Asudurga (NA)
: Problem is it's a smart idea, Riot seems to have an allergy to those...
> [{quoted}](name=Asudurga,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=6ZPzI6f6,comment-id=00040002,timestamp=2019-08-25T14:50:29.902+0000) > > Problem is it's a smart idea, Riot seems to have an allergy to those... Damnit, you've found the flaw in the plan.
floo (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Toþykachu,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=6ZPzI6f6,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-08-24T14:21:36.858+0000) > > With all the negative press going around of Riot's greed this would be an insanely smart PR move and help the planet. There is literally no downsides to doing this. You think mainstream media would inform people about anything that isn't drama or already so public you can't be the one to miss out? Pewdiepie was in every mainstream media with that ridiculous anti semitic scandal, but when he made multiple charity donations and livestreams, there was not a single word about it anywhere.
> [{quoted}](name=floo,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=6ZPzI6f6,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-08-24T15:56:32.524+0000) > > You think mainstream media would inform people about anything that isn't drama or already so public you can't be the one to miss out? > Pewdiepie was in every mainstream media with that ridiculous anti semitic scandal, but when he made multiple charity donations and livestreams, there was not a single word about it anywhere. The dedicated fan base that are getting annoyed at Riot for Little Legends, skins going to popular champions whilst others have gone years without a skin and most recently their 'eternals' and they're the ones that would also see the good in Riot donating money to charity.
: Save the planet
With all the negative press going around of Riot's greed this would be an insanely smart PR move and help the planet. There is literally no downsides to doing this.
4th3t0s (NA)
: Pick literally any hard engage support and she can't do a damn thing; she wins against poke, not everything. As a side note, whether support, top, or jungle, {{champion:78}} shuts her down almost harder than she does for {{champion:64}}.
> [{quoted}](name=OnlyHueman,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8s7t7HHI,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-08-23T03:41:11.435+0000) > > Pick literally any hard engage support and she can't do a damn thing; she wins against poke, not everything. As a side note, whether support, top, or jungle, {{champion:78}} shuts her down almost harder than she does for {{champion:64}}. That's the thing. It's not a guaranteed counter due to the rest of the state of LoL. Enemy jungler camps the Yuumi lane whilst yours doesn't? Yuumi gets through lane for free and outscales you. ADC picks something with plenty of safety, such as Ezreal or Sivir? They counter hard engage. Your ADC isn't particularly good and doesn't follow up on your engage? You can't kill them yourself as a Nautilus or a Leona. The only counter to Yuumi, is to hope the enemy team doesn't know how to properly play around her and that's not exactly a reliable strategy. The only thing I've found that works to some success, is picking Sona support and have a scaling advantage yourself.
: all reworks are objectively better than their predecessors. so yeah lots of a muchness here.
> [{quoted}](name=preternatural,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OHgA8igA,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-08-22T09:44:03.031+0000) > > all reworks are objectively better than their predecessors. > so yeah lots of a muchness here. This is true! Galio's rework left him with a lower pick rate AND a lower win rate! He has required extensive attention from the balance team ever since he obtained his rework and is currently one of the worst champions you could possibly play. Objectively, this is much better than the niche champion he was before, with a loyal player base, healthy win rate and un-problematic pick rate.
: Jayce MID is in a terrible state now, and he is unplayable as lower skill champs do more damage
He's too strong in the top lane when he's strong, as he's an excellent bully to melee champions. Riot needs to work out how they can push him into the mid lane where his kit is infinitely more healthy.
: Is It Just Me or Is Hextech Broken Right Now?
Especially since you only need 2 of them and a lot of hextech units fit well in with other classes too.
: Suicide threat in pre-game lobby
I believe if you called a suicide hotline yourself and told them of the situation, they’d potentially have the means of tracking this individual down. If they can reach him then the individual will have to spend 48 hours in protective care to either get the help they need and if they weren’t serious, learn why making such claims is an awful thing to do.
: > [{quoted}](name=Dynikus,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=FjqBbXKW,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-08-20T04:38:07.701+0000) > > While what lux did wasn't okay, you were still provoking them throughout the game. Asking for reports is also seen as a form of harassment, and is punishable as well. You didn't receive a chat restriction for what the lux said, you received it for what you said. So we are supposed to just be verbally abused and insulted and have our lived threatened and stay quiet....I remember times like this in the history books lol. Please..tell me what I said that was punishable?
> [{quoted}](name=Luclinraider,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=FjqBbXKW,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-08-20T04:50:55.083+0000) > > So we are supposed to just be verbally abused and insulted and have our lived threatened and stay quiet....I remember times like this in the history books lol. > > Please..tell me what I said that was punishable? Basically. Despite being known for having one of the most toxic communities on the entire internet and even though they claim they want a less toxic player base, the sad truth is they simply don’t care and aren’t actively doing anything from preventing toxic behaviour.
: She sooo needs Buffs. Her PLants are jokes
> [{quoted}](name=XXXMurderPenguin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NyklrmYW,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-08-20T01:09:53.161+0000) > > She sooo needs Buffs. Her PLants are jokes The champ is one of the most gigatoxic champions in the game. Unless they rework to function solely as a mid laner, she should never be even remotely viable.
: RIOT ARE BUFFING YASUO AND KINDRED
It’s like they’ve completely lost track of the idea that some champions deserve to be B tier, at best, because they’re so utterly unenjoyable to play against. Yet they see Zyra, Kindred and Yasuo below a 50% win rate and immediately try and buff them, forgetting that no one enjoys playing against these champions when they’re meta as they completely choke you out of the game.
: "We won't make video about rework champion " What you mean is we YOU are too lazy to actually work.
What's the point when in a year he'll have half his kit taken away and make the rework look completely insane. Just look at Aatrox, Irelia and Akali no longer having prominent features that they do in the spotlight.
: >they have never been changed because they bring in the big bucks of LCS Could you please provide list of how many assassins is being played in proplay compared to other classes? Also, you will say something like "No need to play them all, these few can provide enough flashy plays", which is of course subjective and any good play, be it good Azirs R, Sejus R, majority of allins by adcs, good pick by any skirmish, good engages could be called flashy play... Here is incomplete list for ya, classes might be little bit mixed up, but it's ok. Bruisers - {{champion:266}} {{champion:164}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:240}} {{champion:2}} {{champion:58}} {{champion:41}} {{champion:126}} Tanks - {{champion:201}} {{champion:113}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:223}} {{champion:79}}{{champion:12}} {{champion:106}} Adcs - {{champion:81}} {{champion:498}} {{champion:145}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:15}} {{champion:18}} {{champion:42}} {{champion:110}} Assassins - {{champion:84}} {{champion:517}} {{champion:246}} {{champion:7}} {{champion:60}} {{champion:555}} Mages - {{champion:268}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:8}} Enchanter - {{champion:350}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:497}}
Can people please stop using pro play as an absolute indication of strength in solo queue. They are two completely different ball parks. Pro play promotes team play and as such certain champions flourish, whereas solo queue is just that. Solo. That's why Yuumi can be pick/ban in pro play and noticeably weaker in standard play and Riven can be non existent in pro play and the strongest in solo queue.
: TFT RNG ITEMS????????
Sorry, the very intelligent gaming company Riot Games have decided that this is a feature they want to keep in the game, even though literally no one who plays TFT thinks is fun or enjoyable, the incredible minds that brought you Yuumi and the Akali rework, have decided that this is what they think is best for the game.
Kazekiba (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Toþykachu,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=sBGlZjr4,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2019-08-09T15:50:43.986+0000) > > The newest Pokémon games, Sword and Shield, have announced that not all Pokémon will be available. You can pay for a service to store and transfer you Pokémon from the 3DS games and Pokémon Go, but not all Pokémon will be compatible with the newest games. This is confusing as there is no good reason for them not to. The 3DS was able to store over 800 of them and still the entire game took up less than half the space of a 3DS cartridge, so if your first thought is "well there's going to be over 1,000 of them at this point" it really doesn't mean a whole lot. > > They are also removing other beloved features, such as the Battle Frontier, Mega Evolutions and Z-Moves for a new gimmick called 'Gigantamaxing'. > > They are also releasing a second mobile game called 'Pokémon masters' as well as continuous updates to Pokémon Go. GameFreak, to be fair, actually has nothing to do with Pokemon Go. That is entirely Niantic's game, with license rights from The Pokemon Company, International (tPCi). Pokemon isn't even owned by GameFreak; GameFreak is owned by tPC, along with Creatures. I dont think TPC is part of Nintendo but it could be, I'd have to check.
> [{quoted}](name=Kazekiba,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=sBGlZjr4,comment-id=000000020000,timestamp=2019-08-09T16:47:42.839+0000) > > GameFreak, to be fair, actually has nothing to do with Pokemon Go. That is entirely Niantic's game, with license rights from The Pokemon Company, International (tPCi). > Pokemon isn't even owned by GameFreak; GameFreak is owned by tPC, along with Creatures. I dont think TPC is part of Nintendo but it could be, I'd have to check. Yep, but in general, the focus of the franchise seems to be going more into mobile. The Pokémon Company is owned by Nintendo, Game Freak and Creatures Inc. It's unknown how much is owned by each company, though it's likely Nintendo owns the majority, since when Game Freak went to Nintendo in the 90's to help them, they were a very small and unknown company whilst Nintendo was huge.
: This comparison isn't very good I dunno what pokemon games are being stripped down further and further or how they only focus on phone games
> [{quoted}](name=Jimmy Rustles,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=sBGlZjr4,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-09T15:11:51.658+0000) > > This comparison isn't very good > > I dunno what pokemon games are being stripped down further and further or how they only focus on phone games The newest Pokémon games, Sword and Shield, have announced that not all Pokémon will be available. You can pay for a service to store and transfer you Pokémon from the 3DS games and Pokémon Go, but not all Pokémon will be compatible with the newest games. This is confusing as there is no good reason for them not to. The 3DS was able to store over 800 of them and still the entire game took up less than half the space of a 3DS cartridge, so if your first thought is "well there's going to be over 1,000 of them at this point" it really doesn't mean a whole lot. They are also removing other beloved features, such as the Battle Frontier, Mega Evolutions and Z-Moves for a new gimmick called 'Gigantamaxing'. They are also releasing a second mobile game called 'Pokémon masters' as well as continuous updates to Pokémon Go.
: What's up with the lovers?
Well they can't seem to decide if they want them to be strong individually in their own right, or strong when together. They can't have it both ways.
: Caitlyn's range advantage is only temporary for when she hits someone with her net or someone steps on her trap. The only people who situationally outrange Jinx are Kog'Maw with his W active, Twitch his his R active and the aforementioned Caitlyn. With her rockets activated, Jinx has a permanent range of 700, 50 higher than Caitlyn and 39 higher than Tristana (at level 18). Only Kindred has a higher range at 750 (with 25 stacks which is very unlikely to occur over the course of the game). It's a combination of her entire kit that makes her strong. You can make this argument about anyone. You could remove Garen's W and he'd be mediocre at most. If killing her was as easily as people are making it out to be then her win rate simply wouldn't be this high.
In a typical team fight Caitlyn will auto from her base range, not her trap range. Your logic, again makes no sense. Every single steroid would be OP if it was permanent. Let's make Kayle R, Trynd R and Kog W permanent whilst we're at it.
: > [{quoted}](name=Toþykachu,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=rcXtbdQw,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-08-07T13:58:53.347+0000) > > They'll likely never remove ARAM. There's a huge population of players that play ONLY ARAM. Enough to the point that sales would be hit quite hard if they removed it. We said the same thing about TT just a month ago. Where we at now
> [{quoted}](name=Eternal Torment,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=rcXtbdQw,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-08-07T14:43:39.339+0000) > > We said the same thing about TT just a month ago. Where we at now TT really isn't as popular as ARAM. It's not even close. If it was/ever would be they'd scrap it too.
: Game modes won't come back, here is why:
They'll likely never remove ARAM. There's a huge population of players that play ONLY ARAM. Enough to the point that sales would be hit quite hard if they removed it.
: Bruh, "Highest permanent range of all ADC"? Caitlyn has 125 more range than jinx and if you count Cait passive, she gets up to 1300. Her trap is easier to counter than Caitlyn, any mage or assassin can do it. If you want support to help, you need to be alive first instead of getting burst down by assassin and mage. Anyway, the range does contribute to her safety but any champion that excels at picking can cover it very quickly. It wasn't the range that makes her strong, it was the combination of range and bonus move speed/attack speed from passive that makes her strong. Without that passive, she is mediocre at most.
Caitlyn's range advantage is only temporary for when she hits someone with her net or someone steps on her trap. The only people who situationally outrange Jinx are Kog'Maw with his W active, Twitch his his R active and the aforementioned Caitlyn. With her rockets activated, Jinx has a permanent range of 700, 50 higher than Caitlyn and 39 higher than Tristana (at level 18). Only Kindred has a higher range at 750 (with 25 stacks which is very unlikely to occur over the course of the game). It's a combination of her entire kit that makes her strong. You can make this argument about anyone. You could remove Garen's W and he'd be mediocre at most. If killing her was as easily as people are making it out to be then her win rate simply wouldn't be this high.
Pika Fox (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=MorgManBasher,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8d2ARl6a,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-08-06T13:41:04.383+0000) > > Yeah, that champion that see's pro play constantly as well as tons of play in high ELO while also being a low skill cap champion that low ELO also does well with, definitely didn't need nerfed. lol > > Insane playrate/winrate at all ranks and pro play And is hard countered by naut, ali, leona, pyke, thresh, blitz.... Anyone with hard cc engage or pull.
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8d2ARl6a,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2019-08-06T13:43:31.337+0000) > > And is hard countered by naut, ali, leona, pyke, thresh, blitz.... Anyone with hard cc engage or pull. And was actually not hard countered by them as she became extremely tanky with aftershock and was rarely in range for them to hit their spells.
: But see here: Jinx has no escape while all the other does. So if she got in a situation where she can't peel off the pursuer, she is dead meat.
She has the highest permanent range of all ADC's meaning she's least likely to be in range of getting in danger out of all ADC's. She also has her traps to make getting to her harder and also has a support to make killing her as difficult as possible.
: > [{quoted}](name=Toþykachu,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EJx9x5aL,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-04T14:40:22.115+0000) > > Implying that Jinx is inherently bad against tanks? She's really not. Vayne just does better into them. Crit ADC's inherently destroy tanks and Jinx is no exception. With the bonus attack speed in her mini gun form she shreds through them. shes bad against frozen heart on tanks {{item:3110}}
But Jinx isn't affected significantly more than other ADC's by this item. Caitlyn, Xayah, Tristana etc. are also effected by this item, but you wouldn't say their late games are necessarily weak either.
: > [{quoted}](name=Toþykachu,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EJx9x5aL,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-04T14:24:25.624+0000) > > Jinx's late game is 10x more impactful than Vayne. Her increased range, CC and AoE make her one of if not the single best ADC when it comes to late game. The only time Vayne is better is vs several tanks, but since they're almost non existant nowadays Jinx all the way. > > Jinx absolutely can kite like Vayne if she gets a single take down, has different types of peel, that in some way is much better. Her traps can zone several targets at once instead of just one like Vayne's E. the people who still play tanks are laughing right now that someone would dare to pick jinx into them {{champion:89}} myself included
Implying that Jinx is inherently bad against tanks? She's really not. Vayne just does better into them. Crit ADC's inherently destroy tanks and Jinx is no exception. With the bonus attack speed in her mini gun form she shreds through them.
: > [{quoted}](name=Antenora,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EJx9x5aL,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-08-04T13:15:13.700+0000) > > Imagine banning Vayne when Riven, Zed, Pyke, Jinx, Draven are all 100x stronger. LOL ZED? JINX? Jinx is strong but she cant kite like vayne, cant do true damage like vayne, has much less self peel than vayne and ZED? The assassin that despite taking skill to master, Zed one tricks are branching off to other champs because of how shitty he feels to play? I mean Pyke and Riven sure, and if the Draven's good Sure BUT ZED AND JINX? At least fuckin say {{champion:91}} so i can take you more seriously
Jinx's late game is 10x more impactful than Vayne. Her increased range, CC and AoE make her one of if not the single best ADC when it comes to late game. The only time Vayne is better is vs several tanks, but since they're almost non existant nowadays Jinx all the way. Jinx absolutely can kite like Vayne if she gets a single take down, has different types of peel, that in some way is much better. Her traps can zone several targets at once instead of just one like Vayne's E.
: NB won't be made permanent because the player base dropped off on that game mode once the quests were gone replacing one dead game mode with another won't do them any favors
> [{quoted}](name=MordridtheBlack,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Lws74iqk,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-03T19:15:44.255+0000) > > NB won't be made permanent because the player base dropped off on that game mode once the quests were gone > > replacing one dead game mode with another won't do them any favors Yeah, the playerbase dropped off after being forced to play almost ten games of the game mode every day to complete all the missions in a game mode that was never intended to be grindy. I can't think of a single reason why that would lead to burn out at the end. *thinking*
: > [{quoted}](name=Toþykachu,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Me1sLuOX,comment-id=000200000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-03T14:57:14.686+0000) > > Because we are talking about battle mages, control mages and high dps mages. These are the champions he's directly competing with. Aurelion Sol's late game is not strong by any margin. There are control mages out there with higher damage AND higher zone control, look at Anivia, Azir and Orianna. > > The only time Aurelion is hitting 5 people at once, is if they're clumped together, and there are many champions that can damage 5 champions, CC them at a consistent rate. Again, look at Azir, Anivia and Karthus, all of which do a LOT more damage. > > So let's forget about his late game, because Aurelion is absolutely not a late game champion, he is an early to mid game champion, who focuses on getting his teams ahead with his roams and stacks HP items and mows through teams, taking little damage in return, before they're able to build the items to bring him down. > > Now you're somewhat contradicting yourself when you say damage is not the only factor when it comes to a late game champion, which is true, as you're ignoring some of the buffs to his main utility spell - his Q. With these Aurelion Sol changes, his late game damage is the only thing that's going down. His Q is getting buffed to be a lot stronger late game, with a lower cooldown and higher travel speed. > > Aurelion Sol is already very predictable. He's going to try and hit you with his stars whenever possible. Which is still going to be the same now? At this point, we are getting nowhere. We keep having different views on this topic, and it seems like it's not going to change. I respect your opinion, and hopefully you can respect mine. Thank you for your valued input on this post.
> [{quoted}](name=TheMojoKiller,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Me1sLuOX,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-03T15:03:55.768+0000) > > At this point, we are getting nowhere. We keep having different views on this topic, and it seems like it's not going to change. I respect your opinion, and hopefully you can respect mine. Thank you for your valued input on this post. Of course I respect your opinion. I hope that the changes, whether good or bad, don't stop you from enjoying the champion ^_^
: > [{quoted}](name=Toþykachu,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Me1sLuOX,comment-id=0006000100000000,timestamp=2019-08-03T14:44:03.795+0000) > > When the thing that he is doing is toxic? Is Tahm Kench being able to devour allies iconic to his kit and identity? Yes. Is it also so toxic that his had to be nerfed insanely hard for competitive, leaving him in a completely useless state as a support for the rest of us for so long? Also yes. Aurelion Sol is sat in a similar boat. His ability to constantly shove the wave and instantly look to roam is completely unmatched, inflating his win rate by a huge margin by players who are able to properly identify the optimal times to roam. With these tweaks they're able to adjust it accordingly so he no longer instantly clears a wave, roams to a side lane and then uses the increased mobility to get back to lane without losing a significant amount of gold. By removing the passive speed and increasing its cooldown, a bad roam is now properly punishable. This means that later on, if this turns out to be a huge nerf, they are able to actually increase his damage and buff him in more meaningful ways. But that is the thing though, his early game waveclear is unmatched, and OP, I know. But the beauty of it all is that it has counterplay! You can punish Aurelion Sol from pushing. The fact that Aurelion Sol shoves waves puts him at risk of getting ganked. His pushing can also punished by the laner themselves if they can gap-close him, cc-him, or make him waste mana on them instead of pushing. Tahm's W is his identity and saving allies was strong, and all he had to do was be near them to save them. But that isn't the same case here man, if you let him push, he gets to roam. If you punish him from trying to push, he has to stay and clear waves, or gets killed from being out of positioned or just being ganked. That's why I love this guy so much, it's because he's in no terms of being absolutely broken, or too op to the point where there is no counterplay.
Is it really that easy to punish him though? Most of the time, after he pushes the wave, he backs off and looks for a roam, only returning when the enemy mid has pushed it back out. I have played the Fizz matchup a fair bit and I can honestly say it is usually a coin flip as to who wins. If he tries to fight you, he is getting hit by 6 or more minions at once and early game they hurt and if you have exhaust or ignite, usually ends up with me winning. Very few champions can fight anyone in a full minion wave early game and those that can end up being the few champions that he can actually outscale later on into the game. I agree that Aurelion is far from broken and has a pretty fair and balanced kit and I really do wish they'd hit his E in a meaniingful way so that they can buff his damage because personally I don't really want to play a champion who's main strength is roaming around the map, but I don't think these changes are particularly damning to his identity, but only time will tell as to whether or not these changes are good or bad. The truth is either one of us could be right and we have no real way of knowing until the patch gets shipped.
: > [{quoted}](name=Toþykachu,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Me1sLuOX,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-03T09:54:19.153+0000) > > I said he has **one of** the lowest damage outputs, **late game**, out of all **mages**. Not in general. You are severely underestimating the presence of other battle mages in the game. Karthus, Swain, Anivia etc. can all pull off constant AoE damage late game, with Anivia and Karthus doing a LOT more damage than Aurelion can ever wish to dish out late game. Vlad, Cass and Ryze have the ability to 1v5 late game a LOT easier than Aurelion Sol, as A Sol is prone to getting instantly turned on and killed if he's seen to be alone. > > From the videos I've seen so far, his early pushing power is still very strong and doesn't burn through your mana in the same wasy as current Aurelion Sol. He doesn't necessarily need this movement speed now, if he has the ability to use his E from much further away? It just means he is punished more for a bad roam, which is seems only fair in the long run, as this has been a problem with balancing Aurelion for a while now. > > As mentioned previously, these changes are not supposed to be a nerf, but an adjustment to his kit to allow him to fit more comfortably in the game, meaning they don't have to keep nerfing him, because his win rate reaches absurd levels when put behind someone who knows what they're doing. (A win rate that stems almost entirely from his roaming potential). ?? Why are we comparing Aurelion Sol to Anvia, Karthus, Cass, and etc. a solid point to saying how weak he is. Again, damage alone isn't the solo determining factor in what makes strong in the late-game. Is he super crazy strong when it comes to damage? No, but that isn't the thing here. Even though they are all battle-mages, they bring something different to the table, and that's what I'm saying about Aurelion. You shouldn't be saying he's weak because he isn't killing people instantly with his stars, because that isn't him. What no other battle-mage brings that Aurelion Sol does is the base ability to potentially damage up to 5 people at once, zone people out of fights, grant cc to the team (assuming you get rylais), at a consistent rate, as long as his W is up. What I'm saying is that it's the damage and utility Aurelion Sol brings to the team that no one complains when a team gets an Aurelion Sol because of the absolute potential to be a carry in teamfights. Now, no matter how you or Riot say it, this a nerf to his damage. It also makes him more predictable in fights. For starters, once you right past mid-game, that AP scaling on his passive will be weaker than his live. His w not being able to have full up-time at the point takes him away from having full dps WILL make a difference, because while positioning yourself right made you do more damage live, but the pbe w restricts you from constatly dps the team, because you'll just be squishy burst-mage not being able to have that power like you used to. B But wait, stars move faster! But wait, you can have it up every 2 seconds! Again and again, his scaling was nerfed late game, and removing the complete uptime of his W does remove his battle-mage like kit, and those 2 seconds are crucial. The stars "being faster" isn't going to be stronger at this point or make up for it.
Because we are talking about battle mages, control mages and high dps mages. These are the champions he's directly competing with. Aurelion Sol's late game is not strong by any margin. There are control mages out there with higher damage AND higher zone control, look at Anivia, Azir and Orianna. The only time Aurelion is hitting 5 people at once, is if they're clumped together, and there are many champions that can damage 5 champions, CC them at a consistent rate. Again, look at Azir, Anivia and Karthus, all of which do a LOT more damage. So let's forget about his late game, because Aurelion is absolutely not a late game champion, he is an early to mid game champion, who focuses on getting his teams ahead with his roams and stacks HP items and mows through teams, taking little damage in return, before they're able to build the items to bring him down. Now you're somewhat contradicting yourself when you say damage is not the only factor when it comes to a late game champion, which is true, as you're ignoring some of the buffs to his main utility spell - his Q. With these Aurelion Sol changes, his late game damage is the only thing that's going down. His Q is getting buffed to be a lot stronger late game, with a lower cooldown and higher travel speed. Aurelion Sol is already very predictable. He's going to try and hit you with his stars whenever possible. Which is still going to be the same now?
: > [{quoted}](name=Toþykachu,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Me1sLuOX,comment-id=00060001,timestamp=2019-08-03T09:43:26.178+0000) > > Have you ever considered that maybe these abilities are toxic and should be removed to free up space within the champions pool for more meaningful buffs? Aurelion Sol could literally out push every single champion at level 1 and roam from level 3. You could not play aggressively in a side lane, nor could you invade the enemy jungler because Aurelion Sol would always arrive before anyone else. He's had significant power removed from the rest of his kit for a while now, such as a weaker slow on his ultimate, lower damage and weaker base stats. > > Do you really believe a champion should be completely terrible in every metric so long as they're able to cling onto their one toxic niche that forces them to be this way? By all means you can keep Aatrox's revive, but say goodbye to a lot of his damage, sustain and durability. Since when was being good at something was considered toxic, especially in the case of Aurelion Sol? His wave-clear and roaming early game is fucking strong when you pull it off, yes, but that's IF you pull it off. Aurelion Sol doesn't have that free reign when him and his laner reach level 3. You would know as if you were versing a Fizz, he would go all in on you if you were pushing and wave-clearing, because he can gap-close and burst hard. Something a lot of champions have, which who they can punish Asol if they play the matchup right. The enemy jungler could play around engaging on Asol when he tries to roam, because it can be predictable. This is also considering the fact that he could fail his roams due to lanes being attentive to his MIA. Long story short, he is strong at what he does, but he has CLEAR weaknesses and windows of opportunity of punishment. Like tell me, how is being good at something, yet being able to be completely punishable, toxic? Also, "one toxic niche" is an exaggeration, while they are completely changing the way he's played, he's not hanging on to one toxic niche, he's hanging on to everything the champion is SUPPOSED to be. And that is in no way toxic.
When the thing that he is doing is toxic? Is Tahm Kench being able to devour allies iconic to his kit and identity? Yes. Is it also so toxic that his had to be nerfed insanely hard for competitive, leaving him in a completely useless state as a support for the rest of us for so long? Also yes. Aurelion Sol is sat in a similar boat. His ability to constantly shove the wave and instantly look to roam is completely unmatched, inflating his win rate by a huge margin by players who are able to properly identify the optimal times to roam. With these tweaks they're able to adjust it accordingly so he no longer instantly clears a wave, roams to a side lane and then uses the increased mobility to get back to lane without losing a significant amount of gold. By removing the passive speed and increasing its cooldown, a bad roam is now properly punishable. This means that later on, if this turns out to be a huge nerf, they are able to actually increase his damage and buff him in more meaningful ways.
: > [{quoted}](name=Toþykachu,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Me1sLuOX,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-02T23:59:58.597+0000) > > A trait of all battle mages is their good zoning ability, of which most have better control of due to their much later higher game damage. Cassiopeia has her ult and W to zone people, Anivia has her wall and her ult, Karthus has his E and W and Vlad has the ability to just run at you and instagib your squishies if you get too close. Aurelion has one of the absolute lowest damage outputs late game out of all the mages in the game and by the time you reach late game, if the enemies are in range of your stars, then you are also in range of their abilities and in most cases they will out DPS you. His W not being interuptable also means you are able to ban champions that aren't Kassadin. > > I don't see how his roaming power is worse? He can use his W from much further away, in exchange for it being a slightly longer cooldown. His ability to side lane has been massively improved as he can now reach a fight much more quickly mid-late game due to the overall range increase and massive MS increase he'll be getting 600 at all ranks to 800 by rank 5. > > In the long run, this change is supposed smooth out some of his power, so they can meaningfully buff him without making him completely overbearing when played by a proficient Aurelion Sol player, like he has been previously. If these changes end up nerfing him overall, then I have no doubt that they'll buff him in future patches. Though saying "Aurelion Sol having the absolute lowest damage output in the game" is a bit of an exaggeration, that's fine. The reason he's still good because of how efficient he is when it comes to constantly being able to damage multiple enemies at once, especially when you pull off good positioning. No other battle mage can pull off consistent aoe teamfighting against up to five people AT ONCE like Aurelion Sol can. Why should he be able to do heavy impact damage when such a champion is able to manipulate a teamfight so well, with a BASE ability. High-reaching numbers don't solely measure the worth of the champion, it's what they provide. That's why I'm stressing so much that these changes will remove that kind of power, power that's rewarded for practicing a lot. Even when knowing that, there is counterplay if you can get the best of him by gap-closing him or ccing him, it's a healthy factor of Aurelion. As with roaming, it is nerfed heavily. You honestly can't wave-clear as fast due to your w having a big cooldown with limited uptime. With the old (E), it also factors in the ability to get to your lane fast and then clearing the wave, then moving on to another lane, with you using your e or not. The movement speed boost you get is the key to roaming, and with that gone, it's a severe unnecessary impact.
I said he has **one of** the lowest damage outputs, **late game**, out of all **mages**. Not in general. You are severely underestimating the presence of other battle mages in the game. Karthus, Swain, Anivia etc. can all pull off constant AoE damage late game, with Anivia and Karthus doing a LOT more damage than Aurelion can ever wish to dish out late game. Vlad, Cass and Ryze have the ability to 1v5 late game a LOT easier than Aurelion Sol, as A Sol is prone to getting instantly turned on and killed if he's seen to be alone. From the videos I've seen so far, his early pushing power is still very strong and doesn't burn through your mana in the same wasy as current Aurelion Sol. He doesn't necessarily need this movement speed now, if he has the ability to use his E from much further away? It just means he is punished more for a bad roam, which is seems only fair in the long run, as this has been a problem with balancing Aurelion for a while now. As mentioned previously, these changes are not supposed to be a nerf, but an adjustment to his kit to allow him to fit more comfortably in the game, meaning they don't have to keep nerfing him, because his win rate reaches absurd levels when put behind someone who knows what they're doing. (A winrate that stems almost entirely from his roaming potential).
: I've never played him in ranked, but I think that a lot of champions core identities are being butchered. Aatrox losing his revive passive and Asol's ability to fast push a wave and roam. Are either being removed entirely or are being shifted over to other champions (twisted fate) in this case. I'm sorry that this happened to your favorite champion <3
Have you ever considered that maybe these abilities are toxic and should be removed to free up space within the champions pool for more meaningful buffs? Aurelion Sol could literally out push every single champion at level 1 and roam from level 3. You could not play aggressively in a side lane, nor could you invade the enemy jungler because Aurelion Sol would always arrive before anyone else. He's had significant power removed from the rest of his kit for a while now, such as a weaker slow on his ultimate, lower damage and weaker base stats. Do you really believe a champion should be completely terrible in every metric so long as they're able to cling onto their one toxic niche that forces them to be this way? By all means you can keep Aatrox's revive, but say goodbye to a lot of his damage, sustain and durability.
: > [{quoted}](name=Shawkeekee,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Me1sLuOX,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-08-03T05:56:26.187+0000) > > I've never played him in ranked, but I think that a lot of champions core identities are being butchered. Aatrox losing his revive passive and Asol's ability to fast push a wave and roam. Are either being removed entirely or are being shifted over to other champions (twisted fate) in this case. I'm sorry that this happened to your favorite champion <3 Glad you're not on the change Asol hype train :), not giving up until Riot hears our plea. Not the plea from those people who think they are right even though they don't play him enough, but from the ones who's dedicated a shit ton of time into him.
> [{quoted}](name=TheMojoKiller,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Me1sLuOX,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-08-03T06:23:14.235+0000) > > Glad not you're not on the change Asol hype train :), not giving up until Riot hears our plea. Not the plea from those people who think they are right even though they don't play him enough, but from the ones who's dedicated a shit ton of time into him. Might I ask what constitutes 'not enough' because I've dedicated over 1,000 ranked games to Aurelion Sol. Is that not enough?
Moody P (NA)
: Why are modern DPS picks so bursty?
This is a worrying trend I've been noticing as well. As a support main Sivir and Xayah have been kind of problematic for me in the bot lane. Xayah absolutely chunks you if she pulls in a good number of feathers and Sivir hitting both procs of her Q is an absolute nuke. What's the point of Lucian, Miss Fortune etc. if these supposedly late game, scaling carries are also doing their jobs of high early game damage champions.
: you get one extra hit with new w then a 2 sec cd with lower base dmg and scaling, and you trying to say the dmg goes up?
> [{quoted}](name=MjölnirUnleashed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Me1sLuOX,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-08-02T23:40:23.614+0000) > > you get one extra hit with new w then a 2 sec cd with lower base dmg and scaling, and you trying to say the dmg goes up? From the videos I've seen of it, it appears to be a lot more than one extra hit.
: > [{quoted}](name=Toþykachu,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Me1sLuOX,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-08-02T22:49:40.662+0000) > > Aurelion's late game at the moment is nothing special. He lacks any sort of innate tankiness or sustain compared to other battle mages, Cass and Vlad have their healing, Rumble and (old) Ryze had constant shields and Karthus doesn't mind dying at all. His damage is also considerably lower than all of them late game, so acting like he's always been some kind of late game hyper carry really isn't true. > > His W late game will only be on a 2 second cooldown and given the massively increased speed of the stars, his overall damage will be WAY up, even late game. As mentioned previously, the ability to no longer have your W interupted is absolutely huge, given the large presence of CC and interupts in the current meta. He also gains a lower cooldown on his Q mid-late game, as well as it giving him more movement speed when he travels behind it, increasing the chance for a stronger stun. > > There'll definitely be a new learning curve that you'll have to commit yourself to if you want to become a god at this champion again, but I firmly believe that these, overall, are a net positive. I never said anything about him being a late hyper carry at all, but he does well when played correctly when it comes to fighting with your team late game in a 5v5. Something that Aurelion Sol can do quite exceptionally well when comparing those champions to him is the ability to manipulate the battle-field when it comes to zoning people with your stars, and do enough damage to kill or pressure the enemies. Going the AP Bruiser route gave you the damage to kill squishes or tanks because the hp shred to tanks, and magic pen w/ cc for squishes. Of course making it so that stars aren't disabled is pretty damn good, but it's the reason why committed Aurelion Sol players can pull it off regardless. The positioning to dodge the cc, kite around their cc, and damage them and zone at the same time, (especially when you have rylais) is under-appreciated. And it's also worth mentioning that if those changes go through, Aurelion Sol won't have that strong roaming potential that has live. That's also one thing he's good at that not most champs are. This isn't a buff to Aurelion Sol, it's a change of playstyle to make him easier for other players, but also nerfing the capabilities of how you can impact a game. With the time I've been playing Aurelion Sol, and few days I've been consistenly testing out the Aurelion Sol changes, I strongly believe that it isn't a net positive with most of these changes.
A trait of all battle mages is their good zoning ability, of which most have better control of due to their much later higher game damage. Cassiopeia has her ult and W to zone people, Anivia has her wall and her ult, Karthus has his E and W and Vlad has the ability to just run at you and instagib your squishies if you get too close. Aurelion has one of the absolute lowest damage outputs late game out of all the mages in the game and by the time you reach late game, if the enemies are in range of your stars, then you are also in range of their abilities and in most cases they will out DPS you. His W not being interuptable also means you are able to ban champions that aren't Kassadin. I don't see how his roaming power is worse? He can use his W from much further away, in exchange for it being a slightly longer cooldown. His ability to side lane has been massively improved as he can now reach a fight much more quickly mid-late game due to the overall range increase and massive MS increase he'll be getting 600 at all ranks to 800 by rank 5. In the long run, this change is supposed smooth out some of his power, so they can meaningfully buff him without making him completely overbearing when played by a proficient Aurelion Sol player, like he has been previously. If these changes end up nerfing him overall, then I have no doubt that they'll buff him in future patches.
: > [{quoted}](name=Toþykachu,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Me1sLuOX,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-08-02T21:37:03.180+0000) > > A Sol is not technically a God. Riot confirmed this. This new playstyle gives you several notable advantages that you don't quite realise. Firstly, CC does not cancel the W anymore, giving you a LOT more opportunities to succeed. The damage you deal from landing every star when you activate your W is far higher than the current damage and only has a 2 second cooldown, meaning late game, your damage is WAY up. The bonus movement speed on W after it retracts now means you can afford to go other rune choices instead of phase rush every game. As previously mentioned, because of the changes, his early and mid-game is strong. And because his passive damage was increased early, as well as his W speed, he's going to do a lot more damage, I acknowledge that. When it comes to late game against a decent comp, it's not going to be that "easy" to pick someone out when they know all they have to do is avoid your set-up, your q. And if the enemy-team is not fed, but scaled enough, it's not going to be easy to one-shot someone without comitting and risking your life. Keep in mind, your passive ap scaling is weaker late game. If you can't finish them with one combo, you have to either leave or commit, hence the life of a burst-mage, which we have plenty of. Having the ability to zone, do good consistent damage rewarded with positioning, and being able to roam effectively with enough practice feels very rewarding. Having that thrown away to just turn him into another burst-mage (by which some could argue other burst-champs could do better) doesn't feel fun or great or healthy.
Aurelion's late game at the moment is nothing special. He lacks any sort of innate tankiness or sustain compared to other battle mages, Cass and Vlad have their healing, Rumble and (old) Ryze had constant shields and Karthus doesn't mind dying at all. His damage is also considerably lower than all of them late game, so acting like he's always been some kind of late game hyper carry really isn't true. His W late game will only be on a 2 second cooldown and given the massively increased speed of the stars, his overall damage will be WAY up, even late game. As mentioned previously, the ability to no longer have your W interupted is absolutely huge, given the large presence of CC and interupts in the current meta. He also gains a lower cooldown on his Q mid-late game, as well as it giving him more movement speed when he travels behind it, increasing the chance for a stronger stun. There'll definitely be a new learning curve that you'll have to commit yourself to if you want to become a god at this champion again, but I firmly believe that these, overall, are a net positive.
: Aurelion Sol's Future... ~~Please Read~~
A Sol is not technically a God. Riot confirmed this. This new playstyle gives you several notable advantages that you don't quite realise. Firstly, CC does not cancel the W anymore, giving you a LOT more opportunities to succeed. The damage you deal from landing every star when you activate your W is far higher than the current damage and only has a 2 second cooldown, meaning late game, your damage is WAY up. The bonus movement speed on W after it retracts now means you can afford to go other rune choices instead of phase rush every game.
Moody P (NA)
: Itold you, braum and yuumi
Oh, sorry. Braum and Yuumi really aren't difficult though? Being weak in solo queue does not necessarily equate to being difficult to play. What part of their kits are particularly challenging? Braum sits in front of an ADC with shield and Yuumi attatches to the most fed member and heals them.
Moody P (NA)
: Volibear is my third highest juggernaut behind Darius and Illaoi braum is balanced specifically around professional players who use his kit correctly so I would probably say he is harder to use well than bard is. Yuumi, too, if her win curve is anything to to by. bard probably comes off as difficult because he's really only half support; the other half is assassin because riot doesn't stop buffing his damage which has made me play him far less than I used to (alongside this horrible taric rework of course). also that while his kit is easy to use its also very easy to fuck up if you/your teammates don't know how to play around R. the biggest bard fails I see and experience all revolve around a terrible ult use
Higher damage would make him easier right? He doesn't have to land as many abilities to dish out damage. Who would you consider a difficult support though?
Moody P (NA)
: I have 300k on him, he's tied with Illaoi for highest MP champ is only hard if you're a support main and you're not used to actually having to use your hands
*Gasp* You mean to tell me after all this time you're not a Volibear main?! This is outrageous! Just for comparison, which supports do you think are more difficult than him?
: > [{quoted}](name=Toþykachu,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Y4Qxncxr,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-08-01T18:16:15.150+0000) > > URF is too popular whilst the others aren't popular enough I believe. It's kinda sad, because I think Nexus Blitz could be as popular as ARAM if they gave it a chance. They introduced the pass the second time around that required you to play 10 games a day to be worthwhile, which caused major burn out for a game that was supposed to prioritise fun over hardcore grinding. They then acted surprised when numbers started to drop as more and more people completed the missions. Spot on. They just gave up on it way too quickly. It honestly pissed me off for a while but c'est la vie. It's a shame they were so ready to shove little legends on us that TFT got rammed through, but they didn't' seem to care about trying to make NB work. I honestly hope they never do what they did to us via Nexus Blitz again. Don't introduce a fun causal mode, say it's goal is to be permanent, then yank it away from us and hide it behind a yearly event after not even trying to make it work. That is such an awful tease, at this point i wish I never knew about or played NB or they never said it's goal was to be permanent, because now it sucks having played it and knowing how fun it is. There is literally no real reason URF or NB couldn't be permanent, NB on any day of testing was way more popular than TT. But if they really wanna run with the no one would play NB and not try to make it it work, fine, you know ppl love URF/ARURF - put that in then!
I agree, I'd much rather never have been teased with Nexus Blitz because I enjoyed it so much. I believe the only reason ARAM is allowed to stay is because the majority of the people who play ARAM only play ARAM, meaning they'd quit the game all together if it was removed, whilst most of the people who play Twisted Treeline, would simply switch to Summoner's Rift. URF is too popular and took people away from Summoner's Rift and TFT has little legends to make big bucks from. I am honestly surprised as to why Nexus Blitz isn't being made permanent though. You don't need to give it too many balance changes, as the game was mostly just supposed to be fun, not competitively balanced or anything. I really do think they pushed the pass too hard causing people to get burnt out from the game mdoe.
: True, she is an intelligence check on low elo ADCS, most fail...but she feeds a lot in low elo too.....and with a dive....ouch..... I still think Sona is the worst though.....no one in low elo knows how to get ahead with her and is just free kills....
Sona's attributes have changed a LOT in recent years. Whilst she was originally the laning queen, with some of the most potent poke and sustain of all supports, she has since shiften to a relatively low damage, late game powerhouse. She is fodder to just about every aggressive support and dies almost instantly if caught out, even before people get items. The second people stop playing her like they did several seasons ago and start playing her like you just need to get to mid-late game without feeding too much, is the second she becomes a lot stronger.
Auve (NA)
: In Defense of the Treeline
Many years ago I fell into a depression. I won't go into much detail, because who needs to hear about one guy on the internet wanting to give up on life? In the Summer of 2016 I felt like I had very little to live for. Things I'd previously enjoyed doing evoked no emotion in me, such as playing League of Legends, and getting out of bed every day felt like climbing a mountain with no equipment to do so. Basic activities, such as eating and showering, felt like a monotonous chores and my stomach churned at the thought of having to do any of them. I'd given up on my job, lost my partner and had quite literally given up on life. As the days, weeks and months passed we reached Christmas time and I'd gradually been feeling better in myself, thanks to the support from my family, therapists and medication, so for the first time in months I switched on my PC and logged into League of Legends. Snow Day Bard had just been released and despite never playing this champion before, I felt inclined to become a Bard main just because I fell in love with the skin so much. The fluffy winter coat, the hot cocoa, the penguins, everything just made him look like the most huggable creature in the world, and who doesn't love a good hug. I went into summoner's rift and despite playing a new champion, who had a surprisingly fun kit, I was not enjoying myself at all. Games felt needlessly long, people were flaming each other for pointless, arbitrary reasons and overall I ended each game feeling worse off than I did before. I was ready to give up on League for good. Enter Twisted Treeline. I was only a novice back then and so I was matched with other new players to the game mode and as such, got to play devoid of any overpowered champions or funnel metas and so I got to experience 3v3's in all of its glorious potential. Games were a lot shorter and so games where we were losing didn't feel like such a long, unnecessary slogfest, whilst the games I was winning gave me the same buzzing high that I got from winning games on Summoner's Rift. With fewer players I felt like my actions within a game had more impact. People complaining about bad team mates in Summoner's Rift may really benefit from the fact Twisten Treeline features fewer players, and doing well and carrying on your own is much more plausible here. In the long run, Twisted Treeline was the necessary step to reignite my love for League that got me back into playing ranked 5v5's. Without this I fear I never would have logged back into League, following my unfortunate re entry into the game. I didn't abandon Twisted Treeline entirely after that. I decided to play ranked 3v3's and oh boy was this a mistake. The lack of attention from Riot became obvious from the first game, as I banned Yasuo and learnt that Twisted Treeline has a strict meta and by banning something that wasn't completely OP, like Olaf, Master Yi and the recently reworked Taric. I was then introduced to the funnel strategy and the game was completely absent of fun for me. Thinking this was just a one-off cheese strategy I queued up again and faced the exact same strategy, just with a couple of different champions. I came to learn in the following few games that this was completely common place and unless bans extensively to stop it, it was the dominant strategy. It truly saddens me that Riot hasn't even attempted to breath life into the game mode and instead would kill it outright than even give it a chance.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 2
Do you think you should disable Irelia, Yuumi and Akali and give them some more serious work? It seems like you're giving yourself an impossible task with trying to balance these 3 specifically across all levels of play. Yuumi in particular is sat at a rather awful win rate in solo queue and is still pick/ban in pro play.
Sirsir (NA)
: Bard is just the weirdest champ riot ever made... Situationally strong, you have to main him to see half the situations, and relies on his weirdness for no one else to know how to play against him. The worst in bad hands and the best in good hands. He's the riven of the support role.
This basically it. His Q is kinda wonky to land, but has such as low cooldown late game, whilst also having a pretty high missile speed, so it's not the most punishing ability to miss, whereas Thresh and Blitz are basically useless if they miss their Q's. Bard can do pretty well into almost every champion in the game, it just comes down to learning how to play against each of them, as some matchups require you to play completely differently to others.
Εlin (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=preternatural,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1cGLEwpE,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-08-02T15:23:22.543+0000) > > ok guys, i'ma have to spoil the fun. > there are no weak supports. > shocker? right? > really there are none. try soraka in low elo completely useless
> [{quoted}](name=Linda de Mol,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1cGLEwpE,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2019-08-02T15:23:59.519+0000) > > try soraka in low elo > completely useless Soraka shines in low elo. She struggles in high elo where the enemy ADC comes back to lane after the first base with Executioner's Calling and her one good attribute is shot in the foot until super late game.
: Those are bard mains. You play him in game for about 200 games. Expect to lose all of them. Till 200 are over.
> [{quoted}](name=Support Position,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1cGLEwpE,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-08-02T11:19:47.304+0000) > > Those are bard mains. You play him in game for about 200 games. Expect to lose all of them. Till 200 are over. Whilst he is mostly unpopular, it's still a very high win rate, even if we assume every single person playing him is a Bard main. The fact that getting good at Bard would theoretically net you a similar win rate is enough to show that Bard is not as weak as people are claiming.
: As a long time support main, if we are talking about diamond to master elos, I would say : {{champion:40}} {{champion:201}} {{champion:267}} would be the weakest at the moment {{champion:432}} {{champion:37}} {{champion:143}} {{champion:43}} not in a good spot either if you want to clim through low elos, consider {{champion:161}} {{champion:143}} {{champion:25}} If you are in high elo and want to stay stable : {{champion:350}} {{champion:555}} {{champion:26}} {{champion:16}} {{champion:497}} {{champion:111}} are your go to But hey, just my opinion ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> [{quoted}](name=Carach Angren,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1cGLEwpE,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-08-02T13:39:35.041+0000) > > As a long time support main, if we are talking about diamond to master elos, I would say : > > {{champion:40}} {{champion:201}} {{champion:267}} would be the weakest at the moment > > {{champion:432}} {{champion:37}} {{champion:143}} {{champion:43}} not in a good spot either > > if you want to clim through low elos, consider {{champion:161}} {{champion:143}} {{champion:25}} > > If you are in high elo and want to stay stable : {{champion:350}} {{champion:555}} {{champion:26}} {{champion:16}} {{champion:497}} {{champion:111}} are your go to > > But hey, just my opinion ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Bard has a 52% win rate in diamond and a 51% win rate across all elos. Let's stop with the stigma that Bard is as weak as he was on release.
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Toþykachu

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