and automatically lost laning phase. > > > > Also literally every champion you listed should be removed from the game until reworked. Every single one you listed and you can put akali in the same bucket and then drive a tank over it. Hey, Some people will never actually listen to reasoning no matter what. You say "Good Akali Players" can carry games. Where are those good Akali Players? Anyone can Cherry Pick a few people and say "Oh Akali is Broken because these few people have a really good winrate on him." Well Fucking smart, That's like saying Shaco is braindead broken just because Pinkward has a really high winrate on her. You're actually not thinking and I cannot help you if you dont even WANT to think. If you think Good Akali Players ALWAYS do good then let's talk Fucking **Challenger Elo** **Kennen 4.7% Pick Rate Roughly 60% Winrate** **Sona 7.2% Pick Rate Roughly 59% Winrate** **Akali 7.5% Pick Rate Roughly 45% Winrate** Stats DONT mean Everything but they mean a hell of a lot more than anyone's opinion. She is not winning games even in fucking challenger. WHERE ARE THE GOOD AKALI PLAYERS? Are Challengers Also BAD? LOL. Your Argument does not Stand. You're just saying you dont like Akali so she should be nerfed, that's All. **Lmao**
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: Where is this Akali rage comming from?
> [{quoted}](name=D357R0Y3R,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AQmiZB2W,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-05-23T12:36:20.966+0000) > > "oh no!! they're nerfing my champion because of pro play!!" > "nerfing a X% win rate champion" > > Akali is incredibly overpowered when played by a skilled player. Don't try to get statistic, don't try to search further than what it is. Akali mains that played the champion hundreds of times above master have like 60%-70% win rate on her. > > It's like {{champion:268}} over and over again, where people refuse to get good on the champion and blame high elo/pro play for nerfing their broken champion. > This is not going to change, {{champion:268}} was always like that and will remain like that. Akali is an other example of a champion balanced around skilled players > just like how {{champion:35}} {{champion:40}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:83}} {{champion:19}} are balanced around low elo and got nerfed despite never being OP in pro play. > > People need after so many years to understand that in every moba, you have characters balanced around different tiers of MMR. 6.86 Arc Warden in dota2 had 30% win rate and got nerfed because of fucking Alexthefool who had **94% WIN RATE ON HIM** in high MMR. > > If you want to play Akali, don't complain about her nerf and try to become better at her. Who are these Skilled Players you speak of? Winrates do not mean EVERYTHING but Let's still have a look because they are more reliable than someone's Opinion. If Skilled Players are **Challengers** then How do you explain this: **Kennen 4.7% Pick Rate Roughly 60% Winrate** **Sona 7.2% Pick Rate Roughly 59% Winrate** **Akali 7.5% Pick Rate Roughly 45% Winrate** I DON'T SEE A HIGH WINRATE LOL. The Trend should be that her winrate goes up as you go up the Ladder but that's not really happening. There are DOZENS of champions in challenger that have a considerably higher winrate than Akali. Heck she has one of the lowest winrates even in Challenger which is just stupid if you bother to think about it. All you do is Whine how "SKILLED" Akali Players are unstoppable but the Stats don't show it. You're pulling stuff out of your arse. She does not win in Low-Elo and she does not win in High Elo. The Only reason she's actually getting a fucking nerf is because she's Pick/Ban in Pro--Play. That's why Akali Players are Raging: Once again Riot is Balancing the game for Pro-Play and not for the Miliions of players that actually play the damn game.
: > [{quoted}](name=Thorwulfe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KW8ahJqy,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-05-23T12:20:37.414+0000) > > MSI was on an even older patch. The newest shroud nerf wasn’t even seen yet in pro play and now they are hitting her main source of trading/damage. They didn’t even give the nerf a chance to hit pro play before they gut her with this one yet again! It’s outrageous, and unfair. Shit on the main populous more guys. You know what is unfair? Having to play against akali.
> [{quoted}](name=SuperTopLFBottom,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KW8ahJqy,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-05-23T17:36:57.366+0000) > > You know what is unfair? > Having to play against akali. You know what else is unfair? No matter how well she does, she cant actually win the game: 43% Winrate Du'uh. You know what else is unfair? Playing against a Dozen other champions (Pantheon/Jayce/Kennen/Heimerdinger) But wait, those champions all actually have more than a 50% winrate meaning they will not only be unfair to play against BUT ALSO win the game as well. Your Argument has no Legs Kind Sir.
Cevrad (NA)
: I don't care about the people who don't know how to play this champion. And no, I don't think silver players are capable of producing the mechanical prowess it takes to abuse this champion. This win rate says nothing about the power of this champion. Its like saying Ryze isn't completely busted, but the champion is stupid op in the right hands. The people who main this champion, so not TFBlade with his 43% win rate, are sitting around 60-70% win rate in high elo. This champion rolls every matchup in the right hands. So I don't care about her overall winrate, the champion is busted, just as Ryze is an absolute menace. Btw I main the monster called Sejuani that received 2 indirect buffs and 1 direct buff that were all completely unneccesary, and even posted on forums that it was stupid to buff her. By all of your logic, they should buff Akali. Because overall win rate in high elo is all that matters, is the champion winning games regardless of who first times her in ranked? I'm sorry m8, I've seen it first hand in the right hands again and again, the champion is impossible to deal with, its just downright busted. So you are innately wrong.
> [{quoted}](name=Cevrad,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KW8ahJqy,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-05-23T17:10:44.599+0000) > > I don't care about the people who don't know how to play this champion. And no, I don't think silver players are capable of producing the mechanical prowess it takes to abuse this champion. > > This win rate says nothing about the power of this champion. Its like saying Ryze isn't completely busted, but the champion is stupid op in the right hands. The people who main this champion, so not TFBlade with his 43% win rate, are sitting around 60-70% win rate in high elo. This champion rolls every matchup in the right hands. So I don't care about her overall winrate, the champion is busted, just as Ryze is an absolute menace. > > Btw I main the monster called Sejuani that received 2 indirect buffs and 1 direct buff that were all completely unneccesary, and even posted on forums that it was stupid to buff her. By all of your logic, they should buff Akali. Because overall win rate in high elo is all that matters, is the champion winning games regardless of who first times her in ranked? > > I'm sorry m8, I've seen it first hand in the right hands again and again, the champion is impossible to deal with, its just downright busted. So you are innately wrong. You're taking it out of Context. Who gives a shit if 1 out of a 1000 players are doing well. That's like saying Shaco is braindead broken just because Pinkward has a high winrate on him. Your Argument has no legs. I'm surprised to see a High Elo Player forget to think of something so Simple. **My Argument is not to Buff Akali**. My Argument is to stop Nerfing her further than this. Also I will bring Stats up one more time, if I cant satisfy you with this then there's no reasoning with you. Here are some stats from Challenger **Kennen 4.7% Pick Rate Roughly 60% Winrate** **Sona 7.2% Pick Rate Roughly 59% Winrate** **Akali 7.5% Pick Rate Roughly 45% Winrate** SHE IS NOT WINNING ANY GAMES. You cannot argue against these Stats you can check them yourself. She is not winning in Solo-Q EVEN IN CHALLENGER. The Only Place she is doing good is Pro-Play. You cannot compare Pro-Play with Solo-Q Ever. Even in Challenger.
Cevrad (NA)
: Because shes busted. You know what the issue is? When it is showcased in pro play how damn abusive a champion is, it trickles over into Solo Queue. The problem with this champion is the people who play it, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CHAMPION ITSELF. People who play this champion are just bad, the champion is absolutely busted, and its being showcased again and again for the last 6 months in pro play. Its only a matter of time before the mains of this champion pull their head out of their arses and get good at the champion. And then you would release a post asking why the champion wasn't nerfed around this time. This champion absolutely needs damage nerfs and not just utility nerfs that she doesn't even use half the time in pro play. You will never ever see a good Akali cause you are in silver 3, but I am tired of watching this champion stomp games when in the right hands at my elo in D1, I could only imagine in Challenger how frustrating it is to play against this busted crap. And this is after the nerfs. And I get it, you are gonna look at this like an elitist view because you cannot comprehend what you do not see in action. But trust me when I say this, an Akali main who's good most of the time has full control of a game because she has 0 losing matchups. When a champion is seeing nerfs its because there is good reason for it, Riot doesn't exactly like nerfing things unless they are truly busted. And if they are nerfing something this hard, it has to be a massive problem somewhere like in Pro play which will inevitably trickle into D2-Challenger. The sad part is, you have 0 care for anyone but yourself, you don't care about the tens of thousands affected in Diamond+ by good Akali players, you only care about the majority who could legit play anything and climb. Sure remove Akali, personally, gonna be a decent champion after this anyways so don't see the point in removing her :) Besides in Silver noone even uses the passive anyways so what the hell do you care?
> [{quoted}](name=Cevrad,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KW8ahJqy,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-05-23T16:46:45.852+0000) > > Because shes busted. You know what the issue is? When it is showcased in pro play how damn abusive a champion is, it trickles over into Solo Queue. The problem with this champion is the people who play it, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CHAMPION ITSELF. People who play this champion are just bad, the champion is absolutely busted, and its being showcased again and again for the last 6 months in pro play. Its only a matter of time before the mains of this champion pull their head out of their arses and get good at the champion. And then you would release a post asking why the champion wasn't nerfed around this time. This champion absolutely needs damage nerfs and not just utility nerfs that she doesn't even use half the time in pro play. > > You will never ever see a good Akali cause you are in silver 3, but I am tired of watching this champion stomp games when in the right hands at my elo in D1, I could only imagine in Challenger how frustrating it is to play against this busted crap. And this is after the nerfs. > > And I get it, you are gonna look at this like an elitist view because you cannot comprehend what you do not see in action. But trust me when I say this, an Akali main who's good most of the time has full control of a game because she has 0 losing matchups. > > When a champion is seeing nerfs its because there is good reason for it, Riot doesn't exactly like nerfing things unless they are truly busted. And if they are nerfing something this hard, it has to be a massive problem somewhere like in Pro play which will inevitably trickle into D2-Challenger. > > The sad part is, you have 0 care for anyone but yourself, you don't care about the tens of thousands affected in Diamond+ by good Akali players, you only care about the majority who could legit play anything and climb. Sure remove Akali, personally, gonna be a decent champion after this anyways so don't see the point in removing her :) Besides in Silver noone even uses the passive anyways so what the hell do you care? Lol. I'm the one with the Elitist View? Lmao Sorry Man I don't have all day to Que for Ranked unlike you. Who says no one uses her Passive in Silver? Do you actually think no Silver Player can be good? Basically your argument is: Riot is right when they nerf Akali(but you're also the same person who says Riot is shit at balancing) and that No one below Diamond is good at Akali. P.S The Winrates I'm telling you about are Platinum+. Yes Winrate does not mean everything but it does say a hell lot more than anyone's opinion. Also if you think Anyone below Diamond is bad then you're clearly the one with an Elitist view. Not Everyone playing this game has time to dump into hundreds of Ranked games to be get into High Elo. I myself havent played much Ranked in a long while because I don't have any time for it. If you think there are no good players below Diamond then you are extremely delusional. There is no league player who actually agrees with how Riot Balances the game. The only time when players agree with Riot is when they hate the champion being nerfed OR they Main the champion being Buffed. You're not even trying to hide the fact that you want Akali Deleted and I don't think anyone can have a Proper argument against someone like that. If you actually Read the Whole thing I pretty much adressed why People don't like Akali and how all the things they accuse her of have already been taken care of. There's no more Room for Akali to be nerfed without causing her winrate to be dropped below 40% even in high Elo. If you seriously think a champion that CAN NOT win the game deserves continuous nerfs then I don't know what to tell you/
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: you don't need to write an essaie for this Akali had 100% pick/ban rate in MSI in the pro scene therefore she gets nerfed that's how it always worked why is jayce being nerfed? because he had 100% pick/ban in MSI
> [{quoted}](name=D357R0Y3R,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KW8ahJqy,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-23T12:00:41.378+0000) > > you don't need to write an essaie for this > > Akali had 100% pick/ban rate in MSI in the pro scene > > therefore she gets nerfed > > that's how it always worked > > why is jayce being nerfed? because he had 100% pick/ban in MSI I think someone had to go into the fat detail to close off "Akali is broken" Topic once and for all.
Rioter Comments
: All AP champions and {{champion:42}} are invalidated by a {{item:1033}}. While all tanks are invalidated by a {{item:1055}}.
> [{quoted}](name=Colton147147,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XOuxUnYW,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-05-04T00:39:03.066+0000) > > All AP champions and {{champion:42}} are invalidated by a {{item:1033}}. > > While all tanks are invalidated by a {{item:1055}}. The Most Bull shit Reply I've seen in a long while
FireDrizzle (EUNE)
: Where's the Nautilus hotfix?
He is broken Beyond Belief. Simply having your Ultimate on Cooldown should not lead to a 100% Sure-Kill. Stop Giving so much damage to tanks. Remove the Class, It does not work in Solo-Q. Only way it will ever work is when it is broken. A Tank with no Damage is useless and cannot carry himself. A Tank with Damage is oppressing and you cannot Kill him.
: They couldn't just nerf {{champion:92}} {{champion:24}}, but instead the whole bruiser lineup. Good thing toplane can be filled with skillful and interactive champs like {{champion:36}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:75}} {{champion:111}}, keep buffing them up. Next patch they should buff {{champion:85}} {{champion:8}} too.
> [{quoted}](name=5or6stores,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KELjNzEt,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-05-06T23:26:58.719+0000) > > They couldn't just nerf {{champion:92}} {{champion:24}}, but instead the whole bruiser lineup. Good thing toplane can be filled with skillful and interactive champs like {{champion:36}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:75}} {{champion:111}}, keep buffing them up. Next patch they should buff {{champion:85}} {{champion:8}} too. Yep You got it man
Kazekiba (NA)
: Riven is being nerfed in a very significant way AND Conqueror being hit slightly? Yeah she's suffering a major hit if all changes go live, although a minor compensation buff to lower skill floor is attached. CD on E up by 4-2 seconds by rank, Q down by 2-0 seconds.
> [{quoted}](name=Kazekiba,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KELjNzEt,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-05-06T22:00:04.442+0000) > > Riven is being nerfed in a very significant way AND Conqueror being hit slightly? > > Yeah she's suffering a major hit if all changes go live, although a minor compensation buff to lower skill floor is attached. > > CD on E up by 4-2 seconds by rank, Q down by 2-0 seconds. Her E is pretty cancer if you actually look at it. Also whoever thinks Riven has a high Skill Cap is just bullshitting. All you need to do is Get down 1 Combo on her and just spam that whenever you have the chance. Boom you're High Plat/Low Diamond. If you think that Gold Ranked Riven is a playing Riven really well it just means he spammed this 1 Combo in Practice Tool and he now gets to shit on everyone.
: Conqueror From 10% to 8% on PBE
They wont Nerf Riven but instead they will Nerf Her Rune. That way Riven will finally be less Broken and everyone else who uses Conqueror gets Fucked for free :D. Everyone that matters is happy, who cares about other top-lane bruisers anyway Just make sure Riven stays #1. Would Love to See Riven getting Reworked into a Fucking Rock on Summoner's Rift.
: I love that there is a thread saying Naughty needs a nerf. I think he deserves a little spot light, he is such a fun champ to play.
> [{quoted}](name=Smashed Hash,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=jbEkyxEW,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-06T16:37:00.985+0000) > > I love that there is a thread saying Naughty needs a nerf. > > I think he deserves a little spot light, he is such a fun champ to play. Yeah, let's make sure every champion gets to be broken for one month/year. That's the right way to give spotlight and keep the Meta Changing. Riot Approves.
Ilovemobas (EUNE)
: Naut has been really lackluster for some time i am surprised you think alkali, leblanc, vaine and riven are totally fair champions...
> [{quoted}](name=Ilovemobas,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6LJJkWOJ,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-05-06T11:39:30.619+0000) > > Naut has been really lackluster for some time i am surprised you think alkali, leblanc, vaine and riven are totally fair champions... Winrates do not mean Everything but when Nautilus has a 52% winrate and Akali has a 44% winrate it is quite clear which champion is fair and which one is not. Yes Akali is hard to play so people int on her. On the other hand Nautilus is easy as hell to play, a newbie can pick him up and instantly start destroying. I've played vs Nautilus as akali and there is 0 counterplay to Naut's combo. No one is talking about Vayne/Riven/LB in this thread don't change the topic and face it. Naut is braindead broken and needs a NERF.
: > [{quoted}](name=PolarEclipse,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R2haQYME,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-06T07:31:43.017+0000) > > They buff the damage because the sad reality of tanks is that if they are to be viable in solo Q, they need to do damage. > > And of all the champions you mentioned, I'd only agree that naut is a bit strong, but I don't think hes too strong either. > > All in all I don't think any tank (besides naut? and even then I'm unsure) is too overbearing. That’s not true at all. For a tank to be viable in solo que they just need to not die in 0.04 seconds while building full tank like they currently do.
> [{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R2haQYME,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2019-05-06T18:37:23.869+0000) > > That’s not true at all. For a tank to be viable in solo que they just need to not die in 0.04 seconds while building full tank like they currently do. The Later it gets into the game the less useful tanks become. Again, Pantheon has a shit late-game but that doesn't stop him from Winning the game as long as he Plays to End Quickly.
: Have you played back when tanks had no damage and before cdr was everywhere? They get ignored in the teamfight, everyone would deliberately just dogpile the backrow to kill the enemy carries first, then proceed to shove through the towers; because the tanks couldn't contribute enough to be a threat, nor have enough output to waveclear. Similarly it also railroaded tanks to being support, as most tanks couldn't farm fast enough to keep up with most fighters top lane and jungle. However I agree they haven't needed more damage this season since they already got such buffs last season.
> [{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R2haQYME,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-05-06T15:21:29.162+0000) > > Have you played back when tanks had no damage and before cdr was everywhere? > They get ignored in the teamfight, everyone would deliberately just dogpile the backrow to kill the enemy carries first, then proceed to shove through the towers; because the tanks couldn't contribute enough to be a threat, nor have enough output to waveclear. Similarly it also railroaded tanks to being support, as most tanks couldn't farm fast enough to keep up with most fighters top lane and jungle. > However I agree they haven't needed more damage this season since they already got such buffs last season. I Agree, Tanks do need damage to function in Solo-Q but I've said it again and again, they do too much damage for how tanky they are. At this point you can either nerf their AP Ratios OR Reduce the Base Stats that make them so tanky even when they dont build any defensive item.
: I agree; make {{champion:3}} 100-0 with his Q again.
> [{quoted}](name=Colton147147,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R2haQYME,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-05-06T18:04:54.022+0000) > > I agree; make {{champion:3}} 100-0 with his Q again. Yeah because that was the whole point of this post right? xD
FireDrizzle (EUNE)
: Nautilus is too strong as suport. I would like too see Thresh nerfed before him because he is always op.
> [{quoted}](name=FireDrizzle,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R2haQYME,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-05-06T10:08:59.173+0000) > > Nautilus is too strong as suport. I would like too see Thresh nerfed before him because he is always op. Any Champion Riot wants to Push in Pro-Play will never get nerfed. At this point it's impossible to Balance Solo-Que and Competitive play in the same Patch, so may as well make a seperate patch for Pro-play.
: They buffed Singed because they nerfed Dark Seal. It wasn't just for shits and giggles.
> [{quoted}](name=Nik Nikerson,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R2haQYME,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-05-06T07:57:43.508+0000) > > They buffed Singed because they nerfed Dark Seal. It wasn't just for shits and giggles. Dark seal was a broken item. They "Fixed" Dark Seal which did Hit Singed but in a Healthy way. That's like saying "Oh Deathcap was nerfed a little so now we need to buff every mage so they are not affected by it." The Reason it was nerfed was because it was OP, which means Mages who built it were OP and needed the nerf. (Dont worry Riot wont ever Nerf DC lmao) But yeah the buff on Singed wasn't that big so not a big deal Ig.
: They buff the damage because the sad reality of tanks is that if they are to be viable in solo Q, they need to do damage. And of all the champions you mentioned, I'd only agree that naut is a bit strong, but I don't think hes too strong either. All in all I don't think any tank (besides naut? and even then I'm unsure) is too overbearing.
> [{quoted}](name=PolarEclipse,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R2haQYME,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-06T07:31:43.017+0000) > > They buff the damage because the sad reality of tanks is that if they are to be viable in solo Q, they need to do damage. > > And of all the champions you mentioned, I'd only agree that naut is a bit strong, but I don't think hes too strong either. > > All in all I don't think any tank (besides naut? and even then I'm unsure) is too overbearing. Honestly I agree, to be viable in solo-Q you need some sort of damage but you cant deny that Tanks are not supposed to have this amount of damage. You may as well rip the Class Apart at this point because it does not work in Solo-Q. Just because you cannot carry the game as a tank does not mean you should be Over-powered. With a good team backing you up, Tank is probably the best class in the game but that rarely happens in Solo-Q you are right. The Class does not work and Riot is just Forcing it. Honestly I'd like to see a Class Rework for Tanks where they cut their base stats a little and give all of them a bit of damage. This way, they can have damage sure but atleast they wont be tanky despite building no actual Defense. That's what the Problem is: Tank goes full AP but is Inherently Tanky due to Base Stats so now the Tank can 1-shot you AND Tank a lot of damage. Have you played against AP Cho? 4000 HP and if he hits a Single Q, you're dead. His Q will do 500-800 Damage to you AND Knock-up meaning a 100% Kill Chance. You don't think Tahm is OP? Try Laning against him. At early levels he out-trades you so hard that you question why you even tried to Trade. You Literally cannot trade against that champion or you just lose. The Only "Counter-play" you have against him is to sit under turret for the first 20 Minutes of the game so you don't Int vs him. You only beat him during the Mid-Late Game.
Lovelle (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Tioym,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sAsadMLp,comment-id=00170000,timestamp=2019-04-26T02:12:20.990+0000) > > Darius is actually not that strong right now. Who says Darius is God-TIer? He's not bad but he's not nearly as good as he used to be. Assuming you're talking about 3v3, Darius sits comfortably at the top of the food chain with champs like Taric, Kayn, Urgot, Yasuo, Jax, Poppy, Garen, Teemo and Lux. He's not as strong on SR because you guys actually have enough people on your team to keep him in control. However, he is an actual monster on TT and Riot is about to buff him again. This is why I was saying I wish Riot still did map specific nerfs, but in the recent years they've just stopped caring about anything that isn't competitive SR.
> [{quoted}](name=Lovelle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sAsadMLp,comment-id=001700000000,timestamp=2019-04-26T12:36:55.155+0000) > > Assuming you're talking about 3v3, Darius sits comfortably at the top of the food chain with champs like Taric, Kayn, Urgot, Yasuo, Jax, Poppy, Garen, Teemo and Lux. He's not as strong on SR because you guys actually have enough people on your team to keep him in control. However, he is an actual monster on TT and Riot is about to buff him again. > > This is why I was saying I wish Riot still did map specific nerfs, but in the recent years they've just stopped caring about anything that isn't competitive SR. Definitely broken in TT. I was talking about SR.
Rioter Comments
: Why was Nautilus forced so hard to be the #1 support?
Basically if you are bad at the game, just pick AP/Aftershock Nautilus and you Auto-win the lane if not the whole game. Riot introduced a Champion for new players who dont know how to play the game to win every game and feel good about themselves.
Cevrad (NA)
: Yep Hecarim surpassed them in toxicity, he got nerfed. You do understand it takes good players to do really well consistently on Riven and Vayne?
> [{quoted}](name=Cevrad,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sAsadMLp,comment-id=0016,timestamp=2019-04-24T10:01:42.723+0000) > > Yep Hecarim surpassed them in toxicity, he got nerfed. You do understand it takes good players to do really well consistently on Riven and Vayne? Riven and Vayne are busted. Riven has a high winrate even in Low-Elo, and trust me there are no "good players who do consistently well" in bronze unless they are smurfing.
y0r1ck (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=VoyVolao,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sAsadMLp,comment-id=00180000,timestamp=2019-04-24T19:19:54.685+0000) > > Are you kidding, right? > https://champion.gg/champion/Hecarim/Jungle > 54% win rate ONLY in jungle. In toplane has almost 52%. > He's the most toxic champ atm, and has 0 counterplay. "Has 0 counterplay." That is what I like to call, daft. Slows exist, use them, counter movement speed buffs. Healing reduction exists, use it, counter healing. To say he doesn't have enough counterplay might open a debate, and I'd agree with you that he doesn't have enough counterplay. To say he has 0, is daft. @Mods I didn't call this person daft, just what he said
> [{quoted}](name=y0r1ck,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sAsadMLp,comment-id=001800000000,timestamp=2019-04-24T22:02:17.544+0000) > > "Has 0 counterplay." That is what I like to call, daft. > > Slows exist, use them, counter movement speed buffs. > > Healing reduction exists, use it, counter healing. > > To say he doesn't have enough counterplay might open a debate, and I'd agree with you that he doesn't have enough counterplay. To say he has 0, is daft. > > @Mods I didn't call this person daft, just what he said Hecarim kept getting buffs patch by patch that went unnoticed to the point where everyone realized: wait shit this champ is also broken. He deserved the nerfs he got. Also not every champion in the game has Crowd Control. For many ADCs he ACTUALLY has 0 Counterplay. So A what a Hecarim went 3/1 in Lane? Why should he get to 1 shot the ADC? (I don't play ADC btw)
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Tioym

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