: Why do bads always use "he was picked by a pro player one time to fill some niche one game, therefore he is a strong champion" as some kind of valid argument to prove a champion is strong.
You called him pathetic and weak what response do you expect? I could talk about in details why he isn't weak but not like you gave a point.
: It's being looked at for season 10.
Well that's been adding doran's shield 10 extra health regen so far.
: As a Nocturne top OTP, the only top laners that can bully me are... Urgot, Mordekaiser, and the occasional Fiora if she gets a significant enough lead on me. In theory, Olaf would stomp me. But i havent seen an Olaf top once this entire season lol
You got me there, well nocturne isn't the usual toplane champion, but I am honestly not so sure that you beat the above 3. Below plat for sure but above I don't think so.
: {{champion:85}} weak and pathetic champion. Not sure how you can put him in your list. Must be a troll post.
I forgot to add this is a platinum+ problem, below that it isn't really a problem. He isn't weak he was picked at worlds.
Jamaree (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Warmas,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TEPByqsc,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-11-08T11:26:55.312+0000) > > It has been quiet a while that {{champion:133}} {{champion:85}} {{champion:150}} have been terrorizing toplane and I don't think that I am alone with hashinshin on this. Terrorizing melees. >I feel like they are not getting adressed beause they are low winrate Why would they need to be addressed then? >For the counterplay you need a team which you usually won't have in soloque which is THE GAME practically, and even then are unstopable, this year's worlds is the greatest example of that. Or playing another ranged champion against them. >The counterplay from the toplaners side is sitting under turret waiting for lvl6, lvl11, not very healthy is it? Even though they are consantly low pickrate even when they are stupid broken because almost nobody wants to play them because toplaners are usually bruiser players (yes I sound like hashinshin but he is right about a lot of things). Wouldn't their win rates be higher if they were stupidly broken. Their strength comes from picking brusiers into them, their kits counter that, people need to realize that certain champions lose to certain champions and if people were more willing to expand their roster then ONLY play one section of champions, they would be less of a problem. > It is hard to fix these champions because their whole kit involves around bullying the lane with 0 consequences (which I don't know how was even a good idea) Why is it ok for certain melees to do that against other melees then? Darius doesn't let other melees play, Aatrox doesn't let other melees play, Jax doesn't let other melees play, Garen doesn't let other melees play. People don't seem to understand that balance ISN'T your champion going even in every match up, that is literally impossible. Because there are different kits and functions that is a pipe dream. Balance in games with massive and varying rosters is having champions or characters doing STUPIDLY well in certain matches, and shit in other match ups. Let's use fighting games as an example, Zangief can't touch Dhalsim literally, but then you put him against an R Mika or Abagail, shit is free, that is the give and take. People think that nerfing these champions will make top lane more diverse when in actuality, all it will do is stop other melees from being played as only the top melee bullies get played.
I get your point but thats not what i mean. With a melee if you are against a ranged you can't even farm the lane while you are not under turret, you can't fight them either because of the said reasons, you can still fight a Caitlyn or Draven any time at bot with the support. The game isn't fun and I know it's a high-elo only problem, but when you have 3 games in a row with these matchups, you are gonna be frustrated. Winrate doesn't equal fun. If Aatrox, Darius, Jax don't let other melees play but they can be against each other so thats a paradox. I know I am not supposed to win every matchup, but you can win against any of the stated 3 melees if you know how the matchup works and outplay them, while against the 3 ranged you just cannot, my very problem is the lack of outplay. Also the problem that you are mentoning is the counter circle (this counters-that, that counters-the thrid, the thrid counters this), whereas with these 3 ranged they counter EVERY melee there is no circle. And note that I didn't talk about teemo or vlad or akali because their ARE melees that can beat them, yes they are frustrating sometimes too but as much. Also I don't think ADCs want to play melee champs, their very role is not about that in my opinion. I don't think they are happy about Garen bot and the next day after it was picked at LEC it started being adressed, so it's fine that toplaners have to play ranged champs, but it isn't fine ADCs have to play melees.
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: 1) Fuck no. This is a godawful idea. You need proof? Look at ***any fucking game with built-in voice chat with randos***. It's fucking insufferable. I'd rather listen to my cat try to cough up a hairball for 3 hours than deal with that shit. 2) This will do literally nothing against Lucian. Also...No. The only real weakness of the juggernaut class is being kited - adding in something that completely negates that weakness means they have **zero actual counterplay**. 3) Ironic, considering Nasus used to use Stormraider's, which was reworked into Phase Rush. And Kennen basically never runs the damn rune in the first place. The rune isn't really a problem at all. 4) I'm down for a more general MR item. But...juggernauts have fucktons of defense and hitpoints. Veigar literally is not a threat to you come mid-game. 5) True damage isn't a problem, and...really? Vel? He's barely even picked. He has about a 5% pickrate between mid and support, and barely any pickrate elsewhere. Also...basically all of the champions you listed will wipe Vayne's ass with her head. And Nasus versus Yi in lane is a winning matchup lmfao. Dude has a 42.47% winrate against Nasus in toplane. And Fiora...Another champion who dies a *lot* to juggernauts because they tend to murder her squishy ass. 6) Krugs? Gromp? You have the same number of options bot and mid have. 7) You forget that their ***BUILDS*** add a shitton more HP and resistances, while they tend to have innate durability that the others you listed don't. I've looked *fairly* hard at LB's kit, and I have yet to see "Create an AoE immunity to autos" anywhere in it. 8) This is actually horrible for toplaners tho. Making the lane longer just means you can get zoned for more time and die more to jungle. 9) Grasp is also a bruiser keystone. And, you know, **conqueror was literally designed for bruisers**. Darius works just fine with it, so I have no idea why you think he can't (there's a reason it has a 81.5% pickrate on him), and Nasus uses either Grasp or Spellbook. Again...Darius stacks it just fine. He has literally no problem using Conqueror. Nasus can use it too - 27% pickrate with an average winrate.
1) I don't know if you ever played high elo CSGO or jsut go watch high elo players play CSGO, i have heard flaming maybe ones, mute is still an option anyways. 2) It doesn't help against lucian he showed it at worlds that he and quin are broken enough on top, im not gonna adress the ovbious that they need immediate nerfs to their kits. 5-10% tenacity doesn't even get close to removing the counterplay, tenacity is scaling worse above 50% and can't reduce below 0.5 secs so you either don't know what you are talking about or just delusional, of course cc shouldnt hit a morde as hard with 0 mobility like an akali who has 3 escapes + a stealth, movspeed buff and we are still talking about 5-10% only. 3) I have to be taking your rank into consideration. At low elo nobody picks phaserush, nobody kites. The higher you go the more frequent it gets, and it only get used by the champs that completely exploit it, go ask any high elo, any streamer toplaner what they think about kennen or vlad with phase rush. 4) Veigar is a threat if he is fed, and it's soloque so he will be fed, you just need an option to deal with him while you are being fed as well, but anyways he was just an example that you have no MR item against him that works well for example for sion. 5) I don't know in which universe do those champ beat a vayne that plays just a little properly. I am not talking about master yi lane but jungle where if he gets ahead on other lanes you can't play the game because he removes slow and kills you with truedmg in 3 seconds. Fiora can be beaten by juggernauts that I agree on but the %hp true dmg is still unhealthy, creates only balance issues and shouldn't be encouraged. 6) At low elo toplane is probably better at transitioning a winlane into wingame, but there people also less likely to take jungle camps than on high elo. Bot and mid have drake, and herald cooldowns are going down but i feel that it is not going to be enough. It doesn't have to symmetrical, it isn't already because of fortification, so you can't even takes plates before 5. 7) Yes that's true but the mage builds add a shitton of dmg, I've looked at nasus's kit and I have to yet see "Burst an ADC immediately, and jump 1200 range". **Items** are balanced against **Items** and not champion base stats. Mage abilities have more base dmg, and they are ranged (which also opens up kiting) so they have to pay for those **base stats** with **base stats**, if your root lets you kite a melee for 1 more second that equals 1 second invulnerability against that melee. 8) That I agree on that it is a bit far-fetched, but generally melees need longer trades to win, that's why they are not usually picked at mid but top. It's hard to pinpoint what would happen exactly but that's what preseasons are for. 9) I looked at the champ pool and realised, that grasp technically is a bruiser keystone, the point there would be that mages and adcs have to many keystones relatively, I made it a toplnae thread so you know.
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Warmas

Level 153 (EUW)
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